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>>23284731
Continuing from the previous thread: why do the people of Westeros favor swords in martial combat?

For the context of why I'm asking this: Recently, I've gone on a history binge, where I studied plate armor, and apparently full plate armor made the wearer nigh invincible everywhere, save the joints, the visor, and the crevices behind the armor.
Swords apparently were nigh useless versus armor unless you were half swording or stabbing at an extremely hard to reach weakpoint like the armpits or the groin. Moreover, blunt weapons like warhammers, halberds, and maces were apparently preferred to swords because of their ability to deliver concussive damage through the armor.
So with all of this in mind, why does everyone in ASOIAF use swords in battle, especially when plate armor is common and a hardcounter versus it.
How are people like Arthur Dayne, Jamie, Barristan, Robb, Blackfish, The Hound, The Mountain etc. able to be such killing machines on the battlefield with swords? Shouldn't they be struggling to take down even one guy in plate armor?

>>23284744
They have magic swords made of magic material

>>23284493
I don't think i hate any POV character but i find hard to believe Arya is one of the more liked ones, its probably derivative of the show and Maisie Williams

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>>23284769
>They have magic swords made of magic material
Only the wealthy elite like Arthur Dayne and Ned Stark do. Not even Barristan, Jaime, The Hound, The Mountain, and Blackfish etc. have Valerian steel swords, and yet they still prefer the sword to any other weapon.
I literally don't get it. Even in the official art, you have Rhaeghar charging Robert with a sword. How is Rhaeghar even supposed to hurt Robert if he's in full plate armor and Rhaeghar has a normal sword?
Look at pic related for example. What the fuck is Rhaeghar even doing here? His sword is gonna bounce off of Robert no matter where he swings

>>23284795
...you realize that the same people with the magic swords are the ones in full plate right? Everyone else is wearing chainmails and lacquered stuff to cover their torsos and basically nothing else.

>>23284839
>...you realize that the same people with the magic swords are the ones in full plate right?
Jaime Lannister does not have a magic sword.
Rhaeghar Targaryen does not have a magic sword.
Barristan Selmy does not have a magic sword.
The Hound does not a have a magic sword.
The Mountain does not have a magic sword.

My point is these guys DONT have MAGICAL swords, but they still prefer to take swords into battle, even when they're fighting against other dudes in plate. Robert vs Rhaeghar and Ser Duncan vs Lyonel Baratheon are two great examples of this, in both cases, the nobles are in full plate and using NORMAL swords.
>Everyone else is wearing chainmails and lacquered stuff to cover their torsos and basically nothing else.
And I understand this. Using a sword in this framework makes sense. I just don't understand why they're using it versus plate armor as well.

>>23284913
>And I understand this
You clearly don't if you would pick a hammer to go to war instead of a sword;
Why would you cite 4 of the best fighters in the series and ask why THESE people would choose a weapon that allows for a greater display of said skill? Moreover why would you choose a weapon whose effective range cover 2% of all the people you are ever going to face in battle.
>but my 1v1
Situational and even then, most fighters are going to stick with what they know best.
All of this and i haven't even touched the shields that accompany said swords... a simple steel rotella would destroy any hammer user.

>>23285112
>You clearly don't if you would pick a hammer to go to war instead of a sword;
I would because 1 hit of the warhammer is gonna kill or knock someone out not in armor, and 2-5 hits is to the head is gonna put down a knight in full plate from a concussion or internal bleeding
>Why would you cite 4 of the best fighters in the series and ask why THESE people would choose a weapon that allows for a greater display of said skill
Because it doesn't make any sense. Plate Armor hardcounters the fuck out of swords
>Moreover why would you choose a weapon whose effective range cover 2% of all the people you are ever going to face in battle.
A Warhammer, halberd or poleaxe is still gonna massacre people, armor or no armor.

>>23284795
>that nigga had no chance

>>23284744
because a sword is the most effective and versatile killing weapon

maces and halberds use more energy per kill and work best in certain situations (4 guards on a gate with spears, baratheon the chadslayer)

plate is protection against plebs but a more skilled guy with a blade is going to run up and cut something vital pretty quickly

>>23284744
I never got the impression that any other people were armored outside of nobles, just like irl, common people in Westeros can't afford armor because it's too expensive. George actually writes about this in the Dunk and Egg novellas. And in asoiaf he does write his battles with armored fighters just as you mentioned, with characters going for the weak points in armor, and I think one character does half sword in a fight but don't quote me on that bit. So just like irl swords would be perfectly fine in most combat situations, and swords just simply look impressive or pleasing, which is one of the main reasons people love them.

>>23285119
Anon high class nobles were the only ones who could afford plate armour and they're also the ones you want to take alive to ransom for money.
So the sword lets you kill small folk while also not being a threat to your fellow noblemen who is also trying to take you alive so their fights end with wrestling/pinning or just surrender as opposed to sincere fights to the death. Thats the ideal anyway grrm doesn invert it with tyrion having a flail killing northmen in that battle etc.
Also swords are the weapon for knights, its apart of what everyone thinks about and core to their idenitiy, you are knighted with a sword, people with famous/ well made swords are knights

>>23284744
>>23284795
>>23284913
>>23285119
Swords have been meta for thousands of years for a reason you dumb retard, on top of being unexpensive they are the most versatile weapon, period. No, a knight would not exchange his trusty blade for a hammer because it "makes sense" in your autistic head. If you trained karate your whole life, you don't start doing tae kwon do backflips because the situation calls for that lol

this conversation makes it seem like Robert specifically chose a warhammer so he could cave in Rhaegar's chest.

>>23285414
Exactly, its nonsense. Robert won because he was better is that simple.

>>23284731
fat pink masts jutting into myrish swamps until her cunt became the world while nuncle broke his fast on black bread, bacon burned black, and mulled wine while around him the planks of the ship groaned like a fat man taking a shit and in the privy the princess cursed as she shat but the more arbor gold she drank the more she shat until she was shitting brown water and nuncle smirked and bit into a lemoncake while capon-grease dripped down his chin onto the nipples of his breastplate and the boiled leather of his jerkin for did she not know words are wind and winter is coming and a lannister always pays her debts and you know nothing jon snow and dark wings bring dark tidings and oh my sweet summer child this is nothing but a mummers farce and she could be fucking lancel and moonboy for all nuncle knows and stick them with the pointy end but where do whores go and the night is dark and full of terrors but Nuncle is the blood of the dragon and the north remembers

>>23284744
because martin doesn't give a shit that full plate armor was a late military development that lasted only a short time before being phased out after the invention of gunpowder weaponry

>>23285428
now do one of these with tolkien

>swing your heavy ass war hammer
>miss
>get attacked when “reloading” and vulnerable

>thrust with long ass spear
>miss
>attacker gets close enough that the spear is useless

The sword is the most versatile and effective weapon. Period.

>>23285451
And the ship went out into the High Sea and passed on into the West, until at last on a night of rain Frodo smelled a sweet fragrance on the air and heard the sound of singing that came over the water. And then it seemed to him that as in his dream in the house of Bombadil, the grey rain-curtain turned all to silver glass and was rolled back, and he beheld white shores and beyond them a far green country under a swift sunrise

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>>23285392
>So the sword lets you kill small folk while also not being a threat to your fellow noblemen who is also trying to take you alive so their fights end with wrestling/pinning or just surrender as opposed to sincere fights to the death.
Okay, that makes a lot more sense. Swords to cut down the peasants and the lower class. And swords to fight your fellow noblemen without killing them, only incapacitating them for ransom
>>23285411
>Swords have been meta for thousands of years for a reason you dumb retard
Spears were the meta actually bro. The Greeks used spears, the Persians used spears, the Romans used spears, and the late middle ages favored spears (Swiss Mercenaries, Knight / Heavy Calvary, Winged Hussars, Landsknechts etc.).

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>>23285457
>swing your heavy ass war hammer
bro they weighed less than 5 pounds
>miss
you can stab with a spear multiple times in a second bro
>attacker gets close enough that the spear is useless
doesn't really work when you're in a spear formation with a hundred other dudes. And If it's a 1v1 duel, then the spear user would drop their spear and switch to another weapon if their attacked closed the distance.

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Threadly reminder that Brienne canonically has a massive, furry bush between her legs.

>>23284744
Ignore all the retards who responded to you. There are only two possible reasons. One being swords are "le cooler" than polearms, which would be the primary weapon of the average knight. The other is that George is just ignorant of medieval warfare (possibly because what was thought to be correct when he started writing the books was wrong don't know). It's the same reason knights in Westeros not only fight with arming swords (which George erroneously calls "longswords"), but also shields when the use of shields while wearing plate mail was eschewed because a shield didn't provide any particular protection your armour didn't. So wielding a two-handed weapon became more practical, and even their sword sidearms, the longsword, was two-handed.

Realistically the only character who could conceivably get away with it is Gregor who both wields a two-handed sword that is six feet long and also has superhuman physical strength.

>>23285411
Swords in the vast majority of world history were primarily a sidearm. The only notable exceptions I can think of are Rome, the Landsknecht mercenaries, and the Aztecs if you consider the macuahuitl a sword.

projectiles are the meta and correct answers arent getting replies
peace

>>23284784
I really disliked Arya in the show solely because of her ugly fetal alcohol syndrome face, it was just so annoying to look at. As for the books I found Arya chapters to be boring, but after seeing the show i appreciate them more because I can have Arya's content without having to watch Maisie's downie face

>>23285428
only thing left out is mentioning she was "five-and-ten" when all this happened

>>23284744
Because even in the age of plate armoured not everyone was running around in those fully articulated, perfect coverage sets you see in museums. Martin makes a point to sometimes mention knights in mail or brigadines. Westeros is 13-14th century. Not everyone had full head to to plate, and even those who did might not have had the versions perfected in later centuries.

>>23284744
>>23284795

Because GRRM didn't know this info.

>>23286347
I'm currently in the first book and both Arya and Bran chapters are kinda boring. Does it get better?

>>23286548
depends on what you enjoy. I'm on book three right now and they are alright enough for me to not want to just skip them.
I don't recommend skipping even if you dislike them though, because they still give some interesting worldbuilding and useful info here and there.
All in all, you'll have to see for yourself.

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>"Once, in the halls of the Red Keep, Daella had encountered a prince from the Summer Isles in his feathered cloak, and squealed in terror. His black skin had made her take him for a demon."

>>23284744
ASOIAF is not actually realistic at all. You barely have to scratch the surface to realize that.

>>23285587

I hope it looks like a beautiful golden forest that I would love to explore and get lost in

>>23284744
Because swords are cooler and martin didn't know or care about that info. Any other answer is cope.

>>23285411
>>23285243
>>23284744

Swords are just cheaper and much more easier to mass produce. I think Robert picked a warhammer for his fight with Rhaegar because he really fucking despises the guy and wanted him to suffer as much as possible before dying giving him a slowly and mkre agonziing and painful death a sword death woudl have been much mkre quick and easy way but Robert wanted Rhaegar to suffer. Even if Rhaegar was the better swordsman which we all know he wasn't Robert had size advantage in battle over him it would have been a Bobby B victory no matter what was brought to the fight

>>23284744
You are wrong. Swords were the best weapons for armoured duels. They're perfect for getting in weak points and natural gaps in plate. They're the perfect weapon for grappling as well. Maces are a very specialist weapon, not effective in what you claim, and were never used in duels.

>>23284784
I like her pretty well in the books. I find her arc to be pretty interesting, especially in ACOK where she's just barely surviving. I did hate her TV version, tho. In the book she's a bratty, difficult girl to work with while on the show they made her into this le badass girl assassin who had the right clever comeback for literally every word thrown at her. It was so transparent that she was a favorite among the writers. I dunno, her character was just not well done on the show.

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>>23284744
Martin makes regular swords capable of slashing through plate when it's convenient, Bronn's duel in the Eyrie being the most glaring example. He slashes parts of the armour off and goes through some. It's all about what's dramatic. Plate is uncommon too so maces don't have as much purpose apart from when GRRM likes the aesthetic.

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>>23284795
Rhaegar probably fought with a spear.

Is anyone a fan of the 'Aegon conquered Westeros because he foresaw the long night' retcon?

>>23287668
I think it was meant to retcon s8's "a Song of Ice and Fire" twist and make Rhaenyra seem more like a main character instead of a dumb ape. I'm not a fan of it since the Targaryens did fuck all to respond to the prophesy and let the Night's Watch fall to pieces during their reign.

>>23287668
No, it's really bad and really dumb. I don't know why GRRM is okay with it

>>23284795
This was the very first thing of Game of Thrones I ever saw as a kid: I printed it off and hung it on my wall because "Evil Demon Knight fighting Good Knight" looked cool to lil me.

George R R Monks, you are all stupid Suckers...
I think you are waiting on WINDS OF WINTER , I've heard some news that it should be released on May 2045...But,I know, it's so good that it must be
state of the art in the year 2050...
WINDS OF WINTER IT WILL NEVER BE RELEASED!!!!
LONG live FRODO and all his friends...

>>23287668
it's incredibly retarded

>>23287759
>I don't know why GRRM is okay with it
money

>>23287759
Because HOTD is part of the GOT canon instead of the book's. Unfortunately Dunk and Egg will probably also include these kinds of retcon

>>23287877
God i hate retcons. They fucking suck.
They ruined WoW lore

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>Oh, I'm a maid, and I'm pure and fair!
>I'll never dance with a hairy bear!
>A bear! A bear!
>I'll never dance with a hairy bear!

>>23287914
lmao

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>>23287785
>I printed it off and hung it on my wall because "Evil Demon Knight fighting Good Knight" looked cool to lil me.

still looks cool to adult me

>>23287759
>I don't know why GRRM is okay with it
Pretty much every writer that sells their novels to television or movie studios have to reconcile with themselves that any live action or animated works are separate entities from the books. There's no way to keep things 1:1 between the mediums. Most accept it and then some don't, like Alan Moore who seems like he'd stab any Hollywood writers that worked on an adaptation of his work.

>>23288078
I wish I still had it.

>>23287668
>>23287759
>>23287831
>Q: And do you find now that as you're writing, that when you see the characters in your mind's eye you're seeing the characters from the tv show, the geography with the locations that they've used in the tv show?
>A: Nope. I think, i understand that process and i know that as probably already happen for many many millions of viewers and fans mhm... but i don't think it happens, if you really know a book then you have your own images in your head and seeing a movie or a tv show doesn't displace them (...)

source: https://youtu.be/JKN-UtCLaeE?si=QMDzfAumqxvqYkDy&t=123

>Q: Fire and Blood is strongly informed by the biases of archmaester Gyldayn and Mushroom who recount these events, do you consider HOTD to be a companion piece of the book that shows the true nature of events as they actually happen or will only you ever know the truth?
>A: Well how meta do you want to get? I mean there's no truth i make all these stuff up (...) what is the truth? Will we ever know the truth of Hannibal or Spartacus as in David's novel, will we ever know the truth of what happened at the black dinner of scotland (...) The truth gets obscured mhm, so i say with kipling there are 9 and 20 ways of constructing tribal lays and every single one them is right.

source: https://youtu.be/7R4c_2uaxT8?si=B48wCpsRhlHvAKGV&t=601

tldr; different continuities

>>23285350
Dunk and Egg is a gem BTW. It's so good to read, simple but loaded with world and adventure.

>>23287785
so real

>>23287668
I thought Aegon's prophecy was just something he had after he conquered Westeros, if they decided to make it his whole reason for the conquest that's genuinely fucking stupid for a variety of reasons and makes HotD infinitely worse off.

Anyone know of any decent fanfics or fan writings set outside of Westeros or of the more esoteric parts of Essos? I'd like to see some interpretations of Norvos or YiTi even if its subpar slop

>>23284731
Elden Ring doesn't even have elves

>>23289049
https://youtu.be/1Phh5AS3uMY?si=nKpYpASyz8jAZ1aC&t=161

>>23288738
tldr: money

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Should I bother reading this series when:
A. The show soured me on it and
B. He's likely going to die before he gets to finish writing the damn thing
Despite A and B I do still find it interesting but not enough to blue ball myself on it if we're never going to be able to say it was completed. Consider me blackpilled after Miura died before Berserk was completed.
Vaguely related attention-grabbing image so you will reply.

>>23284744
> why do the people of Westeros favor swords in martial combat?
There is no shortage of people using weapons other than swords.

>when plate armor is common
Not that many people in Westeros wear full plate - it's Lannister-tier expensive, rather exhausting to wear for extended periods of time and is a massive logistical hindrance, as you need to take it off, put it on, maintain it, repair it etc, which automatically means a squire or two occupied entirely with BREASTPLATE STRETCHERS and not much else. Many people who can wear simply don't for a lot of the time due to how inconvenient it is to wear it all the time.

Consider the Battle at the Tower of Joy. Ned and his companions would not wear full plate simply because they rode hard towards the Tower in great haste - they could not afford losing time to oil and pack great suits of armor and ride slower with that extra weight and/or a gaggle of squires. They literally just grabbed their swords and fresh horses and rode day and night for their goal. At the same time, the Kingsguards at the Tower were sitting on their asses in stationary defense, in no haste, and had nothing to do but taking care of their gear - so they had no issue wearing full plate.

The fact that the Kingsuards were well rested and wearing heavy armor while Ned and co were tired from an exhausting ride and wearing their lighter gear probably contributed to the atrocious k/d ratio for Team Ned.

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>>23289745
I think the books give a significantly different experience from the show just because of how perspective differs. You're put directly in the shoes of a few characters and almost never leave them. For example, Robb isn't a pov character so his story is told entirely from the perspective of his mom and the people hearing about him.
The Shattering from Elden Ring feels very in line with how Martin normally writes. Everyone is misunderstanding each other and acting stupid because of it.

>>23289745
I became a huge fan of the series a year before the show was announced. Ten minutes into the first or second episode of season three I turned the show off and never watched an episode again because it was clear that it was deviating from the books at that point. With how people talk about those later seasons it was a good decision on my part. Even if he doesn't finish the series, asoiaf and all of its companion pieces, is the greatest fantasy series ever written and nothing has come close to topping it even with the massive delay. There's no reason to try to wait, just read and enjoy.

What’s anons favorite artwork of a character from the books? I’ve seen a bunch and I don’t recall actually liking any of them.

And another thing — everyone seems to think Sauron would just one-sidedly dominate the fuck out of Westeros but I don’t think it’s that simple. First of all he’d be working with humans literally more degenerate than orks and he reportedly struggled to keep even them in line.

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>>23289943
I used to use pic related as a profile pic often. It's a bit more show than book related but it's still easily my favorite piece of (fan) art.

>>23289946
>First of all he’d be working with humans literally more degenerate than orks and he reportedly struggled to keep even them in line.
Rings of power.

ggwp

>>23289958
>Rings of Power
Where’s he going to forge them…?

>>23284731
He huffed and he puffed. As food morsels kept falling out of the thing audaciously thought of as his face. A pasty, demon-pink head hosted that face, placed on top of the notorious mass of FAT. His name was George Ar Ar Martin. His truename was Grum, It That Devours.
In this particular moment, Grum was doing something exceptionally rare, astounding to all who knew him. He wasn't eating and hadn't done so for eighty seconds. For he was in the process of procuring elfin concept art of suggestive sexual stylings, and making a run for it. Truly unsettling, the beacon to avarice that was his form plowed ahead at a significant speed. With the mythical momentum of an obese hippopotamus charging while in heat, Grum crushed and stomped over a good dozen japanese employers of From Software as well as an unwitting passerby just out of their office building. The ninety-four years old lady was on her way to see her first great grandson, when her life was snuffed out under the huffing and puffing mass that wrote Tywin get killed on the shitter by a midget because Tolkien didn't explain Aragorn's tax policy.
As sirens whined and people scrambled for safety, Grum rubbed the concept art all over his FAT. Which was everywhere on him, for that is what he was. FAT.
"mmhfruaaghh.. mmIm, I'm hfungryyy..." he growled. People screamed and run, police forces were preoccupied with helping people evacuate and obviously too afraid to approach the Beast that some still see as a venerable author.
"nzzzjwabaneez, jabaneese pussy, eaaaaat, elfin cupcakeshmmblrreuurgg" he barfed while running, dropping some of the concept art.
A scream tore through the sky. The JDF ballistic missile roared furiously and smashed onto the obscene mass of FAT. The explosion shattered the windows of the office buildings around it to bits. A blinding fireball engulfed the street, Smoke billowed and fire raged for a couple of seconds. People a little further away dared to sneak a peak.
"mffmfhrrrrr...grrmlhfff" the smoke kept rising, the flames seemed to remain.
"..mbllluerr...th..thish is wuat payin taxshes getsh you, yoummmbleurrghh, you fucking JAPSH!"
As if the devil himself decided to mock God and His creation, the curse upon humanity that was George RR Martin had become something beyond horror.
His FAT was burning, sustaining the fire. The stench was indescribable, yet demonstrably lethal. The sheer mass suggested the flames would sustain indefinitely. And GRUM was raging.
"huuuuungerrrryyy... fffoooooooodah!!". And then he paused. Burning, absolutely still. Even through the flames, his eyes sparkled.
"got it! if victarion gets ass raped by melissandre then that peasant's line from book three would suggest that Tarly can sustain FAT flames to grill his own food as he grabs it, making it easier to reach Arya, now practicing skull fucking, to infiltrate...."
Five months later, A Dream of Spring hit bookstore shelves. 400 pages of elven rape, 3 billion copies sold.

>>23290034
that's a big cloak

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>>23289943
This one of Aegon, Visenya, and Rhaenys

>>23289745
Yes, read it.

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>>23290034
love this one, but i just had to fix the hair for my autism
>>23290952
first time seeing this art, looks really cool thanks for sharing anon

Jon or Stannis would've been boring choices if they wound up being Azor Ahai imagine how much more of a fun and batshit direction if AA wound up being someone like Ramsey Snow or Victarion. I think Victarion has a likely chance but I think Ramsey would've been a much more interesting reaction both from people in universe and readers but I got a feeling Azor Ahai isn't one singular person and could just be a metaphor ro reforming Westeros somehow or maybe The Watch itself

>>23291263
I doubt we'd ever get a confirmed AA even if we get another book. It's something fans are supposed to argue about.
>could just be a metaphor ro reforming Westeros somehow or maybe The Watch itself
If Jon is AA then Lightbringer is definitely the Watch.

>>23291263
A Euron AA would be pretty cool. He is the destined hero, but are his methods of fulfilling the prophecy acceptable? Perhaps the issue of the Others will once again remain unsolved and set to a later date, solely because in order to truly defeat them for good, Euron would have to do something that no one allows him to do for being evil, like sacrificing half the world or awaking Cthulhu or something.
Do the ends justify the means? Seems like something Gurm would have a hardon for. Will the few morally good people allow Euron's cruelty and evil to happen so it may save the world? The human heart in conflict with itself and such.

I have a theory that Myrcella won't die, that she will survive to the end of the series. My thinking is centered on the three "gold shrouds" that Cersei's children will have and Myrcella's scarred face. One theme of ASOIAF is that prophecies are always misunderstood. I think that Tommen will die, but that Myrcella's gold shroud does not refer to her death, but to a golden veil she will wear to hide her scarred face at court. I think that its no mistake that Myrcella has a nasty facial mutilation. George is setting up a prophecy subversion. A Lannister girl hiding a fucked up face behind a gold veil would be in character.

>>23291012
I thought her hair was described as very dark honey. That's just regular honey blond.

>>23291462
I don't remember exactly, but it's blonde in any case, original pic was red

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>>23291470
Ironically enough, this is the artist's original post, then they tried to go for book accuracy.

Where can I find the AI-written TWOW?

>>23291454
I never really see any discussion about Myrcella. Seems like every character under the sun gets talked about, but never her.

>>23291999
It's because she has absolutely no agency. Even Tommen gets to make a small demand or two once he becomes king lol. Myrcella is completely passive, she right there with Rickon for least talked about.

>>23286548
Arya's Clash of Kings storyline is her best book, and I'd consider it a highlight in the whole series. Bran is an acquired taste. He usually doesn't do a whole lot, so the best Bran chapters are the ones where he's a camera man for the Northern politics and one or two lore dumps about young Ned.

>>23284731
To this day nobody has ever given me anything conclusive on what this fat fuck ever contributed to elden ring. The story and plot are so archetypical of fromsoft. At this point nothing will convince he they didn’t just write him a check to attach his name to the project so they could maximize reach with plebs.

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>>23292088
Joji san did the larger portion of the world building, magic, and lore/history of the characters. They took what he gave them and used it to build the game. He did a lot of cool GRRM tricks with it, just like asoiaf you have to actually pay attention to what you are hearing and reading to grasp it all, and even more so because it's a Fromsoftware game and they're always stingy with lore.

>>23292088
The Shattering feels like something Martin would write. Ranni's plot and her fuckups are somewhat similar to the events of early asoiaf if you try and see them in the right context. I bet a lot of what he wrote isn't in the game though.

>>23292088
The incest/selfcest shit with Marika/Radagon felt really reminiscent of Jaime/Cersei.

>>23292182
Speaking of Ranni. The lore surrounding the moons is all George too. It's hard to talk about because if you pay attention it will spoil parts of asoiaf for you. And yeah Miyazaki said he basically used what George gave him as a manual, so there is a lot of stuff we haven't seen, plus they are still working on expansion material.

>>23288927
Yeah, it's a gem. I see so much anger directed at Martin on this board, but I read something like this, and I have to respect and even love the man for writing this beautiful book. The old values delivered clean, authentic, and potent, minus any knee-jerk subversive gestures.

Are there any passages in any of the books that actually mention what smallclothes? I know that they are underwear, but it seems like GRRM never goes any further than just writing "smallclothes". For a guy obsessed with fashion and worldbuilding detail, and who doesn't shy away from sex, it seems weird that smallclothes are never described or elaborated on.

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>>23292321

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>>23292321
Nope not anything I can remember. irl discoveries and studies of medieval underwear doesn't appear to be particularly interesting looks wise, so descriptions of Cersei's or Dany's lacy thongs from George will just get him accused of being even more of a perpetrator of the male gaze.

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>3 Bran chapters since the Clinton administration

>>23291505
lol that's Vael Targaryen

Speaking of Val, was she right about Shireen? Is there going to be a greyscale outbreak at the wall?

>>23284744
>Continuing from the previous thread: why do the people of Westeros favor swords in martial combat?

Answer to 99.9% of any "lore" question: Because the author didn't think about it for more than 30 seconds you fucking retard.

GoT was written long before HEMA Youtube existed and taught every zoomer who plays vidya that "swords are a sidearm". To his credit GRRM does know basic medieval weaponry and if you had asked him in 1995, he probably would've said "oh yeah, you're right, a sword shouldn't be a primary battlefield weapon". But just like his "The Starks and Lannisters and Highgarden and Twins houses have stood for TEN THOUSAND YEARS", the fat man didn't think about it. Too busy fantasizing about grease dribbling down a woman's chin as she gobbled stew.

>>23285428
laughed a lot more than i should have. thanks anon

>>23289049
Granted I barely remember anything about HOTD or the prophecy but I think a better excuse would have been that he foresaw ~*something*~ that would need the cooperation of the Seven Kingdoms and he either didn't tell anyone (stupid) or told Aenys or whatever but the knowledge was lost. It's a silly retcon that's very difficult to incorporate in the story anyway. Same with a lot of other things from the world book or interviews or other non-main series sources.

Seven, George thought again, despairing. He had no chance writing seven books, he knew. No chance, and no choice.

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>>23291828
>Where can I find the AI-written TWOW?

Here, enjoy:
https://web.archive.org/web/20230721122339/https://liamswayne.github.io/ wow.html

And here is ADOS:
https://web.archive.org/web/20230721122520/https://liamswayne.github.io/ dos.html

>>23289745
The show and the books are like water to wine, they are both liquids, works of fiction and that's where the comparison stops. Even the first three seasons that follow the books are going to feel vastly different given how they are told.
>>23291263
Do you care about five books worth of foreshadowing or would you rather a twist just for the sake of it? Even if i subscribe to AA being more than one person, which i do, we know who is going to be known as the guy himself in the end.

>pre targ nights watch: receives 6 kings in a day
>post targ nights watch: peasant thieves and rapists

so much for aegon's dream

>>23292088
The world is mostly his, Miyazaki already said in an interview that they basically went around obfuscating what he wrote. In typical Fromsoft fashion you should understand what that means.

Who do you think will get control of the lands in the end?
Winterfell and the North=Rickon or maybe one of Brandon Starks hidden bastards who is legitimised to continue the Stark line
Riverlands=Blackfish
Castertly Rock and Westerlands=Tyrion will have temporary control before he exiles himself to the wall after murdering Daenerys
Storms End and Stormlands=Edric Aegon will legitimise him before storming King's Landing as a way to get them backing his campaign
King's Landing=Bran acting as Hand, Sansa and Aegon as king and queen ultimately end up on the throne
Old Town=Hightowers are definitely getting wiped out along with the Maesters by Euron no idea who could take over
Tyrells I see surviving or maybe someone like Aurene Waters plunders what is left of Highgarden
Eyrie=Maybe one of the Royces assumes control
Iron Islands=Asha or maybe Theon's bastard kids if the theory both or one of them he had with the Miller's wife are indeed his sons
Night's Watch=Jorah Mormont meets up with Sam and hears his father's last request following Daenerys death he joins upand rises to the rank of Lord Commander with Tyrion acting as his steward
>>23292571

Everyone thinks Melissandre is going to be the one to kill Shireen but I think it will br Val she was pretty vocal about not liking her being at the wall before Jon gets stabbed

>>23291828
>Where can I find the AI-written TWOW?
What for? It's barely readable garbage, and it's mostly based on the TV show anyway.

>>23293266
My fairy tale ending
>North/Winterfell - Rickon with someone acting as regent
>Westerlands/Casterly Rock - either Tommen/Myrcella if they survive or one of the 39587934534 remaining Lannisters
>Stormlands/Storm's End - legitimised Edric
>Reach - Willas
>Oldtown - House Hightower
>Eyrie - knowing Gurm, Sweetrobin will live to see 100 years, so Sweetrobin
>Iron Islands - Asha
>Driftmark - legitimised Aurane, somehow I can't help but see him as a future Oakenfist 2.0
I can't see Bran as Hand, he's what, 10? He feels like he belongs in a tree, sending emails to his sister

>>23284731
the more she shat…

>>23293266
North: Rickon
West: Tyrion
East: Who cares
South: Honestly don't know, the Tyrell could very well all perish in the next field of fire
Storm: Edric
Dorne: Jon
Old Town: I doubt all the Hightowers get wiped out but maybe the maester could take control...
Night's Watch: Won't even exist in the same capacity as before, so who knows
Riverrun: Edmure
Pyke: hopefully nuked lol so no one
King's Landing: Aegon/Daenerys/Tyrion

Jon will either die or become King of the Others in a pact and fuck off north. There's no third option.

>>23293567
Stannis the Mannis will have Shireen marry Bran to connect their houses.

>>23284731
GRRM is overrated author.
He writes great dialogue and has smooth pacing, it's just that his worldbuilding is shitty and there is so filler. Like he spends so much time in trivial shit like food description and eye-color, if Renly's eye color mattered so little that he actually forgot which ones they were, why even include them in the first place? Isn't that literal padding? His books are 1100 words, he doesn't need any padding.

>>23294193
I like the details.

>>23293154
Lmao

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>>23284744
>Why do the people of Europe favor swords in martial combat?
>For the context of why I'm asking this: Recently, I've gone on a history binge, where I studied plate armor, and apparently full plate armor made the wearer nigh invincible everywhere, save the joints, the visor, and the crevices behind the armor.
>Swords apparently were nigh useless versus armor unless you were half swording or stabbing at an extremely hard to reach weakpoint like the armpits or the groin. Moreover, blunt weapons like warhammers, halberds, and maces were apparently preferred to swords because of their ability to deliver concussive damage through the armor.
>So with all of this in mind, why does everyone in actual history use swords in battle, especially when plate armor is common and a hardcounter versus it.
>How are people like The Black Prince, Sir John Hawkwood, Muzio Sforza, etc. able to be such killing machines on the battlefield with swords? Shouldn't they be struggling to take down even one guy in plate armor?

>>23292390
You say that like its a problem

>>23294193
I like how he puts the reader in the character's perspective

>>23293266
I think Ellaria will coup Dorne just like in the show but for completely opposite reasons. Everytime the Dornish enact one of their retarded plots to get revenge, someone they care about dies every single time. After the Sand Snakes and Arianne die horribly for no reason just like Quentyn and Oberyn, Ellaria will kill Doran to stop the cycle of vengeance. Trystane will become prince and the marriage to Myrcella will the mark that the cycle of vengeance between the Martells and Lannisters is over, just like marriage to the Targaryens ended that historical strife.

>>23295185
I don't care, I'm not there to read food descriptions but for politics.
You could use the same justification for everything, why not just describe detail every time a character takes a shit?

>>23295382
It's not about the descriptions or politics, it's about how the book shows you the character view.

>>23285675
I think it is le cooler

>>23293567
Nah, he isn't dying again

>>23293266
It will become a democracy after the lands are ravaged by blood feuds

>>23293266
Winterfell = Sansa or Rickon
Riverrun = Edmure
Casterly Rock = Some minor Lannister from Lannisport
Storm's End = Stannis
King's Landing = Nobody. It's getting nuked.
Highgarden = Tyrells are staying put
Eyrie = Sweetrobin. Sansa will kill Littlefinger, allowing him to make a recovery.
Pyke = Asha
Castle Black = Undead Jon Snow

>>23294193
Sorry you are a soulless autist

>>23295382
The food descriptions aren't even as detailed as people make them out to be and they probably take up 0.001% of the book's word count, less than that even. People originally joked about the food because he's fat. He's no more descriptive than other writers.

the reason the east is so mysterious is not just from association with magic but largely due to the lack of proper sources regarding what really goes on there. this leads the westerners to colour in details regarding the east. the same happened in the real world, like the idea of cannibal monsters killing and eating merchants in the silk road, which in reality were simply raiders.

what things would the east hear about westeros in the same vein?
example: "in the far West there is a giant ice structure watched over by bird people who protect the world from giant monsters that lay in the snow of inhospitable lands covered by eternal night"
"directly south of these bird men are men with wolf heads who turn into wolves to hunt their enemies"

>>23284744
Robert Baratheon won the Westeros with his trusty warhammer

>>23296386
>cucked not once but twice
was the throne worth it?

>>23293266
North = Sansa, I don't see Rickon surviving to the end
Westerlands = I agree with Tyrion going exile. But after Tyrion, it gets tricky. Cersei and Tommen are definitely going to die and if Varys indeed has Tyrek, he might get rid of Kevan's remaining children to install Tyrek as his puppet to rule Westerlands. Lords of Westerlands might not support Genna because her children are Freys, so I'll go with Daven
Stormlands = Edric
Reach = Willas, with his crippled leg, he remains in Highgarden avoiding all the carnage
Riverlands = Edmure, he survives his captivity
Vale = Sweetrobin with Yohn Royce acting as regent
Dorne = Arianne or Trystane
Iron Islands = Rest of the westeros finally do what they should've done ages ago and wipe them out for good. Or Asha
Old Town = Some of the Hightowers survive, I don't see them being wiped out completely
Night's Watch = Won't exist. The wall is very likely to come down in the books as well. Not by a zombie dragon though.
Iron throne = No clue, but it's not going to be any of Jon, Daenerys or Aegon. Might as well be Bran who is possessed by Bloodraven.

>>23296218
>He's no more descriptive than other writers.
Frank Herbert is very minimalist in his description and certainly doesn't do autistic stuff.

>>23284731
That's a pretty funny article desu

>>23296658
It depends on the purpose or world building, having and describing elaborate feats denotes wealth. It's even still like that in our current irl world, where nearly everyone has access to food. I just finished reading a novel where food was used to let the reader know whenever the main character had come into some money. And George isn't just writing food porn, specific foods are associated with certain characters, and sometimes they are even used to indicate a character's intentions. But never mind all of that, fat man write about bacon.

>>23296795
>specific foods are associated with certain characters, and sometimes they are even used to indicate a character's intentions.
Food are used to indicate locations in the story as well.

>>23287914
I thought they had to wear Panda Suits?

how many kings does barristan plan on outliving?

>>23295382
He did. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmKhGqWcJGY

>>23297098
He's probably meant to get killed by Dany so I doubt he'll outlive Tommen

>>23297291
I knew about that, the point being he does that one time, and not all time

>>23284731
when is this fat fuck finishing his GoT book??

>>23297098
He will be the last man standing

>>23297474
he already did that a while ago anon

>>23297098
All of them. He'll also switch his allegiance to every new king that shows up.

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>>23296795
Stannis is going to die thinking about Renly and his stupid sexy peach.

Don't know how to phrase this without maybe coming off as a coomer so I'll just ask: What was the deal with Sansa sleeping with Margaery in ASoS? Is it some medieval thing or noble-woman thing? Just girls giggling and whispering in bed before they fall asleep? Or is GRRM implying that Margaery and the Tyrell court is sexually loose compared to the rest of Westeros?

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What do we do when GRRM dies? Write fanfics? Clone him? Break into his home and steal the notes?

>>23297865
>Barristan turns into a Walker and joins the Night King.
kino

>>23298815
Mourn that he never finished the series and the only canon we have is the terrible drivel from the show

>>23285411
>>23287064
>the virgin swordsmen
>>23285495
>>23285507
>the chad phalanx

Sword niggers really grind my gears, like how the fuck can you be speaking from such an authoritative position while being so completely ignorant of the history? Watch HEMA bouts where they get world class swordsmen to fight absolute novices with a spear, they lose 4 times out of 5.

>>23298878
Swords are a gentlemans agreement to keep armored noble deaths low so those shitty houses can keep inbreeding on for another ten thousand years.

>>23298820
>Night King.
hbo fanfic

>>23299099
The snow elves WILL have a leader and the story WILL end on an anime tier duel with the final boss and you WILL like this double subversion of GRRM's usual subversion, chud.

>>23299142
We already know their leader is the Great Other.

>>23298805
Yeah, it was common for people to share beds, so Sansa, Margaery and other noble ladies (or even their servants) sleeping in the same bed has no sexual connotations.

I watched GoT. Are the books any good? IS there a particular order I should read them in?

>>23299311
The books are better in most ways but they're a different sort of experience. Read them in release order.

>>23299182
>The Great Other
That's a figure from the R'hllorian religion. No evidence that he exists.

>>23299311
The first 4 seasons of GoT were great but the show went to shit not long after them. The books are the far better experience overall and stayed consistently well written. A Storm of Swords was arguably the peak of the series. Read them in release order.

>>23299353
>evidence
Bran's heart of winter dream.

>old nan is a 200 year old dragon rider
>theon is becoming the drowned god
>bran is any brandon throughout history
Just release the damn book already so people can stop coming up with stupid theories

>>23296658
And his books are worse than Martin's

>>23284731
Was it really necessary to rename Brand chapters to "Prince In the Tower" to hammer in the War of the Roses allegory?

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I've just realized thanks to a thread in /tv/ how retarded the concept of a 7 vs 3 noblemen duel is. You're telling me no one else was present? Not a single squire or scout, no reinforcement troops? Just an archer would have fucked up the duel. Did Eddard and the other six come so far alone? What the fuck Martin

>>23299727
We don't know exactly what happened. We have no recollection of any of the first person lead up to Ned and company reaching the tower, and nothing of the actual fight except for what Ned dreamed about it while sick. And only two men left the fight alive. Stranger scenarios have occurred in real life, it's not really a flaw in the story.

>>23299727
more people there means more risk of r+l=j getting out

>>23299445
>Bran's heart of winter dream.
Nothing about the Great Other there.

>>23298815
There's a group of people led by Preston Jacobs doing TWOW. That's the sequel we'll get.

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>>23284731
>show starts with memorable dialogue
>by the end the final season dialogue per words per minute is extremely low and few dialogues they have are just lines like "She's my kween"

So….how does the “average” Essos native see Westeros? There seems to be a significant amount of trade and other contact. But don’t the big city-states of Essos just flat-out make a mockery of anyplace in Westeros?

>>23300131
They see Westerosi as retarded tourists for the most part

>>23299295
Thanks

>>23297789
he hasnt finished winds of winter yet

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what will happen to rickon?

>>23300444
He will become the most evil Stark, relatively speaking, due to his direwolf shaping his too young mind and due to his trauma.

>>23300444
His time spent away from his family and the life of a noble while living on Skagos, with Osha, will essentially turn him into a wilding and he's going to be the bridge between the common north men and the wildlings that Jon has let through the wall.

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Is this wishful thinking on her part?

Dumb theory, Bronn called Lollys' son Tyrion Tanner because his actual last name is Tanner.

>>23300583
yes

>>23284731
every day i hope this fat fuck chokes on a piece of chicken and dies

are asoiaf threads on /tg/ nuked forever? have we fully migrated here then?

>>23300388
Winds of Winter isn't Game of Thrones. Game of Thrones is finished.

>>23300645
Nah, give it like two months or so.
Some anon who hates generals became a janitor I think

How is there so little decent ASOIAF pornography? Was the show just so lewd people didn't create/seek supplementary material?

>>23300733
books typically don't have lewds since coomers are not typically well read individuals and the show has too little and too brief coom material for how long it is for any large rule34 arts.

>>23300733
If i were a better artist i would draw an Arya Stark who suddenly got struck with a Big Titty Curse.

>>23297882
Stannis is so autistic. I fucking love him. Killing Renly off so quickly was wasted potential. Interactions like this were pure gold.

>>23300733
I read a lot on AO3, and for some reason, there are a ton of smutty fanfics set in the modern day involving Rhaegar's children, Jon Snow, and some other random characters.

>>23300733
Smut follows the medium. Books create fanfiction smut.

>>23300825
She's kinda of going through that right now. Arya is so preoccupied with her training as a faceless man she's missing out on the fact that she's growing. She's still tomboy Arya to herself but every other character is like "Goddamn girl you're hot as fuck!"

>>23302507
>she's missing out on the fact that she's growing
That sample chapter where she seduces a guy explicitly states that Arya is still flat, not even budding

Do you guys think the Others built the wall?

>>23302644
That's why I said "kinda". I know she's still flat, but she's maturing and becoming more attractive. She, and us, are aware of it because other people mention it to her but iirc she never thinks it herself. She's still in contrast with Sansa. Sansa is pretty aware that she's hot and men want her. And all of the other stark kids have been aware of their sexuality, Bran likes Meera, Rob got a woman pregnant, Jon had Ygritte, that just lives Arya and Rickon lol.

>>23302792
>lives
leaves

>>23298878
>Watch HEMA bouts where they get world class swordsmen to fight absolute novices with a spear, they lose 4 times out of 5.
proof?
and don't post that video from the br*tish modeler autist where he got some pussies to fight agaisnt spear baboons

>>23296452
>Sweetrobin
no way, he's going to die before the age of 10

>>23302765
It was a joint effort between them and the humans

>>23302507
>>23302644
>>23302765
>>23302792
I will strive to give this tomboy big titties.
Because that would be hilarious.

I dont want King Tommen to die lads. Hes such a sweet boy. If only he had been born first.

So on GRRM's latest blog post he talked about a singer being dead and posted a youtube video to a specific song that has these lyrics:

Look what they've done to my song, ma-ma-ma
Look, look what they've done to my song
You know, they tied it up in a plastic bag
And then turned it upside down, oh ma-ma
Look what they've done to my song
It was the only thing I could do half right
Turning out all wrong, ma
Look what they've done to my song

Surely it's not a coincidence and surely we're getting Winds of Winter any day now.

People who claim that GRRM perpetuates the male gaze clearly have no idea how physically healthy men think, or are in denial. It's literally baked into a man's biology and brain for him to notice a woman's sexual characteristics.
If you want POV chapters to portray what characters are thinking, don't get mad when male characters mentally comment on the size of breasts or think about sex.

>>23303395
George is actually fantastic about writing women. I see more compliments than complaints. And I never try to take the complainers seriously, because women writers are not infallible. Sometimes they write bad female characters themselves, many times they write men terribly too and are guilty of using "the female gaze". The one that gets me is how women in general, but also women writers, are unashamedly attracted to psychopaths. It's not uncommon for women to still have female characters till being horny for the guy that just hospitalized his wife for talking back. Or horny for a guy because he has a bit of wealth or influence. Way to go for setting examples for young women. I'd take my daughters and nieces reading descriptions of breasts over the mental gymnastics some women like to use to justify trying to fuck an abuser.

>>23303261
>Look what they've done to my song
>of fire and ice
I believe, anon.

>>23303261
According to the extensive literature classes I have taken, that sounds like he's still whining about the TV show instead of writing.

>>23303620
Reminds me of George being horrified and weirded out by female fans shipping Sansa and the Hound.

How the fuck is this general so active when the poetry general is close to death almost every day?

>>23303659
Because Martin is a better writer and there's more interesting things to talk about here than there?

>>23303659
>why is the general about the most popular fantasy series in the last 30 years so active

Daenerys was conceived through rape.

>>23303659
The poetry general is full of pseuds who care more about appearing to like poetry than actually liking to read or write it. There's a lot less pretence in this thread

>>23284731
You're a funny fucking dude OP holy shit

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>>23303654
i still laugh every time i re-read it
under that fat old exterior that likes to write about 13 year olds being raped and impregnated, sometimes by a horde of peasants, there is a sensual and caring nice guy....
why would they love the edgy badboy sandor clegane instead of his whiny fat self insert samwell tarly???

>>23303659
this is the only good thread on this dumbass shit board full of pretentious reddit-rejects

>>23303654
>>23303929
Yeah it's really common in women's writing or stories for female audiences. The female gaze is all about being tall, broad shouldered, strong, aggressive. Bonus points if he's rich or a leader. Like the last novel I read bye a woman writer, a guy shows up in town robs multiple people through a scam and threats of violence, and the main female character's response is to put on makeup and give him more of her property lmao. I would spend more time calling women out on the shallowness, stupidity, and dangerous message but I've got other things to do with my life. I'll let men keep writing about noticing tits and ass, and let women writers keep writing about how to send more young women to abused women's shelters from picking shitty men.

>>23285428
Have you considered volunteering to ghostwrite The Winds of Winter once GRRM croaks?

>>23303929
I knew a girl who shipped the Hound with Arya. It was weird.

>>23303261
A bit late for that huh Georgie boy
Its weird how you can write into being an entire world while being clueless about your own

>>23304045
If you really want to have your eyes opened, go over to r/RomanceBooks. It's just a bunch of women recommending porn to each other that happens to be sold in bookstores. I pirated a bunch of the books I saw recommended, and they all have the exact same male love interest.
>Tall, broad shouldered, strong, muscular, aggressive, with a big dick.

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>the female gaze

>>23303659
Because the poetry general has nothing to discuss. People will either have read a poet or they won't, and if they have then they'll either like them or they won't. As it's impossible to intelligently discuss matters of taste, there's not much to say.

This thread brings together people who already like the same topic, and the series is filled with enough plots, subtext, mysteries etc that there's a lot to discuss.

Post your ASOIAF hot takes
mine is
>the more she drank the more she shat is actually a good analogy

>>23284795
That's a sick Picture/painting

I think the plan is to use it as a blunt instrument until your opponent is in a prostrared position, and then to slide the blade through a chink in order to kill.
>like the show version of the fight between ser Ardyss and Bronn at Tyrion's trial by combat

https://youtu.be/jR54A_PSPbM?si

>>23299727
The rest were fighting at the newly christened Ruby Ford,, or there-abouts, if I remember correctly.

>>23300119
GRRM has stated that he hates fan-fiction,

>>23304829
Lyanna kidnapped Rhaegar

>>23304829
Analogy for what?

>>23303929
Sam's pink mast can't compete with gigachads Clegane, how sad

>>23304273
Yeah, Arya's and Sandor's "big dog and lil dog" adventures is one of my favorite parts of the series. You've got to be a little sick in the head to try to find anything sexual about those two characters.

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Are we sure this is Robb?

>>23306035
Only Robb had an iron crown.

>>23306035
>>23306062
The only other person I can imagine it being is Jon but I'm sure it is Robb, or at the very least it was intended as being Robb when GRRM wrote it fucking 25 years ago

>>23306078
The mute appeal line is weird if its's Robb. The feast setting is weird if it's Jon.

>>23306103
>mute appeal line is weird if its's Robb
I disagree, the last thing he does while alive is look to Catelyn for help. He's a young boy in way over his head, no pun intended and was killed in a way and a place that was completely unexpected. It only makes sense that he would need or want help

>>23304829
House Umber can mentally control giants, but since there are none nearby, theyve never been able to try it out.

>>23306267
I like house Umber and I desperately want this to be true.

>>23304829
Bloodraven is a good guy

>>23304829
Rickon will be the endgame King In the North.

>>23287668
wait when do they retcon that in the spinoff tv series?

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Well this is really interesting.
This was art in the 2019 ASOIAF calendar

>>23306915
In the first episode of HotD. They retconned Aegon so that he had a vision of the Others.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzIwmg_cbCg

>>23306940
Jon, Dany and who? Sansa?

>>23304829
Its entirely irrelevant to the story so even if correct we would never know but i like the Roose is a skinwalker theory
>>23306940
Short hair wench could be anyone but white hair with a red robe and a stick seems oddly specific yet i have no clue

>>23306940
Val teaches Jon and Selyse how to ride brooms in Morrowind

>>23307005
>>23307022
>>23307039
Dany is about to become a R'hollor fanatic isn't she? Moqorro is going to make her messiah complex 1000x worse. Westeros really is going to look at her like she's a goddamn demon when she lands.

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>>23307063
>targaryens have always operated above the gods' rules
>dany losing the peoples' love
>has seen her dragons increasing their magic
>religion claims she's the messiah
>saw and took part in a fire miracle
I could see it. Would be a creative way to get rid of Stannis too.

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>>23307093
There's so much room for chaos that at this point i'm just hoping Tyrion is able (and willing) to temper everyone's spirit.

>>23300119
Preston's fan fic has all of his retarded theories as canon. That means that the Dornish are secretly genius planners, Quentyn is a dragon rider, Bran is a time traveling paradox, the faceless men keep stone coins buried in their assholes at all times, Dany is actually just a peasant girl, Jason Mallister killed Balon and not Euron, Casterly Rock is an atomic bomb shelter, the whole world is a feudal post nuclear apocalypse world, Bloodraven is an expert geneticist, and that the ending will involve a peace treaty between humans and the Others (who he claims are named after some sociological concept and not because they're akin to beings from the Celtic Otherworld, which Martin has stated).

>>23307149
"The Brave Companions orchestrated the sparrows movement" is such a dumb reach I was certain he was joking.

>>23284784
I like Arya because I have a fetish for tomboyish loli suffering, that's all. She is peak tomboy.

>>23307132
>tyrion inflates dany's ego more than the rest
>becomes associated with r'hllor
>lives up to demonic and bloody hand monikers when dany burns people
>everyone was right about tyrion in the end

Tyrion's suffering isn't complete yet and he most likely won't get the revenge we think he will. Remember this is grrm he's writing to subvert tropes. George has been foreshadowing that Tyrion is going to lose his key feature, just like Jamie lost his hand.

>>23304829
grrm should stop pretending to write twow and instead pretend to write the rest of the dunk & egg novellas

>>23307248
That's the issue, the way Georgie set things up it could go both ways and he adds fuel by calling Tyrion a villain. Honestly him going full imp would break me lol
>>23307149
The "treaty" between the others and humans is happening tho

>>23307360
His dick?

>>23307736
It would probably be less cruel if he did lose his dick. Tyrion will most likely lose his tongue. The one thing that makes him useful and has allowed him to survive for as long as he has.

>>23307726
Tyrion is made to suffer. The only people he could actually care about are almost certainly going to die.
>tyrion goads dany into more cruelty or into thinking she's azor ahai
>enjoys the chaos
>myrcella is given to red priests for her nonexistent king's blood and being the usurper's daughter
>tyrion tells dany about incest to try and save her
>last thing myrcella sees is her favourite uncle, mutilated and evil like they said, calling her an abomination
>her horror breaks him
If he lost his tongue it'd be another kind of terrifying. No way we're ever getting that far though. Unless Dany and Tyrion's stories are over in Winds this would be in the last book if any.

>>23307835
Everyone who thinks that Myrcella MUST die one way or another misses what GRRM's theme about prophecies is. Myrcella will survive, and the shroud refers to her golden veil that hides her scarred face.

>>23307726
The peace between the humans and Others involved sacrificing babies to the Others. That's totally evil. A peace that involves child sacrifice is worse than a war and any man who accepts such a peace is a vile cuck.

George has about 400 pages left to write. Winds of Winter should be released around 2026-28. He'll die before finishing Fire and Blood 2 and Dream of Spring.

>>23287064
Swords are neither cheap nor easy to mass produce in a medieval setting. Compare the metal used and blacksmithing time that smithing a sword requires to a spear or a axe. Swords were a side arm and a status symbol for the elite.

>>23309278
>He'll die before finishing Fire and Blood 2
Let's hope he reveals what really happened at Summerhall in Winds then.

>>23308912
That's why they sent them rape, incest, and bastard babies. There is a lot of blood or bodily sacrifices in asoiaf, a lot. It's the main component of getting magic to work.

>>23296247
>the reason the east is so mysterious is not just from association with magic but largely due to the lack of proper sources regarding what really goes on there. this leads the westerners to colour in details regarding the east. the same happened in the real world, like the idea of cannibal monsters killing and eating merchants in the silk road, which in reality were simply raiders.
That's indistinguishable from magic. Mystery/wonder is indistinguishable from magic, or religion.
"Grug, what are those glowy white spots in the blackness up above?"
"I don't know Grug, must be the gods!"

>>23296247
>what things would the east hear about westeros in the same vein?
Also, we already know that the Asshai'i think Casterly rock is a palace mad entirely out of gold, and ruled by a lion.
Similar tales they will hear about the Wall, except in that case it is 100% real

how hot is red priestess pussy?

>>23309278
>t-two more years!
Lmao, people have been saying that since about 2013. You won't see TWOW as long as GRRM is alive.

>It has just been announced that The Winds of Winter will be released in two 1200 page segments. G.R.R.M announces that the first half is nearing completion and suggests a tentative release date of 2030.

>>23309835
It’s the cope that refuses to die and it the only way it’ll die is when George does.

>>23284744
I think noblemen were the only ones who wear full plate armour in the universe of ASOIAF. The men-at-arms wear steel helmets and leather armour for the most part unless their House (like the Lannisters) provides better armour for the elite soldiers such as breast plates. You also see them equipped with spears and halberds, not just swords in the show.
Also Robert Baratheon's signature weapon was a war hammer.

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>>23292247
The issue is with implying ASOIAF proper is subversive in any way in the first place. I have to believe it's genuine unread children/newkeks or only the staunchest Christcucks that believe Lord of the Rings and veiled Christ allegory is the final destination for all fantasy. The ASOIAF books are stupidly pulp for how people treat them, less so than their predecessors surely but still- they don't "degrade" fantasy or any particular ideology any more than the most popular fantasy works of the 80s.
I think the adaptation has colored the external view of the property pretty much irreparably, because when you strip out all of the goofy shit and absurdist worldbuilding that is in the books I guess it would come off as a needlessly dim and bitter depiction of a "fantastical" world.

>>23286548
Bran chapters do if you are in to the schizo magic bullshit, Arya ones don't for the most part. You can really tell how much of her character was stripped out when the fat man decided to not have her dickride Jon the entire time.

>>23309525
none of this info makes it any less evil

>>23310953
What was George's original plan for Arya?

>>23311225
There was meant to be a love triangle between Jon, Arya and Tyrion

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>>23311237
Wait, really?

>>23311287
Yeah, you can kinda see the holes especially once you get to DoD and FoC

>>23311287
Jon compares Ygritte to Arya more than a few times and not just because they're both tomboys

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>>23311287
Read the last page here.

>>23312096
How much of this outline is still intact do you think?

>>23312096
I really want to know what was blacked out... FUCK.

>>23312222
It's vague info about the Others and what they're about

>>23299727
>Not a single squire or scout, no reinforcement troops?
>Did Eddard and the other six come so far alone?
Yes. For the Kingsguard side, the location and purpose of the Tower of Joy was one of Rhaegar's most closely guarded secrets. He specifically did not want anyone to know it, hence him trusting four of the most loyal sworn Kingsguards with guarding it. Notice he did not send Selmy (whose honor would take an issue with the very concept), nor Lewyn Martell whose loyalty was kept with a hostage (setting him to guard the Tower means just providing him with another hostage to trade for his niece), nor Jonothor Darry who was more loyal to Aerys II than to Rhaegar.

On Eddard's side, the whole issue was speed - they rode hard without rest in a minimal group with next to no provisions and gear to go as fast as they could, and arrived exhausted and underarmoured and still with only enough time for Eddard to say goodbye to his beloved sister.

Also
>Just an archer would have fucked up the duel
Consider for a moment that everyone present would find such an affair dishonorable. Remember how Arthur Dayne broke the Smiling Knight's sword - and had another one provided for him instead of killing him unarmed.

All in all the battle at the Tower of Joy is very a believable setup for a high-stakes melee between two small groups of nobles.

Does Gurm have the balls to go with Dany's Aerys arc even after the backlash of the show?

>>23312507
I didn't watch the show, but from fan reactions it's clear that they rushed and botched the story. George has said at least two or three times through the years that's it would be fucking stupid for him to change the story he's been working on for the last 30 years and that's he's not going to do it for any reason. No matter how the show turns out or even if fans figure out the ending.

>>23312096
Really shows that the gardender approachs had massviely changed every character arc for the better. Much better
in Jamies case, this version is such a boring character if he just kills his own son and anyone else in line to be king, althought it does show that 'I'll kill everyone in the world that isn't us' wasn't twisted romance but foreshadowing.
No mention of Greyjoys or any of the other great houses, kinda shows why it all esculated and grew out of hand for george. Makes me wonder when Euron was conceived to be the magical political antagonist of the series . As opposed to fAegon being a political threat and the Others being a magical threat.

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>>23312507
Tick Tock Tick Tock

>>23307835

I think Tyrion will lose his tongue but will be the only one to bear witness to Daenerys Aerys BURN THEM ALL moment and decides to do what Jaime does and murders her to save King's Landing of course everyone thinks he murders her because he's a deformed monster and is exiled to the wall where he becomes Lord Commander Jorah Mormont's steward

>>23312530
he did say that, but keep in mind that his whole "gardener-writer"-shtick means that not even he truly knows how the story will end. He has an idea of what he wants out of the end, but if things end up changing, he incorporates this. and like a domino effect, this can change the ending that he's been writing towards for 30 years as well.

The "perfumed seneschal" that Daenerys was warned to beware is definitely Varys, right?

>>23303659
i'm gonna be honest
poetry sucks
it will forever be mogged by prose

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You know what... GRRM speaking at a women's event is more important than TWOW to be sure.

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>>23315144
cringe

>>23315144
free pussy who could resist

>>23293266
Winterfeell? Arya, I think all of the other Starks except maybe Jon are going to die.
Riverlands? Either Edmure or his son
Casterly Rock? Tyrion or if he had child with Tysa, that.
Storm's End? Either Edric or Gendry
King's Landing? No one, Bran will probably be the last king on the Irone Throne
High Garden? I don't know one of Loras older brothers
Eyrie? Robin maybe
Pyke? Asha
Sunspear? One of the Sand Sisters? Honestly don't care too much about current Dorne
Castle Back? Jon maybe? That's if he doesn't die too

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>>23315367
>Creating strong, yet nuanced, women characters in his books
Actually kinda impressed that a women's org decided to honor GRRM for this, considering that the female characters in ASOIAF do awful and retarded things all the time. Surprisingly decent take from a women's org. I would usually expect them to condemn any literary depiction of women that shows them as anything but infallible angels who are powerful, yet somehow are always the victim.

>>23315431
To be fair, Jorge does not have his female characters raped because he is 5edgy4me like D&D are.

>>23314036
It would make sense with mummers dragon prophecy.

>>23285243
Are you fucking retarded? Two equally skilled practitioners in full plate armor, one with a poleaxe and one with a longsword or even a zweihander, the poleaxe wins every time. No one is "cutting something vital pretty quickly" against a competent warrior wearing plate armor. There's a reason that judicial duels were unarmored.

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>>23315518
I thought they would hold the swords upside down and try to bludgeon each other with the pommels or would try to shove their blades in their opponents' visors.

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>>23315554
Yes, you can try a murder stroke with a sword. It's very effective. Is it as effective as the meat tenderizer on the side of a top-heavy poleaxe or the armor spike on a top-heavy halberd? Absolutely not. The mordschlagen, or murder stroke, is a great option and so is halfswording. Comparing it to polearms when trying to deal with full plate, however, is like comparing Karate to Muay Thai. If someone is coming at me and trying to grapple me so they can shove their sword in my visor or get in close for a murder stroke, I'm simply going to get into the guard of the lady and swing my polearm like a baseball bat the second they get in range. It's not going to seem like such a good idea anymore.

>>23315144
Honestly I'm glad he's in less of a depressive mood

How far south will the Others get?

>>23315367
Why is this cringe? You people who hate women should be thrown into a pit.

>>23316037
Hope she sees this bro.

>>23299727
So what are anons thoughts on the whole 'Kingsguards are written and described as White Walkers' idea for this scene. Re-reading it hrough the perspective of the Kingsguards are Others guarding Jon 'The Prince that was Promised (to the Others)' really cements to me Jons corpse will be taken by them. But I can't decide if he'll join them and be their leader, the Nights King from the show or is their mortal enemy that they are trying to root out and destroy

I wish we got to see more genuine wedding ceremonies, I really enjoy that part of the Red Wedding where they're stripping the bride and groom while tossing lewd insults at each others houses.
Does that have any real historical precedence?

>>23316176
Bedding ceremony was a real thing in medieval Europe

>>23316106
He can be all of those things. Also George describes a storm of rose petals as blue as the eyes of death blowing during that scene.

>>23314036

How can he be in Essos and on his way to Old Town at once ready to summon a kraken? The timeliness and geography don't add up. I'd say it has a higher chance if being Illyrio

>>23306035
That's literally the Red Wedding. Of course its Robb.

>>23316575
That's what Martin wants you to think.

>>23292247
GRRM is a king of storytelling. What more can be said?

Sucks that he ran out of steam before finishing the series, but what we got so far is probably one of my favorite stories ever.

>>23289919
the show is still fantastic, and it still pulls me in for a watch if someone happens to have it on in the house.

The book is just something else, though. Non-book people will survive with just the show, but if you like books READ THEM FIRST!!!

>>23316033
the Others kind of forgot they were going to go south

>>23316033
God's Eye

>>23296658
Frank Herbert's books are nothing but new age platitudes and exposition. I don't care how good your worldbuilding is, if the quality of your prose fails to actually immerse me in the setting, its failed to invest me in the story.

>>23298815
The right thing to do would be to release the notes and unfinished body of work and let the communities do whatever they like with it.

The reality, however, is that whoever inherits the rights to GRRM's writing after his death will create some kind of trust and sell the rights on a per project basis to publisher/Hollywood/media company that wants to take a crack at adapting the work.

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>>23303654
>>23303929
I can't judge fem-coomers. Sansa x Clegane is based, and their last chapter together in Clash of Kings is one of the best parts of the book.