>create an anti-communism alliance>fast forward a few decades>communism ceases to exist>...>the alliance gets even stronger
>>16551294America is communist right now thanks to Biden.
>>16551294It went from an alliance designed to counter the Warsaw Pact to becoming the backbone of the American Empire and greater Western world.It's glorious. Pity it's been tainted by abysmal leadership and appropriated by the most insufferable type of tranny the internet has ever produced.
>>16551311where is the communism, all I see is bog standard neoliberalism>>16551294no, it was mostly against the USSR, in popular parlance Russia
>>16551396It was an anti-communism alliance when it was founded, communism was a monolith with few exceptions until the Sino-Soviet split
>>16551399they meant russia, everyone knew they meant russia at the time, nato was formed expressly to counter russian domination of europe and specifically further russian invasion of west germany
>>16551294It was/is fundamentally an anti-Russian alliance. If Russia during the Cold War had some other kind of seething totalitarian anti-western ideology NATO would still have been formed. It’s a question of east and west, not communist vs anticommunist.
>they meant russia, everyone knew they meant russia at the time, nato was formed expressly to counter russian domination of europe and specifically further russian invasion of west germanyOf course, but Russia was obviously captured by a powerful and deeply ideological regime that was a clear and present threat .>>16551415>seething totalitarian anti-western ideologyI mean, obviously, but communism was unique for a number of reasons.
>>16551294It's a Western alliance, communism was never the main focus.
>>16551427Yes it was unique, but NATO was formed more so out of a fundamental Western European/American fear of the Russians political/social/economic way of life, which was justified. Nobody in their right mind would ever want Stalin to have more territory and influence than he was able to get through exploiting scatter-brained western weak points. If Russia had gone hardcore tsarist under some bloody and massively cruel tsar in the late 1940s and started executing/gulaging hundreds of thousands of people for not being Orthodox/loyal to Great Russia enough there still almost certainly would have been some sort of euro-American pact to keep Russia’s shit contained to their own side of Central Europe.
On a somewhat unrelated note should non-North Western nations like Japan join NATO?
>>16551438Wasn't there a failed attempt at an asian NATO?
>>16551432Absolutely. That fact is the main reason why I really like NATO as an instituton, because it is quite literally the hard infrastructure of an alliance of Western civilzation and the few civilized Muslim nations.
>>16551443Yes, it was called SEATO and was the security agreement the U.S tried to cobble during Vietnam. I have no idea why who was in it were in it. If the U.S just focused on getting Malaysia, Indonesia, the ROC, Singapore, and the like into joining it would've been a pretty worthwhile endeavor.
>>16551443Yeah SEATOBut what I'm proposing is that instead of making a new organization they join NATO as full time members. No major non-NATO ally crap
>>16551331NATO founded in: 1949Warsaw Pact founded in: 1954The USA is the only empire in history which convinced its citizens it's not an empire.
>>16551452Because it'd be far too many strategic interests for a single organization to juggle without being atrophied.I definitely think a U.S alliance in Asia should've been done during the Cold War but oh well, here we are now.
>>16551432>If Russia had gone hardcore tsarist under some bloody and massively cruel tsar in the late 1940s and started executing/gulaging hundreds of thousands of people for not being Orthodox/loyal to Great Russia enoughVGH...
>>16551457The Warsaw Pact was nothing more than a legal/political framework to cement Soviet occupation, much like NATO was for American occupation.Only difference is Euros have no problem with being a part of the American empire, while they kick and scream at the thought of being under Russian boot.>The USA is the only empire in history which convinced its citizens it's not an empire.Exceptionalism and political myth are not exclusive to the U.S.
>>16551462>Euros have no problemOnly the dogs of Wilson have no problem with American rule. The rest of us hates the USA with a passion and could easily exterminate Russia if not for America saving it.
>>16551458I understand that a decent chunk of our "allies" have their own agenda and would have no problem abandoning the Western framework if it became convenient for them like Pakistan but there are some countries like Japan whose relationship has shown be to solidly pro-Western
>>16551470>and could easily exterminate Russia if not for America saving itDo Euroids really
>>16551479Do what? >Japan easily rects Russia>Murtadia jumps in to save it>Germany fucks up Russia>America jumps in, but it's too late save Russia, still fucks over Germany>Germany goes in for round two>USA saves Russia againAmericans love Russians and they would do anything to save them.
>>16551491>America got involved WW2 to protect the Soviet Union
>>16551294Has it grown stronger or more fragile and impotent with so many bickering members with wildly opposing interests and willing to free ride?
>>16551501The best way I would describe it is that it's like a bunch quarrelling siblings.
>>16551505Bold of you to call easterners "siblings"". I would throw them under the bus at the slghtless chance if they werent useful cannon fodder.
>>16551470>could easily exterminate RussiaThen why do you all cry bloody fucking murder like we might as well be letting Russia re-enact the Holodomor every time we do so much as look away from Ukraine?Face it, you're a vassal/satellite and you like it, dirty slut.>>16551474For sure, but the same can't be said for anywhere else outside of places in Asia with U.S troops present. Japan and SK are the only real solid allies/satellites the U.S has there, everybody else is out for themselves over there(and Japan doesn't even have a functioning military structure the way any other country in the world does).The best thing would be to have parallel alliance structures, a Pacific NATO and actual NATO to keep things simple and compartmentalized.
>>16551432Weirdly, I watched Hillary Clinton and Condi Rice being interviewed by Jon Stewart, and he brought up NATO and the purpose it, y'know this debate everyone has been having, and said it was to stop communism. And both of them were like "ehh, not... really." Or that was kind of parallel to what it was really set up to do, which was to check Soviet expansionism in Europe.
>>16551513>I would throw them under the bus at the slghtless chance if they werent useful cannon fodder.They're the only ones apart from the U.S/UK that are of value in the alliance at this point frankly, WTF does Germany or Spain add to the alliance at all other than filling out the map.>>16551501It's grown stronger de facto but lacks commanding leadership from the U.S, and so is surprisingly aimless and has been for some time.
>>16551528They're clueless incompetents.
>>16551519>Every European is a PoleLol we don't care about Russians killing each other
>>16551543You will though when 1.5 million Russian BVLLs collapse the entire Ukrainian state and march to the border of 5 NATO countries. Even the NATOids themselves are admitting its coming.
>>16551548>You will though when 1.5 million Russian BVLLs collapse the entire Ukrainian stateI thought that was supposed to happen three days into the war
>>16551543They all become Poles when Trump does so much as sneeze in NATO's direction and the idea of Daddy America not being there to protect them from the resident Abusive Uncle of Europe gives them rape flashbacks.
Russians? Who's talking about the Russians? The independent deterrent is there to protect us against the French. They may be allies now, but they've been our enemies for the most of the past 900 years. If they've got the bomb, we must have the bomb. Can't trust the Frogs.
>>16551550NTA but it didn't happen because of us telling the rest of NATO to get its shit together for once.
>>16551554Obama gave them blankets while Trump gave them Javelin missiles. That part is true. I do think however that we should in all honesty end this immediately, and we could very quickly if these timid failed leaders could dial back their arrogance and self-importance enough to just admit they are incompetent. The current leadership is so indecisive and concerned only about optics and personal "legacy" (i.e. getting treated good by the media instead of making hard but necessary decisions) that it will literally play with other peoples' lives and leave people to die like they did in Afghanistan, because they prioritize whatever would be better for their personal "legacy." They choose to be in denial about everything they did wrong and gaslight people about it, distracting us with woke talking points rather than actually making an effort to make things right and stop being incompetent, indecisive, treacherous and timid, like a complete failure of a leader.Basically, the incompetent woke Democrat who got their diversity hire position always wants all the social perks and bragging rights to talk about themselves at cocktail parties for having "important positions," but none of the responsibility or leadership that comes with it. They don't realize they're getting people killed, and risking millions of people being potentially killed due to their incompetence, which is unfathomably severe due to them being diversity hires. And that is why NATO can't function the way it was intended.
