What is important is for the bullet to get there and have enough force.
>Why is my bullet tumbling and pissing energy bad
>>61492672smaller area to larger forceits the same reason you want to hit a nail with the head of a hammer, not the side end of thread
>>61492672Bullets have a spike on the end which causes more damage.
>>61492672>>61492687heres diagram i made to further prove this pointif you can't understand this, God help you
>>61492672Who has the webm of the chinese shooting their fancy rifles and keyholing like crazy?
>>61492672Chinese bullets go side ways like their pee pees
>>61492921Get ready for Chang cope like rubber bullets, old training ammo, bad crowns, using plastic ammo, worn out barrels, etc.
>>61492941You firthy wsterners onry say keyhore bad because its against geneva convention. Keywhore is superiour stopping power
Catching a falling knife by the handle and the blade can result in very different outcomes despite the similar kinetic energy.
>>61492941The freeze frame at 0:08 might make for a new avatar . . .
It's a fucking warcrime
>>61493054no they're not, stop spreading misinformation you're as bad as the fucks that say exploding ammo is a warcrime, which, again, it is notyou're either under or over, the inbetween in "illegal"
>>61492941Honestly tho, that has to be rubber bullets right?
>>61492672In the off chance you're not kidding:>for the bullet to get thereThe bullet won't go where you want if it's not stabilized. See: smoothbore>have enough forceBullet bleeds a lot of energy when it's moving sideways.Your statement is correct. Keyholing is bad BECAUSE it won't "get there" or "have enought force". You got the right answer but didn't show your math and confused yourself.
>>61492672It's not a problem if you design a magazine in the shape of the infinity symbol. This gives you unlimited ammo. At close ranges, the tumbling can cause more damage as a whole.
>>61492745You need to stop posting here and go get a job at the DOD
>>61492745I know exactly what you’re trying to illustrate yet I cannot understand this diagram.
>>61493823>>61493834please seek help
>>61492745This is a meaningless image and you're trolling
>>61492672Its accuracy queens getting their monthlies, but daily. Keyholing is a natural part of firearm ownership. If your firearm has never keyholed, you're not shooting enough.
>>61496471if someone writes a full version of the ND copypasta with different keyholing stories then I'll send them a free autism diagnosis
>>61492941Please observe at 0:07-0:08 as the bullets fly sporadically and inaccurately at the piece of paper the Changs are shooting at from 10 feet away. Now scale that up to 100 meters and tell me anyone downrange would even remotely be in danger.
>>61493171More damage?
>>61492672Okay anon. Think that instead of a bullet, we have a football. Proper technique puts a spin on it, so as it travels through the air it is stable. Since it's stable a quarterback can throw pretty fucking accurately, and far.Now try to lob it by grabbing one end twisting your wrist so it tumbles end-over end. You can't get the distance and you can't really judge where it ends up.People ITT will bring up how keyholing hurts terminal ballistics (and it does) but if your initial ballistics are fucked I don't see why bringing up terminal even matters. You're probably not hitting anyway.
>>61492941You foreign devils don't understand communism. The bullet hast to travel sideways so all of the bullet hits something not just a few rich pointy points in top.
Wait so how is that fort scott munitions "TUI" ammo any different than whats being shown in the China webm
>>61492941Don't forgot "those holes are the bullets bouncing against the wall and coming back out"
>>61492672Tumbling bullets yaw and lose velocity much quicker. But yeah, in principle they could cause nastier wounds on flesh at close range (though it compromises other factors in lethality, a regular bullet hitting bone can shatter it while a tumbling bullet could just roll off it and exit out the back); its just that few people would be willing to have their gun throw boomerangs at significantly lower accuracy in exchange for the unpredictable possibility of maybe causing a wider wound cavity.
>>61492941>1ft CEP>at 10ydIs this the quantum keyholing technology?
>>61496671>chink in China’s armourThis hurts the feelings of the Chinese people.
>>61496818Weird, when Ive shoot at my targets with a wall behind them, they still don't keyhole or "bounce back." This poster feels of yellow fever
>>61493171Just wear a bandana.
>>61493051Here's one i made earlier
>>61497847Looks like Jomon physiognomy. Training the boys to shoot the Japs?
>>61497847Put two keyholes on the face and it'll be perfect
>>61493156Non Americans are famous for coping with their lack of budget by using substitute rounds for training. The fact is at the end of the day there's no substitute for training with what you'll use. We've found fuckers using plastic bullets, bullets with nylon cores but real jackets, wooden bullets, you name it. It's fucking pathetic.So even the cope explanation suggests they suck.
>>61493171>the tumbling can cause more damage as a whole.It's spelled hole.
>>61492672You won't hit anything further than 50ft because the bullet doesn't fly a predictable path. The bullet has excessive drag so it has more bullet drop and won't fly as far. Finally your penetration vs any armor goes to shit and soft kevlar will stop what's supposed to be a rifle round.
>>61497934No. Retard
>>61496497>Keyholing is a natural part of firearm ownership. If your firearm has never keyholed, you're not shooting enough.>be me>start a youtube channel talking about how to use a refrigerator as cover during a gun fight>develop a strong following among autistic heavily armed shut ins.>make video after video of high fuel, pure uncut 'Tism>eventually run out of shit to talk about but that scrilla is nice, yo.>take my Colt A1 rifle with A2 handguards (that I used to blow away some degenerate for eye fucking my wife property).>This colt has a one in twelve twist barrel.">like the absolute Stallion I am, shoot M855 through it>bullet keyholes, hit a rock, and ricochets into the upper thigh of one of my crew.>knowing full well that any disruption during filming means instant death, my chubby brother silently writhes in agony as I continue with my monologue.>I finish in one take.>my brother kept his leg.
>>61497950>Finally your penetration vs any armor goes to shit and soft kevlar will stop what's supposed to be a rifle round.Right, and that level of protection is so light it's relatively trivial and comfy to wear full near body, very much unlike plate. Putting some numbers on using 7.62 ammo, hitting straight on the point is going to be maybe 1-2mm across, and stays thinner as it impacts. So all the force behind it is concentrated in that area. Meanwhile a typical bullet is something like 32mm long, with a good 15 of that at least being the flattish side. If it belly flops, effectively the force is spread out such that it's as if it was like at least 8-16x weaker depending on exactly how it hits. And at anything over point blank the force will be way less on top due to far more velocity loss.Basically it'd turn even 7.62 into 22lr as far as concentrated energy on armor. So it'd be like all of your opponents turned into magical power armor super soldiers who could shrug off your bullets except they only need polymer to do it.
>>61493171>>61496970We clearly need CQB guns that keyhole on purpose.
>>61496671of course anon, also dont forget to fire the whole bullet, that's 65% more bullet per bullet
>>61496671Lol they did this on purpose
>>61497993>autism speaks
>>61497776Anon he was giving an example of something the chinks have said in the past, he wasn't claiming it.
>>61495115It would be good if there were a scale to the arrows for example the rectangle could represent a cannon ball but with a much larger arrow indicating more energy than the sideways triangle which clearly indicates a keyholing bullet. Unfortunately in this graph it seems as though a cannon ball & a keyholing bullet at the same velocity have the same amount of effect on target which is of course nonsense.
>>61492672Is this a somewhat amusing bait?
>>61492672>why is keyholing bad?What is important is for the bullet to get there and have enough force.
>>614967881. TUI means it tumbles upon impact, not before.2. TUI doesnt tumble at all, that's just a made up feature because they wanted to sell 9mm rounds that could punch through level IIIA kevlar out of a pistol length barrel.
>>61492672now this is a /k/ thread
>>61492941I remember some anon saying that they used training barrels of some shit for stuff like this and would obviously use real honed in barrels for combat. Is that a real thing or bullshit?
>>61492941It's not "chang cope" on the old training rounds, that's pure misinformation to what it actually is.It's old ammo (DBP10) meant for the previous generation of guns that they stopped manufacturing because even in the correct gun, it was shit for accuracy. The new rifle uses a different twist rate in the barrels. In short, shit ammo being used up in a gun that wasn't optimized for the twist rate. China being China can't admit anything was shit/a mistake and claimed rubber bullets after they realized how fucking stupid they looked to train this way and release the video.
>>61492745I’m having a fuckin laugh. Thank you poster of triangles
>>61492745>>61503971He can't even triforce.
>>61492672bullet no fly straight
>>61492745>>61493834>>61495115the bottom pane shows the force is concentrated when the bullet hits tip firstthe top pane shows the same thing but is the more general case. it's confusing because the top pane is redundant and the relation between the two is unclear when you first look at the image.
>>61492672bigger hole = bigger owAnon may be on to something here
>>61493156yes, its DBF07 a rubber bullet about half the length of an fmjbt and with a sort of hollowed out center. It really is amazing the lack of critical thinking people have these days. Like for real, do you actually believe that china forgot how to make barrels over the last 20 years? The most basic part of making firearms in the modern day?
>>61492701What if we put spikes on the sides?
>>61503690>>61506777So will you lads explain to me, the official Chinese state party twitter account that posted that infamous video deleted it afterwards. Why?And what fucking good is training rounds that keyhole into the shadow realm at less than 10 meters. Being le rubber bullets doesn't make it any less embarrassing and stupid.
>>61506923They deleted it because it still makes them look bad. The average normie is not one that can comprehend rubber rounds. And like many people here, folks think its the real deal and china cant make barrels anymore. The average chinese citizen who doesnt know any better would be affected by that propaganda more negatively than positive, so they removed it. But you guys might be right. Its probably more realistic to assume that china has forgotten how to rifle barrels.
>>61492745is this loss?
>>61492933I thought their pee pee went in your coke
>>61506777>>61503690The very fact that they have to use cope rounds (and not only cope rounds, cope rounds that don't even fly straight) for training illustrates their inferiority.
>>61507634The mechanicus started in China?
>>61507634>>61506777This is the real chang cope. You can literally see in the video the bullet outline in the lower-right neck of the target. Longer and with the boat tail evident. The shape and length are not that of the rubber rounds.>>61506923It's not rubber. That's the bug cope suggestion. They used shitty old rounds that went bang because they needed a video montage and it backfired on them and China's face can't contain the ridicule, that's all.
>>61506777 A practice round that at short range cannot be trusted to deliver even remotely similar accuracy to the service load(s) is the acme of bullshit. So in effect, what is being proposed is not that the Chicoms forgot how to make barrels, they forgot how to make ammunition that works in said barrels. Something that is pretty fucking hilarious in it's own right. (Image Unrelated)
>>61507846I don't disagree with you, because the alternatives (both the rubber bullet nonsense, and the idea that they're accepting guns that keyhole with the correct ammo) make even less sense.But it still makes no sense to me -- assuming the cutaway in >>61506777 is accurate, the DBP10 is a little longer than DBP95, sure, but it doesn't seem like an outlier, especially compared to tracers like the DVX12.DBP191 isn't shown there (and I haven't seen it anywhere else either), but it seems like it would have to be surprisingly short for its tracer equivalent to still be shorter/more stable than DBP10.And more abstractly, I don't understand why you'd loosen the twist rate on a new rifle, even if you're introducing new, shorter ammo. If you're changing to less stable ammo (like the change to M855/M856 in US service, and the corresponding M16A2 7" twist rate), of course you tighten the twist to work with the new, but then it still works okay with the old. If, on the other hand, you're moving to a more easily stabilized projectile, why wouldn't you keep the same twist, so it still works okay with the old ammo, as well as if you ever want to introduce longer projectiles in the future?
>>61507756Only when they make joke
>>61508100Supposedly they redesigned the barrels with more grooves (and larger lands) which prompted them to back off on the twist rate itself. That's the googled quote on it anyway.
>>61506777
>>61492745pic makes perfect sense to the point you're trying to make -ignore the other posters they're either foreigners or dumb brown people (note I specifically said >dumb< brown people)
>>61492745I can't tell who is retarded, you or me.
>>61492672Damn this is a pretty good troll post I seriously hope you're not actually this fucking stupid.
