Why do people accuse of Irving of being a holocaust denier? He doesn't deny shit, just has a slightly different view of the murder methods and where most of the victims came from.the late Hitchens even considered him to be a legit scholar.
>>16539579what about the middle hitchens?
>>16539579It’s because of the Lipstadt trial. He sued some Jewish holocaust professor in the late 90s for calling him a denier (which he wasn’t). He then completely bungled the case by turning it into a debate over whether or not the Holocaust happened rather than rebutting Lipstadt’s claims of him being a denier or Hitler apologist. Predictably, he lost, because no British judge is going to side with an old White dude over legions of wealthy Jewish lawyers when the topic of debate is the Holocaust. After that, he just became “Holocaust denial man” in the eyes of media.
>>16539599Did the holocaust happen?
>>16539665Yeah, most likely.
>>16539579There are two camps in the world of Holocaust denial. There are those who claim the whole thing is a fabrication. These are unserious people. Then there are those who accept the obvious historical fact of the large-scale slaughter of European Jewry during WW2, while claiming that the established Holocaust narrative is full of exaggerations and inaccuracies. Irving falls into this latter camp. While he doesn't deny the whole, he does deny major details.
He denies gas chambers which debunks the entire holocaust
>>16540383How, he accepts gas vans and Einsatzgruppen shootings. The total death toll of Jewry ist about 3.5 million for him.
>>16540390Nobody accepts gas vans and gas vans aren't gas chambers, he denies gas chambers which debunks death camps and the holocaust. He doesn't deny jews were deported which is the last leg jews have to stand on. Which is why it's Israeli law to be genocide if you deport a jew
>>16539579>the late Hitchens even considered him to be a legit scholar.Hitchens had an interesting thing where he said Irving was not just a fascist historian (Irving once called himself a "mild fascist" or a "moderate fascist"), but a great historian of fascism, like the guy really did know a lot about the Third Reich and met a lot of its leading figures and unearthed a half-ton (more or less precisely) amount of original material and made that available to other researchers who went on to write books that added to new understanding of the Third Reich and the Holocaust. Even Jewish historians who have written books about the Holocaust sigh when the name Irving comes up because they have to acknowledge him even if his motivations were suspect. He spoke impeccable German. He also never once described the Holocaust as a hoax.Hitchens was also a free speech guy. He believed Holocaust deniers and Nazi sympathizers had a right to publish their views, because if a right is denied to one faction it will be eventually denied to others. He also made a pragmatic case, that if more people read Mein Kampf at the time then more people would understand the threat it contained.
>>16539579>Hitchensthe guy who supported invading Iraq in 2003? not the flex you think it is.
>>16540405Irving didn't accept gas vans outside of possible experiments because the Germans had discovered there were easier ways of killing people.>"Here I want to mention something that I’m always very adamant about. Although we revisionists say that gas chambers didn’t exist, and that the ‘factories of death’ didn’t exist, there is no doubt in my mind that on the Eastern front large numbers of Jews were massacred by criminals with guns – SS men, Ukrainians, Lithuanians, whatever – to get rid of them. They were made to line up next to pits or ditches, and then shot. The eyewitness accounts I’ve seen of this are genuine and reliable ... The people who were pulling the triggers were on one level and the people who were taking the top level decisions were on the highest level and there wasn’t necessarily perfect communication between them and anyway who cares because it’s only the Jews and nobody liked them. This is the kind of atmosphere in which the decisions would have been taken."
>>16539665obviously not
>>16541067>okay I was lying about the gas vansokay
>>16541128You're talking to a different anon retard
>>16541147Okay so the first guy was lying about gas vans being anything but propaganda
>>16539665Idk
anyone who takes david irving seriously is retarded
Irvingfag is one of the worst posters on this board
>>16539579Most historians are clueless, liars, or useful idiots. They are not allowed free thought if they want to get their grant money.
>>16541585you morons repeat this ad nauseum when academic tenure exists to prevent the very problem you're describing.Also Irving got blown the fuck out in the libel trial he himself brought. He repeatedly lied and omitted details from his sources to serve his agenda.
>>16541604I can see your huge nose from here.
>>16541604https://www.aaup.org/article/end-faculty-tenure-and-transformation-higher-education
>>16541613I can see your empty skull from here.
>>16541617>In the last decade, conservatives have launched multiple attacks on faculty tenure in higher education. As we understandably focus on these episodes in states such as Florida, Georgia, Louisiana, Missouri, South Dakota, Texas, and Wisconsin, we too readily ignore slow and steady developments that are destroying tenure in California and other progressive states.Yes, this is a growing problem and I'm against it.We can counter-act this by protecting academic freedom and voting in progressive candidates.
>>16539665Yes it happened, but:1. It was probably less than 6m2. It was not in the main an industrial liquidation operation, as per H. industry.3. More non-Jews were killed by the Nazis, mainly Slavs of course.>But these are "hate facts", so be careful saying them out loud.;
>>16541585What grant money?
>>16541755I don't care if the number was 6 million, it's just an estimate.But I have seen zero evidence for why the number should be less than 6 million. Anyone saying this usually ends up repeating long debunked denier talking points, or just strawmanning the academic consensus.Within 3 posts you will probably be talking about holocoasters and masturbation machines.>3. More non-Jews were killed by the Nazis, mainly Slavs of course.If you're including all WWII deaths or even acts of ethnic cleansing, this is certainly true and uncontested. What is different is that Nazis made it their goal to eradicate all Jews in Europe and set up an industrial level operation to transport Jews across Europe to killing centers in Eastern Europe.While the Nazis ethnically cleansed Poles, starved millions of Soviet POW's, and in the long run wanted to exterminate most slavs, they did not go to the same level of effort to kill them in the immediate term because of conspiratorial beliefs about the international slavic cabal.
>>16541829I will provide an example. Excerpt from a recent academic history book I bought.https://www.amazon.com/Venices-Secret-Service-Intelligence-Renaissance/dp/0198791313?asin=0198791313&revisionId=&format=4&depth=1
>>16541585You know what else prevents free thought in academia? Falsely suing people for defamation.
>>16541904kek
>>16539665doesn't matter. Nazism will never be rehabilitated
>>16539665Typhoid outbreaks.
>>16541938so why didn't the Nazis let them go then?
>>16541963It was cold outside
>>16541888And you think all historians get this?
>>16542074I don't, that's exactly my point.
>>16541963>why didn't the nazis free criminals into the countryside
>>16542243what crime did the jewish children commit again?
>>16542287Even jews admit half the prisoners in camps were common criminals
>>16542303You didn't explain the crime the jewish children in the camps committed.
>>16542308You mean the ones born there?
