>JKR says she'll pay any women with Klinefelter's syndrome £1,000,000>She thinks she's making some really clever point about how intersex conditions are still either male or female>Woman comes forward saying she has mosaic Klinefelter's syndrome>JKR starts deleting tweets and backtracking>"Erm actually I was talking about Terner syndrome">Doubles down on Klinefelter's syndrome offer>People start pointing out someone has come forward>Starts backing backtracking again>"I will write the cheque when I see proof of no Y chromosome" >??????She thinks she was making some great point about how if you have a Y chromosome you're a man and therefore no woman can have it but was just too ignorant to realise that women can have it it's just much more rare. I hope she gets some how legally forced to pay up, it would be so funny.
>You must have Klinefelter's syndrome but no Y chromosomeThis is some real Dunning Kruger
>>35491782Yeah. Anyone who comes up this is how she would respond. You would have to take it to court and I mean look at the state of the U.K. is that a good idea?
>I have KS, just trust me bro
>>35491782this is so stupid lmao. why does she die on the dumbest hills over this trans stuff?
>>35491782She’s right. Klinefelter’s is XXY. That’s not a Y chromosome. t.bio tranny
>>35491834she's probably telling the truth, there's an increased incidence of KS in trans women. if she isn't then someone else certainly does. it doesn't matter anyways because JKR doesn't consider trans women women, that's the whole bit.
>>35491761Theyfabs are claiming they have kleinfelters now
>>35491761jenni felted again
You trannies are fucking weird and so wrong.
>>35491850Just prove it and wake up 1m richer
>>35491782?? > I want to see someone with XXY>but it only counts if you have no Y in your XXY what the fuck
>>35491861no, like, the whole bit is that it doesn't matter who you present she will say "they're not a *true* woman" >>35491782
>>35491834It's not like the lack of proof is even JKR's issue, she's asking for a karyotype test that shows no Y chromosome, which she would absolutely have by definition if she had Klinefelter's syndrome
>>35491782She's just YWNBAW'ing her.
>>35491849>XXY>No Y chromosomeanon
>>35491934In her argument it’s one thing. Terfs are not pragmatists
>have a month free off>know an exceeding amount on this topicthere might be a way
>>35491930but she's literally a woman???have TERF's decided taht intersex people just don't count anymore?
>>35491991Not to mention, she is mosaic so she has both XX and XXY chromosomes. Is only part of her female, then? What part? Transphobes are fucking morons who don’t care about science and the complexities of human biology.
>>35491991Yes? That's literally what those tweets say.It's not supposed to be a rational argument she's just openly embracing being a bully. Her actual reasoning probably goes something along the lines of XXY get gendered male by default, so if you're an XXY woman you're trans, so you're not a woman.
lmao she's literally doing the "I want a reasonable debate, but it's only fair if you accept premises that a priori declare me correct" meme
>>35492011This also contradicts JKR's own definition of what a woman is, like is it only chromosomes when it comes to intersex people
I expect this is gonna have to be about ~15x as long before I'm a millionaire. beyond a reasonable doubt and all that.
>>35491782>the moment i see no proof
>>35492115what are you doing anon?
>>35492011I would think if they girl in the OP shows that they have XX chromosomes along with XXY chromosomes that would be enough to satisfy her terms
>>35492505it would, but she won't listen. >>35491782then if she tries to sue she would happily pay her lawyers <2 million pounds to make the problem go away. it's not about the money.
>>35492505she would just ignore it, block her or move the goalposts again, probably scrolling through her timeline to find something to QT to her audience to cause a wave of harassment in the process
>>35491761She's a tranny tho
>>35492574and she has klinefelter's...
>>35492574of course a tranny responds. rowling obviously meant cis womenthis part is pretty cringe though>became *me* for the first time>as in instantly the moment I came outwhy do twitter trannies say this? you're not a woman just because you say you're a tranny, and it definitely isn't instantaneous. what are they thinking when they say this?
>>35492641cis women with klinefelter's?I don't think rowling is capable of complex thought if that's what she expected
>>35491761i dont think about jk rowling
>>35492652the point is that cis woman with klinefelter's don't exist because intersex disorders still only affect male or female bodies
>>35492652She expected nobody to come forward obviously However 4 years ago in Thailand there was a documented case of someone with predominantly XX chromosomes who also had XXY chromosomes https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32733741/
>>35492070>the sex class that produces large gametesSo according to her, CAIS women who have never even slightly been affected by testosterone are men.These women could inject gigachad levels of T and wouldn't masculinise one bit and have been assigned female at birth.(RIP CAIS FTMs)
>>35492719cais ftms are almost unheard of except (not so) fun fact: there are 2 recorded cases (that I know) of cais ftms.
>>35492703The line between male and female get blurry with intersex people:>5ARDAFAB, male puberty, grows dick at about 12 years old>PAIS/CAISHigh/normal (by male standards) T, AFAB and very feminine>46XX/46XY tetragametal ChimeraComplicated, might develop in weird ways or live undiagnosed.Can be assigned male of female at birth>ovotestis Make things complicated, might develop mostly maley mostly female or inbetween
>>35492780I personaly know a few CAIS (or high level PAIS) FTMs.That's nightmare fuel, T doesn't just not do anything for them, it actualy raises their E levels due to aromatase
>>35492783most of these conditions still have answers depending on what your criteria are. shit starts getting real crazy when you the stars align and someone is born with multiple of these conditions comorbid.
I think Rowling might have been right initially with this. Kline is traditionally male whereas swyer XXY is female. She'd have the tranny beat.But then her dementia set in and had to demand no Y chromosome at all. Rowling you're a complete fucking retard. I hope you soon end up in diapers like your mother.
>>35492839Thing is, your answer might change based on what criteria you set.Is it T levels?Is it gonads?Is it karyotype?CAIS has testicles (internal), male T levels and 46XY, but nobody in their right mind would call CAIS women men.Is it genitalia size?5ARD goes from getting assigned female at birth to having a dick.
>>35492898>swyer XXYSRY-negative Klinefelters?Has there ever been a dicumented case of that happening?
>>35491761You can be AFAB with Klinefelter’s syndrome, it’s been documented in literature before. Either as a mosaic or co-occurring with androgen insensitivity. Many have uteruses but no ovaries. What is concerning is that Rowling is coming for intersex people now, how tf did we get dragged into this bullshitt. Intersex
>>35493041she thinks that intersex people are on #HerSide
>>35492957Ovotesticular DSD with Klinefelter’s https://journals.lww.com/urol/Fulltext/2015/07040/A_rare_case_of_lateral_ovotesticular_disorder_with.22.aspx(Reproductively female given functioning ovary and presence of uterus)Androgen insensitivity and XXYhttps://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10449642/I could go on, there was a study that found that around 10% of OTDSD cases had an XXY karyotype although in that case it’s not called Klinefelter’s but primary ovotesticular presentation with aneuploidy t. Intersex and a grad student in medicine
>>35493082Intersex people aren’t on anyone’s side. We just want to be left tf alone— trans people or transphobes are welcome to stay fucked off in their own little worlds. But we will defend ourselves if people come for us, or use us in whatever retarded argument that actually has nothing to do with us as a people
>>35493132She's saying intersex people aren't real. You just have DSD and the terfs have that term trending now.
>>35493228Intersex is the social term, DSD is the medical term. It’s the equivalent of: an albino vs person with albinism or dwarf vs person with achondroplasia No intersex person denied that they have a DSD
>>35491761Xxy in women is Turner syndrome and absolutely something you can life a generally normal lifespan
>>35493333You’re retarded, Turner’s is 45x, go back to high school biology.XXY women either have AIS or Swyer’s or OTDSD
>>35492970Spoiler: this is what terfs/Rowling are working off. This was going to be her gotcha. But then she decided there can't be a Y chromosome at all.
>>35492703she didn't ask for cis women with klinefelter's, she asked for women with klinefelter'sklinefelter's means XXY chromosomes, so in asking for women with klinefelter's, she's implicitly accepting that people with XXY chromosomes can be women. Of course she'll just go back on it and say that you can't be a woman with a Y chromosome, but the premise of her original question accepts XXY people as women.
>>35493382wut
>>35493372>>35493382I guess the tons of cis women with XY just evaporate but I guess this was always their next target once they got bored with trans ppl :/Headfirst into eugenics— pin the blame for lgbt entirely on the existence of intersex people
>>35493408>cis women with XYif you mean CAIS, surebut I think the terminology kind of breaks down in cases like this. If rowling is talking about cis women or "real" women or whatever, she really just means XX chromosomes.
>>35493408it's fine, we win these.
>>35493333Sorry image didn't attach
This is not realWhy bother making up a fake tweet like this?
>>35493333>>35493443turner syndrome is 1 X chromosome, as the image says
>>35493446it's real
>>35493475Why isn't anybody talking about it then?
>>35493408See >>35493443Basically Rowling was gonna use this as a gotcha but then forgot about it. I suspect she has the NHS website open on her phone because she's using the PC (also anti-intersex but slightly nicer) term "differences of sexual development" which only NHS are using. Anyway she forgot what she was talking about and declared all XY male in the tweet to the tranny.
>>35493482we are talking about it?
>>35493408>Headfirst into eugenics— pin the blame for lgbt entirely on the existence of intersex peopleIt's those damn lesbians and their Charlie XCX utero audio
>>35493483Differences of sex development is actually accurate, don’t spread misinformation. We as intersex people coined this term in order to have a medical diagnosis that didn’t say “female/male pseudo hermaphrodite” or “true hermaphrodite”. DSD used as a medical term is completely fine with us— some like to use the term VSD (variations instead of differences) but it’s a small distinction. Intersex is a group/social identity that describes our life experiences, you can’t and shouldn’t be able to be diagnosed as “intersex”. It’s like how trans people identify as transgender but are diagnosed with gender dysphoria or gender identity incongruencet. Intersex grad student who is doing work to ensure ICD ditched all hermaphrodite codes for the much more accurate and friendly DSD
>>35493563Differences is the obvious PC stand in for "disorder" meaning you should have developed male/female but didn't. If you're telling me the truth, you realize this term is weaponized against you right?The trending term on twitter today is DSD and anyone identifying as intersex is deluded and that sex is strictly binary, not bimodal.
>>35493783Ok I have to correct you here. Intersex people still have either a gonadal sex and/or a phenotypical sex. Our bodies actually do function either largely male or largely female, with some key differences. We aren’t actually “hermaphrodites”. Even people with true hermaphroditism has one system that is dominant and another system that is atrophied. Does this mean people should be modified without their consent? Hell no— just because you don’t use your little toe don’t mean it should be cut off. Intersex is an umbrella, social term. It describes our experiences of being outside our expected sex or gender, and it helps us organize as a community. Even our activist organizations say that intersex is an identity. You simply cannot diagnose someone with “intersex” because it’s too vague. And usually diagnoses look like this (here’s mine for example):46XY DSD5-alpha reductase-2 deficiencyICD Q56 pseudohermaphroditismIt has to be this specific or else I don’t get the healthcare I need. Do trans people want to be diagnosed with “transgender”? I sure hope not.And people will weaponize whatever they want. Do you stop calling yourself trans because idiots throw around the t slur?t. Intersex
>>35493783>>35493838i feel like you two are talking past each other
>>35493978I was originally just clarifying what Rowling meant by "woman" IE: the right half of the chart. And then she forgot what she was talking about and demanded no Y chromosome at all. Regardless Rowling is using it in a demeaning way to put down anyone who might has klinefelter syndrome but identifies as female.
>>35494026The chart is medically inaccurate. XX/XY with SRY does not necessarily result in males. It is entirely gonadal presentation dependent. Mixed gonadal dysgenesis = likely male development and identification Ovotesticular DSD = likely female development and identificationThe chart is not accurate to real DSDs, and the person who made it is a psychotic intersex woman who detransitioned and is a jobless NEET who doesn’t even have a college degree.t. Intersex person in graduate school
>>35494215I'm just surmizing this was what Rowling's original bet was based off. Not whether it was accurate.
>>35494215>the person who made it is a psychotic intersex woman who detransitioned and is a jobless NEET who doesn’t even have a college degreehey don't be mean, there are lots of good jobless neets who don't have college degrees
>>35494354Jobless and degree-less NEETs shouldn’t be contributing to scientific debates in this way imo. If she wants to get involved in the research world, she should start out by working for a lab or co-authoring a paper and get some credentials on her way. Some things— no experience is fine. Medicine? You need experience to be able to make sweeping claims like this
>>35494377do you use twitter? cause you have this very twitter habit of just kind of giving a speech about something related to what was said but not really in response to it
>>35494406Don’t use Twitter, but I do a lot of work in academia. I publish papers for a career, so I guess I don’t talk to people much and have a habit of just writing essays to make or defend a point I’m also autistic
>>35494437ah, i can understand that. be careful though, that sort of thing can come across as aggressive to people.obviously, you were simply correcting that other anon on some facts, but it probably felt pretty combative to them because of the detailed explanation of background information and reasoning.that is not to say you should stop being so specific and clear, i'm just trying to explain potential pitfalls
or rather, one particular pitfall
>>35491761For 1 million dollars I'd inject a pregnant woman with the Klinefelter gene so her child would be born with it.
>>35494513I’m big on the accurate portrayal and communication of information— knowledge must be presented in as objective and as whole of a form as it can take— obviously acknowledging that we will never have the full or entire truth about anything but just a close approximate. In Harry Potter terms, I’m a die hard Ravenclaw in terms of my values, which is probably why I’m in graduate school. But maybe I can come across as aggressive to someone who is seeing this debate from an emotional and moral standpoint, when I see it more as an issue with misinformation leading to exacerbations of existing stigmas
>>35494574>In Harry Potter terms, I’m a die hard Ravenclaw in terms of my values, which is probably why I’m in graduate schoolare you like, begging to get made fun of?
>>35494603Do you see that em dash? That's an actual em dash, not just a bunch of hyphens. If that's not a "kick me" sign I don't know what is.
>>35494603No? I’m explaining why I will try to over explain rather than under explain, and correct all misinformation I see. I’m not an HP fan, but I know enough about pop culture from research into the matter to understand references. Even in graduate school/the medical field, understanding pop culture comes in handy as part of the package for manifesting adequate social graces. Social skills are unfortunately necessary for securing funding and research positions or getting corporate/non profit interest in valuable interest, so I have begrudgingly conducted my own research into how to obtain the social skills required to further my goals
>>35494635In valuable research, apologies for the typo
>>35494635well, many people perceive the series to be childish and silly to reference. making a comparison to harry potter will generally invite derision online.again, i'm just trying to communicate this information to you, not to argue. i'll even post my wizarding world of harry potter test results to be on equal footing wrt harry potter references
>>35494621It is standard practice to use the em dash instead of two hyphens when writing any type of academic paper, really, an introductory writing course in secondary school should’ve taught this along with citation formats. If I were grading a student’s paper as a TA, and saw excessive use of improper formats, I would dock points for it. Really, if one doesn’t speak or write properly by their 20s a remedial education may be in order.
>>35494688don't be fucking pretentious
>>35494688Really, if one uses phrases like "really, if one" on an online board, one really must realize that one is either trolling or massively inept at tone.I'm just joshing you though, you massive autist. You do you. Heck, I'd use em dashes myself if I felt comfortable about outing myself. And I'd set up the keyboard to make them accessible.
>>35494668It is understood, I will refrain from pop culture references in scientific debates in the future. Thank you for relaying this valuable piece of information to me, and helping me improve my social skills arsenal. I found the series to be puzzling. But I have been working with a physics grad to understand “magic” in a hypothetical HP universe as a force field that may be accessible to “magical beings” who have an extra pair of chromosomes (I am imagining 48XX and 48XY) that code for a specific enzyme or protein that allows for interacting with this force field. Possibly there is a “magic activation” gene (autosomal dominant) with similar structure to the SRY gene for testicular development, and one has to inherent at least one magic chromosome and one magic activation gene in order to be “magical”. This imo would explain the presence of both squibs (48XX or 48XY MAG-) and muggleborns (who had parents with the magic chromosome w/o MAG or vice versa). We already know that chromosomal aneuploidy is not necessarily a barrier to breeding and reproduction, as individuals with KS can reproduce. I’m now wondering about how the magic chromosomes may be structured— perhaps pure blood rhetoric does have a leg to stand on here, because having two pairs of chromosomes prevents potentially genetic instability of just having one (this is why males with XY have higher rates of X linked mutations becoming symptomatic disabilities). But inbreeding likely has more of a destructive effect on genetic stability, eventually resulting in MAG loss through genetic instability and mutations being kept within the family. Dunno it’s an interesting thought exercises
>>35494574>In Harry Potter terms, I’m a die hard Ravenclaw in terms of my valuesSpeak like a human being you freak
>>35494773many people write stuff like that into fanfiction, or even their own original works
>>35494635Autism speaks
>>35494688>dockhah fucking gay my penis is in yours and it grows till yours explodes faggot I win
>>35494787I feel like I do cool enough stuff in actual research to leave the sleuthing and hypothesizing officially to my papers, as there’s a lot of juicy information to decipher in intersex bodies. But in terms of enjoying sci-fi, I really enjoy hard sci-fi that works with existing theorems that I can cross compare existing papers to while reading. I’m not a big book reader, but biologically rooted fantasy (that uses hard bio and not hand wavey type of logic) is something I’d really enjoy. >>35494786I am a freak, and I have come to accept that this is my reality. Maybe one day I shall go to camp half blood and attempt to connect with Hermaphroditus, but I must admit my god parent must’ve been very active in reproducing as there are millions of us out here. >>35494800I am autistic, yes, but I am not involved in any organization about it
someone needs to drag her away from her posting device and make her take some nice long walks outside
>>35494852>biologically rooted fantasy (that uses hard bio and not hand wavey type of logic) is something I’d really enjoyyeah, and i'm saying you could create it.ask any artist and they'll tell you the main reason they make art is because they want the art they're making to exist enough that they're willing to make it themselves.
>>35494706Ah, what would you out yourself as? What does using an em dash signify other than proper grammar and format?>>35494880I’m not a good fiction writer— I remember the only B+ I ever got in uni was in a writing class that heavily featured creative writing (got all As otherwise). But if someone was open to writing out a biological fantasy, I’d be very happy to be the consultant and come up with biologically rational explanations
>>35494913ah, you've unintentionally turned it back on me lol. if i followed my own advice i'd offer to give you contact info and see if that could work out, but i'm pathologically lazy so i've never written and built the skills
>>35494944I’d be happy to be your friend otherwise! If you leave a discord I’ll add you
>>35494968no, i'm a terrible friend. sorry
>>35494913>What does using an em dash signify other than proper grammar and format?Your entire posting style screams "autist". It's the way I would have written 20 years ago, before my Normie Simulator was developed enough. Then again I still use capitals and periods, but I can't shake that, it would feel too bad.Not a single person even close to normal would use an em dash online in casual discourse. Trust me on this one.
>>35495015I would use em dash-- if my keyboard had a button for them.
>>35495098i got a captcha earlier that was SAW4, but i didn't screenshot it
>>35494913>Ah, what would you out yourself as? What does using an em dash signify other than proper grammar and format?If you post on reddit you're supposed to try and sound smarter than you are, so your writing style is a perfect fit there.If you post on 4chan you're supposed to try and sound dumber than you are, so you stick out big time.>>35495015Yeah I feel like an idiot using even basic punctuation here but I'd also feel too dirty not using it soo...
>>35494943It's really the opposite retard, you're claiming XX chromosomes are a necessary condition for being a woman and then doing mental gymnastics when it's pointed out it obviously isn't https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necessity_and_sufficiency>in theconditional statement: "IfPthenQ",QisnecessaryforP, because thetruthofQis guaranteed by the truth ofP. (Equivalently, it is impossible to havePwithoutQ, or the falsity ofQensures the falsity ofP.)
>>35495015I’ve been in boarding school since I was 12, so maybe it’s part of that too. It got hammered into me to write and speak properly. >>35495098You can set it in the settings>>35495133Don’t really post on Reddit either, I’m just on here occasionally because I find the threads intriguing, and I don’t have to self censor which I become tired of in my real life/career
>>35495157There is no one single way to write and speak "properly"; the idea that there's a right and a wrong way to do it and everyone should use the right way (obviously!) is itself one of those autistic bugaboos. Different contexts call for different registers.And now you've got me using a damn semicolon in public. Look what you made me do.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15755052/#:~:text=Background%3A%20Males%20with%20a%2047,of%20this%20phenomenon%20is%20unclearThere are legitimately women with klinefelters. It's incredibly rare. How do we find one and get them that million?
>>35495321How does that even happen
>>35496655kleinfelters isn't actually that rare. when you get klinefelters and by pure coincidence some other is condition you (may) end up a ks female.
>>35492839The problem is that most of these answers are inadequate. They're true if going by established definitions, but so useless that it throws the usefulness of the definitions as universal descriptors into question. I have 5ARD and live as male despite being "AFAB," but realistically I have nothing resembling a male experience both biologically and socially. If nonbinary were a thing people considered legitimate I'd realistically prefer that category, but it's too much headache given how unaccepted it is. Even conservatives tend to throw up their hands and have the position that people with certain intersex conditions should be able to just choose a gender as they prefer and live as that.
>>35497599the problem is she isnt, shes gatekeeping 5ARD as 'not women' because she's a psycho. It just boils down to her being a shitty person either way.It doesn't matter if you are AFAB and have no male experience because this new hardline flavor of conservatism is shifting it's attention to intersex people because of it's insane "ITS SIMPLE BIOLOGY" position and calling anyone with a Y chromosome male with no exceptions.I'm sorry, I really am, that the culture war is coming for you. But it is, it's here, and you will become a target. That's why we've been saying these are bad people for like the last 5-10 years as this thing has been heating up.
>>35495321now we just need to find a woman with it who is also willing to be outed as intersex to the entire world for the chance of getting a million, knowing that JKR will just move the goalposts
>>35491761The JKR defence squad added a FOUR different community notes
