>Public comments by Admiral Sergei Avakyants, former head of Russia’s Pacific Fleet, suggest institutional support for the decision to retire the carrier. He described classic aircraft carriers as expensive and inefficient in modern conflict scenarios, arguing that unmanned systems and robotic platforms are the future. In 2024, the ship’s crew was reassigned to the war in Ukraine, forming a ground unit operating in the Pokrovsk sector.https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/russia-soon-to-be-only-global-power-without-aircraft-carrier/
>>64797072LOL, LMAO even.
>>64797072Convieniant to come to that decision only when your last aircraft carrier that has been rusting for years due to your inability to care for it finally bites the dust.
>>64797072Russia doesn't even have a navy anymore, the fuck they know about it?
>>64797072>Ivan... you sent your only aircraft carrier crew to the 21st century equivalent of Verdun?
>>64797072>too broke to keep the blatant money laundering scheme going>Cope by publicly claiming that carriers are obsolete despite the US showing that they're still very much relevant What's next? Manned surface vessels are obsolete?
>>64797072>In 2024, the ship’s crew was reassigned to the war in Ukraine, forming a ground unit operating in the Pokrovsk sector.Grim, i wonder how many are still alive
>>64797072>Russian Navy decrees that aircraft carriers are obsoleteRussian Navy carrier(s) are obsolete
>>64797072>In 2024, the ship’s crew was reassigned to the war in Ukraine, forming a ground unit operating in the Pokrovsk sector.kek, I remember that.
>>64797163>>64797182didn't they also send sub crews to the frontlines?
>>64797072to be fair, having only one aircraft carrier is kind of stupid. And having only one that is as limited and unreliable as the Russian carrier was double stupid
>>64797211Allegedly but I don't remember any evidence being put out to support the claim
>>64797072Hypersonic missiles and fleets of 10 dollar temu drones have rendered aircraft carries obsolete in general.
>>64797182Probably a better fate than having to work inside that monstrosity desu
Anyone got those pictures from deep in the bowls of the Kuznetsov where it's all rusted to shit and it looks like some sort of orcish cave from a horror movie?
>>64797072Russia's always been a land empire with no overseas posessions (possible exception to Cuba), a carrier is of no use to them. Even when the A.Kuznetsov was deployed to Syria to support Assad, there was no need for it, they could have easily based the strike aircraft onshore. The whole thing was a glorified live fire training exercise.Submarines (when they're not suffering reactor problems from being treated like a redneck junkie's pickup) are the Russian Navy's strong point, the carriers were nothing more than a vain status symbol. Even the Sovs couldn't justify devoting an entire ship to a flight deck at first.
>>64797435So why hasn't it happened yet?
>>64797431
>>64797553Ah, so Russia must be a peerless land power... right?
>>64797072Why are Russians so incompetent? Chinese and Pajeets can get their carriers to operate normally with no visible smoke trails.
>>64797581Anyone got that .webm contrasting the sister carrier China bought off Ukraine with Kuntznetsov?
>>64797431>>64797435China must be retarded then to even bother building them.
>>64797581The literally post-apocalyptic loss of skilled labour and expertise post-90s probably has a lot to do with it. Anyone with a brain packed up and moved to the west, hell, Russian nuclear scientists went to work in the DPRK just to get paid.The only people left in the Russian military-industrial complexe are those too stupid to get hired overseas.Ukraine in particular suffered a worse than WW2 level population collapse, 21% gone since the 90s.
>>64797072Russia will not be the only global power without an aircraft carrier, by virtue of not being a global power or even a regional power. The world's only global power has twenty carriers.
>>64797632Lazerpig, faggot that he is, had a decent bit explaining brain drain's effect on Russia.
>>64797072>we didn't need it anyway
it's been a while
>>64797435>>64797431Lol. Lmao even.
Damn. Imagine going from serving in a ship to get droned in fucking Pokrovsk
>>64797578>Vatniggers can't even bring for the SOVL
>>64797924Imagine getting mogged by some tuareg militia, kek.
>>64797553>always been a land empireNot for lack of trying...and failing.
>>64797072>Fox decrees that grapes are sour, fake and gay
>>64797072>He described classic aircraft carriers as expensive and inefficient in modern conflict scenarios, arguing that unmanned systems and robotic platforms are the future.Uhhhh okay, whatever you say big guy>In 2024, the ship’s crew was reassigned to the war in UkrainePfftOh noHaHahahahahahahHahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
>>64797934Why didn't venezuela just sink the ships?
What kind of grapes are common in Russia? They must be quite sour.
>>64797529Which one?
>>64797529>>64797593
>>64797934What’s more concerning is Chinese ship building capability, I don’t care about muh hypersanics. Factually US ship capacity is depleted compared to the past. The Chinks could replenish their navy with a bunch of “good enough” ships in 6 months while the US takes years and any US ship being sunk would be an expensive blow and spammed all across this board.
>>64798108>while the US takes yearsUS shipbuilding is kneecapped by lawWe did this to ourselves and if we lose a future conflict on the high seas we have no one else to blamehttps://www.cato.org/publications/policy-analysis/jones-act-burden-america-can-no-longer-bear>The irrelevance of the Jones Act to U.S. national security can also be gleaned from the growing divergence between the characteristics of its fleet and the needs of the armed forces. The military, according to the Congressional Research Service, prefers ships with speed and versatility that can “unload diverse cargos in shallow harbors lacking shore-side cranes.”53 Jones Act shippers, in contrast, prefer vessels that operate at slower, more fuel-efficient speeds, are specialized for a particular type of cargo, and are designed to operate in modern port facilities. Meanwhile, increasing specialization within the commercial shipping sector has reduced the likelihood that military requirements can be met by Jones Act ships.
>>64798102The fact that the Chinese took an abandoned orc hulk and turned it into a functioning carrier while the Russians couldn't even maintain the one they built will never not be funny to me.
>>64798161>they built
>>64798187Fair point
>>64798187ukrainians, unlike /pol/estinians, are worthy people who can contribute to faustian civilization. This is the line of diferentiation between when and when not one people deserved support from the collective west.
>>64798151That’s exactly the issue. It’s not that the Chinese are good as much as we fucked ourselves over and don’t correct anything
>>64798187>Stole the carrier despite not having a single drydock/port capable of supporting the vesselI think it took over a decade for them to finally have a proper drydock for the ship.
>>64797072>Those grapes were probably going to be sour anyway!
>>64798539>Our grapes are the best grapes!>Our grapes may not be the best, but they'll punch far above their weight!>Our grapes are cheaper to operate, so we can afford more!>Our enemies are lying about how good their grapes are!Grapes are mostly sour, anyways! <------- You are here>Grapes aren't real!
>>64797072>russian navy decrees
>>64798108Always amusing how the chinks will just "replenish their fleets" in these scenarios because the US is apparently just going to let them do it.In fact, pretty much every single chink piece of propaganda is utterly dependent upon the US literally doing nothing while their top secret 9000 iq plot unfolds flawlessly.
>>64797435Why didn't Venezuela do that, then?
>>64798049>>64798732Inside job
>>64798672>>64798108China is wholely dependent on American met coal to make steel and no one has ever suggested how they'd ever get around that
>>64797072>expensiveYes>Inefficient Depends on what you're doing with it. Then again, the entire russian military is pretty damn inefficient.
>>64797072>He described classic aircraft carriers as expensive and inefficient in modern conflict scenariosHead on assualts using donkeys and four-wheelers are the future of warfare though.
>>64798845Not good quality met. You can't just use any old random coal for steel making. It has to have certain properties and almost all of it is mined in America, Canada, and Australia.
>>64798845Africa is a lost cause for any venture. The Soviet Onion bankrupted itself by trying to prop up African shitholes in their neocolonialist gambit, so either communism causes terminal retardation or the average wumao's hubris knows no bounds. Both are extremely likely.
>>64797072Charitable of Bongs to still refer to Puccia as a global power.
>>64798845
>Ukies have rendered russian aircraft carriers obsoletefixed
>>64799251To be fair to the Russians, they were doing that just fine themselves even before the Donbass war
>>64798094Wang gets a stool and Dimtri gets a pickle can to sit
>fox decrees grapes are sour
>>64799381>fags decree the cum is sour
>>64798845Again, in the event of a war would the US just let the coal get shipped to China?
>>64797435retarded midwit post
>>64798845>we will just be able to ship that coal through all the numerous chokepoints controlled by the US, because again, in my fantasy worldview the US doesn't react to things china does.this coal would never reach china, and even the ships that china could still piece together would get bombed inside their dry docks before completion.seriously the chinkshill tendency to just think china will do thing and nobody else will do thing is insane.
>>64799567Please understand, their entire future plan is based upon them drinking their own kool aid that the US is mere days away from collapse, this time for real, if they only just keep posting about how over it is for the US.
>>64797553hey nowthe Russian offensive surface fleet was literally the most ignored branch and funded by whatever remained after everything else had been paid for. under those circumstances, the Kiev class was a pretty good stepping stone. it's the closest we've ever come to a battle-carrier and any European navy would have sold their grandmothers to be able to afford a couple, unlike the much smaller aviation cruisers they made do with
>>64797934The fact that China has allegedly fielded multiple hypersonic anti-ship missile designs and still continues to build carriers is proof that nobody other than coping russhitians thinks carriers are obsolete.
>>64799645chinks know carriers aren't obsolete, which is why they are building them, but they like to spew that narrative online because they know the US has way more of them, they're way better, and they can't do anything about that.
>>64798962I swear to god I would have fucking machine gunned those niggers the second they couldn't get trucks of gravel moving. I mean WHAT THE FUCK. GRAVEL. GATE. CLOSE. DRIVE. DUMP.OJIMBE MATEMBA WHAT THE FUCK!
>>64797072So when do they release what is in the bowels of the ship?
>>64798108You can run to new threads and hope someone will ignore retarded takes like this but it won’t work. Chinks get bombed and their bottlenecks (like warship-capable ship building) get ganked in a hot war and there’s nothing they can do about it.
>>64797072>the ship’s crew was reassigned to the war in Ukraine, forming a ground unit operating in the Pokrovsk sector.Ouch
>>64797072Who cares about what the Russian Navy thinks?
>>64797934I didn't see you make a point to rebut
>>64798857You see, before Russia sent its men to their deaths for little to no effect but it cost a lot of money. Today. Russia sent its men to their deaths for little to no effect more cost effectively. This means they will win. I am very smart.
>>64797072>forming a ground unit operating in the Pokrovsk sector.Still better survival odds that those unfortunate souls sent to face the horrors lurking inside the depths of the ships cursed citadel.
>>64798941The problem with the USSR propping up Africa is that both of those were mostly raw goods exporters who felt the sting when commodities tanked. As much as I hate to hand it to the chinks theyve got the right ideaCheap African Raw Materials -> Fodder for Chinese Factories -> Cheap Chinese goods you can sell back to africans
>>64797211>sub crewsNo, but they did send the dudes responsible for the physical security of their nukes.
>>64799638Yeah but arent battle carriers a meme in a "cripplingly underspecialized" kind of way? I.e. if you combine a missile cruiser with a carrier you get a vessel that's not especially good at being either- and werent they mostly built to get around the Montrose convention anyway?
>>64799638No, they wouldn't have or they would just have made some. It doesn't fit NATO doctrine at all.
>>64797145>doesn't even have a navy anymoreInthink thier whaling fleet is still intact. COME ON GREENPEACE!!!
>>64800681>Cheap Chinese goods you can sell back to africansI saw a piece in the WSJ where a policy expert was bitching that South Africa was buying loads of cheap solar panels from China instead of making them locally. My initial reaction was "Wtf? You expect SA to make their own solar panels?"
>>64797553I always like the appearance of Russian ships, all other considerations set aside, I love all their insane greebly bits, they look like a bodged together ship of war.
>>64800763Loomks like an SD ship out of Advance Wars
To be honest, while that's just the Russian coping, I think we did reach a point where aircraft carrier are no longer that important.At least not if you were fighting an enemy far superior to you.Sure, it let you project force in third-tier countries who can't even reach your carrier, but if you are facing any with proper air defenses it will only be a matter of missiles-bus deploying/intercepting missiles waves. China is developing missiles specifically to destroy carriers & others.That said, Russian submarines will likely soon end up "obsolete" too, at least against major countries capable of tracking them from orbit with new form of sensors.
>>64800763The reason they look this way is because the Russian navy is still overwhelmingly designs from the 1980s. Even a significant chunk of their submarine fleet is like this, the majority is once you discount project 636.3 (improved kilo).Pretty much all new Russian vessels are small and wouldn't be considered major combatants by a Western navy. The reason the Russian navy seems so big compared to European ones is the much larger submarine force and the fact they just never fucking got rid of anything. Which also probably means they're either:A. Bleeding money out the arse maintaining themB. Not maintaining themGiven the current state of Russia I think the answer is fairly obvious.
>>64797072Aside from the fact that it's non-nuclear how can an aircraft carrier be obsolete? It's just a platform that carries aircraft
>>64800830>At least not if you were fighting an enemy far superior to you.The overlap of "nations who can afford an aircraft carrier" and "nations who are likely to fight a superior enemy" is pretty small. Russia might be the only one, except of course they clearly couldn't afford the carrier anyway.>but if you are facing any with proper air defenses it will only be a matter of missiles-bus deploying/intercepting missiles wavesThis has no relevance to carriers but every relevance to how good the aircraft you put on them are. >China is developing missiles specifically to destroy carriers & others.Every nation with a serious navy has had "missiles specifically to destroy carriers & others" for decades. This is like saying the torpedo made the battleship obsolete.>Russian submarines will likely soon end up "obsolete" too, at least against major countries capable of tracking them from orbit with new form of sensors.I think it's fairly well known that Russian submarines are noisy as fuck as it is. It doesn't make them obsolete. Battlefield radar made it increasingly easy to track artillery pieces decades ago, yet still artillery isn't obsolete. People really need to stop throwing the word "obsolete" around the second every new weapon to counter something is developed.
>>64799611It's a few generations instead of mere days. Though, to be fair, China is also looking at demographic collapse in the future.
>>64797431I am sure that worked quite well for Venezuela and Iran.
>>64797553>we didn't need it anyway.
>>64800923>I think it's fairly well known that Russian submarines are noisy as fuck as it is. It doesn't make them obsolete. Battlefield radar made it increasingly easy to track artillery pieces decades ago, yet still artillery isn't obsolete. People really need to stop throwing the word "obsolete" around the second every new weapon to counter something is developed.This logic only applies to relatively low-cost equipment like tanks or cannons where you can afford to be in the red from a bang-for-buck perspective, but the loss of a submarine or an aircraft carrier worth several hundred million or even billion is a major event for any country
>>64798094>>64798161Not to downplay Russia being terrible, but the Chinese pics are from a planned and staged photo session as part of a press tour/propaganda piece.
>Meanwhile in Russia
>>64800706yes and noyes in that carriers ALWAYS benefit from being bigger and more specialisedno in that if you have a limited budget and so you never expect to be operating more combat aircraft, it works finethe only reason the US Navy never built similar ships is that the USN has never been in the kind of budget-strapped situation where they're not going to do strike missions, only ASW and CAP.>>64800710NATO built several warships based on similar operating concepts. I posted one of those, and mentioned another. Here's a third.
>>64800681It works as long as they avoid war with the US. The more they rely on African colonies the bigger the choke point for the USN to stick their big gay knees on.
>>64800923>>64800952The correct term people should be using is "deprecated." The safety and effectiveness aircraft carriers are deprecated against foes that approach parity or possess weapons and tactics specific against carriers.
>>64800952What about the loss from not having them? for example being unable to protect shipping lanes or deny ocean space to enemy carrier groups? or being unable to conduct seabed warfare?They're not obsolete because they have specific roles which they are still required for.There is also the matter of countermeasures, aircraft weren't made obsolete by the invention of the surface to air missiles for fairly apparent reasons.>>64801086I broadly agree but I do think it's worth pointing out that ships get refitted throughout their life constantly, pretty much every time they go into dock infact. Normally to rectify defects (e.g insufficient plant from build) but it can also add capability.If an opposition nation develops specific tactics/weapons then naturally you develop specific counters, refits and so on. It's just the continuous game of cat and mouse. So deprecated in short term but even in the mid-term if it can be readily solved then it will be.
>>64800918The last airplane they modified to be carrier compatible is the Su-30, a 40 years old design that according to SEA exercises isn't good as superiority aircraft, so in a sense they right, they can't make Su-57 or whatever mig/su paper project they intended to use as replacement, without good airplanes a carrier isn't useful.You just have to see how frogs insisted with their Rafale-M to get extra funds because it's expensive.
>>64801086>The correct term people should be using is "deprecated." The safety and effectiveness aircraft carriers are deprecated [...]I agree with that.>>64800923>The overlap of "nations who can afford an aircraft carrier" and "nations who are likely to fight a superior enemy" is pretty small.With the current POTUS, that number is growing. China is frightening everyone because they have the production capacity & economy to overwhelm us, no matter the poor quality of said equipment. (assuming of course the POTUS don't "make a deal" selling out democracy in exchange for China supporting his personality cult or something, but that's /pol/ rambling)>This has no relevance to carriers but every relevance to how good the aircraft you put on them are.It is completely relevant because aircraft no longer rules supreme against ship and air-defense. You'd need a swarm of missiles beyond what even a few carriers can do.Carriers give you projection capability and perform fine attack on very minor countries, maybe you'll still need manned aircraft to finely strike less defended targets, but if we get into a high intensity war (against an enemy that supposedly don't have nukes) it will be a matter of production.>Every nation with a serious navy has had "missiles specifically to destroy carriers & others" for decades. This is like saying the torpedo made the battleship obsolete.Weird choice of argument since battleship were made obsolete precisely because of missiles.Modern torpedoes are more dangerous than they ever were and the only reason submarines may not rules is if detection systems keep improving.>It doesn't make them obsoleteI said that because submarine will now require support to operate, but I do think they'll last longer.>People really need to stop throwing the word "obsolete" around the second every new weapon to counter something is developed.I said the above while agreeing with that.
Reminder that the nuclear battlecruiser Admiral Nakhimov has been undergoing refits and upgrades continuously since it entered drydock on August 14th, 1999Imagine how powerful it is by now. It probably has force fields and antigravity.
>>64801299>it entered drydock on August 14th, 1999There's a dry dock large enough for it in Russia?
>>64797553Those carriers were supposed to get around Montreaux Treaty restrictions.
>>64801307Yeah they took a couple thousand prisoners and had them heave it up onto a beach like something out of a 21st century Les Mis
>>64801266>With the current POTUS, that number is growingAs a Europoor with every reason to not say this; Even if you stuck a chimpanzee in the white house there are no "superior enemies" to the USA. Peer at best and even that is arguably generous (Also remember the whole "this assumes the USA would do nothing to destroy that economy/production" conversation from earlier)>It is completely relevant because aircraft no longer rules supreme against ship and air-defenseAircraft enable you to fire missiles without ever having to get within range of enemy missiles. They effectively extend your missile range. Also iirc most AA missiles are far shorter range than cruise missiles fired from aircraft.>Weird choice of argument since battleship were made obsolete precisely because of missiles.Not really, missiles made gun armed and armoured ships obsolete generally, which is why designs adapted to be missile armed and have effectively zero armour, favouring signature reduction and active/passive countermeasures. They didn't make warships as a whole obsolete because like I said here >>64801226 adaptations are made constantly.>Modern torpedoes are more dangerous than they ever were and the only reason submarines may not rules is if detection systems keep improving.The platforms that fire them are slow, torpedoes still suffer from limited range vs missiles (mk48 travels 31 miles at best, harpoon can travel 67 miles from ship at 120 from aircraft, wikipedia figures ofc but forgive the lack of academic citations for a mongolian basket weaving forum).To get within range of a carrier a submarine has to pass through hundreds of miles of ASW aircraft and escorts all of which can happily engage it whilst it can do very little back.The range figures on Harpoon also demonstrate the point about carrier range.The tl;dr here is that for every improvement to a weapon a mitigation measure can and has been devised to regain the degraded capability long term.
>>64797431Im pretty sure the last country to sink an American carrier was Japan. Didn’t work out well
>>64801266Hey it’s the chink production guy. This shit is coming to a head before they ‘outpace’ the world. The US is a pretend democracy run by mega corporations and a significant portion of those are fully integrated into the US MiC. If you believe these bloodthirsty ghouls will allow a state-controlled economic power like China to actually surpass them without a fight is naive as it is implausible. It’s very silly to keep trying to paint the US as some lame duck waning power when it’s entire history is a objectively immoral cutthroat bastard bent on exploiting everything possible, both foreign and domestic.
>>64801400Vietnam almost got one on a technicality. ALMOST.
>>64801387Good post anon and in even more simpler terms: having a carrier let’s you reach out and do SEAD/DEAD/Air Supremacy/Strikes/ASW/ASuW over an impressive AO and now the US can not only do that with Lockshart stealth aircraft (so actual, real stealth) but they can do it from several different carriers at one time. I get why Russia has no use for them and why the chinks will desperately try.
>>64801299it had 1st sea trials last August so it was a 26-year refit>64801402>hurr durr evil MiC megacorporations durrretard
>>64801068Oh for sureAnd I think I also read somewhere that plenty of African states are so poor and backwards that even consumer chinkshit costs more than what 95% of the population can afford, leaving the nu-colonial power with warehoused goods with nowhere to go.
>Russian navyAnyone with any knowledge of history laughs when those two words are uttered.
>>64800830There are more uses to to aircraft carriers besides launching fighters straight into the enemy's air defense envelope (though obviously China's air defense envelope is utterly impenetrable and both literally and metaphysically perfect and they have infinite interceptors and quantum super radar that can see through stealth and the veil of time itself)
>>64800904>they're either:>A. Bleeding money out the arse maintaining them>B. Not maintaining themxaxa stupid westoid. it is both!
>>64801572>I also read somewhere that plenty of African states are so poor and backwards that even consumer chinkshit costs more than what 95% of the population can affordNot true, Uganda is pretty fucking poor even for Africa but could still afford most Chinese products. Not talking high tech stuff but basics like plastic baskets, cooking utensils, clothing etc. If memory serves "low" daily income there is like $5 per day. Google says $220 for average but $5 per day is what I was told by some actual Ugandans.
>>64801400At the same time when was the last time the United States went to war on anything other than a Third World country?
>>64797072It is. They'd need a 5th (really 6th considering who they continually finger wag to) gen fighter capable of being carrier launched for it to be relevant. Even then it'd be a waste since it isn't nuke powers and this can't carry many fighters, their fuel, and munitions to support any sort of operational tempo. It really is just something to bully nations with and Russia has enough partners in every hotspot they'd realistically wage a war in. The FUCK would Russia need a carrier for? Dramatically better use of funds in getting nuclear ice breakers and warships going for the arctic route. Supported by land based aircraft. Exactly what Russia is doing finally.
>>64800830>Did you know China is developing A-S-H-M-S?
>>64801669The list of non-third-world-countries is pretty short tbf
>>64801068If you do that they will block their exports to the US and given your trade deficit, you will face a major economic crisis probably worse than that of 1929, this is the main reason why you are not as much in a cold war with China as you were with the USSR
>>64801051That's an ASW ship with a half dozen Exocets for self-defense. It's nothing like the Russian carriers.
>>64801692>China of course will not suffer any economic effects for the same reason its carriers are unsinkable and its factories can't be hit by missiles and and andVery implessive.
>>64801226>They're not obsolete because they have specific roles which they are still required for.And they can only perform those roles until they're sunk which given their age, condition, and capabilities won't be long at all
>>64801266>China is frightening everyoneyeah ok lil guywe're all very scaredcan you please be quiet now?
>>64801692This is so fucking retarded I don’t believe you seriously posted that. It’s so tiresome how chinkshills practice cognitive dissonance that rivals vatniggers. China and US go to war, and it’s the US that suffers from trade shut downs? China immediately loses the precious coal and food importation they NEED to function. These are objective facts. They are both food and energy negative and don’t even begin to try and explain they’ll magically reorient a shitty at industry to distribute domestically while infrastructure is bombed and leadership decapitated. You’re either a child or willfully ignoring the reality of China’s incredibly vulnerable position in the event of a hot conventional war.
>>64801431You’re the subhuman concern trolling that the US will just drift away and let chinks even approach them on the global level. Same retard with the same dog shit fantasies.
>>64797072Correct. Multiple much smaller Drone carriers/recharging stations will be much more valuable
>>64801400As >>64801404 said, the Viet Cong sort of did. It was an old WW2 escort carrier that had been transferred to the Military Sea Transportation Service so it wasn't a warship and had an entirely civilian crew but they DID sink it... in about 50 feet of water which meant the deck was still fully exposed... and it only stayed sunk for 17 days.. and it was repaired and back in service that same year BUUUUUUUUUT it was sunk.
>>64801231The official replacement for the Su-33 would have been the Mig-29K lmao
>>64801602Funny how the Vikings and Peter the Great tried to put these varniggers onto boats but they just didn't want to do that
>>64797676I remember
>>64801912Russia has to smuggle transistors for missiles so allow me to fucking doubt what you have to say
>>64801912Implessive
>>64801912>the return to reality is going to be funny to seehopefully you don't lose another war to sparrows before then
>>64797581It's not really their carrier. It was actually built in Ukraine around the time that the USSR collapsed, and around a third of the crew were Russians so they did as Russians do and basically stole it. They sailed it over to Russia and the Russian navy was more than happy to take it but they never built any of the infrastructure to actually use or maintain it, so they've spent the last thirty years parading it around while it slowly rots away because no one in Russia knows how to fix it.
>>64801912Russia locks butter in anti-theft plastic boxes in supermarkets and their agriculture is, let's put it mildly, in a bit of a pickle these days. Let's also not mention how their coal mining enterprises are slowly and surely going bankrupt.
>>64802018>It was actually built in UkraineLooking at Mykolaiv on Google Earth these days... man... time has not been kind to that city.
>>64798861>Not good quality met. You can't just use any old random coal for steel making. It has to have certain properties and almost all of it is mined in America, Canada, and Australia.You can purify coal by melting it so it is a non issue. No natural coal compares to refined coal because even high grade natural coal has impurities from wind blown dust from when the coal seam was laid down. It is these impurities that are the source of the pollution from coal power plants.
>>64801912>Americans have the same kind of arrogance as the Japanese in 44 and the same flawsHoly shit, my BRICS delusionometer just burnt out.
>>64801912>it is you, the world's preeminent economic, technological and military power that is arrogant, not us, the country that TWICE within living memory has committed mass cannibalism to survive our own entirely self-inflicted incompetency.
>>64801912This is right up there with Russia comparing Bakhmut to Stalingrad in the "didn't think this metaphor through" annals..
>>64801692>AHH SAVE ME GLOBAL SOUTH!I hope the sensitive feelings of the chinese people are braced to deal with the script they've written for how this war plays out getting shredded in minute 1 of the conflict.
>>64802055It's true that the US wasn't a shithole fighting against savages 50 years before WWII,That's what I'm saying, Japan, the famous empire that has been invincible for thousands of years and which will be swept aside by an economic and technological power superior to it
>>64802116>2020s America is just like a feudal state that bought a modern military out of the Sears catalog. Please vacate the gene pool.
>>64802038That image really isn't arranged very well. The blue arrow is pointing at the pile of bodies and the red arrow is pointing at the guys looking at the pile of bodies, so at a glance it actually conveys the opposite message.
>>64802086Script is the right word because the US and Chinese official government scenarios for a possible war are:>US: A war with China would be difficult, bloody, enormously expensive, and have consequences for the entire world, and it is ultimately in the best interests of everyone, including China, that is never happens. We are however, prepared to fight if necessary, and here's a list of ways we could better prepare.>China: We blow up every American ship and plane with hypersonic missiles on day one and they're not allowed to hit us back. Americans are fat and lazy and gay and will overthrow their government the moment they even see a recruiting poster. We execute the most difficult example of the most difficult type of warfare there is on the first try no problem. The Taiwanese do not even factor into it. We do not suffer any personal consequences during the war, in fact, there aren't even shortages of particular goods on store shelves. After our victory, Americans will personally debase themselves to each of us individually and every country in the world will happily send us tribute until the sun explodes.
>>64802144I mean, given China's surplus male population it's pretty likely he will.
>>64802176The irony of the Japan-America delusional comparison is that china's position is much more akin to Japan hoodwinking itself into putting all its chips on the decisive battle doctrine that never came to pass. China's kantai kessen is the belief that US carrier groups will line up to be neatly sunk like fairground ducks. With the key difference being china is a vastly less impressive naval power than Japan was at the start of their war.
>>64802116>Who is the rapidly industrializing Asian power hoping to expand its territory at the expense of its neighbor that expects its naval inferiority to offset by a sudden surprise attack and the advantage of internal lines and that its dynamic spirited, socially unified people will overcome the arrogant, decadent foreign devils who have clearly already started declining as shown by [recent thing]? Is it America?
>>64802191>I'm talking about the fact that a country that has suffered a cultural decline which has led to economic decline for decades can only be dominated by a country that is strong in all aspectt. totally ISN'T repeating what Japan said about America circa 1941 almost verbatim
>>64802191>can only be dominated by a country that is strong in all aspectsSo who's that then? Because it sure isn't limp dick China no matter how much it deludes itself.
>>64802191>That crime-ridden land of bootleggers and gangsters whose economy collapsed like a house of cards and is led by fractious politicians dependent on appeasing the voters' short-sighted whims cannot stand up to our proud ancient virtuous civilization, right my fellow Asian countrymen?
>>64802116>Japan>the famous empire that has been invincible for thousands of yearswhat?
>>64802268This isn't 2006 anymore, boomer, China has a very thick, rigid dick now which it will unveil any second.>t. chinkshill
>>64802116>It's true that the US wasn't a shithole fighting against savages 50 years before WWII,The last Apache war ended 45 years before Pearl Harbor and until the 1930s, the only road out of Arizona was made of wood, so speak for yourself.
>>64801644Average will pretty much always be higher than the actual median.
>>64802226I say you are like Japan because you have an excellent army, especially naval but you are not capable of regenerating it at one-tenth the speed of the Chinese, the Chinese build 300 warships per year without straining their economy while you build practically none, in fact they don't even try to have the title of the most powerful army in the world right now because if they did, the BRICS would panic, haven't you ever found it strange that they only have an army of 3 million men which is 0.2% of their population?
>>64802319Yes, Japan had never been conquered, not even by the Mongols who tried
>>64802398Okay, but WW3 will have exactly the same problem for the chinks that WW2 had for the nips: namely that it will be occurring on their own doorstep and they can't take the fight to the US. The Chinese coastline would be absolutely devastated, including all of their shipbuilding capacity, while the US will be bringing additional shipyards into service.
>>64802437>300 ships per year>hits crack pipe
>>64802437Why? The Chinese have everything they need to reach the United States in the same way the US can reach them
>>64802462You should look up the capabilities of Chinese submarines and aircraft carriers in comparison to their American counterparts.
>>64801692using economic integration as a tool of coercion might have worked 20 years ago but you kind of already showed your hand on that one and its not a trick that works twice
>>64802458we can meme it at this level
>>64802512Why do you include fishing dinghies you filthy pidor?
>>64801266>they have the production capacity & economy to overwhelm us, no matter the poor quality of said equipmentnow where have I heard that before?specifically within the last 4 years
>>64801849if it sinks it sinks - I'm willing to give Charlie the credit for that one, technicalities be damned
>>64802521Container shipyards are easily convertible into shipyards for warships
>>64802398>GLORIOUS TEN THOUSAND WAR FACTORIES OF GREAT WARLORD XI MAKE ENOUGH SHIPS TO BLOT OUT SUN WITHOUT CHINESE EVEN TRYING BRICS STRONGER THAN US OF A WE MANY YOU FEWbruh...
>>64801669Never and probably never will, since the Soviet Union is gone and Canada/Greenland invasion shitposting is just that.
>>64802547No, meatcube
>>64802560>URAAAAA BMPS LIKE WHEAT IN FIELD NO ONE CAN RESIST OUR UNSTOPPABLE ADVANCEthe parallels would be less disturbing if Russia were not still feeding its people into the meat grinder four years on
>>64802431>Japan had never been conqueredThe Perry Expedition came reasonably close considering there wasn't any actual fighting
>>64802208China is NOT thinking that. This schizo chink in the LRASM thread, the chink rocket thread, and now here is just jacking off his tiny yellow baby dick to delusional scenario. The chinks aren’t inept enough to start shooting, they understand their limitations and are doing what they think is the best course available to them. That is Sabre rattle for all the anons like our local tard while also extracting as much wealth out of Africa as they can.
>>64802547>w-warships are just hulls, no internal systems, right?>r-right?
>>64802512Vely implessive, I, John Smith flom the Olegon plovince, will wlite my palty leplesentative to submit to mighty chinese dlagon and humanist altelnative wold oldel.
>>64802587>The chinks aren’t inept enough to start shooting, they understand their limitations and are doing what they think is the best course available to them.I thought the same thing about Russia and then again with Iran and here we are
>>64797153>Not going to do flight ops ever again, John, so they're just meat.>what use is a crew specialized in flight ops without planes to op and a carrier to take flight from?
>>64802398>the Chinese build 300 warships per yearfilename:yeah.yeahpeg
>>64802512One thing I've noticed about you chinkshill is that you think infographics control reality.
>>64797072notice how they didn't mention planes, checkmate
>>64797072
>>64802645The continent is an unsinkable aircraft carrier so....
>>64801299>be me>chief engineer Admiral Nakhimov>ship enters drydock August 14th 1999>cool refit should take a year maybe two>blink>still here>wake up on deck seventeen>do not remember going to sleep>do not recognize deck seventeen>bulkhead glowing faint blue like it is thinking>pretty sure this used to be a broom closet>walk to engine spaces>reactor now has three extra reactors>none of them on the schematics>one is humming in latin>sign on wall says DO NOT TURN OFF AGAIN>ask junior officer what year it is>he checks wrist computer>computer checks him back>neither answer>decide it is a drinking day>which is every day>vodka ration now comes in a lead lined bottle>label says morale supplement>wake up on another deck>this one has artificial gravity but sideways>fall into wall>wall apologizes>corridor turret unfolds from ceiling>fires coherent light beam at a rat>rat ceases to exist retroactively>logbook updated automatically>find new weapons bay>was torpedo room yesterday>today it is advanced laser complex>tomorrow probably a cathedralAdmiral says theendless refit nears the end.It is not believed.
>>64802611And what was the result? Which countries did the United States recently force to capitulate? I remind you that your president stabbed his main arms buyers in the back and gained absolutely nothing in the end
>>64802675>The continent is an unsinkable aircraft carrier so....And yet monke is somehow managing to sink the country and tank the economy.
>>64802689I know this is supposed to be eldritch but it really reads like someone suffering from a severe alcohol addition went cold turkey
>>64802707uh-oh, looks like someone's meltie has started
>>64802707>And what was the result?*gestures at Iran and Russia*
>>64802739Sounds like accidentally taking double doze of Venlafaxine and not getting serotonin syndrome but everything else.
>>64802761And yes can confirm first hand, it sounds exactly like it.
>>64801387>Even if you stuck a chimpanzee in the white house there are no "superior enemies" to the USA.You seriously overestimate America. If you look under the hood, America in 2026 is like the Soviet Union in 1986. Tons of heavy duty stuff available on paper, but actual ready rate and actual production and actucal inventory is awful. F.ex one common thread in USN incident reports is deferred maintenance and equipment that may work intermittently or is stuck in a degraded mode. Muntions production and inventory is in an awful state. And thats just the navy. Europe is similar but different, anything military is for show, and the difference between the paper formations and the actual formations are huge, and everyone knows this, but it does not matter, because in case of a war with Russia or whatever, the Americans are going to come and take care of everything so we dont need to... except it looks like they wont because they are just for show too.
>>64802742I mean yes, it's quite frustrating to see you say that you've subdued all your enemies as if it were true when you haven't done anything, there's a lot of work to be done to bring you back to reality
>>64802782Which raises the question of how bad China's military must be.
>>64798161>>64800989To give China marginal credit, they've been preparing for this for a while now. Back in the 80's when Australia was getting out of the naval aviation game, a Chinese company got the contract to scrap the HMAS Melbourne but the military actually studied it for several years first.Given that it was an old WW2-vintage light carrier from the Royal Navy that'd just been heavily refit over the years it probably didn't give them a ton of the cutting edge and anything sensitive would've been stripped out, but it still probably gave them some insight into what a reasonably maintained and functional carrier from a reasonably competent military should look like.If there's one thing the Chinese military is good at it's the long game for capability building. Not saying I'd bet on them over a US CVN or anything, but I'd be more worried about their naval air wing than Russia's.
>>64802799No one's claiming that the US subdued Russia and Iran. They chimped out and destroyed themselves.
>>64802815Because Russia has no carriers. Japan's naval aviation capabilities vastly outclass China's.
>>64797155>Nation-states are obsolete, decrees president of Gasprom Corporate Autocracy, once major policymaker of former Russia
>>64802782>America in 2026 is like the Soviet Union in 1986Be sure tk wear a helmet when you go outside you retard
>russia is included in the aircraft carrier countries list because of one "planned" carrier: project 23000 shtormMight as well "plan" for 10 carriers and decree they virtually on par with america
>>64802997Wikipedia is notoriously bad for Russian Armed Forces related stuff.
>>64803003Oh no, so the are actually building that carrier?
>>64803007Huh? We're on the same side here.
>>64803003The russian armed forced are notoriously bad
>>64803014It's technically true, the Shtorm was planned in the late 2010s, but now it seems laughable. However, it's officially not removed from the plans so it's technically accurate that they have one planned carrier (on top of one active carrier - currently being refitted-)
>>64803007They built a toy model and made a hype video a few years ago but that's about it. They literally just sent all their most experienced aircraft carrier personnel into the Pokrovsk blender so that tells you everything you need to know about their plans for future carrier projects.
>>64803241A FUCKING RAMP
>>64803241They should build it with an armoured prow and an orthodox cathedral on the end>nato would never strike a religious building!
>>64803290Even worse, two ramps.
>>64802462>chinks have attack subs on par with USN>chinks have SSBN’s on par with the USN>chinks have a blue water fleet (let alone on par with US)>chinks have nuclear vessels and auxiliary for non-nuclear escorts on par with USN>chinks have deep water ports that won’t actually just be shallow kill boxes for US SSN’s>chinks have any ISR capability beyond shitty one-off installations on first and second island chain sandpits>chinks have ANY Allie’s in the region let alone EASTPAC>chinks have sixth gen fighter fleets with logistic support for trans-PAC strikes >chink pilots have flight hours in the same order of magnitude as USAF/USN>chinks have stealth bomber fleet >chinks have second-gen stealth bomber fleet>chinks have non-nuclear strike options that won’t be interpreted as actual ICBM strikes (DF in looking at you)>chinks are energy and food positive and don’t really on primarily maritime shipping to feed and fuel their shithole cargo cult>chinks have orbital assets equivalent to X-37b>chinks can handle hand-me-down US OECM like when Pelosi dabbed on ‘em>chinks have anti-stealth radars that prevent something like Venezuela >chinks are able to convince anyone on /k/ they aren’t yellow vatniggers
>>64802782Every nation has shit ready rate by the standards of most milbloggers who won't even specify what they consider to be "good" most of the time.Nobody in Europe seriously expects the US to come in and save us. We're well aware what the general US attitude is towards actually helping their allies rather than the other way around. (30 more years in the sandbox!). Like I said, I have no reason to be saying this out of some affection for the USA.The problem with every milblogger/opinion piece giver particularly on naval matters is that they see maintenance and defect rates which match historical levels and assume that it is unique to *insert navy* rather than that it's something inherent to operating something as complex and large as a warship. I guarantee China has exactly the same problems, so will Russia, India, France, Brazil or any other nation you can name that operates a reasonably sized naval force.>>64803003>Wikipedia is notoriously bad Fixed it
>>64803600Not to mention the USN is seriously in a category unto of itself when it comes to damage control. It’s like someone deep within the Pentagon realized that humans are inherently lazy and retarded and has autistically screeched during all the retarded procurement debacles to ensure no matter what is developed it is ready for circle-dog-zebra freighter ramming fun times. The newest chink carrier has a hangar with deck doors that will absolutely create a bottleneck inferno the second shit goes sour. What’s even more embarrassing is that no one in West Taiwan picked up on it until they made a propaganda clip and got shat on by actually yak human beings.
>>64802782>just for show The absolute state of chinsect projection
>>64803600Fuck off vatnigger
>for some reason russia is blue and west is redRussia decrees that life is obsolete
>>64803864I'd love to know their definition of mercy here.Also love that even while saying the west has little dignity they have to admit they have substantially less.
>>64803864Any idea what exactly is meant by citizenship? Surely most Russians are citizens. Is it meant in some metaphorical sense?
>>64803953It's just a word which is PITA to translate. It's "гpaждaнcтвeннocть" which is a adjective with root word of "citizen/citizenship" but more closely means something like civic-mindedness or civic consciousness.
>>64803953>Is it meant in some metaphorical sense?no, you're probably thinking of civic-mindedness, which is probably covered in the other axescitizenship probably means ease of becoming a citizen>>64803907>I'd love to know their definitioncorrect, the devil is in the definitionsour governments use that to massage the statistics too, but not to such a great extent as the rusnigs
>>64803953Maybe the concept of being a good citizen, so pitching in to make sure your town is a good, well-functioning place? By that token, they'd probably be trying to say that westerners don't value having a community and just want to watch TV and buy crap.
>>64802782yes everyone knows everything and when push comes to shove the US will reveal itself to be a paper tiger and BRICS will reign supreme
>>64803987Lol
>>64799742Tranny,A carrier is a carrier, there's no "betterer" or "worse" carriers, so the comparison is idiotic. Only an uneducated ankle biter would try to convince anyone else that their static equipment is better than another's.
>>64804076Ivan, go back to /pol/
>>64804076Bad news, the tranny's right and you're retarded.Odd self own, but you do you.
>>64804076The streetshiter containment board is over there Saar>>>/pol/
>>64804076They might as well be signing their posts when they start calling people trannies. For some reason they can't help resorting to it at some point. Too much time spent on /pol/ I guess.
>>64804076So when the US in WW2 built carriers that could house more air wings than the Japanese ones, that difference doesn't count? Carrier is carrier, comrade
>>64803864If life in russia is worth 40 of 100 points does this mean russians rate death as 60 of 100 points?
>>64797072>In 2024, the ship’s crew was reassigned to the war in Ukraine, forming a ground unit operating in the Pokrovsk sector.Ah, so they're all fucking dead by now.
>>64803859Nothing I said is pro-Russian you brain rotted deluded NAFOid retard. What part of what I said gave you any idea I was a fucking vatnik?Did you slip from a blanket as a child?>>64804214Comrade, the term we prefer is "reassigned to other worldly duties", glory to Russia )))
>>64800989...okay, so what? Are you saying they then afterwards stripped all the paint and let everything rust away immediately or something? Like, is this really where we are going? Saying it's inconceivable that China could actually have decent maintenance and cleanliness on a relatively new ship that's also a huge prestige posting within their navy? Like, this shit isn't exactly some grand achievement. It just looks like it when you compare it with the fucking Russians.
>>64798151Main issue now is that even if we do course correct it's gonna be damn near a generation to actually fix the issues, because by now it's educated and trained manpower that's the real problem. The labour shortages in shipbuilding are insane, and there's just damn near nobody interested in getting into it or training anyone new interested in it, so what workforce there still is keeps aging and shrinking.
>>64802226>Is it America?Yes. Icnreasingly more so with every year. Seethe more about it.
>>64804282>NAFOid retardPlease get back to /pol/estine
>>64804282>What part of what I said gave you any idea I was a fucking vatnik?This part:>you brain rotted deluded NAFOid retardAlso,>Did you slip from a blanket as a child?That saying doesn't translate into English at all, Ivan
>>64802116Be careful, /k/ jannies now ban you for hurting the feelings of the American people.I really can't tell the difference these days between American posters and vatniks and chinks.
>>64804379Some are "warm port blooded Johns from Texas oblast", some are just mindbroken by propaganda the russians hire the jeets to feed those retards with.
>>64804282>nothing I said is pro-russian>seethes about NAFOLol, he pegged you though right? Like, whatever you said gave off such a whiff of vatnik that he immediately called you and then you immediately proved he had you dead to rights, lol.
>>64797072>under the z, under the z
>>64804369Never been on /pol/ in my life, tourist.>>64804371I have one of the first run of NAFO patches lmao. I'm extremely pro-Ukraine and pro-European. You still haven't told me what it was that made you call me a vatnik btw?>That saying doesn't translate into English at all, IvanIt's actually something I picked up from my Polish girlfriend. I think it translates just fine, the implication remains the same. Also the insistence that the only languages in the world are either Russian or American lol.>>64804387Except he got it completely wrong? I hate NAFO for being co-opted by mentally ill people who scream "vatnik" at literal Ukrainian servicemen for not agreeing with whatever mentally ill bullshit they are talking about this month.
>>64804445>are either Russian or American lolMeant Russian or English but close enough. Translation of idioms doesn't mean somebody is Russian. Anyway, blatant bad faith actor is bad faith, go back to /pol/ yourself pls.
>this twitter organization no one but vatniks ever bring up was corrupted by those damn mentally ill peoplek, Ivan
>>64804460Bad faith purity politics where you cherry pick statements and comments in isolation.Nothing I said was pro-Russian, I'm not pro-Russian and I think my clarification would have cleared up any nonsense accusations from a genuine actor.
>>64798833Looks like usa is completely irrelevant in coal. Have you been lying here for like months now? https://www.spglobal.com/energy/en/news-research/latest-news/metals/012126-chinas-dec-met-coal-imports-rise-28-mom-to-138-mil-mt
>>64798953Well by sheer geography they are. They're in Europe and Asia and North America. That's a global power because beeg country. Also they maintain foreign bases.
>>64802116I don't think this graph says what you want it to say
