>you should look into philosophy in general. Your thinking seems very black and white/essentialist/overly mechanistic which is normal for autists. but like u have to expand ur mind… im sure you hate postmodernism, but it offers a more accurate view of (what we can actually say) about reality.bitch I DID I studied philosophy in college and no I don't hate postmodernism. Yes I studied Derrida and Lacan and poststructuralism and deconstruction and took what they had to say quite to heart for some time but When you study philosophy for some time you begin to notice how much of it was utter dogwater that many philosophers today are pointing out how much confusion its generated over human history. Not to say that derrida and lacan are total dogwater I actually find a lot of what they had to say very helpful and illuminating, especially Lacan, but no matter what they can possibly say about signs and signifiers and symbolic order doesn't change the material reality that I can grab my stupid stinking dick and balls RIGHT NOW to prove that I am of the male sex
feminine men are not women ontologically, transgenderism is impossible
>>44008198base d gangle
>>44008198nonsense and wankeryepistemology can stay after the math thing but the rest of it goes right in the bina pile of category errors and broken questions
I wanna cut my nuts off
>>44009039you can get a professional to do that for you in thailand for like 1k
Posting Coalzu on this board ought to be an offense punishable by death
>>44009056rapes u
>>44009053i'm a broke bitch :<
>>44009039hegel spoke of this
*pulls shirt snifffsh* Ah, but zhis is exactly, how do you say, zhe ideological trap! You think you are making a simple point: "I can grab my dick and ballsh right now, therefore I am male." But no, no, wait a minute, wait a minute. *pullsh shirt again snifff*Nobody, not even Derrida at hish mosth delirioush momentsh... would claim zhat your genitalsh are merely a linguistic fiction. Zhe point ish not zhat material reality doesh not exisht. Of course it exishtsh! If I walk into a wall, zhe wall... winsh. Alwaysh.But zhe interesting queshtion ish: why do you feel compelled to appeal to zhis immediate material certainty? Why zhis triumphant geshture of grabbing zhe organ itself? snifff You are already within zhe symbolic order. Even zhe category "male" and so on ish not reducible to a piece of flesh. A cadaver hash a penis too, but we do not say it occupiessh zhe symbolic position of masculinity.Zhis is where Lacan remainsh usheful. Sex ish not merely. anatomy, nor merely discourse.... It ish a kind of... imposshible knot between zhe biological, zhe symbolic, and zhe fantashmatic. Zhe tragedy of contemporary debatesh is zhat one side saysh "it is all language," while zhe other saysh "it is all biology." Yet both are wrong! violent shirt pull snifff
>>44009332Fucking banger. I kneel.
>>44009332I'd wager that Zizek would win against a wall
>>44008198who cares what sex the organism you inhabit is? you are not the organism, you (as in the sentient being reading this) are part of the brain. it seems likely to me that there is a system of sex differentiation in the brain that goes wrong in transsexual people. so if i am my brain, and my brain is like that of a woman, then i think i am fundamentally a woman. i was just genuinely born in the wrong body.
>>44009808I agree that its likely an intersex brain issue but it still does not unfortunately change the body we got. We are male but not the same as cis men obviously and not the same as cis women either
>>44008198Nobody's stopping you from yeeting your balls, OP.
>>44009948you are your brain. your brain is like a woman's. you are a woman. i don't think it's any different from if you raised a cis child as the opposite sex. it wouldn't change who they fundamentally are. it would obviously have an effect on them, but they would still fundamentally be their gender regardless of the body they were forced to inhabit or childhood they were forced to experience. john money was a bastard but i think his experiments did demonstrate that much. the sex of the organism should be irrelevant, we are not the organism, we are a learning system that exists in service of but in its own right from the organism. a definition of man and woman that prioritizes 'neurosex' is better and better aligns with the social realities surrounding and lived experiences of transsexual people.
>>44010035What makes someone a woman in the brain? I see women behave like men and men like women frequently. And what constitutes what someone "fundamentally" is? Our sex is merely a descriptor of what we are physically, but has no direct or definitive bearing on what our personality is like. Socially that descriptor has many ideas and connotations attached to it unfortunately because of gender. It's like saying you have a certain organ on/in your body, that's about it. Trying to sweep that under the rug and erase that fact out of fear has never felt honest to me. Like trying to convince yourself and others you don't have a tongue when you do, then cutting it off and trying to convince others you were born without one.I'm not against trooning, changing gender presentation, pronouns, or being considered roughly the opposite gender in a social sense since gender is socially constructed. But still on that last point I don't think anyone will ever consider trans individuals to be in the exact same category as cis ones. Because there will always be that difference in sex and the experiences with it that form the basis of being trans at all. No matter how many years I think on this sex is a material reality and gender wise trannies are not quite the same as cissies. Not necessarily less or more, but different yes.
>>44010263Have you tried thinking less, being nice to yourself, and doing the things that make you happy and healthy?
>>44010263a womanbrain is a brain that makes my dick hard because im straight and whatever gets my dick hard is necessarily a woman
>>44010263i do not think it is a coincidence that humans have a tendency to split ourselves into social groups according to sex. i think this is an instinct within us, and i think that manifests as a certain feeling of the sex we are 'supposed' to be, the sort of body we are 'supposed' to have, and the social role we are 'supposed' to inhabit: a neurosex. there is good reason why the clinical definition of gender dysphoria does not heavily focus on personality traits, as you are correct that there is not a direct correlation there. the physical sex based definition is stupid because that's simply an irrelevant trait to shape our lives around, neurosex is a better differentiator. sex isn't more of a 'material reality' or more important than neurosex just because it's more immediately visible to us as fallible humans.
>>44010283sometimes
>>44009056I LOVE QWARZ!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>44008198if trannies cared to learn about intersex rights at all they would see where the "sex" conversation is going but they are too obsessed with gender and regard any discussions of "sex" and "sex traits" as transphobic, because it triggers their dysphoria. so they just go AHURDUR, GENDER IS ALL THAT MATTERS! SEX ISNT EVEN REAL! SEX IS TRANSPHOBIC! if you are not discussing sex and sex traits in a way removed from gender, you will soon be left behind.
>>44010343>the physical sex based definition is stupid because that's simply an irrelevant trait EVERY. FUCKING. TIME.
>>44009948YOU ARE RETARDED AND DON'T KNOW WHAT INTERSEX MEANS.>>44010035>the sex of the organism should be irrelevant>'neurosex' is better and better aligns with the social realities surrounding and lived experiences of transsexual people.YOU ARE ALSO RETARDED AND SELF-CENTERED. NOT EVERYTHING NEEDS TO CATER SPECIFICALLY AND ONLY TO YOU AND THE THING YOU'RE TERRIFIED OF.
>>44010263>I don't think anyone will ever consider trans individuals to be in the exact same category as cis ones. Because there will always be that difference in sex>No matter how many years I think on this sex is a material reality and gender wise trannies are not quite the same as cissies.Mainstream intersex rights includes separating "sex characteristics" from "sex".We are moving towards protection based on sex characteristics:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_characteristics_(legal_term)Eventually this will extend to protecting hons from discrimination on the basis of having male sex traits despite their female gender. Long term intersex rights goals also include the total removal of "sex" from public facing/identification documents, which would remove societal barriers from transgender people as well.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malta_declaration_(International_Intersex_Forum)>To ensure that sex or gender classifications are amendable through a simple administrative procedure at the request of the individuals concerned. All adults and capable minors should be able to choose between female (F), male (M), non-binary or multiple options. In the future, as with race or religion, sex or gender should not be a category on birth certificates or identification documents for anybody.
>>44009808>you are not the organism, you (as in the sentient being reading this) are part of the brain.you are retarded and completely out of touch with/dissociated from material existence and your body because it makes you feel bad.
>>44010792get a consistent ceremonial magic practice before posting this
>>44010689deluluthe trans position is that being trans is an intersex condition and transition changes your biological sex.
>>44010792am i wrong though?...
>>44012340you exploit and harm intersex people to feed yourself. you are an intersexist weirdo. you are what a terf is to trans people, but for intersex peopleand you willl be left behind and laughed at. >>44012463YES. YOU ARE 10000% WRONG AND A HARM TO INTERSEX PEOPLE BECAUSE YOUR DYSPHORIA WON'T ALLOW YOU TO ENGAGE WITH SEX, WHIcH IS A BIG DEAL FOR INTER-SEX. YOUR BRAIN IS NOT A SEX ORGAN.
>>44013639>YOUR BRAIN IS NOT A SEX ORGAN.Then why does orgasm take place there.
>>44013649You can argue any dumbfuck reasoning you want to cope; you will still remain wrong.The brain IS NOT A SEX ORGAN. IT NEVER WILL BE.When you insist on this bullshit to soothe your dysphoria, you COMPLETELY MISUNDERSTAND AND MISREPRESENT WHAT BEING INTERSEX MEANS. You RUIN intersex rights because you mistakenly think your FEELINGS are logic and you really like the FEELING of not being your biological sex BECAUSE YOU HAVE DYSPHORIA, WHICH IS A MISMATCH BETWEEN YOUR SEX AND GENDER.
>>44013687Homos and dykes are intersex of the brain too. It's just that nobody wants to acknowledge it.
>>44013639I don't really get what you're trying to say tbhon
>>44008198poststructuralism is so annoying, specially the ppl that have """read"""" works of this school of thought.queer theory is good to explain a lots of relations of power in society and how ppl relate to each other within it in regards to gender, but HOLY SHIT it only caused more harm than good in our "community" and made it hard to meaningfully organize and help our sisters in need.I'm so tired.
>>44013698Intersex has to do with SEX. As in conflicts between the SEXUAL ANATOMY. The brain is NOT A SEX ORGAN. You are abusive to intersex people. You are a bigot. You need to listen to minorities other than yourself for fucking once. .>>44013716THE. BRAIN. IS. NOT. A. SEX. ORGAN.Intersex has to do with sexual organs/sex chromosomes, not the brain. "Neurologically intersex" is incoherent. You might as well say people can be "neurologically diabetic", "neurologically pregnant", "neurologically menstruating", or have "neurological liver cancer". It is just incoherent and ignorant of the meanings of the words.
>>44009332kekbased.
>>44013731Nah.
>>44013744Cope retard that exploits, abuses, and skinwalks intersex people.You are the problem. You are a bigoted intersexist asshole. You only care about other peoples problems if they benefit you or can be appropriated. Get fucking help, narcissistic freak.
>>44010689>>>44008198 (OP) #>if trannies cared to learn about intersex rights at all they would see where the "sex" conversation is goingwe do, its queertards that ignore it and prevent any meaningful conversation abt that
>>44008198Lacan's idea of the ego-ideal and the signifier only reigns true in this pitiful board but it's indeed more complicated everywhere else
>>44013860This thread is full of coping trannies and the usual response to anything related to intersex. Allowing conversations about sex besides "sex doesn't matter, hudur" or "sex matters but only because trannies are actually all intersex tehe we're sooo valid" is NOT the norm in any trans space.
>>44013762bro go back to tumblr you retard. make some arguments, stop complaining like a little bitch. fuck off
>>44013884>>44013932Listen, I think you are very smart. You might actually make the world a better place, all it takes is one more argument on this board and you will achieve your goals.
>>44013907I don't use tumblr.You are the one that has made no arguments. "Nah" is not a fucking argument.
>>44013639>YES. YOU ARE 10000% WRONGbut... how? i am my brain. my consciousness is not stored in my toes, right? not in my heart, or my lungs, or my bones, or my genitalia either. it's in my brain.>BECAUSE YOUR DYSPHORIA WON'T ALLOW YOU TO ENGAGE WITH SEXi mean, i don't think sex like doesn't exist in any meaningful way. i'm just saying the sex of the organism is incidental and shouldn't be critical to defining me the person, my neurosex should.>YOUR BRAIN IS NOT A SEX ORGAN.sure, but it can and does sexually differentiate. i am not making the claim that a divergent neurosex constitutes an intersex disorder, only that man and woman should be defined on the basis of neurosex. what's wrong with that position in your mind?
>>44013949Can you go to walmart and start screaming "intersex people are oppressed like my pussy" and throw porcelain on the floor
>>44013949>"Nah" is not a fucking argument.It is though, stay mad. Nobody owes you a conversation. Or the time of day to listen to whatever comes out of your mouth. Get used to it.
>>44013948"Every time a minority complains or discusses their life, I will mock them to discredit them so I never have to feel guilty about my own actions!"Go say the same shit to the billion trannies bitching and theorizing on this board. Go tell that to the OP of this thread. You wont, because you only care about shutting down intersex people, because our power as queer minorities that legitimately bring questions to the meaning of sex terrifies you. You are terrified we hold more weight in this conversation. You are terrified we will side with a narrative that doesn't serve your dysphoria, and so you fucking hate us like the control freak xenophobe, in-group prioritizing narcissist that you are.
Ohoho someone's having a melty.
>>44008198i get what they are saying but i think they are wrong about post modernism and i get why you reject the relativity. i agree about >essentialist/overly mechanistic which is normal for autists.but its not just autists, its basically every english speaking person in stem subscribing to positivism in the same way both progressives and conservatives subscribe to neoliberalism and dont know it and consider themselves "non-idealological" anyway the opposite of mechanistic is dialectical, thats how you maintain objectivity. post modernism is too subjective and relative, its useless on purpose. your friend is ultimately no less of a lib than the mechanistic autist, they may be able to identify certain things better than the mechanist, but they dont have the ability to change them, and that(should be) the point of philosophy>>44009332zizek is a good path to figure out dialectics, but you gotta drop him in the end, hes just as much of a pomo lib afraid of change as the others
>>44013978>i'm just saying the sex of the organism is incidental and shouldn't be critical to defining me the person, my gender should.Like every other fucking tranny that gives zero fucks about anything to do with intersex past appropriating it into bullshit llike "neurologically intersex". YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT YOUR GENDER IDENTITY. Like I said before >>44010689>so they just go AHURDUR, GENDER IS ALL THAT MATTERS! SEX ISNT EVEN REAL! >sure, but it can and does sexually differentiate.The. Brain. Is. Not. A. Sex. Organ. There is no sex-exclusive brain shape. There are NORMS, but the brain is not an organ that exclusively appears in one se or the other, and no singular brain shape can be used to determine sex. You misrepresent all of this to cater to your stupid fucking dysphoria. Go to therapy and leave intersex people and our language alone. >i am not making the claim that a divergent neurosex constitutes an intersex disorder"neurosex" IS NOT A THING. The only use of this word is to point out IDIOTS LIKE YOU BEING STUPID.>The term "neurosexism" was coined in 2008 by psychologist Cordelia Fine. It refers to the use of neuroscience or brain imaging to justify, reinforce, or oversimplify traditional gender stereotypes.>>44014027CAPS LOCK IS CRUISE CONTROL FOR COOL. STAY MAD AND DYSPHORIC, LOSER.
>>44014007No, I will say the same thing to you. You are as irritating as the trannies you've complained about. Your behavior is making you sound more irrational than everyone else. You are throwing yourself into a perpetual cycle of "LISTEN TO ME". You only hold more weight in this conversation precisely because you are either irritating everyone else or they are laughing at you. How productive has this conversation been for you so far? Did you convince anyone yet?It's funny that you care so much about minorities as you utilize a clinical disorder as a negative word. Says plenty about your moral ideal for minorities, doesn't it?
>>44014093>STAY MAD AND DYSPHORICExcept I'm not dysphoric, because I underwent this treatment you see, and got cured.
>>44014093>no singular brain shape can be used to determine sexhttps://doi.org/10.1186/s13293-024-00657-5
>>44013982Yet you continue to reply and conversate!
>>44014186You're doing super well representing intersex people THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!
>>44014186<3
>>44014202oh... you are autisticcarry on
>>44014182Learn what "on average" means and how to read past the title of articles.Again: >There is no sex-exclusive brain shape. There are NORMS, but the brain is not an organ that exclusively appears in one se or the other, and no singular brain shape can be used to determine sex. You misrepresent all of this to cater to your stupid fucking dysphoria. Go to therapy and leave intersex people and our language alone.
>>44014198THANKS!!!
>>44014214Learn how to read past "On average" You can use a set of shapes to determine your gender on both your genitals and the morphology of your brain. This doesn't even conclude the validity of intersex people at all.
>>44014265Your sex *Excuse me, genuine mistake
>>44014265No, you really do need to listen to "on average" and stop being a willfully obtuse manipulator. None of those a sex exclusive. Those are AVERAGES. NOT exclusives.A male could have all of those physical brain traits, AND STILL BE MALE. AGAIN:>>There is no sex-exclusive brain shape. There are NORMS, but the brain is not an organ that exclusively appears in one se or the other, and no singular brain shape can be used to determine sex.
>>44014334You're telling me I have "redefined the words" and call me an "obtuse manipulator" as you shove the word "exclusive" in my mouth. You are schizophrenic. I never said it was exclusive, I said you can still use brain shapes to determine sexual characteristics. This is not difficult to understand.
>>44014093>Like every other fucking tranny that gives zero fucks about anything to do with intersexi feel like i give at least a couple fucks, i just don't see how my position is harmful. would you be okay with explaining at all?>YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT YOUR GENDER IDENTITY. and why do humans have a gender identity in the first place? because our brains sexually differentiate.>The. Brain. Is. Not. A. Sex. Organ. i heard you, i don't see how that's important.>There is no sex-exclusive brain shape.i agree, this is literally what i think the cause of transsexuality is. but i see what you're saying: that it's all variated and there isn't a clear distinction. however, i don't think it's fair to say that, just because with our highly incomplete technology for understanding an analyzing the brain we can't directly measure neurosex, that that then means it doesn't exist in the way i am describing. we knew autism existed long before we could see it on brain imaging. and neurosex is probably a spectrum in itself, there doesn't have to be hard and fast lines in the first place.>"neurosex" IS NOT A THING.why does every human society divide itself into distinct social groups based on sex? did we all just have the same great idea? why do transsexual people experience dysphoria? do you think we're just mentally ill? that 'go to therapy' comment did read a certain way, but i don't mean to impose an interpretation.>>The term "neurosexism"...who said anything about gender stereotypes? i don't think gender stereotypes are inherent, there exists an extremely wide variety of gender stereotypes across cultures. the universal thing is that a distinction is made and social groups are formed. i'm so glad you found a word that sounds like the word i'm saying that means a bad thing, we're all very impressed, but this is irrelevant.
>>44014391>I said you can still use brain shapes to determine sexual characteristicsWrong. A male could have the brain shapes you highlighted, yet still have 100% male sex characteristics. Brains CANNOT reliably predict sex. You are an intersexist and a neurosexist. All in defense of maintaining binary gender stereotypes. You will be left behind; the future of destigmitzation is sex. Trannies are screaming because their five minutes of fame are over and they're neurotically terrified intersex rights will undermine the comfortable palace they've built and challenges their endless ability to be seen as "the most oppressed person on earth" to get their way.
>>44014449>Brains CANNOT reliably predict sex.Pic.>All in defense of maintaining binary gender stereotypes.No. I am not defending binary gender stereotypes, I was offering a simple correction to you. Are you trolling?
>>44014435>i feel like i give at least a couple fucks, i just don't see how my position is harmful. would you be okay with explaining at all?See the picture on >>44014230 and read the definition of neurosexism ("It refers to the use of neuroscience or brain imaging to justify, reinforce, or oversimplify traditional gender stereotypes"). Trans people are DESPERATELY trying to re-link all of these traits together. Instead of de-coupling from the binary and allowing traits to exist in isolation, they focus on how possibly having ONE trait in common (the claim of "brain shapes") means their sex is binarily their gender. It is a cope for dysphoria and serves no one; it does not even serve trandgender people past a sort of self-harming coping mechanism. >there doesn't have to be hard and fast lines in the first place.YET THE TRANNIES KEEP INSISTING THEY ARE THERE LMAO>why does every human society divide itself into distinct social groups based on sex?Do you know how babies are made? Have every one of you forgotten what SEX is and does? >did we all just have the same great idea? WE ALL CAME OUT A FUCKING VAGINA AND SUCKLED A TIT. IT'S NOT HARD TO FIGURE OUT. >why do transsexual people experience dysphoria?VARIES BY PERSON. You are NOT serving transgender people if you think saying only trans people who have x brain shape are "really trans". You are setting up a BLEAK reality for self-identification. Again: self-harm cope for dysphoria, short sighted, emotionally driven.>who said anything about gender stereotypes?Blaming stereotypes associated with "gendered" behavior is a form of neurosexism. What you are doing was widely fought back against by feminists for decades until trannies in the 2010s started saying the same thing men used against women for years prior, as a means to validate themself/alleviate dysphoria/feel more valid.
>>44014488>I said you can still use brain shapes to determine sexual characteristicsWrong. A male could have the brain shapes you highlighted, yet still have 100% male sex characteristics. Brains CANNOT reliably predict sex.You will be left behind; the future of destigmatization is sex. Trannies are screaming because their five minutes of fame are over and they're neurotically terrified intersex rights will undermine the comfortable palace they've built and challenges their endless ability to be seen as "the most oppressed person on earth" to get their way.
>>44014586
>>44014586>looks at extremely significant metrics and calls it "unreliable" instead of admitting they were wrongSomething is wrong with you.
>>44014627>>44014650Tell me you didn't confuse fdr-corrected to mean "only 0.000000001 percent of women dont have this brain shape" instead of "this test was corrected to ensure the results were not a fluke; there was a 0.00001 rate of potential error" without telling me, lmao. That does nothing to change that these are AVERAGES and a not insignificant portion of the population WILL NOT adhere to them. EXAMPLE:Adult men are, on average, taller than adult women, and the difference is highly statistically significant. But if I tell you someone is 5'8", you cannot reliably infer their sex. There is substantial overlap between the male and female height distributions. A very small p-value can coexist with substantial overlap. FDR-corrected p < 0.001 tells you that the observed average difference between groups is very unlikely to be due to chance, after accounting for multiple comparisons. It does not by itself tell you how well you can classify individuals.
>>44014719I did tell you, I agreed it wasn't exclusive.
>>44008214name an immutable factor that makes someone not a woman
>>44014738Presence of testicles in absence of ovaries is the main decider of sexual fate. Of the primary sex traits/sex organs, the gonads (ovaries/testis) are referred to as the "primary sex organ" because they are the main deciding factor in sexual reproduction and sexed bodily development.
>>44014731Then what the fuck is even your point of bringing up the FDR? You just embarrassed the fuck out of yourself and will now lie about it.
>>44010342this
>>44014785nta btw>testicles in absence of ovariesballs and girlballs are the same tissue, which *normally* gets differentiated into one or the otherand ofc since sex differentiation goes wrong sometimes (it's amazing that it even manages to work well enough 99% of the time), you sometimes get ovotestes and other shit, even in what seems to be normie-ass trannoids. turns out a decent chunk of them have some intermeme shit going on below the neck too
>>44015303>balls and girlballs are the same tissue, which *normally* gets differentiated into one or the otherand almost every single tranny's balls are unambiguously male/fully testicular. >you sometimes get ovotestes and other shitI literally have this and it is extremely rare. It also lead to blatant anatomical differences because of the hormones secreted by the gonads being mixed just like the tissue. My hormone levels and sexed body/anatomy/sex traits reflect this. Trannies DO NOT HAVE THIS but are OBSESSED with appropriating this experience in spite of their 100% phenotypically male bodies. >turns out a decent chunk of them have some intermeme shit going on below the neck tooNo, they don't. Why the fuck can't trannies stop redefining the word intersex and skinwalking an experience they don't have?
>>44015366How do you think homos are physiognomically different if not for some underlying intersex-like condition? Why are their facial features objectively different from hets?
>>44015366>almost every single tranny's balls are unambiguously maleanecdata: one of the tripfags mentioned having the lil cancer balls, hope she dont get big C ofc>extremely rarewhat's the prevalence rate>No, they don't.nuh uht. cismoid straggot btw
>>44015381There are homosexual men who look completely normal. My partner is a cis male who looks very masculine and is into stereotypically masculine stuff, but is still sexually interested in men. There are effeminate "gay-coded" men who are still only sexually interested in cis women. You trannies are so obsessed with gender stereotypes and the gender binary it's insane. There can be multiple factors motivating someone's sexuality, just like there can be multiple factors motivating peoples gender identity. You guys sound like fucking nazis looking for a gay gene or something while discounting any aspect of the persons human experience/environmental factors/outside influences/culture/etc.
>>44015428>There are homosexual men who look completely normal.lol. lmao.
>>44008198>hear someone is studying "philosophy">it's always some gibberish(hegel) or existentialismwhy is dis
>>44008198wash yersell me lass
>>44015421>what's the prevalence rate"About 1 in 100,000 live births (0.001%)" and only a few hundred case studies.
>>44015504>The condition accounts for only 3% to 10% of all diagnosed Disorders of Sex Development (DSD), which collectively have a general global incidence of roughly 1 in 5,500 births10% of 1/5k DSDfags by the retro definitiontroids are 1/1kqed lotta troids are full on DSDfags, and most gender dysphorics are DSDfags with clinical amounts of brain DSDism and prolly some body DSDism beyond the sex differentiation machine being broke
>>44015444ricky martinpete buttigiegjonathan groffdan savagetom ford luke evansanderson coopercolman domingoAll of these are fairly average looking men. If hey had a wife and kids no one would assume anything of them. My partner also completely passes for "just a normal guy". You guys are obsessed with stereotypes and conformity to rigid roles. Building your own prison, lmao.
>>44015524There is no such thing as a "brain DSD".Disorders of sex development pertain to the reproductive organs. Even in cases like CAH where an enzyme anomaly is present, it is not considered a disorder of sex development unless the androgen levels were elevated enough to alter the development of the sex organs. Trannies do not have a disorder of their sex organs development, and the brain is not a sex organ. There are no "brain DSDs" because its as coherent as saying someone has "brain diabetes" or "brain huge penis".
>>44015649lol wrongDSDs are disorders of the sex development process in utero (and after). guess what gives you tranny brain?>CAHthe 95% lesbian disordernext up I'll put lesbianism due to high T due to CAH under DSDs too
>>44015602>sperg can't tell gayfacefigures
>>44015812Many women with CAH have normal sex organs/genitals. CAH is an endocrine disorder, not a disorder of sex development. If there is no disordered development of the sex organs, it is not classed as a DSD. Later onset versions like LOCAH are also not classed as a DSD. The CARES foundation (the biggest org for CAH in the USA) will not even work with researchers if they intend to label CAH as a DSD/intersex or associate it with such in any way, because this misconception is so culturally engrained. https://caresfoundation.org/research-research-requests/>CARES Foundation is the only organization in the United States dedicated to Congenital Adrenal Hyperplasia (CAH) research, education and support. Since our founding in 2000, CARES Foundation has donated hundreds of thousands of dollars toward CAH research.>CARES policy regarding research proposals>3) Proposed research study does not employ “DSD” terminology: CARES notes that CAH is sometimes referenced in conjunction with certain umbrella terminology that is found to be inaccurate and unacceptable to a majority of the CAH community. Any research supported by CARES must refer to Congenital Adrenal Hyperplasia (CAH) by said name. CARES does not participate in or support research that employs the term “DSD” to identify CAH or individuals affected by CAH.You are the problem in pic related.
>>44014560>See the picturei am for everything in that picture.>and read the definition of neurosexismi am not 'neurosexist', i am opposed to the use of brain imaging to reinforce stereotypes.>Trans people are DESPERATELY trying to re-link all of these traits together.how? what i am saying is very much trying to disconnect these traits: i am saying the state of my brain is disconnected from the state of my body, where a transphobe would say my genitals necessarily determine the kind of person i fundamentally am.>means their sex is binarily their gender.well, i think it probably is in my case because i am a binary trans person, but i have to wonder how closely you've been reading my posts because i stated in plain english that i think neurosex is most likely a spectrum. i think a nonbinary neurosex is absolutely possible.>It is a cope for dysphoria and serves no onei think it serves trans people, and frankly i think it serves intersex people. shifting the focus to neurosex gives people agency over their own bodies because, unlike what you keep implying i'm advocating for, i don't think you can stick someone in an mri and automagically determine it. the only way to have justice in my framework is for people to have agency over their own bodies and their own sexual development.>YET THE TRANNIES KEEP INSISTING THEY AREwell it's a good thing i'm not 'THE TRANNIES', isn't it? also did you just say tranny? you've been making me wonder but are you actually a transphobe? i know it's 4tran, but it seems a little low brow in this context.(cont.)
>>44015888>Many women with CAH have normal sex>lesbians>normal sexlmoa>muh tumblr feminist tier feefee-based definitions rantnah thanks im good, I prefer actual science
>>44014560(cont.)>IT'S NOT HARD TO FIGURE OUT.sex existing does not necessarily mean sex based social groups should exist. i don't think there's an obvious reason why the people who are able to give birth should live very different lives from the people who don't, yet that's how our species likes to do things. i think dysphoria itself is proof enough, frankly. take john money's experiments: how could these children develop dysphoria symptoms if not for information in their brain telling them the sex they're 'supposed' to be?>VARIES BY PERSON.says?>You are NOT serving transgender people if you think saying only trans people who have x brain shape are "really trans".i don't think that though, i just think that in the case of transsexuals the cause is a disordered neurosex.>You are setting up a BLEAK reality for self-identification.this is pure slippery slope, but the slope isn't actually slippery. acknowledging that the brain is separate from the body and advocating for the right of the person, the brain, over their own body and sexual development rather than letting the body take precedence does not in any way have to become government brain scans to determine who's a real troon. the entire point of this line of reasoning is to put control in the hands of trans people, to say that no you actually cannot tell what will be best for someone just by looking at them.>Blaming stereotypes associated with "gendered" behavior is a form of neurosexism.i don't understand how you're using the word blaming in this context. i don't think neurosex is responsible for gender stereotypes, it is responsible for the impulse to divide ourselves into these social groups and for the dysphoria humans feel when their neurosex and physical sex do not align.
>>44015940>cut organ off the sentence>see it fits my agenda now!!!!Can you do anything honest? All you can do is manipulate and deceive. >nah thanks im good, I prefer actual scienceThat is the biggest research organization of CAH. That is science, you dumbfuck. You just DO NOT care about the reality of people who have these conditions unless it serves your self-centered agenda, and you're willing to lie about it in the face of all reason because muh dysphoria.
>>44015923>>44015941you talk too fucking much while saying nothing. bunch of smokescreens and bullshit. not worth my time.last thing i am saying to your retarded ass: you are more than a brain. you are fucking retarded if you think all you are is a brain. you need to link "identity" to "brain" so you can feel more valid because you are mentally ill/retarded or something and skinwalk intersex people as a vehicle to enable whatever neurosis compels you to feel "identity" isn't good enough and dissociate yourself from the rest of your body onto your brain. genuinely something is fucking wrong with you if you think all you are is a brain and fixate on brains over the concept of identity because nooooo, gender identity has bad optics, i need to redefine NEW words to escape my body!!!you are retarded.goodbye.
>>44015970>>cut organ offhey I thot u werent a tranny>>44015970>your self-centeredno, I'm tranny-centered, as any good upper middle class white woman it is my duty to speak for and over the poor dumb individuals such as yourself and be the final arbiter of the oppression stack
>>44016071I never said I am not also a tranny. But my bodily experiences cannot be removed from my experiences, and having significantly mixed hormone production, sex traits, etc. has made my experience with being trans very different to where I cannot relate to or talk with most transgender people.
>>44016010>you are more than a brain.not really though. i mean, obviously my body affects my brain im literally living inside it and hooked up to it because my existence was evolutionarily useful to the organism, but i am also very much my own thing.>you need to link "identity" to "brain" so you can feel more validi link identity to brain because MY IDENTITY IS IN MY BRAIN!!!!>and skinwalk intersex peopleare you genuinely illiterate? i'll jog your memory.>>44013978>i am not making the claim that a divergent neurosex constitutes an intersex disorderplease learn to read before going on deranged transphobic tirades because you think we're out to get you when advocating for our rights.>whatever neurosis compels you to feel "identity" isn't good enoughit's not good enough to explain why i am and have been this way my entire life with no mechanism to cause or change it, it's not good enough to explain why john money's patients developed dysphoria symptoms. the neurosis is the very simple observation that the 'identity' way of thinking gained traction mainly because it makes things very clean and easy particularly for advocacy, and not because it's actually the best way of looking at the issue.>genuinely something is fucking wrong with you if you think all you are is a brainwhy??? you keep acting like this is a crazy perverse idea but have made no substantive points about it.>nooooo, gender identity has bad opticsi heavily dislike your tendency throughout this conversation to put words and ideas in my mouth, it's really insufferable.
>>44016102>my bodily experiences cannot be removed from my experiences, and having significantly mixed hormone production, sex traits, etc. has made my experience with being trans very different to where I cannot relate to or talk with most transgender people.based, that sounds like a perfectly understandable position and I'd even be interested in learning about some of the differences. I imagine some of them are like the different types of racism one gets when they're visibly other vs when something further down the line (name, way of speaking) betrays their Otherness
>>44016145I will gladly talk to anyone that actually is interested in the topic of intersex experiences. Most of it revolves around being confused about what was happening to my body and very ashamed of it and sort of sexually traumatized by being on display in a visibly "different" way (that is often considered freakish, gay, wrong, ugly, bad, etc.) while also not being able to understand exactly what was happening to me, why, or how to explain any of this to other people. This became even more complicated when transgender stuff started to peak culturally because everyone around me sortve turned retarded seemingly and obsessed with "gender" while I was really more dealing with "sex" without a strong sense of binary "gender identity".That was before nonbinary was really a thing and I was always pressured to be one or the other because there was no framework for anything else, they/them wasn't really a thing etc. If I tried to avoid being either, people would often decide for me (and then everyone would just go with what the other person said, and it would catch on), and even say things like I must hate myself so much to feel I am so inhuman that I don't deserve to be a girl or a boy. Then decide that I had the essence or vibe of one or the other and decide for me. Lots of weird behavior and comments from trans people I grew up with as a teenager too, heavy pressure to consider and present myself as transgender without room for my actual experiences, lack of any intersex peers, always getting lumped in with trans people who dominated every thought, conversation, wrongthink norms, etc.
>>44016322damn that does sound shitty as hell anon, I hope it's better for you nowadays. and thanks for sharing your experience, might also be useful as a way for some to hopefully treat other intersex peeps better
>>44016577One of the main differences I see in the way intersex people end up vs. the way transgender people end up, is intersex people more often come to the conclusion that we are very diverse and individualized and that nothing is innately wrong with us if we are healthyvs trans people tend to come to the conclusion that something is wrong with them that needs to be fixed/changed, in order to fit into one of the binary gender roles. intersex people are more likely to come to the conclusion of postgenderism, and you see this reflected in mainstream intersex rights stuff like the malta declaration. but transgender people will largely look at postgenderism as transphobic in some form; a threat to their existence, and demand we maintain the binary boxes and find some way to dissect everyone down to their "true" sex. intersex people are more aware we cannot be anything other than what we are, and we cannot be dissected down to one singular component while the rest is ignored or altered to fit binary definitions/gender roles.
>>44013639You harm intersex people like meyou are the exclusionary one
>>44016841cry and lie harder
>>44016850truth onlyno tearsonly dreams
>>44010689>if you are not discussing sex and sex traits in a way removed from gender, you will soon be left behind.You can't FOMO people into talking about large and small gametes it's never going to work
>>44016856
>>44016878its not about large and small gametes you strawmanning fuckwit
>>44016889I think skinwalkers are cool af, keep being a hater.
>>44016900nice cope, decepticon
>>44010689sex and gender are synonyms you delusional tranny
>>44016898You are not sufficiently removed from gender, start talking about real biological sex now or the zygotes will leave you behind
>>44016919The creator of the intersex flag and co-founder of the most significant global intersex organization, who also holds a PHD in bioethics, disagrees with you. Again: you do NOT care about intersex rights unless it serves your agenda. You exploit a minority group as a means to cope with your identity crisis.
>>44016990your gender is not valid no matter how much bunk science you invoke, troon
>>44016958https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_characteristics_(legal_term)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIT1z4DgWbk
>>44016817>vs trans people tend to come to the conclusion that something is wrong with them that needs to be fixed/changedanon are you not in favor of easy hrt access?
>>44017052How the fuck does that have to do with anything I said?
>>44017060it's just sort of reminiscent of the language anti-transition people use. "nooo your body is perfect you don't need to change anything hon!! <3" i'm not saying you necessarily think that way just trying to clarify.
>>44017078Congratulations on hearing intersex sentiments and reframing them as transphobic like every other fucking moron immediately does because "ooooh that sounds similar to something else, therefore it must be the exact same thing."Intersex people have a history of being told we are broken and in need of alteration. It is one of the biggest human rights issues for our community. I am sorry this makes you feel uncomfortable; that is not my fucking problem. Advocating that MY BRAIN IS INTERSEX SO I NEED HORMONES AND SURGERY is so insanely ignorant of intersex human rights abuses and history yet you fuckers REFUSE to see it. The notion that we are, as a category, inherently broken and need change IS BAD FOR US. Trannies want something to blame their identity on so they can feel they are broken when the answer is right there: YOU FEEL DISTRESS. YOU FEEL DYSPHORIA. THIS IS WHAT GETS INSURANCE TO PAY FOR YOUR SHIT. Intersex people CAN ALSO FEEL DISTRESS, FEEL DYSPHORIA, FEEL DYSMORPHIA.Neither of these mean that ALL INTERSEX PEOPLE need surgeries or hormones to NORMALIZE their sex traits to a binary state. It also does not mean ALL trans people want /need hormones or surgery. You fuckers are so blind to how you shoot your own community in the foot while gobbling up intersex people like its opium for your fucking dysphoria.
>>44017132but are you? anon i feel like you take everything way too fucking personally. no i don't think you're broken, yes i understand where you're coming from, that specific phrasing just set off alarm bells for me because it is a very common playbook so i was trying to understand better.>SO I NEED HORMONES AND SURGERYlike see this is what i'm saying, do you not think trans people need hormones and surgery?>Neither of these mean that ALL INTERSEX PEOPLE need surgeries or hormones to NORMALIZE their sex traitsi'm not advocating for that you fucking asshole, i'm advocating for bodily autonomy.
>>44017193>like see this is what i'm saying, do you not think trans people need hormones and surgery?oh my god why do you need everything repeated>It also does not mean ALL trans people want /need hormones or surgery. You fuckers are so blind to how you shoot your own community in the foot while gobbling up intersex people like its opium for your fucking dysphoria.>It also does not mean ALL trans people want /need hormones or surgery. You fuckers are so blind to how you shoot your own community in the foot while gobbling up intersex people like its opium for your fucking dysphoria.>It also does not mean ALL trans people want /need hormones or surgery. You fuckers are so blind to how you shoot your own community in the foot while gobbling up intersex people like its opium for your fucking dysphoria.
>>44017217if you have dysphoria you need hormones/surgery yes or no. hormones/surgery should be readily accessible to those who need it yes or no.
>>44017248>if you have dysphoria you need hormones/surgery yes or no.No. Hormones/surgery should be based on whether or not the person wants them. The standard model of care cannot be cookie cutter in this way. If someone has dysphoria it may be due to legal/social aspects rather than solely their body. People are individuals and their preferences may vary. IE: a "femboy" archetype may feel dysphoria, but this dysphoria may be individualized and what may resolve dysphoria in another (breast growth, genital surgery) may actually induce further dysphoria in this person because this is not actually the treatment they want. Someone else may already have a body they are happy with, may already pass as the opposite sex, etc. and only want legal/social changes without medical intervention. If the standard of care is body modification, minors may be pressured into "cures" that do not account for their individual preferences. >hormones/surgery should be readily accessible to those who need it yes or no.Body modification should be allowed to anyone who wants it. Modifying your sex traits is completely fine. If not being able to modify the sex traits is causing significant mental health issues, insurance should cover it as health treatment. Gender/Sex should not be on public identification documents and should not be at the forefront of culture in the way it is. Sex traits are observable but do not necessarily imply sex or gender that can be assumed based on them, and modification of sex traits should be permissible in any configuration the person wants or needs. This extends past gender and into any cosmetic/body procedure; these are permissible, and if not having them causes mental health issues such as significant distress/dysphoria, it becomes a medical issue -- be that sex traits, weight, your nose, your teeth, whatever.
>>44017328>No. Hormones/surgery should be based on whether or not the person wants them.anon!! anon. anon anon anon. you understand that a person needing a treatment and the government like forcing them to get that treatment are two VERYYY different things right? because i feel like you're treating them as the same thing and i really don't fucking get it. OBVIOUSLY no one should be made to get a treatment they do not want, oh my god, but it must be acknowledged that the treatment is a need and not *just* a want.>If someone has dysphoria it may be due to legal/social aspectsthis is literally a transphobe talking point.>IE: a "femboy" archetype may feel dysphoriano femboy except hrt repper types who should be transitioning meets the clinical definition of gender dysphoria. i feel like you are confusing dysphoria with gender related discomfort or nonconformity of any kind when dysphoria is a very specific thing.>If the standard of care is body modification, minors may be pressured into "cures"no anon, trans kids may get the treatment they fucking need and want because it's not being treated as some wishy washy 'ohhh well lets just wait until you're an adult and see if your feelings change little timmy' bullshit. nobody should be forced to do anything, oh my god why do you keep thinking i want to force people to get treatments. i understand that you're speaking as an intersex person and obviously there is a history of that for intersex people, but i am every bit as opposed to it as you are and it's so obnoxious how you keep assuming i'm not.>Body modification should be allowed to anyone who wants it.fucking thank you, that's all i was asking and you could've just said that instead of being combative and insufferable about it.>Gender/Sex should not be on public identification documents and should not be at the forefront of culture in the way it is.i can see why this goal feels noble to you, but like... all i can really say is good luck with that.
>>44017469> you understand that a person needing a treatmentNot every person NEEDS that treatment and it is insanely selfish that you keep trying to insist this. People are individuals and can decide for themself.Stop misrepresenting what I said and feigning ignorance, retard. >this is literally a transphobe talking point.No, its fucking not. Some people only want legal/social transition and do not want hormones or surgery. People ARE INDIVIDUALS AND CAN DECIDE FOR THEMSELVES. >no femboy except hrt repper types who should be transitioning meets the clinical definition of gender dysphoriaYou are an awful person. All sorts of dysphoria exists for all sorts of body configurations. Let people decide for themself you binary gender obsessed copelord. >when dysphoria is a very specific thing.Dysphoria is distress. That is the definition of the word. If someone experiences dysphoria over their sex traits (IE: masculinization such as body/facial hair growth, hair loss), that is still a valid feeling and desire. A person can wan to not have significantly masculine sex traits, feel distressed by the development of them, but not want strongly gendered sex traits of the opposite sex either. I was primarily distressed by the development of both masculine and feminine secondary sex traits when I went through puberty; I would have been better treated by allowing me to suppress both breast growth via means femboys/alternate transfems use (IE: SERMs that inhibit breast growth, DHT blockers that prevent masculine hair growth/loss) than by wholly transitioning me to one binary sex stereotype or the other. You have no respect for anything but gender stereotypes and rigid adherence to binary ideas about sex and gender. You are outdated and will be left behind.>i can see why this goal feels noble to you, but like... all i can really say is good luck with that.PREDICTABLE RESISTANCE TO FREEING US FROM GENDER/SEX BINARY BULLSHIT. TRANNY MOMENT.
>>44017584>People are individuals and can decide for themself.yes, yes they can. like okay anon, put it this way: a cancer patient might need chemotherapy, but they very much can still decide for themself whether they want to do that. people needing treatment and people deciding for themselves what treatment to get are entirely compatible ideas.>No, its fucking not.yes it is??? "nooo silly troon you don't need to transition you just have dysphoria for social reasons!!" is extremely common to hear from transphobes.>Some people only want legal/social transition and do not want hormones or surgery.yeah, like people without fucking dysphoria.>People ARE INDIVIDUALS AND CAN DECIDE FOR THEMSELVES. I AGREE MOTHERFUCKER!!!! i've only said as much a dozen fucking times.>All sorts of dysphoria exists for all sorts of body configurations.that's great, i'm talking about GENDER DYSPHORIA as in the thing in the dsm 5 the thing trannies experience the discomfort with your sex characteristics you dumb belligerent cunt.>Dysphoria is distress. That is the definition of the word.GENDER DYSPHORIA oh my god are you intentionally missing the context clues that that's very fucking obviously what i'm talking about?>You have no respect for anything but gender stereotypes and rigid adherence to binary ideas about sex and gender.the fuck i don't. you're just so fucking defensive about your very weird specific ideas that gender basically isn't even real that you read me trying to carve out some room in your interpretation for transsexual people as an attack on everyone who's not transsexual. not everyone is, not everyone has to be, people should have agency over their bodies regardless of if they are.>PREDICTABLE RESISTANCE TO FREEING US FROM GENDER/SEX BINARY BULLSHIT.it's an intractable part of the human experience anon. obviously not everyone falls into the binary and that should be acknowledged/respected, but most people do have a sense of gender that they do care about.
>>44015464No it was the opposite where I studied (American university)It was mostly analytic philosophy
>>44017910>a cancer patient might need chemotherapy,Not all cancer patients need chemotherapy. Treatment plans are highly personalized. You have no idea what you are talking about, ever, about anything, beyond making huge generalizations and stereotyping people with the shallowness of a child's view of the world. >"nooo silly troon you don't need to transition you just have dysphoria for social reasons!!" is extremely common to hear from transphobes.Someone saying I DO NOT WANT SURGERY OR HORMONES, BUT DO WANT TO CHANGE MY SOCIAL/LEGAL SEX IS NOT TRANSPHOBIC HOLYSHIT HOW ARE YOU THIS MANIPULATIVE AND DUMB. A trans person who wants that IS NOT TRANSPHOBIC JUST BECAUSE IT REMINDS YOU OF SOMETHING YOU HEARD SOMEWHERE ELSE. You are damn near fucking illiterate. > i'm talking about GENDER DYSPHORIA as in the thing in the dsm 5 the thing trannies experience the discomfort with your sex characteristicsI just gave you an example of a nonbinary experience of dysphoria/discomfort with your sex characteristics you fucking illiterate retard. You do NOT care about anyone gender nonconforming. You are OBSESSED with gender conformity and maintaining oppressive binaries at the expense of EVERYONE BUT YOUR ERRONEOUS ASSUMPTION THIS HELPS TRANS PEOPLE BECAUSE ALL YOUR THOUGHTS ARE AS DEEP AS A PUDDLE TO THE POINT YOU HARM BOTH YOUR OWN COMMUNITY AND INTERSEX PEOPLE.https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8363999/
>>44010708NO XIR YOU ARE RETARDED AND DON'T KNOW WHAT INTERSEX MEANS
>>44020115
You people are retards
>>44020125there's nothing wrong with NO U
this angry interanny is v malebrained
>>44020247>if you are assertive or angry you must be a man!>everything is gender binary and gender stereotypes and adherence to gender norms in trannysylvania !you will be left behind and mocked.
>>44014836To tell you that you can still reliably predict sexual characteristics using brain shapes, even if there is a 0.1% chance that it'll be wrong. That is it. It's a simple correction>I must be so willfully obtuse and manipulative right now
>>44020714>>44010689You are a STATE ACTOR trying to derail a productive conversation on /tttt/ and we WILL ignore everything you say. The power of trannies compel you, STATE DEMON. Fuck off from my computer screen and NEVER come back!!! The adults are talking here. We WILL start telling everyone to install 4chanX and mute intersex flags in this thread. You will not invade our fetish with yours, dear STATE ACTOR. We WILL learn to clean up the piss ourselves, and your words will start having no effect.DO NOT ENGAGE WITH STATE ACTORS.DO NOT ENGAGE WITH RETARDS.DO NOT ENGAGE WITH DERAILERS.>STEP 1https://github.com/ccd0/4chan-x>STEP 2Click the dropdown next to the post ID > Filter > Flag>STEP 3Profit. EVT SHVT VND GVT FVLTVRVD>ResponseFILTERED. BYEEEE! BYEBYE! BYEEE!
>>44021938HOLY SHIT LOOK HOW MUCH BETTER THIS THREAD LOOKS GUYS!!! THANK YOU, ANON! I WILL START FILTERING INTERSEX PEOPLE NOW!
>>44021938>>44021974it actually does look a lot better wtf
