>>16528327
Historic squabbling over the succession.
Shias have tons of weird beliefs
Both Sunni and Shia empires using sectarianism as tools.
Shia Iran wrecking havok in the name of Shiism (and using anti-Zionism and unity to trick the gullible)

>>16528327
persians are the only active shia people
They do not care what subhumans 20 IQ points lower than them think

>>16528333
But I thought Sunnis also hate Israel

>>16528327
Shias make videos cursing the companions of muhammad and praising Ali. I guess it isn't noticable since that's a feature of their religion?

>>16528327
Wtf is anal mutta
Is he accusing Shias of eating ass

>>16528350
True but that doesnt mean they have to support Iran's Shia expansionism.
>>16528348
Iranian Shia have high secularization rates (the Pahlavis kicked it off but the Shia regime has sped up secularization) Iraqi Shia are religious but there is growing secularism amongst them as a backlash to Shia/Sunni Islamism.

>>16528348
What about the houthis and hezbollah

>>16528397
it's a backlash to being associated with inbred pedophiles who razed their country to the ground
and raped everything that moved

>>16528350
Sunnis wanted to kill the shia as well

>>16528327
It's amazing how the Western mind is these days incapable of grasping that theology and politics is so deeply intertwined, due to their autistic obsession of separating the state and the church.

There are many reasons throughout history of Sunni Shia divide, but the current one is the political conflict between the Saudi and Iran, vying for regional hegemony. Saudi is using their oil money, as well as US lip service, to fuel hate of Iran, politically as well as theologically through the Wahabbi/Salafi movement. Iran is doing the same through their various proxies.

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Shias don't need to make videos, we can see their clear kufr from their biggest texts. They know that the Sunnis have utilized the internet and the information at their disposal to educate themselves on the reality of the shia and expose all their strange and kufri beliefs to a wider audience (this wasn't available at the time of Khomeini's revolution in the 70s, for example) so they remain silent and don't make a spectacle of themsleves so that Sunnis will believe "not all of them are that extreme i have never heard a Shia cursing the Sahabas", yet this stuff is written in their books of aqeeda that they teach in their seminars. So how can someone who seeks to defend the Shia claim it is rare and doesn't happen when they have never erased it from their biggest books?

>>16528608
You can’t just post words like kufr and sabahas but not explain what they mean
Most people seem to agree that Shias are more civilized

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Are sufis shia or sunni

>>16528702
No way Iran is more civilized than any of the Gulf Arab oil states.

>>16528608
Go home Daniel

>>16529544
sunnis who lifted shia concepts. In the medieval era it was a common disguise for shia who wanted to be hidden

>>16529551
Didn’t Daniel’s wife and sister get exposed for not wearing hijabs and going to university

>>16528348
>persians are the only active shia people
yemeni zaedi?

>>16528608
Daniel doesn't believe this, he's spent the past couple weeks running PR for Iran

>>16530546
I know. That's why i posted his picture. Daniel is an ardent defender of Twelver Shi'ites and wants to protect them from Sunnis knowing the truth about them (there are a few reasons he is doing this, which are both politically and personally motivated) but unfortunately for him we are in a new era now where even the most ignorant layman has information (internet access, translated books, pamphlets with sources, etc) at his disposal to look these things up and read about them for himself - so now longer can this can be passed off as merely "Wahhabi propaganda", as Daniel would have us believe.

>>16528412
Houthis are Zaydis remenants of Muslim theology that gave credence to believing in your rationale and logic over blindness faith .

>>16530811
>but unfortunately for him we are in a new era now where even the most ignorant layman has information (internet access, translated books, pamphlets with sources, etc) at his disposal to look these things up and read about them for himself
You sound like one of those internet atheists "discovering" the truth about Christianity, Islam, and religion in general. It guess it's true that wahhabis/salafis are just crypto-atheists

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>>16530821
>rationale and logic
Just one problem, at some level of reality those words no longer apply, and that is where the Spirit comes from, hence "dont define it too much" because its super easy to cross one of those invisible lines.

t Defined to sub-Planck scale, highly dont recommend a Jihad to the center of the universe hunting down Satan in the hyper-reality few ever knew, it tends to keep the souls its brought....

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>>16530855
Interesting. So all these people were wahhabis and crypto-atheists then? I'm sure we should throw out the prevailing view of the scholars and accept Daniel's instead, right?

>>16528327
Because Shia's are more developed than them. It's like Catholics vs Protestants. Protestant nations mog Catholic nation by almost every metric. Inbred Muslims are Sunnis, less inbred Muslims are Shia.

>>16530973
You know Shias introduced suicide bombings and child soldiers as cannon fodder during the Iran-Iraq war? You know Shia have fatawa permitting sex with animals and babies? Wow! how developed indeed!

>>16531150
We know that all Muslims are quite backwards, even Shia.

one thing i never understood is that drawing images of prophets and companions etc is haram in islam (hence chrlie hebdo, cartoon protests etc) yet shia do this all the time, they make image of Ali and they depict muslim figures in paintings and have them on banners and this is allowed? why nobody called the shia kaffir for doing this?

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>>16528327
If you look at the history neutrally and objectively, Ali was supposed to be the successor of the Prophet. Sunnis have come up with many "interesting" rules of historical interpretation in order to justify what actually happened after the Prophet's death. Their interpretations are flimsy and vulnerable, and this creates a subconscious insecurity leading them to lash out at anyone who speaks the truth.

Let me give you an example. When Ali became Caliph, a man called Muawiya rebelled against him. Tens of thousands of muslims were killed. There's consensus among shias and sunnis that Muawiya was in the wrong and Ali right. Even in the Sunni books the Prophet predicted this rebellion and told everyone that Muawiyas army are the rebellious, aggressive ones, that his army would be calling people to Hell, etc. The language is this harsh even in the Sunni's own books. But Sunnis love Muawiya, and because they have to justify what happened, Sunnis say that both Muawiya and Ali were on the truth, and all that the Prophet meant by this is that Ali is closer to the truth. Does this seem plausible?

>>16528608
I wish Sunnis read what their own books have to say about some of the Sahaba

>>16528327
Because Islam is about dominating people who don't share your exact beliefs and very specific wording. When there is a schism, it self destructs. Unlike Christianity, which says, "love your enemies." With Christianity, schism manifests love. With Islam, schism manifest two groups that agree on almost everything, except who is the subserviant infidel that should be raped and taxed.

>>16528558
>autistic obsession of separating the state and the church
True religion thrives in a state of anarchy. Only infidels need to use weapons in order to enforce their false teachings on others.

>>16529547
They still drink camel piss
They’re only rich because of oil
They only have cities because of slave labor

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>>16528393
I think it’s a type of prostitution

>>16533082
chinks build shit for nogs
whites on contract build shit for inbred pedophiles

>>16533872
who is this girl

>>16528393
Nikah Mut'ah in Shia Islam is a temporary marriage performed for the purpose of casual sex
From "anal mutta" I presume the man in OP is either calling Shi'ites buttfuckers or sodomites

>>16534104
What?

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>>16534383
>who
You're pathetic.

>>16528412
>What about the houthis and
Hanafi-lite
>hezbollah
Minority

>>16535890
What’s a Hanafi

>>16534383
Idk I found it on /int/

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>>16534434
Kek
I heard persian girls do anal before marriage
I guess this explains why

I still don't get why they think it's true that an angel spoke to some guy in a cave 1500 years ago

>>16531150
Those are all lies.
>sex with babies and animals
Only retarded Sunnis and Zio-bots believe this.
>>16528348
You are forgetting Azerbaijanis who are allies of Israel and working to destabilize Iran.

>>16532239
>Unlike Christianity, which says, "love your enemies." With Christianity, schism manifests love
I'm sure the Arians and Albigenesians were shown love.

>>16538382
> I still don't get why they think it's true that believes a thing

>>16538436
>Those are all lies

No, they are not. Khomeini sanctioned suicide bombings and child soldiers in the Iran-Iraq war. You'll find fatawa allowing infant sex and animal sex (under certain conditions) in their books

>You are forgetting Azerbaijanis who are allies of Israel and working to destabilize Iran.

Good. Iran needs regime change. Free Ahwaz and Balochistan, btw.

It's always weird to analyze who's right about something that is already retarded
that being said sunnis does seem to have the better arguments

>>16539607
It sounds really made-up

>>16541306
Is she Iranian

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>>16535656
I'm saying that they aren't involved in the process at all

>>16528333
>Historic squabbling over the succession
As an outsider its clear that Shias have a stronger case about succession. Sunnis cope about this by using ad hominems.

>>16542492
Who are these peoples?

>>16528348
The funny thing is Persians used to be the most hardcore Sunnis before the Safavids and Shias were almost entirely Arabs in Syria and Iraq. The Safavids literally exiled all of their Sunni scholars and brought in Arabs because there were no Shia Iranians.

>>16542876
>The funny thing is Persians used to be the most hardcore Sunnis before the Safavids
This is false and a tired meme at this point. Especially since Sunnis keep flip flopping between shi'ism is an evil majoosi conspiracy to Iran was Sunni until the Safavids. Many shia movements and sects were persian. Northern Iran (caspian provinces), Khorasan, and much of western Iran were majority shia. Cities like Tus, Nishapur, Aveh, Kashan, Qum, Rayy, and Isfahan were majority shia cities. The rural hinterlands of Iran were also the domain of shia and where shia novements sprang up from. Iran also had many shia dynasties and the shia population was always very high even during eras of persecution like the seljuk era.

>>16542876
Sunnis really have no knowledge of history if this is the kind if thing they like telling themselves

>>16541338
The important thing is, you have an opinion on the subject which you can voice. Am I right? Or am I right?

>>16542894
>Iran's population after the Arab conquest and conversion was mostly Sunni of the Shafi'i[7] and Hanafi legal schools until the triumph of the Safavids (who had initially been Shafi'i Sufis themselves).[8] Ironically, this was to the extent that up until the end of the 15th century the Ottoman Empire (the most powerful and prominent Sunni state and future arch-enemy of the Shia Safavids) used to send many of its Ulama (Islamic scholars) to Iran to further their education in Sunni Islam, due to a lack of Madrasahs (Islamic schools) within the Ottoman Empire itself.[9] Persia was also a seat of Sunni learning.[10] The Sunni Iranians had always held the family of Muhammad in high esteem.[11] In contrast, before the Safavid period, a minority of Iranians were Shia and there had been relatively few Shia Ulama in Iran.[
>Since most of the population embraced Sunni Islam and since an educated version of Shiism was scarce in Iran at the time, Ismail imported a new Shia Ulama corps from traditional Shiite centers of the Arabic speaking lands, largely from Jabal Amil (of Southern Lebanon), Mount Lebanon, Syria, Eastern Arabia and Southern Iraq in order to create a state clergy.[42][43][44]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safavid_conversion_of_Iran_to_Shia_Islam#:~:text=Shiism%20did%20not%20become%20fully,of%20Iran%20had%20accepted%20Shiism.

>>16542970
>posts a fucking wikipedia article
not doing yourself favors.
for example this is bullshit
>educated version of Shiism was scarce in Iran at the time
The northern dynasties were literally shi'ite. And the cities I mentioned were shi'ite. There were tons of shi'ites. The fact that you think these guys didn't understand their own religions is retarded. and what exactly does "educated version" mean? The amount of times this narrative has been btfo is insane. I swear you must be the same guy. Your obsession is sad. I'll post it one more time

>>16542970
>>16543088
>But in our times, thanks to the glory of the administration of Nāṣir al-Dīn-allāh Bahāʾ al-Ḥaqq wa’l-Dīn Muḥammad, the servant of the greatest vizier (al-ṣāḥib al-aʿẓam) Muḥammad Ṣāḥib Dīvān, the dissimulation (taqiyya) which was necessary for this notorious community has become forbidden, and the glory of the ahl al-bayt have been extended all over the world. And in the protection of this administration, the sects of the Yazīdiyya and of the Marwāniyya [Umayyads], of the Jabriyya [deniers of the human free will], of the Mujassama [anthropomorphists] and of the Nāṣiba [Sunnis] have become miserable and humiliated
>>As far away as Kollam, the trading port in Kerala, Ibn Battuta, who had described the population of Aveh as rawāfid (Rihlat Ibn Battuta, 196), came across a wealthy and evidently influential merchant, a certain ʿAlāʾ al-Din Āvaji; the Moroccan traveler was struck by the overt display, on the part of the mer-chant and his companions, of their Shiʿi beliefs (huwa rāfidi wa-maʿahu ashāb lahu ʿalā madhhabihi wa-hum yuzhiruna dhālika) (Rihlat Ibn Battuta, 575). Ibn Battuta avers further that in Aveh, as well as in Mashhad-e Husayn, Hilla, Bahrayn, Qumm, Kashan, Saveh and Tus, the visitor who expressed a diver-gent position from that held by the local (Shiʿi) inhabitants risked his life, owing to the extremity of the people’s confessional engagement (he describes them as rāfida ghāliya) (Rihlat Ibn Battuta, 203)
>Yaqut: Shiʿi part of town was the largest because half of the inhabitants of Rayy were Shiʿi, while in the countryside they were all Shiʿi, with a few Hanafi

>>16543094
>>16543088
Right before the Safavids the Sarbadars emerged in Khorasan after killing an ilkhanate governor.
The hurufis were a twelver movement that emerged from Iran was popular despite persecution.
The Twelve Imams were venerated among the populace. Sunnis try to cope with this by stating sunnis can venerate them too but that's bullshit since the twelve imams are exclusive to twelver shi'ism. Around these time tracts written by Sunnis against the twelver imams became common so no this cope is bullshit.
The only arab shia ulama that supported Ismail was Al-Karaki the rest repudiated Ismail and the Safavids until the reign of later Safavid rulers.
The Buyids the last iranian dynasty was shia and twelver shia was created under them so no iranians didn't need anyone to tell them about it.
Seriously that wikipedia article is retarded beyond belief that ignores actual iranian history. The stuff I mentioned calls it into question.
This is just twelvers we have the nizari ismailis. A key moment in the seljuk wars against the ismailis was their targeting of rural people because they were shia and many of them were nizari sympathizers.
Even your medieval sunni scholars like Ibn Taymiyya and Ibn Battuta complained about the shia in Iran. Your cope that shi'ism was nonexistent until Ismail will forever remain a cope.

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>>16542970
One of the most cited sources in your bullshit article

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Iranians were reigning supreme in west asia until the followers of prophet momo came up from the desert and uprooted their entire civilization. You expect people who aren't native to your religion and have been set against your followers for millennia to be totally on board? It's like when people say there are heavy pagan elements in christianity. No shit, the Europeans were pagans, that was their native religion, christianity is a foreign introduction, and it had to be tweaked to the european's liking. Like the Shias to an extent, they did not let that religion totally colonise them, but colonised the religion. Where would Christianity be without europe, if not a west asian mystery cult like Manichaeism, Mithraism, and Mandaeism? The Islamic "golden age" and everything that followed suit afterwards until Genghis Khan raped the place was all due to Persians and people emulating the persians out of respect and admiration, like the Turks. It was also because classical thought and philosophy continued and proliferated in the East while it declined in the west until the renaissance, nearly all of Islamic "philosophy" is just (neo)Platonism, and it reflects in their art and architecture.

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>>16543301
>The Islamic "golden age" and everything that followed suit afterwards until Genghis Khan raped the place was all due to Persians and people emulating the persians out of respect and admiration

Lying dog. Those were all Arabs and the ones that were non-Arab were all Arabized. The Islamic Golden Age was an Arab empire, arab culture, everyone spoke and wrote in Arabic, not your gay Persian.

You even tried to claim Arab architecture for yourselves. Why are you trying to stealing Arab Islamic advancements and achievements when you hate Islam? Did your effaminate looking Zoroaster leave nothing behind to be proud of? This is your amazing and wonderful Persian civilization you keep telling us is so superior to Arab Islam, so why do you need to steal the history of others? You should be able to find all you need in almighty Persian majoosi empire, right? You should have your alphabet, your science, your books all preserved there. Where is it, Cyroosh?

>>16543301
most "pagan"elements of Christianity were there before it reached Europe. others like Easter eggs were just boiled eggs uneaten from Lent and Easter itself is just Passover.
and no Easter does not come from "Ishtar".
aside from the Christmas tree i don't see what you're talking about.
even Christmas is older than that.

Ethiopians are one of the oldest Churches with the oldest Bible and they are not a mystery cult. it's not comapibe with Christ's teachings anyway.
you're supposed to share the gospel out in the open at the expense of even your own life as demonstrated by Christ himself and his chosen apostles.

>>16543929
>comapibe
compatible

sorry i'm typing from my bed with a controller

>>16543301
Mystery cults were selective about who they actually taught the mysteries of their cult (thus the name). Something like Mithraism never stood a chance of taking the place of Christianity because they didn't want to convert the masses, only the worthy.

>>16544173
What exactly is Mithraism
People keep mentioning it when talking about religions of the near east but never explain what it is

>>16542623
In truth I haven't delved much into Islam but some nigga going "Actually muhammad personally named me his successor in a super secret conversation that nobody else can corroborate!" doesn't sound like a strong case.

>>16546716
It wasn’t a super secret conversation it was a sermon in front of his followers while holding Ali’s hand
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-85dXjgMiSU&pp=ygUXa2luZ3MgYW5kIGdlbmVyYWxzIHNoaWE%3D

>>16545477
It was a mystery cult popular among soldiers where they worshiped Mithras. Not much is known since we mostly have engravings to go on, but they appropriated some stuff from Zoroastrianism. Mithra was born from a rock and killed a bull. We do know a bit more about how they operated. They were a selective group who's temples were underground. It's likely they only allowed men in, and there seems to have been seven levels of initiation.

>>16546887
I keep hearing people say Mithraism is the religion Iranians had before Zoroastrianism

>>16528327
it's all wahabis obeying their rulers and spreading anti shia propaganda because iran is their arch enemy.
all sunnis believe shias to be wrong/flawed but you never see asharites or other sunnis spread so much hatred against shias

This thread is still going? lmao. Anyway, all Shias are described as kuffar by Sunnis almost by default yet Andrew Tate can do anything he wants to violate Islam and will be excused. Why has nobody pronounced takfir on Tate or Myron Gaines?

>>16548404
Does Muslims actually believe that Andrew Tate is a real Muslim
Do they know he makes his money from porn and onlyfans

>>16528393
eating ass is Halal, or so muslim bloggers tell me

>>16549132
>Does Muslims actually believe that Andrew Tate is a real Muslim

Yes, he is accepted across the Islamic spectrum as a real Muslim; even Salafis accept him and excuse everything he does, using the reasoning that he is a new Muslim and doesn't know any better. I honestly think it's the most obvious case of someone grifting i've seen in recent times, yet Muslims appear oblivious, reasoning that we don't know what's in his heart and that his conversion is to be judged on what is apparent. Basically as long as Tate continues to say he is a Muslim he is to be accepted as such. He would have to literally come out and denounce Islam publicly or become a Christian on camera or something for Muslims to accept he is not a Muslim.

Sunnis love shirk so much as long as it's a famous convert.

That said, plenty of tribal sunni are sunni in name only. I met so many people in turkey, UAE and Syria who called themselves sunni but borderline worship Ali or do alawite rituals.

>>16549340
What does Ali worship look like?

>>16549402
At least in Syria and turkey, I saw a good half of people I met invoking Ali's name more often than the prophet himself and even Allah sometimes.
Alawites just straight up pray to Ali.

>>16549132
Sunnis have given up on competing for influence in the Middle East with Shias so they’re trying to increase their influence in the west instead.

>>16528350
Maybe the people but not their governments.

>>16549866
That's not true, there are many who wish to engage with Shias. They are the most educated opponents anyway.

>>16549438
So is it just a different was of speaking or do they also preach different things in their mosques
How do they justify/explain praying to Ali

>>16549894
The alawites iirc have an almost trinitarian view where Ali and Muhammed are emanations of allah

>>16549969
Are they crypto christians?
Why do they have two humans in their trinity

>>16548023
Not true at all.

>>16549879
>whip yourself into a bloody frenzy
>educated

let's be honest if that was any other group you'd be calling them low IQ retards who are stuck in a primitive age

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>>16551526
That's what Catholics and Hindus do as well, funny how similar they always are.

>>16550571
Then why do people (specifically Persians/Iranians) keep saying it
I literally visited a Zoroastrian temple and that’s what they told me

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>>16551526
Catholic tier

>>16551650
Don't know, since we don't know a lot about Mithraism.

>>16528327
Shia sectarian militias have genocided Sunnis in Syria and elsewhere literally within the last 5-10 years. They very much hate Sunnis.

Shiism makes more sense than Sunnism, why would anyone who genuinely reveres Muhammad then ignore his explicit command to treat Ali as his successor?

>>16552739
Shia dogs are not real Muslims

You guys are all larping as filthy sandnigger muslim dogs right?

>>16552726
Are you Zoroastrian?

I don't understand how people take Sunnis seriously. Look at what the most hardcore Sunnis, the Salafis, have accomplished lately:
>Qatar
hosts the largest US base in MENA
>Saudi Arabia
an Israeli ally under the table, was going to recognize Israel until Oct. 7 happened
>ISIS and ISIS-K
Attack every opponent of the US they can find, and kill countless others along the way

At what point do you admit your religion is LITERALLY a CIA psyop

>>16555342
Qatar is practically shia

>>16556047
>Qatar is practically shia
retard

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What about the Sunni idolatry stuff? Mecca and Medina have become commercial hubs\ religious supermarkets, there's the Tomb of the Muhammad ( DELET ALL tombs means ALL tombs), the museum of relics such as the hair which is treated as almost a living being, the humongous saudi hotel right next to kaaba. Saudi arabia has (((portraits))) of their rules by the thousands, etc
>Im not even muslim, just talking from a miotic point of view
Also: is isis-k the most extreme of extreme muslims or does anyone "beat it"? Boko Haram sub-groups in Nigeria? Al-Shabaab?

>>16556815
>the humongous saudi hotel right next to kaaba
I don't get why this pisses people off so much. The Kaaba is, objectively speaking from a secular viewpoint, one of the most popular tourist sites on the planet. What's wrong with the hotel?

>>16557019
tourism per se is haram. its vain expenditure of wealth

>>16557513
but hajj obviously isn't haram, and hajj certainly requires wealth to spend

>>16557567
>defending (((hotels)))
nigga let them sleep on tents or guest's houses. its a pilgrimage not an insathot vacation to the beach

>>16557594
Is it true that people get trampled in mecca

>>16557594
Not all Muslims are goat herders

>>16534434
Is this really common among shias?