>>64866572
>playing Squad after the PvE debacle

>>64866572
People still play Squad? Everyone worth playing with quit after the ICO dropped.

Implessive

>>64866572
Explosives are better than bullets at suppression, volume of fire, and more. Problem is making it affordable

>>64866593
Yeah because Squad was always for casualbabbies who couldn't handle not being able to headshot people at 300m while standing

>>64866650
Squad was way better when it was the COD of milsims, back when it was 99% infantry combat with the biggest vehicle being the MRAP. Intense firefights and actual team play, now it’s trying to be Project Reality but the player base are mutes from battlefield

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>>64866650
ICO made the game more casual though. It significantly lowered the skill ceiling while raising the skill floor a little, which ruined the game for all the reliable, good players who you could actually count on to do something. You no longer can use your superior skill to change the playing field, but at the same time you can curbstomp the newbies just as well.

After ICO, nobody who could actually lead an assault or find an enemy FOB/HAB, or could sneak out of the defense line to interrupt an enemy flank kept playing the game anymore. I played on the single best server in my timezone / geographic area and the entire server practically fucking died after ICO.

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>>64866650
ICO ruined squad. So many veterans stopped playing squad which directly lowered the quality of all matches since only the dumb and blind (people that started playing after ICO) are left as infantry. The few experienced players that stayed all jumped into vehicles so they dont have to suffer from ICO infantry noodle arms.

ICO was and still is a massive negative experince for the squad experience, everyone that started playing squad after ICO have no idea what they are talking about since they have no reference for how good squad's infantry combat was before ICO. It is an absolute tragedy that ICO even got passed, one of the devs for squad called "sgt ross" is himself an actual US veteran that spent time in afghanistan and got shot at. He described in a dev stream way back like 8 years ago that from his experience, when he got shot at he felt a surge of adrenaline, his vision got very sharp and focused (not blurry), he ran faster and his aim was very steady (no noodle arms). He personally hated the project reality blurry eyes suppression system and did not want it in squad but I guess he lost in the end.

>>64866812
>>64866920
What's ICO?

>>64866933
https://squad.fandom.com/wiki/Infantry_Combat_Overhaul
these niggas are seething over a change that happened over three years ago

>>64866920
>He personally hated the project reality blurry eyes suppression system
It's a good system though. It worked perfectly fine in Red Orchestra (original). It's the only way you can simulate a soldier's unwillingness to just fucking die pointlessly by sticking their head up in the middle of a machine gun's fire and it adds interesting depth to gameplay, allowing suppression to actually be a useful thing.
The noodle arms and excessive recoil are the problem. Heavy suppression effect while still being able to shoot accurately is what you want in the game, but for some unknown reason the devs chose to just ruin it all.

>>64866933
Infantry Combat Overhaul. It was a major overhaul of the way infantry combat works in Squad that pretty much ruined the game.
It added ridiculous amount of sway to your aim (despite not being able to stabilize your rifle on surfaces), and ridiculous amount of recoil to shooting, especially for machine guns (even when using bipods) leaving you basically incapable of actually assaulting anything reliably, since you couldn't fucking aim anymore if you moved in the past 10 seconds. Likewise you could no longer use machine guns (except the !Iranian MG3), since you couldn't actually hit a man standing out in the open because of how much recoil the weapons now have.

>>64866638
Except for the fact that you can't carry nearly as many grenades as you can bullets. The idea behind suppression is keeping the other guy's head down. If you run out of ammo that don't work too good.

>>64866954
jesus, that sounds terrible.
why the fuck would they do that?

>>64866965
because originaly, you could play squad like call of duty, there was no sway, no suppression and your hit always land at the center of your screen.
It wasn't playing like project reality but more like call of duty with slower movement, ICO basically filtered the casuals and made the game play like Project Reality

>>64866965
Dogshit lead designer, ultimately.
The retard in charge pushed for the ICO update and then the update to UE5 which ruined the performance of the game even further.

>>64866954
>>64866964
Suppression isn't just about how many rounds are fired down range but also about how lethal it is and how close it impacts the enemies.
https://youtu.be/7tUW0cUkNv0?t=256
It is the year of our lord 2026 and Squad still does not have any form of richochet ballistic mechanic. It only exists for vehicle and it is purely a cosmetic thing since anything that ricochet from a vehicles armor turn into pretty sparkles that cant damage anything.

>>64866965
Devs dont play their own game. They only want numbers to go up and all the old devs from when squad got released for alpha testing are all gone.

I am convinced Squad has been handed over to an academic institution studying the minds of goycattle. These pathetic faggots who still play that game will defend it until their last breath, even when the game is provably the biggest piece of shit that ever plopped into the street.
The developers should be thrown in jail, because it should be illegal to knowingly distribute a defective product.
F R A U D
R
A
U
D

>>64866954
>Heavy suppression effect while still being able to shoot accurately is what you want in the game, but for some unknown reason the devs chose to just ruin it all.
Yes
Without suppression effects machine guns in games do jack fucking shit, you're just a bullet magnet for anyone with an ACOG and a rifle

>>64867013
>Devs dont play their own game.
they never did.
Did you ever saw the squad forums during the alpha release ? devs were complaining that people was bothering them to work on the game while they were watching the Dota 2 tournament.
and during beta they never worked on their game at all, it took the fucking chinks at tencent to finally get their asses moving and release something.
now the game is actually getting content instead of eternity of nothing, UE5 is a pure shitshow tho, they should have never started using it

>>64867034
oh, better destroy the entire game then

>>64867041
Yes, the game unfortunately attracted a lot of the battlefield crowd and they never really assimilated into the Milsim crowd. Being a squad leader is trying to get a bunch of mute apes to actually do something like setting up this FOB and defending the objective instead of marching towards the enemy through an open plain. One guy with an ACOG could solo an entire enemy platoon in old squad in a good flank.

I wanted the game to be like PR’s infantry gameplay where the killing power of the squad was the MG and Grenadier, the MG to pin down the enemy, the grenadier to hit them with 40mm HE, and the riflemen to close the gap and frag them. Early squad was call of duty. Which was fun. Right now it’s neither

>>64867013
>Suppression isn't just about how many rounds are fired down range but also about how lethal it is and how close it impacts the enemies.
It's psychological warfare, ultimately. It's making the other guy think he's going to die if the tries to fulfill his duty.
You can't achieve anything like that in a video game, because death doesn't matter to the player. I've got 50 kills with my FAL rifle grenadier kit, do I really care if my K/D gets a bit worse? Lmao, no I don't.
So the only way to have such an effect is to just physically screw the receiving player over by fucking up his vision and aim.

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>>64867036
>Did you ever saw the squad forums during the alpha release ? devs were complaining that people was bothering them to work on the game while they were watching the Dota 2 tournament.
No sadly I never saw that, I have however heard from a friend that played a fuck ton of squad back in the days before ICO. He had to explain to a developer that was in his squad how the dubbel neutral flag mechanic works and that they need to go back to their own flag to recapture it since no other squad wanted to do it.

I did however see a developer run of from his squad to wander with some blueberry from another squad just because it was a girl. And I know the girl was also underage since she have said so multiple times in voice chat.

>>64867060
>because death doesn't matter to the player
Except it does. A dead player cant hold terrain, cant hold a flag, he cant shoot you either since he is looking at his spawn screen instead of you. Everytime he dies a ticket is lost and he has to respawn on either the rally or fob which is behind the frontline which if he keeps dying without killing anyone back then the frontline is gona get pushed all the way to his spawn point which is gona get destroyed/overrun and then he has to spawn at is main.
>do I really care if my K/D gets a bit worse? Lmao, no I don't.
You should care because kills is how you fundemantally win in a game. Now of course there is a difference between spawn camping a rally that is nowhere close to the objective versus wiping out an enemy squad and taking down their fob on the attack flag so you can start capturing it together with your squad since you cant solo cap flags.

>>64867109
>Except it does.
No it doesn't. If I can respawn within one minute, I am always going to take the chance to headshot you, just because. The reward is always greater than the risk in a video game, because all I'm fundamentally trading is time, which doesn't matter, vs killing enemies, which wins us the game and so matters. I'm obviously going to pick the risk 100% of the time.
This is how any decently good player thinks in the game.

>A dead player cant hold terrain, cant hold a flag, he cant shoot you either since he is looking at his spawn screen instead of you. Everytime he dies a ticket is lost and he has to respawn on either the rally or fob which is behind the frontline which if he keeps dying without killing anyone back then the frontline is gona get pushed all the way to his spawn point which is gona get destroyed/overrun and then he has to spawn at is main.
Yeah, but none of this matters, since it's a team game. No single player is out there doing everything by themselves. If they die, they'll either get picked up by a teammate or just respawn and be back in the fight in a minute. It's completely inconsequential. Even if you personally die, your teammates will hold the line while you spawn back in. Your active effort in killing the enemy is always worth more than trying to survive, at least, assuming you're somewhat good at the game.

>You should care because kills is how you fundemantally win in a game.
Yeah, sure, but when I've got +30 kills and a couple deaths, have personally lead the effort to take down two enemy FOBs, my personal death is not a big deal. It's just the cost of a good effort.

>>64867125
>If I can respawn within one minute
And can you? If you miss the rally wave then you got at max extra 20 seconds to wait to spawn so 80 seconds. That is 80 seconds of you not being with your squad since you took the risk of peeking. You could also spawn on the fob but then you have to count the time it takes to spawn, run and then run all the way back to your squad. Even if you dont give up and just lay there downed that is you out of the fight for a unknown time before you get revived, could be 10 seconds or it could be a solid minute.

>Yeah, but none of this matters, since it's a team game
And what do you think is gona happen if one team is getting killed more then the opposing team?
>Your active effort in killing the enemy is always worth more than trying to survive, at least, assuming you're somewhat good at the game.
And good players tend to have a very good KD ratio. Shit players have a shit KD ratio. Good players dont die that often while shit players die often. Shit players tend to not give a damn about tickets and gives up the moment they die so they can zombie wave in a straight line from the fob.

>Yeah, sure, but when I've got +30 kills and a couple deaths, have personally lead the effort to take down two enemy FOBs, my personal death is not a big deal. It's just the cost of a good effort.
So we agree then? Death matters, kills matters, the cost of your death was offset by having more kills then deaths and taking down fobs. Thanks to your kills you got close enough to overrun fobs/rallies together with your squad since the people you shot spent more time looking at the spawn screen then playing the game. Im sure you have had a few 1 ticket victories where absolutely every person on the team that was downed was told to not give up and just wait.

>>64867236
>And can you?
Yes. Even faster than that, with reliable medics.
>If you miss the rally wave then you got at max extra 20 seconds to wait to spawn so 80 seconds. That is 80 seconds of you not being with your squad since you took the risk of peeking.
That's well worth it, since the potential reward from peeking is far higher than my personal death. Me dying doesn't really impede the rest of the squad's functioning, but it can potentially enable it far further, if I succeed. Taking out a machine gun / shooter and enabling further kills and advancements in that direction is worth far more than 1 ticket. Success in Squad is basically built on actions like this; taking a risk and succeeding to enable the blueberries to advance along that chosen path. You, as the good player, clear the path and then the rest of the squad just ambles along, ending up in a FOB being taken out or an objective being captured.

>And what do you think is gona happen if one team is getting killed more then the opposing team?
Doesn't matter if objectives are being captured and FOBs being taken out. A single FOB taken out right now is 20 points? Same for Objectives?
You'll have a hard time trying to match that with kills alone.

>So we agree then? Death matters, kills matters
Less than taking objectives and FOBs, and less than enabling maneuvers of blueberries by killing high value enemies.
It's far more valuable to take the risk, opening up an avenue of advance for your squad, than it is to try to survive and preserve one ticket.
>So we agree then
Not really.

> Im sure you have had a few 1 ticket victories where absolutely every person on the team that was downed was told to not give up and just wait.
Sure, but those are never really good matches. They're clusterfucks where nobody really knows what they're doing, and everything stagnates and devolves into a shoot-em-all.

>>64866572
Only if you either
>Are in a defensive situation with adequate ammo supplies
Or
>Are doing some SOF raid and don't intend to stick around for longer than it takes for you to run out of grenades, (not long if you have to carry them yourself)
In most scenarios I can think of something like the IMPLESSIVE chink grenade "sniper" or the new mag fed grenade launchers the US is testing would be better, having conventional bullets fix a target in place to keep their heads down and then following up with an accurate grenade from a grenade rifle/drone dropped/mortar/yet another attempt at airburst/etc. is going to be more effective than trying to just shell the vague area the enemy is for the simple reason that one guy can carry several hundred rounds of bullets and can possibly just use the same ammo as his squad's rifles, but you can only carry 50, MAYBE 100 if you go full retard and have zero other kit, 40mm grenades, and even then 50 is probably too high a number.

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>>64867267
They could be very useful in urban combat. A fire-ready 40mm AGL takes two men to carry it around, while this thing could be used by just one guy.
Of course you'd probably have at least an ammo carrier and probably a team leader too, to boot, but it's still a more maneuverable option in comparison to the old AGL.
It's really an entirely reasonable development.

>>64867057
Squad's devs just patently refuse to mechanically enforce not being a fucking faggot and cooperating. If they made the suppression shit linearly scale down in effect if you were near your squadmates it would fix half the game's issues overnight. No more one-man frag montages on entire squads, but people actually fighting together are more effective.

To elaborate on what I think about suppression in Squad. The ICO system was shit, it is all cosmetic bullshit and annoys the player by shaking his gun around and making him blind which removs the fun factor in a vidya gun fight since not only do you have to fight the enemies, you also fight your own gun.

ICO should have focused on making lethality higher or potentional chance of death by having a ricochet system. Right now if a machine gunner is spraying 100 rounds down an hallways that is only gameplay wise 100 projectiles. Real rounds when striking hard surface tend to tumble, bounce, fragment and so on instead of just 100 projectiles it could be 150-200 projectiles that can kill you. This factor alone would enable fire and manouver tactics to happen organically in the game just by having firepower being that more lethal.

>>64867266
Anon think about it, how do you take a flag? how do you take down a fob? By killing the people defending them. Even in your example of taking risks to peek a machine gunner is still about you scoring a kill. Kills matter, especially kills done while playing for the objective, (flag, fobs).

>Sure, but those are never really good matches.
Guess we have completely different squad experience, I have some fond memories of very close games where calls for waiting for medics or digging down your own fob radio so that you dont get hit with the 20 - tickets if the enemy dig it down and those calls turning out to be correct in the end and how everyone is cheering in the end chat.
>Gordok invasion, last flag is on tunnel defence
>tickets low, my squad is pushing on west entrance
>died again and again but I (lat kit) manage to fire frag round down hall and it kills all the defenders
>squad rush in seconds after the frag round hit
>kill the few guys still alive that are bandaging
>get close to the fob so it is overrun and shoot the defenders holding the east entrance in the back
>game won

>>64867312
That would also help to keep squads together.

>>64867346
They also need to just accept that vehicles running multiple squads the fuck over due to limited AT options that always get taken by the most useless retard on the team is not good design, and that they need to err on the side of fun. If we cannot pick AT weapons off the bodies of teammates, then they need to be more available for units with low AT options. It is abysmal dogshit having to rely on the team's singular heavy AT to try and shoot an IFV driving directly up to multiple squads to mow them down because your own is doing the same to the enemy infantry.

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>>64867346
>Anon think about it, how do you take a flag?
Disable the primary HAB of the enemy on the point and then tell the blueberries to run into the cap. Go hunt for the backup FOB based on intuition / enemy paths.
>By killing the people defending them.
Yeah naw. That's the ineffective way of doing it. It's all about targeting the enemy FOB and herding the blueberries. The better you are at manipulating the masses to move in whatever direction is relevant, the better you're at winning.
>Even in your example of taking risks to peek a machine gunner is still about you scoring a kill. Kills matter, especially kills done while playing for the objective, (flag, fobs).
But it's not the kill itself that matters, but the opening up of the terrain. Kills are valuable not because of the tickets, but because of what they enable. Every enemy you kill opens up a part of the map for maneuver. Every space you open up by killing the enemy covering that piece of land is another location you can herd your blueberries towards.

>Guess we have completely different squad experience
Probably, yeah. I played Squad at a very high level, on what was probably the single best Squad server in the entire world, where this stuff you have fond memories of:
>I have some fond memories of very close games where calls for waiting for medics or digging down your own fob radio so that you dont get hit with the 20 - tickets if the enemy dig it down
was the absolute basic experience. This stuff you have fond memories of, to me, was the absolute basic experience. Digging down your own losing radios and telling the blueberries to not give up was what would be done ALWAYS. It was, to us, such a basic feature of the game, that I can't see it as being anything noteworthy.
A big part of why I hate ICO is because the update killed this experience to a great degree. All the people who did this on reflex stopped playing the game.

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Why play squad when Arma Reforger exist?

>>64867294
thats pic is drip af
honestly shame we dont see much HK GMG adoption across other "collective wect" countries

>>64867363
>Disable the primary HAB of the enemy on the point and then tell the blueberries to run into the cap
Absolutely correct. You posted Op first light and I have very fond memories of that map, You plop down the fob and you SPREAD THE FUCK OUT so you dont get turtled and raped by grenades. You hold terrain around the flag and fob etc, you dont sit in the building and get surrounded. Very sad they removed that map.
>But it's not the kill itself that matters, but the opening up of the terrain.
But to do open that terrain you have to score a kill hence why I say kills for the objective matter while kills from spawn camping a rally that is nowhere near the flag or the objective is useless.

>I played Squad at a very high level, on what was probably the single best Squad server in the entire world,
You played on mumblerines? Remember the nordic drama?
>was the absolute basic experience
I wish it was basic. Pubie servers used to be good but with ICO and the nonstop sales + freeweekends just burnt all the good squad leads out, game just stopped being fun with ICO.

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>>64867406
>But to do open that terrain you have to score a kill hence why I say kills for the objective matter while kills from spawn camping a rally that is nowhere near the flag or the objective is useless.

>You played on mumblerines? Remember the nordic drama?
Yeah, and Bloodborne. Nordic was always a massive cunt. It's a miracle it took that long for the drama to appear. All you had to do was play one round with him to recognize him as the biggest fucking asshole you'd ever find in the entire game. An actual, diagnosable, clinical narcissist.
He'd regularly make absolutely dogshit decisions in-game, then blame it all on some random member of his squad, as if he wasn't the one who told us to assault a well-defended objective across an open field; as if the machine gunner who decided to stay back a bit to provide us with covering fire was the one at fault and not the only member of the squad actually being useful. Shit like that.
Honestly not surprised to learn that other M members had VAC bans either, desu. Loads of cunts in that clan. All ego, limited capability. Basic competitive FPS gamers.
>I wish it was basic. Pubie servers used to be good but with ICO and the nonstop sales + freeweekends just burnt all the good squad leads out, game just stopped being fun with ICO.
Yeah. I mostly stopped caring after ICO and stopped playing the game at the start of last year. I played a couple rounds with some [R] clan members and former Mumblerines, and it just felt like shit without the old guys involved. Playing in a clan-stacked squad and being the only guy smart enough to properly assault an enemy FOB and cover relevant lines of fire just feels bad. What's even the fucking point?

>>64866579
Qrd?

>>64867426
It honestly nice to find an old squad soul on /k/ of all places.

My gordok greentext story is if IIRC from before the v10 animation update. Persistant ammo, buddy rallies didn't exist and only medics could revive so all squads had 2 medics as a rule and if you didn't like then you got kicked from the squad. I remember it so well since I fired the lucky frag round that cleared the west entrance of tunnel defence.
>What's even the fucking point?
Yeah. Squad has changed so hard and all the old guys you knew are gone.

>>64866937
>Why are you complaining that the game was ruined? It's been 3 years now so that means it's good again.

>>64867013
see this is why I come here. I learned someting new on that video.

>>64867369
I really like Reforger but as the other anons have discussed the lack of suppression really hurts the game and it's sad Klamacz (lead dev) is against it. I don't really blame him though cuz most implementations tend to suck as they usually focus on making your arms noodles and blurring your screen. Wish more games would experiment like how Insurgency Sandstorm made your char start swearing, revealing your location. You could maybe audio gate sounds so you only hear the gunfire/explosions (and your own ragged breathing) as you're getting hammered.

>>64866572
If the ammo can be fused to detonate in an effective way under dynamic conditions. From contact to just inside a window or opening or after penetrating regular walls or even up to a couple of inches of concrete. Would also need to be a fatal round if it just hits a target with nothing but kinetic energy. So surprise pop targets still get killed by just getting shot. Crazy idea: A high res camera, persistent range finder and AI that reads what's downrange and what the operater is seeing through the optic.. Then fuses each round for optimum effect within the flight time of each round.

>>64866763
Same thing happened with Project Reality, the mod and playerbase was best around version 0.5-0.7 ish, afterwards feature creep, too large maps and a more inept playerbase ruined it bit by bit

Implessive

>>64866572
retards will make 1 million fallacious excuses as to why it's not, because nobody does it. it's a brilliant idea. if i ran an army i would equip every soldier with a magazine fed grenade launcher. i would also bring back flamethrowers.

>>64867363
Im still having this experience. Just find better servers lol

>>64867771
We have the Red Orchestra series and suppression has always been and worked there, since 2006. Lack of suppression might encourage more "skilful" play but it doesn't have the visceral feel of PR or RO1 firefights, or hell, even RS2

>>64868015
I wouldn't go that far but slightly before 1.0 was golden
There's a lot of shit that went wrong with PR, but the final nail in the coffin was the no-fun 6 player limit for auto rifles and grenadiers (don't remember if LAT too), we used to run 4-man patrols all the time and just couldn't play the game at all after they imposed that limit
Especially with how nofun the servers got, no you can't take AA and place mines at the spawn protection boundary or harass their air with AA close to base, that's spawncamping, get banned

>>>/v/

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why not just use this fucktoy with airburst or HEDP? its probably a shitton lighter as well (even the M2)

>>64868679
We (the U.S.) is looking at that, but the fire rate and ammo is too low. The Barrett 30mm magazine fed grenade launcher is building upon the XM25. Anti ambush tactics is supposed to be mag dumping HE in the direction of whatever is shooting at you

>>64868695
the kill radius of a airburst shell is like 30m (i dont actually remember so im low balling it i cant be bothered to dig up my notebook from 2015)
>but the fire rate and ammo is too low.
ammo yes, fire rate no
https://youtu.be/vg3GHUm0FOs?si=BpmfKyCe2Ha80OAH
your doctrine is just different, we have a CG and a 240 (had, we now have a 7.62 negev) in every squad, instead of a weapons squad or platoon you have

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>>64867458
>Qrd?
Yes, the game is even better since.