>Hear forever about how awesome Frederick the Great is>Finally read some books about him>He repeatedly gambles his army in super risky battles and maneuvers despite knowing he lacks the manpower to adequately replenish his ranks when things go sour.>He forces his generals to do nigh-impossible tasks that he probably couldn't do himself and then dismisses them when they inevitably fail>He's as bad a backseat general as Hitler, routinely ruining the plans of his subordinates by giving them orders that are bad not only because he fails to grasp any military situation he's not present to but because his orders occasionally contradicted themselves. >He's surprisingly unstable. Despite his gambler's mentality, he tends to break down when his bets don't score a jackpot or at least break even. He threatens suicide at least three times and more sober heads like Voltaire or his younger brother Henry had to calm him the fuck down. After his whipping at Kunersdorf, he had a complete meltdown and Henry actually had to take over as commander-in-chief for a while.>The crushing victories he won at Rossbach and Leuthen were greatly owed to the fact that his opponents were largely incompetent political generals who got their commands thanks to connections to powerful women they knew. Prince de Soubise barely had any significant command experience prior to Rossbach which was his first battle as an independent commander. Charles Alexander of Lorraine is just ass - straight Luigi Cadorna-tier. Whenever Frederick fought competent generals like Daun or Saltykov, those "crushing victories" didn’t happen.>He ultimately survived only because the tsarina died and Russia sued for peace shortly after, instantly cutting Prussia's enemies in half and turning its two-front war into a single-front one. Basically, he got outrageously lucky at the last minute.Why is this guy put in the same class as Alexander the Great, Caesar, and Napoleon? He's mid as fuck.Plus, he's gay.
>>61585490>My hemorrhoids affectionately greet your cockhe was a /k/ poster
>>61585490>more sober heads like VoltaireNo wonder Voltie was the way he was
>>61585490Imagine not having Fortuna on your side.
>>61585490>Plus, he's gay.Why do so many great generals trend toward homoeroticism?
>>61585490Fortune favors the bold!
>>61585707>Love war>Women aren't involved with war>Be around men all the time>Big, strong, sweaty men>Marching with men, eating with men, sleeping with menIt's truly a mystery
>>61585490Napoleon paid his respects to him. You are just a homo on a mongolian basket weaving forum. Stay irrelevant and forgotten.
>>61585490Well the USA also did a shit job against the nazis but they won, so they are regarded as badass.Frederick won so he is regarded as badass, the difference being that he was an actual badass who won against the odds.
>>61585490Don't know, don't care. If Napoleon thinks you are great, you are great. Simple as.
>>61585745yeah it’s basically the same way buttfuckery became common in muslim societies
>>61585490>>Hear forever about how awesome Frederick the Great is>>Finally read some booksYou expierienced it yourself. People talk out their ass, but few people take the time to read the actual facts.
shit analysis that doesn't take into account the cost of doing the opposite of what he did.
>>61585490Lol even in his portrait he had crazy eyes
>>61585490if I remember correctly, he was praised not really for what he did in battle, but the mechanism behind the supply, logistics and bureaucracy of battle. While everyone else had a state with an army, he had an army with a state (i dont remember the quote precisely)
>>61585490Duke of Cumberland. Well regarded by Bongs for winning a single battle where he defeated a bunch of Scottish hillbillies he outnumbered and then got sent to the continent and beaten constantly by a poorly organized French army, losing almost all of Hannover before he was relieved of command. He was the guy who lost to the incompetents that Frederick the Great humiliated.
>>61585490This wehraboo idiot is not hated enough. Could have been remembered as the hero that crushed Prussia and saved all of Europe from the actual future we got where it waged aggressive wars of conquest for centuries. Instead he is rightfully remembered as an incompetent idiot who deserved to get couped and murdered by his own wife. If he's remembered at all, that is.
>>61585490>survives 6 years of war against France, Austria, and Russia with Britain as his only allyBuddy i really hope your myopism is a result of intellectual ignorance and not capacity
>>61586105>His mother didn't allow his wife to cheat until she got a grandson>Once he had a son his wife's infidelity became common knowledge
>>61585707Retardation.Any time one of them doesn't spend every free minute chasing skirts retards start ascribing homosexuality to them. Ultimately we have nothing to base those claims on.
>>61585490https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsPsEgHnHxg
>>61586105Everything you know about him is curated propaganda from his whore usurper of a wife who only got away with couping him because the Russian nobility hated his attempts at reforming and modernizing the country, and cutting down on serfdom and the power of the Russian aristocracy. Catherine, in comparison, was just a whore, a luddite, and a warmonger (she mostly killed Turks, so it's not that bad though).
Speaking of propaganda. This guy was not a bad commander. In fact, he was a good one. But protestant propaganda ascribes every single tactical and technological breakthrough of the era solely to him and it is still believed to this day. In actuality, he won two crushing victories against an old man, then died in a bloodbath stalemate against a commander who was a logistical genius but only an average battlefield commander.
>>61586398>In actuality, he won two crushing victories against an old manTilly never lost a battle until he fought Gustavus.
>>61586398Pretty sure most of those non-warfare achievments can legitimately be attributed to Oxenstierna. Dude was almost a protesrant version of Richelou, but couldn't really do anything after Gus got killed.
And speaking of 30 years war figures, its sad that Richelou was the only meritocratic go-getter to succeed. Fuck the Kaizer for killing of Wallenstein.
>>61586316>Be on the verge of winning a war>SurrenderFor this alone he was horribly incompetent.
>>61586595Geopolitical Tier List>God TierRichelieuOxenstierna>High TierEmperor Ferdinand IIIFrederick William of BrandenburgMaximilian I of Bavaria>Mid TierAugustus Elector of SaxonyFrederick V Elector PalatinateEmperor Ferdinand IIMazarinFrederick Henry Prince of Orange>Low TierGeorge William of BrandenburgChristian IV of DenmarkPhilip IV of Spain>Charles I TierCharles I of England
>>61586754Charles I maintained the dignity of the crown, which allowed it to return. Unlike in France, where the monarchy did not behave in a dignified way and permanently damaged its reputation such that even when it was forced back on France it didn't last long.
>>61585490>He's surprisingly unstable ... He threatens suicide at least three timesDrama queen. It was a cry for help.
>>61586858>literally forces his own execution to happen>happened entirely because he was too autistic to understand that divine right is just PR for the peasants>could have easily ruled just fine or kept ruling by just accepting minor concessionsHe deserves his own tier at the bottom of the list
>>61585490A lot of Confederate generals got inflated careers by Lost Causers after the war, but nobody's was as embellished more than Forrest. I still don't understand what's so special about this nigga. He's not as good of a cavalry commander as Sheridan or JEB Stuart. He's not as good of a raider as Grierson or Stand Watie. He's not as good of a tactician as Thomas or Lee. He's not as good of a strategist as Grant or Johnston. He's not as effective of a wildcard as Sherman or Jackson.I just don't get it.
>>61586754>>61587107Charles I vs Nicholas II, who places higher in Darwin awards? On the one hand, Nicky ultimately ended his entire line. On the other... Charles really should have fucking known better and he doesn't have the excuse of ruling a long-standing autocratic system.
>>61585707>Why do so many great generals trend toward homoeroticism?Some see it as a sort of Greco-Roman chad thing suppressed by weak Christian moralism which has enslaved everyone into thinking they're worthless sinners and should "turn the other cheek" and "forgive." But if you're unnatural and everyone hates you anyways, why should you care about what other people think? Do you give a rat's ass about ants? No, you don't? So why should you care what people (or the church) think of your sexuality? It doesn't mean you're heartless, you probably care about a lot of things. But that makes you better than the herd, so act like it. There's an opposition to crowd, a struggle with a danger, a loyalty for the body. Gays can be pretty ruthless in terms of interpersonal beef. "You're dead to me." I think a gay general would probably feel less bad about massacring his enemies.I think it's interesting that one of the most rocking Pride festivals is in Tel Aviv. It's not even really a gay thing as much as a hugely popular thing in the city. Hot girls go to it. And almost everybody at them have served in the army. It's a different story in Jerusalem, but I don't get the sense from the Israelis that they are "turn the other cheek" types. They're not Christians. It doesn't make them chad super warriors but, my God, they're ruthless and don't make any apologies for it which is galling to a liberal morality which is integrally Christian. Nietzsche might have been a closet fag and he thought that the ferocity of ancient peoples in battle was mirrored by the extravagance of their festivals, like there can be no love without the walls of hatred. I think there's a failure among their enemies to recognize this about them. There was some incel shooter who attacked a gay bar in the U.S. within the last few years and drag queens (including one military veteran I think) grabbed his gun and bludgeoned him with it. Tel Aviv:https://youtu.be/SYLtlBz2Zd8
>>61585707I think its less homosexuality, and more that generals trend to be more fruity, and fruity men are more likely to be homosexual. I mean fuck, Ike is a perfect example of a flowery feminine general.
>>61585707have you ever been in the army?it's EXTREMELY gay and if you lived your whole life as a leader of army you'd become gay eventually
>>61587971probably because he was rich as hell and could afford to influence public opinion and have people write positively of his time in the war.
>>61587971>forrestDude was literally the first big honcho of the KKK, no shit a certain breed of American sucked his dick for so long.
>>61586247His own father had his male lover executed.
>>61586858>His dynasty was deposed for good barely a generation laterAlso French monarchy did return and had the chance to return again after Napoleon III. The only difference is that the French monarchy fell because it tried to maintain some degree of absolutism while the British monarchs were fine being the national equivalent of a toy poodle.
>>61588030Charles. Bicholas was at least decent at geopolitics, Russia needed to intervene in the Great War to maintain national prestige, meanwhile Charles abandoned his son-in-law (whose descendents would marry into the Hannoverians and replace his male line) to the emperor while instead trying to prop up a doomed expedition to help the Huguenots resulting in military humiliation and financial crisis. Furthermore he didn’t just have the issue of being unable to balance royal and popular authority, he couldn’t even placate the Scots as a nation leading to the Convenanter War.Also there’s a huge difference between being deposed in the early 20th and mid 17th centuries. The Osman, Habsburg, and Hohenzollern dynasties fell not long after his dynasty.
>>61586247In Fredrick's case, it's pretty fucking blatant he had something going on >As a kid, liked to spend time playing with his sisters more than with his brothers and boys >Tried to run away from his mean old dad and live with his "best bro" in London >Confessed to his uncle that girls didn't interest him like they interested other boys>Never touched his wife or any mistress >Practically banished women from his court >Voltaire (who lived at Sanssouci), within French society, spread gossip that Fredrick was gay >Fredrick himself pardoned a man sentenced to death for fucking a mare (seriously) and jokingly justified it on the basis that Prussia offeted freedom of religion and freedom of penis
>>61589140>and had the chance to return again after Napoleon IIIThe story of how that didn't happen is hysterically funny. Many Anglophones are unaware of the inter-Bourbon family feud they had going on between the Orleanists and Legitimists, but basically they offered the throne back to a guy (Legitimist candidate iirc?) on the assumption that his heir would be from the other camp, as he lacked children. In the ultimate act of spiteful pettiness and "fuck you" to his cousins, he declined the offer using the flag debate as an excuse, thereby cucking out the rival family branch from the throne forever and pretty much ensuring they'd never get a second shot at it.
>>61585490>>Finally read some books about himNo, you didn't.
>>61587971He had some good raids.
>>61588667That would probably have a severe psychological effect of being told you can't do something through dad executing your boyfriend and making you watch. Frederick didn't seem like the kind of guy who liked being told he couldn't do things and he had a lot of audacity.It's about audacity. To draw this connection out a bit more, the Christians went on a crusade against drag shows recently and completely failed, because they didn't understand what they were going up against. The Christians see that as "sex" (because men wearing dresses) and that's a "sin," but that is their own misinterpretation that has more to do with them and their own ideology than it does about "gays" really. That wasn't really about gays or drag queens but the internal and ideological malfunctions of a bunch of Pentecostals right after Trump lost an election. Gay men by and large don't care about them, and they experience drag shows as like a competition to demonstrate audacity and relentlessness. It's like gay sports. They are a bunch of guys doing that... gay guys, but they're really just bros. Really. They're... you. Or most of the men who post on /k/. There's something weird about human psychology but something about putting on a mask or a wig can bring out more audacity in these men. But to succeed as a drag queen requires a similar mentality to this (this seems crazy, and I might be crazy, but I think that's true):https://youtu.be/DkGQscuQOR0?si=4_Hn-yHqDat1hKru&t=140
>>61589573Nigga, you think I made all this shit up or what?
>>61586513Not truehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Mingolsheimhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Mingolsheim
>>61588030Charles' own opponents in the Civil War bent over backwards and made every excuse they could NOT to execute him and to instead enforce relatively tame concessions, even after Charles had arguably caused the first civil war and DEFINITELY caused the second civil warDespite this, Charles conspired to make his own execution the only option available to the victorious RoundheadsHe had the arrogance of a victor even in total defeat. It is unfathomable that he thought, after years of civil war, that merely by the fact that he was King he was above negotiating.In short, he bought all the monarchist claptrap that was never meant to be more than cheap propaganda, and paid with his life even though very few relevant figures actually wanted to kill him.
So many battles with Frederick seem to have him commit some atrocious frontal assault, hugely outnumbered, terrible deployment failure, the enemy is laying down murderous fire and the Prussians are getting slaughtered… and it just doesn’t matter, the Prussian infantry carries him anyway and advances victoriously into the flame. You could put a retard in charge and they’d still win. Which I guess happened, Frix ran away in his first battle after all
>>61585490>big gay>entire unit dedicated to Big Gays>>61585707Prison Gay in an era where whores aren't allowed in the baggage train (or at the front as in our times).
>>61588040>how many layers of faggottry are you on troon? Lmfao. The Greco-Roman gay thing is a meme. You need to read more. >muh turn the other cheek!Oh no...it's retarded.
>>61585490>muh white rage>muh troons>muh medal creep>muh recruiting crisis
>>61585770This, OP Is an actual pretentious retard.>>61586050"Where some states have an army, the Prussian Army has a state"-Voltaire
>>61589833>Lmfao. The Greco-Roman gay thing is a meme. You need to read more.
>>61588040Actually interesting post, anon.
How do we know the letter was authentic?
>>61586050Which is annoying because Hesse-Kassel had a better quality and proportionally larger army. There's a reason they had to whore out their army to other countries just to fund it.
>>61586105>>61586656Prussia served Russian interests for the next several decades after Peter III saved it (helping partition Poland, fighting Napoleon, etc). It was a genius move.
>>61589940>Prussia served Russian interests by doing things that benefited them which they would have done anyway
>>61587971'Git thar tha fustest with tha mostest' is still a good quote
>>61589942Yes, because Prussia and Russia had compatible interests. As Peter III, you'd have to be a moron to let Prussia sink back into minor power status.
>>61589992Austria was as supportive of Russian interests in the same way that Prussia was, and with the collapse of Prussian power its inevitable that Austria would have turned its attention back towards France giving Russia free reign over Eastern Europe.
>>61590028Austria tried to prevent the first partition before participating in it, and they also had serious disagreements with the Russian vision for the Balkans and Near East. Prussia had no hope of taking a piece of the Ottoman Empire so they were fine with supporting Russian interests in the region.
>>61590043If Prussia collapsed as a power Austria could be coerced with the threat of a two front war with France and Russia as Franco-Austrian cooperation only functioned with a distracted Austria.
>>61590055Austria could already be coerced with the threat of a two-front war with Prussia and Russia, but they can't be made into a Russian strategic partner. If only France could help Russia distract Austria, and if that alliance can be made, the result is that Britain gets forced into helping Austria, since they have an interest in maximizing the number of great powers so as to maximize the ability of their small army to effect results on the Continent. In fact, Russia also has an interest in having more European great powers as their army is not that great.
Meine cockke enlargens
>>61589517>fucking a mareFuck I wanna try that before I die
>>61585490American constitutional values are not just a human right, but a human necessity.
>>61587971>Stand WatieWho? Also...>Johnston>A good strategistLol. C'mon, bro.
>>61589669Who the fuck do you think you're kidding with this spiel?
>>61589779It's all old Prussian propaganda.
>>61586105>t. seething FrogI believe that the defining national moment of Fr*nce is the Battle of Sedan and the Proclamation of the German Empire. Worthless, faggy Gauls. Toot de la S'more!
>>61587107Divine right is real in civilised countries
>>61589841Probably underrated, since he only gets hate from stupid people.
NGL his backstory of his father beating him for learning French, stopping him from marrying a British princess and living at her father's court due to it not being depressingly protestant and prussian enough then executing his gay lover in front of him reads like anime>Katte was beheaded at the fortress of Küstrin, where the king forced Frederick to watch the execution. However, when he was brought up to be executed, Frederick shouted in French to Katte, "Veuillez pardonner mon cher Katte, au nom de Dieu, pardonne-moi!" ("Please forgive me dear Katte, in God's name, forgive me.") Katte called back in the same language, "There is nothing to forgive, I die for you with joy in my heart!" Frederick then fell to the floor in a dead faint.Fritz.. had a hard life.
>>61589540also the crown prince getting killed by Zulus didn't help. iirc some french people thought his death was a british conspiracy against france when really he just walked into an ambush.
>>61590095>ince they have an interest in maximizing the number of great powers so as to maximize the ability of their small army to effect results on the ContinentRussia's army wasn't small nor was it bad and it outperformed France and Austria during the Seven Years War and at least matched its continental counterparts during the Napoleonic Wars.More generally however you don't give up short term benefit on the off chance that it will benefit you more longterm. A major allied victory in the war would have given Russia access to the western Baltic either directly through control of Prussia or port cities like Danzig or indirectly by cleaving Prussia from Brandenburg and making the former a Russian client state. That would give them far more ability to dominate Poland and potentially they won't even need a partition being able to force the Poles to elect a Russian king or simply coercing the regions they desire with only a distracted Austria to meaningfully resist them.
>>61585490Its extremely rare, basically only Ceasar, Hannibal and Cao Cao, among the great generals, also fought a great general, even one at the bottom of the great pile. Almost exclusively people like Napoleon, and Subotai fight drooling idiots and midwits. And this is just because that's what hereditary titles do to a society. Most generals who won a war, were perfectly mediocre at it until some kind of meritocracy was created, then the idiots got weeded out and 99% of people winning wars were perfectly mediocre, and 1% good to low tier great. Democracy and meritocracy are extreme levelers insuring that people who would be extremely effective leaders at the top can never make it through the bullshit at the bottom and middle. This creates stability.
>>61586247Some people ya thats true, but Frederick is like the number 1 homo in history. If you deny frederick was gay, or if you like not gay as a modern concept but a man who had sex with other men. Then you might as well deny Prussia existed. We have about the same amount of evidence for both.
>>61591935Hadrian is the #1 homo. Everyone else is just a pretender to the title.
>>61589833If you think greco-roman culture didnt have homosex and pederasty you are retarded.
>>61591002That frederick wasnt a very good commander and was carried by his army? Or that He was a genius and prussian soldiers were average? Because at the end of the day he fucking won, so something has to be true.
>>61591945Ok ya a few romans give Fritz a run for his money, but we definitely have the most reliable sourcing for Frederick.
>>61585490He won some good victories and made most of his enemies look incompetent. And he won an impossible war. Stay mad and keep minizing lmao
>>61586105Yes Karl Peter Ulrich of Schleswig-Holstein-Gottorp that damn German protestant sympathizer how could he
>>61590805Johnston was an excellent strategist. Both Grant and Sherman had high praises for him, and noted that he was the only Confederate commander who fought the war on a strategic level like they did. Lost Causers trash talk Johnston because he didn't believe in the retarded chivalric notion of war that "proper" Southern Gentlemen ascribed to. He also hated Jefferson Davis and loathed Lee for engaging in battles for no gains and stupidly throwing away the lives of his men.His biggest flaw was they had a tendency to overthinking problems and that made him slow to act, often losing the initiative to Union forces. But in terms of marshaling his limited resources and fighting battles worth fighting, he was a league above most Southern commanders.
>>61591965well with the "gay" romans are more complex due to them being bisexual at most and not being interested in romantic love between men (just bussy not love) but Hadrian was different not only is there no evidence of him loving/fucking a women not even his wife and he was mocked as a greekling because of his soppy uwu gecian love of Antinous (similar to the main characters in the Satryicon where Giton bosses Encolpius like he's his pious roman wife).
>>61591956By the time the Prussians fought Napoleon, Freddie was dead, and the Prussian military was kind of outdated in tactics and doctrine and no longer the best in the world, so it's hard to tell.
>>61588040Old stereotypes about gays, thinking of William Shirer (Guy was some kind of US envoy during the 30s in Germany, so old as shit) writing and Frank Herbert, was that gays were uniquely violent and sadistic. It's chicken and the egg as to whether treatment of homosexuals in the past led them house more cruel or belligerent types because they were already marginalized and mistreated, or if they were marginalized and mistreated because of that behavior. It's something I've started to consider in much wider applications - the idea that the victim is not some disney uwu poor innocent blameless white sheep utterly without sin. That's a modern contrivance, and it's entirely possible - I'd say guaranteed really - that past peoples who suffered pogroms and genocides of course did not deserve it but were not operating in a vacuum. Just like today in the popular conception the Tutsi were innocent and blameless and one day the Hutus started to kill em all, when among other precursors to why Hutus hated Tutsis in 1970s the Tutsi genocided Hutus in Burundi. And I'm not saying that as some anti-tutsi retard or something, I think Kagame's cool. Just using them as an example because the obvious one of Jews precipitating their dislike in host countries makes this seem like some /pol/ screed rather than "Real life intercommunal violence is more complicated than a disney movie where the victim is more sinless than Jesus and the victimizer more evil than Satan".>>61587971Think about today. The people who get big and famous are not the best, they just have the best PR and marketing.
>>61589517He also wrote in his private journal that he had absolutely no sexual interest in women. But still here we are a few hundred years after the fact and people still think it's some shit that Voltaire made up for the lulz.
>>61585490The really disgraceful thing about Frederick's homosexuality is that he was a bottom, unlike other military gays >>61585496. He despised women, but enjoyed the woman's role
>>61586398>But protestant propaganda ascribes every single tactical and technological breakthrough of the era solely to him and it is still believed to this day.No it’s not. If anything, people are now going too far in the opposite direction and saying he contributed nothing to the development of warfare and that Maurice of Nassau was the actual revolutionary genius. In truth, what he Gustavus Adolphus actually did was take the various military innovations from all over the continent and construct out of them a well-oiled war machine that was truly original, when taken as a whole, and did truly become the template for Western armies up until WWI.But I will say that Charles XII was superior as far as Swedish warrior kings go.>B-But muh Poltava!!1!Charles XII wasn’t present at Poltava. He was ill because of an infected foot injury.
>>61593855>But I will say that Charles XII was superior as far as Swedish warrior kings go.Charles is proof that the ultimate asset a Great Captain can have is good luck. He had 99s in every stat except Luck.
>>61593855>Charles XII Like Frederick, another assumed homosexual by modern sensibilities
Both overrated. Yes, they are even more retarded than people already think.
>>61585490What's up with Prussian military men being gay, especially for Frenchmen? At least the baron had good taste, always going for smart twinks
>>61593950That wasn’t even his fault. He wanted to get married but he was too busy being attacked by almost all of Northern and Eastern Europe for the entirety of his adult life.
>>61585490This fucker right here.His only redeeming factor was that he was better than most other soviet generals and boy, that is a low bar to clear.
>>61593950Modern sensibilities are coombrained. He seemed to be asexual if anything. His sister also said that he wanted to marry for love rather than politics. He was also a fanatical and extremely straight-laced Lutheran, so sodomy is something he would probably punish by death. He did after all have the death penalty for his soldiers if they ever raped a woman.
>>61595574Yup>Lend-Lease>Germany fighting a two-front war and Hitler becoming more retarded by the day - ordering his troops to not retreat a single inch, ensuring complete encirclements as the Soviets outnumber them ten to one.>Have infinite hordes of asiatic serfs to throw at exhausted Germans - sacrifice a thousand men to capture a couple of inches. Rinse and repeat until you're in Berlin.
>>61595683Also triple death penalty for bestiality.
>>61593629In general i feel sexual deviancy can often correlate with mental disorders or traumaThis might be more pronounced in the past (The less crazy gays were scared of doing something unnaceptable and repressed it)Also in the past sadomasochism was more of a gay thing; gay leather clubs were popular back when it was still fringe among straight people.
>>61595906jesus no fun allowed at all I guess
>>61589669ah so that is why 40% of pedos are...and the chants about the kids...
>>61595790give zhukov some credit for knowing damn well how important the lend lease was lol
Honestly how does being killed on the battlefield compare with pulling teeth?
>>61585490Who is the most overrated out of these blokes?
>>61597628Guderian, because he survived and was able to write the narrative that said "I had it right, Hitler did everything wrong." I'd actually be more interested to know who an underrated German commander was.
>>61586013Basically none of his portraits wound up being accurate to how he actually looked. There's one or two which are thought to be at least close. Frederick thought he was ugly and refused to have many images of himself made, so many of the extant monuments and statues are posthumous. >"There is so much talk about the fact that we terrestrial kings are made in the image of God. Then I look in the mirror and am obliged to say to myself: How unlucky for God!"
>>61591757>Frederick more or less completely rejects staunch Prussian austerity because his father was a raging retard>Breaks up the Potsdam giants, his father's pride and joy regiment, later finally using them in a battle and scattering the remnants to the winds among other units>Once king, establishes an estate which is dedicated entirely to french philosophy and being able to do what he likes>Women completely banned from the estate>Surrounds himself with prominent french writers and thinkers>Uses french whenever possible and only uses German for matters of state
>>61597628He's not on the list, but Manstein easily.>>61597700Manstein literally wrote a book after the war called Lost Victories and "I had it right, Hitler did everything wrong"-ed harder than any major German general after the war.
>>61589669>the Christians went on a crusade against drag shows recently and completely failedNo, normal people went on a crusade against them and it was extremely effective. Trannies went from sacred cows to assumed pedophiles within about a six month period.
>>61589669Lol. This is what fags actually believe.
>>61591922>Its extremely rare, basically only Ceasar, Hannibal and Cao Cao, among the great generals, also fought a great general, even one at the bottom of the great pileScipio Africanus is a great general who never lost a battle and capped off his career by defeating a Great Captain and subjugation of Rome's greatest enemy Carthage.
What I've never understood is why Pyrrhus was supposed to be one of the greatest ancient generals, with Hannibal famously putting him only behind Alexander. Maybe there wasn't much to choose from back then but his record is pretty unremarkable.
>>61600060Pyrrhus apparently wrote a very lengthy and intricate treatise on the art of war that was read by many generals of antiquity but has unfortunately been lost to time.
>>61589669Straight hands typed this postt. knower
>>61597923> Liddel Hart and Manstein in the same bookCould have posted it sooner and ended the thread then and there.
>>61597628Where's Manstein in this list?In any case, considering the options you offered, I'd say Rommel, because not only he was a complete garbage of a general that people praise to hell and back because o myths, but also the fact that even to this day many faggots insist that he was the epithome of a "good nazy" or whatever that means, when in truth he was just as racist and hateful as any other nazi, that infuriates me more than anything else.Lastly, why even put Himmler in there? I don't think I've ever seen anyone praising his leadership skills.Change Himmler with Manstein and I'll vote Manstein easily, otherwise I'll go for Rommel.>>61595574>>61596070This, soviet generals were all complete garbage.The Soviet Union only survived and "won" because of lend lease, World War 2 was purely an american and british victory, the soviets didn't win, they survived.Also, the vast majority of soviet soldiers fighting weren't even russian, most were Ukrainians, Belarussians and other minorities from the Soviet Empire.
>>616000601) He was an enemy of Rome, and one that defeated them multiple times. Not only do we have a bias towards figures that did that, but the Romans tended to lionize their foes in their own histories to make their eventual victories all the more glorious2) Of all the Greek adventurers in Italy, he was by far the most successful3) From what little information we do have about him, he does seem quite talented tactically. He seemed quite flexible in battle, and had a great understand of his army and when/how to use it. That might seem obvious but there's a lot more examples of people fucking that up in Ancient history then there is getting it right.4) He was apparently well regarded by contemporaries and later figures in Antiquity. Said figures had far more information about him (either knowing him personally, or having access to more complete histories than we do), and so their judgements are worth considering.
>>61597759It's weird that Frederick's father was austere in general but had the single most proportionally expensive and utterly useless military in recorded history (the Potsdam Giants). At least for meme shit like all female bodyguards it's easier to find and recruit women than 7+ foot tall giants and even if they're shit soldiers at least their bodies don't fall apart by the age of 30.
>>61599996Scipio's brother also earned the title Asiaticus for defeating Antiochus the Great of the Seleucid Empire. Hard to find many situations where multiple people in a family are military geniuses.
>>61585490>be pretty decent small unit commander>commit to retarded maneuvers in France but somehow avert disaster because of how incompetent the French were>still sent to North Africa>Completely ignore logistics and commit to autistic offensives for short-lived tactical gains>Refuse to change your tactics and strategy>Get Btfoed>decades down the line be remembered as a military miracle worker because of a movie and a couple of accounts
>>61600203>>61600060People nowadays associate pyrrhic victories with skewed loss ratiosIn reality Romans had twice the casualties as the Greeks in AsculumBut Romans were in their home turf and had the ability to keep zerg rushing; while the Greeks could not get reinforcements as easily
>>61591790IIRC That was the Bonapartist heir however, not the Legitimist or Orleanist one.
>>61600349Adding to that>Also remembered by a cult of idiots as a good or clean nazi, as if such a thing ever existedThis is what infuriates me the most about him.If you wanna talk about "good" or "clean" nazis, you should be talking about Canaris, and even Canaris is a bit of a stretch as he wasn't that good or clean and people often overblow his good deeds out of proportion.
>>61600540Pretty sure that whole idea came from him being executed for having lose associations with the 20th of July plot. That being said non of the conspirators were le hecking chungus demogracy wholesome 500 liberals, they tried to off Hitler because of perceived poor management on his part, not because of some significant ideological disagreements
>>61600349Not saying that Rommel isn't overrated as hell, but the whole "Rommel didn't understand logistics!" narrative is kind of a meme. The North African campaign was doomed from the start.
George Washington>lose a majority of standing battles as both British and American general>adopt a winning guerilla strategy more by circumstances rather than planning>have ONE tactically sound attack abusing knowledge of enemy traditions during Christmas>basically just wait until the French declare a 7 years war part 2 so they can do most of the work
>>61600655Considering that he routinely outran his supply train and often failed to establish proper communications and logistical bases it's makes one wonder whether he cared much for logistics or not
>>61600421it could be said to be skewed even in that sense going by ratios of the armies themselves. That the percentile rate of losses was high enough. if you loose 50 percent of your forces while the enemy only lost 10 percent despite inflicting far more casualties on them.
>>61600060Imagine Belgium deciding to make a play to dominate Europe. It invades Germany, then France, then England, then Germany again.It never scores more than temporary victories, never manages to hold on to conquered territory, but it is never itself invaded, and it keeps winning in pitched battles against all of its opponents, only retreating in the face of superior numbers but never caught, never destroyed.That's basically what Pyrrhus did. His acumen on the battlefield aside, he was also no slouch in terms of logistics, considering his operations across the adriatic.He never had the resource base to succeed, and fails at the 'American' model of war, bringing an overwhelming advantage in numbers and economic capacity to bear.But as a heroic character classical antiquity, accomplishing deed after deed with what little he was given, he is without peer.He was basically a Hollywood action hero. The kind of character the audience loves, yet couldn't succeed in reality. Not that it stopped him from trying and making a hell of a show out of it.
>>61600687Everyone routinely outruns their supplies on the offensive, even the truck-glutted Allies. German logistics just tended to be more shit in general with their appalling rate of mechanization, exarcebated by Rommel's fixation on aggressive maneuver over destruction. (Which fucked him over as much as logistics did in the end)
>>61600786That's a good explanation, thank you based effortposter
>>61595790>>61600136Basically all researchers of WW2 say that the Soviets could have won without Lend Lease, it'd have pushed them to the brink of collapse, but they'd have won. The Germans were already spent by the time the bulk of Lend Lease arrived. The Lend-Lease shilling is pure post-War propaganda by the US.
>>61597628Manstein.
>>61600136Haters gonna hate. Rommel was a great general because he was ambitious, deeply integrated with his troops, and willing to do unconventional warfare to accomplish results. His troops loved him and gave better results. If you take a look at his WWI record it becomes even.clearer. He was a bad general because he gave no shits about supply lines and while his bold moves helped make great gains, these gains cost him the actual campaign as he was unable to hold them. He also failed in choosing better defense points and evaluating non Army tactics for hard targets (even tho the Luftwaffe was shite and occupied a small contigent of bombers could have removed Tobruk which was one of Rommel's most consistent and costly problems in his Africa campaign). Had Rommel served in the US military he likely wouldn't have made full general but would have been an excellent Armored commander and likely would have even pioneered Cold War tactics to 80s maturity with the better US tech and command structure. Rommel is a good man on the field, but a bad campaign commander. Just something I always feel the need to point out with him. Also give him props for never going soft on his guys. He had a whole mobile command unit that frequently fought in Africa. Classic soldier who should always be on the ground not in a field office.
>>61600611Fascism was hugely popular in Germany. Most of the anti-Nazis in the German military or government were just supporters of another type of fascist leadership. Hitler was too kooky or untrustworthy for them, not 'evil'.
>>61585707War is an adolescent obsession for closeted homos, see various hazing rituals throughout military cultures.
>>61593629>the idea that the victim is not some disney uwu poor innocent blameless white sheep utterly without sinThey often are, but take note that they can be. If a nigger suddenly starts shooting in the street and you get hit then well, you are entirely blameless for the situation.In this case it should be considered 'without sin' as those wouldn't be relevant to the situation. It does not matter if you were a good or bad person, you just did not have anything with the situation.Likewise, the reason they guy might have started shooting was because you killed his mother or something.In other words, we cannot really said who is to blame just purely from 'aggressor'/'victim' labels. Which does matches with what you were saying. You always need to analyze the context and see what is really happening.
>>61597628Rommel, without contest.
>>61602701Yes all soviet shills tend to say that.Meanwhile actual Soviet High command, Zhukov himself, says the exact fucking opposite.Cope and seethe, zigger
>>61602701post-WW2 analysis by Soviets is obviously going to be against Lend-Lease being effective because the new enemy is America.Both Stalin and Khrushchev stated that without Lend-Lease, the Soviets would have lost. This was stated by them both during and after the war. Even Zhukov who was a pivotal figure during WW2 and was Marshall of the USSR in the 60s stated this "People say that the allies didn't help us. But it cannot be denied that the Americans sent us materiel without which we could not have formed our reserves or continued the war. The Americans provided vital explosives and gunpowder. And how much steel! Could we really have set up the production of our tanks without American steel? And now they are saying that we had plenty of everything on our own."It's just more retarded WW2 revisionism
>>61595916That's fucking retarded because you're assuming there's a "normal" sexuality, which you might think is missionary for the purposes of procreation - only that's based on christian/jewish religion instead of any biologyfurthermore the reason gay clubs were more open with fetishes is because being gay was a repressed thing to begin with and putting the line one inch further than the societal norm when it's all equally illegal or unacceptable to the outsider is stupid
>>61588476>>61588645Forrest was kicked out of the Confederate Cavalry Association for accepting a bouquet of flowers from a black woman.
>>61603269Going by biology, sex for procreation is most definitely the norm, dude. Doesn't matter if the roles of and dynamics between either male or female changes across species, or that some can change sex or self-fertilize under certain (subpar) conditions. Male fertilization of female gametes is always gonna be the most evolutionarily optimal way to pass on genes.IMO, there are enough studies linking fetish formation with childhood trauma to reasonably associate sexual deviancy with mental disorders. That being said, gay activists in the past were definitely more into integrating into society - "look at how normal and upstanding gay people can be, we're pretty much just like you!"It wasn't until recently when they took a different (Gramscian) tact and started pushing for degenerate shit to be the new cultural norm/hegemony instead.
>>61591665>Probably underrated, since he only gets hate from stupid people.
>>61603520Yes, near the end of his life after having fought to oppress black people his entire life and after successfully reestablishing the pre-war social order in the South.Maybe he had a change of heart, it's not unheard of, especially when you're old and close to death. Whether you buy it or not is a whole different story.
>>61603549Anon you realize the regulations on displaying your decorations has changed right. Eisenhower had so many decorations they wouldn't have even fit on a ribbon bar like Milley's.
>>61603549Case-in-point, the pic you posted. It really is just stupid people, and neverserveds.
>>61603854>>61604058Honestly, the fact that Milley survived 2 diametrically-opposing presidential administrations is quite impressive unto itself.
>>61597628If this post was made 10-20 years ago I would have said Rommel. However, I think the backlash against the guy's reputation has gotten to the point that most people now tend to downplay his abilities rather than overstate them. Guderian or Manstein is my answer these days. Of the rest (except Himmler because he didn't do much on the tactical or strategic level of thinking outside of SS recruitment), I'd say Model was the best, but Kesserling was the most underrated, and Keitel was the shittiest.
>>61604101The guy has to be a pretty competent political mover to manage it desu
>>61585490prussians and germans in general are completely overrated, yes. it's something you learn when you read history books rather than watch the history channel.
>>61604101There's evidence to suggest that Pres Trump simply picked him because he was a big, Army-looking guy. He wasn't Mattis's first suggestion.
>>61593534WTF does that have to do with anything. We had the printing press by Freddie, shit was all written down, same as with Napolean.
>>61599996Kek I wasnt even referring to Scipio as the great general Hannibal fought. I dont consider scipio great. I am talking about the Cunctator, my boy, and Dictator, Quintus Fabius Maximus Verrucosus. Scipio can enjoy being mid with Wellesley.
>>61603114And churchill says the battle of britain was on a razors edge. But we know from all the data now that the germans were never ever close to winning and the whole thing was one sided. Humans are fallible. The considered, data driven work of historians, considering all sides first hand accounts, and data is going to be more complete than someone trying to tell impressive stories at a cocktail party in the 50s.
>>61604949anything data driven that doesn't take into account soft factors is pure mid-wit delusion about "muh data, muh tanks losses" Specifically about the battle of britain you'd have to be an abject retard to think a slight advantage in airframe production doesn't mean that the battle of britain was extremely closely contested and that in fact the germans started to gain the advantage before the switch to the blitz.
>>61604949>and this is why you NEED to REALLY believe soviet stronk!lol
>>61605032never mind the bullshit that went on with tank losses on all sides
>>61605032I see you are illiterate and ignored all of my talk about considering all sides first hand accounts. Also data like pilot recovery. Data around the incorrect forces assumptions made by both sides, with the UK officially believing the luftwaffe was more powerful and germany officially believing the RAF was weaker. Really really must be considered. But again you are just advocating for taking Churchills word on the matter alone because he was in charge. Instead of taking the interviews and journals and such from all the available sources and using that to create a conclusion. So ya I guess you really are fucking retarded. >>61605086No i just believe germany was weak.
Was Sobieski and his meme hussars any good?
>>61605114>hey let me just slide in here and try to say zhukovs opinion on the importance of the lendlease meant nothing, thus supporting the idea of soviet stronk>OH NO! I WAS NOTICED>"Ahem- I was actually just referring to Germany being weak"
>>61597628Guderian easily
>>61603520Forrest did raid a union fort and apparently ordered the massacre of its Negro union defenders after they surrendered as intimidation for remaining slaves
>>61604101JCS Chairman isn’t really a political appointment. So long as he wasn’t calling the President a fag to his face, he would generally be safe from purges. Moreover his term of office is capped at four years so there would have been no point to firing him.
>>61605115He was an excellent commander (Vienna was basically his third best battle), but he was also a micromanager and risk taker. Not so much in actual battle, but in terms of personal risk while on campaign. Even as king he would routinely join scouting missions in person, personally interrogated prisoners, etc.It worked out really well for him at times, since he would have excellent understanding of the situation and terrain, and a few times his enemies ended up shitting themselves to his advantage when he was sighted, since they assumed he was there in force when his actual army was days away and he was just fucking around deep in enemy territory with a few dozen scouts at his side. But a few other times he got into dumb ambushes by doing that and was very lucky to escape with his life.Also, Sobieski wasn't that big on hussars. He did use them since they had them, but his thing were dragoons and light cavalry - cheap and effective.
>>61605145do you think greentext makes you sound less dumb? Somehow someone not agreeing with your exact dogma always means they are arguing directly against you? Maybe thats less likely than you think. Especially seeing as I never made any statements on the importance of lend lease or the strength of the soviet nation. Or said zhukovs opinions meant nothing. But just keep creating strawmen to argue against then say its me.
>>61604930Bro, Scipio is the guy who made the cohort system and was the first to equip his men with the Gladius. Even disregarding his skills in tactics and strategy, he's a brilliant organizer and innovator too. The only Roman general on par with Marius in this regard, honestly. He's also a great diplomat. He realized the Numidian cavalry were Hannibal's secret sauce, so Scipio cucked him by using diplomacy and espionage to turn them to Rome's side. Now destroying them in the field would have been more glorious and added stars to his military resume, but smart generals know that don't always need to fight battles to win a war.
>>61586247>Ultimately we have nothing to base those claims on.>However, in July 1750, the Prussian king unmistakably wrote to his gay secretary and reader, Claude Étienne Darget: “Mes hémorroïdes saluent affectueusement votre v[erge]” (“My hemorrhoids affectionately greet your cock”),Yeah
>>61604058Lick that boot harder lil cucky
>>61605340Scipio was better than Hannibal imo. Hannibal had tactical prowess but he failed to capitalize on his tactical successes basically at every turn. He held Rome by the balls for 20 years but could never land a decisive end to the war. He never managed to effectively cope with Fabian tactics. He trusted family to get stuff done. Politics and diplomacy and strategy were as important as tactics to a general at that time, but Hannibal never really pulled them off. He fought countless decisive battles for his city and all it got him in the end was exile and a razed homeland
>>61605340wtf scipio did not introduce the gladius, and did not create the cohort system, post any fucking proof. And advocating for something already in use like the gladius is not particularly impressive. The difference between a Xiphos and a gladius is not why rome defeated anyone. Also sorry being a good ruler is not the discussion. By the standard of Rome getting the Numidians to change sides that makes Augustus a better general than Caesar. And would easily make Ghengis Khan Goat.
>>61591947If you think it was as pervasive as globohomo wants you to believe you're probably in the closet
>>61591665>browncel detected Give me more of that brown raaaaage.
>>61605404You could say the same of Caesar won loads of battles then got killed. Carthage in the second Punic war had no chance vs Rome. And the casualties' inflicted by Hannibal in the early stages of the way would have won him ever conflict up until WW1. The Romans being the Goat warfighting nation doesn't make Hannibal worse. >>61605409show me in my quote where I said how pervasive it was.
>>61605420Do you not know what "failed to capitalize" means? Fighting a war is more about strategy than tactics, and Hannibal definitely failed at strategy
>>61605426Explain how he failed?
>>61605432...by failing to pull it off? His plan to destroy Rome hinged on getting the other tribes of Italia on his side, which never happened
>>61605441WoW he failed by failing. You really understand what happened.... EXPLAIN HOW Dont tell me the ending we all know that. Explain the mistakes he made. And you cant say starting the war. We all know Rome was going to whittle carthages power down until they could crush them without effort. Hannibals family had planned for that and gathered strength in spain and the war was launched when it seemed most likely to succeed.
>>61587971Ive never heard of forrest being held more highly than Sheridan or Stewart.
>>61603649Based, nuck figgers. Should've gone back to Apefrica.
>>61605404Hannibal's strategy was sound. He correctly identified Rome's competitive advantage, their successful integration of conquered states into a robust alliance network that gave them originalxboxhueg pools of manpower, and pursued a strategy designed to eliminate that source of strength. He also had the tactical acumen to back it up. However he ran into the same problem Pyrrhus did in that he was unable to convince many of those states to truly commit to a war with Rome. So while he could wedge some of them away from the alliance, he could never truly turn them into an effective counter-alliance. But that failure is rooted in his personal politics and diplomacy, his actual military tactics and strategy are still sound. So you're right in that aspect. Honestly, I don't think Rome could be defeated in a purely military competition at that point in history. You would need a particularly charismatic who also excels at diplomacy, because so much of the struggle is political. Given the resources, figures like Lysander, Alcibiades, or Alexander the Great could do it. But your typical militaristic autistic savant stands no chance.
>>61587971Say whatever you want about him as a general; I don't care. He was a fierce fighter, which is where the respect comes from. It's the same as with Custer, really.
Why no one mentioned ClausewitzHe never won a battle
>>61605693Because he's remembered for his books, not his battles
>>61605269>being this desperate to cover it upthen why reply to ME hmm?get better at gaslighting.
>>61600683Washington cannot be left alone to his devices.Indecisive, from crisis to crisis.The best thing he can do for the revolutionIs turn n' go back to plantin' tobacco in Mount Vernon!
This Motherfucker never did shit and took credit for all the success of his subordinates. No leader in WW2 was more hated by the men he commanded. He unnecessarily prolonged the War in the Pacific and cost lives.
>>61606503Didn't he also fuck a lot of his subordinates wives?
>>61604930Nigga have you even read up on Scipio's career?
>>61600683Washington was the right General for the job, not that he was a tactical or strategic genius, but he was politically sound. Imo thats every bit as important, case in point was Benedict Arnold was a superior commander, but politically he was lacking.
>>61605234Star Trek captain syndrome
>>61607367Benedict, for all you can say got a raw deal and chimped out. As an Amerilard myself, I def can't forgive him 100% but he did get shafted. Lastly, even tho no one lies online esp, on a Bolivian tax accountant social club website. I'm related to him. So probably little more forgiving.
>>61589140>His dynasty was deposed for good barely a generation laterWich had little to do with Charles 1 as the civil war mess was pretty much cleaned up by his son Charles "Chad" 2 ... only for his autistic little brother to immediatly fuck everything up again.Honestly now that i think about it, maybe it did have something to do with charles 1 as he seemed to have passed the 'tism onto his youngest son.
>>61608209>maybe it did have something to do with charles 1 as he seemed to have passed the 'tism onto his youngest son.its a family tradition since Charles I's autism was 100% related to him being the 2nd son compared with his fawned after older brother Prince Henry Fredrick Stuart>Henry is said to have disliked his younger brother, Charles, and to have teased him, although this derives from only one anecdote: when Charles was nine years of age [and Henry was 15], Henry snatched the hat off a bishop and put it on the younger child's head, then told his younger brother that when he became king he would make Charles Archbishop of Canterbury, and then Charles would have a long robe to hide his ugly rickety legs. Charles stamped on the cap and had to be dragged off in tears.[65] Savage. I can see how getting constantly bullied by your Scottish ultra-protestant twink of an older brother might have caused all his autisms like being a catholic mommy's boy.
>>61600683If anything, Washington is underrated. He effectively outmaneuvered militarily and politically the officers of one of the greatest militaries on Earth, keeping the Continental Army in the game long enough to get France and Spain involved and swing the war in the Patriots' favor. Robert E. Lee might have a bunch of fancy victories to his name, but his great battlefield triumphs failed to accomplish what Washington did through just running away and not getting his army destroyed.
>>61609112The Americans won the war on land. Washington was the commander of the American forces. Shittalking him is indescribable cope. I'm sure there's also some cope out there for how the French navy was able to score victories on the high seas, too.
>>61587971Confederate generals weren't that great for the most part, Union generals were just utter dog shit.
>>61585707Good question. It`s really a large number. Alexander the Great, Epaminondas, Agesilaus II, Sulla, Trajan , Hadrian, Liu Bang, Babur, Richard Lionheart, Oda Nabunaga, Takeda Shingen, Mehmed the Conqueror, Tokugawa Iemitsu. I suspect their hypermasculinity wants to control everthing. So this reflects their sexuality. Exercising their masculinity, their dominance, fucking other men's asses.
>>61609112>He effectively outmaneuvered militarily and politically the officers of one of the greatest militaries on Earth>he didn't read a god damn bit of historyHe fumbled his way through the campaign being blessed with leadership in his army and then stole land from his soldiers after the war.
>>61605420Caesar was so successful that even being assassinated didn't stop him from winning.And yes, Hannibal completely failing to understand who his enemy was and what they were capable of does make him a worse general. Especially since he already should have known better by simply looking at what happened in the First Punic War.
>>61606503>He unnecessarily prolonged the War in the Pacific and cost lives.He's not MacArthur. He's the only reason why we had two competing ideas to take on Japan. King was the better of the two plans. King planned the island hopping campaign to build air bases to bomb Japan, while MacArthur's only goal was to retake the Philippines which btw he lost because of his incompetence.>army creates plan to hold the Philippines in case of attack>basically just retreat to Bataan and wait to reinforcements>MacArthur in his infinite wisdom thinks that's dumb>let's defend them at the beaches!>spreads all the supplies from Bataan around the country>gets attacked and has to retreat to Bataan>wherethefuckissoursupplies.jpgThey could have held out for a year or more on Bataan if they actually had food and ammo.Let's also remember that MacArthur not only got the Medal of Honor for abandoning his post, but wrote his own citation for it.At least MacArthur isn't as bad as Stillwell. You know the guy in charge of the China-Burma theater and completely ignoring the fact that China was the main part of his theater. Demanding Chiang Kai-shek to send him troops to retake Burma, while on the receiving end of major offensive in China. He was a theater commander in name, but in practice more like a battalion commander.
>>61610164Washington was a radical centrist.
Was it Washington who came up with the brilliant strategy to rendezvous with Rochambeau and siege Yorktown?
>>61585490Firtz was never acknowledged as a commander. as such he was utter shitbag.
>>61610512>At least MacArthur isn't as bad as Stillwell. You know the guy in charge of the China-Burma theaterWho in the world thinks Stillwell is a good general?
>>61610164No one asked you tripnigger, get back in /arg/ where you belong.
>>61605420Show me the quote where I said there were absolutely 0 gays in Rome or Greece.
>>61612590Me because he has a cool name
>>61589669Homosexual paedophile rapist (redundant statement)
>>61603269There is, in-fact, a "normal" sexuality. You know what's patently abnormal and biologically suicidal, is being predisposed to disgust at the thought of procreational sex, which necessitates the involvement of the opposite sex.No, it isn't based on "Christianity" or "Jewish religion". >>61603539You're not getting it, bigot. Homo and transsexual over-representation in child sexual abuse is actually a perfectly normal sexual taste you bigoted, Judeo-Christian chud!>in the pastI'm inclined to agree, however what you see today is simply an inevitability. Those activists evidently weren't an accurate representation of their target demographic. Not all, but certainly a non-trivial proportion of such people are the product of formative abuse, as you pointed out. With something like that polluting your demographic, in addition to the psychosocial 'rebelliousness' component, was there really any other possible outcome? I personally find it hard to believe. Kevin Spacey, with his exact same upbringing, would be predisposed to behaving in an identical manner regardless of which societal environment he happened to grow up in. The only question is, to what extent he'd have the opportunity to do so.
>>61603539>Sex is not only about reproduction. It`s also about pleasure. Fuck other males was a way for the men to express their masculinity.
>>61614555Who let the /pol/tard in here? Now make like a jagoff and get flushed.
>>61585707All-male environments (armies, ships, prisons, monasteries) naturally lead to homosexuality.
>>61609466Yeah that’s why they won the decisive battles and the war
What is /k/'s verdict on Prince Eugene of Savoy?
>>61600683His strategy worked and he won. How is he overrated?
>>61602701>Basically all researchers of WW2[citation needed]
>>61614763His cruiser was way overrated
>>61593953Conrad and A-H in general are the biggest jobbers of WWI, they did so bad Austria shouldn't have existed after WWI. Conrad shit the bed so badly and so early I don't know how he didn't get axed right away. Right off the bat he fucked up with wishy-washy deployment of his forces that locked up his rail infrastructure for a good week or two, delaying his main forces deployment in Galicia, and then when he gets his army there he bumbles around blindly until contact with the Russians. Then he almost immediately presumes the Russian center falling back as a rout and splits his forces to lean on his faltering right flank, leaving a gap for the now-resupplied Russian center to push forward and almost envelop his entire front. The ensuing retreat cost the Austrians half a million casualties, half their entire army at the time, and more than 1000 of their 2000~ artillery pieces (of which throughout the next 5 years they could only produce 250 to recover). They were essentially out of the game September of 1914. 19 fucking FOURTEEN. Not even a whole summer season of the war and Conrad fucked Austria's military potential completely.Then he gradually gets butthurt about having to be militarily subordinate to Germany. What a fucking jobber.
>>61589669
>>61615313Says a lot about how shite Italy wasA-H are top shelf jobbers, but can hold a front against Russia and the Entente in the Balkans. Meanwhile the entire national war effort of Italy is unable to solo A-H on a third front lmao
>>61605358I'm not going to lie, I did not expect people in 1750 to use the word cock in this context
>>61614555Men in ancient times needed to go through their masculine journey, which included procreating.Homosexual love was a matter of feel pleasure. But nowadays, it is no longer possible to live like men in ancient times.Men could have female or male lovers in ancient times, because they were the highest instance in their marriage.However, nowadays, women have more power. Anyway, do you consider the enormous number of heterosexual couples that don't want to procreate as composed of people with mental disorders?
>>61597939Historically about 10% of anti-LGBT legislation is passed by state legislatures. Recently it's only been 4%.Despite appearances, the right is losing the culture war badly and fast.
>>61603539>Going by biology, sex for procreation is most definitely the norm, dude.This is a retarded misunderstanding of what "normal" means.The prevalence of schizophrenia in the population is 1 in 300 people. In any group of 300 people it's perfectly normal for 1 of them to have schizophrenia. In a group of 900 people, it's perfectly normal for 3 of them to have schizophrenia. It's perfectly normal for society to contain people who are missing arms and legs. It's perfectly normal for some babies to be born blind, or deaf, of with their hearts on the outside of their bodies.There is no such thing as "normal" function that you can define without reference to what you think people "should" be like. Things just fucking happen. You don't have to have an opinion on them. The opinions that you CHOOSE to have say more about you than they do about other people.
>>61614773He wasn't the greatest tactician or strategist, but he was an amazing leader. Perhaps most importantly, he was someone everyone was willing to listen to, respect, and follow. Had he not been commander-in-chief, he would have been a terrific staff officer, but likely would not have been leading armies in the field. Someone like Nathaniel Greene used a very similar style of warfare against the British to much greater battlefield effect.
>>61615855>the BalkansHey, don't short sell Bulgaria. They punched above their weight.
>>61614754A toddler could have won that war with the yankee advantages.
>>61600540Did you stumble on here from leddit, tranny? There are plenty of good nazis. In fact, most nazis were good. I can see your hooknose from here.
>>61604058>braindead grunt calling anyone stupidKEK. You are cattle lil bro. Hope you enjoyed taking 200 different mind control vaccines.
>>61616157It's only like 3 generations agoRead moar
>>61617605Again, we're not talking about the LGBT+. Just the T+.
>>61617629Miss me with your sophistry, you midwit.We're talking about strictly biology here.Normal, baseline, call it whatever you want, but the fact of the matter is, from a biological point of view, behavioral and physical adaptations are what they are in any instance for a fucking reason, and even humans are still largely subject to this.The outliers, mutations and freak occurences aren't the rule, they are exceptions.By your reasoning, there'd be no fucking point to anything, since it's apparently all random.
>>61618669"Normal, baseline, call it whatever you want, but the fact of the matter is, from a biological point of view, behavioral and physical adaptations are what they are in any instance for a fucking reason, and even humans are still largely subject to this. "So, from your argument, people can`t drink alcohol or eat desserts because, strictly speaking it`s not natural to consume alcohol or refined sugar. Anyway, people drink an eat desserts, because theu are delicious. Your argument falls in a boring and life denying christian puritanical vibe.
>>61585490>Why is this guy put in the same class as Alexander the Great, Caesar, and NapoleonGerman propaganda. That artificial and young nation needed national myths and since it was Prussia that united the country they shilled their only worthwhile king(ie he made prussia relevant despite everything said here). Then this get amplified more as ultra-nationalists take over Germany and pretend they are the master race and the Nazi are masters at propaganda too. This get even worst as Germany is losing the war and the closest thing they can get to boost moral is shilling Frederik 2 even harder by drawing comparisons and saying he won in desperate times and thus deluding themselves that the 3rd Reich could still win the war.Countries like France, Spain or England have thousands of years worth of history to get their legends and heroes from. Best germany can do is steal from the multicultural HRE which became mostly germans as anyone else fucked off. This need to be said since they keep trying to have Charlemagne be this germanic guy of theirs but that Frankish emperor literally idolized the Romans so much that he went out of way to turn most of the germanic Franks into latin French.
>>61618779Humans being fond of sugar and alcohol are specifically artifacts of the frugivorous tendencies of our ancestors, you ignorant retard. If anything, it's a perfect example of some characteristic that modern humans need to get over from and something you could've used against me, but of course you couldn't think of it. Stop embarrassing yourself and read a book.
>>61586754>Geopolitical Talking about overrated fags and geopolitical, Bismark come to mind. While he succeeded in uniting Germany, the way he did so wasn't viable in the long term. It made France ally Britain of all thing and the term "revanchism" came from it. Germany almost got away with it if not for ww1 which was influence by their fear of Russia becoming too strong via industrialization which came from French money and effort to have a strong ally to open a 2nd front vs the germans.
>>61618809It looks like you want humans to be biological robots.
>>61618779holy reddit batman, you have to go backwithout diddling a child on the way, if you can manage that
>>61618924Quite the opposite, and it's quite clear from the post you're replying to. Did you know liberty used to mean "mastery over one's base impulses"? Considering your reading comprehension, I'd wager not.
>>61618937What do children have to do with the discussion?
>>61618957Self-control doesn`t mean It needs to banish a behavior all together. Some Ancient Greeks loved buggery, but the ones which like it, needed to fulfil their duty to impregnate their women.
>>61617245Yes, couples that choose to not have children are every bit of a biological dead end as couples with fertility issues or fags.
>>61619038I was just refuting the attack on the concept of what's "normal" from a biological standpoint.Dumbass was always gonna lose on that front, when he could've secured concessions from me from a cultural or sociological standpoint on what people "can or cannot" do.Personally, whatever people do in their own time is their own problem; they're entitled to their distinct behaviors, their decisions and the consequences. Hate the sin, not the sinner, etc.
>>61614664Depends largely on enviroment, time period and culture. The 30 years war there was always an obligatory camp follower army behind the army proper, filled to the brim with peddlers, craftsman and whores.
>>61615313Conrad is what would happen if you put a HOI4 player in charge of an army in real life>just use strategic redeployment bro
>>61585490his country was attacked on all sides and he managed to save it, militarily his biggest blunder was to attack saxonyhe also isn't called the Great because of his wars but because of his policies>gaynever proven
>>61586398>crushed polandyeah I thin he was pretty great
>>61618669>but the fact of the matter is, from a biological point of view, behavioral and physical adaptations are what they are in any instance for a fucking reasonNo, they aren't.Life persists because if it didn't it wouldn't, but there's no plan. If you have kids you have kids and if you don't you don't. Neither outcome is better than the other, neither was the goal, neither was the point, and neither has a purpose. Shit just happens.The entire problem with your logic is that you think that because things happened therefore there's a reason for them happening. There's an EXPLANATION, but there's not a reason. There's no intentionality.You will call this sophistry but it isn't. It's a direct refutation of the central premise of your argument. For homosexuality to be an exception to a rule there would have to BE a rule and there isn't. Some people do X, some people do Y, that's just the way that the world is.>"so, what, murder is okay????"The reason why we have to have police and jail to punish murderers is because nobody else is going to do it for us. That's the point. We invent the rules. If you want to invent a rule that says people are supposed to have kids and we should spank people who don't, or whatever, or that heterosexuality is "normal" or whatever, then okay, but you're gonna have to convince me and I don't think that you can because why the fuck should I care?Your "BUT IT'S NORMAL" or "BUT IT'S NOT NORMAL" is an attempt to evade the part where you convince me why it matters.Thus, your central argument is refuted.
>>61618669>>61619800Addendum: the fact that you're attempting to argue about strictly biology and then telling me that everything happens for a reason reveals the absurdity of your argument better than an essay of analysis ever could.Speaking strictly in terms of biology, things don't happen for a reason. They just happen.Fucking midwit.
>>61617605Lol. I love this troon cope so much. Normal people are disgusted by troons in a growing percentage. The support for gays also has been on a decline since like 2015. Seethe
>>61619800>Neither outcome is better than the otherFalse. Thus your argument is refuted. :)
>>61619855>we're talking strictly about biology... but have you considered my feelings?
>>61585490Chesty is extremely overrated. Get his ass kicked the first time he was in a fight without outnumbering the enemy 3:1 and having the only armor on the field and a massive advantage in tube artillery.
>>61619850Uh huh.
>>61619883derp
>>61619800>survival of your bloodline isn't better then it being deadthe absolute mental gymnastics behind fagsnow tell me who has the biggest AIDS and pedophile rates
>>61619968Uhm, ahem, excuse me, but>"We're talking about strictly biology here." (>>61618669)
>>61585770Napoleon didnt have our hindsight
>>61619800Oh man, homeboy over here doesn't even realize this very conversation belies his "logic".You're presupposing reason and meaning at this very moment without even realizing it you fuckwit.
>>61620154No shit you fucking retard, that's the entire point of my post.
>>61620169Then you should know your reasoning necessarily means that Science, Mathematics and Philosophy are just a huge waste of everyone's time, you fucking faggot. That everyone's existence, including yours, is pointless.
>>61620405>Then you should know your reasoning necessarily means that Science, Mathematics and Philosophy are just a huge waste of everyone's time, you fucking faggot.Yes, that's my fucking point, for the reasons that I, and now YOU, have explained.
>>61620456Imagine peddling absolute nihilism as a refutation to anything. A self-refuting existence, doomed to not even trust his own senses, to eventual (physical) suicide.I've been arguing with you all this time, but now I'll stop. I wish you the best, but don't drag the rest of us down with you.
>>61619879The US has never had a "great" USMC general. Only decent to pretty good ones. Marines think they're the baddest the US military has to offer though, so get guys like Chesty and Matthis who get inflated praise for just being above average.
>>61620624Holy fuck are you actually this retarded?Anon tried to base his arguments about gays in "strict biology" but immediately began presupposing meaning. The thing you say about my argument - that it's self-refuting - was the exact point I was making about his argument attempting to derive meaning from strict biology: that the meaning he finds there is only meaning he has presupposed.I was so fucking confused why you kept replying to me just to repeat back to me what I was saying but I get it now. You're an utter drooling fucking moron.I even EXPLICITLY refuted the nihilism you're attempting to ascribe to me in my preemptive rebuttal of the "murder is okay lmao?" point that everyone always brings up - that, indeed, YOU are bringing up right now.God you're dumb. lmao
>>61620671NTA but why wouldnt you presuppose that the only biologically viable strategy would be ones that pass on genes?
>>61620731That's not the problem. The presupposition being made is that biological viability has value.Specifically, to connect the dots, the conclusion we're being asked to draw is that because an individual gay person may not reproduce, therefore that specific individual person should not be allowed to be gay. This is insane logic, so everyone will deny that it's the logic being applied here, but if it's NOT the logic being applied here then why are we having a conversation about biological viability at all?It's perfectly normal in any species for some members not to reproduce. Maybe it's because they're gay, maybe it's because they got their cock blown off by an IED in Afghanistan. The entire argument from normality is a red herring. But it "feels" right, doesn't it? It "feels" like people should have kids. It "feels" normal. And it is - and that's the trick being played, and people get very, very angry when you call them out on it.There are two things happening here. Firstly, people struggle to understand the idea that abnormality can be normal. But as the schizophrenia example shows, it's true: in any population of 300 people, it's normal to have 1 schizo. People with small brains cannot accept this. So when you tell them that in any population of 100 people it's normal for 2 or 3 of them to be homosexual the same failing applies.Secondly, there's a vague discomfort with the idea that illness and sickness are normal parts of life. If you dislike homosexuality and think it's an illness, or if it just makes you feel uncomfortable, there's a tendency to try and pretend that it doesn't exist. But if homosexuality is a normal, inevitable part of humanity - 2 or 3 in 100 - you can't pretend. So therefore homosexuality must not be normal! How can you prove that? Aha! It's biologically unviable. And nothing that's biologically unviable could possibly be normal, because normal means...nothing. In this context, it's a useless word.
>>61620911>because an individual gay person may not reproduceCorrection: because an individual gay person may CHOOSE not to reproduce - because, as we all know, gays can have kids if they want to.So the argument from normality becomes an even more absurd proposition. It's not even an argument about abnormal function, it's an argument about abnormal choices. But where's the contempt for people who like pineapple on pizza? Or really spicy foods? These are rare tastes, but who cares?Homosexuality only matters because we presuppose that the choice not to have kids is a big deal. But this logic is just the excuse. When you ask a bigot to explain his bigotry he'll tell you some shit about normality or whatever, but it's a lie. The answer is that he's a bigot. He doesn't like them and he wants to hurt them, and his justifications for cruelty are post-hoc.
>>61614763He seems like a great commander, though given he mainly fought turks it might have been a bit too easy for him. he did do well against the french later on though, that has to count for something.
Soijack image posters need to be automatic bans at the device level.
>>61588040Most of the elites in Roman and Greece hated and denigrated faggots, and that is the top 0.5% of society, the general populace probably hated them more. All this pomp is why faggots are weak. And it is why I don't put much stock in strategy, it is nothing more than the muling of the weak who lack strength. That is to say that it is the resort of those who could not build up a massive logistical advantage over the foe and properly indoctrinate effective tactics into their men and let them do the work. It had a much bigger place in war prior to 1940, but these days it is almost and impediment. A war without strategy is a murderous slaughter of the the entire enemy population with the most efficient and expedient means available as determined by dispassionate calculations. When unleashed Taylorism cannot be defeated, it is only checked by worthless faggot politics. Also a huge number of rural white Christians in America want to exterminate every other race/creed/culture in existence and replace it with their own; and they murder homos on the sly.>sucking off the jews who can't even purge a bunch of muds despite being given trillions over the decadesWell you are a fag so it is to be expected.
>>61619893They used to claim that everybody supported fag marriage in the 2000s yet it lost badly every time it was put to a popular vote and had to be forced throughout the courts, just like every other progressive cause ever. The vote as 90% against it in 98 in fucking California. Polls and surveys have become increasingly unreliable due to increasing animosity toward the institutions which conduct them, lack of response, poor data collection methodologies, inaccurate calculations of district populations from which the results on polls and surveys are extrapolated based on the distribution of responses. Even beyond the shitty methodology the results themselves have become politicized by faggots like yourself who use them as post hoc justifications, thus we have no idea what the population thinks anymore.
>>61620911>>61620973Christ. Now I know what's got your panties in a bunch. My argument wasn't presupposing value in biological viability. Question: Is there a baseline range of physiogamy, anatomy and behaviors, driven by environmental and genetic pressures and influences, which produces a distinct species of animal?(eg. Recognizably "lion", etc.)Is that baseline range of what would be recognizable as a distinct species not what would be called "normal"?NOT natural, just normal, plain, average.Animals naturally get sick, get fucked by genetics, etc., etc., I'd agree with you that, and we're not here to argue about what's natural.Then, if the vast majority of animals reproduce heterosexuality, would that not be the average, plain, normal occurence?Homosexuality exists in nature, sure, by that, it's perfectly natural. Again, we're not here to argue what natural is.You saw the word "for a reason", instantly assumed that I have a Teological view of evolution, assumed by biases, and started calling people bigots.Look, dude, I don't even have anything against fags, but from the sounds of the end of your post you've got quite a chip on your shoulder.
>>61617656they were also on austria's sidei don't get why italy was so shit
>>61621819>Is that baseline range of what would be recognizable as a distinct species not what would be called "normal"?Sure.And, at baseline, 1 in 300 people have schizophrenia.A group of 300 people without a schizophrenic in it would be abnormal.Schizophrenia is normal.>Look, dude, I don't even have anything against fagsThen maybe you should ask yourself why it's so important to you to be able to say that they're abnormal biological deviants. Homosexuality IS normal. Normal doesn't mean majority or even common. That's why we have different words.
>>61621638>Most of the elites in Roman and Greece hated and denigrated faggots,their homophobia credentials might not be too great when you look at the things which the romans didn't include in the definition of faggotry: cumming inside a twink and cuddling him afterwords, mutual jerkoff sessions, raping another man etc.
>>61621638rome was the original globohomo fags, germania and judea were the good guys
>>61588040>Some see it as a sort of Greco-Roman chad thing suppressed by weak Christian moralism which has enslaved everyone into thinking they're worthless sinners and should "turn the other cheek" and "forgive."This website is 18+ kiddo.
>>61589877this is gay cope>>61588040homosexuality is not natural and homosexuals are mentally ill
>>61625054Well, I would not put the Ancient Germans in good place regarding this issues. "The Naharvali proudly point out a grove associated with an ancient worship. The presiding priest dresses like a woman; but the deities are said to be the counterpart of our Castor and Pollux. This indicates their character, but their name is the Alci. There are no images, and nothing to suggest that the cult is of foreign origin; but they are certainly worshipped as young men and as brothers."Tacitus, Germnia So, the Ancient Germans had a dignified place for their effeminate men. An option for them, was the priest caste. In the hundreds ancient sources about homosexuality in the Greco-Roman sphere, I never found something comparable. From them, there were only bottom shamming.
>win three crippling victories over Rome in the span of only 18 months>Romans lose 20,000 men at Trebia, not counting those captured>Lake Trasimene saw an army of 25,000 destroyed>another, larger (some 80,000 men, Roman army was annihilated at Cannae>and still another at Silva Litana>Romans literally lose a fifth of their military-age men in less than two years>they resort to conscripting slaves and criminals into the legions to replenish their numbers>somehow completely fail to capitalize on your success>instead of moving on Rome itself, spend the next few years getting bogged down in a war of attrition with the foe that by rights you should have already defeated>lose the war
Fagriculture was a mistake.
>>61610512You're not giving MacArthur enough credit. You've forgotten that time he successfully chased a bunch of WW1 vets who wanted their paychecks out of DC.
>>61624919Sorry, but you're just huffing zigger-grade copium.https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/normal>Maybe you should ask yourselfDitto. Putting objectivity aside, to me, normal isn't even necessarily good; you could just as easily want to distance yourself from the masses. I'm just setting definitions straight, but it's clear that neither of us are gonna budge on this.
>>61625486Thank god semetic religions put an end to this sodomite nonsense.
>>61625900So, firstly, you're wrong, for reasons I've already explained.But that's not actually the part that matters because I get the point you're attempting to make (even if 'normal' is the wrong word to do it with) and you're correct to say that even if I accept that homosexuality is abnormal that doesn't then imply anything about what we should do about it. Some people are born with three fingers instead of four, and that's abnormal, but that doesn't mean we fire up the gas chambers or whatever. Why am I so bitterly resisting this anodyne observation that homosexuality is not normal (uncommon)?And the reason why is because it's the precursor to bigotry. Even if that's not where you're trying to go, it's the place that plenty of others are more than happy to go based on their own shitty faulty reasoning or because they've been led there. The argument is wrong and it tends in a bad direction. I've asked myself the question and answered it.
>>61589877Kek
>>61620731Ants are doing all right (read: the undisputed masters of this planet) despite the vast majority of them being infertile.
>>61626135By that same vein, your notion of "problematic ideas" is itself a slippery slope to dogmatism. Let people engage with ideas, the facts and with other people; it's one of the cornerstones of our liberal society.Virtue is the most effective response to prejudice, as MLK and Gandhi have aptly demonstrated, not the twisting or obfuscation of definitions to suit your narrative.
>>61585490Houston
>>61625047Of course there's nothing gay about cumming inside a twink. The implication that merely having sex with another man must always be gay is purely homosexual propaganda.
>>61626349>By that same vein, your notion of "problematic ideas" is itself a slippery slope to dogmatismYes and no. If the idea were correct it would be a problem, but it's not.
>>61614763Not having him at her service costed France a decisive victory during the war of the Spanish succession
>>61626392what about cuddling him afterwords?
>>61626630Nothing gay about a manly cuddle with your bros.
>>61625575>Romans literally lose a fifth of their military-age men in less than two years>They still outnumber you 5 to 1 in theater
>>61600349>decades down the line be remembered as a military miracle worker because of a movie and a couple of accountsWell more the point, he was remembered because Montgomery had to salve his wounded ego by puffing his opponent up.
>>61610512Honestly, none of that is as egregious as his record in Korea.>>61612590>>61613390>>61610512Stilwell wasn't a good general but his shitty reputation was overblown by the China lobby because he openly talked about how incompetent and corrupt Chiang Kai-Shek was. People don't remember but Chiang was a sacred cow for Americans in the 40s. If you suggested that perhaps his leadership wasn't effective or he was making questionable choices, Time magazine would be slandering you as a commie traitor within a week.
>>61615313> I don't know how he didn't get axed right away.The Austro-Hungarian emperor at the start of the war was a moribund sad sack who knew shit was fucked and had stopped caring. His successor was a boy out of his depth, but that didn't matter because the Germans were basically running the show by then.
>>61625575>Hannibal overratedRight, close the thread, only trolls and retards remain now.
>>61623348>"For a brilliant attack you calculate how many men can the machine gun kill and you launch an attack with a superior amount of men: someone will get to the machine gun"Probably had something to do with their officers espousing shit like this as a legitimate tactic.
>>61585707where is the evidence he was homosexual? One of the constant themes of the last 20 years is trying to label every single person of note as homosexual. The only think know about Fredrick is that he was raped because he warned his nephew against it. voltaire was not homosexual either.
>>61628143>where is the evidence he was homosexual? One of the constant themes of the last 20 years is trying to label every single person of note as homosexual."Frederick's sexuality was rejected by professional historians for centuries after his death, but was embraced by homosexual publications of Weimar Germany, which featured him on their covers and praised him for governing while homosexual."so no evidence at all.
>>61589737All Charles has to do was shut up, accept parliament, and he could have lived a luxurious life and still wield power and influence. But by the end even Royalists who had fought for him were switching sides and saying he had to go.
>>61614763Better than Marlborough, though Bongs will never admit it. Just like they won't admit that Patton was better than Monty or that Napoleon was better than Wellington.
>>61588645The KKK were basically a college frat at the start, complete with the partying and elaborate pranks. Then Forrest lost control of them and they started to lynch people and shit, and it just spiraled from there. By that point, Forrest was pursuing a political career based on integration, so of course he split off from them.
>>61628963The first and second Klan were good at protecting White southerners and an actual example of an American Volk movement
>>61628143>>61628451theyve been writing no homo articles about him since 1921, and the other guy who was writing no homo articles about him said "also maybe he was just pretending".i think he was just a shittalker and hated women, which really is no evidence of being gay, but its hilarious to me its like half of what people discuss about the dude like 250 years later
>>61610152didn't liu bang kill his commanding officer so he could fuck his wife/concubine?
>>61628725I'm a Bong and I'll accept Monty was a bit shit in France. He was slow and cautious when he didn't need to be but thought he was hot shit at the same time and thought he could just roll over the Netherlands.
>>61630027There are some evidences. For example. when he gave a hint for his heir, his nephew: In his "Matinées" (a kind of guide written for his heir to the throne) to be found in the royal archives in Potsdam, the older monarch took a more sceptical view of his homosexual activities. Though on the one hand he admits that Amor knows no mercy and that it is useless to defy him, yet, on the other hand, he advises his nephew not to follow his example, because it could have serious consequences for him: "the commanders and officers would be more interested in pleasure than glory, and your army would end up in a collection of pederasts, like your Uncle Henry's regiment. From my personal experience I can assure you that that Greek pleasure has little appeal..." Or when had a fight with his brother Henry, because a catamite: "An seinen offen schwul lebenden Bruder Heinrich schrieb er 1746 einen gehässigen Brief, der von Eifersucht um den „schönen Marwitz“[54] geprägt war, Heinrichs Kammerjunker, dem Friedrich unterstellte, an Gonorrhoe erkrankt zu sein.""In 1746 he wrote a hateful letter to his openly gay brother Heinrich, which was characterized by jealousy over the “beautiful Marwitz”[54], Heinrich's chamberlain, whom Friedrich assumed was suffering from gonorrhea."Or his now infamous Goodbye for a secretary : “Mes hémorroïdes saluent affectueusement votre v[erge]” (“My hemorrhoids affectionately greet your cock”)
>>61630172"didn't liu bang kill his commanding officer so he could fuck his wife/concubine?"Well, he was bisexual. His pederastic side, from Sima Qian in his his "Records of the Grand Historian " :"There is a saying that goes, ‘Hard work in the fields cannot be compared to a year of good weather, excelling in service cannot be compared to attracting affection [from your lord]’, and one should not take these to be empty words. Not only women take advantage of their beauty to please others, courtiers and eunuchs have also behaved in the same way.In days gone by there have been many men who have used their appearance to attract the favour of their ruler. Back in the days of the foundation of the Han dynasty the first Han emperor was a man of extreme violence and ruthlessness, but he showed great tenderness in favouring the boy Ji, and during the rule of Emperor Xiaohui there was also the boy Hong. Neither of the two men had any talent to speak of, but by their feminine demeanour they attracted the favour and affection of the emperor. They retired and rose with their emperors and the court officials had to pass through them whenever they needed the emperor’s ear. "It’s ironic that the spiritual father of the most fertile ethnic group in the history of the world, wasted his seeds in the effeminate catamites of the court."During the Xiaohui era the three levels of imperial attendants fixed pheasant feathers on their hats, wore cowry shell belts and painted their faces with rouge, which must have been from the influence of Hong and Ji. Both men ended up residing [beside their lords’ tombs] at Anling."There were a lot of heterosexual courtesans in the closed in those times, trying to take advantage of their beauty. LOL
>>61630647yeah it's fucking bizarre, they had all the women they could want and yet they chose men...I assume a result oversocialization, same as today? also my retarded ass was thinking of Liu Bei, I have no idea why I got them mixed up lmao
>>61628143well what exactly would you take definitive proof of him being a homo? how many romantic friendships with another man and no interest in women are required for you to consider maybe he was a little zesty? 1? Fredrick passes. 2? also passes. 5? Fritz probably still would qualify
