Mexico is replacing about 500 ancient infantry fighting vehicles with 200 new tracked ifvs and 300 8x8 ifvs. The tender stipulates an unmanned turret with both a 40mm autocannon and a 60mm to 90mm gun/mortar. What should they buy? German, Turk, Israeli and Brazilian/Italian vehicles are the top contenders for the wheeled vehicles.
>>61436429Nothing since it doesn't matter.
>>61436440AMLO ordered the army not to escalate the conflict in Culiacan because all the army vehicles there were light and couldn't take hits over 12.7mm and the actual heavy armored vehicles were ancient slow pieces of shit like the DNC1 and HWK11 that had to be loaded on to tank transporters and moved from 300km away and then off loaded and travel at 30kmh to the battle where as something like this could arrive in two hours from district garrisons under better armor and deliver 40mm shells, 3000 rounds of MG fire, heavy fire from non line of sight covered positions and move at 90kmh.
>>61436429Dunno. But the Israelis have experience with putting 60mm mortars on tanks, and the Namer has extremely heavy protection to suit close-range all-round threats, which might be useful in Mexico, which is highly urbanised with over 80% of the population in urban areas.Pic is Namer with 30mm Mk44 and Spike ATGMs. Mk44 can be converted to 40x180mm SuperShot with only a change of barrel (and small bits).So maybe the tracked IFVs can be Namers with a 40x180mm Mk44 gun and a new hatch for a Soltam 60mm mortar.IDF wants more Namers but can't justify increased production. Foreign sales/partnership could increase production numbers and drive down incremental costs for Israel.
>>61436475Most of Mexico is mountains they even built most of their cities within mountain ranges. Something like the Eitan would actually work since it has the same turret but the Namer is way too fucking heavy. A CV90 with a Namer/Eitan turret would be a better idea for the tracked vehicle or simple stick a Soltam mortar into a K21.
>>61436491nta, due the to terrain complexity they should focus on designing their own vehicle, it would take longer but at least they have a vehicle that is perfectly adapted for mexican terrain
>>61436507They could build new designs off of modified Turkish or Korean stuff. Both have similar geography and both built up their industries while being US allies who wanted to go their own way while being western aligned. That's pretty much what Mexico is too. Mountains with forests and dense urban areas between and a few wide open plains.
>>61436429renounce war larping, invest in an fbi.
f150 with 40mm cannon in it
>>61436744Mexico has already been throwing autocannons on Ford pickup frames for 2 decades.
>>61436744Bueno
>>61436764Mexico is extremely industrialized and already makes a lot of stuff. They're western friendly so can just buy shit parts they don't know how to make anyway. They can likely mass produce a better IFV than Russia with imported parts. I think any country apart from unindustrialized countries can built a better IFV than the Brits at this point.
>no one mentioned the stryker>combat proven>fast>500km range>extreme customizable>can fit newest anti-drone tech = future-ready>manufacturing, logistics, and support all very close and not affected by global trade disruptions/war>inter-operability/training with your friendly neighbor>can probably get surplus for cheapthere is no contest
>>61436841well no I've been on /k/ for years, i just dont give a rats ass about dramafagsidk much about the warrior, it's replacement is the boxer which the strayans will also use, so i suppose mexico better consider the boxer too, if it's good enough for the uk/australia
>>61436429unmanned 40mm cannon + 82mm mortar on one turret? where are they gonna find something like that?
>>61436806Garbage compared to other vehicles on the market which is why the USMC is going with the ACV.
>>61436806>LAV III>Literally Piranha III>In 2024No, thank you.
>>61438111>redbackToo expensive. Might as well turn to K21 like Latvia is already doing.
>>61436429Considering they will be sucked into COIN wars they should try to get something specialized at killing infantry, I suspect an autocannon would be overkill, rotary cannons on the other hand.Also there should be consideration for drone deployment as this would help them recon to avoid possible ambushes.
>>61436806sorry wheeltarded dumbass mexico just needs some good old fashioned GAVINS
Just like the old days 40mm bros...
>>61436429i hope they'll sell those AMX based ifv'sthey're cute and i want one for personal use
>>61436429As much as I hate to admit it, Turk vehicles are probably the best bang for buck for a third world nation, and they'll sell to anybody.As lulzy as it would be to see Mexico snipe Morocco's order of hand-me-down Merkava 3s and from the IDF to go and blast drug cartels, I'm not convinced that Mexico would really do all that well at COIN operations, so it's probably not worth the extra expense.
>>61444130Merkava would also be shit in Mexico. Most vehicles are shit in Mexico if I am being honest.
>>61444083Given their issues with cartels I would be almost certain they are gonna get scrapped. That or some UN mission comes up and they donate them to that and they get left there after that mission is done.
>>61441649appreciate your expert opinion in times like this, mike
They're gonna pick a lifted Chevy Silverado armed with a Dallas Cowboys window decal and a Hecho en México bumper sticker
>>61436429The tracked vehicle will probably be the CV90. Brazil is going to acquire a license to manufacture it locally soon and wants to export it. Mexico is the biggest industrial market in Latin America. The Germans have a huge industrial presence in Mexico so second hand Puma or locally assembled Lynx are also options if they come with a local factory which is likely. Korean and Turkish industries also have a footprint but their arguments are weaker though the K21 and Kaplan would do well in Mexican mountain centric geography. Shipping upgraded Bradleys upgunned with 40mm Supershot and mortars to Mexico would be a great solution too but unlikely. Mexico sees American politics as unstable and schizophrenics so probably won't buy US arms in bulk right now. My money is on the CV90 armed with Supershot or CTAI in 40mm and a Soltam mortar plus Brazilian, Korean or Turkish ATGM.For the wheeled vehicles probably the Boxer, Super AV, Pars Alpha, Eitan in that order. Boxer simply because the Germans have a huge wheeled vehicle manufacturing industry in Mexico and could steamroll a gigantic factory full of trained jumping beans overnight; SuperAV is second because it's a hybrid of the Brazilian Guarani and American ACV so would have great parts sharing and both the US and Brazil would push it; Pars Alpha is in third because it fits Mexican mountain vehicle with high firepower doctrine well, is cheap and the Turks now have a defense industry partnership with Mexico via drones, Eitan is last but still a great proposal because Mexico already has a very strong local industry building Israeli armored vehicles locally and the Eitan mounts the 30/40 Bushmaster and Soltan 60mm mortar natively, but it's also heavy and expensive and it may be hard for Mexico to politically process an arms transaction with Israel at the moment because the first world left would try to say that buying from Israel war industries is immoral.
>>6143642950 Namer150 K21100 Boxer200 ParsI am right
>>61445073The cv90 is just a jobs program and not a very good IFV. Why would Mexico cuck themselves when boxer is the right choice
>>61445337>jobs programRusski-bot terminology. uralFAGonzavod tongues my anus.
>>61445355It’s what it is. It exists to provide jobs for the European defense market because armored vehicles are relatively easy to build. Brazil also wanted in on a piece of the action but Mexico already has a large manufacturing footprint so they don’t need to buy a subpar IFV.
>>61436806>Not an AMVNGMI
>>61436475Isreal isn't going to be a country much longer anyways so there's no need to try and market your junk here shlomo
>>61436429>500 ancient infantry fighting vehiclesCould those be donated to Ukraine in any way?
>>61445371>Mexico already has a large manufacturing footprint so they don’t need to buy a subpar IFV.The CV90 overperforms. Mexico could probably manufacture the Namer, Puma or Lynx competently but the CV90 is more practical for their doctrine. The Hunter AFV or K21 probably fit Mexico best due to the high urban/mountain combat zone mix combined coupled to modern arms, but Mexico is currently turning into a highly industrialized nation so it makes more sense for them to build forward designs and just get consultants for stuff they can't develop.
I wonder what Mexico’s army is for? Corruption vehicle for generals doing security for elites like in other third-world peasant countries?
>>61445414I was wondering that myself
>>61445439Anon I’m not at one of your power point presentation. Unfortunately for your argument the cv90 is in Ukraine it performs exactly how it performs, that being not very well. It’s short and cramped while having a shitty gun on it. Granted I know they have better guns like 30mm but still the hull is absolute garbage
>>61445466Probably. Mexico sent a few of their MI17 to Ukraine after Russian threw a temper tantrum and declared all contracts with Mexico invalid because Mexico made aircraft parts for NATO countries. Mexico has around 200 Soviet origin helos, though they have more NATO origin helos. Mexico had to figure out how to build parts locally. Mexico had to learn how to fabricate Russian aircraft parts from scratch with South African, Ukrainian and Polish help.
>>61444144In general terms LATAM has always been shit for combat vehicles, most of the wars fought here have relied on special forces. Personally it's a bit sad because LATAM really has an industrial base to build a MIC, but all things being equal we often resort to buy the best available things on a budget.
>>61436429>40mm autocannonQue?>8x8Que?These requirements are shit.
>>61446130>>40mm autocannon>Que?>>8x8>Que?Probably cheapo.
>>61447101Opposite. They are overkill and more expensive.
>>61436429>The tender stipulates an unmanned turret with both a 40mm autocannon and a 60mm to 90mm gun/mortarLike, both on the same turret? Seems kind of silly, is there anything that currently exists that's actually armed like that?
>>61436429BTR-4 unironically. They probably won't be avaliable for export soon, but i don't think they are in a hurry.
>>61447111>Opposite. They are overkill and more expensive.How come?
>>61436429>>61436466Pars 6x6 would actually be better than the 8x8 version for Mexico. They're optimized for mountain and urban combat, though maybe Mexico wants more armor.
>>61436429Nothing. They don't need IFVs to fight cartels that run their military and government. Just accept that reality and accept that Mexico's main export will always be Liveleak / /gif/ videos for us Westerners to watch.
>>61450978>They don't need IFVs to fight cartels that run their military and government.Typical Fox "news" viewer
>>61450716The old 6x6 Pars are less armored.
>>61436806>there is no contestnot amphibshit protectionshit fordingshit topspeedstryker dragoons suck dick because its not a chassis designed for actual combatwelp.
Good thread
>>61436633The Mexican government literally dissolved their old intel agencies because they got too powerful. Mexico has an artificially small military because politicians are afraid of getting coup'd too.
>>61437798Russians and Chinese can fit a 30mm gun and a 100mm gun on their IFVs. The Israelis manage to fit a 30mm gun, 60mm mortar and multiple ATGM in their turrets.
It won’t be the warrior. The unstabilized gun and 3 round clip would be bad for Mexico
>>61452470where's the mortar on that image?
>>61436429American junk on discount
>>61436466>>61450716>Parsmade me think it was iranian
>>61454326There isn't one. The internal 60mm mortar is in the Merkava II onward. However, it's not hard to integrate a small breech-loaded mortar into a turret, compared to a gun. You just need space for ammo + space to swing it + a hatch in the roof somewhere.
>>61457172The mortar is the tiny thing right above the coaxial MG. It's short, manually operated and breech loaded.
>>61457662I stand corrected.
>>61457662aha, i remember seeing it in an old video about merkava.but they supposedly want an unmanned turret with 40mm AND mortar.
>>61459206The turret on the Eitan and Namer is already unmanned. It just has a single ready round in the 60mm mortar and you have to stick your hand into a hatch from the crew compartment to reload.
>>61436429The tracked vehicle will probably be a mid range version of the Lynx, CV90 or something Korean. Germans have a gigantic manufacturing presence in Mexico so can pull wild strings to get Mexico some top tier shit with tech transfers and local factories. CV90 is the second choice because it's cheap and suited for Mexican terrain a bit better and Brazil can export it to Mexico easily under friendly terms. Korean is also an option because their vehicles are set up to fight in similar terrain and the Koreans have a positive industrial and social relation with each other and the Koreans can probably do something like the Germans, plus their options are amphibious which is something Mexico seems to like. We'll probably see the final competition be something like what the Australian Land 400 bid was between the Lynx and Redback but Mexico will likely go with more simplified lighter weight versions. Wildcard would be Mexico buying a cheaper Turkish option like the Tulpar or ACV 15/19 which also would be a good option given Mexicos flood prone mountain terrain.For wheeled vehicles I think the Eitan and the Pars are the best bets. They both have heavily armored variants which can mount a 40mm gun, mortar and ATGM at the same time. Israel already has a good partnership manufacturing armored vehicles in Mexico. Turkey however offers more capabilities at a lower price point and now also has a lot of MIC relations with Mexico as they have been licensing Mexican drones to sell as entry level drones under the Bayraktar and have been integrating Mexican aero tech with NATO standards. The Guarani 8x8 version which is probably similar to the Super AV or new USMC 8x8 is the last choice. Though it's built by Brazil, a fellow Iberoamerican nation and would share parts with both Brazilian and US vehicles, it's expensive and would probably come with political strings attached.
>>61445386Hamas and Iran are finally going to defeat the IDF, just two more weeks! The last 75 years of muzzies getting annihilated have all been a feint!!!!!
>>61436429Mexico fucked up trusting the French over the Germans. The Germans offered Mexico a full license to build HWK platform vehicles including 20mm, 57mm, 90mm and 105mm armed vehicles but Mexico decided to trust the French who killed their auto industry and then failed to deliver joint venture military projects. Mexico was the first country outside of Europe that the Germans offered their tanks to but Mexico squandered that.
All that just to get BTFO by some cartel
>>61460947Cartels get absolutely wrecked by the arm constantly. They literally complained to the UN that the army was being too brutal towards them lmao.
Has a modern South American country ever gone to war?
>>61463624Last international war I can think of is the Argies and the Bongs in the Falklands, other than that only low intensity conflicts with cartels and paramilitaries.
>>61459771How would the acquisition of large numbers of RPGs by cartels affect this analysis? If cartels and paramilitaries were to respond to army purchases by acquiring, for example, large numbers of RPG-22s, would this be a serious problem for the Mexican army? Could this be solved by application of APS and armour modules?As of 2000, the British press reported the price for black market RPG-22s, bought by the Real IRA, as "£150 to £220 per launcher" or about USD 180-270.I wouldn't like to roll through a populated Mexican slum, where every window could be hiding an RPG.
>>61466996Narcos already have RPGs. They've even been found with Kornets smuggled in via Central America.
>>61459771KF41 most likely because the Germans have a lot of industrial clout down there and recently the Germans have stopped nitpicking about their buyers use of them.
>>61436429How many pesos to buy one of what’s being replaced?
>>61470183They'll probably scrap them or give them to the National Guard who will never use them and let them sit for another 20 years.
>>61445386
>>61436466>AMLO ordered the army not to escalate the conflict in Culiacan becausebecause he's been in the narcos pockets since 2006. bought and paid for.>Mexican Army coup whenvamanos, cabrones. sacar los despericidios
>>61466996>a serious problem for the Mexican armyno. literally nothing the cartels do is a serious problem for the Army. it spanks them in every single engagement. The few cartel memebers that were trasined, like the Zetas, couldn't carry that over to their cartel 'troops', and the cartels are totally ineffective against any legitimate armed resistance. RPGs would simply up the number of hilarious accidents, which wouldn't be a bad thing necessarily
The cartels are already using drones. I guess APC's would be good to use on road blocks for civilians. The cartels will use a $500 drone to drop a 60mm mortar shell onto the fancy armored vehicle with the big sexxy 6 wheels..
>>61470697The autocannons are to ack the drones. Also new western ifvs mount active protection systems
>>61436429Upgunned Bradley would be a good option for Mexico but it would probably come with bullshit political strings attached so would be a no go.
>>61472177>it would probably come with bullshit political strings attachedUsually those strings relate to using the equipment in offensive wars, Mexico has renounced war and hasn't deployed abroad since ww2 - no concerns there.
>>61472474Hey cut it out you bean chuds or we'll sanction you! Using those tanks against narcos is an act of offensive warfare! They only rape and murder because the Mexican military patriarchy forces them to be criminal degenerates! Sicario lives matter, from Rio Grande to Cortez Sea, Sinloa will be free!! *Sharts xerself violently* - Senator Roberta/o McDonalds-Kleinberg-Gudalupe-Hidalgo-Hong (D - California)
>>61471988The Mexicans better invest in APSs, because the turret reaction time, against a drone flying across a street at roof level, will not be fast enough.In fact, if Ukraine has shown one thing, it's that everyone should invest in APSs.
