how do you guys deal with dopamine addiction?I can’t pick up a book without constantly losing my attention to my phone, and mindlessly wasting my time with it.Feel like I can barely function as a full thinking human being anymore
What is so compelling about your phone? I can't imagine anything on my phone being interesting for more than a few minutes.
>>23297062>What is so compelling about your phone?frankly? absolutely nothingI just waste time browsing 4chan or youtube
>>23297049take you book for a walk find a nice place to read it, leave the phone at home
I used to just lock my phone away before and after work. Lately, I’m thinking about buying a watch with an alarm so I can still do that but take advantage of the alarm. But long story short jt’s an addiction and it should be treated like one.
>>23297082I used to do this but it's hard to get comfortable outside so I just go to the 24hr college library and don't take my phone.
The app stayfree works pretty well at fully blocking apps/websites, though i can't block 4chan on it for whatever reason.. in any case my screen time has dropped considerably. In my view you basically have to treat internet addiction like any other addiction, just as a recovering alcoholic can't have "just one beer," never give yourself "just a couple minutes" of scrolling through stupid shit online. Don't come here anymore, people just talk about the same 5 books anyway.
Why make it hard on yourself? Put your phone in another room. Make it as annoying as possible to look at your phone when you're supposed to be reading. You also need another hobby that will render you too busy to look at your phone. It's not some grand, melancholy, but boredom.
>>23297049Install content blockers (such as Cold Turkey) on your PC and phone. Read in a different room from your devices as well.
>>23297049My mind drifts when reading certain books. Is it the book or is it me
>>23297049read the first chapter of meditations on the tarot. it focuses on the importance of concentration without effort. it says this is the key skill in life
>>23297049Pic is lacking>That's it, tomorrow I'm gonna change for good and be productive >*nothing changes*
>>23297049Only thing I am absolutely and unequivically addicted to is coffee but fortunately nothing else. But man I cannot function without coffee.
>>23297049I remember saving a thread from /fit/ ages ago that explained how to get over this and i eventually lost it in my hard drive shitting itself and exploding but i tried it anyway, here's what i did:2 weeks ago i tried isolating myself for 7 days in my house, my room didn't have a computer or a phone or whatever, the only thing i did is eat a strict diet, reading LOTR, exercise and trying meditation to stop all the "menal noise" of not being able to stop thinking and just relaxing and concentrating in things i do right now like washing dishes without music or sounds and just enjoying the moment of cleaning. I live in a rural area so it's pretty easy for me to go to the forest and just do some exercise and read and go back to not doing anything also i took a week off from work but the /fit/ guide said you can still work but try to be as much isolated from people, family, friends etc as possible.The objective? Reset your dopamine receptors. The thread was very simplifyed and i am simpligying it a lot more only talking about my experience, so in summary, your brain tries to accomodate itself on the luxuries you gave to him, he wants to feel pleasure so it commands you to bring porn to him, he wants instant gratification and feeling full so you feed him junk food, he wants constant dopamine so you feed him scrooling and gayming and shit. If you take away all those commodities from him with an extreme situation like what i did, it's like you are pushing him from his sofa, he tries to grab from whatever he can, he tries to lure you into relapsing so you can be relaxed again, but if you persevere for only 7 days he succumbs to you and you reset your dopamine receptors, and after a week you can do actual good stuff that is healthy for you and your brain will interpret those dopamine hits of finishing work as the things you should do to get relaxation and good feelings, you have succsesfully reprogrammed your brain.So basically do that, isolate yourself for a week, don't watch internet and porn, meditate (put your mind in blank) and exercise.This is very hard for an addict, trust me, i've tried 3 times until i got a good week and finished it, but it feels so fucking good.Godspeed if you try this by yourself anon. It's not the only way but it can work for some people and if you lurk the scientific data it is empirically proven that this works for most humans.
>>23297049When you feel compelled to pick up your phone and lose focus on the book you're reading. Pause reading but by god don't reach for your phone. That's all, in a second you will gather your thought and be able to follow the book again.
>>23297075>>frankly? absolutely nothing>I just waste time browsing 4chan or youtubei'm in the same situation. I have been for years and I think there's no solution.
>>23297049I have to be outside and get sunlight and sleep without an alarm to wake me up too early
>>23297478>tl;dr just do dopamine detox
>>23297478What if you need your device to study?
>>23297478sounds cool, unfortunately I can't get 7 days off of work or without talking to my gf any time soonsomeday maybe, who knows...
>>23297049try reading along with listening to an audiobook
Use minimalist phone: launcher app to simplify your phone interface. Delete all social media from phone. Use Firefox mobile with leechblock addon to block sites. On desktop, use DF youtube to disable the recommendations and related videos (sub box + search only is a balance that has worked for me). Stop coming here. You also have to actually want to do it, and avoid getting complacent about it. This has worked for me for over a year. Unfortunately I started coming here (/lit/ only) again a few days ago in a moment of weakness and it's a huge mistake.
>>23297589Several people in this thread have described how they overcame this
>>23297103This pretty much. I've only recently started realising how bad my own addiction was. GL OP
>>23297803Why not talk about this with your gf though?
>>23297478Here you go.
>>23298031this sounds pretty ggood
I'm in the same boat, though for me it's sitting at my computer instead of looking at my phone.The most important thing is training your discipline and being aware, that once you power through wanting to put the book down during the first few lines or paragraphs you'll get immersed into the book and will forget about your phone.Second, what helped me is making my "unit of reading" time, instead of number of pages. When I sat down to read X number of pages or a chapter I caught myself speeding through it, not paying attention or treating reading like a chore sometimes that I have to get done before satisfying my dopamine addiction again. When instead I sit down to read for X number of minutes it's easier, because speeding through the pages won't make me put down the books sooner, so I actually give it the attention it needs. Obviously this requires you to hold yourself accountable.Lastly, you could always turn it into a habit. Make yourself read once a day or once every two days. Ideally, though not necessarily always at the same time (before bed, after dinner, etc.). When building a habit consistency is more important than time spent. It's better to start out with only reading for 10mins or something, but making sure you do it every single day, until the habit sticks (usually 2 weeks or something, google that shit yourself) then you can bump up the time. That's better than starting out with going for 1h but burning out and start skipping days after 5 days.That's my two cents on the issue and obviously this pattern is applicable to many other things you might want to do more often.>>23297240Could be both. Does it happen consistently? For me it usually happens when a certain part of a book is more boring than the rest or I have a lot going on in life.
People saying leave the phone at home and go read are totally right. However I have found that I have immense, irrational anxiety when I don't have my phone. Even just thinking of leaving it at home and leaving for hours filled me with a weird stress. Man I am in the deep end, noticing this is legit scary. Theres NOTHING justifying feeling like this. I clearly have an addiction
>>23297049put the phone in another room and set a timer unto which you read. start small like 25 min. +1 min each day. hard start time, unto which if missed thou dost nay read.
I feel like a lot of people underestimate the importance of physical wellbeing for stuff like this.Out of curiousity, of all the people saying they can't get off their phones, what are your:>diet>sleeping habits>exercise schedule>social engagementslike?I find I get hooked on my computer mostly when I'm being a fat sack of shit at home and eating like crap, if I eat healthily, exercise and sleep well I'm not that interested in mindless scrolling.
>>23298613the cellphone is the modern panopticon. burn it down.
>>23297049You have to read in a separate room, or else in a setting separate from where you normally engage with those things. I would say it took me about two years of reading increasingly more and more before I regained my ability to lose myself in literature like I did when I was a kid. Also, stop cooming. Very bad for every aspect of your life. Especially the intellect.
>>23298633I don't think it actually matters. I read all the time and I eat like an impoverished 10 year old and sleep with a nearly random schedule. I don't exercise in any intentional way. I have no social life.
>>23298633>>23298691It does matter. Physical health/activity contributes greatly to mental health.Obviously it's not the only factor. I do socialize with friends, have an alright diet and do a sport multiple times a week and still suffer from online addiction or whatever you want to call it. But it's definitely a lot easier to be productive (or engage in an "active" hobby like reading) when I don't wake up at 1AM or some shit.
>>23298691Fair, some of it is also just conditioning, I'm just old enough (born in 1997) where I wasn't raised on tablets and smart phones, and although I did have a laptop for most of my childhood I was often reading too, even now probably 90% of my smartphone use is just reading the news. I think if I was born even just a couple years later I'd probably be much more hopelessly addicted to online shit.>>23298799Agreed, it's very important but I wouldn't say it's everything.Just find it interesting how this entire thread is saying "lock your phone in another room" instead of focusing on other reasons why you're obsessed with your phone. Even if you remove the phone you've still got the mindset of needing inoffensive, mindnumbing content to pass the time, and I think that can be due to an unhealthy mental/ hormonal balance.Also I'm getting the feeling 4chan is almost entirely phoneposters now based on this thread.
>>23298799Yeah, still not buying it.
>>23298847boomers are on their phones 24/7
>>23298847Good point, I didn't even pay attention to that.Or rather, I assumed that everyone who suggests it understand that putting the phone in the other room is just to kickstart the process of not having to rely on it for feel good chemicals all the time, not a permanent solution.Also as a fellow '97er whose phone is pretty much just an mp3 player with a messenger and google maps function, I occasionally still fall into exactly those behaviors. Just that I waste time at my desktop computer instead of my phone. Which I suppose is a step up, since at least its stationary>>23298868What do you mean?
>>23297049I... like to read. It isn't an issue. Have you considered, perhaps, maybe you are a dilettante fraud?
>>23297049Why don't you put it somewhere far and hard to retrieve
>>23298871>Or rather, I assumed that everyone who suggests it understand that putting the phone in the other room is just to kickstart the process of not having to rely on it for feel good chemicals all the time, not a permanent solution.Fair, maybe you could argue by putting the phone away you force more productive activities that eventually lead to you not wanting to use your phone.>Also as a fellow '97er whose phone is pretty much just an mp3 player with a messenger and google maps function, I occasionally still fall into exactly those behaviors. Just that I waste time at my desktop computer instead of my phone. Which I suppose is a step up, since at least its stationaryYeah this is exactly me, forgot I also use my phone for google maps and spotify as well, also sports apps and as a bank card but that's it. I definitely waste away in front of my laptop and have spent way too much of my life on this shithole site, although at least have never used Twitter or Reddit.But like you say, it's good because I can only use my computer at home rather than a phone where you take mindless internet crap with you everywhere.It's also possible to abuse books for a meaningless time sink like scrolling, like for example I'm rereading Harry Potter just because I'm struggling to find a new book, which is an utter waste of time.
>>23297049I don’t
>>23297090It’s how I read my books. How is that an addiction?
>>23297049Atomic HabitsDigital Minimalism
>>23297049Scrooling is actually caused by work addiction. It’s a way to dull the guilt of not being productive. To eliminate this vice one must first abandon the desire to be productive and learn to be
>>23297049The first step is to give up cooming. Like not even from sex
>>23297803If your gf is detrimental to your purpose then ditch her.
>>23297049Turn off your phone? I dont have a source but there was a study that analyzed three groups of students through a year. One group studied close to their phones. Another group studied with their phones in their backpacks. The third group studied with their phones in another room. Do I need to tell the results?
but anon..... I read....on my phone
>>23298633You know... I think I feel pretty lonely.
If you really wanna stop being so distracted on your phone I'll give my advice:Give yourself a goal. Be it reading a certain amount of pages, a certain time frame, etc. Pomodoro technique helps because its like eating a big meal in bite sized chunks. Giving yourself a goal, at least from my experience, is what often times throw me into deep concentration or dedication to whatever task I had at hand. Even waking up early, if I have a goal the next morning, a task that I need to do - I get up on time and get it done. I noticed that every time I have nothing to do the next day, I wake up late and suffer a sense of grogginess.
>>23298518Both for studying and reading the minute metric is super good. Cosigning this anon.
>>23298870Just like your mother is on my dick 24/7
>>23299358I look like this and say this
>>23297075I think loneliness is the core of the problem. It's the addiction to feeling connected to other people.
>>23299013Do I really have to read self help books? Do they actually work? Isn’t it almost the same as watching productivity vids on yt nonstop, never changing anything afterwards?
>>23299561>thread full of advice>latches on to the most useless suggestion availableDestined for failure.
>>23297478>>23298031sounds like someone internalized a bunch of self-help grift>humans aren't rats, they don't even approximate>Skinnerian conditioning does not work outside ABA
>>23299478The only drawback is that my autistic brain uses it as an excuse to postpone>it's 11:53 anon, you can't start at such an odd time, let's wait until 12:00 to better keep track of how long you studied>whoops, we missed it ant it's 12:03 now...well I suppose we could wait for 12:15
I went a week without internet and just felt lonely and couldn't read
>>23297478Interesting. I am going to try this. I have lost interest in gaming naturally, just doesn't feel compelling anymore, but sometimes I find myself endlessly scrolling on kiketube and cooming, habits which I would like to put a end to.
>>23297049Imagine getting 'addicted' to a natural brain chemical lol. Next you'll be telling us you're 'addicted' to oxygen.
>>23297049Memes like these are just demotivational posters for zoomers
>>23299524interesting thought
>>23299056damm is that true
>>23298877It's as simple as that. People want to be readers because it signals something about their intellect or social status or they just feel better about themselves because they're doing something "productive", but you can't trick your brain into doing something with no reward. You intuitively feel that there is nothing worthwhile in reading so you don't feel motivated to do it, you just think it would make your life better because people value it more than scrolling.The trick to reading is for the contents to actually be interesting to you, more interesting than funny memes and videos. That might seem like a high bar, but that's the only way. Maybe have some intellectual humility and read something like a graphic novel or a joke book and it will keep your attention better than whatever /lit/core pseud shit you picked up.
>>23297049I have naturally gravitated to reading or hearing classics in later life (my 30s).
>>23298623can 2nd this, putting the phone in another room has helped me. After like 5 minutes you forget about it and will find yourself more invested in whatever you're doing, be it reading, writing, drawing, whatever.
>>23298633get /ck/get /out/get /fit/then get /lit/
I don't want to detox or rehab. I need moar fun!
>>23298633This is true depending on the person. I was at my peak a week ago, because I was doing cardio almost daily, lifting, grinding schoolwork, and writing. I had no time to play vidya or fuck around and scroll. But the second I finished schoolwork and partied during the weekend I fell off hard. I think it has ties into manifestation and mental feeling. If you feel like your not doing shit, you will not be doing shit. If you can get the momentum to be your "ideal" self then just always think like that version.>I can eat this whole pizza, or have something healthier, since I am a healthy person I won't have the pizzaSame applies to reading>I am a person who enjoys reading, so I am not going to stare at my phone for 30 minutes when I could be readingIt's easier said then done for sure. I struggle with it. But I had it work for me for a brief period of time.
>>23297049Thinking of this shit in "chemical" terms has ruined you guys. Suddenly it's not just a time-wasting habit you would rather not be doing, it's an "addiction."
>>23300310How would you frame the problem in order to handle it better?
>>23300412touch grass, have sex, stop being a nazi, etc
>>23300436Replace one meme with another, or several it seems. Thank you for your contribution!
>>23300412Literally just think about the actions themselves. Do you even enjoy scrolling on your phone? Do you get anything from it? What would you rather be doing? Taking away the "I like it because good brain chemical" framing makes you see it for what it really is, and it makes it seem less inevitable >>23300436Oh fuck off
If you have an office, keep all your electronics in there. Treat your phone like a landline and always keep it in the same spot. I strictly browse 4chan on company time
>>23297049I'm sorry anon, you just to it. If you can't focus because of your phone, put it out of your sight. Also making reading goals help.
What is the difference between reading a book and reading random shit on the internet?
>>23300458>>23300716Poor you
This is going to sound gay I but come to 4chan for a weird mixture of doom scrolling/validation and social interaction.I just want it to end
>>23297049I believe my brain is permanently deformed from all the time I have spent gooning to pron
Did anyone read the Sam Kriss article about giving up his phone for Lent? Extremely disappointing. There was a brief allusion to demonic hordes (perhaps by way of pandering to his audience), but the main conclusion was just 'phones distract you from the anxiety of being alive', which is a truism you could get from countless wretched millenial stand-ups. Is Kriss losing his touch?
>>23299736Before scoffing at OP, you should try reading scientific literature, brainlet.
>>23300310Doesn't make much of a difference. Habit, addiction—who cares? Instead of criticizing his word choice, say something useful.
>>23301012Fool that you are!
>>23297049even the high born go through stages where all the fruit is retarded. catch you in the the next reincarnation. may you avoid the lethe.
>>23300110the act of becoming through ones own design...
>>23301018I am not criticizing his "word choice." This is a mindset thing. An addiction is something you "need," something you do compulsively. You may hate it but you can't stop. People are not "addicted" to dopamine. Frankly they are bored and anxious and are choosing an easy way to spend their time. If you tell me to "read some studies" you can go fall down a well
I had a productive day, only came to the internets during lunch and during one shirt break, am now shit poasting before sleeping. Hope it all goes well frens.
>>23301274>shirt break
>>23297049I tell my gimp to whip my bare ass every time I start to lose attention.
>>23297321
>>23297049Not /lit/ >>>/adv/ >>>/r9l/ >>>/kys/
This is a pretty good and chill thread. I like you guys, hope you can work your way to a healthier life.I have a problem with content addiction as well but it's not the central problem per se. Doing detox for me doesn't work because it will just relapse before long. I would know, I have had many sort of detox (Youtube, Discord, Facebook, Twitter, 4chan; soft blocking, hard blocking, deprivation). For me I found doing the detox stuff is easy, if anything, it's so easy because I subconsciously look for a reason to quit.But I can't actually quit. All of my friends who are tied to my "intellectual" life are online. The friends who aren't cringe and super normies who can talk books, engage in in-depth discussion about stuff, who share the same interests as I do and have had enough experience about the same discussions, the same emotional experience that I don't have to reiterate everything all over again and again, and explain every single thing that I feel or do, justify myself to... They are all here, online. My aspirations are online too. Making games? Writing books? I can't do that irl in my country. Those projects are only meaningful here among these digital communities. So in the end, whatever I do eventually I still come back here for a real and good reason, and I will relapse into scrolling in about a few days because working is hard when you are figuring creative stuff on your own, and I'm not good at disciplining myself like a 20th century factory worker either. I have gone through this cycles enough to know my brain is starting to get used to it and... give up. I haven't, but I observe and I remember how my thinking, rhetoric and affective responses are changing to make me feel much more comfortable about all this. I can't fight it back either because those changes are necessary to prevent a mental cascade and breakdown.If you ask me the most central problem to addiction like this is just have a strong life project. That's not a goal you can set for yourself, if you can complete that goal that's great. Absolutely. But if not it's still fine because it's whatever really. What are you going to do once you are successful but making kids or commit yourself to some sort of grind to forget about the barren wasteland of reality? If you are lucky you would be in a cult, or rarer, still genuinely believe in something. Enough to make you destroy your own life to and reshape it to that idea.The idea is generally the project of a society at a time. A community or family can supply that kind of project as well but this isn't the 20th century, civil society is over, the family is also over. We have escaped being overdetermined by those and now they are merely options to weigh, which practically mean they can't command us to live. So what it is just us existing in the interregnum of history, and meanwhile we invent our own reason to be here. Fickle reasons that disappear as quick as they appear.
>>23301961I don't want to end this on a note that sounds like everyone should give up in general and give up on bettering your life habits in particular, so here is a bit of cringe self-help. This is mainly for the guys who are like me who find themselves completely trapped, whether by circumstances or by their own selves.A good quality of politics is preservation and endurance. Politics used to be played out on a much longer time scale than it is now. Don't rush living and feeling like you have to overcome this, find creativity and enjoyment in the way you suffer and preserve and grow the best qualities of yourself - if the virtue is good then it should still remain beautiful even through this drought, even if this stale time transform it into a twisted flower. Preserve and anticipate for when your time comes, no matter how long it is. I can't tell you how to live but, live anyway. This is neither trite nor easy despite sounding cliche, not at all. If you can "live anyway" as a project, you have nothing to feel anxiety about since you are successful by default. What you should be thinking about is building on that success and expand, or just keep at it as it is while being vigilant. Sound simple enough, but just living is too degrading for most people to do so they just don't do it.If you feel like you are a garbage person because you can't be into discipline then this is it, right? You have beaten yourself up enough, now it's time to think about what's like to live like garbage and this meager goal is very suitable for you. A noble goal for a humble root.
>>23297049You all picked up this dopamine addiction concept from a South Park episode 10 years ago.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freemium_Isn%27t_FreeIt was bad science then as it is now.
>>23301997fuck you i trust scientists. with all this knowledge we now know how to live optimally and you're stupid or a conservative (same thing actually) if you disregard our modern learnings
>>23301968>>23301961thanks for the long post friendyou're not alone, honestlyI often come here to find the solace that I can't find in my friends, who don't read at allenjoying literature is a very lonesome hobby, and sharing discussion with people here makes it comfier for some reasonit's not necessary, but it is niceI just want to engage in this habit with less compulsion and more focus on the rest of my life
>>23298031That OP is on the right track but is ultimately a pseud. No, don't get rid of the HEALTHY things that make you happy like how you decorate your room, hanging out with your friends/family, listening to music you enjoy, etc. And mandating zero internet is impossible these days: it's more accurate to mandate zero UNPRODUCTIVE internet usage. Also, this is retarded:>avoid idleness, walking around doing nothing, daydreaming, avoid having imaginary conversations, avoid thinking aobut the past or people you know. Don't lose yourself in thought, maladaptive daydreaming show that those things can become the 'bad, abundat source' on their ownHere, OP misunderstands what maladaptive daydreaming is, it's "extensive fantasy activity that replaces human interaction and/or interferes with academic, interpersonal, or vocational functioning" - losing yourself in thought doesn't fit that criteria. Anybody who is even slightly creative would recognize that mandating no daydreaming is counterproductive. Finally, any anon that is successful from actually detoxxing and overcoming internet addiciton isn't going to be posting on 4chan, sorry to say.
Have sex
>>23297049turn off all notifications and make your smart phone black and white and delete social media
>>23297799if you have a laptop, go to the library. sit somewhere in the open so you feel embarrassed to start scrolling 4chan or social media.
Too weak to get your brain under control? Stop being a bitch and make your brain work for your soul. Wipe your phone data and throw it in a lake, get a flip phone and move on w your life.
>>23297049I'll keep it real with you chief. There's no simple trick to it. Any addiction is hard to kick, the only thing on your/our/everyones side here is that the screen is a behavioral rather than a chemical addiction.Meditation helps a lot, personally. While I'd advocate for it anyways, the main reason in this context is: to break addiction you need to break the routine, the autopilot your nervous system is running. Meditation cultivates the kind of mindfulness that will be helpful when your inner fiend starts trying to Scrooool. You know that feeling, like your consciousness is in the backseat watching you burn an hour on YouTube. Mindfulness is what you need to grab the wheel again.Internet blockers are good. They put a roadblock and open the door for you to regain control of the inner feen. But regaining control over your mind necessitates becoming very familiar with what it feels like to actually be in control.
>>23302850too many homeless
I think the "addiction" framing can make things more difficult. Not to say it isn't true, but perhaps it isn't useful. It evokes a kind of helplessness.Our brains get good at the things we do often. We adapt and become more efficient. And we like doing the things we are good at, in general. When we use social media, and scroll a lot, we get good at using social media. You are probably very quick at clicking around the user interface. Your eyes are probably quite good at skimming and finding only the things you really care about on the page. this is why some of those habit routine things work. you kind of make a game out of limiting your usage of "addictive" things. this game of controlling yourself is something you can get good at, and we like doing things we are good at. so if you can get into that groove and follow it those things do work. if you think about it, we often fall into the kinds of addictions that are harmful, because we are failing at something else. trouble in school or work, social problems, what ever the case is. When we suck at something we move to something we can be good at, and its very easy to "get good" at social media. intellectually we can see how stupid it is to value being good at these things, but all of this is happening on lower levels of the brain which are not directly accessible in our consciousness.you can even think of a completely degenerate crackhead. they get really good at being a crackhead, the whole lifestyle is a kind of game to them. if you listen to crackheads talk they typically brag about how good they are at hustling and not getting caught, etc. they will happily go on and on about all the little tricks they use to live their lifestyle. they are good at it. of course the drugs are huge drivers of the addiction here, but the lifestyle and the cleverness they can find in hustling reinforces it further and further. all that said. it would probably help to be honest to yourself about the things that cause you stress, the things you are bad at. work, school, whatever. this includes the social dimension, maybe you are good at the work itself, but fail to get recognition, so you are bad at the social side of things. some part of you recognizes this and feels bad for being bad at it, whether you want to admit that to yourself or not.then you should probably identify the substitute things that you use to be good at as a coping mechanism. not all of them should just be thrown away, but it's probably worth it to recognize them.from there you can start to make decisions, and sort things out.
