>The IRA's core demands were the end of British sovereignty in Northern Ireland, the withdrawal of British military and political authority, and the reunification of Ireland as a single independent state, along with the release of republican prisoners, recognition of Irish national self-determination, and, particularly during the Troubles, an end to what they viewed as discrimination against the Catholic nationalist community by Northern Irish and British institutions.so, they weren't the villains
>>18303591>catholic>nationalistPick one. You can't be both.
>>18303603>nooooo you can't express two contradictory beliefs, that's unheard of and I would never neglect to hold myself to the same standard!
>>18303591>majority of people in Northern Ireland don't want to be unified with Ireland>IRA wants to force them to unify anyway>not villains
>>18303617>majority>says who?>m-me...
>>18303591You will never have a united Ireland. You have no funds, you have no support, you have no soul.
>>18303640I don't give a fuck about Ireland, cuck.
>>18303603Nationalist in Northern Ireland means those who favour Ireland being one nation and not partitioned and governed solely by people on this island.
>>18303619>majority of people want to be unified with Ireland>says who>m-me...
>>18303667you behave like a homosexual. stay away from me, homo
>SURE IT IS OLD BUT IT IS BEAUTIFUL
>>18303684>>SURE IT IS OLD BUT IT IS BEAUTIFUL
>>18303684Thon hairstyle looks like it's from 1690
>>18303684On a scale of 1 - 10 how triggered are you by OPs shitty thread?
>>18303684>London destroys your heavy industry and ship building to the Orientals so they could make more money and centralise it down south>They don't give a single shit about the issues of that part of the UK until it directly affects the England>Nobody in GB actually gives a fuck about them despite all their simping for England and the crown>Neither country actually wants NI since it's a shithole economically and sociallySo Ulster Loyalists have to be one of history's biggest lolcows.
>>18303591You mean they were the villains
>>18303684I will take the right over the left any day
>>18303884The guy holding the Nazi flag in the bottom right hand corner is a child rapist from England.
>>18303884
>>18303591Yes, r*dditor, commie terrorists were the villians
>>18303619Most Northern Irish are against unification https://www.statista.com/statistics/1311968/irish-reunification-survey-northern-ireland/
>>18303591>so, they weren't the villainsNo, obviously not. They were a product of the political environment; everyone was totally disillusioned with the idea that Britain would ever actually properly govern them. Secessionist ideas were very much on the far fringe of Irish politics until the 1910s.>>18303603Irish Nationalism isn't religious, modern Irish nationalism was quite literally founded by Protestants.>>18303617>m-muh majorityWhen you create a completely nonsensical and dysfunctional political entity that's designed to have a perma-majority for one thing, this will happen. How come majority nationalist areas got annexed into NI to keep it afloat?There is no argument for partition that makes sense other than "it was best thing Britain could come up with at the time.">>18304204>1920s IRA>CommunistsThe actual Irish Communists saw the IRA at the time as an enemy they'd have to fight.>>18303882>the villainsThey definitely weren't the worst belligerent force at the time.>all the /int/ and /pol/slop in the rest of the threadback to your containment boards, fags
>>18303640you're trans btw
Underage Ógra Shinn Féin sorts or bumbling Unionists both tend to have retarded views about the reality of Ireland in the 1920s.The IRA was certainly more """left wing""" than it was """right wing""", as their loyalty was to the principles of the 1916 Proclamation, which included:>Republicanism>Universal suffrage (for women, too)>an end to "differences carefully fostered by an alien government">"religious and civil liberty">"equal rights and equal opportunities" Then there's the Democratic Programme of the 1st Fáil, which was more openly socialist with things like>state funding for childcare+education>public ownership of natural resources/national wealthBut of course, not everyone necessarily fully supported this; many simply wanted to secure independence and figure the rest out later.In reality (again, as many Sinn Féin sorts hate to be reminded of) had partition been avoided it's highly likely that relations between Ireland and the UK would be much better, and that all of Ireland would be much better off. Most voters in Ireland were not radicals, they were not violent separatists. Had all the voters lost to partition remained, the first post-independence Governments would have essentially been>2 factions of Irish Nationalism>Anglophile/Unionist bloc is kingmaker for governmentInstead, the Free State got>2 factions of Irish Nationalism>Unionism deadWhilt Northern Ireland got>1 party rule>the party is retarded, the state collapses
>>18304433>>18304446Who colourises these images?
>>18303591They weren't the villains until IRA (marxist edition)
>>18303591Obviously, nationalists (anti imperialists) are always the good guys.
>>18304459There are lots of people doing it, the best get collected and published in a series called "Old Ireland in Colour."The best "colouriser" I know of is a fella called Rob Cross, as he is also very clued in historically and will research things like fabrics and clothing and so on to make sure things are as accurately coloured as possible.>>18304465So specifically the Official IRA post-1969, then?The main Republican belligerent (Provisional IRA) only really existed out of their opposition to the dominance of Marxist/Eurocommunist stuff in the IRA.
Always thought it was very cool that we have a photo of the 1st Dáil Éireann in process.The fact that everyone in attendance (in favour and opposed) remarked at how significant the meeting felt. Even the representative of the Lord Lieutenant (George Moore) stated that he felt that it was an orderly affair whcih represented the general feeling in the County. Can only imagine how it felt to be there.
>>18304208>we want Britshit cocks in our arses, mate
>>18304208Of course they are. The deciding factors are>pension>education>healthcareMost people feel all 3 are better ensured by being in the UK than in the ROI-this is why the main battleground for the UI debate is economic, although the only ones really doing any work there are the pro-Unity campaign.Unionism is still focusing on>muh country>muh flag>muh identityWhich is retarded, because not every anti-unity voter gives a fuck about any of that. Most people in Northern Ireland do not vote for Unionist parties for a reason, and most are basically hoping that the UUP never catch on to this fact. The best hope the Unity campaign has is that Unionism remains stubbornly right wing/marred by Orangeism, which will allow the trend of bleeding votes out of Unionism to continue.
>>18303851everyone but themselves sees them as some wacko tribe of irishman. even ian paisley called himself irish, noting that you cannot be an ulsterman without being an irishman. they suck the cock of the british state and crown, however most British people want nothing to do with them and consider them an embarrassing holdout of colonial ireland
>>18303693>>18303696>>18303698>>18303851>>18304036>>18304034Taig cope
>>18304571British people love ulster which is why we have regular orange parades and fly the red hand flag
>>18303693>>18303696>>18303698>>18303851>>18304036Ulster Loyalists would have purged nonwhites from belfast in the 2024 riots but taigs unironically formed a human wall to protect browns from proud white men
>>18303693>>18303696>>18303698>>18303851>>18304036>>18304034
>>18304725They did no such thing. Too bad you Lancashire men are such cucks and would never do what Loyalists do do you have to look up to them and lick their holes because you know they're the only Brits with balls unlike you English men. You never done anything in your life for your country and people you pathetic old faggot.
>>18304723British people don't give a fuck about the half of Ulster in the UK and even the huns know this.
>>18304738>They did no such thingThey did>Too bad you Lancashire men are such cucks and would never do what Loyalists do do you have to look up to them and lick their holes because you know they're the only Brits with balls unlike you English men. You never done anything in your life for your country and people you pathetic old faggot.Which is why we rioted in southport and burnt down police cars?Don't be jealous
>>18304721Ian Stuart Donaldson was a pedo who couldn't drive and killed himself in a crash and took some other skinhead faggot with him. It's hilarious how you put him in that image you posted too considering he was a nobody that no one in Northern Ireland knew or heard of.
>>18304742>Ian Stuart Donaldson was a pedoNo proof for this>who couldn't drive and killed himself in a crash and took some other skinhead faggot with himHe was murdered by the government>It's hilarious how you put him in that image you posted too considering he was a nobody that no one in Northern Ireland knew or heard of.His song smash the ira was a hit in ulster and he was allied with ulster loyalist paramilitaries and his skinheads beat up ira parades in england
>>18304740>weYou weren't there faggot. So many of the rioters arrested had Irish surnames too. Irish Britons doing more for England than you faggy skin head degenerates ever did.
>>18304746>You weren't there faggot.I was going there in a car with the lads but by the time we were halfway there it was over by that point>So many of the rioters arrested had Irish surnames too. Irish Britons doing more for England than you faggy skin head degenerates ever did.Most of them had english surnames, even if they did have irish surnames they waved english flags anyway
>>18304745>No proof for thisPlenty of rumours though. Martin Cross ran about with Sam McCrory the Loyalist and boy hungry predator. >>18304745>He was murdered by the governmentThe British government would never be that based. The skin head retard just couldn't drive. >>18304745>His songOh wow he sung a song... I'm sure the IRA were cowering in terror and the skinhead homo degenerate and his shitty music.
>>18304749>was going there in a car with the lads but by the time we were halfway there it was over by that pointDid you all have to stop and collect your state pension on the way? Is that what held you degenerate aging skinheads up?
>>18304753>Plenty of rumours though. Martin Cross ran about with Sam McCrory the Loyalist and boy hungry predatorAnd gerry adam's brother is a nonce but you don't seem to be talking about that do you>The British government would never be that based. The skin head retard just couldn't driveStop coping taig>Oh wow he sung a song... I'm sure the IRA were cowering in terror and the skinhead homo degenerate and his shitty music.Ira supporters were cowering when they tried to march in england and got the shit beaten out of them by a bunch of skinhead patriots
>>18304759There's nothing wrong with being on benefitsI've been on PIP for years
doubt the thread is salvageable at this point, but whateverAMA about the Irish Republic (1916, 1919-1922)>The what?The Irish Republic is the revolutionary government fought for by Irish Nationalists in 1916, then again from 1919-1922. >Did it really "exist"?Yes; while it began mostly as an insurrectionary parliament, it later came to more or less govern much of Ireland during the War of Independence. The Irish Republic had its own system of courts and police, and as British authority collapsed in certain areas it was quickly replaced with a Republican replacement.Dáil Éireann was the revolutionary government, and the Irish Volunteers (later, the IRA) was its military.
>>18304761>And gerry adam's brother is a nonce but you don't seem to be talking about that do youThat doesn't matter a fuck to me because I hate Sinn féin and I'm not a Republican and despise Republicanism too. You will have to try harder my old faggot.
>>18304766Sure you do mate
>>18304761>Ira supporters were cowering when they tried to march in england and got the shit beaten out of them by a bunch of skinhead patriotsI'll take things that didn't happen for 500 please bob.
>>18304773you can search up newspapers but choose to ignore it if you want taig
>>18304765Demonstration in support of the Irish Republic in London, 1920s.
>>18304799>crowd of 12 peoplelolthe british covenant received 2 million signatures in comparison
>>18304776Why don't you do it for me. The burden of proof is on you.
>>18304809it's not my job to spoonfeed you
>>18303591The IRA's core demands were whatever the Kaiser, and later Colonel Gaddafi, told them they were. Irish independence only moved from weepy eyed and romantic poetry fans singing 'the old songs' in pubs to armed resistance as a false flag operation run by Britain's enemies. On a related note it's interesting how many of the most strident advocates of Scottish Nationalism/Independence on social media went silent the Instant Iran imposed its domestic block on the internet.
National Army uniforms were kino
>>18304860You're seethe posting and trying to deceive others.
Éamon de Valera campaigning for support in an upcoming election, 1917.
>>18303591>the reunification of Ireland as a single independent stateThe majority of Northern Ireland did not want this, which makes the IRA the villains.
>>18304879The IRA didn't start the conflict.The Troubles started due to riots caused by Loyalists (often aided by the RUC) attacking the civil rights movement's marches and protests. Hardline Loyalists-hoping to prevent O'Neill's government from conceding anything to the civil rights movement-formed paramilitaries in 1966 and began terror campaigns which lead to the resultant attacks on Civil Rights groups.The IRA was the last belligerent to enter the conflict.
>>18304887Nobody would even have called the Troubles a conflict if not for the IRA.
>>18304891We don't know what would have happened, other than that without the IRA the Irish Catholics in Northern Ireland would have had a much rougher time of it.The IRA's campaign from 1969-1998 is honestly even easier to justify than the IRA's campaign in 1919-1922.
>>18304875>Germany didn't control arms flow to the Irish revolution and use that leverage to achieve its own ends>The IRA was not working hand in hand with Gaddafi to secure access to weapons and trainingProjection.jpg
>>18304892Until 1973 it arguably was, but for the remaining 25 years it objectively wasn't as Westminster had abolished the discriminatory rule of Stormont through the Northern Ireland Constitution Act.The main gripes the Catholic community had with British authorities after that were directly related to the counter-terrorist campaign against the IRA, i.e. they certainly would have had a better time if the IRA didn't terrorize the people of Ulster.
>>18304898The problem is that by 1973 the British Army had managed to radicalise huge chunks of the population against them by committing numerous atrocities against civilians. I agree that the conflict absolutely could have been ended in the early 1970s were it not for some of the insane escalations from either side.In 1973, the attitude of>fuck the British, I don't trust their reformswas extremely easy to justify. No indication as to when the very sectarian RUC or the various Loyalist Paramilitaries were going to be dealt with, though.
Since this thread has been bogged down by retards /pol/ shitflinging I'll ask irish history anon this.When did English and Scottish settlers in Ireland start calling themselves and labelling themselves as Irish? Was it the 1640s? The 1680s? Did the defenders at the siege of Derry call themselves Irish Protestants for example?
>>18304918I don't know that they all ever identified as Irish, that was more common with the southern Anglican aristocrats. The settlers in the northeast developed a sort of identity of their own that was heavily tied to their Presbyterian/other dissenter faiths. They faced hostility both from the Catholic Gaels and from their Anglican rulers, and particularly following the events of 1641 a distinctively dissenter-protestant-ulster identity formed.
>>18304923IIRC from what i've read Presbyterians in the North identifed as Irish, just as Irish protestants and as a seperate identity from catholic gaelic types, until the troubles.When did they statrt calling themselves irish?
>>18304910That's one of the more cynical strengths of terrorism. Either your opponent doesn't respond/pulls their punches - making them look weak and making it easier for you to obtain your goals. Or, they go all out 'zero tolerance' and make it very easy for civvies to see them as the bad guys and you as at least 'the lesser evil'.
>>18304910That perspective was to some extent understandable, but I don't think it is justifiable. And it's not like the more rational opinion that reform, and even reunification, could be achieved peacefully was obscure and fringe among Catholics at that time, it was after all the line that the SDLP stood for.
>>18304433>The actual Irish Communists saw the IRA at the time as an enemy they'd have to fight.IRA have always been socialist/communist
>>18304484Northern Irish are British, retard
>>18304471Left-wing nationalism is cringe (and not real nationalism)
>>18304872Army uniforms around the world were better back then
>>18305449>The IRA that emerged from the debacle of the Republican Congress would be inspired primarily by a conservative, strictly nationalist political outlook and was increasingly influenced by radical right-wing ideas based on Catholic social teaching such as corporatism, distributism and even the fascist ideology of Ailtirí na hAiséirghe, which sent books, journals and posters to IRA internees imprisoned in the Curragh.>Anti-Semitic sentiments also began to be expressed, including satisfaction at the 'cleansing fires' of the Wehrmacht driving the Jews out of Europe, and accusations towards the Irish government of being dominated by "Jews and Freemasons".[24] Seamus O'Donovan denounced Britain and the United States as being "centres of Freemasonry, international financial control and Jewry".[25] In 1939 O'Donovan became increasingly enamoured of Nazi ideology and visited Germany three times 'to discuss potential agents, the supply of arms in the event of war, [and to collect] radio sets and courier communication.'[26] In 1942 he wrote an article arguing that Ireland's future lay in an alliance with a victorious Germany.>In 1940, prominent members and supporters of the IRA established Córas na Poblachta, which, among its objectives, called for the "destruction of the Masonic Order in Ireland" and the "reversal of the cultural conquest of our country by England", not excluding "the employment of compulsion" to that end.[28] Many far-right figures joined the party, including Ó Cuinneagáin, who lead the party's youth wing, Aicéin, until its independence was terminated in 1942, while Córas na Poblachta took on a strongly anti-Semitic and pro-German character.>The IRA's ideological shift was noted by other organisations at the time. In 1940, the Communist Party of Ireland, which had been close to the IRA in the 1930s, published an article in its official newspaper for Northern Ireland The Red Hand that openly questioned if the IRA had become a pro-fascist group.
>>18304887The IRA did start the Troubles. The British Army coming into Northern Ireland in the early 70's stopped loyalist mobs from attacking catholics. However the IRA began attacking British troops, triggering the start of the Troubles
>>18304892The IRA didn't care about how many Irish catholics died. All they cared about was united Ireland
>>18305469Source?
>>18305479https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Republican_Army_(1922%E2%80%931969)
>>18305480>Wikipedia Lmao
Taigs in the 60s wanted to do what MLK did with his nogs in america and riot and kill their rightful overlords, thankfully the ulster loyalists were merciful on them, but taigs chimped out and thats what led to the provos
>>18305488Okay, here's another source, and a much more detailed one.https://historyireland.com/oh-heres-to-adolph-hitler-the-ira-and-the-nazis/>War News, the IRA’s main publication, became increasingly pro-Nazi in tone, even claiming active IRA involvement in the German bombing of British cities. But more chillingly it began to ape anti-Semitic arguments. Satisfaction was expressed that the ‘cleansing fire’ of the German armies was driving the Jews from Europe. British war minister Hore Belisha was described as a ‘wealthy Jew’ only interested in ‘profits’. War News condemned the arrival in Ireland of ‘so-called Jewish refugees’, along with unspecified numbers of ‘Albanian, Abyssinian, Mongolian [and] Tartars’. These new arrivals were not only supposedly putting Irish people out of work but also exploiting those that they employed. Belfast was said to be increasingly in the ‘hands of international Jewry’ because of this influx. ‘The Jews’, War News warned, were ‘like the English, when they are strong they bully and rule.’ In Dublin de Valera’s government was also dominated by ‘Jews and Freemasons’ who were becoming the ‘new owners of Ireland’. Fianna Fáil TD Robert Briscoe was singled out for attack.Given the tiny numbers of Jewish refugees actually allowed access to Ireland this logic was perverse, but it reflected a strand of thought previously expressed within the republican movement on numerous occasions by the Sinn Féin leader J.J. O’Kelly (Scelig). Throughout the 1930s Sinn Féin publications written by O’Kelly had repeatedly attacked alleged Jewish influence in Ireland. By 1940 he was praising Hitler for freeing Germany from the ‘heel’ of the ‘Jewish white slave traffic’. Indeed, by 1940 republicans and former Blueshirts were mingling in a variety of small pro-German organisations in Dublin. What is clear is that at least a section of the IRA leadership was attracted by Nazism’s successes.
>>18304721>>18304725>>18304728Not a paddy retard. Just laugh at you faggots simping for London. I'm a northerner and hate those faggots meanwhile you guys are gullible retards for them. That is of course assuming you aren't a troll etc.
>>18305492>Flies the flag of the UK>The same nation that threw Rhodesia & SA under the buslol lmao
>>18305505I'm aware that the IRA sided with the Nazis during the war. That doesn't change the fact that they're communist. IRA sided with Hitler out of having a shared enemy, Britain
>>18305629UK government betrayed Rhodesia and SA
>>18304860>small country needs foreign support to break away from bigger, stronger countrymany such caseswas still actual Irishmen doing the fighting and dying tho.
>>18303619>>says who?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_Northern_Ireland_border_poll
>it's another "irelandfag denies his country supporting commies and islamists to own the brits" threadWe know the drill already man, give it a rest
>>18303591>Brits OUT blacks INCOME IN YOU BLACKS AND TANSCOME FUCK MY ARSEHOLE LIKE A MANSHOW MY WIFE YOUR BBC BEFORE YOU NAIL HERTELL HER HOW MY LITTLE PRICKCOULD NEVER FARE AGAINST YOUR DICKFROM THE ORANGE-YELLOW PLAINS OF TANZANIA
>>18305961Britain has more blacks though? It even covers it up when browns rape British girls, there's police-approved "grooming gangs" and everythingNow tell me, why would Ireland not want to be a part of that?
why was ireland the only part of the united kingdom that decided to fight against the crown?
>>18305965>w-we hate the uk because we're so trad and pro-white
>>18305469>>18305479>>18305480>>18305488>>18305505The very breif period in the 1940s when the IRA could have been said to have had fascist sympathies is mostly due to the fact that the movement had been so utterly shattered by suppression north+south that most of those who remained did indeed begin to align with what certainly looked like the upcoming strongmen of Europe.But the "Irish nationalists inspired by continental fascists" goes right back to the early 1930s. The IRA however spent much longer as a left-leaning group/movement than right leaning one.>>18305950Only Americans and underagefags try to suggest the IRA were not a mostly left-wing group. Irish Republicanism, the ideology which gained Ireland every scrap of freedom it has, was always """left wing.""">>18305966It wasn't.
>>18303617>colonists refuse to be governed by the people they colonized>this should magically make me side with them
Trying to apply a single label to the IRA and its ideology is pointless, because the IRA itself only really had an "ideology" amongst the leadership. The various iterations of it were simply loyal to different leaderships, and thus shaped by them.By the late 1940s many had already abandoned the notion that either Communism or "Capitalism" (usually framed as a British/American ideology) were both against the grain of what was natural for Ireland. The foundations for the split in 1969 were already starting to be put in place at this point; the United Irishman newspaper in 1949 said>Russian Communism is bad>But UK/US capitalism is no better>It is anti-christian to oppose Labour primacy and the rights of workers (May 1949 issue, p2)Then in the early 1950s they honed in on the anti-colonial aspect, criticising British occupation forces in Kenya, criticising the percieved brutalisation of Kenyans by Britain-going on to note that Irishmen who joined the British Army, Navy and Airforce are>"certainly, by membership of those forces, accomplices in their crimes." (January 1954 issue)Then the IRA launched their ill-fated Border Campaign in 1956, followed by the 1957 manifesto which nodded to>unemployment >poverty>foreign exploitationas key reasons they were launching an armed campaign. We know this campaign failed, but that same faction within the IRA post-split went on to say in 1972 that>We are suspending armed military actions (June 1972 issue of United Irishman)>We are ending our campaign to better focus on our political programme, tackling (the same issues as before)This faction of the IRA (Official IRA) was then dwarfed by the Provisional IRA, who had a view of their own-which proved more effective and popular in the end. The IRA isn't one thing or the other, it grew and changed and evolved as Ireland+the world did.
>>18306386As the "Official" wing of the IRA wound down its campaign to seek political gains, the Provisional IRA put out "Freedom Struggle", their 1973 book outlining the birth of the Provisional IRA and their campaign thus far.Toward the end of the book (in the Chapter titled "Road to Victory") the Provisional IRA warns against what they see as several pitfalls for the movement;>Giving up our guns in the hope that we'll be rewarded is stupid (pointed to IRA escalation and the growing "troops out" movement in Britain)>Sectarianism is stupid ("Any man who claims to be a Republicn and gets involved in sectarianism is denying the real mening of Republicanism and has no place in our movement.">Engaging Britain on its own political ground is a waste of time; only a future with no British interference will allow any real democracy>The Republic of Ireland's government are not our friendsThen in the 1980s this shifted again, as Sinn Féin took primacy over the IRA and things like Éire Nua were abandoned.
>>1830644430 years later, when the military stalemate lead to talks between the Provisional IRA and the British Army to be renewed once more, we saw yet another shift.Whereas in the early 1970s the Provisional IRA disparaged the Official IRA for giving up their fight, in 1998 the Provisional IRA came to condemn those threatening THEIR attempt at de-escalating things.The infamous Omagh Bombing in 1998 was widely condemned within the Republican movement; most simply calling it a horrible mistake, with some fringe voices even suggesting it was so insane a move that it had to have been a false-flag.At this stage-while most of the PIRA had been brought along by Sinn Féin to embrace a prospective peace-there was a feeling that some within the IRA were now beyond SF's control-and that another splinter was looming. Sure enough, Sinn Féin and the Provos became the voice of>the fighting has gone on long enough...now is the time to make real on-the-ground changes for a better futurewhilst splinters (who'd become dissidents) clung to the legitimacy of armed resistance.Meanwhile, far-left newspapers such as the Starry Plough-linked to the IRSP and thus the INLA-rejected the Good Friday Agreement entirely as a total failure and surrender to Unionism; the militant left wing movement that had spun out of the control of the IRA entirely now saw Irish Republicanism as inferior to outright Socialism/Communism, and challenged the failings of it through the lens of the Good Friday Agreement "ending" the period of violent upheaval.
It wasn't just Republicanism that was beset with odd, constantly evolving politics though. Ulster Loyalism was forced to wrestle with itself too, especially when their attempt to kill off the Civil Rights movement in the 1960s ballooned far out of their control into the conflict we know as the Troubles. Foundational Loyalist leaders like the UVF's Gusty Spence became disillusioned with the UVF's campaign early on.Following the McGurk's Bar Bombing, Spence condemned what he saw as a growing trend of random violence against Catholic civilians and in the 1970s he was a highy divisive figure within the UVF; many loved him and followed him, and others hated him for what they viewed as an attempt to kill off the military aspect and focus on politics. The likes of Billy Mitchell likewise arrived to a conclusion that the Loyalist campaigns weren't really accomplishing anything, and famous leaders like David Ervine would follow this train of thought.There were Loyalist calls for "Peace with Honour" sort of things that included the release of IRA prisoners, all in the name of peace. They do not get the same attention as Republican equivilants, however, as the Loyalist campaigns were dominated by sectarianism-with actual political goals mostly falling to the wayside.
I find some of the IRA's Volunteer Handbooks really interesting.This is a page from the one issued by GHQ in 1956 as the Border Campaign begins. There's a common trend of drawing a line between (roughly) 1798/the United Irishmen right up to the IRA, but sometimes they'll go further and specifically mention old conflicts between Gaelic rulers and England.The 1956 handbook contains a page like this-talking about the likes of Shane O'Neill or Hugh O'Neill, battles like Yellow Ford or Curlew Pass. The first 5 pages of this handbook are essentially a brief smattering of instances where guerrila warfare has been incredibly effective in the past.
>>18304872
>>18306947
>>18306464>The infamous Omagh Bombing in 1998 was widely condemned within the Republican movementNot outraged enough to give the authorities enough info to convict the bombers right lol>"Mistakes were made"
>>18306963Why would they have done that? Not like either Britain or the Loyalists had ever put out an olive branch.
>>18305911Some of Germanys actual allies never spouted such radical rhetoric, this went much further than just realpolitik. There's also a bit in the article about how the IRA praised Hitler and Mussolini for helping Franco AGAINST the communists.>>18306356It wasn't that brief, the fascist phase of the IRA ended in the 50s at the earliest, though they did moderate a bit when Hitler was no longer around.
>>18306514>successful use of guirrella warfare>successfulyeah being dominated and defeated easily for 400 years really makes you a successful fighterand ulstermen were better guirella fighters anyway, jacobites could do nothing againt enniskilliners who were the greatest warriors in the williamite war
>>18307296The book contains a history of times when guerrilla warfare massively benefitted the Irish, anon, not a fantasy where they magically won all the wars that they lost.I know you only come to these threads to burp up /pol/ or /int/ tier drivel, but you are making yourself look like an even bigger tard than normal.
>>18307307Benefitted them by losing?Wars aren't won by k/d they're won by who conquers and who loses.Irish lost every timeErgo they aren't good fighters. simple as
>>18304887>The Troubles started due to riots caused by Loyalists (often aided by the RUC) attacking the civil rights movement's marches and protestsThe NICRA behind the marches was an IRA front chaired by literal Communist Party members. Not justifying what the response to the marches was, but unionists were absolutely correct they were a political strategy by the IRA to heighten the contradictions and provoke outbreaks of violence that would create the conditions for another IRA armed campaign after the failure of the Border Campaign.
>>18303617>majority of people in Northern Ireland don't want to be unified with Irelandand what would be the score after the expulsion of english colonizers?
>>18307296the cited source specifically mentions guerilla leaders from Ulsterand while it's true most of those guys lost there are degrees of defeat (are you pushovers, or are you a running sore the British have to expend great effort to put down?) and a conquered country could hardly point to guys who drove the bongs out for good, if they had one of those they wouldn't need to fight!
>>18307330Yeah, it benefitted them.>losingThe view of the British Army and more or less everyone but seething retards on 4chan is that the Troubles was in fact a stalemate. The IRA stood down because they did what Sinn Féin told them.>>18307632>muh civil rights are an IRA frontThe opposite actually, the founders of rhe movement openly stated that they wanted it to have nothing to do with Republicanism. With that said>wtf? organised workers and marginalised people are part of a civil rights movement? why?Obviously it had nationalists and Republicans, most of them were Catholic, and most of them therefore had the most to gain from it.I completely empathise with Loyalists at the time being lead down the road to believe it was an IRA front, but in truth everyone saw (and those who were denounced were vindicated) that in reality the issue wasn't ever really the IRA, it was the prospect Catholics getting on an equal footing with Protestants. Remember that the leadership of the IRA were trying to sideline it in favour of the infamous Left-Bloc, it's not like the entire NICRA was merely another front from which they'd attack innocent Northern Ireland.Northern Ireland from 1920s-1960s was a basket case that absolutely warranted a Civil Rights movement.
>>18308015A military tactic being very good isn't undone because the war as a whole wasn't won, obviously.Again, the British Army told everyone themselves; the IRA were absolutely a threat, the Provisional IRA was in their view incredibly effective and incredibly deadly. The ONLY people who pretend otherwise are usually angry teenagers who need to undermine anything and everything that anyone Irish might think is cool.They will also usually bum the Loyalist Paramilitaries, despite the fact that>didn't impact the IRA's campaign>most impressive attack on the IRA was a complete accident>british army regarded them as useless tards>founding members of the new wave of loyalism in the 1960s came to see that the likes of the UVF and UDA were pointless retards as early as the 1970sUnfortunately /his/ will forever be host to a small cohort of faggots who are spun into a rage at the mere mention of Ireland.
>>18306950A stalhelm?
>>18308820>Yeah, it benefitted them.By Ulster still being British?>The view of the British Army and more or less everyone but seething retards on 4chan is that the Troubles was in fact a stalemate. The IRA stood down because they did what Sinn Féin told them.The view of the British army was that the troubles would have been easily won if they stopped being even handed but Brits fought with honour and clemency as always and still won out in the end.>>18308827CopeIf you taigs had been under russian boot instead of british you would have been wiped out in a second. imagine what the russians did to grozny but to the catholic estates of belfast.The british acted with clemency and mercy and were hamstrung but still won despite all of those things.
