Who is the weakest touhou character that could defeat a modern military force in your opinion? Personally I think Yuugi could do it.
>>46650189>innocentsyakuza and innocent are mutually exclusive wordsalso while i can see yuugi tanking bullets, i dont know how well she'd fare against explosives and bombs, at worst she'll get evaporated by a nuke
>>46650189Are we talking about an actual modern army or just a handful of thugs with pistols?
>>46650216She can probably shrug off smaller rounds but I can't see her tanking a .50 BMG or something.
>>4665018990% of characters in gensokyo would losethe only ones i can see standing a chance are utsuho, yuugi, yukari, yorihime, toyohime and eikithe immortal characters like eirin and others also could probably pull it off, if you define "winning" by making the military stalemated
>>46650291I would also probably include Tenshi there since her skin is durable enough that Sakuya's sharp knives can't do anything on herFlandre's ability would also be potentially troublesome to the military, but her biggest weakness is that she's a vampire and has a lot of exploitable weaknesses that would get found out
>>46650189None of them, that's why they had to go into hiding.
>>46650318he said which touhou character, not which youkai characternot every being in the series need belief to have powers or to exist
>>46650332That's fair. I can't help but wonder though, if belief is their source of power then wouldn't revealing themselves to the world in an devastating first strike be the biggest advantage they can give themselves? Like imagine if 9/11 was done by demons popping up in New York and shooting a big evil laser at the towers.
>>46650481theoretically they could, but it depends on if their powers would instantly diminish in the outside world and thus minimize what they can doeither they are too cowardly to do it/consider it too risky or yukari prevents them from revealing themselves to the outside world
>>46650517In the hypothetical where they decide to wage an all out war on the outside world, or at the very least just Japan, I think they would be fairly successful. The world has changed a lot since Gensokyo was created. Everything is more interconnected now. Back then, it would have been fairly easy to bury an urban legend but now everyone has a camera in their pocket and an internet to immediately upload their pictures and videos onto for the world to see. All it would take is one highly publicized assault for a word that can't be taken back to spread and give youkai power greater than they ever had in ancient times.
>>46650189If you go by actual feats, maybe some of the big shots like Yuugi, Kasen, Suika would give pretty much anything short of a full battalion of dudes with high end military equipment total destruction before going down. Like a few A-10 Warthogs would do pretty wellIf you go by Lore-fag wankers, none of them because they’re all Omni-Multiverse level++ who could somehow take on Ultra Instinct Goku and Superman no sweat.
>>46650189Rumia. Just blind everyone and go from there.
>>46650568It would work, but it's also possible that people may call it CGI, that is until those who witnessed the incident firsthand crazily yell out that it's real.
>>46650517>>46650568it would be risky because youkai are under high danger of being redefined and interpreted by abrahamic religions who are basically the top dogs of what constitute modern belief concerning the supernatural and stuff
>>46650588For sure. People do that even now with current wars and tragedies. They just need to keep riding the high of their first attack and press on, revealing themselves to more and more people as they go.>>46650608That might make them unintentionally stronger, given the power Christians attribute to demons. It might however have the side effect of making them more susceptible to Christian methods of dealing with such entities but I doubt it will be too much of a problem in a place like Japan where Christians are few.
>>46650481You should pick another country, because Americans are likely to get a huge murderboner and call for the complete extermination of everything supernatural.
>>46650481Yes, a blitz of unprecedented destruction under forms meant to induce pants shifting fear would compound faith in their favor, but we're not taking into account the youkai, kami, angels, devils, affirmation of science or whatever else alongside the outside worlds humans.
>>46650652>given the power Christians attribute to demonsThat would make them weaker, most Christians believe that demons are just tempters or are already burning in hell, they believe that they can only possess humans and cause sickness and whatnot, the abilities of youkai as we know them go far beyond just those limitations so it would be a downgrade to them
>>46650680It's easy to think that now when they are safe and sound but fear will overtake them the moment they see what they think are demons out in the real world causing actual death and destruction.It would be interesting if they managed to manifest Christ to come and defeat them through this and that's how we get the second coming in this hypothetical world.
>>46650189Yukari via pure political subterfuge and/or physical assassination. I have my doubts with a head on conflict, maybe she could win the first one with ease but the moment she gets recorded and known about...
>>46650695Yeah, assuming enough people start genuinely believing that Christ is coming back in a vehement way now that supernatural beings are physically roaming around, we'd also be dealing with materialist scientists potentially going schizo at such things happening and struggling to find a scientific explanation at what's happening.
>>46650665I like to imagine that cryptids and other creatures of myth would emerge from their hiding places across the world, empowered by the sudden global belief in such entities.
>>46650708It's scary how Yukari, with her gap ability could perfectly assassinate high-ranking and important members of society to make the government collapse thus essentially leading to an anarchy she could take advantage of.
>>46650736Reminds me a bit of this scene from the X-men movie.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLIJ9fys6R8
>>46650723Which may weaken the certainty of science, until rednecks who just so happened to roll the youkai with shotguns and a simple blessing from god."Lord, there be funny lookin freaks out here. I need your help sending them back down to hell!"The youkai would need to play their cards perfectly, for any news of them bleeding likely will compound into them being beatable if that news spreads.
>>46650764The Russian military could certainly become big players seeing as they are one of the few countries that blesses their weapons.
>>46650775>>46650764Magic and technology can coexist, despite contrary belief, this is what the Lunarians were described to have achieved, their civilization is essentially super advanced technology with super advanced magic.
>>46650799Correct, but that's not what the outside world at large believes.
>>46650799They do often say that magic is just technology that we don't understand.
>>46650736Imagine, yukari goes around assassinating big names, gets caught on camera, but becomes praised and heralded accidentally becoming a kami of change and righteousness with the world rooting for her.
Realistically speaking, if you just nuked all of Gensokyo with the entire US arsenal… how many characters would actually survive.
None of them. People like Okina/Yukari could use their teleportation abilities to strike extremely specifically in order to maximize damage, but against an entire military they're fucked. Yuugi won't survive against missiles that can rip tanks in half.This doesn't mention the fact that certain high-level parts of militaries are probably already aware of, and make use of the supernatural.
>>46650859Former hell would probably be safe along with places like the netherworld.
>>46650869I think it would depend on the definition of defeating the military. Would it be enough to assassinate key figures and cripple and chain of command or does the entire military need to be decimated?
>>46650891Crippling the chain of command is essentially decimating the military... depending on which military it is.
I mean, aren’t a lot of Touhou characters like spirits or ghosts? Wouldn’t they just me immune to all weaponry since they aren’t physically there? Be like shooting wind it’s not gonna matter.
>>46650933Our ghosts here are a lot weaker than the ghosts of gensokyo, they run a huge risk of redefinement
>>46650908If it's not about pure destruction then I think Hus like Yukari, Okina, and even Sakuya could definitely pull it off. Others with stealth and subversion oriented powers might be able to do it too, though it might require a little more planning on their part. Mamizou could pose as key figures to get access to the right people to kill them, for example.
>>46650189If we assume they're not weaker than they are in Gensokyo then there's options. If we define "modern" as any first world army then at the very minimum the Prismrivers so long as Lyrica doesn't play her piano, Lunasa can simply make people too depressed to fight. Anyone who's a ghost or phantom has a pretty good shot on account of being intangible to ordinary harm, and in the science driven outside world they're not likely to use anything spiritual in lieu of searching for answers in science. Yacchi's also got a busted ability and combined with political skill she could get a good deal out of it. You don't need raw fighting power or strength, you just need to make them unwilling to continue fighting.>>46650271In that doujin she does take some buckshot point blank, but all it really did was break skin, and she stood still and let him get the shot in.>>46650656Maybe not so much in this current political climate. The public has already been exposed to AI images as "evidence" for things. There's also that our government would coverup anything slightly funny in a heartbeat and make getting actual facts a nightmare in a half. Aliens were also revealed to exist and barely anyone batted an eye. And even if it was a public acknowledgement there would be plenty of people taking "we're at war with supernatural monsters" as the president being senile if they didn't believe so before.>>46650869Not likely direct hits, but hitting them is the tricky part. Missile ordinance for armored targets aren't very good on soft people sized targets simply because it's both a waste and hard to track. Good fucking luck getting a target lock on something that lacks both an EM signature, IR signature, has a small cross section for radar guidance, and can move/fly quickly and unpredictably. Try as you may, you're simply not going to hit Aya.
>>46650975>Aliens were also revealed to exist and barely anyone batted an eyeNue lost before the fight even began....
So which characters could tank a nuclear bomb head-on?
>>46651041Kaguya and Mokou. Reimu can also dodge it with her Iframes if that counts.
>>46651041If you want to survive a nuclear bomb, then you must BECOME the nuclear bomb
>>46651071She won't die from the radiation but can she tank the explosion itself?
>>46651107Just explode harder than the bomb does dummy
>>46650975>Aliens were also revealed to existThey were? I didn't know that.Are they cute? Do they look like cute lolis?
>>46651058Kaguya and Mokou wouldn't die, but the radiation poisonings gonna be a bitch.
>>46651561If the army dudes really want to mess with them, just immobilize the two immortals, put them inside a rocket and either launch them into the sun or into deep space.
>>46651608If you dropped Mokou into a black hole... would she just be fucked forever? Like can she teleport out of it? Because
>>46650189Not a chance to be honest, the only faction in Touhou that is canonically stronger than the Outside World is the Lunar Capital, everything else would get conquered.
>>46651626You reminded me of this doujin.
I think we'll get better answers if we abstract a little.If your 2hu can survive a crossover with the Ace Combat universe, I think it would be safe to say they're going to do just fine in our world.
>>46651669I'd feel bad, but 2 of the immortals are filthy fucking lunarians and the other killed like 1000 people for laughs so RIP Bozo.
>>46650189Every time this question is asked people often underestimate the power of the US military and overestimate the 2hus. In truth, we don't know very much about the actual limits of the characters. Take for example Yukari, her power over boundaries and her gaps are so poorly explained that it allows anyone to just extrapolate and highball her capabilities to the freaking moon, everyone just assumes she can gap anywhere she wants, but we have seen her being unable to enter the moon or heaven without either a specific condition for the former and multiple trips for the latter. Objectively speaking, we only see her effortlessly gap within the small land of Gensokyo and Japan, maybe she needed to use the reflection of the moon to get to the Lunar Capital because of some sort of magic, maybe it was too far away considering how in heaven's case she didn't have to do anything aside from using multiple gaps. What I'm saying is, extrapolating the character's abilities based on what they SHOULD be able to do is bad practice, we should instead focus in what they have been shown or stated to be actually able to do.Now regarding the military. Everyone always focuses on the big guns, but modern war is much more than just how many men with how big of guns you give them, just read a bit on the cold war. The US won't just bomb them, they would poison their food with hallucinogenic drugs, since Youkai can get drunk we know their brains can be affected by chemicals, they would not let them sleep with speakers, they would rain napalm on their lands, they would interrogate prisoners with methods only the most sick could imagine, and they would know to do all of this because their intelligence agency is insane. Aside from the very big guns, of course.And that is if it's against the entire Gensokyo, if a single characters tries it all on her own it'd be even easier. For all we know, even the most resilient Youkai could be taken out by a sniper, let alone more powerful ballistics they have.The only chance the Youkai would have is if she adopted a more terrorist like approach of doing random attacks, but she isn't taking down a military like that.
>>46652040I don't think any 2hu would win in a straight fight. They'd have to be smart about it and as mentioned earlier in the thread, stick to assassinating key figures and destroying strategically important locations rather than meeting the military out and in the open and trying to fight them head on. That's if a single 2hu decided to act alone though. Better question is who would win if all of Gensokyo was united under a single leader that everyone from the most ancient youkai to the weakest fairy respected and trusted to carry them to victory.
>>46650189i think there could be some people out there who would side with the youkai, believing them to be delivering justice against oppressive institutionit is only if they also start eating civilians senselessly that they would turn all of humanity against them, which is a bad idea
>>46652194>it is only if they also start eating civilians senselessly that they would turn all of humanity against themThey would lose some supporters and gain new ones in their place. The past 10 years have shown me that people can be absolutely deranged when it comes to who they throw their support behind.
>>46652133>They'd have to be smart about it and as mentioned earlier in the thread, stick to assassinating key figures and destroying strategically important locations rather than meeting the military out and in the open and trying to fight them head on.Like I mentioned earlier, a more terrorist like method. That said, short of wiping out half of the US, there is no single attack a Youkai can do that would seriously destabilize the country. It is often thought that power is centralized when it really isn't, it doesn't make strategic sense, so there are multiple high security military bases, multiple CIA, FBI, DHS buildings all over the US prepared to pick up the slack if one or multiple falls. There is no single castle, a single all mighty emperor, if tomorrow Sakuya were to kill the president, multiple generals and Area 51, the only real thing she'd have managed to do is make the country angrier. Think about it this way, what can a 2hu do that a terrorist organization couldn't, or better yet, that the USSR couldn't. Real life isn't as simple as the movies where a government falls when its leader dies.They could do more damage targeting the agricultural and economic side of things, but then they would only be hurting the common people as the strain would be passed down to them.Any clever scheme you can think of, I guarantee they already thought of it before. No 2hu is as dangerous as a global superpower.>That's if a single 2hu decided to act alone though. Better question is who would win if all of Gensokyo was united under a single leader that everyone from the most ancient youkai to the weakest fairy respected and trusted to carry them to victory.Then it's even worse since now they have a single HQ. Their only chance is to keep moving as a terrorist organization. But again, together they aren't a bigger threat than other ones the US already fought.
>>46652289I want to see Gensokyo form an alliance with their American equivalent made up of American cryptids and mythological figures.
>>46651669Alison did a sequel where they actually do jump into one
>>46651608>put them inside a rocket and either launch them into the sun or into deep space.They would do no such thing. Their fates would be to be locked up in a lab and experimented on until the hourai elixir can be reverse engineered from their bodies so that they can be taken by the elites.
>>46650574Is that image from VS Battles or something? Because that's some retarded level of extrapolation.I know ZUN just chooses whatever Ability name sounds cool and doesn't bother elaborating further (not that he should since this isn't some battle shonen), but come on, Yukari isn't even city buster level and has gotten her ass handed to her several times, even getting possessed by Mizuchi without noticing.I don't think she's even in the Top 10 of strongest touhous anymore.
>>46650316Wonder how Sakuya fights really go against other 'hus, do they just dig a bit in their skin or rebound but make a cut? However the fuck non-lethality works with that.Flan is more a skill that would end almost any 1vs1 instantly, not sure how much she can use and abuse her skill tho.>>46652040Probs because in fiction any one vs many scenarios is usually balanced the opposite side in most fiction. And numbers even give the advantage of avoiding mutual death which is common irl 1vs1 but barely exist in fiction and le who would win discussions.Magic powers are also badly used usually in fiction and I guess that 2hu fuels imagination a lot since it's pretty vague, but seems pretty meh most of the times.With Yukari's gaps I would say that places like heaven and the moon might have actual barriers or properties to keep her(or yokais like her) away since she just made Flan go to Chireiden without her even noticing since it seems to be pretty far. Oh wait nevermind touhou never gives fixed numbers for anything so trying to figure specifics is pointless.Still probably better than having hard defined powerlevels and those getting thrown in the trash when convenient thoAnother thing that might put up the 2hu's in peoples mind is stuff like the danmaku which is pretty impressive and might have a lethal variant(agains Mokou I guess?).Cases like Okuu make it seem even more absurd (but she isn't using real stars I guess?), her last spellcard even having dam gravity is pretty absurd, how much mass would she even need for that?And Akyuu saying how youkai2strong for how smal Gensokyo is + some early lore + vagueness also might influence the powerwanking.There's also the whole how magic would work/spiritual revivals/memetics in the outside world and so on, shit could get very wild.
Not related to the thread but do youkai have freewill? Are their actions limited by what humans think of them?
>>46652387Worse, a site created by people who think VSB are too conservative with their rankings. VSB’s wiki is slightly less insane. Still absolute bonkers shit l, like if they’re this strong why don’t they just fuckin take over the world
>>46650316>I would also probably include Tenshi there since her skin is durable enough that Sakuya's sharp knives can't do anything on herAnon, a 20mm round hurts a tad bit more than a knife thrown by some lolicon bint.
>>46653170Listen, if you can dodge 霊符「夢想封印」then you can dodge a linear stream of depleted uranium. Like just move to the side lmao, the tracers even tell you where they are and where they're going. Are they supposed to be impressed you can put out a couple piss streams when their daily recreational activity consists of navigating 3d kaleidoscopes?
Feel like people are very massively underrating Touhou characters in this thread.For one, humans in Touhou are not equal to humans in real life. People often forget, but people like Sumireko and Sanae are humans from the outside world. Marisa, the most "normal" human we see a lot of in Touhou, can take massive amounts of punishment... and that's just apparently "danmaku play time".While youkai have amazing powers, humans in Touhou can manifest powers by belief, training, genetics, simple luck, and many other ways.Real life humans, soldiers or otherwise, don't have that luxury. Let's see the the tens of ways Touhou characters would have massive advantages over an entire country's worth of military:- Pretty much every single powered Touhou character can freely fly, and without much known limits to how high they can fly either (see: LoLK). They could literally fly in an area where the vast majority of weapons and planes couldn't fly to and basically orbital bombard an entire country without much issue. In the case of someone like Okuu, literally speaking.- The VAST majority of Touhou spiritual beings are immortal and cannot be permanently killed by physical means. Contrary to popular belief, not just the Hourai immortals are immortal, they're just a different level of immortal. Kasen literally disintegrated at the end of WaHH and and was just fine after. Fairies literally cannot die and will keep reviving as long as their concept still exists. Cirno could literally solo as long as humans haven't somehow found out how to remove the concept of cold.- Insane abstract powers that have little known limits. Many Touhou characters have powers that lack any known limits. People suck Dio off and say Sakuya's him but female, but Dio wishes he had half her powers. She doesn't have a known time limit to her time stop, she can accelerate time, she can summon parallel world versions of herself from another time, she can erase things from time, and more. Hypothetically speaking Sakuya could solo by just stopping time and leisurely stabbing every person whenever she felt like it.- Pretty much every strong weapon humans have that could remotely hurt youkai need a lot of prep time. A "haha nuke" answer won't work when said target could just fly out of the way- Gods and some Youkai can basically replicate themselves continuously, especially gods as they exist more as a concept and their physical bodies are there for communication. It's also why often in a lot of spellcards in the games you often see characters duplicate themselves since it's basically just a normal thing spiritual beings can do, despite not being listed as a power in their omake. Even "low tier" characters like Sekibanki and non youkai like Shimmy can do it.
>>46653447>Marisa, the most "normal" human we see a lot of in Touhou, can take massive amounts of punishment... and that's just apparently "danmaku play time".She also almost got gored by a tiger and was completely incapacitated by a rope. Several youkai were also somewhat scared of minor firearms during WAHH as well. They’re not as durable as you think they were, and there’s also plenty of ways to hurt them spiritually as well (hell, Kasen herself couldn’t regrow her arm once it was cut by a specifically forged blade)
>>46653447>she can summon parallel world versions of herself from another timeWait, when did that happen?
>>46650216>>46650224>>46650271I always thought Oni were kind of bulletproof in the way you can't break their bones or muscle with concussive force, only tear their skin.The most effective gun against Yuugi wouldn't be a BMG, but something like an American 180 that could just flay her alive and make her bleed out.And even then if she brought armor along she could practically wear something more bulletproof than your average APC and still comfortably kick ass.>>46653447Marisa uses spells, and there are outside humans who have been able to handle getting shot dozens of times or get their skull impacted with a railway spike where one of Reimu's needles is enough to do Marisa in.
>>46653447On the other end of the argument, I think you are also underestimating just how insane weapons are these days. If humans armed with bows and spears were able to hunt them so close to extinction that they had to go into hiding in a bubble, imagine what modern humans would be capable of. Youkai powerful enough to stand a chance are a very small minority.
>>46653447>Kasen literally disintegrated at the end of WaHHThat was a projection made by her hand. Though, IIRC Oni have this thing where if their spirits aren't banished they can regenerate a body over time.
>>46653558The Hulk with Wolverine's regeneration would be a fucked up thing to have to fight against.
>>46653447- Some Touhou characters are outright so above what we humans can do it's not even funny. Sagume's contingency plan in case they couldn't fend off Junko was to teleport the entirety of the Lunar Capital on top of Gensokyo. ZUN also mentioned that Sagume would be able to wipe out the entirety of Gensokyo and they wouldn't even notice, suggesting she could do in an instant.We can't cure cancer, meanwhile Eirin can create medicine that can grant anyone (but gods) precognition with the added bonus of making you immortal on basically a whim (the medicine used in LoLK Pointdevice mode). Marisa, an "ordinary" magician, has the mini-Hakkero which is capable of destroying a mountain. This isn't Marisa bragging and lying either, as this was actually mentioned by Rinnosuke. Speaking of, people often forget but-- Various characters in Touhou are from myth, and often have just altered version to said myth. Houyi, the archer that took down multiple suns, exists in Touhou. Said Houyi was killed by Junko in Touhou. Hecate is Hecatia, and well, I'd suggest you research the myth of Hecate some time. There's a reason why ZUN names her the strongest Touhou character. She's a titan, the Greek goddess of magic (among other things), and is the only god besides Zeus to have domain of all realms and be able to freely traverse on them. One infamous mention in Touhou is the Buddha Amitabha, who is even mentioned in the CDs to be bigger the entire universe. In short, if you didn't know, myths can be insane. Okina, Eirin, Sagume, Kokoro, and more.- Touhou characters are pretty fucking fast, certainly magnitudes faster in both perception and speed than a regular human. Sunny, probably one of the weakest characters in the entirety of Touhou, could react and dodge to actual light being thrown back at her. I say "actual" light as it isn't magic light like in some fiction, but actual sunlight being bended towards her. A bullet would basically be a snail in comparison.
>>46653582>Touhou characters are pretty fucking fast, certainly magnitudes faster in both perception and speed than a regular human. Sunny, probably one of the weakest characters in the entirety of Touhou, could react and dodge to actual light being thrown back at her. I say "actual" light as it isn't magic light like in some fiction, but actual sunlight being bended towards her. A bullet would basically be a snail in comparison.Oh god not this versus battle shit again
>>46653582And the sweet irony remains the same, all that strength runs on human faith, and they still ran away to gensokyo.
>>46653447If you think "haha nuke" is the trump card of humanity when it comes to single target elimination, then you should look past the 1940s friend.Any 2hu without very resiliant skin can be taken out by a dude walking past her with an umbrella modified to inject deadly poison. In any other case, same thing but with gas.The geneva conventions allow nukes because even then it was known Very Big Boom was not the most dangereous man can use to kill each other.
>>46653515>She also almost got gored by a tiger and was completely incapacitated by a ropeThing is low-balls like that don't mean much. Shit like that exists in every fiction, no matter how strong the character is. Saitama couldn't kill a single fly. Goku getting hurt by a bullet or being hurt by Chichi/Bulma. This is especially notorious in western comics, where people that destroy planets instantly get beaten by the most ridiculous shit. Here's Thanos losing to a random kid that's not even an actual character.It's more useful to look at them when they're actually fighting at their best than them at their worst.
>>46652289On the contrary, I think some 2hus would be capable of making the Yellowstone super volcano go off which would be a pretty good starting point at irreversibly crippling the US.But something tells me the US being in control of the world is actually to the benefit of Youkai versus a nation gripped by rationalism like Japan. Unlike most developed countries, the Untied States doesn't take reason at face-value, especially when it can conceive of technology that messes with one's perceptions without anyone ever being the wiser.
>>46653607Saying "oh no it's VSBattles shit" isn't really an argument. I fucking hate that site to my core, far more than you do, far longer than you ever have, but not only is it an actual observation, it's consistent. In GFW, Marisa actually only uses a flashlight for Master Spark, but Cirno can dodge it.>>46653610I mean when you're a spiritual creature that tends to be how it goes. Again, spiritual attacks are the bane of most Touhou characters. A bullet to the head would hurt less than running water to a vampire.And humans in Touhou tend to have lot more shit going for them. I fucking wish if there was a menace, a god would bless me with powers to counteract said menace. Gods still exist in the outside world, mind you, just the popular ones. Some youkai can even live there for an extended period of time, like Mamizou.
>>46653673If Sunny was able to dodge light speed projectiles, Reimu wouldn't be capable of touching her from what we know about her reaction times over the course of every manga. If Reimu was capable of reacting at the speed of light, she wouldn't had lost against Yorihime.
>>46653673>>46653610To be fair, the same sand people who drove the Scarlets to Gensokyo managed to fight the strongest military in the world to a stand-still. They might look unimpressive compared to either, but a man with faith and bravery is a dangerous thing that flies in the face of common sense.
>>46653517It's one of her moves in the fighting games.
>>46653682>>46653619But also,>If Reimu was capable of reacting at the speed of light, she wouldn't had lost against Yorihime.Before she even fought, she's pretty much already resigned fighting, even mentioning something along the lines of "villains always lose" referring to themselves. I'm not saying she would win against Yorihime, but she barely even tried.
>>46653582>Some Touhou characters are outright so above what we humans can do it's not even funny. Sagume's contingency plan in case they couldn't fend off Junko was to teleport the entirety of the Lunar Capital on top of Gensokyo. ZUN also mentioned that Sagume would be able to wipe out the entirety of Gensokyo and they wouldn't even notice, suggesting she could do in an instant.Same Lunarians also couldn’t fend of an invasion of normal ass astronauts, and even implied that human weaponry was impressive. Those fuckers also BTFO all of Gensokyo without trying so imagine what we could do. >Marisa, an "ordinary" magician, has the mini-Hakkero which is capable of destroying a mountain. This isn't Marisa bragging and lying either, as this was actually mentioned by Rinnosuke.Exaggeration at best, it’s literally never been shown to be anywhere near that powerful in any depiction throughout the series. >Touhou characters are pretty fucking fast, certainly magnitudes faster in both perception and speed than a regular human. Sunny, probably one of the weakest characters in the entirety of Touhou, could react and dodge to actual light being thrown back at her. I say "actual" light as it isn't magic light like in some fiction, but actual sunlight being bended towards her. A bullet would basically be a snail in comparison.This is a level of wank so ridiculous it literally breaks Touhou canon, Marisa herself stated that nothing in Gensokyo moves faster than light in her fight with Torihime, let alone a bottom tier Youkai who Marisa would easily outmatch
>>46653713What if someone deflects the Final Spark with a big mirror?
>>46652040The problem is there are certain retards (like >>46653447 or VS battles denizens) who believe that if there's a vague ability stated in the character profile, this somehow means that they are capable of everything that can be pulled under the description of that ability. This is completely illogical on its face. "Little-known limits" does not mean "no limits exist", but instead "you should derive those limits yourself from existing canon facts". And suddenly it turns out touhous are much less powerful that they are powerwanked.Also people frequently overestimate the importance of "ability" line in profiles. They tend think of it as a singular, discrete superpower, when it is one only about half the time at best. Just as frequently it is just a description of what a character is capable of - the most clear-cut example is Marisa - it's in the core of her character that she has no innate magic ability, and "ability to use magic" simply refers to what she has learned. It can also be a common characteristic of that entire youkai species (say, Satori), or even literally a mockery (Kogasa). Conversely, people forget about any other things characters are capable of, like how Yukari is a powerful onmyodo and not just "manipulates borders".>>46653515>Several youkai were also somewhat scared of minor firearms during WAHH as wellHuh, that's new, I really need to read WaHH already (also FS at least). This may be just the fear of the unknown from them, strictly speaking, so more context would be welcome Also, one thing nobody seems to have mentioned - what is "defeat"? People seem to focus on simply killing the other side, but that's not how it's normally defined in military tactics. Defeat is, generally, failure to accomplish one's objectives, and that is very different from simple body count. Reimu may be as much invincible as she wants to, but I doubt she could stop even a company, much less a battalion, with her anti-youkai-geared barrages from advancing and capturing target positions. Conversely, Kaguya is not in the highest league in direct combat (she should be about equal to Mokou, who just burns people on a personal scale), but if she could trap an aircraft carrier in the loop like in Eientei corridor, this could be a game changer on an operational level even when nothing is destroyed.
>>46653447>A "haha nuke" answer won't work when said target could just fly out of the wayHow about "haha, a hundred nukes with a trajectory calculated to create an inescapable circle of hellfire fired from hundreds of miles away."Because they totally could do that, multiple times in fact.
>>46653713Lunarians ARE Outside World humans. Mostly. Some of them are gods as well, but whenever the gods aren't propping them up the Watatsuki sisters are no more durable than any earthling hermit.And the US is impressive because it went from barely being able to fly to getting to the Moon in the span of a single human lifetime. That's lightning fast compared to what the Lunarians can do, but they have both a far smaller population, a far more conservative population, and had no reason to innovate when all their needs were met.Why invent the car when your great, great grandfather got space folding after making a deal with a demon? Sure, it means you won't have anything like a tank to fight with, but who are you going to fight? Everything is at peace.
>>46653734Reimu at the very least can avoid it by just phasing out of reality. That's just for the initial blast though, I don't know if she has any way to deal with the subsequent radiation.
>>46653713>Same Lunarians also couldn’t fend of an invasion of normal ass astronauts, and even implied that human weaponry was impressive. Those fuckers also BTFO all of Gensokyo without trying so imagine what we could do.You really think the Lunarians got "beat" by astronauts by the astronauts literally going beating their ass up and not the Lunarians being deathly afraid and "poisoned" by impurity?If you didn't know, Lunarians are humans but went to the moon some years ago to become immortal. They used some concept regarding purity in order to turn themselves immortal, and had to isolate themselves from the rest of everything to keep being immortal.Basically, impurity could remove their immortality, so they will basically just run the fuck away from it if they can. It's why they "lost" from an "invasion". It's also why Sagume wanted to teleport the Lunar Capital to Gensokyo instead of just some random part of Earth, because Gensokyo is already isolated like them.And Lunarians being remotely impressed by human technology doesn't mean much when they have femtofiber ropes and a fan that could destroy an entire forest at the atomic level with a single swing.Once again, spiritual abstract shit > physical attacks when dealing with the vast majority of Touhou characters.>Exaggeration at best, it’s literally never been shown to be anywhere near that powerful in any depiction throughout the series.Because it's Danmaku. Rinnosuke doesn't really have much reason to exaggerate.>This is a level of wank so ridiculous it literally breaks Touhou canon, Marisa herself stated that nothing in Gensokyo moves faster than light in her fight with TorihimeAnd yet Yorihime proves her wrong anyway
>>46653734You seem like a /k/ommando, but while real life weaponry is scary, someone that could stop time indefinitely is incomprehensible, and someone that could shoot down suns with a bow and arrow is downright absurd.
>>46653765>You really think the Lunarians got "beat" by astronauts by the astronauts literally going beating their ass up and not the Lunarians being deathly afraid and "poisoned" by impurity?So what you’re saying is humans are so deadly to the Lunarians that three dudes existing was enough to get the entire capital to shit their pants? Not exactly very fuckin threatening are they, femtofiber and atomic fans included >Because it's Danmaku. Rinnosuke doesn't really have much reason to exaggerateThere’s been plenty of times throughout the series that there’s been no Danmaku involved and not a single character is even shown to be skyscraper levels of strong, Reimu gets intimidated by a storm and tigers, it’s either total exaggeration or Rinnosuke is full of shit and said if to impress Marisa because I see evidence otherwise. >And yet Yorihime proves her wrong anywayShe literally doesn’t, she just reflects it. If she was actually fast enough to dodge it, she’d have y’know… dodged it.
>>46653729>who believe that if there's a vague ability stated in the character profile, this somehow means that they are capable of everything that can be pulled under the description of that ability.But I'm not saying that, retard. Literally everything I've said in this thread is something mentioned or shown in actual Touhou. I haven't mentioned Yukari wankery or any other shit VSB loves.
>>46653812>So what you’re saying is humans are so deadly to the Lunarians that three dudes existing was enough to get the entire capital to shit their pants? Not exactly very fuckin threatening are they, femtofiber and atomic fans includedAh, jeez, I wonder what I mentioned in what you just replied:>Once again, spiritual abstract shit > physical attacks when dealing with the vast majority of Touhou characters.They will avoid as much risk to their immortality and society as much as possible. If every time you killed a rat, your lifespan decreased by 10 years, would you kill a rat?>There’s been plenty of times throughout the series that there’s been no Danmaku involved and not a single character is even shown to be skyscraper levels of strongNo danmaku might be involved, but literally everyone in Gensokyo is bound by the spellcard rules. Suika punching Marisa right square in the face is still spellcard rules, because they're all holding back. Have you not read how Gensokyo works?Also, lolhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7zNJivj8UE>She literally doesn’t, she just reflects it. If she was actually fast enough to dodge it, she’d have y’know… dodged it.Why would she dodge it when she could reflect it back? The latter seems a lot more useful.
>>46653765>Rinnosuke doesn't really have much reason to exaggerate.Ah yes, Rinnosuke, the guy known for his rational thinking and measured conclusions, only working with proven facts and never inventing any bullshit out of thin air.>And yet Yorihime proves her wrong anyway...Marisa literally pulls a long ass battle speech and screams "Master Spark" before firing. Even I could position a sword right before me in time with such an advance warning, much less Yorihime (it's just I can't cut light)>>46653789>someone that could stop time indefinitely>indefinitelyWho, for example?>someone that could shoot down suns with a bow and arrowWho, for example? Because when we're not talking about suns like actual stars but whatever spiritual entities that will have to be called "suns" in the Houyi myth (because, you know, there's no fucking physical traces of Solar system being a ten-star system for billions of years until fucking 3000 years ago), that feat suddenly becomes much more measured. Even before you understand it's a fucking story, not something that happened on screen, and it does not have to be literally true.
>>46653861>Ah yes, Rinnosuke, the guy known for his rational thinking and measured conclusions, only working with proven facts and never inventing any bullshit out of thin air.Fine, you could believe that Rinnosuke was irrationalizing something he created himself. We can agree to disagree, but the statement is there.>Who, for example?Sakuya, and literally Kaguya's "eternity" part of power.>Who, for example? Because when we're not talking about suns like actual stars but whatever spiritual entities that will have to be called "suns" in the Houyi myth (because, you know, there's no fucking physical traces of Solar system being a ten-star system for billions of years until fucking 3000 years agoI like how you're trying to rationalize myth as if Touhou was entirely based on scientific papers and research, and pulled out of your ass that they were some kind of metaphorical suns instead of whatever was on the Chinese Creation Mythology.>Who, for example? Because when we're not talking about suns like actual stars but whatever spiritual entities that will have to be called "suns" in the Houyi myth (because, you know, there's no fucking physical traces of Solar system being a ten-star system for billions of years until fucking 3000 years agoExcept it's part of Junko and Hecatia's backstory, whom we literally meet in the games.
Man, if aliens were to look at humans the same way some anons here look at 2hus, they'd assume humans can walk eternally thanks to their ability to regenerate stamina while moving, thus being able to create enough energy to power up a laser cannon and take out earth.
>>46653890He shot down Apollo, not the actual fucking sun you moron.It's meant to be read as Houyi killing the god of the sun, not him literally shooting down a star, it is quite literally written in the Omake.
>>46653892Reminds me of these old copypasta for a while back. Yeah I know, faggy Tumblr image.
>>46653855>They will avoid as much risk to their immortality and society as much as possible. If every time you killed a rat, your lifespan decreased by 10 years, would you kill a rat?You’re argument was that the Lunarians are so far beyond humanity it’s not even funny… but they are also so deathly afraid of humans that they won’t even risk a fight with 3 of them literally invading their land. So humans could totally kick their asses without much sweat by dumping corpses on their land. lol lmao And if rats were so untouchable you couldn’t even kill one of them without knocking a decade off if human life, humanity would probably be extinct and rats would rule the world. > Also, lolWow, a non-canon ending from a game that’s loosely tied to modern Touhou canon anyway, to the point the main characters fucking hair ain’t even the same color. Got me there. >Why would she dodge it when she could reflect it back? The latter seems a lot more useful.Why go to the trouble of summoning a god to reflect something you could easily sidestep with no issue. The reflection wasn’t even useful it just flew in a random direction and exploded.
>>46653892Presumably there's a limit, but we don't see that unless it's required by plot. We have no idea what their maximum effort looks like. So it's easy to extrapolate and say it's plausibly to do herculean feats back to back. There's also magic and other poorly explained things we don't understand past 'it's magic' and it just works. Let your imagination run wild because ZUN didn't put the safety guards up.In your alien analogy, they haven't observed them enough to prove them otherwise just like we with 2hus. They aren't watching them all day to see if one gets tired from walking for a while, because it's boring and they (we) have short attention spans and want to see "THE PLOT".
>>46653901You mean this?>Because, you see, Chang'e's husband was the person who shot down the suns (ie. Apollo). In the first place, Hell would be unable to exist without the sun. Without strong light, the darkness of Hell would weaken too.Yeah, no, It's not "He shot down Apollo", it's he shot down the suns i.e Apollo. Go read the chinese creation myth, it's kind of easy to search. 10 people become literal suns, Earth's burning, Hou Yi shoots them down. In Touhou, Apollo becomes one of the said suns.
>>46653812I will say Marisa at least was able to survive getting smashed into a tree with enough force to cause it to snap without much more than a sore back, and when she got actually got the jump on a tiger she killed it and skinned it.
>>46653914>You’re argument was that the Lunarians are so far beyond humanity it’s not even funny… but they are also so deathly afraid of humans that they won’t even risk a fight with 3 of them literally invading their land. So humans could totally kick their asses without much sweat by dumping corpses on their land. lol lmaoI like how you misunderstand the argument so much it's kind of funny. There's literally a pretty popular sci-fi movie called Signs where space-faring aliens get their ass beat because water's poison to them. Similar shit, except it's not even something you could see like water, but something as abstract as purity and the existence of life itself.>And if rats were so untouchable you couldn’t even kill one of them without knocking a decade off if human life, humanity would probably be extinct and rats would rule the world.Thanks for agreeing with the concept and why Lunarians won't touch humanity.>Wow, a non-canon ending from a game that’s loosely tied to modern Touhou canon anyway, to the point the main characters fucking hair ain’t even the same color. Got me there.I like how you immediately turned it into being non-canon, except ZUN has already said PC-98 is canon long ago.Also, if you didn't know, Touhou 18.5 is still canon despite Marisa having different hair and eye color.>Why go to the trouble of summoning a god to reflect something you could easily sidestep with no issue. The reflection wasn’t even useful it just flew in a random direction and exploded.Geez, I wonder if reflecting a weapon back to the enemy is is more useful than dodging it. I don't know what you're trying to say here. It missed, but if I had the free choice to either reflect a bullet potentially back to the shooter or just dodge it, I would choose the former pretty much 100% of the time.
>>46653926Except we do know their limitsRemilia can “control fate” yet got her ass kicked by Yorihime no sweatYukari can “control all boundaries” but couldn’t reach the moon without preparation and got her ass kicked by the Lunarians twice Reimu is destined to “always win” but couldn’t beat either Yorihime or Yuuma and shit her pants over one (1) vengeful spiritThey clearly have very reasonable limits (and yeah, required by plot means literally their limits as defined by the story) and they are nowhere near the wankfest seen above.
>>46653890>Sakuya>indefinitelyStill waiting for proof.>Kaguya's "eternity" part of power.We don't know what Kaguya's ability actually does. Yet she never uses it for combat on screen (there's one spellcard period based on it - End of Imperishable Night where it's used just to break Eirin's spell), and from that as well as other three instances of its usage in the whole canon (Hourai elixir, Eientei anti-impurity field, the infinite corridor) we can conclude she can't stop time and it's something more complex.>I like how you're trying to rationalize mythAnd I like how you apparently take all myths on face value just because it's muh mythology not science. Touhou deeply diverges from its original sources and offers its own interpretation of basically any myth that Zun takes in into his setting. And there's still only one Gensokyo, only one objective truth, and just like anywhere, all sources must be taken into consideration with due critical thinking. The only difference of Touhou with the real world is that myths actually contain hints at the truth instead of being fully made up stories.>part of Junko and Hecatia's backstory>something that happened on screenYou can't see the difference, do you?
>>46653927Very interesting history lesson, now show where in Touhou it is stated that Houyi can shoot down literal stars and not Apollo. Because you're making a whole lot of assumptions, lemme try it, how about Houyi shot Apollo while jerking off in a mountain. Dumb, right? Well it holds the same canon weight as claiming Touhou is Solar System level because of a reference to a legend, and not even a direct one at that, but one with a caveat.
>>46653970>Remilia can “control fate” yet got her ass kicked by Yorihime no sweatYorihime was literally about to kill them, but they goaded her into using Danmaku and Spellcard Rules instead. No "fate controlling" was done that day. >Yukari can “control all boundaries” but couldn’t reach the moon without preparation and got her ass kicked by the Lunarians twiceIf you didn't already realize, Yorihime is Reimu but better and Toyohime is Yukari but better. Yukari and Toyohime have very similar, if not outright the same powers. Even the Lunar Capital and Gensokyo are parallels. Toyohime maintains the boundary of the Lunar Capital so that it's incredibly difficult to get inside.>ReimuWhere the fuck did you get Reimu is destined to always win lmfao, I feel like you misunderstand what her power isIf you're going to deny and say wank at least read nigga
>>46653965>I like how you misunderstand the argument so much it's kind of funny. There's literally a pretty popular sci-fi movie called Signs where space-faring aliens get their ass beat because water's poison to them. Similar shit, except it's not even something you could see like water, but something as abstract as purity and the existence of life itself.Yeah, and the Signs Aliens were little bitches that got their asses kicked by a bunch of rednecks? You’re point? The Lunarians aren’t a threat to humanity anymore than the Youkai are, less so even. >Thanks for agreeing with the concept and why Lunarians won't touch humanityYeah, exactly, if Rats were godlike creatures who could instantly wipe out 10 years off a persons life if they were killed, they would be far superior to humans and easily be able to take over. Make the Bubonic Plague look like a joke. In your hypothetical you are literally saying the rats (us) would be better than the people (lunarians). >I like how you immediately turned it into being non-canon, except ZUN has already said PC-98 is canon long ago.Also, if you didn't know, Touhou 18.5 is still canon despite Marisa having different hair and eye color.It’s literally loose canon that is ignored if it contradicts the main series. Seeing how that ending is literally a non canon joke ending to an already barely canon game… I’d say it means nothing>Geez, I wonder if reflecting a weapon back to the enemy is is more useful than dodging it. I don't know what you're trying to say here. >It missedReal fuckin useful
>>46653926This is a nice and healthy thought to have in any thread besides the one where we are supposed to speculate the limits of 2hu characters against an army.
>>46653992It's not history, it's myth. I know it's hard to believe, but Touhou tends to be mythological in nature. A shock, I know.I like how you're saying I'm making assumptions when you're the one making more assumptions.I'm basing my argument on the myth that a large part of LoLK is based of and something that's actually mentioned. 10 suns, 9 suns shot down, 1 sun remained, which is what our sun is now.Junko exists, and killed Hou Yi, who also existed. Hecatia exists. Apollo exists. Chang'e exists. All their stories line up, and it's even outright mentioned out of game in Omake and not just passed down in legend like in an Akyuu book.But oh, no apparently everything's just "assumption" because we didn't see it firsthand. What a joke.You're basing it out of "I don't want Solar System 2hus because it seems absurd so I'm gonna make exaggerated claims like they're masturbating to make it seem more absurd".
>>46654030Show me proof these suns are suns(massive balls of burning gas) rather than suns(a symbolic represantion of the light that comes out every morning present in every mythos, like say, mentioning one of the suns being shot down was Apollo, a god son of Zeus, and not Helios the actual fuking sun).You can't because you are unable to grasp things in an abstract way. Do you think ZUN intended the Omake to be read as "Houyi shot down literal stars a couple of thousands years ago" or "Houyi killed one of Hecatia's family who is linked with the sun."Because that i.e. shows that ZUN took the time to make his intentions clear.
>>46654002>You’re point? My fucking god, you dense little motherfucker. My point is what I mentioned at the start of this little thread, that spiritual threats are far more dangerous to most 2hus than physical ones.Superman could be weakened to a point of helplessness by a single rock. That doesn't mean he can't just punch the earth for it to become dust.If Lunarians lost their immortality due to their weakness, then they would lose their special little xenophobe society.>In your hypothetical you are literally saying the rats (us) would be better than the people (lunarians).I like how you misunderstand so much you prove my point. The idea is about the balancing of risk vs reward. Would you risk getting rid of a rat that trespassed in your property when killing it would lessen your lifespan, or would you just ignore it? Lunarians ignore it and run away from danger, because the risk for now far outweighs the reward.So what do they do? They hid from all the rats instead of confronting them.>It’s literally loose canon that is ignored if it contradicts the main seriesGood thing Touhou 1 doesn't contradict much of Windows Touhou. And fact of the matter is that, bad non-canon ending or not, it's still something that could have happened if the Yin-Yang Orb did whatever it did on the ending, since it's actually part of the game and not just a random hypothetical.>Real fuckin usefulIt seems like the point misses you more than the laser missed Marisa.
>>46654059>Show me proof these suns are suns(massive balls of burning gas) rather than suns(a symbolic represantion of the light that comes out every morning present in every mythos, like say, mentioning one of the suns being shot down was Apollo, a god son of Zeus, and not Helios the actual fuking sun).Because of the fact that the 1 sun that wasn't shot down exists in Touhou.Unless now you want to say that the 1 sun that wasn't shut down was just different somehow?
>>46653999>Yorihime was literally about to kill them, but they goaded her into using Danmaku and Spellcard Rules instead. No "fate controlling" was done that day.So what you’re saying is her fate control was completely worthless against Yorihime and they literally had to weasel their way out of Death but still lost, instead of her manipulating fate to have her achieve her goal of invading the moon. Pretty inconvenient I’d say >If you didn't already realize, Yorihime is Reimu but better and Toyohime is Yukari but better. Yukari and Toyohime have very similar, if not outright the same powers.Even the Lunar Capital and Gensokyo are parallels. Toyohime maintains the boundary of the Lunar Capital so that it's incredibly difficult to get inside.Meaning that Yukari is very clearly limited if someone more powerful than her can totally negate her all powerful boundary manipulation. Again, clearly defined limitation of her powers. > Where the fuck did you get Reimu is destined to always win lmfao, I feel like you misunderstand what her power isIf you're going to deny and say wank at least read niggaIt’s literally a part of her lore that’s she’s so damn lucky that the odds are forever in her favor.
>>46654086>Unless now you want to say that the 1 sun that wasn't shut down was just different somehow?That one little thought seems less plausible to you than the bullshit with immense consequences that you're trying to paint to us?As an aside, not to be taken as an argument but it's just funny>Superman>fucking SignsReal quality franchises you keep bringing up
>>46654088>So what you’re saying is her fate control was completely worthless against Yorihime and they literally had to weasel their way out of Death but still lost, instead of her manipulating fate to have her achieve her goal of invading the moon.Doesn't mean much when her fate manipulation won't work when you're talking about a character who's often touted as a Mary Sue due to how much bullshit powers she has. It's like saying Zeus ain't shit because he's wary of and could possible be beaten by Nyx. Not like Remi's akin to Zeus, but you get what I mean>Again, clearly defined limitation of her powers.A defined limitation is when I can't lift a 1000KG car because my strength doesn't allow me to, but I can lift a dumbbell that's 15KG. That's clear with real stats to back it up.When you're comparing Yukari to someone that's even MORE abstract and MORE ill-defined than Yukari herself then it doesn't mean much beyond Toyohime > Yukari. It doesn't say that much about limit considering how little we know of both sisters outside of just they used to be the strongest 2hus around.>ReimuLuck is a big part of her skillset, but it fluctuates a whole lot depending on a variety of factors, especially including her mood. That's also part of her lore. It's even mentioned that Reimu sometimes loses in the games and demands rematches.
>>46654086How about, and I know this sounds crazy, the myth the characters are loosely based on is, in fact, not the absolute canonical way things happened. In touhou? No way right! Never has this series borrowed elements from myths but not every detail, everyone knows Kaguya already had those items, the fisherman who went to the Dragon's palace was always crygenically frozen and Ibaraki Douji's arm became its own person. So it is I who is wrong in, instead of claiming there were ten literal actual suns, assuming that there were other "suns" i.e. Apollo which Houyi shot down.I wonder what Amaterasu thinks of so many of the literal suns being shot down, considering she exists in the setting.Idiot, why are you so adamant in using the wildest interpretation of the Omake when the series has a habit of playing fast and loose with its source materials? Hell, the amount of suns are not even stated yet you use the original Chinese myth as some smoking gun.
>>46654078> My fucking god, you dense little motherfucker. My point is what I mentioned at the start of this little thread, that spiritual threats are far more dangerous to most 2hus than physical ones.And my point retard is that if they’re so spiritually weak to us humans, then their “superiority” doesn’t mean shit in a fight. They literally don’t stand a chance in a fight against humanity, which is the entire point of this thread. >I like how you misunderstand so much you prove my point. The idea is about the balancing of risk vs reward. Would you risk getting rid of a rat that trespassed in your property when killing it would lessen your lifespan, or would you just ignore it? Lunarians ignore it and run away from danger, because the risk for now far outweighs the reward.So what do they do? They hid from all the rats instead of confronting them.If you have to hide from something because of how much mere contact with it would absolutely devastate your very existence… you are submitting to its superiority. You don’t hide from something that you can easily beat. The Lunarians hide like little bitches because they are inferior to humanity despite their oh so precious advancements. Ergo, we win. >Good thing Touhou 1 doesn't contradict much of Windows Touhou. And fact of the matter is that, bad non-canon ending or not, it's still something that could have happened if the Yin-Yang Orb did whatever it did on the ending, since it's actually part of the game and not just a random hypothetical.Touhou 1 if anything is the biggest departure from anything else the series has done, I mean for fucks same it ain’t even the same genre of game and none of the characters besides Reimu even show up again or are mentioned in any further Touhou games (outside of fanservice cameos) And no, it being in an ending doesn’t mean it’s actually a hypothetical to the story. Unless you think a fuckin Shiba actually controls Silent Hill 2. >It seems like the point misses you more than the laser missed Marisa.No the point is that you’re making up some headcanon reason to try to justify why the supposedly FTL character isn’t actually FTL. It’s conjecture at best, point is that no one in Touhou is Lightspeed, et alone some random look youkai.
>>46654098>That one little thought seems less plausible to you than the bullshit with immense consequences that you're trying to paint to us?No, yours is just an assumption, mine is just based on the myth LoLK was based out of.>Real quality franchises you keep bringing upYeah, because when I make comparisons, I try to make them as niche as possible, like comparing Touhou to the Passion of Joan Arc , Voltes V, and Dubliners instead, because that my friend is culture and sophistry.
>>46654129> So it is I who is wrong in, instead of claiming there were ten literal actual suns, assuming that there were other "suns" i.e. Apollo which Houyi shot down.Because, in your own words, you're the one making all sorts of assumptions. I'm interpreting them as they are. Read your post and tell me how many assumptions there is there.It's that simple. A habit of doing something doesn't always mean it is the ironclad rule that is never broken. I've already said it isn't 1:1 as, believe it or not, Apollo doesn't exist in the Chinese myth.But there has not been a single mention in Touhou that, in fact, the sun is actually some guy that's just real bright and not the actual sun. Or everyone else was a guy that's real bright except the actual sun.
>>46654141Funny how you didn't answer this:>Do you think ZUN intended the Omake to be read as "Houyi shot down literal stars a couple of thousands years ago" or "Houyi killed one of Hecatia's family who is linked with the sun."Because doing so would destroy your sad excuse of an argument Mr. Culture.The powerwanker does not know the intent behind the lines, for he has autism and takes thing literally.
>>46654126>Doesn't mean much when her fate manipulation won't work when you're talking about a character who's often touted as a Mary Sue due to how much bullshit powers she has. It's like saying Zeus ain't shit because he's wary of and could possible be beaten by Nyx. Not like Remi's akin to Zeus, but you get what I meanNot even getting into the fact that nothing in the story implies that Yorihime is blocking the fate manipulation (she’s simply kicking ms bullshit fates ass) but even if that he the case it once again shows that her abilities has limits and aren’t so nebulous we can just assume that they can be as strong as they want. >Luck is a big part of her skillset, but it fluctuates a whole lot depending on a variety of factors, especially including her mood. That's also part of her lore. It's even mentioned that Reimu sometimes loses in the games and demands rematches.My point exactly, the text would argue that Reimu floats through life without a care and can just win every match by sheer luck alone, but clearly that isn’t true by the games themselves. So trying to argue that Touhou abilities are so inconclusive they could be as strong as we desire is wrong because it’s clear they aren’t even that great in universe.
>>46654131>And my point retard is that if they’re so spiritually weak to us humans, then their “superiority” doesn’t mean shit in a fight>You don’t hide from something that you can easily beat.Except a human can still kill a rat pretty easily, they just lose lifespan after.Is the point getting put in your head yet?I like how you're going for 4th wall shit like genre changing in your argument lmao. Spoiler alert, the Touhou fighting games are canon too. Just so you know.>And no, it being in an ending doesn’t mean it’s actually a hypothetical to the story.A 4th wall break ending is not remotely the same as a bad ending. Disgaea has both bad ends and gag ends, and bad endings are often a clear indication of what characters can do.>No the point is that you’re making up some headcanon reason to try to justify why the supposedly FTL character isn’t actually FTL.It's not headcanon when we see it happening, but I guess we can agree to disagree.
>>46652304American crypids probably don't need a Gensokyo because the US isn't gripped enough by rationalism to deprive them of belief. They even say that kappa live in Hawaii.
>>Do you think ZUN intended the Omake to be read as "Houyi shot down literal stars a couple of thousands years ago" or "Houyi killed one of Hecatia's family who is linked with the sun.Ah, so you want to argue semantics like a 6th grade lit teacher and why something was worded this way instead of the other?If I say it was intended to be read as "Houyi shot down literal stars a couple of thousands years ago" because it was the actual myth, what would be your answer, Mr. read between the lines-san?
>>46654172Damn, are the people of the US really that comparatively kooky?
>>46654166>Not even getting into the fact that nothing in the story implies that Yorihime The story does imply, however, that Yorihime has so many powers at her disposal considering that she can summon the myriad gods at her disposal at will. Is it proven one of them counter Fate Manip? No. Is it feasible? Abso-fucking-lutely. Confirming to the cycle of references because it's just fun at this point, she's like that one character from Re:Zero, Reinhardt.Also, it's never stated that Remi uses her powers at any point as well. In fact, the only time it was ever mentioned to be used was the meteor in BAiJR, and even that was kept as nebulous as possible.>So trying to argue that Touhou abilities are so inconclusive they could be as strong as we desire is wrong because it’s clear they aren’t even that great in universe.But I'm not trying to argue that. I am, however, arguing what is shown. Sakuya has been mentioned multiple times to clean the entire SDM while time is stopped and that she more or less does the entire work by herself in maintaining the place. Is it an infinitely long time stop? Maybe, maybe not: but it's long enough that she can clean an entire mansion while time is stopped, and she can stop time multiple times without needing to rest at all in 6.It's an inference. It's why I said indefinite not infinite above, but its definitely a huge amount of time, far more than what someone like Dio could do.
>>46654176Ah yes, because the way something is worded is semanthics. Words have no meaning said Mr. Culture. ZUN going out of his way to clarify what he means when he says "suns" is like describing the curtains are blue.Let me word it a different way, which do you find more plausible:-ZUN loosely tying a myth to a character's backstory in a way that would fit in his established world, like say, the fisherman in CiLR.-ZUN confirming there were ten suns, actual suns, not metaphorical suns, actual suns which Houyi shot down, carrying with them all the implications of such a feat.Your argument hinges on the fact that Touhou's version of the myth is the same as the one of legends. An assumption backed by no facts other than only one sun existing, which is at the same time proven by mere assumption of the legend having happened the way the Chinese story says.How do you know the one sun that wasn't shot down isn't special in some way? How do you know the other suns were actual suns? How do you know there were ten? You can't know for sure, only speculate. And speculation is all you have for your claim of Touhou's supposed power level, not a mere supporting, sensible guess, rather an outlandish reach with insane implications and would mean such a departure from the series' usual style it would put Yorihime marrying her nephew to shame. That is the basis for your argument.Tell me then, how is it more wrong to assume the series continued doing what it always did? Changing details from the myth to fit the amalgamation of legends ZUN has created in a somewhat coheisive way.In other words, there being multiple actual suns is one of the most actually retarded takes I've ever seen in this board.
>>46654186The US has an enormous population compared to Japan, is highly religious, and generally has more open-minded and bold mindsets than other places.
>>46654318lol>because the way something is worded is semanthics.I think you should do a quick google search what semantics mean, Mr. Read Between the Lines.>ZUN going out of his way to clarify what he means when he says "suns"He didn't go out of his way to mean shit, he just said i.e. Apollo meaning one of the said suns was Apollo. One of the suns was also Junko's son, by the way. In fact, the fact that he said "suns" instead of just Apollo or even just "sun" instead of plural is more damning than whatever mental gymnastics you're trying to pull here.>ZUN loosely tying a myth to a character's backstory in a way that would fit in his established world, like say, the fisherman in CiLR.>ZUN confirming there were ten suns, actual suns, not metaphorical suns, actual suns which Houyi shot down, carrying with them all the implications of such a feat.Both aren't exclusive.>Your argument hinges on the fact that Touhou's version of the myth is the same as the one of legends. It's not. Junko also isn't Hou Yi's wife in the myth, but her character is instead part of another chinese myth that ZUN combined with the chinese creation myth. My argument doesn't hinge on that.>. An assumption backed by no facts other than only one sun existingAn "assumption" backed by what is written in the omake and what is shown in the games, like Junko because being vengeful her son was also one of the suns that were shot down.I'm not assuming some kind of nebulous curvature of the myth because others have done it before (except not fully, just like Chang'e's myth), so in this part that I have personally focused on it must be different from the myth because I don't want it to be. Which is what you're doing.>How do you know the one sun that wasn't shot down isn't special in some way? How do you know the other suns were actual suns? How do you know there were ten? You can't know for sure, only speculate. And speculation is all you have for your claim of Touhou's supposed power level, not a mere supporting, sensible guess, rather an outlandish reach with insane implications and would mean such a departure from the series' usual style it would put Yorihime marrying her nephew to shame. That is the basis for your argument.So your argument is based around "BUT HOW DO YOU KNOW?"Ok.How do you know Remilia's name isn't actually Remilia but something else? She's lied before. Maybe she's not even a vampire, but just an oni pretending to be one.How do you Akyuu isn't making literally everything up in the books? How do you know if Kaguya actually killed Mokou's father and it wasn't just Mokou hallucinating everything?Barely any of those were shown firsthand. Do you know why all these retarded questions are retarded? Because info has to be ingested to be truth despite it not everything being certain, or none at all. It's Occam's Razor.You're speculating far, FAR more than I have here. You're diverting so much from the myth because you just don't want to believe something like that happened, when in fact similar things have happened before like Makai being destroyed.>Tell me then, how is it more wrong to assume the series continued doing what it always did?Because you're assumptions are so focused on what is being argued. Is it true that myths in Touhou often aren't 1:1 to their real equivalent? Yes. But that's not what you're arguing. What you're arguing is "This precise, exact point in this myth cannot be true simply because it is too absurd for me to accept it, so it must have diverted here in some manner despite me not having much ground to stand on."
>>46654399>Because info has to be ingested to be truth despite it not everything being certain, or none at all. It's Occam's Razor.I, personally, have only one question.How did you manage to survive to this point of your life with such total rejection of critical thinking?>How do you know if Kaguya actually killed Mokou's father and it wasn't just Mokou hallucinating everything?Also a hilarious example. You just won it. Because it is what it was, Mokou convinced herself that Kaguya killed her father somehow.
>>46654426I got one question.Why are you so retarded, wannabe 6th grade lit teacher? And why have your arguments turned into pure ad hominem name calling?>Mokou convinced herself that Kaguya killed her father somehow.Yeah, because surely it's no fault of Kaguya that all those men died.
>>46654438>wannabe 6th grade lit teacher?That's different anon if you didn't notice, and unlike him, I lost the patience to directly engage with this stupidity long ago (and he generally does it better anyway). Your posts already scream severe retardation for anyone who decides to peek into this thread, no need for me to even try to highlight this anymore.>Yeah, because surely it's no fault of Kaguya that all those men died.Yeah, just like this.
>>46654475I mean call me stupid, but for both of your sakes I still like I haven't even mentioned the fact that he thinks killing a major Greek God is less impressive than shooting down a sun.
>>46652040The best we've seen Yukari do with regards to travel was pick up the hobgoblins, but in that case she probably travelled to an otherworld, which are fairly interconnected and probably much easier to traverse. I wouldn't be surprised if Yukari can hardly gap in the outside world but uses the various entrances to otherworlds as shortcuts.>>46654426Where is it ever said that Mokou's father died? Unless I'm missing something, the series only actually mentions him being humiliated due to the supposed commoner's impossible request, without going into detail about it. From the story, we can extrapolate that the humiliation came from being caught with a fake branch of Hourai, but even that is not guaranteed to have happened in Touhou canon.
I see the koreans are back
>>46651449He's probably talking about the US navy UFO video. Same as always, it's indistinct enough to be pretty much anything. Most likely some kind of classified experimental technology, either pure sensor spoofing or an actually craft, but not aliens. Prompting a belief in aliens is obviously useful when you have top secret tech and want to keep it that way.
>>46654399But I'm not speculating anything, never have. I am speculating something didn't happen, in this case, there being literal fucking suns all over the world a couple thousand years and nobody mentioning it. Should've known you would have taken my rethorical questions meant to show how your argument hinges on only ONE possibility of how the myty went as actual alternatives.Since you are too far gone your own ass to see any other view point, let's say you're right.Fine, Houyi literally has the power to bring down the unmatched power of the sun, you win.Now, what's THAT got to to do with anything? A literal footnote not mentioned by name, not ingame, can do that, hooray. How does that help us determine the power level of characters?Oh, it's because Junko killed him! Now how does that work? Just because you killed someone doesn't mean you are stronger than them, maybe she poisoned him, stabbed him in his sleep, tricked him, countered his powers, literally anything. Otherwise, Junko must be real dumb to just forget her powers to shoot down something 40 million times bigger than the earth.Oh, but I'm wrong, right? Junko obviously killed him in the exact way you need for your argument to make sense, I'm the one speculating with flimsy arguments.Someone who probably isn't named Houyi "shot down the suns" in the exact interpretation of such way statement you need for your point to make sense. Then he (or she since Touhou characters can be referred as him despite being females) was killed by Junko in the exact way of a hundred that proves she has matching powers. Then she forgot about them, choosing to let fairies run around to scare the Lunarians.You have nothing but weak guesses supporting more weak guesses.
>>46650189the Weakest Creature you ask?
If it can defeat Reimu, it can defeat any modern military force, even if they developed their own magicians/priests/whatever
Is it safe to assume that world governments have their own mages and supernatural entities on their payroll?
If people wanted to powerwank couldn't they just pick Okuu, since her attacks would vaporize most of the things?Funny that someone mentions this >>46653750 since no one gave a dam fuck about radiation in SA iirc. But there are a lot of powers writers downplay and then others they make stronger than they should and so on...Still in Touhou of all places it's canon that the creatures of myth retired, even if doesn't make much sense for magic to stop in the first place if it isn't incompatible with technology, so unless you pull the it was Yukari messing around from the forbidden template to explain the fall of youkai and that the outside world is full Hifuu Club level of spiritually starved thus being unable to counter stuff I doubt any can go against any top modern millitary force.But hey real life combat tends to use resources way better than fiction and use better strategies and do things that actual work istead of relying on plot armor and so on...>>46652975Seems like it? afaik the oni decided to get away without any myth believe making them do that. Rumia would probably be weirder and at the very least illiterate if all villagers see of her is just some blob of darkness. They might be a bit limited by myths in some cases like if they had severe obsessions/addictions tho.
>>46658158they have to be human, and there is no way they have anyone stronger than reimoo
>>46650189Marisa. Next.
>>46654218>The story does imply, however, that Yorihime has so many powers at her disposal considering that she can summon the myriad gods at her disposal at will.So basically we're just assuming that they totally have anti fate manipulation, instead of the more obvious thing that Remilia's fate manipulation just being something vague that has no actual combat application. >Also, it's never stated that Remi uses her powers at any point as well. In fact, the only time it was ever mentioned to be used was the meteor in BAiJR, and even that was kept as nebulous as possible.Reimus supposed ability to always win in the end is literally something brought up multiple times... until it suddenly stop working against a big enough threat. The point is that you can't just take the entire abilities attribute at face value because its clear even in universe it isn't totally omnipotent. >Sakuya has been mentioned multiple times to clean the entire SDM while time is stopped and that she more or less does the entire work by herself in maintaining the place. Is it an infinitely long time stop? Maybe, maybe not: but it's long enough that she can clean an entire mansion while time is stopped, and she can stop time multiple times without needing to rest at all in 6.Funnily enough, Sakuya straight up contradicts her own time stop abilities and implies she just moves fast. So even in universe their abilities are inconsistent from the same writer, we can't be arguing indefinite abilities when the abilities don't even have a bottom floor.
>>46658158Yeah
>>46658498Reimu might just be a big fish in a small pond.
>>46652387>this isn't some battle shonenit is
>>46650708Yukari could, but she's too flighty and stupid to actually pull it off.
>>46659265Yes, but it's closer to early Stardust Crusader than Dragon Ball. >>46658158Most likely, no. Magic has already declined to the point that it wouldn't be worth keeping them around.With that said, most humans are most likely still protected by major deities to some extent. Hecatia herself is leagues above everybody in Gensoyko and she's a total nothingburger in the outside world.
>>46659372>Magic has already declinedDunno, there is Buddhist hell (animal realm) which appears to be much larger and stronger/more advanced than Gensokyo + Mamizou in TH13 extra stage saying that the heroines shouldn't be too cocky because they know nothing of the outside world
>>46659247Most magic got contained in Gensokyo, so i doubt that is the case, and even then, how do you get stronger than Reimu and her bullshit ability? At that point you are most likely not human anymore
>>46659139>Funnily enough, Sakuya straight up contradicts her own time stop abilities and implies she just moves fast.Nta but I always thought that's how she saw her own power, remi alone is there clearest example of having a power that she doesn't fully understand.
>>46659963>how do you get stronger than Reimu and her bullshit ability?By being Hecatia and Yukari.
>>46660050>By being Hecatia and Yukari.Not humans retard, one is a God and the other a hag
>>46660010Girl can apparently have full control over time and space but not know how her power works?
>>46653626If we are talking about that stuff, even easier would be for Yukari to spend the next hundred of so years creating a very big rock and throw it to Earth.If aliens were to try and destroy humans, lasers and massive armies wouldn't work, a very big rock hard counters all of humanity.But that's a boring answer and cheating by this cute jobber, so we don't allow it and she can cry about it.
>>46659139>Sakuya straight up contradicts her own time stop abilities and implies she just moves fast.Time stopping is explained easiest as accelerating oneself a dam lot... and still has some troubles here and there depending how you define stuff but basically for someone "existing at infinite speed" everything else would seem to not move at all.But that panel always makes me think if she just lied, it doesn't work on other humans, it has a size limit or just contradiction.>>46660278>Girl can apparently have full control over time and space but not know how her power works?Would ask writer to not do that but I can't blame them since not knowing how forearm muscles open and close hands hasn't stopped anyone from doing so... Could be done and realistic in some scenarios but it's mostly dissatisfying.
>>46652327Wait, it's still going? I thought it ended when the space ship Eirin built finally gave out and they were all about to fall into one.
>>46650481>>46650568you guys are forgetting theres gods, good spirits and heroes and shit that are allied with humans which would also get a belief boost and would stomp the youkai/evil spirits, like they did in legends all over the world since the dawn of storytelling.thats the most logical reason why they didnt just break out of gensokyo and take over the world, because theyd end up running back to it.
>>46652040judging by the US military's track record against rice farmers, rice farmers, some more rice farmers and goat herders i'd say nobody is underestimating them pitted against rice farmers again here
>>46653861are you seriously trying to use real world scientific evidence to refute a fucking stupid chinese story? do you also look at winnie the pooh and say "nuh-uh bears arent like that i read the wikipedia article"? we KNOW that there werent 10 stars in the solar system until the last few millenia. and thats okay, because its just a story.
>>46661640That would ultimately depend on how many of those human aligned entities there are still are living in the outside world. We know there are the odd youkai here and there based on Mamizou but how many Gods and heroes are there who are powerful enough to stop a youkai army lurking about?
>>46661653There's an alleged story that US soldiers kicked the ass of a Rephaim hiding out in the mountains of Afghanistan. Between that and the moon incident, there's almost certainly some kind of secret agency that knows of these paranormal activities. >>46661721In reference to Touhou's cosmology, we know that there was a Hou Yi who shot down something which crushed the son of a Chinese noblewoman during the Spring and Autumn period.
My headcanon to explain why the Youkai don't just cause terrorist acts in the Outside World to solidity their existence, outside of maybe them becoming drastically weaker once they leave Gensokyou, is because there are some ridiculously powerful humans out there who could actually threaten them and would love to play the role of "hero who defeats the monsters".
>>46661752the entire religion of christianity with its saints and angels? every unmentioned buddhist deity?
>>46662069dont even need humans when the top 3 religions share an omniscient god with a hatred for demons
>>46662312>HateHe doesn't hate demons necessarily, He hates the sins they have decided to revolve their existence around. Multiple saints are theorized to be pagan gods who submitted to His will like Saint Brigid and Ukko.
>>46661752>but how many Gods and heroes are there who are powerful enough to stop a youkai army lurking about?Every major religion for starter. Hecatia is a minor deity by outside world status and she could solo all of Gensokyo. YHVH could most likely send a single archangel to raze all of Gensokyo if he felt like it.
>>46659372Buddhism is still a major religion. It makes sense they would still be on some level of their own. Even then however, it's a vissage of what it once was at it's glory.
>>46664469Meant for: >>46659406
>>46662303>>46664462Touhou game with a playable Kanako, Byakuren, and Miko, who are temporarily joining forces to fight off agents of Christianity trying to conquer Gensokyo when?
In what context do you think a confrontation like this can happen?I always wanted to write about a situation where humanity attacks Gensokyo first in a massive-scale invasion and when they think they won, the true battle starts
>>46664857Maybe rapid urban development is threatening to eat up Gensokyo and they have no choice but to fight if they want to keep what they have.
>>46664905People are no longer having children, to the day when something like that happens, it would be or too much in the future where something different happened that increased greatly the birth rate, or an alternate reality.I'm wrong?
>>46664857Literally just Yukari fucking up once and abducting somebody who will actually be missed. The moment the outside world discovers Gensokyo there will be a campaign of total genocide.
>>46665053Out of joking, I think seriously that in the Gensokyo Universe, the government of Japan already knows about its existence, but hides it.I have theories that Gensokyo can be seen by satellite and that the disappearances have a darker reason. In addition to that, people already should know at least a bit that something is wrong in the zone.
>>46665209>gensokyo can be seen by satellitethat's not how the barrier works though
>>46665232How exactly it works, then?
>>46665449Nta but It's never stated, only the result of the barrier preventing observation from the outside world knowing about its existence.
Oh my, another HFY thread where 2hus get excessively lowballed by /jp/tards. Where have I seen this before?
>>46664462>Hecatia is a minor deity by outside world status and she could solo all of Gensokyo.I think there's some fuckery going on like some parallel warfare and shit going on in hell since it wouldn't make much sense for Heca to be on top of Hindu/Buddhist hell figures by those terms and youkai also seem to be able to exist in afterlife which would logically give them the least amount of faith/fear of the living.The whole Gensokyo deal gets a bit weird though when people could just move to afterlife realms or otherworlds but they could also be more fucked up I guess.>>46665053>Literally just Yukari fucking up once and abducting somebody who will actually be missedYou know people go missing like irl, no magic alternate planes needed?Maybe if you said something like her accidentally taking away someone important or well knows, but jeez the state isn't going to go into full schizo occult research just because someone like you or me disappeared.>>46665449In EoSD/PCB lore and then in PMiSS Gensokyo is mentioned as some place in the mountains in the middle of nowhere.In EoSD some humans seem to stay there willingly but no barrier or anything mentioned (maybe human village wasn't even a thing at that time).In PCB it says it was sealed by people from the outside and a bunch of humans who kept the youkai in check of that place no one dared to approach.Yukari's profile in PMiSS which reboots the other two I guess it's said that over 500 years ago it went from some place in the mountains to a separate world.But Gensokyo is pretty weird, it could be some strange dream world considering how it's mostly accessed via dreams... So I guess in the outside world things might be pretty different, but not sure if Mamizou ever talks much about how the outside world is.>>46665589Eh, this thread at least isn't that bad since it goes with the lore and a modern military force is pretty dam tough, numbers can also mitigate a lot some powers which would made a 1vs1 without spellcard rules a curb stomp battles.Military also gets usually pretty dam downplayed since they tend to be pretty useless because many writers don't want guns to be relevant so they are completely nullified despite arrows, boomerangs and gorillas being able to harm your bulletproof/faster-than-bullet hero. But inconsistency and "power level gaps" are everywhere, except maaaybe in one-shots and such.
What if humanity learns magic too?I mean, if Magic exist, then, to lead a war against the Youkai in chase they attack first, there will be already a lot of people who know magic from books that you can search right now or even find for free.By that logic, what keeps someone from literally taking a book and learning all the spells?
>>46666311Depends on the setting and ZUN isn't gonna explain shit, but magic should also work in the outside world, might change a lot the common worldview tho.afaik you don't have many how to fly or shoot fireball instructions irl and most non-fiction magic is more influencing luck, health, warding of curses, predicting stuff and things that are hard to check and you can scam people with.If someone really managed to summon water out of thin air it would already be something really useful so it begs the question of how things disappeared unless we have some magic gets harder with time sort of setting.
>>46665589How lowballed are we talking? Thus far this thread seems pretty fair. In fact, I would say there has been a case of ludricous statements like the ftl Sunny and Junko being starlevel, all the while ignoring the multiple people who brought up chemical weapons.
>>46665209> I think seriously that in the Gensokyo Universe, thegovernment of Japan already knows about its existence, but hides it.It's possible but I doubt it. Mostly because Gensokyo doesn't really matter.>>46665589Anon, we've had Cheating Detective. This isn't the early 2000's, we know Gensokyo isn't worth shit.
>>46666288When it comes to Hecatia being in charge of Hell I tend to assume it's less that she's in charge of hell and more that she's the biggest name around. Granted, I think Eiki is mentioned as being her subordinate explicitly. Still, I doubt Hecate is the highest deity in the cosmology. >You know people go missing like irl, no magic alternate planes needed?When I say somebody that will be missed I don't just mean somebody that would make people think twice. Literally anybody with a decent youtube channel and a cellphone in their pocket would most likely cause Gensokyo to be revealed.
>>46650189the wording of this question exposes that its a retarded teenager that wrote it.there's no such thing as a "force", so the question is moot right from the startdo you mean a squad of light infantry? a company? a full on division with all the bells and whistles?is this a zoomer tier team deathmatch or a proper operation for the annexation of Gensokyoif its a full on incursion, Gensokyo would be rolled over swiftly for two reasons:First, Japan is a Great Power with a top tier military and many allies, and this shit would be happening in the heart of mainland Japan. this means logistics are a virtual non-issue and they can readily use any asset they own since its all stationed right next door. Namely Japan's NATO style fetish for air power. Yooks can out regenerate small arms, a laser guided bomb not so much. And even if that doesn't kill them, blowing a Youkai's legs off makes it pretty hard for them to run from the squad specialist with the proper anti-youkai blessed weapons coming to deliver to coup de grace.And second: Youkai are not stupid, they haven't lived as long as they have fighting battles they know they can't win. If its a gaggle of outsider boots, that's one thing.If its the baleful glare of all humanity and its endless legions, that's a very fucking different problem. They'd try for peace, and since Militaries and governments aren't actually hyper edgy cartoon villains, they'd accept and focus all attention on fumigating the feral youkai that can't be reasoned with at all.While the peace may be shaky and rife with culture clash, a peace it would be and one that'd be inevitably smoothed over with diplomacy.
>>46665589Have you read CDS anon? Satori showed us that the Youkai's regenerative abilities aren't worth shit.
>>46665589Touhou has never been as strong as lorefags wanted it to be, taking OOC and vague ass statements by ZUN drunkenly stating shit to sound cool, both intentionally and unintentionally making them seem a lot stronger than they actually are. I mean the whole premise of Touhou is that these demons and “””gods””” straight up lost the spiritual fight to a bunch of apes that stoped believing in them. They literally tiptoe around the real world so they don’t get obliterated. The fucking goofy ass Demons from Doom are more intimidating than them, at least they actually kicked a future humanities ass in a one on one fight, no faith required. Most other demonic creatures would bully Gensokyo for being so lame.
>>46665589>Where have I seen this before?Probably in the threads about Yukari, Marisa, Eirin and such. Weird no one seems to downplay Raiko or Hecatia or Okina. Almost like there ARE characters who are written to be cool, just not your favorites - Kaguya being the subject of the thread this screenshot comes from, who is, too, not as cool as people think.
>>46667174No one gives a shit about Okina, Raiko or Hecatia enough to downplay them, especially when two of them have barely done jackshit. Hecatia literally has one sentence establishing her power, and that’s it.
>>46666815>I doubt Hecate is the highest deity in the cosmology. Agreed, but it's odd for her to be the biggest name in hell instead of some hindi/buddhist Yama or Yama based deity like the 10 judges since those deities(or some non-deities from bigger religion) would be "in charge" if we only consider outside world... But heck I think afterlives break a bit the whole Gensokyo problem since the rest of yooks could just have gone to some hell or something like most oni did.>Literally anybody with a decent youtube channel and a cellphone in their pocket would most likely cause Gensokyo to be revealed.If people went full shizo with that and take magical beings I don't think Gensokyo would have any need to exist in the first place, but imo the point of magic fading away is odd since most people seem to be fascinated with religion and the paranormal.
>>46668163>Agreed, but it's odd for her to be the biggest name in hell instead of some hindi/buddhist Yama or Yama based deity like the 10 judges since those deities(or some non-deities from bigger religion)I mean i've heard he doesn't really want to bring in any other rmodern western religions into touhou because of how much it would muddy the water (even going as far as to basically deconfirm Christianity Post-PC98 in some ways) so i guess you'd basically have the Greek/Norse/Hindu Gods to be recognizable enough.
>>46667174>RaikoI thought she was just a haunted drum. What does she do that is so crazy?
>>46668199She is cool in the sense of her being charming and other characters actually liking her. I picked her along Okina and Hecatia because they embody the three main characteristics wrongly applied to other characters, being liked by other characters, being a conniving mastermind and being super duper strong.
>>46668305Literally just Bizzaro YuukaNo I do not need to explain myself
>>46665589As spiritual entities 2hus aren't easy to kill physically. This, however, doesn't mean that they can't be killed, or that its even overly difficult. Satori survived and recovered from being stabbed through the chest by Flan, but it took its toll on her in the moment. Guns would definitely fuck up Youkai, even if only temporarily.
>>46664462He promised He'd stop razing cities for being dens of degeneracy. Lord knows there's a hundred places on Earth that deserves it more than Gensokyo, where the average human or Yook doesn't even know Him.What I want to know is why nobody is being admitted into Heaven?
>>46665589> 2hus get excessively lowballed by ZUNftfy. Writters will just make armies afraid of martial artist or have some boy kick the settings "God" despite not being able to open a wooden door without a key. "Gods" and the military are just the most common jobbers in fiction. But then army and godkillers will be pretty close to humans every now and then, people with planet level powers won't almost never use their planet shattering powers and barely damage shit until x dramatic moment where the planet explodes(or is said to explode if x isn't done).But Touhou is a pretty, "local" story focusing mostly of whatever strange myths ZUN has been interested and not some shonen or capeshit kinda stuff.Just having a sad backstory, a strange accident, the power of friendship or getting supper pissed isn't gonna make you able to kill armies in Touhou... It's a bit more "grounded" in that sense.It's ironically one of the few places that kinda makes sense how enemies fight in strange unorganized ways instead of just trying to kill you straight on since it's mostly playing around.And probably also probably the only setting with flight being that dam cheap were characters don't fuck up entire buildings in a single punch. But on the other hand going from games to mangas feels a bit like going from high fantasy to low fantasy.>>46666825Wow, someone in touch with reality! Guess some people here touch grass and socialize!But you know how people like ignoring diplomacy and love their total annihilation.
>>46668622I think it's more that most 2hu characters are specialized at doing one thing like, really well, but otherwise aren't built to same standards as your shonen protagonist who can survive a hundred tons of force or swim to the bottom of the ocean or whatever ridiculous Herculean feat they're attributed so they don't look lame next to the Monkey King expy.On that tangent, think less Hercules, more Beowulf: someone who can commit one, maybe two impressive feats before burning themselves out. Many Japanese stories involving youkai have comparable protagonists, who slew that demon who threatened to doom the whole country only to drown in a puddle in his 70s.It's like complaining the men with the keys to the nuclear launch codes can't survive a .50 caliber bullet to the chest even though they have the power to single-handedly destroy Luxembourg.
>>46668192>deconfirm Christianity Post-PC98afaik not much was really Christian aside from design things mostly picked from megaten. Shinki supposedly made Makai so it's full "made up religion I made from this things that looked cool", probably less Christians than the religions many fantasy authors have made.>Greek/Norse/HinduTaking Abrahamic religions away Hinduism or Buddhism would have the biggest numbers, share a lot of things and is something ZUN is familiar so he'll probably go with those to be the strongest, unless he goes full nippon and decides to take Amaterasu/Tsukuyomi/Susano or one of the first deities in shintoism which doesn't really do much aside once the world and the first gods exist. But he'll probably won't powerwank much and just keep talking about x youkai or god of this region which might actually be *insert Rinnosuke rambling*>>46668499>What I want to know is why nobody is being admitted into Heaven?The pseudo buddhist heaven of Touhou might be a different one if you go full syncretism, many heavens and hells could exist. Or maybe he will just ignore every afterlife realm he isn't familiar. Anyways I don't think that some things will be canonically confirmed like saint Peter saying "sorry pools closed right now come back latter" to some souls or whatever wacky way ZUN might like to interpret stuff.
>>46662312However, in Touhou cosmology, Elohim is nerfed hard and barely lives up to the regular abrahmanic view. All the "only worship me for I am a jealous god" in the bible translates in-universe to him being just a super succesful Kanako, but he would be still a top deity in one world. Meanwhile, Hecatia tops not only in Earth, but in pretty much all of them as the ruler ofall lf their hells, so the cranky old man would get slaughtered by her>But why Hecatia doesn't do x?Because she's chill as ice. Everything she needs and wants, she already has
>>46668744>Nerfed hardG-man prescribes to the same philosophy as the Dragon of Gensokyo.
>>46668305So Yukari doesnt know what she doing and she actually sucks???
>>46668770Anyway, the both of them would get their asses kicked by miss LapislazuliNow, if Elohim could beat the Dragon God, or viceversa, is anyone's guess
>>46668838It's that kind of attitude that caused Hecatia to lose 90% of her followers to some dude nailed on a stick
>>46668842She's already Hell's overlord, no amount of disbelief on her is going to save you from your vacation there
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GtdgaEwAsEHow would the whole battalion fare in Gensokyo?
>>46668643Arguably the reason Monkey King was able to plow through everyone in Heaven to begin with was because they had all failed the Mandate of Heaven and had no actual virtue to back their positions with. He was showing true righteousness to a gang of phonies.
>>46668855Save perhaps, the guy whose telling you that at the end of time He'll abolish the system of reincarnation and Hell forever.Now whether you believe this guy is a matter of fate.
>>46668643I guess it's closer to your dark fantasy setting or real life where at the end of the day everyone can be pretty vulnerable, instead of attacks being mostly cosmetic until the author decides otherwise.I guess Jojo's is kind of close? You can have your op stand that manipulates time but are still human (or a vampire that changed dying by conventional means by some crippling weakness to the sun).Good comparison, but I think that some might be a bit more durable if they considering knives being "non-lethal" but it's hard to tell since your average fictional blade might be unable to pierce flesh at one time but cleanly cut steel at another one.
>>46668951JoJo is the best comparison. Complete with the insanely broken powers still having fairly mundane weaknesses.
>>46668163Going by my lack of knowledge of Buddhist lore, I think the only real likely candidate should be Mara. Who, 1: Didn't Buddha redeem him/her? 2: I feel would have more important things to do.>I don't think Gensokyo would have any need to exist in the first placeI tend to assume it was partly created to save their ass from deliberate genocide. Considering even in the modern day the outside world can still support the like of Mamizou.
>>46650189Any random fairy would defeat it. Also kuso powerlevelshit and military wank thread.
>>46666793>This isn't the early 2000's, we know Gensokyo isn't worth shit.Can I ask what do you mean?
>>46669853>Also kuso powerlevelshit and military wank thread.I think the problem of power leveling stuff in our case is that not even ZUN knows the power of his characters.He could PERFECTLY present a lot of characters as the most powerful, and in the next game/print work they are significantly weaker.And Touhou is this way because what cares is not the franchise itself, but the interpretations that the fans give, or even create their own versions of Touhou.
>>46668686Yeah i just don't think Abrahamic Religions would realy jive with Gensokyo to begin with, not only is from a just a ideological standpoint (Christianity is a One God Religion who states all other gods are fake demon frauds and must be destroyed, and Buddhism/Taoism/Shintoism doesn't belive in one singular omnipotent creator god, in fact Buddhism outright opposes it) but also Japan and China are probably the only places on Earth with no substantial Abrahamic influence, it would just feel out of place. Besides as mentioned above, having Heaven be a place that is sealed off does not fucking work at all with Christianity.
>>46669853I am convinced your average fairy would be mauled by the first military dog that sniffed them out.
>>46671736On the contrary, when one looks at how the gods in Gensokyo conduct themselves, it makes Abrahamic God's notion that only a perfect being is worthy of the title all the more understandable - to worship a fallible terrestrial creature like a kami is just as unreasonable as putting all your faith into a king, a president, or a celebrity: not only for yourself, but to them, forcing them into a pedestal of impossibly high standards from which the only direction is to fall. This is something Amaterasu, the goddess of Japan herself realized, stepping down that the Japanese people themselves might actuate their destiny for good or ill. It especially jives with the Chinese concept of the Mandate of Heaven, where those who do not espouse virtue are destined to fail from prominence, thus the only decisive answer to the Mandate is an entity of perfect virtue, wherever They might come.Likewise, Buddhism does in fact have a concept of a perfect, omnipotent, omni-benevolent being known as the Adi-Buddha, they just don't think said being would be the creator of material existence as it views such an act to be evil.
>>46669719Mara is a bit odd, but technically converted to Buddhism in some scriptures. He might actually be more of an asura tho, but just like the animal realm which ZUN might join it with hell somehow but afaik Mara barely has any relation with hell itself.There aren't really many big names afaik in hell in oriental stuff afaik so maybe if ZUN decided to put Izanami at some point in hell since we got some characters related to her lately. Susano also went to Yomi which I think counts as hell in Touhou, but dunno if hell keep expanding on hell.>I tend to assume it was partly created to save their ass from deliberate genocide. Considering even in the modern day the outside world can still support the like of Mamizou.So you think that in Touhou magic still exist but is probably some government secret? I thought that while some beings could hold their shape outside that any sort of study of magic was pretty much gone.
>>46674060But it's strength is that it can respawn indefinitely so the dog will eventually get tired of mauling it.
>>46674133Touhou is strange because its entire idea is that the gods and youkai, for all their power, are basically glorified snake oil salesman when brought to their lowest point. Conmen who only exist to rip people off as they have nothing else. Even the “good” gods are at best, as you described, as kings or emperors who looks own upon the peasants. ZUN definitely doesn’t have the highest opinion of religion (or at least the main religions of Japan/China) so I think the idea of the Abrahamic God being presented as the nice guy he is would either be subverted or scrutinized, or it would be really out of place for the setting. Like ZUN didn’t have heaven be closed for no reason, there’s a deep cynical view on how “fair” the Eastern religions are to good people and how it “punishes” evil ones.
>>46674133>Likewise, Buddhism does in fact have a concept of a perfect, omnipotent, omni-benevolent being known as the Adi-Buddha, they just don't think said being would be the creator of material existence as it views such an act to be evil.Eh, i've heard a lot of contradicting ideas of what the Adi-Buddha even is, from being more of the canvas of the universe itself, to being a split off of the very mind of existence in its purest form. But like you said, its still not the same as the true Supreme Creator God like Brahman or Yahweh.
>>46666825>Tengu diplomacythat might actually be an interesting, if dark storythe Tengu are a autocratic caste systemJapan is a egalitarian democracyThe wolves are not at all fans of the system since they're at the fucking bottom for all eternitycould play with the idea of them seeing the horrifyingly powerful outsider military, the outsiders' disdain for authoritarians, and decide they would rather not have a caste system anymore now that they have probable backers with a shitload of resourcesThe Tengu Civil WarThough given that the Tengu military arm are mostly wolves, you'd need to figure out how to draw the battlelines in a way that doesn't give the rebels an instant win by sheer numbers advantage in professional soldiers
>>46667021This makes me think, what if the near extinction of the Youkai and Gods was, actually, something planned? Maybe by humanity or the Lunar Capital, but someone has to explain how such powerful beings lost so easily.
>>46680301By the Magelords who ran humanity from the shadows since ancient times and continue to do so today.
>>46680484I still don't understand well the difference between Masons and the Illuminati. I always thought that Masons were the good guys, while Illuminati were a group of psychotic maniacs.
>>46680501Masons are a public organization that anyone can theoretically join with headquarters all over the place. Illuminati, though they did exist in a similar manner a long time ago, are now completely secret and presumably up to shadier things.
>>46680541I don't want to bother anyone with this conversation, so I will thank you and ask where I can find information about this. Seriously, google search is garbage nowadays, I can't find shit by myself.
>>46680301
>>46680556Other than the historical Illuminati that existed in the 1700's, there isn't much else you can read about it that wasn't just made up by schizos unless you like reading that kind of thing, Mason stuff is easier to find but maybe not so much the secrets that the inner circle are supposedly privy too.
The Masons' big secrets are probably something stupid like investing all their capital into NFTs.
>>46653906Reminds me of this creepypasta/HFY story https://creepypasta.fandom.com/wiki/Mankind
>>46677384Well that's easy, make it a cloak and dagger storyBecause of [insert fuckery here], the barrier is absolutely fucking fucked, big time. totally FUBAR, no recovery, it is dead.however, because this isn't the first time some retard has fucked with her barrier, Yukari had a contingency in place just in case it all went tits up.Using her power of being able to go wherever the fuck she wants, the whatthefucking brass and politicians about to hot drop a division into this full on city that appeared out of nowhere by goddamn magic instead get told what the fuck Gensokyo is.Now with the power of knowledge, the far calmer bigwigs instead change plans from delivering a big fucky wucky to instead sending a bunch of MPs and administrative officials to start annexing the place into Japan.Because this "conquest" is totally without bloodshed, nobody is interested in being remembered as the savage that fucked it all up and sent what might as well be First Contact with the next best thing to aliens straight to hell in a handbasketBut since autocratic caste systems are turbo gay in the eyes of a democracy and since Gensokyo is totally helpless and isolated within Japan, they still want it toppled. So rather than an armoured regiment powersliding into the Tengu's collective ass, its spooks and plausibly deniable assets snuck in with the actual diplomatic/integration corp.But since the crows and daitengu don't want to lose their place on top, they try to stamp it out. However, since they can FEEL the outsiders breathing down their neck wishing a nigga would, they to have to stick with counter spookery and avoid over-escalation since they'll lose really hard really fast.
>>46680301Divine bigshots seemingly left to the moon at lest the Chinese/Japanese ones.Then youkai mostly going by PMiSS:-Oni which seem the ones with the most leadership and strength apparently left before the great barrier even was a thing.-Lost a war against the moon which made them leave less their territory.-Had some conflict between them when the barrier was made which distracted them from attacking humans.-The barrier attracted youkai of all kinds even outside of Japan since they were stronger inside, so more youkai disappearing of the outside world and also youkai are weaker than what we see ingame if they went to the outside world.Other facts like Mokou killing mostly youkai after they lost the lunar war for 300 years might also have helped.I also wonder if Youkai and Gods even knew of their dependent to human belief nature before they started to lose massive amounts of power.And Touhous outside world seems to be closer to our world in human competence. Dunno your average zombie setting where infection mostly happens by bites must have the biggest jobbers in the military... Or whatever setting that has 1(one) character or a small group of misfits saving the world when just a few hundred organized enemies would end the plot quickly.
>>46674600>I think you're buying the propaganda too hard.We know it still exists. As for how many people are aware of it, well, try and remember that plenty of people working in the government, even Japan, ARE religious.
>>46661935>There's an alleged story that US soldiers kicked the ass of a Rephaim hiding out in the mountains of Afghanistan. You mean this guy?
>>46681018Can I ask what does this mean?
>>46674600>So you think that in Touhou magic still exist but is probably some government secret?NTA, but that's exactly what I have been thinking it was like in Touhou. The unique thing I want to know, is if the government secretly has an army of super soldiers that can control magic.
>>46650189>Who is the weakest touhou character that could defeat a modern military force in your opinion? Personally I think Yuugi could do it.Cirno. They have no way of killing her or imprisoning her, considering her formidable ice magic. Only disadvantage she has is being a retard. They could use that against her but overall they can't do shit to her. Not too surprising since she should at least be multiversal. If modern armies could use magic it would be a different story potentially.
>>46650869Alright very late post but what the fuck can people even do to the walking nuclear arsenal known as okuu? Anything that gets near enough is gonna die of radiation poisoning and she can nuke shit at will.
>>46685801It’s an SCP thing where there’s another faction run by the UN called the Global Occult Coalition, whose whole thing is that instead of wanting to save anomalies, they desire to destroy them all for the good of mankind.
>>46686578All they have to do is trap her in a cage and she's effectively out of commission. You don't need an army to do that, just one of those old snares and a tasty snack as bait.
>>46687004Okuu is a bit of a glass cannon as war as modern warfare goes. She is capable of great damage but she can still be taken out by conventional weaponry since she is presumably still a being of flesh and blood.
>>46687004Peak ZUN not powerleveling. Just being close to her attacks could pretty much be lethal, and a micro-star would have more damage on direct impact than 1 hit point(1HP = 1 hit by a 14ich caliber bullet) which would put probably any 'hu that fought Okuu at absurd resistance.So it's a bit like capeshit where they can completely ignore bullets but job to people with pretty meh powers or just above average normal humans because.... erm plot convenience.But since this isn't capeshit not that many people will go "OMG Chiruno's perfect freeze is evidence that she can freeze to 0K" or "Yookarii summons infinite speed objects in that spellcard" some even genuinely dislike Gensokyo and/or 2hu characters morally so they also focus more on their weakest.Writers tend to do more math with an "e" than an "a" so shits inconsistent but by lore Gensokyo is supposed to be weaker than the outside world, maybe some like the ones mentioned by >>46650291 and >>46650316 could become a threat.
Power wanky is dumb shit Guns = lame and boring Cute girls shooting magic = cool and rad Therefore Touhou girls win by default
>>46689272Guns with tracers = basically shooting magic. Boom, we win.
>>46689531How fucking scary would it be for a modern soldier to see something flying at them that is weaving between the bullets?
>>46689547Danmaku bullets are slowthey are not supersonic like actual bulletsadditionally, tracer rounds are every 7th to 12th bullet, not every
>>46689272Modern guns vs Kaguya or Mokou.https://youtu.be/wpOieW-T6i4?t=117
>>46689638just use explosive munition bro.
>>46689547Danmaku battles are literally designed to be able to be avoided and are barely letha most of the time. It was stated to be a big deal when Junko straight up ignored the "beauty" part of the spell card rules and just used her bullets to kill the main characters. Fast as hell Touhou characters like Marisa can't even outrun a normal ass tiger, let alone a bullet moving at 3,000ft a second. >>46689638Hourai Immortals still feel pain and can even exhaust themselves if they get their asses kicked too hard, literally just shoot them until they can't fight back and then throw their ass in an impenetrable block for all eternity.
>>46689272Pretty much. Militarytards can jerk off their shit guns on /k/. Magic is cool. I mean touhou can easily shit on guns as a whole simply by having a yokai or god of guns.
>>46689272The thinking man's choice: Modern guns augmented by magic.
>>46689272What if humanity starts making, or already has blessed guns? It would be pretty cool to actually have a defence against Youkai.>>46701323>Something that doesn't exist and is made for girls is way cooler than something with a cool design that can kill you Holy autism. I actually have to give you credit, this is the shit I pay mi internet for.
>>46650189I agree.
What if you dump a bunch of military equipment in holy water or have it blessed by the church? That would fuck em up.
