seeing this webm even though it was successfully used I see how many bullets he had to fire and he was still moving makes me think I need more stopping power than a 9mm what do you guys think?
>>614816719mm is worthless
>>61481671I shot a deer with a .308 at 20 yards. Perfect vitals shot. It ran 100 yards through the woods before collapsing. I guess .308 sucks for deer. If you don't hunt deer with .416 Rem Mag or bigger you're fucking stupid.
>a bunch of non-fatal shots to the ass and stomach/backwhat did you expect?>>61481700agreed, .25acp chads rise up
>>61481717but what if the deer shotback in that time
>>61481717Naw man, .22 Hornet has killed thousands of brown bears and polar bears. You just should have aimed for the head.
>>61481717>not using .408 CheyTac to hunt deer
>>61481717>>61481729There, I just summarized all replies to this whole retarded, repeated, beaten-to-death dead horse thread.
>>61481717>doesn't hunt with 20x102mmNGMI
>shoot guy>he starts rolling on the ground incapacitated instead of getting gibbedWTF
>>61481765It wasn't a critical hit
>>61481774Cop kept rolling 1's.
>>61481671so I need to carry more than a mag of 9mm for self defense
>>61481671If they didn't know 9mm is worthless they wouldn't have asked for .40 S&W to be invented. 10mm Auto will be the standard autoloading pistol cartridge once they figure out a gun that can really tone down its recoil without downloading the cartridge. Believe me
I thought the black guy dived on the floor but the cop kept shooting him anyway at first. Can't wait for it to be edited down and circulated as 'cop executes black man in street'
>>61481799They keep shooting if the perp keeps hold of the weapon. Wouldn't you?
>>61481799this shooting was a few months ago anon, and they did try, but it was already shown before hand that the nig had a knife and tried to stab the person he was on top of
>>61481788“Stopping power” is a myth as it relates to handguns, not necessarily all guns. The reason is because the wounding mechanism changes based on multiple factors. Primarily those factors are cavitation, permanent crush cavity and kinetic energy transfer, in that order. Cavitation is almost nonexistent with most handgun cartridges, and kinetic energy is really only applied to the body parts the bullet comes into contact with, not the entire body.So what you’re left with is permanent crush cavity. In that mechanism the bullet construction has the most impact with modern defense loads. Decades ago HP bullets were unreliable, so the bigger the caliber the better the odds on effectiveness. **Today’s HP bullets are so good that the difference between 9mm, .40 and .45 acp are within the statistical margin of error. **Yet even the most highly rated handgun loads can’t compare to a 5.56 rifle shooting a tiny 55gr .22 caliber FMJ. That’s because the velocity which is 3 times faster than common handgun loads is doing most of the work. Depending on barrel length and bullet weight, the biggest detriment to 5.56 is range. A 62gr M855 round fired out of a 14.4” M4 is highly effective at close range, but not so much past 300 meters unless it hits a major nerve or artery.We use handguns for self-defense because they’re literally “handy”. In all cases where a rifle can be used practically, it’s a superior choice.
>>61481671If you want a bigger bore then carry, but train with it. I specifically carry 10mm because I'm more worried about some lone fucker on bath salts than some prolonged hollywood shootout with multiple people.
>>61481809It's from 2022.>>61481671Sauce on the incident?
>>61481723something to reach the spine
>>61481866Indeed. If you're in an N. Holly style shootout, you've already lost before you began.
>>61481859You are severely underestimating how devastating the kinetic energy transfer part is. Permanent crush cavity will get someone to die much faster but energy transfer will get him to stop shooting at you real quick. In a crash, G forces/inertia alone fuck you up, no external injuries or cavities required there
>>61481788the recoil really isnt that bad once you practice. The real bitch is the ammo cost.>>61481859all valid points, but also as 9mm improved so did the bigger stuff.
>>61481889Ammo cost will lower when more people start asking for it
>>61481671Yea, but people will look at you weird if you OC a rifle or shotgun everyday and unless you're carrying a spicy loaded .44 magnum you aren't gonna get meaningfully more out of a handgun and then you're dealing with way more recoil. Handguns are a compromise. If youre worried about outliers then the answer is working more on marksmanship, not side grading to a caliber that does mildly more work while recoiling mildly harder.
>>61481886>muh energy dump>muh hydrostatic shockbe gone thot>captcha kdyslmao
>>61481906>muh energy dump>muh hydrostatic shockPretty much
>>61481671guns and bullets are not accurately portrayed in media at allyou don't magically die when you take a shot to the kidney 10x, no it doesn't do -10hp each shot kek
>>61481881I remember watching it live. fucking wild
>>61481788Hot loaded, small grain bullets on a .40 already reach 10mm velocities. Something like a Steyr M9 with a built-in compensator would probably tame it really well, especially with a flashlight mounted underbarrel to further bring the muzzle rise down. 9mm is fine, stopping power is pseudoscience and the only real way to stop a fighting to the death attacker is a round to the brain stem or heart.
>>61481671>Guns don't work like in the movies STOP THE PRESS
>>61481671aim good hit hard a big reason why people in wild west states use .45 and up
>>61481777are... are these Quarians....?
>>61481671after 2 rounds the target rolled off the victim, mission accomplished immediately. the fact that he had so many rounds left to shoot that worthless motherfucker is a selling point for 9mm in my opinion.
>>61481671https://www.police1.com/officer-shootings/articles/why-one-cop-carries-145-rounds-of-ammo-on-the-job-clGBbLYpnqqHxwMq/>At the core of his desperate firefight was a murderous attacker who simply would not go down, even though he was shot 14 times with .45-cal. ammunition – six of those hits in supposedly fatal locations.
>>61481788how does LE switching to .40 prove that 9mm is worthless, yet them switching back to 9mm not prove it good? you dumb shit.
>>61481671>fired 15 rounds>1st 6 rounds weren't CoM, he shot ass-level to avoid ventilating the chick underneath the knifeman>round #15 was the 25-to-life-money-shot for a 'civvy'>had 15 rounds to begin withidk this could have been over much sooner.
>>61482227ORLY
>>61481671
>>61481700>9mm is worthless! Reeee!>video evidence shows that it worksLike clockwork
>>61481671>need more stopping power than a 9mmYou should get a 5.7 to make fudds seethe
>>61482227That tweet isn't wrong though. Too many pseuds think that coming up with retarded perfectly "rational" scenarios that would destroy the plot post hoc is a legitimate form of critique.Not to say that poorly written characters can't act retarded to a degree that ruins your watching experience, but it's a from of criticism that requires the critic to not be acting in bad faith. This is clearly not the case with that stupid ass game because most of the hate coming towards it stemmed from the seething culture war retards who never played it and are desperately latching onto any excuse to call it bad.
>>61481809>2022-11-06>few months agoSure feels that way
>>61483374>le heckin bad faith>le stinky culture war >:(Fuck off back to r*ddit, nigger
>>61481809the video quality of OP is kinda jittery and shit, i clearly remember seeing the nigger holding a knife attempting to stab the girl a split second before the bullets hit him. it was her wriggling on the floor that gave her one or two precious seconds the nigger had to deal with getting a hold of her, enough for the cop to get a good angle and start firing
>>61483285>only works after 12 shotsYeah bro haha totally
>>61483536it worked right from the first bullet. the rest was him ensuring a long-term solution to this specific nigger-problem
>>61481859>>61481671> Today, I will remind them...
>>61483526But it's literally bad faith. The original guy is intentionally making a fallacious comparison. Peter is not invincible like Wolverine and MJ is not a random civilian, she's a character who is deeply sympathetic towards him. It's dumb that Peter isn't already 2 meters away with MJ in his arms by the time the attack was this close (unless he had his spider sense disabled somehow), but MJs actions are perfectly reasonable and there's plenty of media that features weaker characters sacrificing themselves for the hero which, rightfully, doesn't get any flak for that.It's all just sad fucks trying to pretend that a somewhat boring and mediocre thing is some sort of a crime against storytelling.
>>61483592>blah blah blah I hate white people and capitalism
>>61481671The FBI spent millions of dollars and several years studying the most effective sidearm calibers for their agents after they got BTFO in the Miami shootout. Their conclusions were .45 Super and 10mm were the clear winners, and briefly adopted 10mm as their new agency standard. Then a bunch of beta males and female agents said 10mm had much kick for them to handle, and they had to go back to the drawing board and came up with the cucked .40 S&W cartridge instead, completely defeating the purpose of the studies.
>>61483557brb, trading in my .45 for a .22
>>6148355738 special chads we can't stop winning!
>>61483557I am curious what that average world look like without the shotgun>all other calibers a handgun with the rocky exception of .22lr>all shotgun gauges grouped in a single column Imagine my shock when a long arm puts people down better. In fact you could argue that is why .22lr is so high, it is in rifles much more often than any of the other calibers.This chart sucks.
>>61483704Lmao you are a stupid nigger.
>>61483751You should try actually reading that "study" you're talking about lmao
>>61483557So, 9mm is the worst choice besides .32, got it. Also this chart is useless, since all of these cartridges are not used equally as much, as proven by .22lr being so inflated (most common cartridge by far)
>>61481788>figure out a gun that can really tone down its recoil without downloading the cartridge>just ignore physics broIf the rest of your post wasn’t enough to see you’re retarded, you made sure to include this to remove all doubt. Thanks anon. >inb4 compensators and steel framed gunsYes I’m aware things exist to mitigate recoil. Comps might be an option but that adds a little length and bulk and is even harder on the ears. Heavier and bigger guns also lower recoil, but then you have to carrier a heavier and bigger gun. A stronger recoil spring could help, but then you can have reliability issues with certain ammo or with a compromised grip. You can’t have a stronger round and less recoil without other trade offs.
>>61481859> We use handguns for self-defense because they’re literally “handy”. It’s amazing how many people overlook this. I blame video games and movies
>>61481886> In a crash, G forces/inertia alone fuck you upThis might shock you anon but cars produce much higher energy levels than bullets
>>61483889>just ignore physics broYou are the fucking ignorant retard here. The cartridge is not the only thing that affects recoil. Bolt mass, length of travel, acceleration, receiver shape, buffer springs (hello AR-15, MG-42), bore axis, center of mass location, bolt direction of movement and mechanism of action (Luger vs C96), etc.>you can’t have a stronger round and less recoil without other trade offs.Mike has shown that Sig and True Velocity have blown your opinion out of the water>compsYou can comp the gun and still make it quieter
>>61481859>“Stopping power” is a myth as it relates to handguns>**Today’s HP bullets are so good that the difference between 9mm, .40 and .45 acp are within the statistical margin of error. **This whole "magic bullets" thing has always been 9mmanlet cope. Bigger bullet = bigger, deeper holes = more bleeding = more dead. End of story.
>>61481671Should have used a 45mm Glock & Wesson.
>>61481717If you're not using 45 Colt as your woods deer rifle, then you're ngmi. 70 yards, double lung + both scapulas.
>>61481869>Sauce on the incident
>>61481869>>61481809>>61483535https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3oUjpmda7g&rco=1
Upshot of this thread is we still haven't topped John Browning's genius in the form of the 1911?
>>61481671>10mm>gas piston delayyw, may it kill many rape apes
>>61483557>Biden told everyone to get shotguns because he didn't want crooks to surviveBased
>>61483557seems a little unfair to put shotguns in with a bunch of pistols
>>61485658the chart is about shit that gets most often used in self defense situations
>>61483751> The FBI spent millions of dollars and several years studying the most effective sidearm calibers for their agents after they got BTFO in the Miami shootouThey could have saved a lot of money by telling their agents to not be idiots. Poor decisions is why they lost. Not because they had 9s and .38s
>>61483950But where do you factor in the amount of holes?more holes = more bleeding = more dead>end of story
>>61481788
>>61483938> Bolt mass, length of travel, acceleration, receiver shape, buffer springs (hello AR-15, MG-42), bore axis, center of mass location, bolt direction of movement and mechanism of action (Luger vs C96), etc.If you bothered to read what I wrote, you’d see I said “trade offs”. How is anything you mentioned not a trade off that results in a larger and/or heavier pistol or other downsides? If they won’t have any drawbacks, please explain what would need to change and patent that shit now. You’re clearly smarter than anyone else. > Mike has shown that Sig and True Velocity have blown your opinion out of the waterLol. Lmao even. What does 6.8 recoil less than in an equal weight gun firing the same ammo?> You can comp the gun and still make it quieterName which ones
>>61484316It has actually been perfected with the 10mm.
>>61485864This is true, but something like 80% of defensive gun uses end in two shots or fewer. It's better to make those two shots count, since every bullet you fire figuratively has an attorney attached to it. You don't have qualified immunity to just magdump at anything like a cop.
>>61481671Poking a 9mm hole in someone does not immediately kill/stop them unless you hit their brain/spine/heart/major artery and even then they might have a few seconds of life
>>61483997
>>61481671I counted 13 or 14 shots. Glock 23?
>>61481866The meth zombies in my area are what I worry about. Whoever cooks it puts some chilly p or something in it and they go feral
>>6148696814 shots, 12 hits. the upstanding anti-gun protester was swiss cheese after that
>>61481671who cares about stopping power when all cops mag dump anyway
>>61485805You do the study for 2 million, that gets used across the entire country, that possibly saves 1% of cops lives forever, possibly saving them more money in training for decades to come.Doesn't really sound like that's too bad a cost, and neither did the FBI.I don't think you understand how some of the world likes to think bigger than your town. 1-2 million is literally 1 persons life of wages, out of hundreds of millions, all to find the best calibre to save several other lives by killing criminal scum faster.
>>61481671the problem is higher calibers may pass through the black man and into the white woman he is trying to rape
>>61481671Threadly reminder that Stopping Power is a myth, in regards to small arms fire.You'd have more luck with different slug types than trying to make the shot a mil wider.
>>61481886Your understanding of terminal ballistics was generally considered correct 20-30 years ago, were in contention ~10 years ago and has stopped being widely regarded as how shit actually works.
>>61483950Except they don't actually produce a whole lot more bleeding, that's the point. .45 still has a use-case in that it does what 9mm does but can do it quieter. Other than that, every major handgun cartridge is within a few percentage points of each other in terms of efficacy on a target.
>>61481671Of course you do. If you're not using a 12 gauge or a rifle caliber, it's like you don't even want to kill what you're shooting.
>>61487296>.45 still has a use-case in that it does what 9mm does but can do it quieter.No it doesn't. .45 is way louder than 9mm.>b-but muh subsonicHow do midwits still go on and on and on about this? What year were you born, 1901? 147gr 9mm has existed your entire lifetime and been readily available in literally every gun store you've ever been to.
>>61481897>it will be competitive when the cost comes down>the cost will come down when it starts being competitive classic cycle
>>61481671>Oh NO da' NARC mang!>FUH FUH FUH FUH FREEZE!Don't spit, do not spit!
>>61483818Fucking retard doesn't understand "percentages".
>>61487167>the point>your headNo caliber would have change dumb decision. They had another team of guys nearby with SMGs and shotguns and there’s no reason they couldn’t have waited. Caliber doesn’t make a guy (who was a competition shooter) lose his glasses and become worthless. Caliber doesn’t make someone take their primary out of their holster, put it lose in the front seat, and then lose it onto the floor when they crash their car, leaving them stuck in a fight with a j frame. The FBI acted retarded and deserved what happened to them. Blaming 9mm was a scapegoat for poor performance by agents. >You do the study for 2 million, that gets used across the entire country, that possibly saves 1% of cops lives forever, possibly saving them more money in training for decades to come.That kind of thinking is why we’re adding $1 trillion a month to the national debt. Proportionally it’s small, but it all adds up. >Doesn't really sound like that's too bad a cost, and neither did the FBIThe FBI also dropped 10mm for .40, then dropped .40 for 9mm. So they also think their own study is worthless
>>61481859>We use handguns for self-defense because they’re literally “handy”. In all cases where a rifle can be used practically, it’s a superior choice.>>61483921My father always told me "A handgun is better than nothing, but its best use is to buy yourself time to get to a real gun."
>>61481774Cop should have taken bloody mess
>>61484027Holy shit that dude sounds whiny. Did everyone with balls quit after the Freddie Gray riots?
>>61483374it's called poor writting you dumb niggerif you need mental gymnastic to explain why your shitty story/characters act in such way then it's bad fucking writting made by retards for retardsgood writting would have a reason or explanation for it within the story while not resorting to asspulls
>>61483969Why did you post a picture of your asshole? This is a blue board, anon.
>>61481671>The other nog moving to be straight behind the guy getting shot
>>61483921>>61488171If you've carry something all day everyday, like a police officer or solider deployed in a conflict area but on office or base duties where the chances you need to use your firearm are small, carrying a rifle is a fucking pain in the ass. A pistol can be worn on the hip and you get used to it being there, even the shortest lightest rifle will be annoying after being slung across your body for a couple of hours.
>>61481700He starts shooting him in the legs initially until he rolls over
>>61481717People hunt deer and moose even with 30.06 where I live just fine
>>61485770The source of the data is sketchy as fuck, thoughever
>>61483885>Also this chart is useless, since all of these cartridges are not used equally as muchBased .22 hater who doesn’t know what a percentage is
>>614835575.7 bros, maybe our overpriced .22 clone wasn’t useless after all…
Beyond 9mm you run into serious diminishing returns when it comes to wounding potential Vs capacity and controllability.If anything 9mm is somewhat out of date and too large, and persists mainly because of institutional inertia.
>>61486991Yeah science, bitch!
>>61488918Explain what? That MJ's character who is clearly depicted as a heroic third protagonist is trying to save a person she likes? I won't argue with the idea that she's annoying and forced overall, but the scene is perfectly fine in the context of its story.
>>61483557.22 chads we literally cannot stop winning
>>61483285Sorry buddy, but if theres anything but a thin red smear and a cloud of giblets left after the first shot then it itsn't powerful enough.
>>61489563>>61487631>t statletsYes it’s a percentage but you aren’t accounting for variability with a small sample size. 1 of 2 total shootings ending in fatality would be the best performing round. Is the success because the guy is a great shot or got lucky and was the failure because of a terrible shooter or a bad caliber? If you have 100+ examples you get rid of more of the human variability.How many shootings do you think have happened with 9x23 Winchester or .356 TSW? It’s honestly probably zero, but if there were it’s almost certainly done by a competition shooter who is very familiar with that gun. Assuming they keep their composure, the attacker is dying 99% of the time. Does that mean it’s a better self defense round than a shotgun? Of course not. The fact that .44 mag is lower than anything .38 and .380 should be a dead giveaway that shooter skill and the number of occurrences plays a huge factor in the data.
>>61487296>Except they don't actually produce a whole lot more bleeding, that's the point.Yeah>An 85-year-old Idaho woman is being hailed as a "hero" for gunning down a home-invasion suspect with a handgun she kept under her pillow after he allegedly handcuffed her to a chair, pistol whipped her and threatened numerous time to kill her, authorities said.>Christine Jenneiahn survived the harrowing incident at her home near Blackfoot, Idaho, after being shot multiple times by alleged assailant 39-year-old Derek Condon, who died in her kitchen when the octogenarian turned the tables on him and shot him twice with her .357 Magnum, authorities said.>When the assailant went downstairs, leaving her alone in the living room, Jenneiahn told investigators she dragged the chair she was handcuffed to back to her bedroom to retrieve the gun she kept under her pillow. She told investigators she went back into the living room and hid the revolver between the armrest and cushion of a couch she was seated next to and waited to see what Condon did next, according to the report.>When Condon returned, he allegedly became angry with Jenneiahn for not telling him her son was in the house and again allegedly threatened to kill her, according to the report. That's when she lunged for her gun hidden in the couch and opened fire on Condon, hitting him twice.>Condon allegedly returned fire, emptying his 9mm pistol, leaving Jenneiahn with gunshot wounds to her abdomen, leg, arm and chest, according to the report.>Condon apparently collapsed in the kitchen and died while Jenneiahn remained on the floor of her living room bleeding and handcuffed to the chair for 10 hours until her son came upstairs and handed her the phone to call 911, according to the report.https://abcnews.go.com/US/85-year-idaho-woman-hailed-hero-fatal-shooting/story?id=109129775
>"shot placement">0/0 resultsnu/k/ deserves death.
>>61491278>I'm going to post a random picture and a random story>My anecdotes trump real research every time
>>61491312Post your research then.
>>61491321Here's a good primer/launching point: https://www.everydaymarksman.co/marksmanship/terminal-ballistics/
>>61491386That article is more about the efficacy of spitzer rifle projectiles vs roundnose handgun projectiles.
>>61491486Only if you speedread it. I said it was a jumping off point, it lists some research you can then examine for yourself for a more complete understanding. If you don't want to do that, and just want to argue because you're addicted to angst, go back to vidya lobbies.
>>61492191Did you even read it yourself? The only section of the article relevant to handgun projectiles was when it cited the Le Garde-Thompson Tests that proved larger-caliber bullets were better at creating permanent wound cavities and stopping charging threats. The rest of the article is about the wounding properties of rifle projectiles like .223 Remington.
>>61486669Just like every other common pistol cartridge.
>>61492448Okay, I see you're just being a cunt on purpose, and don't actually give a fuck about learning anything new. There's plenty in there about how wounding mechanics work generally to extrapolate for handguns. Very little of the info presented is only valid for rifles. Why do you have your ego wrapped up in ignorance?
>>61494013>posts a write-up mostly about .223 Remington>"umm ackshually it proves that 9mm is the same as 45 ACP despite the only mention of handgun testing concluding that bigger bullets are better"Nice pilpul
>>61494361>I'm going to completely ignore any and all information presented because despite all of it being extremely relevant to the topic at hand, it did not specifically mention 9mmYou're such a pedantic piece of shit.
>>61481700It's, like, 20 cents per round
>>61494361The way that word gets used on this website has permanently associated it with severe mental illness.
>>61488150Anon is correct.Your choice of caliber won't matter, if you cannot hit what you aim at.
This seems like the thread to ask:I'm looking for one (1) man, black, Hispanic or feminist to volunteer to take one (1) round of 9mm Luger 124gr +P hollow point to the chest from a distance of ten (10) yards with no body armor on. The results of this test will help in the new documentary I'm making about why the 9mm Luger is an ineffective round and should be avoided by the brave members of the Thin Blue Line. This could save the lives of many of our men and women in Protect and Ser- err- Law Enforcement.I'd be eternally grateful if one (1) of you brave souls would help me with this very important project. Thank you in advance, anons.
>>61481777TUMMYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
>>61481866I want a fat baby so bad, but my carry gun is 9mm. Is it time to sell some guns?
