What happened to the Nahua nobility after they were conquered by the Spanish?
Of Tenochtitlan? Most died in the siege as thye were warriors. The ones that survived were taken by the other Nahua beseiging the city and were sacrificed. If THAT didn't happen, such as if they removed their regalia and pretended to be commoners (something that is attested), if they had a book in their hands when leaving the ruins of the city then the Spanish would take them, torture them on an altar, kill them as a sacrifice to Jesus, and then throw the body to dogs.If you mean in general, lots of them died due to the diseases that were unknowingly introduced by the Spanish. A few cycle overs happened and the remnants took up Christianity and married into Iberian lines to be the administrators of the Spanish regime (tl;dr you have to be born in Iberia to have any power in the Spanish Empire, if you were born in the colonies then you were a second class citizen even if you were 100% Iberian by blood).
>>16533433>Of TenochtitlanI'm also interested in the people from other cities but I appreciate your answer.
>>16533408>>16533443Not a nahua examle, but look at what happened to cities that allied with cortes like Cempoala. They just drop off the face of the earth after the conquest. Their populations disappeared.When you study the traditions that existed in mesoamerica up to contact, and try to trace them afterwards, you really get a feel for how many people were wiped out. It seems like it didn't matter what side you were on, everybody died in the aftermath of the great incursion. The whole mesoamerican tradition went up in flames, and the spaniards strangled the ashes, so that when the populations rebounded the natives were no longer living or even thinking the way they had before.
>>16533408There was a good john chuchiak lecture about what happened to some maya nobility after the conquest, where they try to seek recognition by the spanish crown. I would link it, but mesoanon lurks here and he specifically asked me not to share it, sorry. You could try asking him for it if you see him around on the board.john chuchiak has some similar papers about this topic you should check out
>>16533663>I would link it, but mesoanon lurks here and he specifically asked me not to share itwhy and why do you kneel before him
>>16533408Descendants of Moctezuma live in SpainThe Aztecs nobility was white, the Aztec emperor said so himself when speaking with Cortez, and when they mixed with Spaniards they became "Spaniards" and disapeared.
>>16533674>whypfft I dunno, he's afraid of some rules about recording the conference. >why do you kneel before himlol because he's my friend and I love him too much. I have it on youtube unlisted so I can watch it, I'd like to share it with you. I'm venting my frustration by even bringing it up.
>>16533727you sound like a ravenous faggot
>>16533695> The Aztecs nobility was white, the Aztec emperor said so himself when speaking with CortezThisAztecs came from aztlan (atlantis)
>>16533443ThisWhat happened in Texcoco and the other city
>>16536178Texcoco switched sides during the conquest, because It had been going through a succession crisis, with the claimant not supported by Montezuma managing to take over the city and siding with Cortez as vengeance, It was a pretty important event, arguably one of the main reasons the siege of Tenochtitlan was successful. Afterwards, their nobility spent the early colonial period wewuzzing as pre-columbian christians who shunned human sacrifice and the true architects of the Aztec Empire, in an attempt to gain favor from spanish authorities.Tlacopan was always irrelevant, even before and during the conquest, so not much is said about them. They didn't switch sides unlike Texcoco, but their support obviously didn't matter much in the end, and I remember reading about them becoming one of Cortez' encomienda places after the conquest.
>>16536493What about Tlaxcala Did they benefit from the conquest I heard some Mixtec elites became really wealth through trade with the Spanish
Most would convert, and become part of the aristocracy of the Spanish colonies, being given Christian names.
>>16533408THEY BECAME CHRISTIAN, AND BECAME CATHOLICAL NOBILITY.
>>16537743what the hell man? he was talking to me, and he had a point.
My paternal grandmother is directly descended from the Tlaxcaltecs. The Tlaxcaltecs helped the Spanish topple the Aztec Empire and were rewarded with Spanish land grants. They were sent as auxiliaries to subdue other Native tribes that the Spanish had failed to conquer, like the Chichimeca. The Tlaxcaltecs set up military outposts and Tlaxcaltec families created settlements in places like Colotlán in Jalisco and San Luis Potosi.
>>16533433>the Spanish would take them, torture them on an altar, kill them as a sacrifice to Jesuswhat? when did that happen?
>>16538498Source: his crack pipe
>>16538498>>16538554He's being purposefully hypebolic, referring to spanish executions done for vaguely religious reasons, which did indeed involve torture and feeding people to dogs, as full blown human sacrifices, presumably to get reactions such as yours.
>>16536493>their nobility spent the early colonial period wewuzzing as pre-columbian christians who shunned human sacrifice and the true architects of the Aztec EmpireFernando de Alva Cortés Ixtlilxóchitl wasn't lying.
>>16538987He clearly was
>>16539066How do you know
>>16540343With the fact that literally not a single other central mexican city-state's nobility's accounts mention Nezahualcoyotl being a magic pre-contact christian or Texcoco secretly being the Triple Alliance's true top dog somehow
>>16540372What did other cities say about him
>>16540712That he was a perfectly normal mesoamerican ruler who regularly engaged in human sacrifice and even built a temple to huitzilopochtli
>>16540343We would've known had the Spanish not destroyed the libraries he built.
>>16541170*Nezahualcoyotl built
>>16541170The Spanish didn’t destroy itThe Tlaxcalans burned it down
>>16533695> The Aztecs nobility was white
>>16534855Were Nahuas actually lighter than their neighbors?
>>16533408they became spanish nobleshttps://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ducado_de_Moctezuma_de_Tultengo
>>16533408they were absorbed into the spanish nobilitythe descendants of moctezuma ii became the dukes of moctezuma (for example)
>>16537743/pol/tranny cope
>>16537445The Tlaxcaltecas did quite well for themselves. They managed to gain exclusive privileges, and as such would act as Amerindian auxiliaries. They retained noble titles, autonomy from Spain, and would settle colonies from Guatemala to Northern Mexico and Texas after pacifying Chichimecha (Mesoamerican equivalent to 'barbarians') there on behalf of the Spaniards. They even participated in the Conquest of the Philippines.
>>16545159How long did it last
>>16533695There are thousands of descendents of Moctezuma around today in Mexico and the US.
>>16545159Yes, my paternal grandmother is directly descended from Tlaxcaltec families that were sent to settle in regions of northern Mexico. My great grandfather was born in Colotlán, Jalisco, which used to be called Villa de Nueva Tlaxcala de Quiahuistlán.
>>16533408Most became a part of the Spanish elite and kept some of their noble titles. There are people whose last name is Moctezuma living in Mexico today, they do not appear very native. For example, José Juan Marcilla de Teruel-Moctezuma y Valcárcel is the holder of the title of duke of Moctezuma of Tultengo (this somewhat irrelevant, since the Mexican Constitution bans noble titles).>>16537445A somewhat substantial portion of tlaxcaltecas became settlers in the north of New Spain and even remained nobles through their settlement. This is especially found throughout the northeast, that is, Coahuila, Nuevo León and Tamaulipas, especially Coahuila. Some other natives, especially their nobles, were allowed some degree of self-governance through "Repúblicas de indios" (indian republics) though these were eventually phased out and abolished (I do not know when or by whom).Hope this helps.
Actually decent thread
>>16547456Did any noble families survive to modern times
>>16533408Cool painting
>>16541860>It wasn't spanish clergymen doing missionary work who burned the books, it was the Tlaxcaltecs! Everything was the Tlaxcaltecs! They totally broke into a library belonging to a state allied to them and the spaniards just to burn some books down at some point because...they just did okay?This "EVERYTHING during the conquest wuz the native alliez' doing!" pop-his trope is quickly becoming almost as annoying as the "a couple dozen spaniards single-handedly conquered the Americas one"
>>16550544It was probably the texcocoans themselves who burned them really, the tlatoani claimant who took over the city and sided with Cortez had hardcore convert's zeal and threatened his family and the city's entire population with death if they didn't convert.
>>16533408My Mexican grandfather used to tell us that his grandfather believed we were the direct descendants of the King Coliman (Rey Coliman or Colimotl). I think he was just messing with us because he was a drunk, I still miss the old bastard though.
>>16550544The conquest of the aztec empire was more complicated than just evil spaniards burning everything down and eating babies
>>16552377It was also a lot more complicated than angry tlaxcaltecs burning everything down because they were le oppressed, but you don't wanna hear that
>>16552473I’m not saying that tlaxcaltecs burned everything down but they played a large part in the destruction and massacres that happened during the conquest
>>16544419>dukes of moctezumaHere you have the last descendant of the Moctezuma dinasty and Duke in Spain. He is a hardcore Spain´s defensor. He should be proclamed King of Mexico to restore the order and stop the shitty leftists (AMLO) contaminating mexicans with their woke and antispanish politics.
>>16552765And I'm saying that it's quite unlikely for the Tlaxcaltecs to have burned down the books in Nezahualcoyotl's library, which is what this conversation is specifically about
>>16553536The Tlaxcaltecs were enemies and fought many wars against Texcoco. What makes you think they wouldn't set their city on fire when they finally conquered them
>>16553567Because Texcoco sided with the spanish during the conquest, read the the fucking thread nigger
>>16553585Texcoco didn’t side with the Spanish, they had a civil war and had a prince who asked the conquistadors for help in overthrowing his brother
>>16538498Well, just judging from his post and Cortes's letters, but: after the siege of Tenochtitlan was finished.
>>16552813He sounds like more of a whore than Malinche was tbqh. More importantly, why the fuck do you want more Guatemalans shipped to Spain?
>>16544419>>16552813>>16554639Based and Hispano-pilled. To be fair, why would he hate the Spaniards when they were the ones who made their ancestors part of the nobility, with all their rights and privileges, instead of being killed or sent to reservations like Anglos did? No one except the Spaniards did that kind of thing.
>>16555303>Tenochitlan had 500,000 people in 6 square miles, not even touching the rest of the Valley>8,000 Powhatans lived in 8,000 square miles in what was eventually colonial VirginiaMight've been a factor.
I'm just popping into this thread to say the Mexican history is fucking fascinating and it's bizarre to me how relatively unknown it is. I think it's the names desu.
>>16555657It's interesting but unless it's pre-conques mexican history a thread about it is going to devolve into cumgenius hispanchista VGHposting about being ruled by spaniards
>>16555657The names are all goofy af
>>16555679>pre-conques mexican historyEven that you could still get pro-Nahuatl people against pro-Mayan people.
>>16556860Doesn't happen at all, pre-columbian threads tend to always be racists & schizos vs Mesoamericaboos, who in turn never really argue against each other in the same unironically competitive way 4chan discussion tends to go
>>16554639> More importantly, why the fuck do you want more Guatemalans shipped to Spain?What’s this supposed to mean
>>16555657It's actually quite boring from a macro point of view. Especially if you've already read up on the Old World extensively.t.mexican
>>16559138What do they teach about the Aztecs and Incas in Mexican schools
>>16560034Not that anon, but:>AztecsBasically just the events before the Spaniards came to Mexico.>IncasAbsolutely nothing
>>16533408At least 3 presumptive heirs of the Aztek throne were recognized by the Spanish Empire. Their descendants gained various titles, joined knightly orders, collected pensions, the whole nine yards.The Tlaxcala, because they were very valuable allies during the conquest, became hidalgos, Spanish nobles, albeit minor ones except for a few houses that got fiefs handed to them by the Spanish.
>>16560314Do they go over the different emperors and wars that they had before the Spanish or is it mostly focused on the conquest
>>16560314>Incas>Absolutely nothingEw, a CONALEP student.YVXJ
>>16548186>For example, José Juan Marcilla de Teruel-Moctezuma y Valcárcel is the holder of the title of duke of Moctezuma of Tultengo (this somewhat irrelevant, since the Mexican Constitution bans noble titles).Was I not clear enough?
>>16561475Any other ones?
>>16561475surely, but I don't know their names
>>16561349What’s CONALEP
Why were they able to conquer Mexico but not Morocco
>>16563161they had native allies in Mexico that they helped liberate from the Aztec yoke and participated in their rule
>>16563182Why didn’t they ship some of those native allies back to Spain and ask them to help conquer Morocco
