France's Aarok Advances Toward First FlightThe french MALE to be co-built in ukraine has had successful ground tests. It can carry le hammer and other funny frogge munitions. https://linkedin.com/posts/turgis-et-gaillard-industrie_communiqué-de-presse-turgis-gaillard-activity-7185907913255702530-aUMI
Looks really cheap made lol. What are those bulges?
>>61451782Floor models of UAVs are rarely the actual craft. They are mostly replicas. Basically sculptures made by modelers based on whatever info the manufacturer discloses to them.
>>61451782Speed bulges
Seems like it would be equally useless against a peer enemy with AA capabilities as the TB-2. So it's only usecase is bombing insurgents in MENA. Since France already has Reapers in service and Eurodrone on order, what is the realistic usecase for this Aarok drone?
>>61451916Being Le Drone, made in France.National control over your MIC. That's about it. Oh, and jobs in your country rather than in the USA.
>>61451940France already has the Eurodrone on order which will be made in the EU.I guess the Aarok will be exported if they can find customers
>>61451971The Eurodrone is extremely expensive, and frankly overkill for a lot of potential missions. It's an 11-ton behemoth. Aarok is a domestic alternative to the Reaper. It keeps MIC tech and salaries in France.
I wonder why all these late-comer UAV companies can only do civilian planes with the cockpit chopped off. Is it cut costs to the maximum for 3rd-world customers? I can understand Turks putting out that kind of shit but the French? Maybe it’s trying to compete on price as hard as they can while still offering a technological advantage?
>>61451916They're retiring their reapers by 2030.
>>61451916Here's how our French lizard brain works :>Reaper : proven but old and American (bad! that means being cucked by Anglos. De Gaulle is rolling in his grave!), not even European : good enough for now, will retire by 2030>Eurodrone : European, so semi-foreign (passable but not ideal, means being cucked by Germany), expensive and vaporware. Not even considered.>Aarok : new, domestic (fantastic! That means French tech, French jobs, ensuring complete autonomy from foreign powers. Eternal God Emperor De Gaulle upon his Golden Throne is pleased) and is flying soon. Approved!
>>61452075All true, stop sucking off the Americans.
>>61451916>>61452075France will literally rather pay double price than buy and use American gearHeres an AH-64/Eurocopter comparison to help interpretation of French hatred for American equipment and development >Year 1984>France "We need le advanced attack helicopter">France "We do not want le Apache because we can build le better helicopter for cheaper!">2 years later, 1986 the program has already cost so much and gone so little that it gets cancelled>1986 Apache enters service>1987 the program is reorganized>1991, 7 years after original program begins, 5 years after Apache is in service the EuroCOPETER tiger makes its first test flight>1992 Germany almost pulls out of the program completely, risking cancellation again>1999, after 8 years of floundering off the hope of a Turkish buy-in to the program (Never happened btw) France and Germany play their orders>2002, 18 years after the original program, 16 years after Apache enters service first Tigers delivered to France>2013 French financial report releases EuroCOPEter price >Eurotiger cost per unit: 106 MILLION DOLLARS (Including development price for France>Apache cost per unit: 55 MILLION DOLLARS
>>61452075Here's how the US lizard brain works:>bad! stop trying to be independent from the USA re: military technologies! Miss Liberty sheds tears at the thought of Lockmart, Northrop Groomer, I ain't Goeing shareholders!
>>61452140>>61452075Obsessed, God forbid countries to try to develop and produce stuff on their own without USA approval.
>>61452161>Willingly paying double price for a worse helicopter >Probably paying double price for a worse drone I appreciate the frog autism, cant wait to see to see the 40 years of HK416 replacement development
>>61452140Apache and Tiger are two different philosophies. Tiger was intended to replace the Gazelle, which an very light recon helicopter.
>>61451971The Eurodrone is 2 time bigger and German almost managed to make it "unarmed" cause "muh remote killing is evil". Someday they'll sellout again, ditch it and say they'll buy american.The Aarok would be much cheaper, armed, and can be sold without Germany trying to sell their own ass to competitors.Personally I'm more looking forward a nEuron wingman (European yes) and the likes.>>61452140Blame Germany, they are the ones who cheapened out and kept forcing that Attack copter didn't need anti-tank missiles, it's like they never wanted it to actually fight anything with it.
>>61451756Nice. The Aarok is a completely private initiative from a small company called Turgis & Gaillard. Safran being their main supplier for potentially every onboard systems. Dassault or Thalès have nothing to do with it.For the cost of three Eurodrone you could theoretically acquire twenty Aarok. The Aarok is not supposed to compete with the Eurodrone, yet its very existence makes Airbus seethe to no end.Oddly, Safran, which has also produced a surveillance drone called the Patroller, based on a German Stemme ASP S15 motor glider, sees no problem with the Aarok and is ready to ally with Turgis & Gaillard, since Safran have had problems fixing the Patroller for years, especially after it suffered a crash during an acceptance flight which pushed back the commissioning date by two years.So it's possible Safran recognizes they're not good with airframes and let someone else, like Turgis & Gaillard or whoever really, provide dedicated airframes on which Safran could fit its onboard systems without needing to do too much integration work.>>61451916It's supposed to be way simpler and cheaper than an MQ-9. Also less capable.It may very easily become fully French using only Safran onboard systems, especially the engine.>>61451971The Eurodrone is at risk of failing. Its costs have already doubled from previous estimates. For instance, the Bundeswehr was recently complaining that Dassault had not progressed with the Eurodrone's Flight Control System which prevents the critical design review phase from starting, putting the program at risk. But Airbus had not transferred any specification data to Dassault, preventing the latter to begin working on these FCS, despite complaints from Dassault to the OCCAR about it.>>61451990>I wonder why all these late-comer UAV companies can only do civilian planes with the cockpit chopped off.The Aarok is not based off a manned aircraft.
>>61452173And is keeping an industrial base and knowledge on some high end hardware who can potentially lead to succesful product and best-seller in exportation.Did you miss the part where France is the second biggest weapons exporter? If the top brass where systematically shrugging and choosing burger the moment they see it as a cheaper deal, there would not be any weapon sector left in France nor Europe (which will almost systematically be the case, merely by sheer economy of scale, the USA will always propose a better bargain).You're just upset because some countries don't behave like burgers's vassals and are trying to do their own stuff.
>>61451916Front facing propeller probably gives it more speed and useability against enemies that should have loads of AA but can't really use it competently.
>>61452243You're overthinking this anon. It's just easier. Turgis & Gaillard specifically said they aimed for something simple and cheap.Of course there will be limitations, notably no front mounted EO/IR Gimbal.
>>61452161Not either of those anons. I wouldn't care if other countries weren't so inept at doing it.
>>61452075>FrenchAnd by 'French', you mean 'the barely francophonic melting pot of germanics, basques, bretons, catalonians, maghrebians, levantines and negroids.'Very domestic, much wow.
>>61452238Considering what happened to British aviation industry after the 1957 White Paper, the frogs making their own aircrafts is objectively the correct decision.
>>61452238>When you make 30 billion in sales off the equipment developed>When you spent 25 billion developing just to make worse equipment than burgers
>>61452156>>61452117>>61452161>>61452075 here, I was not ironic. This is litteraly both how I think and how we should do things. I was merely using monkey speak because I've noticed how Americans cannot grasp the basic concept of sovreignty no matter how much I've tried to explain in civilized discourse. >>61452156 conveyed it best. Désolé pour le quiproqo, nique les Yanks, nique les Popov, nique les Chleus, vive la France!>>61452284You are either a B'it'ish Paki, a Kraut T*rk, a thirdie, a Chink bot, a Mutt or a "savior of the white race" Pussian or maybe that obssessed Dutchman from the Bastille Day thread, and you're using memes from 2010. Ta mère la pute.
>>61452301>5 billions added value for the trade balance + kept the country military and technology sectors up to date + provide tens of thousands of people well paid jobs.And the issue is ...?
>>61452258Okay, so it looks like a civilian aircraft with the cockpit chopped off because that’s exactly what it is. If you’re goal is to reduce costs as much as possible you’ll design someone based on a proven existing design and modify it; that way you can use mostly off-the-shelf components in the aircraft industry and reduce development costs across the board. You’ll end up with drawback like if you want this off-the-shelf engine it only works in a front mount configuration.
>>61452362>Our rafael replacement will be French/German>Our helicopter is French/German>Our Leclerc replacement will be French/German>Our gun is just German>It is all objectively worse than burger equipment>At least we made 5 billion! ****Profit under review after UAE scandalVery cool I am glad France has kept their weapons industry sovereign so Turkish men in Germany can profit
Someone give me back the 5 min or so I wasted on this mouthbreather.
>>61452380Yeah let's go all American, tank our industry, become the Yank's little bitch so that once the US completely retreats from Europe to focus on China, we'll be left with our dick in our hand because all maintenance for our helos will be in Shanadipapok, Indiana
>>61452192>Blame Germany, they are the ones who cheapened out and kept forcing that Attack copter didn't need anti-tank missiles, it's like they never wanted it to actually fight anything with it.come on Pierre. I'm German and I admit our country's defense policy is bad. But it was France that dropped out of the PARS-3 LR development, not Germany. Germany wanted the Tiger to be a tank hunter, France wanted a general purpose attack helicopter.
>>61452401>once the US completely retreats from Europe to focus on ChinaThat may be the strangest fan fiction I have ever heard, what reality do you see this happening in
>>61452353>you're either [desperately wide net]Nah>memes from 2010I didn't use a single meme.>Ta mère la pute.See? That's what I said: "barely francophonic". This isn't even correct frogspeak. What are you? An Algerian-French mongrel who thinks he's better than the rest of the darkies?
>>61452410https://www.irsem.fr/publications-de-l-irsem/breves-strategiques/strategic-brief-no-65-2023-us-withdrawal-and-european-strategic-autonomy.htmlhttps://ecfr.eu/podcasts/episode/how-europe-can-prepare-for-americas-withdrawal/https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/03/09/europe-must-be-ready-for-us-to-leave-nato-diplomats-warn/
>>61452435Wtf is wrong with yuropoors, america should let you free riders rot
>>61452435>If Trump gets elected!!Big if>He threatens to leave NATO!!If Europe doesn't uphold their agreement of 2% military GDP expenditure>He's super serious guys!!He does not uphold campaign promises
>>61452443Oh my
>>61452443I rest my case. We must not rely on yank shit and have our own domestic industry. We ensure our sovereignty, you save your money. We can be allies but we shouldn't be codependent
>>61452443By all means, you're welcome to bring your zogbot occupational forces home any day now. You're not scared about what would happen if Germany was free again, are you?
>>61452075you should compare it to US arms procurement, which will always be a tussle between the MIC, DoD and some senators or congressmen. European contenders with European export products stand no chance in this environment.
>>61452485Im very concerned actually there seems to be a significant animal rights concern, their tigers are going extinct!
>>61452443Why PPP?
>>61452443>trying to put a wedge between two western allies>PPP copeoh yeah its thirdie time
>>61452502It makes third worlders look bigger
>>61452443The main problem here is that Europe is not a single centrally governed nation. The EU can issue directives, but it has no executive power. If a member nation doesn't want to go along with what the union is doing, there isn't much the union can do to force them.So, the only situation Europe can actually use its economic power towards a unified goal is if all the member states agree. Not just on what the goal is, but the exact steps needed to get there. So far, this has never happened.
>>61452495Don't you worry, we'll take care of them.
>>61452284>>61452412NTAholy fucking seethe
>>61452502>>61452507>>61452508Pull your weight faggots
>>61452380SCALP is majority French.H160 is French.French don't use tanks.The gun on the Franco-German tank will ne French.You are mentally ill.
>>61452445Pivot to Asia was started by Obama, was carried on by Trump and is only slightly delayed by Biden. China being your main rival is a historical trend, not some political party thing. Anyone with eyes can see that you've been reorganizing your forces and furbishing your gear for a war in the Pacific.Relying on you for our defense was not only shameful and lazy but now it's not going to last. Industrial sovereignty is now the only way for us.
>domestic production... LE BAD!!!why is /k/eddit like this?
>>61452546Amerilards who cannot comprehend the difference between an alliance and an annexation
>>61452542>America is going to abandon its largest trading partners and closest allies so it can doom stack Asia1) For what?2) Actively not happening America has been rotating more troops into Poland than ever before since 20223) So what? Obviously Russia is not a threat anyways
>>61452542The focus on Asia/China started with Bush Jr. America pushed for an exemption for India by the Nuclear Suppliers Group. The QUAD (1.0) was formed under his tenure. Obama's "economic arm in Asia", the TPP, was an evolution of Bush's P5. The push for reform to ITAR towards allies started in the final years of the Bush Admin and now many years later you have AUKUS.
>>61451782>The french MALE>MALE>What are those bulges?What do you think they are?
I think it looks cool
>>61452530I'm a Croat, we killed our jews.
>>61452612Yeah, the racer look on military equipment is always cool looking.Rafale is so dear to me because it looks like a muscle car from the front.
>>61452234I avoided saying Turgis & Gaillard because it's an awful name to english speakers. Turgid & Gaylard. I'll use it if they get big enough for people to recognize "T&G".Didn't know the rest tho, thanks.
>>61452075wtf the french brain is actually based?
>>61451756>Reeeeee Stop relying on our military stuff>Reeeee Buy our military stuffWhy are americanoids like this?
>>61452630You still have 495 too many, according to wiki.
>>61452643Did you mean to reply to the OP? Because that makes no sense. I haven't even read the frog v. kraut debate yet.
>>61452634Pronunciation goes like:>https://translate.google.fr/?sl=fr&tl=en&text=Turgis%20%26%20Gaillard&op=translateRegarding the info, glad to be helpful.>>61452371>Okay, so it looks like a civilian aircraft with the cockpit chopped off because that’s exactly what it is. If you’re goal is to reduce costs as much as possible you’ll design someone based on a proven existing design and modify it.As I previously said >>61452234 the Aarok is not based off a manned aircraft.It's a simple design that is not unstable, easily steerable, which reduces risks, challenges, and costs. Yes it's going to use several off the shelf components, obviously, but it's not an existing aircraft modified into a drone.
>>61452665Yeah I speak enough basic french to say it right. Didn't want the thread to be 300 samefag replies about the name.
>>61452406>come on Pierre. I'm German and I admit our country's defense policy is bad. But it was France that dropped out of the PARS-3 LR development, not Germany. Not him, but I'm glad seeing how poorly it performs.>https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/PARS_3_LR#Kritik>In June 2006, the Federal Audit Office criticized the high costs of procuring the rockets. Taking development into account, a single shot would cost around 1.3 million euros. 680 rockets were ordered on June 30, 2006 for 418.8 million euros. >The need for these rockets was announced in Germany in 1982.>According to another report from the Federal Audit Office from 2019, the first guided missiles from series production were only delivered at the end of 2015. The operational test only took place in 2018, when over half of the rockets ordered had already been delivered.>At the request of the Army, the test was conducted at the White Sands Missile Range in New Mexico due to the high temperatures prevailing there. This revealed significant defects in the PARS 3 LR. Many of the missiles “lost their assigned target after being shot down and chose a new target,” which would endanger our own and allied troops and civilians in an emergency. Overall, only 16 percent of the missiles hit their target during the tests in New Mexico. >The PARS 3 LR only met the requirements in one of the twelve operational scenarios. The Federal Audit Office therefore recommended to scrap the brand new rockets.>This means that the Eurocopter Tiger attack helicopter is in danger of only being operational to a limited extent in the foreseeable future, as the HOT guided missile used so far will only be available until 2027.[6]France bought the American Hellfire despite le burger and le national pride and are happy with it.France has also stopped financing the Akeron LP, a missile formerly known as MHT, which is just a bigger Akeron MP without optic fiber and a funny looking seeker. pic related.
>>61452646That's okay, they are basically our insurance that we aren't a fascist state.We pay them to read their little scrolls and insult us once a year publicly and we get peace of mind and western recognition.
>>61452693Why the decision on the Akeron?
>>61452643>American presence in Europe le bad!>French industrial, economic, political, and military hegemony in Europe le good!Why are fr*gs like this? Frenchoids are impossible to work and compromise with even for other large European nations. They end up completely wrecking any joint procurement programs with the krauts/bongs with unreasonable demands that leave no benefits for their partner nations. Every single attempt at intereuropean military/industrial cooperation (save for a few successes like MBDA) have ended with a fr*nch chimpout and billions wasted.
>>61452075>Eternal God Emperor De Gaulle upon his Golden Throne is pleasedNot even French, but how could anyone ever come to the conclusion that this wouldn’t be based?For ages the US was exclusively buying American, why is it a bad thing if others do so themselves?
>>61452380No it's not objectively worse you fucking retard. You realize that like 1/4 of shit US army uses is licensed euro products right?EU defense sector is second in the world and if they only ever bought American none of that would exist. Look how great buying asian electronics is working for US. American electronics sector is pretty much dead and Intel is 3 soon 4 lithography generations behind with 7 billion annual loss. Euros are being smart here.
>>61452693I'm aware of the poor performance of the PARS 3.I'm just pointing out that the exact opposite of what the guy I replied to actually happened. No, it's not Germany that always withdraws from joint projects, France has done so on several occasions too, be it the PARS 3 LR, Boxer, or Eurofighter. And it was Germany that wanted the Tiger primarily as a tank killer, not France.
>>61452697Money money money. And also this guy who don't give a fuck. They're already planning to cut the defense budget given the terrible situation of the French economy.
>>61452722>JEWS JEWS JEWS JEWSGod, do you /pol/estinians ever shut the fuck up about jews?
>>61452723>pedo victim trannyfucking globohomo bankerThat's just another cohencidence.
>>61452284>only white dude is from the foreign legionKek’d
>>61452757lel>inb4 there is no replacement don't trust your lying eyes
hhmmm... i wonder who could benefit from slandering france online and creating divisions in europe and america to keep their focus off ukraine?
>>61452710>I'm just pointing out that the exact opposite of what the guy I replied to actually happened. No, it's not Germany that always withdraws from joint projects, France has done so on several occasions too, be it the PARS 3 LR, Boxer, or Eurofighter. And it was Germany that wanted the Tiger primarily as a tank killer, not France.No worries, you are right. The PARS 3, supposed to be called TRIGAT in France, was supposedly too expensive. Then, years later:>"Guize guize oui nide le missile"France has a hidden talent to fuck itself over.>>61452870Lemme think.The eternal bong of course!Or am I missing something?
>>61452234>Safran, which has also produced a surveillance drone called the Patrollersome guys on Twitter say that the Patroller is shit and burdened by administrative shit, same for the Aarok. Is this true?
>>61452234where do you get all these infos btw? insider or website?
So we gonna talk about the drone or just argue?
>>61452708Lol point out this 1/4th of army equipment pleaseM4/XM7/XM250 is AmericanStinger/Tow/Javelin is AmericanM109 is AmericanM777 is AmericanHIMARS is AmericanAbrams is AmericanBradley/Booker is AmericanHEMTT/FMTV/M1070 is American AH-6/AH-64 is AmericanUH-60/CH-47 are AmericanMQ-9 is AmericanThey most significant non-American piece of equipment in American inventory is the Belgian M240. a 27 pound machine gun being replaced by an American 13 pound machinegun thats objectively better
>>61452554more like thirdies pretending to be "american"
>>61452722No, they are mostly employees of the state and work on Holocaust studies and their religious activities. It is a form of bribery we willingly accept.Our media is owned by us and Germans, our banks are owned by Italians, Germans and us.
>>61452921M777 is bri'ish, Abrams is bri'ish-german
>>61452921Literally just go to the list of US army equipment on wiki and look at flags. And that's not even the full picture because often parts like engines or electronics are licensed.
>>61452919No point, wait for another thread or make one, seething brishitters and sharts destroyed this one.
>>61452944I don't think many Germans own banks, anon. Plenty of (((Germans))) do, though.
>>61452973Don't gaslight me.I don't fall for the jew boogeyman myth.You probably never even heard of the banks I am talking about.
Turgis et Gaillard also proposed solutions to turn the C-130 or A400M into gunships with racks for bombs and stuff
>>61452949I'll give you M777 even though America re-designed almost every part for easier manufacturingAbrams is not German at all, America threw out every single part of MBT-70 program that had German involvement and the M256 is almost a complete redesign of the RH-120 nor does M829 or any of the other American 120 ammo have any German involvement >>61452950Sorry I forgot about Denmarks 3 MCV 910sThe Bongs 3 JSFUSouth Africas contribution of 20% MRAP fleet between RG-31 and RG-33 thats being replaced by MATVSAnd of course the thousands of Austrian glawks that sit in commanding officers holsters to never be used and are being replaced by American handgunsThe only thing on the list I missed thats actually important are that every non-self propelled mortar is a British/American or Israeli/American collaboration
>>61453002>You probably never even heard of my local croatian bankOf course I have not. But I'd be surprised if the Germans you're talking about weren't jews, married to jews, or have their kids married to jews. That's typically how it goes.>gaslightThat implies that it is unreasonable and fictitious. Pick three random western countries and check each of their top three financial institutions and top three media companies. There will be a disproportionate number of jews in top positions there.Hell, didn't your country get bombed by (((Wesley Clark)))?
>>61452917Specialized publications, sometimes behind paywalls, watching video interviews and so on. The French defense press is a small world, with some insiders dropping nuggets of info from time to time, but they rarely reach the english-speaking audience, which is why their point of view is rarely discussed. Sometimes they're spreading rumors and falsehoods too, so as a simple enthusiast you have to always double check. To put it simply the French have no idea what modern PR is.
>>61453119>>You probably never even heard of my local croatian bankI wasn't talking about my local banks.I am talking about largest banks in CE and EE, owned by the Germans, Austrians and Italians.>But I'd be surprised if the Germans you're talking about weren't jews, married to jews, or have their kids married to jews. That's typically how it goes.No, it does not.>That implies that it is unreasonable and fictitious.Correct. >Pick three random western countries and check each of their top three financial institutions and top three media companies. There will be a disproportionate number of jews in top positions there.That sounds exhausting so I did that for 3 largest companies in France and checked their individual board members, which was not fun and found a total of 0(zero) jews.You are full of shit, stfu with your low IQ trickster character shit.I hate jews as any /pol/-ack but I ain't gaslighting myself into thinking they rule the fucking world.
>>61452911They're definitely right about the Patroller which is both late and too costly, had to be adapted from a civilian platforms with no ties to the defense industry, had to jump through hoops to get certified, and has suffered a crash which pushed back its acceptance into active service.But we don't know about the Aarok yet since the thing has not even had its maiden flight.They're right about the administrative shit though, but even then the overzealous DGA is getting shafted more and more these days to allow for more agility and speed. The DGA is great to manage big programs, small ones not so much.Additionally, the point Turgis&Gaillard made with the Aarok is that you don't need Airbus Dassault or Thalès to have plans for a MALE drone. Which is priceless in France right now since it opens the door for other small companies who otherwise would not dare to step into this market. So, all in all, it's already a win.
>>61453263NTADo you think they will get the orders in sufficient numbers to make it cheap?Because if it's cheap and adopted by the French en masse, it will get export contracts but I doubt that will happen if the French military mothballs them for years.
>>61453253>FranceTopkek of all the countries you could try to gaslight about, you picked one of the jewiest ones in Europe. Just off the top of my head:>Blum>Sarkozy>Zemmour>Bollore (married to a jew)>Rothschild's entire french branch>Macron (holds jewish religious rites at l'Elysee)>Borne (current PM)>Dreyfus (Le Monde)>the Dassault family (Figaro and more)>Benny Levy (under the goy-sounding alias Pierre Victor; Liberation)
>>61453312Did as you said, found no jews, fuck off.Not replying to you anymore, goy slave.
>>61451782Looks like a thin fiber/aluminum sheet cover. No need to be made out of thick material so it buckles easily.Worrying about things looking perfect leads to products that are heavy bricks.
>>61453002>I don't fall for the jew boogeyman myth.shit brain, brown stinking disgusting shit brain
>>61453328>don't trust your lying eyes, goy slave>b&>t
>>61453501the faggot posters that plague this place are surreal, literally who are they, and where did they come from?
>>61452833>3 people is a representative sample of a country with 68 million inhabitants
>>61453019>>61452921M240, M249, M320, AT4, M777, M119, M120
>>61453498Search "trickster character" on "Jewgle" as you call it.Your brain didn't move past prehistoric times.>>61453523You came from /pol/, go back.
>>61453208holy shit it's actually fucking huge
>>61451756Meanwhile somewhere in Caucasia:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stk6mqz08sA
>>61453672I would be disappointed if it doesn't carry 10 tones at least.
>>61452704>Every single attempt at intereuropean military/industrial cooperation (save for a few successes like MBDA) have ended with a fr*nch chimpout and billions wasted.Except for Aster, Meteor, FREMM, Horizon, Ariane 5, Concorde, and many othersCope harder, fat lard
>>61453280>Do you think they will get the orders in sufficient numbers to make it cheap?>Because if it's cheap and adopted by the French en masse, it will get export contracts but I doubt that will happen if the French military mothballs them for years.It depends upon a lot of factors.SITREP:• the MQ-9 is not going anywhere. France has ordered 18 so far and should have 15 at the end of 2025. Just today it was revealed the 9 block 5 currently in service finally are cleared to fly above French territory.>https://www.opex360.com/2024/04/20/les-drones-mq-9-reaper-block-5-de-larmee-de-lair-et-de-lespace-sont-enfin-autorises-a-voler-en-france/• The nice guys from General Atomics, they notably replaced for one symbolic dollar an MQ-9 one of their own drone pilots crashed back when French ones weren't authorized to land them, have made proposals to the French Air Force and Navy based upon the Sky/Sea Guardian. However these are expensive machines and France is still broke despite the military budget being doubled• The Eurodrone's program review is in late 2024. If it fails, it may be become too dangerous for its partners (France, Germany, Spain, Italy) to keep going. 18 Eurodrone are supposed to be acquired by France.• The 28 Patroller are finally going to gradually enter service, but they're unarmed.• The French remotely operated munitions market is booming with many new offers, which will reduce the dependency upon MALE drones.• Finally Dassault is in charge of designing a stealth UCAV which will have to enter service in 2035 to assist the Rafale F5. This decision irritated Airbus since they're supposed to be the ones in charge of such a UCAV within the frame of FCAS.In the middle of this mess, Aarok stands as a plan B.It is designed to be armed. Cheap. Easy to modify. Dependable. Attritable.Basically a no bullshit option without a chip on its shoulder.1/2
>>61454288>>61453280(cont 2/2)The Aarok could therefore be purchased in small numbers for experimental purposes. And if it is combat-proven in a timely manner, as for example in Ukrainian service where we can't spend three years ensuring that the aircraft is 2000% safe for civilian navigation like we do in western Europe, it would open up new horizons. The thing has been specifically designed to lob Safran-built AASM Hammer missiles, albeit with a reduced range due to its low speed, and Turgis and Gaillard want to co-manufacture it in Ukraine, as reported in the OP. Meanwhile, Ukraine currently receives 50 AASMs per month, and this quantity could double by 2025, and the Ukrainian F-16s will also carry this weapon. Food for thought.If things go according to plan, the future of the Aarok could be brighter in France. However there is a psychological barrier to doing business with the French: if a product made in France is not successfully adopted by a foreign country, the French consider it a failure. The case of the Rafale is very telling in this respect. Before: hated beyond reason by the press. Today: loved beyond reason by the press. You can't make this up.Selling the Aarok therefore seems complicated, but as Safran succeeded in selling its Patroller to Greece very recently, anything looks possible. Especially since there aren't many offers for low-cost armed MALE drones in Europe at the moment, except the not-so-European Turkish offers.There, my two cents. I may be wrong so don't take it at face value.>>61453672Maybe the guy's very small?
>>61453557Also special forces use practically 90% EU guns.
Looks cheap
>>61452443>>61452453GDP in PPP to make china bigger...how often china goes to hairdresser or calls for plumber to use PPP?it makes sense when comparing individuals purchasing power - but makes little sense on national level
>>61452693>>61452697>stopped financing the Akeron LPAre you crazy or did you get lost in the change of name?France have 400 of them and want 3000, plus a few for other countries.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akeron_MPhttps://www.thedefensepost.com/2023/05/02/france-akeron-missile-tiger-helicopter/https://www.thedefensepost.com/2022/10/10/france-eurodrones-akeron-missile/>France to Equip Eurodrones With Akeron Air-to-Ground Missile>>61452406Again, Mr.Merkel it's like (you) never wanted it to fight anything.German's vision of the "tank hunter" Tiger was only as a glorified manpad carrier only using the underperforming PAR-3 (of course France dropped this failed project) but now Germany want to retire the Tiger to buy.....APACHE! a "General Purpose Attack Copter", using the missiles the French made the Tiger capable of firing.So as typical Germany were only working on the Tiger to give themselves the illusion of making their own army, then jumped on the occasion to sell themselves to American lobbyist to become dependent of the US, again.(at this rate they'll also ditch their tank industries to buy American)France doctrine is to make the Tiger actually useful, making the mk3 able to use more missiles (a necessity if you want to export it).It would have been retarded to make an Attack copter and not try to make it VERSATILE.Part of me believe the German just have a retarded rivalry with the French. France don't want to depend on Uncle Sam? Well given the choice Germany would rather bow to the US to get weapons than admit France are superior in some industry.
>>61452410Not him but >Demographic decline of White Americans continues >Import the third world, become the third world >Every aspect of the US' industrial, political, military, and foreign policy apparatus declines as the country becomes increasingly brazilified >Brownies also tend to be anti-NATO, anti-West etc. Of course France also has their own homegrown demographic issues but that's beside the point.
>>61452117>Least insecure frogfag
>>61455207Anon, it is the Akeron LP we are talking about. Not the MP.>https://www.mbda-systems.com/product/akeron-lp/The LP, previously known as MLP, MAST-F and still labelled as MHT by the French authorities, is supposed to be a bigger, RF guided missile with a tri-mode seeker. Semi active laser, IR, and TV. There were talks about a milimetric wave radar seeker too.
>>61455605I did misread a bit, but the MLP is going to be built from the MMP.MBDA design is modular, using similar par from the MLP.https://www.occar.int/news/mastf-first-akeron-lp-missile-trials-successfully-completedI don't know what that anon heard about it but given recent event it's sure not going to be cancelled.
>>61455797I did misread a bit, but the MLP is going to be built from the MMP.It's a very different missile anon. Some elements may be common, but both the propulsion, the seeker, the link between platforms, will be vastly different.>MBDA design is modular, using similar par from the MLP.>https://www.occar.int/news/mastf-first-akeron-lp-missile-trials-successfully-completedModular to a certain extent, yes, but you can't fit a truck inside a Twingo.>I don't know what that anon heard about it but given recent event it's sure not going to be cancelled.Did you miss the fact the Tiger Mark 3 is not going to be fitted with said missile?>https://www.opex360.com/2023/11/28/porte-au-standard-mk2-lhelicoptere-dattaque-tigre-nemportera-finalement-pas-de-missiles-akeron-lp/Oops.Yeah, the principal platform of a missile is finally not going to receive such missile. I wonder what it could mean for the missile's future.Just saying. Make of it what you will.Maybe the Akeron LP will be saved by the Aarok's need for some ITAR-free Hellfire. That would be a happy ending, but for now, I wouldn't be overly optimistic.
>>61452353>Désolé pour le quiproqo, nique les Yanks, nique les Popov, nique les Chleus, vive la France!The Fr*g has started to croak its disgusting tongue again. Here we go. Next, it will do something profoundly retarded abroad which will require America to bail them out. Again.
Unpopular opinion since they are co produced by Ukraine they would be capable of operating under a EW and air defense density that most Western drone were never tested for
>>61456656Bouffe moi le cul, Ahmed
>>61451916>army of the airFucking french they deserve the hate.
>>61452353>nique shut up Marseille fag go rope yourself
>>61452140As usual, Europe develops new military technology but as soon as it stops being a jobs program and starts needing serious investment in unit production, they ghost you and the development costs get divided by 1/4th of the original production run, making every unit 3-4x more expensive than it should've been.So the Tiger was developed to be at least half the price of the Apache, if produced in the predicted numbers. But Cold War ended and Europe doesn't have sandboxes to play in.
Why are the france like this?
>>61454288>>61454435Hmmm, so it will be very much "touch and go" type of situation. Hope they don't put all their eggs in the Ukrainian basket since Russian SHORAD has been eating up these non-stealth drones and we haven't heard much from Bayraktar and others in a while.
>>61457198>Europe doesn't have sandboxes to play inYemen, Iraq, Syria, Lybia.
>>61456804Big question mark. There's only so much you can do to make a MALE more survivable in saturated airspace. It's definitely in ukraine's interest to make this deal regardless of whether it can be flown anywhere their TB2s currently can't operate.
>>61455207>paragraphs of incoherent seething about Germany and the UStake your meds.Germany wanted a tank killer, France wanted a light combat helicopter.France dropped out of the ATGM development, not Germany.Germany is not buying Apache as of now but H145M with license produced Spike.Germany is not buying Akeron because France fucked over Germany with PARS 3 LR.
>>61452921Did you think Carl Gustav was an American name?
>>61458532>Germany is not buying Apache as of now but H145M with license produced Spike.H160M is a superior heli and will be standard French military rotary wing craft.Imagine supporting jews instead of European superior products because your government is pissy about something.
>>61456598>It's a very different missile anon. Some elements may be common, but both the propulsion, the seeker, the link between platforms, will be vastly different.I'm quoting MBDA FYI and it's not the first weapon they do like that.Some part are easy to make so visually it may look 70% different but as complexity go you reuse 70% of the actually hard to make part.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAMM_(missile_family)>Did you miss the fact the Tiger Mark 3 is not going to be fitted with said missile?I actually did miss that there WON'T be a Tiger mk3, only a mk2+.Guess Ukraine show pure attack copter to be not worth it, even with complete air superiority you'd need to stay out of range of manpad and everyone is now rushing anti-drone weapons that would work very well on attack copter.>the principal platform of a missileYou forget the Eurodrone but if they don't have the money for the Tiger, they may not care to make a longer range missiles that was mostly needed for platform that didn't have extra speed.Beside, they'd do it only after reaching final state of the MMP.
>>61458532>France dropped out of the ATGM developmentJust like the UK did before, guess why.The only error France did is that they didn't have interim LR missiles, but hey, who is gonna start a war in this age, right?>Germany is not buying Apache as of now>as of nowAnd you deny that German are notably unreliable?Germany is not buying Akeron because it would mean admitting France don't need them.
>>61458613>>61458711I just find it amusing how you frogs will go around claiming Germany is unreliable when the exact opposite is the case with France having dropped out of the joint ATGM project. You talk about European sovereignty and buying European, but what you really mean is French sovereignty and buying French. Kindly fuck off.
cool it has a propeller
>>61458993Isn't that super noisy and easy to detect even with a ww2 radar?
>>61459082actually it would cut the radar waves in halves.
>>61458862Je ne suis pas français and there is a clear pattern of projects involving Germany where they are a junior partner failing.
>>61459299I don't care if you're French yourself or just shill for them out of your own volition. It's not a contradiction to say that German defense procurement has its flaws while the French are egoistic and hypocritical faggots about their defense policy as well. Btw there are examples about the opposite too. Boxer is one. First it was a German-British-French-Dutch program. UK dropped out because they thought they wouldn't need it, only to now order 500 of them. France dropped out because their own inferior design wasn't chosen, now they have the VBCI without a single export customer. And the Boxer is selling like hot cakes.But all you ever hear is frogs or their little retard shills like you crying about how Germany is so egoistic and anti-European because it doesn't suck up to France at *every* opportunity.
>>61451782OwO
>>61458387none of these operations ever justified attack helicoptersyou should've said Françafrique.- there are no tanks in Africa.
>>61456933>From (1386) Middle English armee, borrowed from Old French armee (cf. modern French armée), from Medieval Latin armāta (“armed force”), a noun taken from the past participle of Latin armāre (“to arm”), itself related to arma (“tools, arms”), from Proto-Indo-European *h2er- (“to join, fit together”).>Armed force of the airI don't see the problem.
>>61459352All Boxers have an inferior gun, maybe it would have the CTA40, making it infinitely better, if you were nice to the frogs.>And the Boxer is selling like hot cakes.IFV market is oversaturated.
>>61459418Not operators, wars.These are countries in which France alone operates.
>>61457325Based you mean?
>>61459596sure, that's why everyone is getting it with 30mm autocannons.
>>61452173>the French>conquering SyriaThe bongs conquered Syria and then gave it to the French so they wouldn't cry.
>>61457881Wait and see. Ukraine is like a big laboratory for future warfare so anything that works there is kind of a safe bet.>>61458637>You forget the EurodroneEurodrone which I just showed >>61454288 was not safe from being cancelled until the end of 2024 and its critical design review phase.Which means no Akeron LP on the Tiger, and maybe no Eurodrone at all, while the Aarok is far from being secured since the thing has not even flown yet and has just gathered a polite interest from French authorities, nothing more.Yeah, no, sorry, that doesn't bode well for the Akeron LP.>>61458711Germany has bought and manufactures Israeli Spike missiles. They can also buy American like they do since 1955. They have options.
>>61459679Everybody is stupid.
>>61452075Fuck off, americuck.
>>61458862That "joint ATGM" is literally just Germany, to be launched from a chopper they don't want anymore.Of course France left to work on an ATGM they intend to integrate into everything they own.Germany next ATGM? "let's just buy plans">>61459352The insufferable frogs argument don't hold when the frogs are right 70% of the time (and insufferable only half of the time).>BoxerSee MGSC below, France would work WITH Germany AT THE HELM if Germany let them.But the Deutschland still don't want an "European army", they just want markets where they "beat the French" or buy from lobbyist.Here's a list:Tiger, pretending Germany wanted the glorified carrier is retarded since now they want what would have been the Tiger mk3.Eurodrone, if it was up to Germans it would not be armed.Maritime patrol aircraft, German can't even give work to their own industries despite it being their only motivation.Eurofighter, it was built solely for air combat with no plan for ground support, Germany is blocking sales of what is basically a DEFENSE aircraft that would fund their own industries.SCAF, Germany are the one slowing it down because they don't want a partnership, they want to rip off France of their know how.Giving them a pass for the F35 even if Germany should rethink anything nuclear.MGSC, France is giving them almost full control to get it done right but Germany is so short-sighted they don't want number they just like having control of the market.Finally, Ukraine, if left alone Germany would have limited themselves to "NON-LETHAL AID". Still trying to pour money on the problem without taking hard decision.Oh and what kind of retarded governor don't understand the principle of strategic ambiguity? Learn to bluff even a little, don't fucking straight up tell Putin he'll have a clear way if he can beat Ukraine.
>>61454245>Ariane 5lol, lmao even
>>61461297Let's be real, Germany is just trying to apply the China way. Stealing technologies and engineering feats through the pretense they have the industry to mass product. Can't fault them for thinking that way, it seemingly werked for Chyna. What they didn't grasp is the West don't doesn't really care to give Chyna the means to copy cheap plastic shit and phones. While military secrets are a big no, for obvious reasons. Though that didn't get into their heads somehow. Not that it's surprising, we're talking about a country that phased clean energy on emotions and burned 500 fucking Billions into "renewable energy" for results that are even worse than before on every conceivable metric, an amazing feat. All while jumping right into Ziggers arms, at that. Can't expect rational thinking or future-planning, there. I fault the soviet GDR rapebabies for this, but in 2 or 3 generations it should be on the right tracks again.
>>61461625I disagree but we can't discuss this without getting pol.China is actually trying (and succeeding in some aspect) to understand the tech so they can develop it themselves.Germany philosophy until recently was "there will always be someone who can sell us the weapons/plans to us" regardless of how often it is shown that supply line can be disrupted.I wouldn't mock Germany for "going green" the error was not including nuclear as green and being so politically weak their own minister sold out to Gasprom/Russia.Anyway,Hopefully Germany was now slapped awake, are willing to spend huge money on defense, the only problem is making them accept a close partnership with France were both countries do what they do best and accept to work with each other. Given that France is willing to let Germany do all the development for ground vehicle, the ball is on the German side.But France can't afford to be bossy/picky either.Aarok is like a divine lifebuoy falling from the sky.
>>61461877This guy gets it.
>>61461297so much lies and projection, impressive. Germany has supplied Ukraine with way more aid than France has btw. But making retarded statements about ground troops that nobody takes seriously surely makes up for that, lmao.
>>61462051>Germany has supplied Ukraine with way more aid than France has btw.like what? broomsticks?
>>61462057several Patriot and IRIS-T batteries, Gepards, Marders, Leopard 2, PzH 2000, M270, counter battery radars, AESA radars, all kinds of smaller support equipment. France has sent jack shit in comparison. Muh European sovereignty.
>>61461877>I wouldn't mock Germany for "going green" the error was not including nuclear as green and being so politically weak their own minister sold out to Gasprom/Russia.It's because a lot of the modern-day environmental movement has been hijacked by subversive elements. For example, Russia funding/astroturfing for the greens and promoting anti-nuclear activism, as said policies invariably make Germany reliant on Russian gas.t. actual "nuke India and convince them China did it" environmentalist
>>61462051Germany threw money at the problem.Yes and?As actual equipment go, France send almost as much (not more but still) and is taking step to FIX the problem by encouraging a strong European army.Political statement matter, they engage the country making them. Like how everyone shit themselves at what the Donald say because he is incapable of planning more than a month ahead and he and his followers work on impulse: example today with the Aid to Ukraine.I believe Macron would actually send russian-killing troops if an opportunity to put the foot in the door appear.>>61462074>Muh European sovereignty.German's fault.What you listed yourself is a third US-made, a third are European equipment French sent in the same quantities, and France provide a lot of missiles along artillery it's just that US grab all the attention.https://www.defense.gouv.fr/en/news/french-military-equipment-delivered-ukrainehttps://www.bundesregierung.de/breg-en/news/military-support-ukraine-2054992If Germany finally accept to work with France on Rafale & MGSC, the next war EUROPE could send an entire army from the same manufacturer with an easier logistic.Only reason France didn't send their own MBT is because it factually made more sense to train Ukrainian on Leopard tank. (also it would attract attention to the fact France don't produce them anymore, probably betting on MGSC)Next post I'll refrain from such big post, gotta keep the topic more focused on French drones
>>61462525>t. actual "nuke India and convince them China did it" environmentalistPlease don't, India are the only ones with the manpower to actually counter China in a war economy.And don't take your plans from the donald.
>>61462593Ergo the "convince them China did it" part. A few hundred million dead thirdies would do wonders for the planet, the oceans/fishing stocks in particular.
>>61462573>As actual equipment go, France send almost as much (not more but still) and is taking step to FIX the problem by encouraging a strong European army.you're a good comedian Pierre, keep it up.
>>61462684You're killing the wrong thirdies anon.Indians are harmless in comparison with Africans and Middle easterners.
>>61463188Them too hahaI am LoraxI speak for treeWhat says tree?TND!
>>61452354rocket mounted on a fuel tank?
>>61463188Interacting with Indian shills on /k/ has more than convinced me that India deserves nuclear annihilation. Nice try though.
>>61463216My sides
>>61463290That's the landing gear housing anon.
>>61464207I'm glad you like my poetry anon.
>>61462525the greens were not a russian ploy but an US one to stop germany building nukes. It cost the chancellor back then his carrer and us germans our nuclear future.Also I am pretty sure the other neighbouring nations helped funding the greens the Soviets aswell as all destructiv elements like this are like petri dishes for commie shills
>>61464880Sauce? I don't want to imply that they were entirely a Russian ploy obviously, when it comes to shady shit/election interference/propaganda there are different power blocs with their own respective goals, as well as the character and culture of the targets of said subversion. I wouldn't put it past (((glowies))) to desire a denuclearized Germany.
>>61452075I don't see how one's initiative to develop their own country's MIC to be able to stand on their feet as a bad thing so why not.
>>61464207dafuq was happening in the original clip?
>>61462684Inevitably fail because India had the tech to take on China and you end up with both China & India working together against your obviously racist ass dumber than thirdies.Also captain planet would know a firsty citizen pollute far more than 1000 thirdies combined.Wrong choices all the way anon.
