who's gonna defend greece if turkey gets too uppity? i don't believe the entirety of nato would respond equally, so which country in the atlantic sphere would be tasked with holding the brunt of the turkyie forces?
greece probablyDefinitely not the EU since that's ran by Turkschland
>>62912272i doubt greece's gonna be able to defend the gazillion islands and inlets in its territory on its own. especially considering that their navy is abysmal. they do have quite a lot of tanks, which puzzles me cause they're living in a hilly and mountainous land where tanks are ill suited for both offense and defense.
Turkey can unironically just wait out and Greece will disappear on its own with its 0.7 birth rate.
>>62912303>countless choke points and hard cover>bad for tanks l o l
>>62912268Greece has individual defense treaties with France and the US, on top of NATO and the EU. They're not stupid, they know that the EU is cucked.
>>62912268How would that work? They're both part of NATO, no in-fighting alowed right?>2024 GDP spending>ISA 3.37%>Greece 3.08%>Turkey 2.09%>Canada 1.37% near bottom of the packFuck me sideways my country sucks. :-(https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/7/11/how-much-does-each-nato-country-spend-in-2024
>>62912359turkey itself shares a similar birthrate. real turks mind you, not the syrian/afghan/iraqi rapefugees currently cucking them out of extinction. the immigrant situation in turkey is so dire that erdogan actively uses them as a tool for diplomatic leverage>do as i want or i'll flood your country with the parasites currently eating me alive
>>62912377>cucked EU is defending a country that isnt even in the union.
>>62912367>choke points>use tanks instead of fortifying them with bunkers and bumpersretard, tanks are used when you're out in the open without cover, and need moving armor to support your troops, and can freely move and maneuver to engage other armored vehicles. that's why armored warfare is so popular for russia, ukraine, poland etc, cause they are huge plains with flat terrain. if your country is a labirynth of rocks and hills you can park all the infantry you want and give them high ground and solid cover for free. that's how the greeks repelled the italians btw, despite being heavily outnumbered and outgunned. greece is the afghanistan of europe
>>62912417We can see that tanks in the open are easy pickings. I'd rather have a bunker on tracks behind solid rock.
>>62912405/pol/tards live in their own reality
France, Italy, and for what it's worth, Cyprus. Other EU members would also help but these would show up first. They hold regular military exercises.
>>62912405and that's working out really well for Ukraine
>>62912441how would turkey counter france or italy? picrel will join the italian navy next week
>>62912268Both are in nato so nobody Also lol greece has 10 million population while turkey 80 million
>>62912458I guess the honest answer is that they won’t: if they could they would probably be pushing Greece much harder. Something something TB2
>>62912458They can't, I mean France has nukes. And their economy in general is too fragile, and very linked to the EU for exports.
>>62912268Reminder that the Turkroach creation myth is a literal furry porn plot
>>62912377France lost to Germany exactly because of this mindset, “our allies will save us” — they didn’t.
>>62912441>>62912458USA would help Turkey.
>>62912551/pol/ lives in a different reality. American weapons have killed 350000 Russian soldiers.
>>62912402Consider that Turkey's population is eight times larger and has double the birth rate compared to Greece. Additionally, Greece faces major problem; its population is aging, with a median age of 50. Nearly half of the country consists of pensioners, and many young Greeks emigrate and do not return. Any sane person living in Greece knows that they can't afford any type of war. They simply don't have the manpower.
>>62912268Frog here. We're building them new shiny frigates with inverted stem, so they can ram enemy ships like in the good old timesAlso we have a bilateral defense treaty with them
Greece is a strong ally of China, they will be finehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China%E2%80%93Greece_relations
>>62912626What happened to your Armenian allies, they got fucked pretty badly
I hope Turkey mogs the shit out of Greece’s gay not-serious military. I want to be proven right. I want everyone to finally understand that allies will NOT go to bat for you. They’ll be with you politically, but the MOMENT it comes to actual force it’s always nothing or next-to-nothing. I want Western world to WAKE the fuck UP.
>>62912268Turkey isn't interested in mainland Greece. If a war ever happens, they'll flatten greek islands which are a bit too close to main Turkey and annex those and declare them as buffer zone. And said islands are within range of turkish artillery.
>>62912684>I want everyone to finally understand that allies will NOT go to bat for you. They’ll be with you politically, but the MOMENT it comes to actual force it’s always nothing or next-to-nothing. I want Western world to WAKE the fuck UP.You are 100 years late. Turkey have already mogged Greece when their French and British allies providing all the political and military support during peak of their power. Entire Greek armed forces were annihilated in deep Anatolia.
>>62912626>so they can ram enemy ships like in the good old times>TURKISH SHIPS ARE STRONG AT THE FRONT, BUT THEY ARE WEAK AT IN THE MIDDLE!
>>62912626>>62912765funnily enough, previous French-built La Combattante III in Greek service was rammed by a Turkish owned ferry and sunk
>>62912643France became an ally with Armenia after they were fucked, as Armenia pivoted to France and the EU in general when they got abandoned by Russia.
>>62912798Ha, when did France become allies with Armenia, after their 44-days defeat or 24-hours defeat?
>>62912814October 2023, so after the 24-hour defeat. Armenia was left out to dry by the CSTO so they are looking for new allies.
>>62912303>their navy is abysmalThis isn't true at all, roach.
>>62912643Armenia's ally was Russia though
>>62912835Wrong. France was an ally of Armenia way before that. In 2020 French senate passed a resolution calling for recognition of independence of Nagorno-Karabakh. But their shit got pushed in the field.
>>62912876No, their alliance is much more recenthttps://www.forbes.com/sites/pauliddon/2024/06/20/caesar-howitzers-armenia-continues-buildup-of-french-and-indian-arms/Their major acquisitions of French weapons are all from 2023-2024. Just check out the list of equipment used in the 2020 war, it's all post-Soviet shit (and Israeli weapons for Azerbaijan).
>>62912894>>62912876>The 2020s have already proven a fateful decade for the South Caucus country. In 2020, Azerbaijan launched an offensive operation aimed at capturing the disputed Armenian-populated Nagorno-Karabakh enclave within its borders, afflicting a decisive military blow against the Armenian armed forces in the ensuing six-week war, leaving approximately 6,000 dead. In September 2023, Azerbaijan captured the entire enclave in a lightning 24-hour operation, causing its population of 120,000 to flee to Armenia.>Armenia bitterly concluded that its traditional backer, Russia, with which it has a defense pact, was unreliable or, even worse, outright duplicitous. Yerevan recently announced that it plans to leave the Russian-led Collective Security Treaty Organization, CSTO, military alliance. It has also gradually sought to lessen its heavy dependency on Russia for military hardware.
>>62912894>>62912897 I like the way how french surrender monkeys try to detach themselves from losers and trying not to admit they are a shit ally.
>>62912405Why would the European Union be interested in stopping offensive wars in Europe? It makes no sense.
>>62912913No argument.
>>62912918French senate resolution direct support to Armenia got crushed militarily in the ground and you did nothing.
>>62912944And Azerbaijani oil money being spent to promote freedom movements in French colonies in Pacific, Africa and South America now. Hilarous turn of events.
>>62912593>We didn't need them anyway xaxaxaxaxa!
>>62912268I don't know why but feels like Italy would help Greece out
>>62912417>le Maginot face
>>62912944The French resolution was to recognise Nagorno-Karabakh is not a . As anon said that came later. It seems more likely that you want to divert attention from the Russians completely abandoning their military alliance member.
>>62913061* is not a defense treaty*
>>62912405The EU isn't capable of waging an offensive war. They're struggling against Russia, and sure they wont be able to handle Turkey.
>>62913061The french excuses are the best. I love watching you monkeys squirm.
>>62912944>French senateHow to tell the world you don't know shit about how chambers work, without directly telling it
>>62912913gem
>>62912944France was not Armenia's ally in 2020 (nor in 2023, for that matter). If Armedia didn't get its shit pushed in they wouldn't be even today. Learn cause and effect, roach.
>>62913175The EU isn't at war with Russia.
>>62913369On paper, they aren't.
>>62913374And in practice, otherwise there would be F-35s flying over Moscow right now.
>>62913385Sure, and the greeks would recapture constantinople within 2 days
>>62913388Russia struggles against Ukraine with second-hand NATO equipment, yeah they wouldn't fare well against the combined EU.Turkey is another round of inflation away from becoming Syria.
>>62913395>combined EUActive Military Personnel of NATO Member CountriesUnited States: 1,388,000Turkey: 425,000France: 205,000Germany: 183,000Italy: 170,000United Kingdom: 147,000Spain: 125,000Poland: 123,000Greece: 107,000Romania: 70,000Netherlands: 35,000Portugal: 32,000Bulgaria: 30,000Belgium: 29,000Canada: 27,000Czech Republic: 27,000Norway: 23,000Slovakia: 17,000Lithuania: 15,000Hungary: 13,000Croatia: 15,000Denmark: 14,000Albania: 8,000Latvia: 7,000Estonia: 6,000Slovenia: 7,000Montenegro: 2,000North Macedonia: 8,000Luxembourg: 900Iceland: No standing army
>>62913404Now do GDP. That's what wins wars.
>>62913414Sure GDP will explain Vietcong victory over France, or Taliban victory over US.
>>62913414GDP means jackshit, what matters is how much hardware and bodies you have and how much shit you can produce. You know that.Cope.
>>62913367France is Armenia's biggest ally since the country declared independence in 91. Part of the osce minsk group, hosting a huge Armenian diaspora, that ally simply watched from a safe distance as Armenia got violated and humiliated in the battlefield.
>>62913420All wars in which they got tired of killing thirdies and retreated. While in actual wars - WWI and WWII - they decided the winner. Cope. >>62913421Yeah throwing bodies at the problem is working so well for Russia rn. Turkey should try to invade Greece or something and see how that turns out.
>>62913440>All wars in which they got tired of killing thirdies and retreated.and ceded capital to these thirdies. Absolute french victory lmao
>>62913439How many weapons and of what kind did France give Armenia before 2023?Nevermind that Armenia literally was in the CSTO, and still is afaik even if they now (justifiably) want to leave it. Wonder why.
>>62913440>Yeah throwing bodies at the problem is working so well for Russia rnIn their doctrine, it works. Ukraine is running out of men. Is the EU ready to lose half a million men?>Turkey should try to invade GreeceWhy? Over half of the greek proper is within range of turkish missiles and artillery. Those islands youre so proud of, are flattened within 24 hours in a hot war. Cope.
>>62913443>but but but there are blacks in Paris!!Still fewer thirdies in Paris than thirdies in Turkey lmao, that's 100% of the population, natives and immigrants alike.
>>62913456>Is the EU ready to lose half a million men?You think EU troops would charge in Buchankas at Russian trenches? Lol.How many cruise missiles and stealth fighters does Russia have? Last time I've checked they have fewer 5th gen and carriers than fucking Italy. >Those islands youre so proud of, are flattened within 24 hours in a hot war. Cope.They should start said hot war then :)
>>62913458Yup, another frenchie feeling too little african immigrants living in France so they decided to shake them up a little bit to avoid them getting too comfortable. By the way, i been to france twice, and i didn't see any french baby out there. All were either north african or black.
>>62913467I'm not even French lmao, it's just funny seeing thirdies gloating over other thirdies living in Europe when they themselves are that exact kind of people lmao. They just stayed at home instead of cleaning toilets and fixing roofs in Europe.
This is a fact: Turkey has made a smart investment! The deterrent effect of the S-400 has been revealed even before the war. The West is now worried that the Turks will change their axis. You will learn that Turkey is a Great Power!
>>62913181Still no argument
>E-EU is STRONG!>WERE STRONG!>*nervous greek boomer noises*
>>62913485>ACK!
>>62913485>please let us in!>no you stink>axaxaxa EU weak turkyiyiee stronk!!!!
>>62913414>GDP. That's what wins wars.Considering Russia's GDP is smaller than Italy's, how is it that Russia continues to gain territory in its conflict with NATO?
>>62913439The anecdote that summarizes the French-Armenian relations best is the French attempting to teach the Armenians how to make nice cheese during the Ottoman times so that their upcoming new little colony has something going for it. Turks took all of that over so Kars Gruyere is a thing today.
>>62913404But that's just active, not reserve. Estonia alone has 230k in the reserves that have military training. Your list also doesn't include Sweden and Finland, the latter of which could contribute a million more.
>>62913485>Turkroach interest rate: 50%You won't do shit
In regards to Armenia I’m going to be in the minority in /k/ on this topic but Russia did NOTHING wrong re the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict and Armenia. There’s NOTHING in the CTSO agreement that says anyone has to protect foreign land claims by any other member. Armenia is acting like this because it’s more politically palatable for their loss of NK be the fault of Russia rather the fault of their own miscalculations and terrible military
Western culture produces declining irrelevant countries, what can you do
>>62913580How many thousands of NATO soldiers died so far in their heroic struggle against Russia?
>>62913765I kinda agree but they literally had peacekeepers there, I would expect something more than "do nothing and let a traditional ally of yours get steamrolled". One could assume Armenia's army was so shitty because they expected Russia to defend them. A bit like Belarus really.
>EU STRONG!>We only have ~200k combat ready personnel combined but WE'RE STRONG!!>*Nervous 50 year old bulgarian noises*
>>62913834All of Europe combined can't supply Ukraine with enough stuff for their not even mobilized slap fightThis is Americas fault....
>>62913853But but something something GDP and F35?!
>>62913834>Bulgaria's average monthly salary: BGN 2,300/ €1,175 (poorest country in the EU btw)>Turkey's average monthly salary: TRY 15,000/€416Dios mio, this is why you get stories like this:https://balkaninsight.com/2020/11/23/bargain-hunting-bulgarians-fuel-boom-in-turkish-thrace/
>>62913861And the richest country in the EU can't supply its army with rifles. Your point? If throwing enough money at something would've worked then Ukrainian army would be sieging Moscow right now. Keep coping.
>>62913853>Ukraine alone with some half-assed Western support (20 yo tanks and planes, a few missiles and artillery shells, trucks and helmets) can hold off the mighty PUCCIAN BEAR and even conquer some of its territory Is this the power of muh manpower and muh local production?
>>62913867If the West were actually throwing money at Ukraine they'd be getting the top of the line stuff, not shit NATO is replacing with newer systems and an handful of cruise missiles lol. A reminder that Ukraine operates like fewer than 40 Himars. The US alone has what, 400?
>>62913867>If throwing enough money at something would've workedSupport for Ukraine is a rounding error in terms of money for even the smallest European countries.
>>62913869>>62913874>Nearly 200 billion $ of aid>"This wasn't our final form!"
>>62913867>can't supply its army with riflesIs this because of the krauts using broomsticks? Oh they CAN equip their entire country if they want to, the fact that they DON'T is because they felt like it wasn't needed. How many western european nations are currently at war? How many are in a war economy? I'll tell you, none. Europe keeps a skeleton army cause they don't need it, but the second they're threatened they can churn put so much shit it's not even funny. You know who's supplying half the civilized world with hundreds of state of the art subs right now? That's right, krauts.
>>62913882>he thinks $200bn in old equipment is a lot of money for EU + US
No one. Poke the Roach and you face the consequences.
>>62913882Literal pocket change when wars cost trillions each year. Btw, how much of that actually goes in military hardware? I bet most goes to prop up the ukrainian economy and set up logistical chains.
>>62913897If you poke the roach it will squirm and jitter and frantically run aimlessly until it crawls on your hand (ew). Even stomping it is revolting, they're all gooey and yellow inside. Truly detestable.
>>62913882From a quick calculation that's less than 0,5% of the US and EU's GDP.
>>62913882How much do you think has russia smoked in these three years? You should be more worried about what YOU have, not what WE have. Cause we're rich, and you live in squalor
>>62913420The EU will invade Turkey, defeat its military and conquer it in a matter of months, the Turkish government will flee and spend 20 years hiding in Azerbaijan, occassionally sending out uncoordinated and often suicide attacks that result in less EU deaths than accidents, while the EU brings unprecedented human rights and economic growth for 20 years until they leave, after which the Turkish government finally comes back claiming they singlehandedly destroyed the entire might of the West and also the West needs to send them immediate food and economic aid while announcing they sold off their natural resource rights to China?
>>62913834Where are you getting those numbers? Estonia alone could supply 200k armed personnel and that's the smallest NATO country after Iceland and Montenegro
>>62913882>Nearly 200 billion $ of aidYes, that's about correct in terms of purchase price. But don't you think it's a bit disingenuous to suggest that the value of decades old platforms that aren't even in service anymore retained their purchase price without any devaluation?
>who's gonna defend greeceI will.
>>62912268I don't think NATO member attacking another NATO member would fly with other NATO members.
>>62914244NATO is pretty much done with Trump winning and everyone knows it
>>62913439being ally and having a large diaspora in a country are two different things dumbass. France never was a fully involved "ally" with mutual defense treaties or whatever, unlike Russia.
>>62912268the Greeks would destroy the Turks easily just like when a Mirage 2000 from the Hellenic Air Force shot down two Turkish F-16 over the Aegean sea as I seen in another thread yesterday
>>62914258So you are retarded?
>>62913374In practice, they also aren't
>>62913861Not only that, Estonia bought a bunch of Turkish AFV at dirt cheap prices.https://www.defensenews.com/global/europe/2023/10/19/estonia-shops-turkish-armored-vehicles-for-211-million/>The Estonian Centre for Defence Investments has awarded contracts to Turkish manufacturers Otokar and Nurol Makina to purchase roughly 230 armored vehicles for a total of about €200 million (U.S. $211 million), the agency announced.
>>62912814the fact that Armenia has not been invaded entirely despite being surrounded by Erdog Turkey and Azerbaijan speaks volume about the influence of Russia and France in the region and the weakness of muzzies kek
>>62912913>french surrender monkeys he uses our memes from the Iraq War era to make his point despite being a seething Turk still coping about his shitty Ottoman Empire destroyed in part by the French loool stay mad Mehmet
>>62913443woaaaa! he found a picture of Rue Poulet! the famous African market in Paris! it's like going to the poorest street in the Bronx and saying there is no whites in New-York KEK
>>62913467>By the way, i been to france twice, and i didn't see any french baby out there. All were either north african or black.you're too poor to travel to France Ahmet, don't lie
>>62914295zigger tier cope.>>62914311Frenchies being surrender monkeys is not a Iraq war meme though. France got its ass kicked thoroughly in 20th century.>>62914337cope harder faggot, meanwhile Europeans are simply getting replaced by Africans. France is being the worst. It's common knowledge
>>62914244it's an hypothetical situation in which erdogan goes full tard and his desire to kill greeks overcomes his well founded fears of getting gangraped by both nato and the csto. of course that would trigger article 5 and turkeye would be simultaneously thrown out of the alliance with the rest declaring war on them. but it's not that simple. see turkiie is arguably the most important asset in nato, strategically wise. no other country can simultaneously cover the middle east, bosphorus, and threaten russia all at the same time. turkyia is perfect to excert power and influence, and keep the enemies of the pax americana on their toes. a shame about the martinet currently at power.
>>62914284No, just a Turk
>>62912268>Meanwhile Turkey:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGjKLOcXkPg
>>62914436Works both ways. The rest of NATO and the EU see Turkey as too important to allow Erdrogan to remain in charge if he's going to be hostile.
>>62914433>Frenchies being surrender monkeys is not a Iraq war meme though. it literally is dumbass, it's a joke that came up in an episode of the Simpsons and even has its own wikipedia statement: "In the run up to and during the Iraq War, Goldberg reprised it to criticize European nations and France in particular for not joining the Coalition of the Willing, the United States-led invasion and occupation of Iraq." that's what you get when you dare to stand up against the almighty Uncle Sam like France did. kudos to them though for not falling for Bush's circle of warmonger's bullshit, maybe we should have listen to them actually >France got its ass kicked thoroughly in 20th century. France losing a battle in 1939 doesn't mean much when you look at their millennial history of warfare I mean you are Turk, look at yourself before trying to slander others because you're jack shit not only compared to France, but to any Western nation.
>>62914595meanwhile Palestinians are getting slaughtered daily by your arch-enemy Israel and you won't do shit. nice soft landing though, probably has been done over 100 times on US carriers but we didn't see it as a particular achievement, looks pretty trivial to do.
>>62914595is that a carrier for ants?
>>62914433>cope harder faggot, meanwhile Europeans are simply getting replaced by Africans. France is being the worst. It's common knowledge replaced? nope. used as cheap labor? yes! you should know better Mehmet, since that's literally what roaches like you are used for in Germany: cleaning toilets and picking up the trash loool
>>62914595Is that a practice target for the meteor?
>>62913467>when I go on holidays I keep tab of each infant I encounterAnon, I know you tried that as a flex, but......
>>62913882>He thinks 200 billion is a large amount of money for the western military industrial complex>He thinks we went out and bought 200 billion dollars of fresh equipment instead of sending a bunch of stuff we had already bought and paid for years ago and had lying around on the shelf.
>>62914436>no other country can simultaneously cover the middle east, bosphorus, and threaten russia all at the same time. turkyia is perfect to excert power and influence, and keep the enemies of the pax americana on their toes. a shame about the martinet currently at power.That just gives everyone in NATO a reason to remove said martinet as soon as he becomes more trouble than he's worth. Like say going full retard and invading one of his allies.
>>62915249No, for roaches lol.
>who's gonna defend greece if turkey gets too uppity? These megali-idea irredentists finally become self-aware; that weak Greece needs direct foreign intervention for survival. The war in Armenia was an eye opener, that new Turkish weapons and doctrine removed a well dug-in enemy from premises within days. And done that in a mountainous geography favoring defenders. It was such a slap in the face that brought some fascists back to reality. That's such a lovely sight :)
>>62912405And their primary strategic threat has been gelded and become a laughing stock for the whole worldIt's literally, unironically the smartest thing the EU has ever done
>>62917238They fly now?
>>62918296(They've been flying since the sino-japanese war...)
>>62913421>how much hardware and bodies you haveThat's somewhat correlated with GDP>how much shit you can produceThat's highly correlated with GDP
>>62917262>megali-idea irredentists
>>6291226The EU has around 65 submarines that means Turkey can’t do shit
>>62914218Based Philhellene
>>62919388>That's highly correlated with GDPWhy can't the mighty EU outproduce russia then?
>>62919661Because Russia is in a war economy, and still has to beg North Korea and Iran for ammo. The entire country is focused on winning this war at all costs, even if that means poor Babushkas freeze in the winter and potholes are not fixed.The EU is in a business-as-usual economy, with some help destined for Ukraine. Factories are ramping up production and already available stuff is getting delivered, but this is not an existential war for the EU.
>>62912441I'd do my part cleaning up turkish fifth columns, even if there aren't any
>>62919661It's not a question of capability, it's a question of will. EU alone outstrips Russia's IC to such a degree that the ziggers would be kicked out of Ukraine in a week if they ramped up their production. The problem is that they don't want to, despite how glorious it would be.
I would never ever invade the heckin' Greacerino!But just have some anti-ship missiles, planes, and have surveillance. Ez pz. Greece is easymode to defend.Turkey is already broke. It's already in the state Russia is. At least Russia started the war in the green with fuckton of oil money to buy things.>>62913404>muh gorillion strong armyComplete bullshit inflated by mandatory military service BTW. It's 90% potato peelers and boot shiners. Putting those numbers in use would give Russia tier results.>>62913369But Russia is at war with EU.
