I don't want to share my work here

>>23295478
That's too bad because you're about to drop the most fire shit I've ever reflected into my retina

if you could be guaranteed X cents USD per word typed, what's the minimum you would quit your job for?
Take the question in good faith, assume some minimum level of effort/prose quality (whatever that means to you)

>>23295478
I'd share my book but I shared it six months ago.

>>23295466
I'm barely scraping together 1000 words a day but so far so good

>>23295483
knight of valora anon? shit was that six months ago or longer

>>23295491
Nah, I'm the Cross-Realms anon.

>>23295478
I've received good feedback here. Scathing, but good

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posted this sample in the last thread, didn't get much feedback.

pls respond

Not a big surprise or anything, but you should be writing for a female audience:
https://www.statista.com/chart/32089/where-reading-is-a-personal-hobby/

>>23295480
so making it a full time job let's assume you can churn out on average 10k intelligible, edited at least once, words of prose for a story every week. 2 weeks off so 500k words a year. doable, certainly. For year one I could settle for 30k a year, so 6 cents a word, which would be nice, but in order to actually be sustainable it would have to grow the years after.

i don't know the keys for success but i'm pretty sure doing the opposite of what /r/menwritingwomen wants is one of them

I think all of my characters are flat and don't develop and are static.

>>23295465
There is no point in continuing with that attitude.
I actually watched a video about Hitler's art yesterday which is relevant here.
Everyone told Adolf his paintings were shit, they pointed out specific parts that he was wrong. But he continued painting but didn't listen to them. And despite farting out more drawings, he never made any effort to improve, so his drawing remained shit.

>>23295525
But are they entertaining?

>>23295532
I don't know they kind of are to me, but they're my babies so of course I would think that way. I'm biased.

>>23295533
Well, a dynamic character with a cliched arc is worth pennies compared to novel static characters.

>>23295519
>nourished by the stories an anecdotes that one so often hears
>that one so often hears
phrased like this it takes me out of the POV. no reason to say stories and anecdotes, either. just say "nourished by the anecdotes I heard while growing up. 'You've grown so much...' "
I also don't like the phrase familial acquaintances. I just don't like it.
>For the coronoers, is the protocol of determining height...
Too wordy
Do coroners usually determine height through simple arithmetic?

So skimming through the rest you have some filtering and filler words you can cut, but my main problem is you create the image that he's being dissected by a coroner on a stainless steel, chemically sanitized operating table, and then you meander away from it and as a reader his location goes from where I thought he may to back to the formless, white void of the writer's imagination. Location changes, season changes, and I feel much less connected to the narrator.

>>23295528
No shit critique is useful, but I'm talking about brand-new beginners. Nobody needs to share their very first attempts at picking up a new skill.

>>23295519

The guy is dead and he's wondering about if he had grown an inch more? You would think that a person who has just been killed has some more meaningful thoughts than the appearance of his body.

In general it is overwritten. It just goes on and on without relief, especially that last paragraph. But I honestly don't think it's going to work. I can't recommend a fix.

>>23295566
Oh, right. My attempt is not my first attempt, but it's the first chapter I would feel comfortable with. It's not My Immortal-level or Empress Theresa tier.
But maybe I should take a break for a few days, re-read it. I heard that helps.

>>23295572
Well askshully(not the writer here), the lead character is wondering if he would have surpassed his father.

Tqbh I would have preferred if someone recently dead was fixated on an inane detail, really seems to fit the mindfuck that being recently deceased would be.

>>23295519
Maybe I'm just a retard, but that first paragraph kind of tripped me up the first time I read it. Too many woulds and passives.
>I used to wonder if I would have continued to grow.
Used to, when he was alive. But when he was alive, he would have wondered if he would keep growing, not if he would have continued to grow. I think you're phrasing it that way to tease the fact that he's dead in the first sentence, but it just makes it read a little awkwardly imo.
Then the next part, Stories and anecdotes. Does it really need to be both? Just say stories.
Also, the stories are regarding the growth patterns of relatives and familial acquaintances. But this is immediately followed by "You've grown so much." I guess it's talking about two different things, but it's a bit confusing, because my brain has sort of been primed to expect the quote to be an example of what what just said.
Personally, would change the first to something like this...
>I used to wonder if I would keep growing. Just one more inch, and I would have surpassed my father's height. It would have solved many arguments at family dinners to come.
>I never really thought I would keep growing--not rationally, at least--but I harbored a faint hope, nourished by the anecdotes one so often hears at my age. "The last time I saw you, you were just this tall," my aunts used to tell me, gesturing at my shoulder. It might seem like a banal achievement to aspire to, but I really wanted to be six feet tall. I was only an inch away.

I do like the way that paragraph is structured around the concept of one more inch. You've got it at the beginning, "just one more inch," and at the end, "only an inch away." So the paragraph starts with this idea, kind of expands on it, digresses slightly, then loops back to it again at the end. I think setting that last phrase as its own sentence would make it even more effective.
>I was only an inch away.

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I have the plot and characters of my book, how should I go about planning it out? Should I just go chapter by chapter?

Are arcs necessary for strong characters/writing?

And can my characters have more than one arc?

>>23295633
>Are arcs necessary for strong characters/writing?
The way I see it, stories are a study of human conditions, and the sequence of actions is merely an excuse to study it and ask questions.

>>23295632
>planning
know some of the big, plot changing events that you're working toward, but then simply write it chapter by chapter trying to get to your next road sign. if your characters take a turn and start wandering another direction, let them. they can always take a little detour before winding up where they need to be

SpaceBattles has turned 25 years old today, and a bunch of fanfiction gets uploaded there so that sounds important

>>23295655
I heard Spacebattles was both heavily insular and also batshit insane. Like a strawman a /pol/ack would create but actually real levels of insane

>>23295659
I read it in hobbydrama that there was a little war between mods during the 2010s where the site shifted from a more liberal outlook to a more far right one, but nowadays its mostly sane I think and not so far right anymore because of a change in moderators.

>>23295659
I mean it's just a place for dorky fanfiction and quests. Some original stuff gets posted there too. But I suppose I don't know what the environment is like on the rest of the forum, I just go there for the creative writing stuff. But my perception of it is just...that it's a male-centric place with a lot of "who would win" and munchkiny style writing

>>23295662
Oh it's right-wing? I heard the opposite, that it was full of troons who went ban-heavy for hate speech and triggering content. I've never really experienced mod power grabs that were right wing in nature

>>23295669
Well I think its more liberal nowadays. It also splintered off into two sites, with Sufficient Velocity being another forum site similar to it.

>>23295669
Pretty sure the sister forum "SufficientVelocity" was literally created because SpaceBattles was going off the rails with alt-right stuff for a while

/wg/ the story you all hated that i wrote is popular and the one you liked isn't getting any traction. is this shit just luck of the draw

>>23295680
>/wg/ mispredicts what is good
>Hm, it must be luck of the draw
Retard, this thread is just filled with retards (as you demonstrated)
Actually, more importantly, what's good isn't what's popular. Nonetheless, you are definitely a retard for this comment

>>23295685
let the boy humblebrag that his sloppily thrown together isekai harem has attracted a slew of barely literate perverts. I do sincerely hope he's fleecing them financially

>>23295685
This isn't some binary where /wg/ being wrong means they're Bizarro and I should do the opposite of what they say you sperg

>>23295692
Retardation doubly confirmed. Where did I say /wg/ was always wrong? I was just saying they're retards and will obviously not get everything right.
Besides, you missed the second point, which is that good doesn't equal popular.
Retard

>>23295521
How do Grug write for female audience?

>>23295691
what's wrong with being a barely literate pervert?

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>>23295708

>>23295713
Damn I would read that story

>>23295713
Based.

>>23295705
required
plain jane everywoman
tall, domineering ,billionaire man
optional:
creatures of the night
another tall, domineering, more down to earth ex special forces veteran for optional love triangle
some stacy bitch the plane jane mc can get even with or who becomes the plane jane's ultimate supporting character

What is this style called?

>>23295812
The prose seems good

Do you people think it's a bad decision to have the protag of my first novel be a massive Nazi sympathizer?
I'm not trying to write /pol/ shit. I just think it can make for an interesting story and dynamic. But I'm also scared that readers won't be able to sympathize with him at all, and I want there to be at least glimmers of relatability in his struggles even though he's objectively not a great person. I know this kind of thing is often done but I worry that the Nazi part is too much of a red flag.

>>23295812
my fucking eyes

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>>23296092
>a massive Nazi sympathizer
>I just think it can make for an interesting story and dynamic
>not trying to write /pol/ shit

>>23296121
Anon I'm serious. The character is not meant to be a good person. That's the whole point. I fucking love writing people who are shitty in various ways and struggle to write "good" characters. Aside from this he's selfish, self-victimizing, ambitious without the work ethic or talent to back it up, screws people over for his own benefit, and several other things. The Nazi sympathizer thing would be relevant to the story because of the time period I'm setting it in and because his dumb wehrabooism drives him to travel across Europe and do all sorts of stupid shit which is the driving force of the story.
In fact if anything it's a satire of /pol/faggotry. But honestly you're right, people might not get it and think it's meant to be taken at face value.

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>Look at my half finished YA slop novel I started as a teenager more critically
>generic Hero's Journey
>Look more critically at the story arc of my current project at the beginning, middle, and end
>generic Hero's Journey
>Check over my notes for future projects or things on the backburner
>generic Hero's Journey

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>>23295466
How realistic is it for someone to desire someone solely because they are heartbroken and want someone who idolizes them?

Is there anything that can possibly be made sympathetic about the person, especially if they are embarrassed to be seen with the worshipper?

I've never written and i lack even the most basic mastery over the language.

I have somewhat of a desire to try it, though.
Should i? If so, where do i start?

how much inspiration is it okay to take from someone else's work?
one of the cities in calvino's invisible cities has really inspired me and i think it would make a great setting for a full novel, where he only gives it 2 paragraphs of description
could i write and publish a novel directly from his concept, acknowledging where the idea came from, or is it too much like copying?

>>23296446
>Should i?
if you want to, then where is the harm in trying? it doesnt matter if its not good or it goes nowhere, but it doesnt hurt to give it a go
>where do i start?
by writing something. it doesnt matter what, it could be a silly idea that pops into your head, it could be a story from your own life, hell you could retell the plot of your favourite movie if you wanted. whatever gets you writing is all good

Any good examples of stories with realistic animals and their journeys? I don't mean talking animals or something childish Something like a dog trying to find it's home, or a flock of bird migrating.

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What are some ways a person might minimize something bad they said?
>You know I didn't mean it right
>It wasn't that bad
>I only did it because of X

What would be some good responses to such attempts at minimization as well?

>>23296490
Watership Down
The Plague Dogs
Any Ernest Seton Thompson story
Bambi (original German novel)
Man-Shy

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If someone is popular before becoming a writer they aren't a real writer.

>>23296561
Thank you!

>>23295480
I'd love to make even a grand a month. I'm disabled and live at home. I don't need to pay for things so far as food and clothing, but I have jack shit for spending money.

>>23296448
you’ll need to make it your own at least in some small way.
>>23296441
>How realistic is it for someone to desire someone solely because they are heartbroken and want someone who idolizes them?
very.
>Is there anything that can possibly be made sympathetic about the person, especially if they are embarrassed to be seen with the worshipper?
of course. among other things you can make the audience sympathize with the character’s embarrassment of the lover. just make them gross and unattractive or something.

>>23296396
I see nothing wrong here.

>>23296562
to r/gatekeeping with you, plebbitor

>>23295480
>quit your job
>job

>>23295466
Trying to set standards, would rate this paragraph above 3/10?
>Perhaps he had a point. Conducas had arrived a mere two years ago. During his tenure, no enemies had been sighted. Yet, the stronghold had seen more than one assault, but back then, Gath had been in charge. “Ringatho the Iron” he had been known, even the fort had echoed his name with pride. But eras begin and end; that man no longer existed. Only “Gath the Goat” stood in front of him.

>>23295480
I have no business quitting my job without an 80k USD advance or a book that actually meets an average 40k advance. If I get any certifications then I will have even less reason to do so. I have enough time to write a book a year already.

>>23295633
If you don't have a character arc, you need a compelling story. Think: Indiana Jones. Jones has no arc at all, he's the same person in every movie, but he goes on wild adventures that are interesting and that makes up for it.

Note that 90% of authors cannot write a compelling story, and you'd better make sure you commit to creating one before writing a flat character. Characters with no arc and a story which isn't interesting is guaranteed not to sell or be picked up.

>>23295812
You can break up these paragraphs for a more interesting flow. You can get away with long paragraphs sometimes, but in general you want to adhere to smaller ones. That doesn't mean delete content, that means press your enter button sometimes.

>>23296562
A "real writer" is someone who gets published. It doesn't matter if they gross dollar one. That dogshit pulp scifi TOR thing you're doing that sells 12 copies at an anime convention makes you a "real writer". I would argue people who self-publish aren't real writers, because it's just vanity at that point.

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>>23296829
>disses self-published writers
there's no other realistic way for young straight male writers to get published

>>23296829
imo someone isnt a real writer until he publishes a second book.

>>23296829
Are successful webslop authors real writers?

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>>23296829
Publishing is a joke, Shad's book is awful, and Brandon Sanderson publishers seriously considered picking up his book
I have listened to 4 reviews of it, and they all were very negative.

>>23296847
Have they considered submitting to overseas publishers? Not every book publisher in the world is run by hook-nosed blue-haired nepobaby fatties from Brooklyn. If you can't fix the problem, go around the problem. Self-publishing looks bad though, and most of those stories end up being thrown into the void of Amazon and never read by anyone.

>>23296859
Webslop writers, if they have a large enough following, eventually transition into being published authors. I think even that guy who wrote the My Little Pony-Fallout crossover is now being published.

>>23296865
Who is Shad?
>Brandon Sanderson publishers seriously considered
Brandon Sanderson's publishers routinely publish his first drafts he did while eating bowl after bowl of Cookie Crisp. He works hard, he makes big money, but his stories aren't going to be remembered that fondly, because he churns them out in two months and doesn't really care about making interesting plots. 1300 pages for a character to realize "I'm sad!" is not an arc.

>>23296873
It's this controversial/cringe HEMA tuber:
https://www.youtube.com/@shadiversity/videos

>>23296865
It doesn't matter if it's good or bad, it matters if it sells.

Why do youtube videos suck so much for learning how to write? I guess it makes sense that the best resources for learning how to write would be in the form of text as well considering the medium

People who try to police what can be written and what can't are censorious. Seriously. Let people write what they want to, it's just fiction. Depiction doesn't always mean promotion of such activities, although I do admit that sometimes it is.

>>23296983
>Seriously. Let people write what they want to, it's just fiction. Depiction doesn't always mean promotion of such activities, although I do admit that sometimes it is.

Nice comma splicing

>>23296996
I'm not a serious writer so I don't care.

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Vol 1 cover

>>23296829
>tradpubbed author only pubbed because of pandering to hot topic social issues with 4 copies sold, then never writes another book is a real writer
>self pubbed or web novelist author with 10s or 100s of thousands of readers, lives off their writing, outputs high amounts of content--not a real writer
You're extra stupid aren't you

>>23296950
Penguin Publishing rejected Closer Look's novel because its "themes didn't match the questions".

>>23297032
>isekai harem plot
>generic video game setting
>shitty anime titty AI cover
>500+ chapters

Yup... I'm a real author!

>>23297043
And pandering to social topics to get pubbed and sell 4 copies is better?

A real writer is someone who writes. As opposed to the people that claim being one but write a few paragraphs a week, if that, and never complete anything.

If you want to define a "respectable author", go ahead, but the given definitions are still retarded.

>>23296873
>not going to be remembered fondly
Dude he has a cult following. Tons of people call Stormlight their favorite book ever, and it will absolutely be remembered fondly.

>>23297065
Gatekeeping is wrong. Also, this definition of a “writer” doesn’t address other aspects of the craft, like being gay or black.

>>23297096
Who said anything about good? Why is /wg/ so illiterate?

Drake is a "real rapper". He raps.
League of Legends is a "real video game". It's a video game.
Two and a half men is a "real TV show". It's a TV show.
Harry Potter is a "real book". It's a book.

Web novelists are real writers. They write. Self-pubbed authors are real writers. They write. The only people who aren't real writers are the posers who say there are but don't actually output anything.

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>>23294413
>what program did they use to make it look like that
That was done using Canva, but it's pretty limited afaik.

Some other more capable typesetting programs are Adobe InDesign (monthly plans), Affinity Publisher (one-time purchase), and Scribus (free). There's another thread on the subject and the posts here >>23288009 >>23291726 (etc.) go over some basics of typesetting, which are useful no matter what program you use. The look is going to depend on how you make it; no program will magically make it your magazine good, but a good program should give you the tools to do it.

I made the magazine at the Mega link (pic rel) in two (long) nights with Scribus and I'm no pro, though it's pretty janky in spots (there are examples of ways to improve it in the thread above). It helps to copy professional magazines and books when you start out.
https://mega.nz/file/Ow0lQZLK#Gz1w543YSvOmdnqSrzOy3jX7sNjYg8Um-wiHkn6TH-Q

>>23295633
>And can my characters have more than one arc
From my own experience, yes, but also no.
If it's a short story or even a single novel length story (80K words) then you probably shouldn't try to do multiple arcs which would take up too much story time.
I'm doing a webnovel, and my MC has gone through multiple arcs because it's a long story and it started with him as a child.
But another story that I've been writing is meant to be novel length and I have only one intended arc for my main character.

>self publishing
>le bad
what decade are you living in? the top best selling author for the last several years self published for years and the publishing companies came to her with bags of money to get the rights. unless you're some money laundering politically connected hack self publishing is going the way of the dodo, for better or worse, and while technology certainly shares some of the culpability, it's largely because the people in the publishing industry are hideous garbage

>>23295486
Word count means nothing idiot

>>23297216
Jesus Christ is your period key broken my nigga? We just had a thread last night about comma splicing! Control yourself

>>23297242
every comma offsets a dependent clause
go take middle school english again, pleb

>>23297241
>word countlet
It does if you're writing retard

>>23297242
there is not a single comma splice in that post, and there is nothing wrong with comma splicing anyway. you retards are just absolutely hopeless

>>23297303
it's 4chan what do you expect. Noone here talks about word choice or the actual craft of writing. All they care about is inane shit like grammer and page layout of all things. Just purely pathetic.

>>23297303
There is definitely something wrong with comma splicing in prose. Obviously there are stylistic exceptions, but if you're just retardedly splicing wherever because you don't know better, it's a huge problem.

>>23297336
If the works posted here have glaring grammar issues, of course they get brought up first. If we didn't have such shit writers and instead had people who could submit something that was free of basic grammar errors, then we could focus on deeper topics. But that never fucking happens, because everyone here is a beginner

>>23297360
is that you Nasu

>>23297463
>There is definitely something wrong with comma splicing in prose.
one of the most famous opening lines in the history of the novel is just a dozen comma splices in a row. nobody cares. it's a fake problem invented by and for high school teachers, it doesn't matter outside of the classroom.

>>23297479
No, but do post this so I can read it

>>23296789
Any paragraph is worth 0 when removed from the context.

>>23297065
An author is someone who not only produces legitimately published works, but also someone the society recognizes as an author, who is included in the literary circles of his culture, and pursues a career and lifestyle of artistry. While these web scribblers are only recognizes as "trash", "clowns", and "hacks" by the world at large.

>>23297463
>obviously there are stylistic exceptions, but...
This board is genuinely illiterate

>>23297639
>An author is someone who
writes. End quote.

>>23297499
>>23297647
Meant for this

>>23297639
The world at large doesn't have any kind of exacting standards. You realize by popularity ("general interest and acceptance") web novels are wholly recognized, hence their popularity.
You mean literary circles despise them. If you're going to be a snob at least get it right.

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I love writing but I get such bad headaches when I do it

>>23297653
>>23297647
if your rule is "don't do this, except when you should" then it's not a rule, it's nothing, you're just trying to hold on to something mrs johnson said in 10th grade but mrs johnson was conning you and you're a sucker. it's not that there are exceptions, it's that there is no rule. it's only a classroom thing, for children.

>>23297762
It's a general guideline with exceptions

>>23297765
please articulate the guideline and its exceptions in an actionable way

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I wrote this yesterday, I'm getting back into writing so it maybe sloppy.

Any criticism you can give is appreciated.

>>23297639
nah, fuck off jew. your literary circles of culture have no legitimacy

>>23297790
Nothing much to add that seems nice.
I'd change the order of the clauses in the first sentence.

>>23297785
It must always be followed except when not doing so produces a better result.
Want me to define "better result"?
It's art retard. That's not possible.
That doesn't mean 99% of comma splicing in amateur works isn't horrendous and should absolutely be removed
Sorry that the concept of "guidelines" is such a scary concept to you

>>23297808
Write it as, "A fleeting buzz emanates around him, Joesph continues to his pursuit of where his bug may have began" ?

Thanks

How much detail is too much when describing combat? Does anyone have any examples of well written combat for me to draw from?

>>23297814
>It must always be followed except when not doing so produces a better result.
hilarious. so in order to successfully utilize the "don't comma splice" rule i have to compare the result of using the rule with the result of not using the rule, every time, on a case by case basis, using a facility to judge "results" that renders the rule unnecessary in the first place. the guideline is actually "only use good comma splicing, not bad comma splicing, no i can't define those." how did i ever live without your sage advice?

>Sorry that the concept of "guidelines" is such a scary concept to you
your guideline is literally, LITERALLY, "make it good not bad." that's not a guideline. you're just larping as your high school teacher mr johnson on the internet, except she got paid to lie about this crap and you just do it to feel like an "expert"

>>23297660
better than game of throwns

>/wg/: comma splicing general

>>23297790
You can just say "click". It's obvious from the context that he's on the computer. "As if he's [a] blindfolded child". Add the accent for piñata. Unnecessary commas with the "yet"; just use "but" instead. Not sure if the Buddhist simile quite works.

You switch verb tenses in the second paragraph. "Amiss", not "a miss". Pain doesn't pour; find a different verb. "Crashing" and "resides" also feel wrong. Colon instead of a comma after "allergy". Don't capitalize bee unless you're essentially making it a character.

>>23297878
Yeah the buddhist simile was a tough one, I tried and couldn't of something better. Thank you for the pointers for the grammatical errors. I'm definitely gonna take this in account for the next time I write, thank you again

>>23297852
man you really don't understand how art works do you? There are no rules, only guidelines, and you're genuinely the first retard I've seen sperg out at the concept
/wg/ is way too funny

>>23297839
My pet peeve when reading combat is unclear "stage directions", for the lack of a better term. I want a clear picture in my mind's eye of what's unfolding. That means precise language, but more importantly it requires an understanding of action cinematography. You want the reader to play a movie scene in their head. As the writer, you are directing this scene with the words you choose and the tone you set.

Fight scenes are exciting to watch in a visual medium. The written word is at a disadvantage here. Absent of that visual medium, the best you can achieve is the evocation of a cinematic experience in the reader's imagination. Any techniques that help you accomplish that are helpful. Any habits that hinder that goal and make the scene confusing, bland, or laughable are to be avoided.

Good luck anon.

>>23297877
It's just one weird troll bringing it up over and over, because, for some reason, it's apparently really good bait

>>23297790
I don't like your blinded child looking for a pinata simile. it doesn't mechanically fit with him sitting in a chair clicking his mouse

>>23297909
How about "the fan was emitting its normal hum and spinning with the same regularity as the Earth's daily rotation."

Kinda gay actually. Maybe "the fan was undisturbed in its spinning, like a wheel forever rolling down a gentle slope".

Even gayer, but you get what I mean. The point of figurative language is to portray an image that's actually relevant to what you're describing.

>>23297911
>There are no rules, only guidelines,
you posses no rules AND no guidelines. "make it good" is not a guideline, nobody can do anything with that. you just memorize and repeat these pieces of pseudo-advice because it makes you sound knowledgeable in your head, but it has nothing to do with the skill of writing, it's just playing pretend.

>>23297966
wow the concept of guidelines is truly shattering your mental, isn't it? keep having a meltdown it's funny

>>23297963
Yeah along with this anon >>23297948 it's a good point. It fits the idea of what I want but it isn't really relatable to the situation. Those are good examples though, thanks for that response. I'll prob edit it to get it more concise.

>>23297983
you just straight up don't know what the word "guideline" means in english. it might help you to break it up into parts. if you can't follow it, it's not a "guide line." hope this helps.

>>23298025
Keep it going

>>23298035
no problem. your fixation on calling your non-advice "guidelines" instead of "rules" comes from a kind of narcissist's false humility where you don't claim to have precise, but only "approximate" knowledge of how to write. of course this serves to conceal that you don't know anything at all, not even approximately, but are rather repeating things you heard others say without any substantial grasp of them, or ability to defend them when challenged, as seen itt. you will grow gray still typing "don't use speech verbs other than said" and you still won't know how to write. that's it for now, if you want more you'll have to give me more to work with.

>>23298076
LMAO thanks

>https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/77558/project-17-sen-no-fukai/chapter/1600167/side-story-4-life-in-the-venator-tower
I tried to write something more slice of life. How'd I do?
Writing like 50 thousand words of non stop action is tiring.

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This is a passage from the first chapter of my story. Please rate, if you can.

Maro stared at the blade. The plan had gone perfectly, even better than he could have hoped. In fact, the whole thing had been too easy. But why was his hand trembling? Now that it was over, he felt hollow, and there was nothing in the world that could fill him again. He expected a catharsis, but he knew with a certainty that

Vonny called from the next room. "Maestro?"

"Leave me be." He nudged the balcony door closed before she could protest. He trusted her more than any of his cronies, but he didn't feel like talking. "I'm done explaining myself," he mumbled to himself and swallowed a gulp of clean air in an attempt to calm himself down.

Cleaning the blood from the blade, he studied the marks it made on the cloth of his vest. Royal blood, but it looked the same as any he'd seen before. Weren't the high and mighty supposed to be filled with something different? Something better? "Awfully mortal," he thought. "Pitifully powerless and frail, just like the rest of us."

Maro was tired, an aptless burden was weighing down his heart. No amount of blood could change the way he felt. He refrained from drinking and women were not the ideal aftertaste following a battle. He felt a kind of exhaustion that couldn't be soothed away. A smile crept across his mouth. The Maestro, exhausted. And yet, something else. What was it he was feeling, exactly?

He'd looked into Lord Varrano's eyes the very moment his life slipped away. And in that moment a thought occurred to him: He'd made a mistake. He'd been misled, outsmarted. Mero shook his head, as if physical pain could erase the contents of his brain. "That kind of thinking is useless", he said to himself. He was just as dead, whether he regretted it or not. But he'd seen his true face reflected in Attano's eyes; seen himself for what he really was. Not a renowned assassin, not some great shaper of history. Just another playing piece in an unknowable game. A spreader of death and decay, no different than the blade he wielded or the vial of poison in his pocket.

He felt disgusted with himself, so much that his last meal rushed up his oesophagus, causing him to vomit into the water of the canal, retching and shuddering. Mero was too preoccupied with breathing heavily and coughing to notice that Vonny had crept up behind him and placed a hand on his shoulder.

"We've got a problem, Maestro. A big one," her voice was layered with a tint of grief. She lowered her head, staring at the blood-tainted marble floor and cleared her throat. "The Benefactor is here. Says that the debt is due. A whole squadron is waiting for his orders, stationed all around the district. How are we to procceed?"

"Ahh," Mero growled and wiped his right hand sleeve on his mouth. "We present to him the corpse of his highborn cousin. Let's see what he has to say about that."

>>23298314
if you're asking for feedback just post the entire 1st chapter in a pastebin

>a catharsis
catharsis

>he knew with a certainty that
?

>cronies
would he really refer to his own people as cronies?

>Cleaning the blood from his blade, he studied the marks it made on the cloth of his vest.
So he's wiping the murder weapon off on his own vest? What? And why would he study the vest and not the now clean knife?

>Awfully mortal," he thought. "Pitifully powerless and frail, just like the rest of us."
"As mortal and as frail as the rest of us," he thought.

>aptless
no

>He refrained from drinking and women were not the ideal aftertaste following a battle
tense confusion

I don't know why this great assassin is suddenly being hit by pangs of conscience

>We've got a problem, Maestro. A big one."
Maestro, there's a problem.

>The Benefactor is here. Says that the debt is due.
combine

how does she know " A whole squadron is waiting for his orders, stationed all around the district."

And is his name Maro or Mero?

>>23295466
How's this premise:
>A newly found kingdom long entangled in disputes with its bloodthirsty foes threatens to be succumbed by internal conflict when its monarch dies mysteriously. The all-but-disinherited firstborn of the King finds himself entangled in the tricks of the corrupt nobility as he travels to the Capital to arbiter the election of a new king. If he fails to prevent the eruption of authority, the realm might find itself divided and falling into the hands of its former overlords.

Isekai-sloplordbros,
would a story with multiple protagonist with different harems still be considered cuckshit by populus consuming the genre or am I schizoing out?
I will still write it the way I want just for myself but if I would as well get a bit of an audience it would flare that additional dopamine into the brain and that's nice.

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>>23298452
I feel like you might want to make the different protagonists the complete opposite. It's an effective writing technique.
Make it poetry:
>protagonist A is hot, and every woman wants to fuck him, but he hates women
>protagonist B is ugly, wants to fuck, but all women hate him

>>23298452
harems are not as desirable for readers as vanilla, overpowered protag isekai
harems imply multiple characters, and with multiple protagonists having multiple harems your story could get very unwieldy very quickly

>>23298452
Why do you need multiple protags? Not really suited to the genre, like at all

Do you guys submit stuff for publication? If so, where do you go to find calls for submission?

>>23298478
>>23298480
The initial idea for multiple protagonists with each own harem came out, because I have too many ideas for women and their synergies which I don't want to waste.

There are also chapters based characters without harems or more degenerate (real) versions of them for more (clearly) morally corrupt characters.

I want to do the classroom isekai on somewhat akin to spider isekai.
Harem protagonists doing nation building autism to enrich the lore of the world and the rest of the class making an overarching plot for the conclusion.

There's also another 'ick' of me wanting to include smut protagonists with their harems.

>>23296512
>Look, all I said is that jews run the media.
>I didn't say THE jews. There's a difference!

>>23298543
>I have too many ideas for women and their synergies
so, slightly chubby goth gf. preppy stacy, shortstack cutie, notice me senpai uguu, sporty tomboy gf, etc?
I suggest masturbating before each writing session in order to best minimize cringe.

>>23298540
Story requirement, I want to put in qualitty because I do so to all my works.

The setting itself is a living battlefield.
One of the harem protags is a necromancer so I can go wild with undead constructs (hybrid experimentations, spirit experimentations (putting a souls of a swordsman and sorcerer into a single body so you get a schizofrenic mess with the battle capability of both), spirit blacksmithing, exploration overall of what an undead and spirit is, and finally ghost and vampire waifus (I am too much of a coward for zombie ones).

While rest of the class is divided into 3 groups each led by the archetype of a chad:
>a caring gentleman searching for righteousness (basically a JoJo),
>an asshole obsessed with fame and hierarchy,
>a psychopath having fun killing anything in brutal ways.
This intersected with unlucky reincarnators having violent schizofrenia.
And the major antagonist starting from an underdog postion from the class.

>>23298571
Most romance could be ridiculed like that, but something not on the list is vampire bigshot hating all women despite herself being one and acting like a "woman moment" is non-applicable to her.

>>23298592
gl bro. I look forward to eventually, possibly, maybe reading your chapter 1

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Rate my style.
I thought this was a cool hook, but I'm not sure where to go with this story.

>>23298608
>gl bro.
Thanks.
>I look forward to eventually, possibly, maybe reading your chapter 1
Biggest problem with this however is how to try it make least sloppy while I am aiming to make it most reader friendy possible.
I'm wondering whether I should open with the Goddess doing introductory bullshit or open with the suicide bomber on the graduation day [important to the plot (ironically connected to vampire waifu as well far in the story)].
I'll still ask, is the hook too grand making it cringy?
I am troubled on how to make the whole class isekaid not cringy and that's difficult to imagine.

>>23298638
>Goddess doing introductory bullshit
no
>the suicide bomber on the graduation day
yes

>>23298638
Isekai is cringe by nature so I think you should just stop caring about that, though a grad party suicide bomber sounds better since it's best to stray from exposition dumps

>>23298640
>>23298644
Thanks.
>Isekai is cringe by nature so I think you should just stop caring about that,
I just cannot lie to myself how much I loathe this ever degenerating world and as such it is reflected in my artistic work being isekais, far too much every sector media degraded by past decade without giving any hope for a better future especially as a /v/irgin where 6th gen console were a fucking promo of what software technology is capable of

>>23298664
Why does it have to be isekai? Why can't you write a fantasy world with a protagonist who lives and has a history in that world?

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First time asking for feedback, last bit is cut off. Looking for constructive criticism, also let me know if I should format the screenshots differently. Thank you.

>>23298684
Catharsis in voicing out internal screams, and I still try to make the otherworlder aspect important theme wise.

The specific story of mine I am bit describing here with these post has isekaijins overall ingrained into the world since 6 main gods isekaijins playing Warhammer, need the "vidya mechanics" (while trying my best to de-vidyafy them) for the class when I can get extreme 'rule of cool':
>necromancer chooses a cheat of item box so he can store a very angry chunky draugh ready to rampage while looking he's summoned by breaking the veil of reality.
And is actually less retarded when necromancer protag would do an undead flesh car.
I am unapologetically obsessed with 'rule of cool', chainsaw is the best weapon in existance and strapping it onto anything is beautiful

>>23298730
I don't like the 1st paragraph and I'd start with the 2nd. Any of the absolutely critical information in the 1st paragraph can be relayed later - preferably organically, after he's been arrested or something.

I got 93 thousand words and just need to finish it so I can edit. Almost there.

>>23298797
jesus

>>23298797
>not editing chapter by chapter

>>23298797
congrats. when your draft is done you'll be roughly 50% there

I'm so fucking lonely. I'm gonna write a self insert story where I am cooler and have friends.

how come /trash/ and /isekai/ generals keep getting deleted? /lit/ sucks

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How common is it to start writing for the first time ever and immediately have ~50k words of haphazardly linked stories?

It feels magical to start writing a simple idea down so I don't forget it, only for it to cascade and turn into 9 hours of inspiration, but I know from past experience that nobody ever has unique experiences, so is this just a thing every new writer gets as a result of unbottling their ideas for the first time?

Also, is there a good app for planing and experimenting with a timeline to untangle all this spaghetti? Something that would let me place notes and move them around? That's my biggest hurdle. I know the biggest arcs but not how the arcs relate to each other.

>>23299112
This was my experience a while ago, and now I make a living writing. (inb4 genre seethers). It shows you have passion for the craft and is a great indicator of future success.
However, you probably suck right now. This isn't unexpected and don't let it discourage you. Focus on improving

>>23299112
its common. They used to call it having a good imagination. when i was a kid my first book was a wildly strung-together ensemble of (legally distinct) characters, plot devices and narratives. All of it was shite and not worth keeping, but youll find every time you slap something out, it will need editing like everything else. Its just a part of the process

>>23298797
quality over quantity. you dont want to end up a steffen king.

>>23299106
because there's already a /trash/ board for /trash/ discussions?

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>>23298734
the rule of kewl doesnt have to be an embarassing self indulgence. A character with proper motivation, characterisation and thematic build up actually benefit more whenever you give them their moment in the spotlight.
traits that animu characters sorely arent written with.

>lazy example

>>23299163
yeah being a household name and international bestselling author would be terrible

>>23299189
dude stop you're going to summon the spergs and derail the thread

>>23299189
goatse is a household name too

>>23299209
It's not 2012 anymore. More people probably recognize niko avacados asshole these day than goatse's.

>>23299106
>/trash/

we already have /wwoym/

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>>23299196
>calling people who hate fetish laden, bloated, egomaniacal, fanfic-tier authors "spergs"

>>23299224
What's wrong with a little wish fulfillment and self indulgent fanfiction every here and there. C'mon, what's up with you.

>>23299229
nothing at first. then it became the only thing anyone knows how to write

>>23299169
yeah but they don't talk about actual writing topics, how to make those stories. but jannies delete any web novel threads. I just want to be free of the pseuds (as I'm sure they want to be free of me)

>>23299278
>only thing anyone knows how to write
Low IQs do tend to get caught up in bubbles. The vast, vast majority of people only care about trad pub books. 4chan is just inherently hooked into internet and anime culture. absolutely does not represent the world at large. the "problem" is in your head

>>23299188
Journey to the west is rule of cool children with action figures with plot holes abound, but it’s episodically gripping and moving and THE GREAT SAGE EQUAL TO HEAVEN is one of the most interesting characters I’ve seen in a while. Because of its inconsistency, every solution to a problem is unique. No longer do I scream “why didn’t they just ride the eagles to Mordor?” It’s literally about the journey. It’s so fun. I feel the wonder of childhood again.

>>23299286
I'n guessing you havent been to any of the many amateur writer sites. Sorry, but I cant stomach most of what people today spit up. I have a hard enough time sifting through art and
music sites. Ive accepted amateur lit as a lost cause years ago.

>>23299307
Congrats, you reinforced my point while remaining completely self unaware. You are a true low IQ

Why am I even bothering I didn’t lead an interesting life this dreck is just wish fulfillment of what a world might be like if I hadn’t emotionally died as a child due to bullying and a shitty family.

>>23299597
>bawww it's everyone else's fault I can't motivate myself!

>>23298554
Kek that's a good one

Not sure what to write for responses. I think having the other person want to leave and the first realizing the depths of what they did might cause them to change their tune

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>>23298619
It's a bit unclear what William is doing, is he manipulating gravity with magic to not, fall, is he pulling a move like Dio where he's standing on the wall through sheer muscular force? And why would that help him ?

>>23299282
maybe you need to admit that what you want to discuss is too lame, even for 4chan
>>23299219
good point. take your trash to /wwoym/

>>23299597
then write something about the life you wish you had, overcoming your shitty childhood and accomplishing something in defiance of all the bastards that tried to hold you down

>>23299597
All happy families are alike; each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way.

>>23298730
"I was found" should end in colon or period. Comma after "information". Semicolon after "giants", perhaps? Nice figurative language here btw.

Maybe "traded away" instead of "traded it". Your "intention was curiosity" sentence uses the passive voice and should be edited. Overall, nice exposition in the first paragraph.

Your second paragraph is adequate but I would advise you to be more concrete and less abstract at this point. Who is our speaker? Where is he physically situated? Give us a sense of place and time, even if it's just a brief mention (or a passing hint). You may also want to carry the surveilling eye metaphor a bit further here, instead of mentioning it once and then referring it as "it" over and over again. Instead of saying "it never lost interest", say "the eye never lost interest", or perhaps even "the eye never blinked". You can do more interesting stuff when you assign a working identity to this entity rather than leaving it so nebulous.

Spell out six instead of saying 6. I see you're pursuing the eye metaphor here, which addresses my earlier point (though my suggestion stands; your second paragraph can be improved in this way). Your technobabble is pretty good here btw, it feels real and shouldn't alienate too many readers.

Overall, you do a good job of creating a paranoid, suspenseful atmosphere. I worry that this segment is overlong, since not much actually happens and you repeat yourself a lot. Depending on the rest of your story though, this may not matter. Idea to break the monotony: During your next plot development, change the scene to somewhere else and give us a look at your world rather than just one guy's computer screen.

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>>23295466
Well, considering anons here helped me, I might as well post the first chapter. The few people who read it didn't think it was too bad. The genre is historical fantasy/ political drama.
Decide if you want to read it based on this blurb:

>A newly found kingdom long entangled in disputes with its bloodthirsty foes threatens to be succumbed by internal conflict when its monarch mysteriously dies. The all-but-disinherited firstborn of the King finds himself entangled in the tricks of the corrupt nobility as he travels to the Capital to arbiter the election of a new king. If he fails to prevent the eruption of authority, the realm might find itself divided and falling into the hands of its former overlords.

https://pastebin.com/zBcxZhmj

>>23300084
Improved since you posted earlier snippets. The dialogue is more natural now. Zobozand is a dumb name though.

>>23295705
Start by reading books by female authors written for female audiences. You can read newer authors like Sarah J. Maas, but the ones you really want to study are authors who began publishing in the 20ths century and who are still writing and publishing today. Authors with this kind of long-term success are not accidental. They know what they're doing, and you can learn a lot from studying their books. Nora Roberts is the most obvious one. I'd recommend her Year One series. It's like The Stand, but for women. She also writes under the pseudonym J.D. Robb. Patricia Briggs is another good one. Her Mercy Thompsom books are enjoyable.

>>23300133
>Zobozand is a dumb name though.
Well, this probably doesn't make it better, but know that there is thought put into its etymology. Whatever it is memorable I'm not sure.
Zobozand is a compound name
zobo = "stone"
zand = "valley"

Zobozand and the fallen kingdom Deystro ("new forest") used to be part of the united kingdom of Zoezand (little forest).

>>23300149
>Zoezand (little forest)
*little valley

>>23300149
>Well, this probably doesn't make it better
It actually does

>>23299791
/wwoym/ isn't a writing general
I mean I'm just gonna keep shitting up this thread instead, pretty funny you're happy that the containment generals I want get deleted. instead /wg/ will continue to be bogged down with isekai and web novel conversations and all the rage posting that stems from those too. such is life I guess

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>Second draft came out at about 77000 words
I was aiming for 100k at least. Think I should stuff more in as filler or just leave it short as fuck? I recon after edits it will be about 85k or so

>Major story arc ends in a climatic court case
>Considering throwing it all out and starting over from scratch because I know nothing about law and all attempts to learn law gives me headaches
>"wait a minute... nobody in this scene knows law either" (kangaroo trial)
>Scene devolves into both sides making up laws and studies to a gullible jury, eventually the party starts calling themselves up to the stand as "expert witnesses" in fields they know nothing about
I find it funny that I started off trying to make a super accurate court scene and wound up with a mockery of a court scene.

I've had a handful of published short stories, none paying. I've had friends and family tell me that my work is good. I've always been creative. But last year I suffered a series of rejections for a story that I was extremely proud of and thought was very inventive. Since then I've tried numerous other endeavors/hobbies, but none of them have panned out and have actually ended in pretty bad failures. Now, I've decided I want to write again. The problem is that I seem to have created some sort of mental block. I can't write, despite having the synopsis of several stories completed and ready to go, I just can't do it. I can't even get out my laptop and stare at the blank screen, I can't even get that far. I don't know what to do.

>>23300633
>Considering throwing it all out and starting over from scratch because I know nothing about it
that's been one of my biggest hurdles picking writing up again
I never used to give a shit about accuracy but I have to catch myself all the time now looking up stupid shit instead of just rolling with. Literally today I had to stop myself going down the rabbit hole of if Pumice is commonly found on islands, if it could actually hold up someone's weight if there was enough, etc etc
It's not even a nonfiction story

>>23300149
If it's supposed to be a bouncy sounding name, sure. The alliteration + obo makes it sound like a kids playpark, or worse, zand sounding like one of those 90s notFantasy fill-in words for land/sand.
Zolosund, Soloezand, Zoloin, or just reverse it to Zandzobo

>>23300652
what genre do you write?

>>23300668
>alliteration
like Riverunn?
I'm not add letters, because that would change the meaning of the root words, all I can shorten it.
Perhaps Obozan?

>>23300652
Just push yourself to write whatever is on your mind in the simplest way possible. Whether it's pen and paper, on your phone, laptop, etc. You just gotta push past the wall and create word vomit. Don't expect anything you write to be worth showing, just do it so you have something written.

>>23300669
I'm not ashamed to admit that it's genre fiction most of the time, usually horror or sword and sorcery fantasy. I don't see anything wrong with just writing something fun. Though I did once write a short story about an old woman dressing up and pretending to have a date with her high school sweetheart that had passed away recently that she never had a life with. That one actually made my wife tear up and cry over how depressing and heart wrenching it was.

>>23300681
I suppose I've already done that then, as I have three or four synopses written out. I just can't bring myself to do anything with them.

>>23300685
Absolutely nothing wrong with it

>>23300084
>The Sun gave birth to another day
Stopped reading there. No good story can begin like this.

>>23300704
Sorry if I was sounding defensive there, sometimes in these threads you have to defend your writing for things that you shouldn't have to defend it for.

>>23300679
Yeah the double z's makes it seem a little goofy
I figured you didn't want to mess up the root but which is why I don't think swapping order with Zandzobo is awful
But something like 'obozan or zob'zan is good too, even if it's just verbal slang of the proper name

>>23300711
I knew people would have issues with this line, I considered this line so I considered omitting it, but it's thematically relevant to the entire chapter.

Full line is:
>The Sun gave birth to another day, interrupting the garrison commander’s slumber.
I will explain what means and why matters. It will be pretentious as fuck, but again there is a lot meaning behind it.

>The Sun
Is generally accepted as the representation of god and the center of the universe. So, in theory, everything exists because of the Sun, and so does this story.

>gave birth
The act of procreation is the continuation of your lineage. And we procreate to establish a legacy, which is what the story is about.
The reason why I didn't use "sired" or "fathered" is because the act of birth is generally considered painful, and so will the protagonist's change of life.

>another
This signals that the life of the protagonist is in a state of stagnation.
It also reveals that there other days, so in theory it's implies a competition with the offspring.

>day
Is comparable to offspring.

>interrupting
This foreshows the events of the chapter as much like the Sun interrupts the protagonist and wakes him up, the Rider will arrive and change life of the protagonist forever

>garrison commander
Introduction of the protagonist.

>slumber
This again reinforces the idea that the protagonist's life is in a state of stagnation.

So, I think there are worse ways to begin a story.

>>23300786
>yeah, I know it's bad
>but...
how about you swallow your autism and immediate defensive reaction and actually consider that it may not actually be a good start to the story. Why, oh God why, must you insist on starting the story with the guy waking up? Don't do that. Calling it hackneyed and cliche doesn't even do it justice.

I actually like isekai settings when used as an opportunity to give the main character a chance to right their wrongs, or fulfill desires they failed to accomplish in their past life.

I just hate how it's become synonymous with shitty overpowered anime harem fantasy.

>>23300689
Just keep doing that in my opinion. Keep fleshing out ideas but don't do it with the expectation of making anything great, use it to work the muscle.

>>23300806
>must you insist on starting the story with the guy waking up? Don't do that.
It wasn't my first idea, I wanted to start the story with a tense confrontation. But I realized it was too much thrown at once, so I made a slower start so I can unwrapping things.
But tell me why is it a bad start? Everything has done been done to death.

>>23300847
It is especially cliche as fuck. Here's an article about it.
>https://allwritealright.com/when-and-how-to-write-a-character-waking-up/
I'll quote the most relevant section that pertains to precisely what you just said.
>If you’re going to show a character waking up, make sure there’s a good reason for it. If you just don’t know how else to start a story, and you have your character wake up and start making coffee, chances are your readers are going to get bored.
You did not throw too much at your reader before. I guarantee. And now you are punishing your poor reader. Don't do that.

>>23296162
>>23296092
By having him be blatantly a political character, you're inherently writing a /pol/ story.
You can have a character that's a bad person, and likes some of the nazi ideology, but by specifically going for Nazis you're going to be specifically talking about politics, and that's off putting for everyone and will age like garbage.

>>23300786
It may well be full of thematic symbols, but the question is: why is this guy waking up in the morning weighted with so many symbolic trappings and such artificial language? It's not clear to the reader. It feels disproportionate and out of place. Maybe that language could work if, you know, someone was watching dawn break at last after a long battle, but only because you've built up to it, and got the reader into the appropriately weighty, reflective mood.

In contrast, the image of getting out of bed and 'believing he would distinguish himself today' is - at least to me - nice and engaging. It's a thought I have had when getting out of bed. It feels grounded in the world, and it's a sentence that's trying to interest me instead of trying to impress me.

>>23300837
I mean, I can do that. But if I'm being 100% honest, I don't know what good it's going to do me to write a 5-10 page synopsis and then do nothing with it. It's just going to sit around in my notebook and collect dust.

>>23300872
NTA but I have a chapter late in the book that starts with already awake character in bed when said character should be asleep, and later show normal routines laced with animosity and paranoia. I understand that the cliche level of mundane + no conflict in "wakes up" scenes puts readers to sleep, but what about settings I described, where it's not really about the routine but rather the elephant in the room?

>>23299310
you claimed the problem was just on 4chan. ut clearly is not. maybe you ought to check your "IQ" score instead

>>23300979
>a chapter late in the book
not relevant to what I was saying. in your case the reader is already invested and there are already plot threads moving and your character being in bed simply just happens to be where they should be.
And that is not to say that you absolutely cannot start with your character waking up in bed, but unless you're doing so because they've been abducted by aliens in the middle of the night, or something equally outlandish, there are a million better ways for your reader to get a first picture of your protag.

>>23299962
Thank you for the feedback, I've implemented most of it outside of the physical location in the second paragraph since that comes on the next page. I very much so appreciate it though.
>>23298771
Thank you as well, though I think I'm going to keep the first paragraph. I understand what you're saying, but I think it's good for setting the tension of his scenario. I will see about improving or perhaps shortening it a bit though.

>>23300711
Okay but hear me out...
What if we anthropomorphize the sun and the giving birth is a literal event described in explicit detail?

>>23301294
>They rode on and the sun in the east flushed pale streaks of light and then a deeper run of color like blood seeping up in sudden reaches flaring planewise and where the earth drained up into the sky at the edge of creation the top of the sun rose out of nothing like the head of a great red phallus until it cleared the unseen rim and sat squat and pulsing and malevolent behind them. The shadows of the smallest stones lay like pencil lines across the sand and the shapes of the men and their mounts advanced elongate before them like strands of the night from which they’d ridden, like tentacles to bind them to the darkness yet to come

>>23299217
The West has fallen...

>>23300827
>I actually like isekai settings when used as an opportunity to give the main character a chance to right their wrongs, or fulfill desires they failed to accomplish in their past life.
It's a shame, since the concept can be a great start. But it is overwhelmingly bland wish fulfillment in the bad way.

>>23300872
I just find it to be an overreaction.
It could be better, but it could be much worse.
Maybe change it at some point, but it really shouldn't be enough to filter.

Regardless, the article's point isn't "avoid at all", but "make it interesting and meaningful".

>>23301400
>But it is overwhelmingly bland wish fulfillment in the bad way.
Basically, and I don't really understand how it got to this point.
It works when it's literally just generic fantasy, but someone has a previous life's memory or just teleported dimensions through whatever means.

But somehow it's become meta upon meta fanfiction writing. I guess it was inevitable when it started becoming
>it's LITERALLY ME in isekai!
But I feel like the normal fantasy ones rather than the meta ones are always the ones that are considered better stories, almost universally at that.

>>23301543
You have the go back to the sources, which are Brave Story, Haibane Renmai (and murakami by proxy), and .hack//sign. There are others, but I think those predate isekai as the thing it is now. The whole dying thing wasn't so loud and prominent, not in the more formative works, and pointed to an unreality to it all. Or it was death and an afterlife with a very philosophical angle of moving on.

When that was lost and it started sucking itself off with haremshit, it was done.

>>23301567
>Murakami is responsible for the isekai
Damn...

Is there a term for the common issue writers fall into where they desperately try to make their protagonist an underdog, despite writing them as an extremely competent person who pretty much always succeeds at their task?

There was a book I read that made me notice how bad it was, and now I'm seeing it everywhere and it's really god damn annoying.

>>23301567
>the sources
>some weeb shit
How about Alice in Wonderland, A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court or The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe

hell even The Odyssey or Gulliver's Travels could potentially be considered proto-isekai

>>23301605
Mary Sue.

>>23301612
Nips making derivate weebshit are inspired by weebshit. Weebs ripping them off are still ripping off weebshit. It's pretty simple.

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I'm the anon from this post >>23297790. I wrote something new. I'm trying to write each day if possible. I wrote this western/scifi short story. Any feedback is appreciated. I hadn't edited this like the previous one so there could be some sloppiness with the grammar.

>>23301660
seems very poetic I don't much to add, well done guess. I'm not sure what the context is

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>>23301612
>>23301567
>>23301619
Something funny is that I was reading this story strongly inspired by Japanese isekai, and it had a scene that made me think. The main character has a genuine breakdown over never being able to see his family and friends again and that's not counting his initial shock and anger(One of the first scenes is him beating the young priestess who summoned him with a switch). I wondered why a scene like that was almost never in Eastern Isekai stories despite making sense when you think about it, and it's because most of them are just vehicles for power fantasy and wish fulfillment, so a scene showing the MC as being deeply upset about their new circumstance is a no go.

>>23301854
>so a scene showing the MC as being deeply upset about their new circumstance is a no go.
there's a few.
most are because losers want to escape their shitty life and for some reason think a medieval hellhole overrun by monsters is better than a 1st world country.

But i mean typically if someone has the power to summon you from other worlds, you probably don't have the immediate power to beat the shit out of them.

Modern isekai are really derivative. Like most isekai would hardly be different if they weren't isekai, but just fantasy.
In most cases, isekai just exists so the fish out of water can fed exposition shamelessly.

>>23301811
Just had an idea of a cow being vaporized by some alien. thank you

>>23301883
To specify, the scene of his breakdown comes a few days after he was summoned, after he had time to stew in his situation, long after his initial anger. A lot of isekai stories do have the MC getting initially upset, but usually, after that point, they take it in complete stride, never thinking something like "I'm never gonna see my home or loved ones again," which most would be really sad about no matter how good the fantasy world is.

>>23301898
>Like most isekai would hardly be different if they weren't isekai, but just fantasy.
You mean other than inventing rice, inventing crop rotation, and constant references to RPG video games they used to play?
And that's before getting into otome isekais.
ironically the trait that defines modern isekai isn't the actual isekai part, it's the absolutely mindless self-wank power fantasy.

Random idea for a story.

Zombie apocalypse where if people die by any means other than brain trauma, they become zombies.

Protagonists planned on heading to the far North to escape zombies. they find a building in the middle of sheet ice.

Figure they'll investigate.

Find zombies inside. Little elf zombies.

That's right, they found Santa's Workshop, and they didn't survive the apocalypse.

>>23301543
Anon you replied to. I have a character from Earth in my story, but he isn't the MC.
He came so long ago that you'd never see what he was, which was a writer and a Communist, someone who tried to help the world, but like any commie, failed.
Now he's an immortal Lich who doesn't care about anyone outside of his very, very few friends, which includes the MC.
He jokingly recounts the first time he tried to explain where he came from, and because the world he was sent too was quite primitive at the time, they simply killed him with a rock for being so strange.
There are glimpses into him as a person and you can see how living for so long has broken him. He's been a villain, he's been a hero, he's worn every hat that he can, and ended up apathetic because the human mind isn't meant to live for so long. He's seen and done too much to not either disconnect with others who he considers short lived or fall into complete madness at his inability to do anything but watch everyone he loves wither into dust while he remains.
I wanted someone being isekai'd into my world as a side character, who didn't want to go to a fantasy land, who is really just trying to occupy his time and stave off the boredom of living so long.

For the record, my story is not an isekai. But there are elements of it. The Fae in the story are gods from Earth who came to this world basically because they were convinced it would be better, and they believed they could go back once they were done looking around.
The man mentioned above just happened to die at the same time that the portal opened and his soul was pulled into this world rather than into the cycle of reincarnation. The effect of this is that his soul is made immortal because the god of the other place can't process it, so he comes back with his memories intact.

>>23301943
I was also thinking of drawing a short comic about zombies.
Basically a pair of girls are partners, but one is getting transferred to another city. Heart broken the other girl kills her and eats her body, and the twist is revealed that there aren't actually any zombies, it's just people overcome with love and a desire to become one with their lover.

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is he right?

>>23296789
>Perhaps he had a point. Conducas had arrived a mere two years ago. During his tenure, no enemies had been sighted. The stronghold had seen more than one assault, but that was back when Gath had been in charge. He had been known as “Ringatho the Iron,” and even the fort had echoed his name with pride. But eras begin and end; that man no longer existed. Only “Gath the Goat” stood in front of him.

Your paragraph was good but I think this flows a little better

This is a strange question to ask, but I need to think of a name for the main character. See, he doesn't actually have a name, and it's bought up in the story how weird it is that he doesn't have one.
Usually, he's referred to by "Lil' buddy" or "Lil' guy" or any number of endearing nicknames, but I wanted him to finally give himself a name around the third act of the story.
Thing is, I want it to be a really good name. One that rolls off the tongue and fits with his kindhearted, innocent, and thoughtful disposition.
I've thought up a bunch but they always feel kind of off.
>Simon
>David
>Adam
>Bradley
>Liam
Any ideas? It's not fair that women get to have pretty names like Alice or Sophie or Yvonne

>>23302296
At least make it a name that has some meaning in the story. You can't build it up for three acts and then randomly go like,
>Now I know! My name is...Bradley!
PFFFFT

>>23302296
go with Simon. it sounds the most like the description you gave.

>>23302332
>>23302354
I know. But at that point he has experienced a ton of personal growth. He starts out as a nearly blank slate with a hunger to learn about the world, and slowly learns how to socialize and interact with the world around him, as well as things like art, culture, and love
Him getting a name is a sign of him becoming a complete person.

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I have like four stories at 20-30k words at the moment and it feels like I've hit a wall. I want to see all of them written, but progress is glacial if I don't commit to just one. It drives me nuts. Where do I find some fool to handle at least one for me?

I don't care so much about being the one to type things out, I just want to have fun reading a good story. Ideally, people should write good stories without my involvement, but this somehow seems really difficult for them.

>>23296996
Have you not heard of parataxis, you pedantic faggot?

>>23295466
Looking for a mag to send a flash fiction piece I wrote. One that is more laid back but with a decent following. Any recs?

>>23302378
try and pick the one you most want to focus on, and stick to that. set the others completely aside. while you do have to maintain a consistent voice in any one piece of writing, each chapter can be set up as it's own little mini story with newly added characters and situations so you can get a taste of variety while still writing the same story. the other three will still be there when you finish the first

>>23301605
Gary Stu

new here
how long should I make the book? like how many words or pages?

>>23302494
>try and pick the one you most want to focus on, and stick to that. set the others completely aside
But that's the whole problem, I can't. I like them all.

>>23302701
A million zillion billion trillion words, or pages

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What's a good way to write a medieval era woman being suspected of sexually grooming a younger man that she is teaching, but nothing is able to be materialized out of it?

For the record she is using her hands, mouth, and breasts to pleasure him, but nothing beyond that.

Thus the accusers have nothing concrete, only rumours. I'm wondering how those rumours might begin.

>>23302725
>medieval era
They'd give the lad a medal

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Experienced writers reply only.

How do you balance writing for pleasure and writing for art / mass consumption? I'm on my fourth book and while it is in the vogue to categorize writers as "gardeners" or "architects," I think at this point I find these two terms disguises for the more true-to-reality, "masturbators" or "artists" - with no disrespect meant for the act of masturbation. Rather, I think writing can easily be distinguished as writing what is essentially a stream-of-conscious expression of what intrigues or incites you the most, and writing where one attempts to shape one's consciousness into a more artistic, presentable form. For example, it may entertain you most to include irreverent humor in a scene which would be far more well-received if it were played straight; or, alternatively, you may wish to play a scene straight which you know in reality would be better received if it were twisted into satire. These are simplistic examples for clarity; on a broader, perhaps more exaggerated scales, you could say that you wish to masturbate by writing self-indulgent sword and sorcery despite knowing it is in your ability to formulate more mature fantasy in the style of Gene Wolfe. The problem, of course, is that writing for one's own pleasure also narrows the audience; one's self-indulgent ramblings are less likely to reach another person's heart than a well-crafted, calculated tale, although this is not always the case depending on the level of one's abilities.

Successful writers: how have you tackled this problem? Have you accepted greater obscurity and lesser quality in pursuit of better enjoying and deriving pleasure from the process of writing itself, or do you aim for the stars despite yourself?

>>23302782
Masturbation is practice, what you present needs to be a good fucking. I don't find my own self indulgence something that I want to read, there must be some teasing and restraint to make it meaningful. Saying "I like writing this" doesn't mean you want to read it. Artists like doing hours of cross hatching because they're autistic, that's not a drawing. It's sounds like you're missing the point that you're creating something that you would enjoy and trying to frame what you know you enjoy, as a reader, as some outside force.

>>23301605
I just avoid the underdog narrative because very, very few of the fights in the story are one-sided

ive been querying lit agents for a while and just got a response from a reputable agent saying my novel isn't the right project for their list at the moment but they like my writing so if I have anything else im working on theyd be keen to read it
I know it's nothing really, but it's nice external validation and feels like a small win

>>23303568
that’s great, anon. a small win is still a win. most people will never even finish something to submit in the first place.

i will play rimworld all day today too

are there any ai-powered editor tools that are actually good for fiction? preferably free or at least pirateable

>>23303580
thanks anon
I know it will likely come to nothing but it's a rare bit of encouragement amongst the otherwise pretty depressing process of querying and being rejected lol

>>23300581
Don't pad

>>23303673
You can use either explore ChatGPT to find versions dedicated to editing, or you pay premium for Sudowrite or Claude.
Otherwise, what you're using isnt as much AI

>>23303568
Could you post a sample here? I'm curious to see where the bar is set for agents showing interest.

How to set up humorous situations in first person fiction? With the reader not being able to know more than the main character it is more difficult

>>23295466
>read any piece of good fiction
>have 5 ideas for own stories by the end of the first para
>can't focus on reading anymore
this has been my life for tree years now

>>23304041
what

>>23304041
Read some Jeeves and Wooster books.

>>23304041
you are the blackest retard gorilla nigger. I mean holy shit

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>>23302782
I don't see the contradiction between writing for pleasure and writing for 'art'.

What I enjoy in writing is finding the right form for an idea, seeing how it organically develops, and putting it into clear effective language, which are exactly what art (for lack of a better term) requires. Otherwise, it would be like playing sudoku and just writing in numbers at random - when there's no challenge, there's no fun.

All good work should of course have an element of fantasy and desire, but if you don't treat that little spark of fantasy carefully, and craft the perfect conditions for it to thrive in, it will just fade away as a dim daydream instead of feeling alive and substantial and real.

What's fun is seeing your story take on a life of its own, and that only happens when you respect the demands of its own internal aesthetic logic.

>>23304041
Remember that what's funny to the reader doesn't have to be funny to the narrator

>>23304190
e.g. you're prose

>>23304041
Shamelessly rip off conversations you heard other people laugh at. That does require going outside and touching grass though.

>>23302296
Rufus

>>23304197
Lucas untied the cords to my ill-fitting leather armor and began removing the pieces from my body.

“Christ.”, he grunted, ripping off my chest-guard, “I can’t imagine why you would wear something like this, it’s got to weigh at least seventy pounds.”

“I can’t imagine why you would wear your git up.”, I said, shivering as I stood in the middle of the antechamber, buck-naked. “That hat has gotta be the dumbest piece of fashion I ever done saw.”, I yammered, trying not ta think too much about the situation.

“Well, second dumbest. First dumbest hasta be this stupid piecea- ack!” I hollered ta high heavens as Sabarene clamped the right leg of the black spikey armor around my ankle.

The darn thing didn’t really hurt, but it was cold as all heck. The spikes sticking out also made me spread my legs apart some, which woulda been a whole lot less weird if I was wearing a paira shorts, orra shirt, orra tanktop, or something.

“Alright, just remain perfectly still, Miss Axeman Red Four." Sabarene instructed me. "Otherwise I might accidentally poke a hole in your labia.”

“The heck issa labia?!”, I spat.

>>23304609
This is like something an AI would output if you asked it to "write a sex scene in the style of an incel."

>>23295478
Do it, coward.

>>23304805
I don't want to be called an incel like the other guy

>>23304609
Awful. Just awful.

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>>23302354
>>23302332
>>23304585
I guess Simon is close, but I'm trying to think of a name that communicates this

>>23295466
What are your experiences with Royal Road?
Should I expect 1 view per month?
Considering this site doesn't even have a Wikipedia article, it's probably not very popular.

>>23304609
10/10 on goodreads

>>23304985
names arent a factor in conveying a character. their actions and how they respond to actions do

>>23304987
You'll get far more than one view a month.

Reference material for composition and rhetoric in fiction ?

Why do I like procrastinating so much instead of writing

>>23305044
You dont want to write. You like the idea of writing

>>23305074
I feel like this is always a cope.
Everyone hates "writing"
They like telling a story and conveying things to readers, but the actual effort of writing is a chore to accomplish the end goal.

>>23305044
I feel you bro, writing 2K word last week was really straining.

Any cover artists here? I figure I'd turn to /lit/ before using my fiverr guy

>>23297790
Very wordy. Read your stuff out loud and ask yourself this question: Do people sound like this when they talk?
If you're going to use superfluous language, then you'd better have a good reason e.g. free indirect discourse. Otherwise, cut it.
>As Joseph continues to his pursuit of where his bug may have began, a fleeting buzz emanates around him.
As Joseph pursues the source of his bug, he hears a fleeting buzz.
>blindfolded child searching for a pinata
Too wordy.
>clarity of a Buddhist
Too wordy and it doesn't make sense.
"His aimless clicking is interrupted by a fleeting moment of clarity, and he pulls up the task manager to check its performance; there's nothing unusual here."
There. The clunky words are removed, and the structure is varied up for better rhythm. I also let you keep the semicolon. Note its correct usage here.
>all the stuff about the bee
Too much expository language. Be more creative about it. Vary up the rhythm. Reflect the frantic feelings of the character in the language.
"The noise torments his senses: behind his left ear - no, his right. The color yellow strafes his vision. His mind spins at a feverish pace, but the noise proves faster. Yellow at his 1 o'clock, his 10, his 7. The noise stabs his shoulder, and his hand shoots back in reflex. The droning is replaced by throbbing pain. Bringing his hand to his face, he gets a good look at the corpse of his only allergy."

>>23305113
just use AI image generation like everyone else

>>23305262
Not the other anon, but I'd recommend against it, people have strong hatred of AI and it gives implication entire book is written by AI

>>23305280
this. i would 100% drop a book over an AI generated cover.
i'd have more respect for a stock image with a comic sans title as your cover.
>but i tricked you and this was actually AI the whole time
is not an excuse either. just spend 10 minutes in photoshop or hire some dude, it's not hard.

>>23305084
Another genre fiction retard with his failed screenplay. No respect for literature. No love for the craft. "It's just a way to tell muh story" -- the writing IS the story, cunt.

If you want an easy cover just find a public domain painting/drawing that kinda matches the mood of your story and use that in your cover

>>23305294
The book is the story you dumb retard.
It's like saying people enjoy cooking, nobody enjoys cooking they enjoy eating delicious food at the end of it.

The act of typing out words is boring as fuck. If you could instantly transpose your thoughts onto a page you would take that option 100% of the time.

>>23305280
It's only incel NEET shutins in brackish backwaters like 4chan that seethe about AI. And you don't buy anything anyway, because you don't have any money. Your opinion can be safely dismissed. Sorry to break it to you, but you are REALLY out of step with the mainstream.

>>23305294
>the writing IS the story, cunt.
Based.
>>23305084
I think it's fair to consider the effort of writing a chore, depending on what you're writing; a scene that's easy to visualize but takes much effort to actually get all the connecting glue down can be tedious, for instance. However, don't project your own hatred of writing onto everyone else. It betrays a lack of skill or appreciation for the craft. The same goes for your cooking analogy; do you really think master chefs devote decades of their lives to cooking and hate the process the entire time? No.

The key in all things is to love these ledges, to love the act of dashing across them, for it is in love that one begins to spend the necessary time to see all aspects of something and through that attain greater mastery. Your lack of love is such that you don't see you can't "transpose your thoughts into a page" since one's thoughts are not coherent full sentences, or that one hones their text in the process of penning it.

A chef who snaps food into existence is not a chef; an artist who snaps art into existence is not an art; a writer that snaps a book into existence is not a writer. This should be obvious on the face of it.

>>23305305
Writing a book without caring about prose is like shooting a film without caring about visuals or recording a song without caring about music.

If you're not going to respect the medium, don't bother. No one will respect your writing when it's something you only settled for reluctantly because you're too stupid and lazy to make a movie or a video game -- which of course with you people is always what you truly want, though not enough to actually do it. It's far easier to move your mouse three inches and open up Microsoft Word to take a putrid, steaming shit on literature. You are a failed daydreamer who lacks the talent, passion, and work ethic to do anything about it.

>>23305340
>Writing a book without caring about prose
What the fuck are you on about?
Of course you still care about the prose, I'm saying the activity of literally writing out the words is where the annoyance lies.

You already know the prose, you already have the ideas in your mind. The act of transcribing it is just time consuming and painful.

You sound retarded and there's a reason you have to resort to insults and projection.

>>23305305
speak for yourself. i enjoy writing. i also enjoy cooking

>>23305305
I understand that something that one is passionate about can be a chore but it doesn't mean you don't love the craft. I love cooking, writing and composing music. Even if sometimes I gotta force myself to do it cause I might not be "on" or in the mood. It doesn't mean I never enjoy it.

>>23305353
>The act of transcribing it is just time consuming and painful.
That's all art, basically. Unless you have one of those a-ha moments where the idea just flows out of you like with paintings or with music. But with books it's almost impossible to replicate that since it's such a long medium. The way you make it it just sounds absolutely miserable and anons are disagreeing that it ain't THAT bad. If anything, I think the REALLY tedious stuff is in the editing and revision. But writing that first draft is very fun when all's said and done

>>23305280
>>23305292
if your cover is obviously AI, with shiny pseudo anime humanoid figures and obviously generated textures, then of course people should hate it. but AI art can be used very effectively when trained to be more minimalist. and whatever the AI spits out you'll then need to throw it in GIMP or something to remove any weirdness. Think about literature and some of those covers. They're not usually super slick, but they can definitely be stylized.

>>23305305
why wouldn't you enjoy cooking?
the act of typing out words isn't boring. I'm not writing a term paper or something

>>23305353
>You already know the prose
I really don't, nice sentences take work

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>>23305084
nope. i love it. i love doing every part of the process. I wouldnt do it if I didnt

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>>23305292
>is not an excuse either. just spend 10 minutes in photoshop or hire some dude, it's not hard.
Or you can do minimalistic art, something I'm more fond of.
I know people shit on minimalism, but I have always found it nice, and honestly, what do you think out:
>portrait covers showing protagonists or something more abstract yet meaningful

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>>23305774
>do you think out:
*stands out more

Also, pic related is type of shit there is billion of

Is it just me, or is it that the criticism a story receives greatly depends on the critic's awareness and familiarity with the author?

I've been in two workshops. For the first one, I started off with a super experimental piece. It got generally negative reviews, with many folks claiming that the "quirks" of the piece were unneeded and that and that, as if they were comparing it to some "ideal" contemporary form of the short story. Only a few folks actually seemed to share advice in good faith, from the perspective of whether piece accomplished what it set out to accomplish.

In the second workshop, which took place years later, with a completely different set of people, I was working on more conventional sorts of stories, and the criticism was mostly fair and they grew to understand my tastes as a writer. For the final submission of the program, as I had a hand injury and couldn't type, I sent in the exact same story I mentioned above. No updates, literally the same exact pdf. I was expecting a similar reaction as the previous workshop, especially given I hadn't done anything to the piece. However, the feedback this time around was very constructive. Sure, some folks didn't like it much, but their feedback all seemed in good faith. A common thing I heard was "Knowing your writing... it made sense it didn't this or this or that". It was as if their familiarity with my tastes and existing work, they were way more willing to deal with this experimental work on its own terms rather than dismiss it.

Isn't that a bit wierd in a sense. Shouldn't feedback solely be based on the piece of fiction itself, on whether it achieved the goals it set out for himself, and not based on one's familiarity with the writer or whatever?

>>23305967
It's hard to judge anything in a complete vacuum. For example if an author was writing a story trying to subvert a particular genre, if the reviewer knows nothing about that genre how can they give a complete opinion? Criticism can definitely be helpful, but also detrimental. It's up to you to decide which, if any, it is. You're the author, it is your story to tell and in the way you want to.

>>23305084
>Everyone hates "writing"
i love writing. the act of constructing a nice sentence is inherently pleasurable to real writers. only fake writers - ie people who do it only because nobody will give them the budget for a movie or game - hate the process of writing. of course that's 99% of people trying to write these days, but it's nevertheless completely misguided; if it was joyless to write it will be joyless to read, you are only wasting everyone's time. if you don't like writing, you should stop.

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Hmm I think my first paragraph could be stronger. How important is it? It's not complete trash but it's not great.

>>23306393
>>23306393
>>23306393

test
>>23198555