are they good?what are their shortcomings?what are they designed to do? (the military is a geopolitical tool of the state and it's designed by it based on the geopolitical context it is in and its goals)
Do your own homework.
>>62908579>be french in shitboxes>die
>>62908589this is part of it
>>62908579They are designed to be a light force with high mobility.They are one of the rare western countries to actually have recent battle experience.They have nuke subs, nuke carriers and nuke bombs and their doctrine allows for first strike.They have islands all over the world (weather they can defend them is questionable though). But an immobile unsinkable carrier is a great asset.They insist on strategic autonomy, which automatically makes it a top tier force.This means that they sometimes have less access to "cool" stuff, but they are independent. Think about the next 4 years with Trump in Power and his threats to NATO. What if Russia goes on and attacks a NATO member and Trump not only removes the US from NATO but also prevents its NATO customers to use American weapons on Russian soil (I know it's a lot of projection, but the point/argument remains).They get a lot of flak (not always undeserved) but they definitely punch above their weight and are a force to be reckoned with. My 2 cents (worth exactly that: $0.02) is that any victory against them would be a Pyrrhic victory (except maybe against the US).Check out those for more info:Battle order has a few videos on them. start with "How France Fought a Lightning War in Mali (Op Serval)", then continue with https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLwb1pjLd3hpKc_JOA__JsSVsjW4UofXMuhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5eUh3_eo9Ehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1iS6ib45Z8
>>62908579>are they good?Yes.>what are their shortcomings?Their fleet & airforce uses a bit older equipment than their peers.>what are they designed to do?Expeditionary warfare, domestic security, provide a heavy division to NATO and be able to form a multinational Corp for NATO.They are best compared to the UK. Which has a similar place in the world and similar focus on defence. (Excluding domestic security) They also have the same design. A difference is that when faced with budget restrictions the French generally focus on maintaining mass, the UK focuses on retaining quality. As you would expect from geography France also prioritise the army more than the UK does.
>>62909166>They are one of the rare western countries to actually have recent battle experience.LMAO. Counterinsurgency experiences are hardly recognized as useful battle data against foes with actual military prowess lol. You might actually call Latin American militaries more battle hardened than fucking baguettes niggers who shamefully retreated from Mali.
>>62909221>LMAO. Counterinsurgency experiences are hardly recognized as useful battle data against foes with actual military prowess lol.Fair enough, but it's better than nothing. According to you, which western country has battle data against a foe with actual military prowess?>You might actually call Latin American militaries more battle hardened than fucking baguettes niggers who shamefully retreated from Mali.Ah, OK, Russian shill, opinion disregarded.
>>62909253US, Turkey, SK, pretty much any countries with big ground forces. The French don't even have a meaningful number of MLRS, and now they're looking into a fucking Indian joke lol.>Ah, OK, Russian shill, opinion disregarded.Ah, yes, trying to label me as one of them yeah? Kek, the absolute state of perfidious surrender monkeys lol.
>>62909335When did the US last fight a foe with actual military prowess? How about Turkey? How about SK?Did you get your 5 rubble yet?
>>62909358>When did the US last fight a foe with actual military prowess? How about Turkey? How about SK?The US is literally the pinnacle of new military equipment alongside with its large scale stockpile of symmetrical weapons. Turkey has been facing active aggression from Greece for almost a century and they shot down each others fighters jets. SK were bombarded by North Koreans occasionally in the 2010s. What kind of world are you living in?>still calling me a vatnikAt least, you've admitted that the French are actually interested in Indian equipment.
>>62909335>yes, trying to label me as one of them yeah? Kek, the absolute state of perfidious surrender monkeys lol.To be fair, you kind spewed bullshit without any argument past lol french bad surrender monkeys. Whether your Russian or pajeet or burger doesn't matter, you have no argument and your opinion can be disregarded.Even your follow up response has nothing of substance
>>62909406>The US is literally the pinnacle of new military equipment alongside with its large scale stockpile of symmetrical weapons.OK, but which foes with actual military prowess have they faced?Turkey has been facing active aggression from Greece for almost a century and they shot down each others fighters jets.Greece has actual military prowess?SK were bombarded by North Koreans occasionally in the 2010s. NK military prowess, lol... As I said, your opinion can be discarded.I'm done answering you, I have better things to do.
>>6290857913 posts, 2 actual attempts at answers.It's sad OP, but a question like that might actually get more serious responses on reddit.
>>62909430The only bad thing I ever uttered about you is that the French have nothing but big mouths. Their current military won't last a week in a war without outside help, since it seriously lacks manpower. Grande Armée is a joke.>NK military prowess, lol... As I said, your opinion can be discarded.Being able to pull out 200 million bomb shells out of your garage within a few weeks is no joke, Pierre.
>>62909470>Their current military won't last a week in a war without outside helpAgainst who? France is surrounded by allies. Any serious conventional military threat is one at distance. Hence the french focus on expeditionary and multinational operations.
>>62909435>OK, but which foes with actual military prowess have they faced?China, Russia, Iraq, Iran, and North Korea. Is that enough for you?
>>62909168>French generally focus on maintaining mass, the UK focuses on retaining qualityMore like UK doesn't care about having a land army while France does care.
>>62909499China, Russia, Iran and North Korea... When was that? That experience barely means anything nowadays, the whole nature of the battlefield has changed. Russia tried zergling rushes from WW2 and had to adapt in Ukraine.Iraq, Iran, North Korea --> actual military prowess. LOL.Lol, that other anon is right, you have no idea what you're talking about, you fell for the French surrender monkey meme and your opinion can be discarded. When you're a dumbass, it doesn't matter where you're from
>>62909406>turkey facing greek aggression Get out roach
>>62908579I'll try to answer the shortcomings.Like the other anon mentioned, the frogs value strategic autonomy, which is cool, but expensive. While they are one of the richest and most educated countries in the world (other countries are catching up) they do not have enough money to develop and maintain all they would want to have. Look at how they were able to only afford 1 carrier instead of their ideal 2. Look at their overseas holdings compared to their navie. On top of that, a nuclear program and subs are also very expensive.The other issue is sometimes lack of social and therefore by extension political will. Army means killing innocent people, therefore it's bad. They have on multiple occasions slashed their industry (like small arms) and capabilities (they have almost no airlift and rely on alliesfor that).Their forces are relatively well suited for their needs, being an expeditionary force to protect their interests abroad, but how long will they be able to maintain that? At least the war in Ukraine shows euros that they MUST invest in defense if they don't want to get fucked by the Russians, but they (the Russians) have done a fantastic job of encouraging social dissent in the West and encourage far right Russian friendly parties get popular.In conclusion, while they are a nuclear power to be taken seriously, it might not be for long. Thanks for coming to my ted talk>>62908589
>>62909494Last time they seriously fought was what? Iraq War1?
>>62909221>that guy who thinks trench warfare is actually what war will be because he thought russia was a first-world military.
>>62908579>FARThey're shit. Their major military doctrine is to send in the FFL as cannon fodder first then their main troops.
>>62909221>Counterinsurgency experiences are hardly recognized as useful battle data says who? something tells me you are a nobody who never was anywhere near real military / intelligence communities. look at Russians dying against nomads in the Sahel as we speak. live with your time grandpa. >fucking baguettes niggers who shamefully retreated from Mali. cope more retard, France lost less soldiers in +10 years of Operation Barkhane (53) than Russia did in 5 months (100+) kek. >>62909335>Turkey, SK and how exactly did Turkey and SK got more battle hardened compared to France in the past decades? please tell me, I can't wait to laugh at you >now they're looking into a fucking Indian joke lol they are only "evaluating", just like they are evaluating other offers, that's how you bring in competition retard. anyway I would rather buy one piece of equipment from India rather than depending on NK's garbage kek >perfidious surrender monkeys "perfidious albion" is used for the Bongs, not the Frogs, Magomed. git gud with your memes or ask Igor to give you a training for a bag of cheetos. >Turkey has been facing active aggression from Greece for almost a century and they shot down each others fighters jets. looool that's your battle hardened "military prowess"??? sporadic encounters spanning over 100 years? LMAO what I remember is Greece shot down a Turkish F-16 using a French Mirage back in 1996 hahaha. you absolute clown >At least, you've admitted that the French are actually interested in Indian equipment. I wonder where you are from. probably Turkey. your country is even more of a shithole that produces nothing of value for export than India LOL >>62909470>Being able to pull out 200 million bomb shells out of your garage within a few weeks an ultra authoritarian dictatorship with a war economy and a starving population of slaves is capable of producing 200 million shitty bomb shells for which more than 45% will fail to explode. wow!
>>62909335The Indian thing is probably a swapsies deal to seal them into the French customer base>Turkey and SK have more experience fielding actual military operations than FranceRetard
>>62909335>now they're looking into a fucking Indian joke lol just like Israel is buying Indian weapons. looks like it works pretty good to erase your kind :) >>62909470>Grande Armée is a joke. you are the joke of the thread atm Mehmet. still seething about your shitty under educated Ottoman empire collapsing because of the French? hhhhaahaa >>62910867their military doctrine is to be a highly effective expeditionary force with strong deterrence capabilities and an independent military industrial complex. they have all the three. maintaining all this in the long term is the real challenge. >>62910810 you have to be at least 18 to post here. anyway: Iraq, Yugoslavia, Cambodia, Afghanistan, Chad, Lybia, Mali, Syria, CAR that's only a few from the past 25 years...
>>62908640>>62909335These posts have convinced me that France is very weak and we should not risk war with Russia who is very strong and who is not gargling Nork cock with the thirst of a Warrior IFV dreaming of a belt fed autocannon.
>>62909166thanks based effortposterhow could the us prevent NATO cunts from using their us made weapons?how does France pursue strategic independence? I know they try to make most of their stuff in house for once
>>62910529>might not be for longwhy?>protect their interests abroad?which are?my understanding is that when they decolonised they left in power guys that were in bed with the French Gov so they paid these dictators and they sid what they were asked in exchange for living like kings and not giving a shit abt their population, plus they had their industry already present there and it remained, so:>get to export to these francafrique cunts = french biz make more money + more French jobs = more tax income + likely other stuff idk abt>CFA franc makes it so franceafriqe cunts keep 50% off their foreign reserve in French banks, idk the technical implications but it gives leverage to France over them, CFA also has an exchange rate that makes these cunts uncompetitive on the world market thus partly stifling entrepreneurship in the country + French business outcompeting rising ones, this exchange rate also makes it cheaper for France to buy from frcafrq cunts >French companies also own and operate infrastructure in some cunts, like ports and rail, giving leverage again (you don't do X i fuck with your ability to move stuff you need, or at least that's the unspoken threat and they know it)>natural resources, again mined and owned by French companies, of strategic importance to supply the economy, not enough to be self sufficient but still nice to have, especially URanium in Niger for nook reactors >have bases and infrastructure there so you can deploy more easily + pre deployed garrisons = strategic operational capability to intervene there if needed (why would that be the case idk)>1/2
>>62911131>support the Gov there to have stability and no terrorist groups so your companies can do biz better and not have nigs blow up your mines and trucks etc, or chaos making people not buy products at the market (nestle), also to not have terrorist hubs there that might be staging points to then attack on euro soil (I read this but is it actually the case? I mean a negro Muslim fundamentalist can just buy an ak on the streets, it's not hard for real, and shoot up a public gathering)do euro countries have the industrial base to pump out materiel (ammo and vics) at the appropriate rate to sustain a conventional war (hate this term that's just war, it's COIN that's the exception and should be specified)? if not how long would it take to develop it ?seeing how much euro cunts already spend and how much they tax I believe they could very well be able to have big ass capable militaries but they should substitute their social shit expenes with military, idk what countries other than my euro cunt spend their money on in detail but in general yes that said I dont believe that Russia is that much of a threat conventionally, in terms of attacking NATO countries, there are some ifs in terms of would NATO cunts - USA be able to sustain the attrition rate and have enough ammo supplies to last + be willing to replace human losses, but I doubt Russia would attack NATO while still at war in Ukraine, and their capabilities are still there alotugh reduced, they're mostly using old matieriel, but their air force is still in good shape and they have decent amounts of missiles + books, and their shit is old but they still have big amounts of it in storage + small amount of production + willingness and ability to generate manpower, so they're not muh 2nd power or whatever but they're still to be taken seriously, even if you dont get steamrolled, even if you hold 100% of your land you'll still sustain significant attrition in a conventional war with Russia
>>62911185plus I dont think Russia would attack a NATO country, but were talking about preparation so that's something to prepare for, also because if you dont then you're more likely to be actually attacked bc you're weak
I don't have much of an opinion, but blessed be the effort posters!Also lol at the low effort trolls claiming turkey, Latin america and Korea have more battle exp than the French or thinking that America's war experience against China, Russia, Iraq, Iran, and NK is worth anything anything anymore. Those wars happened more than 20 years ago and the nature of war has changed. Like he said, worthless opinion to he discarded.
>>62910963>just like Israel is buying Indian weaponsNo it isn't.
>>62909221>Counterinsurgency experiences are hardly recognized as useful battle data against foes with actual military prowess lolSo they should go to war with China, the only adversarial country with actual military prowess currently in the world, just to accue some experience?Also why are you pretending like organisational and logistics experience don't matter? The frogs were able to operate in Africa without issues (albeit with the assistance of some of their allies like the bongs who lended some strategic airlift and other RAF assets for them) while Russia can't even push into Kiev without causing a massive logistical traffic jam.Are you by any chance retarded?
>>62913490>Also why are you pretending like organisational and logistics experience don't matter?They can be achieved through other areas like peace keeping missions, and etc. If the logistics skill is the best lesson you've learnt from a war. I don't know what to say about it. Even Amazon would have better logistics skills than any military in the world.
>>62913536Except there's a big difference between a peace keeping operation and actually waging an expeditionary war.>and etc.Elaborate.>If the logistics skill is the best lesson you've learnt from a war.Logistics wins wars. It's not the only lesson but it's certainly one of the most important.>I don't know what to say about it.Then don't comment. Would have made this exchange a lot less painful.>Even Amazon would have better logistics skills than any military in the world.Yes, Amazon clearly is engaging in supplying militaries all over the globe. For your sake I hope that you're just pretending to be retarded.
>>62913564Well, the current Amazon is kinda like the Fedex+UPS so it is true that it can operate across oceans. Also, a lot of militaries do outsource logistics to civilian companies so what you're saying is only half true.
>>62908579Bruh they're fuckin' dogshit lmaoWorst two divs ever, rather play Berliner Grupperung kek
>>62913573So what's your point?
>>62913453they do lol. that's not even a secret anymore. from bombs to missiles to drones: https://thedefensepost.com/2024/06/26/india-supply-israel-weapons/ https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2024/6/26/india-exports-rockets-explosives-to-israel-amid-gaza-war-documents-reveal https://cms.thewire.in/world/diplomacy/govt-owned-munitions-india-ltd-exported-ordnance-to-israel-as-gaza-was-reduced-to-rubble
>>62913875>In a recent report, The Wire established that the Hyderabad-based Adani-Elbit Advanced Systems India Ltd. – a joint venture company between Adani Defence and Aerospace and Israel’s Elbit Systems – had exported munitions in the form of Indian-made aero-structures and subsystems purposed specifically for military use for over 20 Hermes 900 UAVs/drones, if not complete drones, to Israel between 2019 and 2023.Wow so they're importing cheap subcomponents for drones that are made by an Israeli company in India to cheapen out the process? Thumbs up, Anon. Another great victory of our glorious Hindu master race.
I absolutely GUARANTEE that Macron has asked the French military for options and was told that they can’t do anything or that anything they can do is VERY RISKY. What it boils down to is that the French — the entire Western world’s actually — military bureaucracies don’t WANT to step into Ukraine. It’s not a matter of literally being unable, it’s a matter of no one wanting to for one reason or another. Simply put, the West is suffering from a leadership crisis. Putin is a leader which is why such a poor country seems to be getting away with flaunting the will of Europe.
Nothing to say that isn’t covered by other posts, hope you got what you needed anon >>62913938There isn’t much incentive to field western militaries, most euro publics aren’t war hawks, if you want to step up support there’s always just more aid packages to subside your own domestic industry, and the escalation shit is mostly a meme but something might actually happen if there actually were NATO boots on ground. NATO is going to be suffering from some leadership issues from January onwards though, one imagines
>>62914066>There isn’t much incentive to field western militaries, most euro publics aren’t war hawks,Exactly this, why would a European country go to war. Those things are costly in capital and human resources. Any war against Russia would be pointlessly expensive (even for the us); and while I'm certain of a European victory eventually, it would be a Pyrrhic one at best (actually, even if Russia wins it would be a Pyrrhic victory). Why would a leader risk loosing Political points for an external war. All they can do is help Ukraine from a distance, and they've done so very well (enough? That's another question). But look at how the Russia's 3 day war went (admittedly, they're unconventional warfare capabilities are really advanced, I'm talking KGB, spy and pay opps shit). Putin can be a war hawk since he is essentially a dictator, but he is fucking up his countrie's future (he won't care when he's gone though). He fed his people delusions of nationalistic grandeur (the tzar and commie motherland), but he's not helping the brain drain and the loss of how many thousands of young working age male.>>62908579Sorry OP, not a lot of serious answers, which is to be expected when discussing France, but still sad. They were one of the top powers for a long time, but that time is gone. It still clings to it's once glorious past, and uses that experience relatively well, but it's still a shadow of it's former self.
>>62914358>>62914066>why would a European country go to war.to preserve the rule based international order that they benefit from and not have new age of instability due to regional players being emboldened and trying shit due to passing the message you can get away with it.but that would be if Russia actually were to have serious success in ukr, like if the line collapsed, or better before it did so to actually have time to deploy, then theyd have to step in.but in the current situation no, although the Russians are gaining territory every day, but at high cost and if you zoom out it's still not much over the total.ukr has manpower problems tho
>>62914767>to preserve the rule based international order that they benefit from and not have new age of instability due to regional players being emboldened and trying shit due to passing the message you can get away with it.Well I'm sure that the second Russia steps into NATO, all hell will break loose on it. France (since they're supposedly the main subject of this thread), Poland , Baltic countries and Finland would supposedly supposedly just roll into Russia asap. I don't think Russia would be so dumb to actually attack a NATO or EU member. Even if Pootine says so, I hope his generals will have the common sense to suicide him out if a window.
>>62908579Frogs have a nuclear warning shot doctrine so yeah they are pretty based if you ask me
>>62914904Eyyy zere, iou arre guettïngue a litteul bitte closse wiss Yorre armie zerre so aïe ouwill balance a litteul nouke ine Yorre direction. If iou Donte stop I ouwill balance ze bigue nouke!
>>62914358>>62914767This checks out frogs have an insecurity problem when they're faced with the truth they can't bear with. France no longer has hightech industry to speak of. Look up where the chips needed for your missile production are coming from and you will see why.
>>62915766Genuine question, who the hell produces their own chips?
>>62910893It's just assessment. European MIC always does this, and then never buys Indian, kek.>>62910529>NavieThe esl's in the thread, my God.>>62910996Yeah this is a warriortard thread.
>>62915829>The esl's in the thread, my God.Yes, I'm one of the dozens of people who don't live in the US. How many languages do you speak perfectly asshole?
>>62915813Taiwanese and Coreans
>>62915934The only language I ever need to know, and the national language of the US of A. Spanish.
>>62915934>I am from (insert irrelevant nation)Yeah.
>>62916043If that's your outlook on life and geopolitics, wtf are you doing on a thread about the French?I would argue that you responding like that to what is essentially a typo makes you irrelevant as a person. As you grow up in life you will maybe realise that your geographic origin has nothing to do with your intellectual skills. In fact, it doesn't matter where you'll end up in this world, you'll still be a dumbass with delusions of self importance.
Hey frogs is your military still doing presence patrols in the cities?
>>62908579The army is a tiny forces of 120k troops, only about 20k being actual combat troops.The Leclerc tank? Only about 40 are functionnal, the 200 others are kept as spare banks because not a single part is being manufactured anymore.Good? To do some light counter insurgency work in Africa, maybe.
saving the thread
