https://www.army.mil/article/277514/south_carolina_guard_modernizes_with_nextgen_squad_weapons>“The XM7, compared to the M4, is definitely a step up,” said Negron. “The rifle is a little bit heavier, but it’s accuracy is definitely worth the extra weight.”
funny thing is its not even more accurate its the same 4moa standardmind blown!
>>61962374because they're also getting the XM157 opticIf you gave the XM157 to people with M4s they'd also be better than current ACOG/LPVO/Red dot equipped M4s, but the XM7 does offer a substantial increase in range capability compared to 5.56
>>61962366>The South Carolina Army National Guard is the third Army National Guard command to receive the new weapons>thirdBut you "people" told me this would never happen??
Just watch the Garand Thumb video hands on with the XM157 near the end where he is moving between a target a 400/600/700 yards making first shot impacts within 2-3 seconds for each target. It's game-changing shit.
>>61962384Yeah because grunts regularly hit 400m+ shots. Might as well skip to the end here and reissue M1917 Enfields with the new optic.
surplus m4s converted to semi-auto when
>>61962391or watch the 9-hole review video with the URGI and see even better performance lol.
>>61962396why would you want a fucked-to-death army M4?
>>61962396the uppers already get distributed, the lowers are torch cut.
>>61962392they sure as fuck don't with 5.56 and an acog.
>>61962366>negron
>>61962408there are still tons in storage unused
>>61962384The optic only gives you a hold, a hold is something that can be trained into you easilythe actual mechanics of shooting accurate, the hard part, is not helped by the optic at all. The optic does not actually make the weapon more ACCURATE it simply tells the soldier wear to point it. Something with a trigger interrupt could actually make the weapon more accurate but this isnt it.
>>61962405>none of those farmers came close to destroying the military Pretty sure Vietnam was close to surrendering before offering a cease fire too. Not sure why you people always conflate Vietnam/Afghanistan with poor military performance.
>>61962409>the lowers are torch cut.lollmao even
>>619624057.62 did THAT!?Stopping power denier bros… where do we go from here??
>>61962421They arent going to you, theyll be dumped on the next nation we need proxy war mic profits for
>>61962396They'll end up being sold off to other countries first. The US government hates arming its own people.
>>61962405>vietnam >illiterate farmersThis is your brain on commie propaganda. They had their own professional army with material support from the Soviets. Even then, they weren’t able to capture south Vietnam when the U.S. was there. Same with Afghanistan
>>61962435FACT, the US started losing Vietnam as soon as they dropped the SOVL stopping power M14 for the Mattel-16
>>61962425The optic gives you a distance and displays the hold for that distance within a moment.Yes, a good shooter who knows the distance can similarly "know" the proper hold without thinking about it, but an optic that does it for you AND can save up to 10 targets and their ranges and the respective holds for each target so that when you aim at a target it gives you the proper aim point and you can switch between the targets with each one showing you a new hold point for the given distance.Sorry, but you're not going to convince me that can be trained easily.
>>61962434Cool, now compare the military performance between American/Taliban forces anon. You spamming cropped wikis Is not an example.
>>61962434>2.5k American dead vs 60k+100k+ dead in 20 yearsSeems like they did fine in terms of military operations.
>>61962434>Wikipedia as a trustworthy sourceI know it's bait but I know the brown skinned noguns fags who spam this shit genuinely believe it.
>>61962445the features of the optic are utterly divergent from what a close combat force actually needs. You dont need a rifle platoon full of people taking 800m pop shots at static targetsyou need to place area fire onto the enemy, enabling an element to maneuver onto them and destroy them with grenades and by shooting them in the facethe giant optic to help people make trick shots is not going to helpalso consider this, with the Army 25 meter zero and 300m qual. Every single shot was already a center hold. So if the problem was knowing holds, everyone would shoot 40/40.Except knowing the hold is not the barrier to making soldiers shoot better. The answer is training.
>>61962418kys sigger
T-this isn’t true. The XM7 will o-only go to f-frontline combat units! M4s on Mars!
>>61962445>Sorry, but you're not going to convince meIt's a good thing nobody cares enough to convince some random nobody on an autism webzone
>>61962434>Taliban victory is when they had to beg the Americans to pull out by appeasing to trumpNothing about is related to the performance of the military. It’s all political.
>>61962454>2 days of russian kia in the current conflictReally puts it into perspective just how much of a nothing burger the stan was
>>61962405>rice farmers lose in 1968>goat farmers lose in 2001 after 2 months(they didn't even try lol)7/10 bait, made me reply.
>>61962464Not a sigger. It’s just fun to laugh at ARfags in denial because they will have to spend $8000 switching up their larp kit
>>61962477It was economically a black eye in the end but spending money is easier than blood
>>61962485>economically a black eye No, it isn’t. The expenditures of Afghanistan was 100 billion per year, not enough to cause a dent. We spend more on education than the war in Afghanistan per year
>>61962485Fair, but thats because you cant teach boomers that throwing monwy at problems doesnt necessarily mean that those problems go away. Nation building is fucktarded and i hope we remember that for the next time we do this shit. Just kill everyone who might be a problem and fucking leave.
>>61962493Thats money still burned in a hole anon. Just because we can bleed 100 billion a year, more than most countries military expensitures, doesn't mean that its inconsequential as that still is 100 billion not spent in the US domestic economy.
>>61962512>not spent on the u.s. domestically Most of the money via military expenditure are reinvested back to American businesses. Stop assuming we are sending pallets of cash for most stuff.
>>61962517Lining the pockets of Raytheon executives doesn’t count as reinvesting in the American economy
>>61962366Do you REALLY need that fancy scope and heavier gun just to hit a target at 300 meters?
>>61962517So a few thousand Americans got richer starting and abandoning infrastructure projects in Afghanistan
>>61962505It’s the same situation back in the states. We spent so much money on healthcare and infrastructure, but there are still issues because the government at the state/local levels misallocated those funds for nefarious purposes. So when people complain about bad roads or healthcare in America, they shouldn’t be blaming the Feds, but rather the local governments receiving those funds in maintaining their infrastructure.
>>61962366The age of the assault rifle is over. The time of the battle rifle has come.
>>61962529>>61962534>lining pocketsWhile there are some truth to this, most of the money goes towards expanding production/research. You can’t replace stuff without the adequate fundings to maintain operations to do so.
>>61962545Who gets exorbitant kickbacks anon? Wars dont benefit the average.
>>61962512>domestic economyMost money does goes towards the economy. America doesn’t have a funding problem, it has the money. The problem it has is a allocation one. You spend money on things that can theoretically improve the quality of life, but it can do nothing if its funneled through someone’s pockets in the category of “healthcare” or whatever.
>>61962557Who's economy? Unless you're loaded and bought a lot of defense stocks no.
>>61962540>not Return of the Battle RifleYou disappoint me son
>War benefits the economy goyimMost people dont participate in the "economy", which is investing in companies.
>>61962553>don’t benefit the average Expanding jobs, which can also improve on the local economy at home. More people get paid, the more they spend on the area they live in. One industry can effect another. They are not mutually exclusive.
>>61962574So those people would have not gotten jobs otherwise?
>Thread almost immediately shifts into politics/economicsCurious
>>61962564Who pays the workers anon? If they expand production, they will hire more workers. If those workers get paid, they can invest in the area they live in and what not. Which can help local businesses thrive. It’s the same reason to why a military base is beneficial for the economy in the area.
>>61962405>entire American armyThere was like 100k US troops in Afghanistan at the peak
>>61962592So those people would have died without government spending.
>>61962599They are private companies working within a contract. If you want an example of what happens if the government stop doing contracts, look at Detroit.
>>61962603So trickle down economics works? Have wages increased with war expenditures? Are houses more affordable? How is number going up benefitting the average joe?
>>61962590/arg/ imploding in denial
>>61962572War is only good for the economy when said economy is wholly reliant on plunder to stay afloat and will fail the moment the conquests stop, so basically Nazi Germany. The rest of the time, it's a net-loss.
>>61962622It’s also the reason to why people thinking Russia having short term GDP gains is something good, when in reality, it’s not. It’s important to diversify the economy into something more stable and consistent. Short burst of expenditures into one sector temporarily would result in a crash.
>>61962638Nobody is denying that the U.S. lost in Afghanistan/Vietnam. People take issue when people conflate it as a result of military performance, which is just disingenuous
>>61962638Kek. They cope by saying “we won militarily but they won politically” yet in the same breath will acknowledge that war is an extension of politics.
>more accurateIt's a floating barrel design - doesn't that just mean you need a better barrel? Is the concern due to ammo?
>>61962648>war is the extension of politicsYes, if you’re talking about the political goal. But in terms of military performance, it’s stupid to suggest they were doing poorly in a tactical sense. Which is what people trying to do when making deflections towards Vietnam/Afghanistan
>>61962366they deleted the forward assist but kept 2 charging handlesfucking morons caught up in bureaucracy
>>61962444>Mattel-16Jesus Christ Anon my sides
>>61962405do you understand that the only reason those 3rd worderls 'won' is because or american military following 'international law'
>>61962430based aid for the White man
>>61962438Good we hate them too.
>>61962366The M4 is a dead platform. XM7 is DOA because it does not fulfill anything. They went back to 1957 for 2027 warfareThe XM7 will be remembered as the most retarded idea that was entertained by the military elite (very high bar). At the end of it the XM7 will be dumped to allied military dictatorships and the US will adopt a hyper-compact integrally suppressed possibly bullpup 5.56 "ultra-short carbine", The Army is a bunch of retards who don't talk to each other - they know where warfare is going (since 2019)https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-army/2019/02/26/the-subterranean-battlefield-warfare-is-going-underground-into-dark-tight-spaces/
>>61963489do you people ever get tired of regurgitating the same retarded bullshit every time the XM7 gets brought up
>>61963684No, and they'll continue bringing it up for years.
>>61963684>>61963694Ever tire of deepthroating MIC lords? Fighting the last war etc. etc.
>>61962438They'll donate them to turd world anti American governments. They need a reason for the MIC to exist and got trample the rights of American citizens once they're afraid of the terrorists uncle Sam armed. Win-win for everybody important
>>61962481>SAAAAR YUO MUST REDEEM THE SPEAR>REDEEM THE 8000 RUPEES BLOODY BENCHOD BASTARD
>>61962374Standard =/= what is actually physically thereA stock M4 can easily BTFO the 4MOA standard
>>61962396>convertedI'd rather them just do away with the NFA, aren't they basically saying they consider full-auto useless in a rifle with this dumbass decision anyway? Why should they even care about us owning full autos when they don't either?
>>61962389Who told you that? The National Guard of 2024 isn't the National Guard of the 1980's. We get new stuff pretty soon after active duty does. It's just that the old shit hangs around in support units and the Reserves for eternity.
>>61963971>Who told you that?/k/, the same board that said only high speed frontline active duty types will get the new stuff while everyone else is stuck with the M4
>>61963992I hope you learned your lesson that /k/ is retarded.
>>61962444Yeah we would have won Vietnam with bigger boolit
>>61963684They're basically biobots programmed to say these things.
>>61964261Real rich coming from a sigger
>>61962444>>61962718I am genuinely curious why the Mattel-16 thing's sprung up again. Is this boomers posting or zoomers pretending to be boomers?
>>61964269Bruh i don't like Sig, why would you even assume that?
>>61962425No, the optic aids in accuracy. It does not aid in mechanical accuracy which is what you mean. And mechanical accuracy isnt worth anything if the soldier cant shoot for shit. So yes, the optic aids in accuracy of the rifle.
>>61963725i like big rifles that shoot big bullets that go fast and punch baseballs in my enemies. ergo, the xm7 chambering 6.8x51mm is fucking sweet
>>61963489A scaled down 5.56 version of the GD bullpup would be cool.
>>61964280Saying that the opposition to Sig are biobots?
>>61964322No i meant the siggers are biobots.
>>61964298>big bullets that go fast>6.8x51mmLol, better off sticking to 7.62 NATO kiddo. Lucky for you, we have these things called DMRs, you can get your AR flavored SR-25 or your Garand-flavored Mk-18, and neither one is going away because the Spear isn't replacing these. Wanted more bullets faster, in a bigger gun? We have that and it's also not going away, it's the M240 and it sucks donkey balls, but feel free to lug it around for your squad.
>>61962366I always thought it was kinda funny how the US stopped equipping regular units with new gear first and just went with "whoever is next scheduled to hit end of service life of their equipment gets the newest stuff"
>>61964429>tfw my unit just got a shipment of brand new M4sat least the fire selector is ambidextrous now...
>>61962366>putting any weight into the opinions of Nasty GirlslolLmoa, even
>>61964463In FY24 the army spent ~$570,000 on M4 procurement. In the FY25 budget they're paying a whole $30,000 for the entire year (basically just enough to keep the program office running). Meanwhile in FY24 they spent ~$18,600,000 on the NGSW rifle procurement, and in FY25 they're spending ~$23,133,000. Not to mention the $186,000,000 for the XM157 optic in FY24 and $252,000,000 in FY25.All of the money is going to the NGSW program at the moment.
>>61962392You are a retard and type like a bitch.>>61962425Most service"men" cannot even do that though.
>>61962741>Slav>White
>>61964561interesting. We got ours two months ago, but I'm also a gigapog so who knows
>>61964588Yeah, not calling you a liar or anything, just saying its clear from a budget standpoint where the army's money is currently going for procurement. M4s aren't going anywhere anytime soon, but we're seeing a LOT of money put into the NGSW program (specifically the optic).
Why are we still using M4s? That barrel is way too fucking long at nearly 15 inches.We need to switch over to 10 inch barrels. When will the MK18 become the standard service rifle?
>>61964341The m240 is a fantastic machine gun what are you on about
>>61964612Let’s just keep shortening the barrel on a rifle that uses a velocity dependent round
>>61963921Yeah the 4 moa standard is how they are deemed serviceable. If they fall below that they are taken off the line.
>>61962366>negronlol>bro you're telling me a free floated rifle with a LPVO is getting better groups than my clapped out M4 with an aimpoint? I guarantee the average block II smokes this thing in accuracy
>>61964806No such thing as a round that's not velocity dependent.
>>61964824>I guarantee the average block II smokes this thing in accuracyWhy?
>>61964840Very true but some are affected by barrel length more than others. 5.56 is pretty heavily effected, as is 7.62x51 tbf which is why 16in scars kinda blow
>>61964852Because the average block II is roughly a 1 MOA gun.
>>61964875So is the spear based on a lot of tests. Did the military buy worse barrels or something?
the integrated camera on the optics to allow blind-firing or seeing around corners/windows/trenches without exposing yourself is pretty cool.
>>61964893No, the XM7 was getting 1-2 MOA fresh and ~2-3 MOA at 5-10k rounds, it should be replaced at 4 MOA.
>>61964893>So is the spear based on a lot of testsMay I see these tests? Not for the civilian .308 version
>>61962366>They gave them to the Guard first because they're actually for penetrating prepper's armorHmmMmmMMmmmMMMmmmm...
>>61962396They'll be distributed to various migrants and anti-white militant groups in the event of a Trump victory this election.>>61962467In all seriousness the XM7 will flop like the m14 because it's an even shitter version of it and they'll quietly replace it with the URGI.
>>61965155>URGIDon't forget the Spear LT. The one that the shills pushing the XM7 aren't talking down on it, or it's current use with SOCOM.
>>61965263>Don't forget the Spear LTI'm forgetting it, and you can't stop me.
>>61964572whiter than you ranjeet
>>61963992No, the high-speeds will keep the m4 because they get close, the regular infantry will get the m7 because they expect range to actually matter
>>61964572We can give them honorary white status, as is tradition when you beat the Russians in a fight as a nonwhite
>>61964893why would you post on this board if you don't even follow gun stuff
>>61962610>So trickle down economics works?Trickle down economics doesn't exist, it's a slander made up by critics on Andrew Melon (Woodrow Wilson administration)>How is number going up benefitting the average joe?Would you rather see number go down? Careful for what you wish for.
>>61965712So exactly the opposite of how it's ACTUALLY getting issued at the moment.Cool story though.
>>61965719>Japanese painting depicting first case of AIDS in japan.
>>61964800Heavy and outdated. It was created in a time where optics weren't as widespread, and its design means it can't hold a zero with one.I think you should take a look at the Ohio Ordnance Works' Reaper. It fixes the optics problem, and it's .338-based bullet can shoot well over a mile. It includes a fire selector so it can pull double duty as a DMR. That and it's lightweight, can be assembled and disassembled in under a minute, and it's easily mounted and dismounted from a vehicle.And to make our allies in NATO happy, it's easily rechambered, so it can even keep using 7.62 NATO and a few other calibers out allies use. On top of that, it's not overly expensive, so it only makes sense that the DoD won't accept it. They hate functional guns, as you can see with how they sabotaged the M1 Carbine in Korea and the M16 in Vietnam.That's really what pisses me off about all this. The XM7 offers nothing new and isn't even suited to replace the guns it's slated to replace. If the rifle was replacing the M16a4s, then fine I guess. We could have done that with the SR-25 but whatever. The LMG is just dogshit though. I didn't mind the change to OCP because it made sense, more than that godawful glowing digital crap. I don't mind the concept of the scopes either, and I don't even mind the idea to have some battle rifles for situations where they may be needed. I mind replacing things that function at their job very well for things not made for that job at all, and the fact that we just adopted an even worse PKM to replace the M249.
>>61962366>"The rifle is a little bit heavier, but it’s accuracy is definitely worth the extra weight">powered scope that literally aims for youmilitary retards everyone
>>61962396never, ATF says once a machinegun, always a machinegun
>>61966455>MelonMellon?
>>61962366It's better because it has the letter X in it. X-Men, XFactor, DMX- all incredible.
>>61962366Do they EVER fire the XM7 without the suppressor?Because if not, why didn't they make the XM7 integrally suppressed then?
>>61969410It has a quick disconnect thread
>>61969105Why does everyone keep dick riding the Reaper, its longer and heavier than both GE's and SIG's offerings.
>>61964270general 4chan contrarianism
>>61969543It's not that much heavier than the XM250. Besides, if the Army thinks the mediocre .277 ballistics are so great, the .338 Norma blows it out of the water. The fact it can be rechambered in already-available calibers also puts less of a strain on logistics.
>>61962366>Negron
>>61962366https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdAYSEm5zJA
>>61970095Its over 10lbs heavier than the XM250, but that's not what I was comparing it to. I was comparing it to the other 338 MGs, Its 5.4lbs heavier than SIG's and 2.8lbs heavier than GD's
>>61970215>less than 25lbsI bet that gun folds under any kind of physical pressure. LMGs have remained relatively heavy for good reasons.
>>61970221 Sub 25lb MGs have existed since the 60s.
>>61970215>Its over 10lbs heavier than the XM250Not loaded. XM250 is 21.27 lbs fully loaded. As far as I'm aware, the stated weight of the Reaper, 26.8 lbs, is also fully loaded. That aside, the fact it can be quickly disassembled and thrown in a backpack seems like it'd distribute some of that better than just being lugged around all day.Ignoring the weight issue, the most glaring flaw is that the XM250 doesn't feature a quick-change barrel. You know what happens without one of those, right?
>>61970340>As far as I'm aware, the stated weight of the Reaper, 26.8 lbs, is also fully loaded.Why would you assume that? Stated weights are almost ALWAYS without ammo on machine guns.
>>61970340>the most glaring flaw is that the XM250 doesn't feature a quick-change barrelBy demand of the US Army, SIGs original design had a quick swap barrel, the army side fuck off with that shit and SIG said okay you're payin the bills.SIG even offers the M250 in 7.62/6.5/etc to foreign militaries
>>61970340> the fact it can be quickly disassembled and thrown in a backpack seems like it'd distribute some of that better than just being lugged around all day.In what situation would you be lugging your gun around all day but not expecting to potentially use it?
>>61963489>“The goal is to get rifle-like velocities out of a very small weapon that is high capacity, that’s either adaptable for room-clearing or confined spaces...getting in and out of vehicles or a subterranean environment, but also applicable for remotely operated systems”https://techlinkcenter.org/news/us-army-researchers-are-turning-it-up-to-11-to-make-hypervelocity-firearms/
>>61970340>As far as I'm aware, the stated weight of the Reaper, 26.8 lbs, is also fully loaded.Think about the weight of 338: about double the weight of 762. 100 shots of 762 is about 7lb. Now apply some common sense and ask yourself how it would be possible for a fully loaded 338 steel MG to weigh as much as a empty steel FN MAG.
>>61970269Doesnt make them not shit.
>>61970462Most of these MMGs won't ever see .338 in a practical sense. They'll be running around with 6.8.
>>61970545Wut?Why would you have an MMG with 6.8? 6.8 will be a squad caliber for the M7 and M250.MMG should be .338
>>61965719Slavs will never be white. They may earn the honorary status of “better than Russians” though, if they win and also behave afterwards.
>The Army makes retarded decisions and is desperate to build the shittiest manufacturer up as their new favorite, probably beacuse of a mix of bribery, Jew-to-Jew backroom dealings and a misunderstanding of what a good service rifle is
>>61970558Because the flexibility is there. Whats the point in further limiting your support weapon by cutting the ammunition weight in half? It doesn't matter how well .338 penetrates when the primary winning factor in warfare has, and likely always be, carrying more ammunition than your enemy, which .338 cuts into
>>61970598Because .338 has the range of .50 with a lot less weight.What's the point of an MMG that isn't any more effective than your standard rifleman in range and penetration through cover?
>>61970748Machineguns aren't about a bigger bullet; they're about a steady fire rate for suppression and hitting moving targets.
>>61970437It can be assembled and disassembled in a matter of seconds dude, no tools needed. It may make sense in some situations to stow it in a pack.>>61970462.227 is even heavier
>>61970598>It doesn't matter how well .338 penetrates when the primary winning factor in warfare has, and likely always be, carrying more ammunition than your enemySo, you also think the switch to .277 is retarded then? Because it's replacing 5.56 weapon systems, cutting into carriable ammo even worse.
>>61970772using that logic, the only machine gun that infantry should be using is match-grade 5.56 LMGs.
>>61962366Gee it's almost like in a few years the army will need a "light scout weapon". Units will have a XM7 and also group of the new worse 5.56 rifle replacement. More money spent on guns we don't need. More need for get more zogbots. more zogbots means you need more government jobs to support it. It's almost like the entire american military is now a scam to defraud taxpayers.
>>61970772Then why are they using 7.62 and .50 cal for their MGs right now instead of 5.56?Moving to 6.8 for the squad rifle and LMG and then .338 for MMGs makes the most sense.We go from using 5.56/7.62/.50 to just 6.8 and .338.
>>61970790Which is what most modern infantry LMGs happen to be. >>61970789No because .277/6.8 is a change to combat the proliferation of cheap and effective body armour, which means we either mass deploy 7.62x51 or a rough equivalent. .338 is functionally overkill, as is .50 cal, hence it isn't required for your normal infantry fireteam. Sustained fire is a better infantry capability than what .338 offer. Marksmen with .338 makes sense. .338 in AFV platforms makes sense. .338 in infantry fireteams does not.
>>61970790Yes, you now realize why the M249 was invented.
>>61970879>No because .277/6.8 is a change to combat the proliferation of cheap and effective body armourThat's headcannon, the actual stated reasons for the switch is to increase range.
>>61970865>halving your rifle and LMG ammo capacity makes senseIn what world? Dunking on Taliban?
>>61970908That is too, ironically. The excuse was stopping power in the early Iraq days.It's all about fudds wanting a bigger bore diameter personal weapon.
>>61970521>PKM>shityou're a fucking moron
Speaking of MGs, I still am not quite sure why water cooling went away completely. Obviously I'm familiar with the discussion - air-cooled is far superior if infantry are going to be lugging it around and water cooling is redundant on aircraft, standardization, the shift from recoil operation to gas operation, etc. - but I don't know why there are zero (0) water-cooled guns in service anywhere when it seems like there's still a niche in the form of emplaced guns against soft dispersed targets. Not a very common scenario, surely, but also one that's common enough to warrant some consideration.
>>61962366>says NegronSounds about right
>>61962462>casually ignores the sources mentioned withinDumb nigger
>>61962480>>rice farmers lose in 1968>"start of the war in Afghanistan"3/10 bait, see me after class
>>61964893Sig also primised 80k psi up to 120k psi and then reneged on that due to accuracy loss caused by bullet deformation occuring because of 80k psi. They backed off the pressure that allowed them to achieve the specs they submitted to the ngsw trial because they couldn't achieve tight enough groups. Since then, sig has made some (according to them) very accurate loads at reduced pressures. Essentially, the M7 is a giant fucking turd that the military was all too happy to throw money at. The 6.8x51mm that was supposed to be the extra spicy stuff that was being perfected for military use and was top secret so sig wouldn't release it to the public, turned out to be a boondoggle and everyones going to be using .277 fury in essense.
>>61971678I expect they'll drop the dumb multi piece case with the reduced pressure too.
>>61962663If you win many battles yet lose the war, you still lose the war. Doesn't matter how high the K/D ratios are if that can't deliver victory. If you're talking strictly military performance, it's a failure of strategy which counts for more than tactics ever will.
>>61962731If America didn't follow the laws of war, that too is a loss, because America becomes a global threat willing to defy the international order in the process. The geopolitical equivalent of a criminal, and one who will face (possibly nuclear) heat.
>>61971688Quite likely. People are going to talk about how they might as well of just stuck with .308, and we'll hear every manner of copium and "ACK-SHOE-UH-LEE, the 6.8x51mm has a slightly higher ballistic coefficient than 7.62x51mm, so it's totally better and heckin valid." I'm fully expecting sig to just start necking down .308 casings to min-max on their sheckel hoarding.
>>61971718The army is building an entirely new production line specifically for the 6.8 bi-metal rounds.SIG is only producing the ammo until the new army plant comes online.
>>61972383Construction only just began recently, so it'll still be 2-4 years until it's up and running.
>>61970448So a 308 bullpup
>>61962582Look at china and the foxconn kerfuffle. One company leaves and brings down whole local economy. There were malls built because the iphone monkeys didn’t have a place to spend their money. And there were people employed by those malls. And the products offered by the stores in those malls had to be made. I hate the copro-dystopia like you wouldn’t believe, but trickle down economics is a thing.
>>61963489>2019Alright well it's been 5 years, what have they discovered and developed thus far?
>>61962399What's so special about the URGI?
>>61972590china has their own Gary indiana now?
>>61971650>America surrendered No, they did not lmao. I don’t think you understand the concept of surrendering, but the U.S. wasn’t close to it by a margin. North Vietnam, however, was close. Which is the main reason they opted out in the cease fire.
>>61971650>AVRNThey had a high amount American of troop level in the country, but yet they only inflicted 50k death in the span of 10 years. You can cope about the death of the AVRN, but it doesn’t take away the fact that they were unable to advance south and inflict that much casualties when the Americans were there.
>>61971689>strategicThe strategic goal was to keep north at bay, which was feasible when the cease fire happened. They were still able to accomplish that goal, despite south Vietnam collapsing years after the pull out.
>>61971479The logistics of just using an existing air cooled machine gun you’ve got in all your other roles instead of having a heavy ass water-hungry machine gun for that very specific job makes it a no brainer
>>61972775>picI don't think I've ever seen anyone else complain about being a loan shark due to discrimination.
>>61962420I noticed too. Wypiposisters, our response?
>>61973431Wrong Vietnam.
>>61962389> Get one crate of rifles to field test.Oh dear, how could we ever had doubted you?
>>61962477>>61962485>"trust us goyim, raiding the US treasury to bomb goat herders is a matter of national security"
>>61969410extra labor time drilling holes in an already expensive cryogenically treated barrel easier to clean a snap on suppressor its not even the most retarded thing on the rifle, like for instance its 2 bolt handles, 3 mag releases and 4 forward assistswhat the fuck are you complaining about silencers for?
>>61973431> ARVN> Advance SouthSmartest milblog on the Internet.
>>61970448>extended range lethality from standard-sized weapons>full-sized rifle velocities with firearms that are half the weight>half the length>hold more ammunition than the Army’s M4 carbine.So they adopted a rifle that is larger, longer, heavier, holds less ammo but the loaded magazines are still heavier, the rifle has a barrel that is only 11 inches but needs a can 5+ inches long to tame the deafening and blinding muzzle flash, and the barrels have an absurdly low life because of the excessive erosion from the pissing hot load. How long until the Army decides to replace the XM7 with the M3 field gun? Without the carriage of course, each man can carry one and the ammo because knees aren't important and we're not made of money.Also this is from 2019.
>>61976092>>61978213Brain fart moment, but you retards know what it originally meant.
>>61973431just you know, so long as you forget about that entire VC insurgency that started when the americans showed up in the first place and Diem started shoving people into concentration huts
>>61978443>VCThey got utterly destroyed in 68 to the point it took them years to recover. The yet offensive buck broke the VC and the NVA had to backfill the ranks because of how bad the losses were.
>>61964270It stems from the fact that Mattel produced a relatively high quality M16 replica toy in the mid-60s and because of the M16's lightweight "toy-like" design, people started conflating the two
>>61970560sanjeet to ten office now!
>>61970221The reason being that it's always just been M240's and M249's which are heavy pigs for no good reason.
>>61965142Please stop being fucking retarded. Please, I am begging you.
>>61970221You are a fucking retard. Stop opining on shit outside of your experience or understanding.
>>61982486The M249 that the XM250 is slated to replace is a mere 3 pounds heavier. The nearly 30-pound M240b is not being replaced, unless you count the proposed M240L that shaves off a whopping 5 pounds.
>>61965142Too bad it doesn't do that then, they just want a bullet fatter and slower than .308 because the Ordnance board is full of the fuddiest fudds that ever fudded.
>>61962374nice broken english
Once again the bullpup fags are eternally btfo at the fact that they're still going through with the sig rifle.
>>61982547Lmao what are you talking about. The 240 is getting the chop when it comes infantry. Also the 240L is practically the standard issue at this point. >>619825546.8 is faster and lighter. Stop smoking meth
>>61982579>Hah! The military has adopted the tried and true M-14! Truly battle rifles are the future. The ArmaLIGHT fags are BAWWING now!
>>61982600>6.8 is faster and lighter.It literally fucking isn't lmao. It's a larger round, you can't even carry as much ammo as you can for an M14, let alone for an M16, due to just how fucking heavy this bullet is.
>>61982259>Noooo you can’t not shill for muh heccin’ Reddit nation nooooo NOOOO THIS GOES AGAINST THE CHOSEN NARRATIVE NOOO YOU MUST BE BROWNWhiter and more full of delicious corn syrup than you, Ivan.
>>61982825>It literally fucking isn't lmao.138g @ 3,000 fpsvs. 170g @ 2,800 fps
>>61983294>147g @ 2,800 fps
>>61971479doesn't water cooling just defer the necessity of air cooling? Wouldn't it be more efficient to put some kind of ablative compound on the barrel to sublimate during very heavy firing instances?
>>61973584we're evolving into a system where all administrative decisions are done by wypipo with browner people to do the dangerous grunt work just like historically. Ignore all allegorical correlations to the late Roman Empire.
>>61971479Maxim MGs have seen use in the current slavwar. There's just no replacement for water-cooled MGs when it comes to trench warfare
>>61973554are you a medieval peasant with a time machine keyboard or did you actually just forget that things were different in the past than they are now? Do I need to spell out next that things from the past can affect the present without things staying the same?
>>61983294Whoever sells you .308 must be giving you the mouse fart handloads, because 3,000 fps is barely breaking a sweat for 125g..308 has better performance than Sig's meme round.
>>61986070>oh noes goyim>I have a successful business that primarily makes money by exploiting the poor and desperate>woe is me, this is anti-semitic>oy vey
>>61986084We are talking about a military round, let's just use the military specs to keep it consistent, okay?M80A1 is 130 grain and from a 24.7" m240 barrel can hit ~3050 FPSXm1186 (the general purpose 6.8mm round) is 130-140 grains and can hit ~2900 FPS from a 15.7" barrel.And the G7 ballistics coefficient of drag for M80A1 is the G7 BC for the M80A1 bullet is about 0.190, but it's something like 0.500 for the 6.8x51 round.So at longer range the 6.8 rounds keep their energy and are much flatter shooting.
>>61982547Bro the XM250 is a full rifle caliber design and will probably just be chambered for 7.62 NATO after they find out that the new cartridge isn't really any better in practise.You are delusional.
>>61986106npc babble
>>61986187They're working on an M240 6.8 barrel swap, and an entirely new ammo production facilties for the 6.8 bi-metal ammo that current production facilities can't produce (and why we're buying the ammo directly from SIG right now). So all evidence suggests they're doubling down on 6.8x51 over 7.62x51.If they planned to move back to 7.62 why would they spend 10s of millions of dollars on a lake city expansion that ONLY adds 6.8x51 production capacity (multiple 10s of millions of rounds per year production rate)
>>61982612>I was told it was just like the m14 so that means I'm right by not thinking for myself Your lack of critical thinking and obvious seethe is apparent and embarrassing
>>61973416Pulling out of a fight completely is surrendering, like getting winded in a race. No need for a white flag or for signed papers. Why else did LBJ step down and Nixon get elected to bring home the troops if the war was winnable? >>61973431 >>61973431>they only inflicted 50k death in the span of 10 yearsYes, because they didn't have McNamara as their strategist but actual pros. Assuming the NVA death tolls were accurate and not completely concocted, it's because combat is the means of war, not the motive. You fight to win, not (just) to kill. If racking up high killcounts were enough then why did America or its allies fail to take Vietnam? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War_body_count_controversy>>61973431>they were unable to advance south and inflict that much casualties when the Americans were there.True, but that's if they even wanted to do so. It's easier to sign a paper and watch them pack up themselves. If they really wanted to ensure victory they would not hand South Vietnam on a silver platter that way
>>61978450True, but that doesn't negate the early campaigns in the deep south the VC conducted well before the Tet Offensive. >>61973440How long could America keep them at bay while they were there, or guarantee things stayed that way when they left? Those Peace Accords only gave Nixon a "peace with honor" instead of a write-off, and the North a window of opportunity to take the South. It's like watching someone tag out of a wrestling match, then watching his tag partner get wrecked. Then he refuses to step in, some victory.That strategic goal was meant to prevent the commies from taking all of Vietnam and for domino theory from unfolding. But only one of these outcomes failed to happen.
>>61982579Mocking, more like it. Look at the lengths conventioniggers go to mimic a fraction of the power of a BVLLCHAD. That's your cross to bear, all 13 lbs of it!>>61986342>implyingI'm a free thinker™ and it is a Neo-M14
>>61972775>picwhat? I thought it was because the church forbid Christians from charging interest, which effectively meant Christians couldn't loan money so all the Jews took those jobs. Christians didn't force Jews to do it, but they did force Christians not to be bankers so it was basically Christians shooting themselves in the foot
>>61986766>Mocking, more like itThis. The Army asked for the qualities of a bullpup, refused the bullpup, then went with a cope machine that constantly underdelivers on what it promised and reveals new issues every few months or so.
>>61986766>I'm a free thinker™You're literally parroting what others are saying without actually looking into either rifle beyond service level comparisons that fall apart at the smallest amount of basic research
>>61987073The bullpup was shit
>>61962366>NegronReally?
>>61987120More than the XM7 that doesn't even fit the contest parameters in its current state? What made the RM277 bad?
>>61987161What made the xm7 not fit the parameters?
>>61964800For pintle mounts it's okay. For running around the M60 brutally mogs it
>>61987226Dumbass high pressure ammo barely hit ballistics requirements, but didn't meet accuracy requirements, but the low pressure shit did, so they cherrypicked stats between the low pressure and high pressure loads for whatever gave better results.
>>61987254How do you know they cherry picked them?
>>61987257Because 80k psi deformed projectiles and fucked with accuracy beyond the set limit? All the ammo being used right now is brass case with sub-.308 ballistics because the meme cases they used were never intended for full-scale use by their own admission.
>>61987112>>61986342>you don't have critical thinking skills!!!>meanwhile takes generals (still butthurt over the 5 people who died on their watch in Afghanistan) at their word that this is the gun of the futureI smell projection.
>>61962517Ah yes, the broken window fallacy. Keynesian economic theory has never worked anywhere, any time.
>>61986307>>If they planned to move back to 7.62 why would they spend 10s of millions of dollars on a lake city expansion that ONLY adds 6.8x51 production capacity (multiple 10s of millions of rounds per year production rate)Yeah I don't see them building new buildings, buying new equipment, etc. if they're going to shelve 6.8 and move back to 7.62
>>61986307Tens of millions of dollars is literally nothing for the US military to throw at a project. If it works out, great. If not, oh well. It's barely even a rounding error in the budget.
>>61987362>has never worked anywhere Based retard
>>61990399It's probably closer ~$70M+ for the building and equipment and winchester themselves are getting $15M ontop of whatever the cost for construction is. In any case, it's the first major expansion of Lake City in decades and it's specifically buying the new tooling required for the bi-metal case used specifically in the 6.8x51 round.This isn't some small scale test, it's been years of you people claiming this is just a small test that will be canned within months.
>>61962630>It’s also the reason to why people thinking Russia having short term GDP gains is something good, when in reality, it’s not.ffs son
>>61962396neverthey will be given to ragheads instead, for free
>>61986187>Bro the XM250 is a full rifle caliber designYes, and?>just be chambered for 7.62 NATORe-read the post, illiterate. In fact, re-read what the Army's doing. They're not replacing 7.62 NATO to begin with, they're replacing specifically the M4 Carbine and the M249 with weapons that don't serve the same purposes. The burst-fire, full size M16a4 isn't going anywhere, nor is the fuckheavy M240.>>61986307See the above, they haven't even moved away from 7.62, what they're moving away from is the ability to operate effectively in buildings and the ability to wage war in urban areas, or areas with thick trees, or any other place where generally having a long, bulky, heavy ass gun isn't great. Sigger corruption is only half the issue at most, the real issue is the brass being actually retarded.>>61986342>I was told it was just like the m14Oh no anon, it's actually worse in literally every metric. You can compare them yourself, if you can take Sig's buttplug out of your ass.
>>61990525Now divide it by GDP
>>61991004Isn't the XM7 like 3 inches longer than an M4 carbine?
>>61991050They're more or less the same once you put a can on.XM7 comes with the can and is ~36"M4A1 without a can is ~33"So yea, the difference in overall length is a few centimeters if running similar accessories.
>>61991050Yeah, but it's also heavier than an M14. How they managed that, I have no idea.
>>61962366lmk when they can get an XM-7 for $400
>>61991852The weight is mostly backloaded at least, since the scope is a big chunk of that extra weight, and it's at the reciever, not up at the muzzle.
>>61964893Considering the military didn’t even test the P320 before they adopted it, sabotaged the Robinson Arms rifle in favor of the Scar, did everything in their power to sabotage the M16, and gave the wrong ammo to the FAL so it would be beaten by the M14 - yes it’s likely that they picked a 20 year old smooth-bore AR to compete against. The whole damn thing is 50% money laundering for Sig and 50% boomers being the geriatric imbeciles they are
>>61970579The M in m7 stands for Menorah
>>61971678>we had to reduce the pressure because…. Because…. Accuracy, ok?
>>61987073The military went with whatever sig delivered. Sig could have served up a musket that shot matza balls and the army would have lake city open a bakery.
>>61986830usury is a sin and banking, in the way that Jews do it, is immoral. Feel free to give me some cope about how it's not though so we can all confirm your theoretical heritage though
>>61965263the spear LTs in military use keep breaking and are being shuffled out of service everywhere. SIG could maybe have a chance if they could produce anything worth a shit
>>61972775the URGI is basically the M4A2. Just the adoption of M4s using newer technology. Lighter rails, free float, better spring system. There are a couple other little things in there but that's dependent where they got the upper from. It's the next stage of M4 development that just makes a great rifle overall. The G$ ones are also super accurate
>>61990525>be Us military >need a 20 round block of ammo delivered >box costs $12 >Bureaucrats send emails to each other for two 8 hour work days to coordinate it @ $500 an hour total (including health insurance, retirement, PTO, & sick leave) >box of ammo given to a gov employee to drive in a gov vehicle for an all day trip, $1500 trip by the time you count gas and everything>ammo is passaged around for three more days as no one actually has the position to handle it, days of phone calls happen within the federal building >finally the box of ammo is delivered, $50,000 later >the biggest defense budget in the world accomplished
>>61995924imagine having your rifle fail in the field and using a sat phone to call sig support only to hear an Indian voice answer the phone, between bullets wizzing by and explosions lmfao >tank you very for redeeming the zig zaur warranty sar
>>61962389The national guard units getting the XM7 are next on the deployment rotation schedule.National guard TO&E isn't different from active army - its just that the guard keeps older equipment that gets replaced by RFI rapid fielding on an ad hoc basis.Guard combat arms units will have shitnlike PVS-7, M16A4's, M203's, M14 EBR & M9's kept in the arms room alongside issued M4A1's with M320, M240L & B's, M110A1/A2, PVS-14, etc.When they are going to deploy they get newer gear on par with active units- some of which goes back to their units post deployment to their ever expanding supply of surplus weaponry
>>61963971Overusing active duty forces esp. for long as fuck deployments had its consequences in early GWOT, so the current meta is to further professionalize guard and reserve because the US cannot need manpower needs otherwise
>>61964429Next up to deploy gets the new shit (outside of the always deployable/ constantly deployed anyway)
>>61962366... Homeboy's name is Negron?
>>61971479A decent amount of AAA (AA guns and SPAAG's/CIWS) is still water cooled (really coolant cooled) - Shilka for example.The only other place where water cooling would make good sense is Tank Coax MG's, but some of them utilize external forced air cooling, and they usually all have heavy AF barrels anyway
>>61962731Hey cool what just happened to that carrier you had patrolling the south china sea? OOPS the other nations of the world aren't being as cooperative after the US decided it was above international law, guess we'll never know :^)
>>61964572>one brand of displaced after WW2 russian vs another displaced after ww2 russiansgo back to rebbit
>>61962444 BEEGUR BOOLIT WOULD HAVE WON VIETNAMS
>>61962391yeah the round is pretty damn cool, Im not a huge fan of the rifle itself though. I wish it was a more slimmed AR-10 style.
>>61962374>new 4 MOA gun is more accurate than clapped out "4 MOA" gunsure
>>61995924>rifle was supposed to be able to be stripped on the field>handguard needs torque specs to be secured>new contract bid to find someone to make a handguard so they can stop relying on arisaka zero retention clapsWas this all just a ploy to get more money? Make shitty product, fix problem after getting paid, call it innovation, get dick sucked. Is Sig thinking 3 steps ahead?
