Reminder, if you don't pronojnce Latin as on the right you don't pronounce correctly:
Illa = iya
Anno = año
Cicero = θiθero

>>23526003
We are going to do things to you that have never been done before.

>>23526010
fuck u gon do gringo?

Did Cicero wirte in vulgar Latin or in Classical Latin?

It seems necessary to remind you, latinbros :
"I want to inform those, part of the latin read-a-long, that we are to read, this week, the biographies of both Arstides and Pausanias.
We have read two biographies so far: Miltiades's and themistocles's.
Catching up is still quite doable, if you haven't started yet, and Happy reading !

Feel free to ask for help about some passage you found hard or share your thoughts on the lives of the illustrious men that came down to us through Nepos."

Note to janitor/mods: this is the official general as it has been going for months as one can check in the archives, if you have to, delete the other one made by the local troll.This is the sole legitimate /clg/ thread. Future postings are to be counted as spam, since this one came first and upholds /clg/'s Rule 1. In case of spam, please delete other /clg/ threads posted while this one is still active.

ὁ κακουργοπίθηκος οὔτ' Ἑλληνιστὶ οὔτε Ῥωμαϊστὶ δύναται διαλέγεσθαι καὶ εἰ σεαυτὸν προσποιούμενος ὡς φύλακα τῶν παλαιῶν γλοττῶν

Reminder:
First rule of /clg/:
This is a space dedicated to the discussion and learning of the languages studied for a Classical Philology degree in the US, UK, and its Commonwealth. Kindly keep comments on-topic and about Greek and Latin only. If you would like to discuss other languages with significant to literary traditions, you are free to do so in your own thread

>>23526003
I'll bet your one of those thoy europeo por etho hablo athi :D fasciculumes
Shut the fuck up you not fancy you just talk wrong

>>23526035
I'm a Jewish transwoman btw if it matters

for wheelock's should i be going through the chapters trying to get some understanding on grammar and then when im done go back from the start reviewing things i still find hard or should i be trying to get perfect understanding before i go to the next chapter?

>>23526003
>>23526010
>>23526017
>>23526024
>>23526034
>>23526035
>>23526045
>>23526047
>>23526056
All me btw

>>23526067
You should give up. Wheelocks isn't research supported

>>23526067
You'll get used to the grammar the more you read, it's good to read up on the rules but don't try to memorise them

>>23526067
Luke Ranieri (pbuh) already debunked Wheelocks. Sell it and spend your money on his courses instead.

>>23526067
use llpsi instead, suplimenting with a grammar book when you havn't an idea about something

>>23526100
Both LLPSI and Wheelocks is not research based

>>23526103
its anecdote based by me though

>>23526100
im doing both

>>23526104
Too bad you're retarted tho

>>23526106
Two wrongs don't make a right

Hurt yourself

>>23526106
that's the way to go, just make sure you are consistant and it shall come to you

>just keep a diary bro
>EPHEMERIS technique
wow so I can just write anything even if the grammar is shit and it follows no established convention? bravo bald man. 90% of this nigger's videos are utterly useless
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJwhZWpMkgE

>>23526138
So Luke is some richfag with a private mansion? I'm not impressed by him anymore. He probably had a private tutor who was fluent in Latin. FAG.

>>23526215
Imagine being mad at someone because his parents did well and left him property. I just know you use an anime pfp.

>>23526224
I'm not mad I'm just not impressed anymore. I've seen Brazilian favela macacos speaking fluent Latin: they impress me. Burger richfag speaking fluent Latin does not.

>>23526138
>wow so I can just write anything even if the grammar is shit and it follows no established convention?
if you dont know better, then why the fuck not?
the aim is to use your target language as much as possible

>>23526358
Have fun ingraining awful Latin habits. Use a composition book and model yourself on SOMETHING, even the Vulgate or Lingua Latina if not Caesar or Cicero. Don't just pull it out of your ass.

>>23526138
>>23526215
>>23526302
>>23526358
>>23526366
>wow so I can just write anything even if the grammar is shit and it follows no established convention?

Ultimately this is what La Méthode Naturelle™ people don't understand. The natural method works infinitely better than direct grammar input - when it is combined with correction and instant feedback. The best way to learn Cantonese is to be dropped in Hong Kong for 3 months and not be able to use English, but this is combined with natives who will correct you either directly or subtly by rephrasing what you said in a more idiomatic way or repeating the same word you said with the right pronunciation. You learn quickly because you get feedback quickly.

Reading a text in your target language and inferring the grammar without an English companion text, teacher, tutor, or native speaker is a good way to assume that you know what you just read without actually knowing if your assumptions are correct. Likewise, engaging in daily conversation or composition without an answer key or a fluent speaker to review your compositions and correct them is also a good way to build horrible habits.

Who would've thunk that the Natural Method™ works, but only when it's done naturally!

>>23526382
>La Méthode Naturelle™
What you end up with is people from third word shitholes typing in Ebonics and using "would of"

>In principio creavit Deus caelum et terram
>"Got made heaven and earth into the beginning. Seems good enough, time to move on. I love La Méthode Naturelle™ and inpooting!"

I was under the impression that natural method texts were more for building up the kernel of thinking for said language, and upon completion going through some sort of grammar or composition book to polish and grow the kernel

>>23526465
That's not how it is marketed to clueless beginners. It's become this puritanical pedagogical orthodox position with no wiggle room for anything that isn't written in your TL.

I wish there were a natural method textbook for Old Norse
Even if I'm 'reading' texts now, it'd still be useful to have a lot of comprehensible input to read so that I'd be much more comfortable with the basics
I have no idea how you'd organise it

>>23526510
Make one once you git gud

>>23526518
Too bad that'll be never

How do you pronounce fasciculum

>>23526600
I say it like faciculún

>>23526034
>the latin read-a-long
So far has amounted to
>did anyone read it yet
50 posts later
>yeah I did
Nice 'read-a-long' (sic)

>>23526600
Loud farting noises

>>23526067
If you can understand all the exercise sentences from each chapter and read the longer passages you are good. "Perfect" understanding will take a long time. Review older chapters once in a while.
Ignore the haters, this general has an absurd bias against Wheelock despite most of being unable to read Latin

>>23526607
More like read a short
More like blogging desu. Honestly take it to /soc/

>>23526615
Judging by this general, no Latin method has never worked or ever will

>>23526138
Rephrasing from another anon's post in the old thread:
Ranieri has half a dozen methods for learning ancient languages yet he isn't fluent in Greek. What does that say to you?

>>23526622
That this is an impossible task and you fasciculumes are honestly wasting your lives

>>23526358
ye mang das da way juss rite n rite n rite whoo care bout dat grammer n az long yu rite TL yu improov da betta way

>>23526518
Yeah that'd be the dream
The biggest problem would creating a text which wouldn't necessitate dictionary searches and also drip-feeding the types of inflections in an effective order
>>23526594
That is rude

>>23526636
If I thought you deserved my politeness you'd get it
I say this honestly. You are stupid and talentless and I hate hearing you complain. Fuck off

>>23526358
this is the fun way and also how most people here did it. the most important part is keeping your interest so that you are consistent and you retain vocabulary easier. it also really isnt that painful to just briefly go over a grammar textbook as a supplement to LLPSI. also, its underrated to just jump into reading a text like de bello gallico or ab urbe condita which dont rely on exact understanding of meaning or style to appreciate, instead of reading bullshit like winnie ille poo. you learn latin to read real texts right? so the sooner you do that the sooner you know if you actually enjoy this and then you can decide how much time you want to put into it.

>>23526510
old norse doesnt have a lot of extant texts and a correspondingly large amount of hapax legomena and so on, from what i understand (nothing). I wouldn't be surprised if there is no one on earth who has acquired an extremely fluent level of Old Norse for this reason. so a well written natural method graded reader would be extremely difficult thing to write, even for experts. consider the fact that LLPSI is one of the only truly good ones, and it took orberg decades to polish.

>>23526644
Nobody here has "did it"

Serious question for Greek enthusiasts!

Is there a singular clean table of Greek verbs? I'm looking at Mastronarde and Reading Greek (Decker) and there are some half bake tables, but I don't see complete tables like what we see in Wheelocks for Latin or in any other textbook. Are Greek verbs just that messy or is there a reason for this? I find myself flipping around trying to compare different perfectives and the infinitive with other tenses but then I am rudely interrupted by these interludes about reduplication, anarthetic (?) nouns, and other such nonsense.

tldr is there a clean way to look over Greek verb tenses? (indicative + infinitive mainly)

>>23526671
No. You will never learn Greek.

>>23526670
You mean "done it" right? How are you going to master a classical language if you can't even get your past participles right?

>>23526656
Well we actually do have a lot of Old Norse texts and unlike Latin, most of it is written in a deliberately uncomplicated way, it's just the basic language and idiom that's the problem
That's why I think an Old Norse LLPSI would be perfect
By the end of the book you'd be reading actual Old Norse literature, only with a more simplified vocabulary

>>23526730
Shut up and fuck you

>>23526744
based tard

How do you guys keep time for daily studies? I try and study at least 4-5 days a week but I often find the time that I'm best able to learn (midday) taken up by other things, and by nighttime I'm too tired to read much.

>>23526928
Wagie

>>23526928
I'm a student

>>23527015
Lol fell for the scam

>>23527016
>scam
Life as a student is pretty enjoyable though?

>>23527050
frfr?

>>23527057
nta but yeah it's nice. I just spend my time learning and hanging out. If I could be paid to stay in school at least part time my whole life I'd do it in a heartbeat.

>>23526928
I generally get about 1-2 hours a day and I aim for 2 hours
When I'm still at the stage of having to rely on a textbook I find it difficult to get to an hour each day, sometimes even 30 minutes is impossible

>>23526003
Unironically if you don't pronounce the Spanish retracted S in Latin, you do pronounce it incorrectly. The question of spirantization of B, D, and G is open but you rather should do it as well.

>>23526600
FAHSH-KEE-KOO-LOO

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>tfw you read a sentence from left to right without having to think

>>23526928
Read on the bus to university or on my days off I just spend an hour with Caesar.

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>>23527234
>tfw you read an entire chapter in FR and have no clue what happened

>>23527237
>twf you read FR two times and finished the first chapter of RA but got a meltdown about pronunciation

>>23526671
wiktionary
for example
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CE%BB%CF%8D%CF%89#Ancient_Greek

>>23527234
>read a whole paragraph without thinking
>first sentence of next paragraph may as well be gibberish
so it goes...

>>23526622
Ranieri is obsessed with becoming famous in the world of classics

Finished another Old Norse chapter
At some point early in Iceland's history, some kids decided to burn someone to death in their home
A lawsuit was raised against those kids but in those days the lawsuit had to be carried out at the nearest assembly to where the offence occurred
Well the two parties go to the assembly but instead of following the law they decide to start fighting and some people die
Next they go to another assembly and they again start to kill each other with all the kids involved in the burning getting killed
Because of that someone decided that maybe it was unwise to force people to go to an assembly they weren't familiar with and so the Island was divided into 4 quarters, with 3 thing places in each of them
Except one quarter had 4 assemblies because people in two regions refused to travel to where the thing should have taken place and refused to compromise

>>23526928
I study all day long at work (even though I'm a wagie) and when I come home. Just do it. Make it happen somehow.

Blabla method

Just study your grammar and read. I swear to god people are over complicating things,people are obsessed with min max and never learn what they want to learn.

>Agricola et vitam et fortunam nautae saepe laudat

why is there an et before vitam?

>>23527830
Et... et = both... and
>The farmer often praises both life and fate of the sailor.
Depending on context, it can also meaning "either... or", so keep that in mind

>>23527909
>meaning
*mean

>>23527909
ah thanks

>The Error of Erasmus and Un-Greek Pronunciations of Greek, Chrys Caragounis 1995
Lmao was this paper ever refuted? Wtf Erasmian sisters, was Allen (pbuh) a lying faggot?
>inb4: le bald man
Illiterate amerimutt, not a source.

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>ἕτοιμος

>>23527958
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vOzcLdZhF8
The voice line are pretty memorable, although not entirely accurate to Koine Greek. Maybe the remake will address that.

There's plenty of strife in this thread over whether the Greek or Latin language is the greater: fortunately the Greeks and Romans both agreed it was Greek.

Greek translation challenge
>ἔγχει καὶ πάλιν εἰπέ πάλιν πάλιν Ἡλιοδώρας
>εἰπέ σὺν ἀκρήτῳ τὸ γλυκὺ μίσγ᾽ ὄνομα
>καί μοι τὸν βρεχθέντα μύροις καὶ χθιζὸν ἐόντα
>μναμόσυνον κείνας ἀμφιτίθει στέφανον
>δακρύει φιλέραστον ἰδοὺ ῥόδον οὕνεκα κείναν
>ἄλλοθι κοὐ κόλποις ἁμετέροις ἐσορᾷ

>>23528368
don't worry, people who know either have mostly left this general, it's skub vs antiskub slop

>>23528440
>>23528368
Fuck off Hellene. God speaks Latin

>>23528368
>>23528480
>Reddit is a word in Latin
>Not a word in Greek
>Ergo Latin is worse
QED

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Mastronarde Unit 5, exercises IV. with οἶκος being masculine is this a mistake in the answer key, or am I missing something?

>>23528502
think it's a misprint

>>23528493
Can't hear satanic words

>>23528502
Give up and learn Latin

>>23527237
This shouldn’t happen if you make sure you understand each chapter before moving on. You’re likely not spending enough time on each chapter

>>23528493
This is the argument that convinced me

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Thoughts on the Tyndale House Reader's NT Bible in Greek?

It seems like a good way to get some easy reading practice in.

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How long would it take to learn enough Latin to be able to read Milton's Latin works like the one in the picture?

>>23526671
also the wiktionary page called appendix: ancient greek grammar tables
this is what i used

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>>23529153
Cant seem to delete the post on my phone

>>23529153
I have been learning for 2 years but it seems more difficult than the Aeneid. I imagine the major barrier would be getting used to renaissance Latin. There are also a lot of allusions in this page that I don't know. theres maybe 8 words here i don't recognize.

>>23529318
You will never learn Latin

Tu non vas numquam aprendere el latine. Da sursum

Vade al infernus o fasciculumes

The troll seems to be doing progress.

Tu debes omnia mori fasciculumes

>>23529601
Foedere tu mater

>>23528862
It’s pretty good, I’ve had one for some time now. Put in effort to memorize the rarer words as well and don’t let it become something you rely too heavily on. Reading along with audio suits it well.

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Any good books for learning classical japanese (the one used in Genji, Heike, Tsureguregusa, etc)?

>>23529753
Yes. You can read the classic Fuk Off Dum Weeb-San by Tikitakaramunjo Yaoi-San.

>>23529753
Oh god, not more chinks

>>23529753
This is a Latin thread. Fuck off.

>>23529753
I suggest Cook Dog Good Good. Only then can you serve samurai

>>23529753
Vade fodere tu mater fasciculum et mori dextraa
nunc

>>23529753
>>>/a/
>>>/jp/

>>23529753
No one wants this weeb here. Respondeme in latine.

>>23525982
where do i go if i want to learn sanskrit

>>23529753
No

>>23529783
/elg/ or /jp/
/elg/ hasn't been active for awhile though. I guess discussion just naturally died down.

>>23529777
Trips checked

>>23529783
This is a Latin thread. You could try asking >>>/int/

>>23529795
>Latin
what if i want to learn ancient greek

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>>23529766
>>23529770
>>23529771
>>23529775
>>23529776
>>23529777
>>23529782
>>23529784
Jesus Christ, the absolute state of /lit/... This is disheartening, you don't belong here, go back to /v/ or another low IQ board.

>>23529799
>anime avatar

>>23529799
Regressa a /jp/ fasciculum stultus

>>23529799
Nice dubs but you're still una fasciculum

>>23529783
there's some stuff in the FAQ, made before this thread went to hell

>>23529799
Quod dixi? Respondeme in latine weeb-san

>>23529795
>>23529798
>>23529799
there's no good reason this thread should be limited to 1 classical language (latin)
curriculum in past for educated men included ancient greek, hebrew, sanskrit, classical chinese/japanese, old persian etc.

>>23529822
Nice dubs but you're still a fasciculum

>>23529822
>t. delusional
In old times people died at like 14

>>23529822
Before godless international banking coomers ruined everything it was all Latin all day pnly

>>23529822
Classics is Latin and maybe Greek. Go back to harry potter general

>>23529822
Go back to /elg/
Oh wait it died because you can't have a thread without parasiting off us LOL

>>23529822
this thread has included all those languages for years, it has just recently been ruined by mods not giving a shit

>>23529822
The thread will go back to normal once summer vacations are over.

>>23529822
Dixi "respondeme in latine."
Tu podes? Si non podes, dicanos. Est bonus. Tu podes retornarte a /jp/

>>23529822
LOL that was like two delusional Germans who died of vagina disease

>>23529848
This thread won't survive another month of this let alone three

>>23529799
You're a low IQ board.
Nice dubs tho

LLPSistsers... Wheelock raped me again...

>>23529822
It's not limited to one ancient language, ignore the troll and post about whatever ancient language you want, the troll literally can't do shit but shitpost.

I want to push you down and rub dirt in your eyes

>>23529870
>t. un alius fasciculum quod non pode loquor latine

easy
i want to rape you until you start to bleed

intermediate
i want to throw you into a woodchipper and use your guts to read the haruspices

difficult
i want to follow you home, steal your labrador, saw it in half, and throw the two halves on the ice at your son's hockey game

>>23529905
Ego quero occidere tu

>>23529910
no you are supposed to translate it into latin

>>23529916
Sed ego verdaderamente quero occiddere tu, fasciculum

>>23529905
>woodchipper
>labrador
>hockey game
Romans don't know wtf any of these are. Anyway.

>Easy
te pedicabo dum sanguis ex ano effluit

>>23529922
sorry i don't speak whatever language that is

>>23529926
Vade foedere tu ipsum et mori

>>23529753
Fuck off

>>23529753
Minichaka Raka-San Goes to Pearl Harbor
Great Crassic

>>23529843
This thread has had discussion of a variety of ancient languages, including Hebrew and Chinese since before you came to this board. You're just a moron and a tourist.
>t. Ethiopianon

>>23530003
And you're a fasciculum

>>23530003
Thanks for ruining potential quads asshole

>>23530003
>wahhh wahhh the chinks and kikes left
Good.

>>23529799
Go back to Migitaka Rik Kok

>>23529753
>>23529799
I sadly don't know anything about classical japanese but don't let the troll discourage you, he's annoying and has spent seemingly every waking minute trying to shit up these threads for the past few weeks. Stick around and maybe someone will have an answer, or check out the Eastern Classical Languages General that pops up from time to time.

>>23530139
Please just make another /elg/. Nobody needs to deal with this retard.

>>23530155
the teen amerimutt is the one who has been making the /elg/ pseudo-threads in the first place, and shits them up anyway

I can't stop thinking about Old French

>>23530181
Va te foda sil tu plait

>>23530181
I hate how french people think they're better than everybody

>>23530189
>foda
What does this mean?
>>23530192
I don't care about that
I studied French without the intention of interacting with French people

>>23530203
>What does this mean?
fuck.

>>23530210
Lmao I'm trying to research the word and I find this example sentence
>Plus l'homme cultive les arts, moins il bande
One problem with Old French is that it doesn't seem to be well documented in dictionaries

>>23530221
Fuck you
You can either kill yourself or I can kill you

Who would want to ruin /clg/? I struggle to understand this. There's so much garbage on this board already, but /clg/?

>>23530243
Don't question internet schizos. Madness that way lies.

>>23530203
You are not more better than me fasciculum

>>23530243
Bored zoomer brainlet constantly seething over the idea that anyone mught know more than him. E.g., >>23530263. The retard posts google translated Latin throughout the thread, if you ever see anyone spamming "fasciculum" who plainly doesn't realize an etymological relationship to "faggot" doesn't make fasciculum mean anything other than bundle, it's him.

>>23530287
Tu est el fasciculum magis magna del mundus omnia

>>23530287
>the troll is a brainlet
>I seethe and reply to and about him constantly instead of ignoring
>I am very smart

>>23530243
>>23530247
Fasciculumes

>>23530297
Cogita quod tu est el realus brainlet.

>>23530298
You mean fasciculi right

>>23530306
That sounds bad and kinda like a name of a foreign place

All who respond to him perpetuate the problem. Assume any antagonistic or asinine reply is the troll and ignore

>>23530417
Fasciculum hates fun

>>23530306
Wouldn’t it be fascisculos?

>>23530477
What happened to the M you can't just get rid of letters

>>23530417
fasciculus crematus

Worryingly fasciculesque behavior on display here

How do you say fasciculum in Greek
How do you say fasciculumes in Greek

>>23530417
Also worth reporting. The mods have generally deleted his posts when they get reported.

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I finally ordered my Exercitia Graeca for ΛΟΓΟΣ but it won't arrive for more than a week...

For other self-teaching anons, whether in Latin or Greek, what are your study regimens like? If you're a beginner or near beginner, how often do you use source text as a part of your study?

>>23530658
Give up. You'll never get good

Is there an official, unified pronunciation for church Latin and what is it?

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>>23530701
Cope. Like I've told you all before, soon you'll be asking my advice.

>>23530658
>For other self-teaching anons, whether in Latin or Greek, what are your study regimens like?
I study Latin. I try to study 4-5 days a week, and I follow the pomodoro method where I study for 25 minutes on, 5 minutes off. I try and go from 1.5-2 hours overall each day I study.
>>23530658
>If you're a beginner or near beginner, how often do you use source text as a part of your study?
What do you mean by this? How often does on read versus how often does on study grammar?

I just read 3 pages of text with lots of vocabulary I was unfamiliar with and damn am I burnt out
Time to look at other texts that I want to read

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>>23530850
I mean, do you just work through textbooks and only after you're "good enough" work with source material, are you primarily learning via source material rather than textbooks, or are you bouncing back and forth equally, or anything else.

I study 6 or 7 days a week, and am mostly using two textbooks, but a few days I read source material, focusing on reading fluidly and then looking at translations afterwards. I want to get a feel for how it sounds and flows more than increasing my vocabulary from it, but I do translate individual sections or lines myself when I get curious. I've learned some enjoyable words this way. I intend to transition to more and more source text as I improve.

>>23530658
>If you're a beginner or near beginner, how often do you use source text as a part of your study?
I think real Latin is probably too hard to start out on. You're just not going to grasp anything without some basics.

>>23530221

there's dedicated dictionnaries for old french
https://www.lexilogos.com/francais_ancien.htm

it's interesting as a french to read it ,it looks like french ,doesn't sound like french and vocabulary is half the same and somehow you can sometimes understand it and sometimes not

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Confess: are you sight reading or are you puzzling, buddy?

>>23532189
I give sight reading a chance until I’m sure there’s no way I’m going to understand a sentence. Then I approach as a puzzle.

Protip: if you're learning both Greek and Latin, look for 18th/19th century editions of Greek works with a Latin translation on the side. Tons of them have been digitized. I'm reading Callirhoe, which I've already read in Greek, in Latin rn. Even if the translation quality is meh it's still probably better than any modern translations into Latin.

>>23530658
For Latin I've gotten through LLPSI and I now read 20-30 pages of Steadman editions and readers each day. Also read some easier works like Eutropius and the Vulgate in only Latin with a dictionary. Will probably go through LLPSI again with audio at some point since I didn't read it too carefully the first time around. I also occasionally try to read Caesar or Nepos, to see if I've gotten gud enough yet, and I do some Caesar flashcards each day, inconsistently thoughbeit. Been studying for about 3 months.
For Greek, 30 mins min of the Bible with audio, and 30 mins-1 hour of another book. Right now I'm reading Barlaam and Iosaphat, about 5 pages a day. I read through the Greek trying to understand as much as possible while underlining words I don't recognize, then I go back through with a dictionary. Then I'll reread the section the next day. Been studying for a bit under 2 years now.
I try to read out loud or listen to audio recordings made by others as much as possible although I don't always. There's a paucity of good Greek recordings so I'll be making some of Arrian's Anabasis, Xenophon's Memorabilia, and all the novels soon to help other Greekgods.

>>23529822
Main focus was Latin. Ancient Greek for the smarter ones. Hebrew if they were a Jesuit or minister or something. Nobody outside of linguistics and Indology departments gave a fuck about Sanskrit.

>>23530750
see: >>23526003
"Hispania is the Church and the Church is Hispania"

>>23532252
>I'm reading Callirho
Da, quaeso, nexum ut possim quoque legere illum librum

>>23532414
Nemo non te dara quaeso

Justify yourself to me. Why are you studying classics instead of something useful?

>>23532464
why are you on 4chan? why do you post? why do you breathe? why are you not minmaxing your life like the good little anglo utilitarian bugman you are? don't reply to me unless you post your mcmansion's library.

>>23531151
What you're doing is pretty good, getting a grasp of the grammar through a textbook and then solidifying it through readings is the standard for a reason. A note though: if you can, try not to *translate* the sentences you read. It's fine at first just to make sure you're correct in your interpretations, but you ideally want to be in a place where you are reading IN GREEK, and the more you translate the harder that practice is to break.

>>23532470
>argumentem ad hominum
You have not a single argument.

>>23532504
Argumentum ad hominem*

>>23532464
Imagine going up to Erasmvs and asking him why he studied Latin and Greek instead of working at McDonalds to increase the GDP

>>23532504
Why do your argue with randoms on the internet instead of doing something useful?

So, Byzantine Greeks who were immersed in ancient literature since childhood and could fluently read Attic never realized that Plato wouldn’t have said “vasilefs”, but Erasmus after studying for a few years instantly realized modern pronunciation and ancient didn’t line up?
Another instance of the white man’s burden...we constantly have to lift unenlightened browns up from their ignorance, and they don’t show the slightest gratitude...

>>23532688
Zellig nation w. Greeks str8 up paid that Fanum tax in 1453 for they dumbass libtard PRONOUNciation

>>23532464
Learning “useful” things (by your definition) is what strivers, careerists, ladder-climbers, and other perpetually anxious narcissists do. They’ll never be satisfied unless they are constantly “gaining value”. I like to challenge myself and don’t care about what other people think or how much money I make. It’s the perfect anti-social hobby.

>Τῶν ἑτὲρων γενῶν καὶ ὑπ' ἄλληλα τεταγμὲνων ἕτεραι τῷ εἲδει καὶ αἱ διαφοραὶ (Aristotle, Categoriae, 1b16-17)
>When genera are co-ordinate and different, differentiae will differ in kind. (Cooke 1938, Loeb)
I couldn't make sense of this sentence when I read it and the translation has confused me more. What am I missing?

>>23532252
on a related note, I have one of those Didots on Plato and it seems most of the Latin is directly from Ficino's first translation, bar some corrections, which is kinda nice, I wanted from a long time to read Plato alongside his translations

>>23530658
>Latin
I'm far enough along that I just read something whenever I have the time and inclination. I've been going through Seneca's letters lately. But also some of Cicero's speeches.

>Greek
I'm an ultrabeginner and don't really have a routine yet. Just reading the first few chapters of Athenaze and other beginner materials. I haven't had the motivation yet to put together any declension or conjugation drills.

>>23532464
Nothing is useful. Classics are at least fun.

>>23532726
Put a comma after tetagmenon
Genitive absolute

>>23532726
are you sure the Greek is right even? I find a μὴ before ὑπ' ἄλληλα in two instances of the original
I'm not familiar with the technical vocabulary of Aristoteles, but it seems to somewhat make sense when you coordinate the two ἕτερος
somewhat literally
>of the «different» (non, if μὴ is present) co-ordinated(aka, literally, depending on each other) genera, different are also the "differentiae" by "kind"(I'm using the translation of διαφορά and εἶδος following the one you provided)
this is how I would interpret it without knowing the technical lexicon of Aristoteles as far as the grammatical sense

>>23532414
Look up Erōtikōn logōn syngrapheis digitale-sammlungen.de. Scan pages. 458-546.

>>23532813
I forgot to type the μὴ, that's my bad. Thank you and >>23532789 too for the replies, it makes sense now.

>>23532282
That isn't an official, unified pronunciation
>>23532464
Who said I'm learning only ancient languages?

>>23532189
Sight reading encourages making assumptions and not paying attention to context and nuance
Don't do it with a classical text

>>23533071
>Sight reading
Am I supposed to be taste reading instead? What are you talking about

>>23532868
tibi gratias ago vir humanissime

>>23526622
>Ranieri has half a dozen methods for learning ancient languages yet he isn't fluent in Greek.
Is any modern scholar actually fluent (in the active sense) or are they all Mary Beard tier who are passively fluent with Loebs. I guess the people who write the tiered Greek readers would be considered good in the active sense but all of them are in either Spain or Italy.

>>23533071
This sounds like cope.

>>23533148
Mary Beard and other cuckademics aren't actually trying to achieve fluency, just the "passive Loeb fluency", while Ranieri's whole gimmick is achieving actual fluency.

>>23533132
ΓΕΥΟΥ ΤΩΝ ΚΑΛΛΙΣΤΩΝ ΕΠΩΝ ΤΟΥ XΑΡΙΤΩΝΟΣ, ΦΙΛΕ.

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was Ørberg an incel?

>>23533408
Why would you even think that?

>>23533415
Because he cried every night knowing what he'd unleashed as yet another LLPSIster raged at passoids while struggling to photoshop out his stubble and mail pattern baldness. He wept as the Wheelockgods impregnated all the bitches with their superior grammarian seed. He attempted to halt the production of LLPSI many times out of sheer guilt

>>23533408
I want to push you down in the dirt and pee on the back of your neck

>>23533408
LLPSIsters... non quam sic...

>>23533219
Is Mary Beard a fascicula? I just wanna know for reasons

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Chud, virgin natural method user

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CHAD sex-having grammar-translation god

I feel that there are a lot of people who have studied dead languages who probably ought not to have.
What value does 'knowing' Latin provide to someone like Mary Beard?
Personally my motivation for studying a dead language is that I'm fascinated by that language and I also want to read the literature written in that language .

Is it just because of how the education system was designed? Did Mary Beard have to study Latin because it was a requirement of her MA/PHD?
There are clearly positions which require a deep knowledge of a certain language, for example people who work with manuscripts, fragments and inscriptions, but a lot of the major work has already been completed.

People talk about how classicists for a long time have been reading the English side of Loeb editions and only occasionally check the Latin/Greek side for when they want some clarity but it seems to me that the majority of researchers don't even need to do this. Are they all just pretending to be fluent readers of Latin/Greek and thus doing this checking in order that they don't get exposed as relying on English translations?
I don't remember where I saw this but there was a post by a Christian who was previously quite sceptical about modern translations of the Bible and he said that the one thing he learnt after studying Ancient Greek was that in fact, you could trust modern translations of the Bible and that the translators were very competent.

>>23533583
nice effort post but you are a fasciculum

>>23533148
>Mary Beard tier
She is a product of when philology was still a thing. Imagine the level at which modern classics scholars will be, since they are too busy larping as social workers trying to bring more LGBTQIKYSA+ visibility to middle aged aristocrats bugging enslaved teens instead of mastering the material as a whole.

>>23533624
There will be a very hard distinction where some zoomer classicists will be fluent Latin speakers who have mastered the corpus and some will just be zogged libtard social workers. The former will teach at Catholic schools or run their own private tutoring services and the latter will control the universities.

>>23533583
When I see a woman studying anything like classics or philology I feel something halfway between "that's nice dear" and "get this cunt out of here before she mucks it up with her dilettantism"

>>23533583
>People talk about how classicists for a long time have been reading the English side of Loeb editions
Piggy backing off the efforts of real classicists
>it seems to me that the majority of researchers don't even need to do this
They don't they just CTRL+F on other scholar's works instead of reading the primary sources themselves https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a20mLYi6v7s (see minute 22 to 23)
>Are they all just pretending to be fluent readers of Latin/Greek
They are just doing social studies at this point.

I close with this quote from Neitzsche, "Besides, we are friends of the lento, I and my book. I have not been a philologist in vain — perhaps I am one yet: a teacher of slow reading. I even come to write slowly. At present it is not only my habit, but even my taste — a perverted taste, maybe — to write nothing but what will drive to despair every one who is ‘in a hurry.’ For philology is that venerable art which exacts from its followers one thing above all — to step to one side, to leave themselves spare moments, to grow silent, to become slow — the leisurely art of the goldsmith applied to language: an art which must carry out slow, fine work, and attains nothing if not lento. Thus philology is now more desirable than ever before; thus it is the highest attraction and incitement in an age of ‘work’: that is, of haste, of unseemly and immoderate hurry-skurry, which is so eager to ‘get things done’ at once, even every book, whether old or new. Philology itself, perhaps, will not so hurriedly ‘get things done.’ It teaches how to read well, that is, slowly, profoundly, attentively, prudently, with inner thoughts, with the mental doors ajar, with delicate fingers and eyes. My patient friends, this book appeals only to perfect readers and philologists: learn to read me well!"

Ito, tibi hortor, Textkit, ne te eripiant in mediocritatem fasciculumes, omnino qui expertes sunt illius caloris quam tam cupide cupimus humanitatis, tantum sibi studientes se pedicari ut placeat fasciculumibus, los eorum totos.
Ego seriosamente spero quod tu me escuchabas, ne el pessimus de los fasciculumes fias.

>>23533970
Fuck off troll

>>23533970
had a good laugh

>>23533969
God you write so faggoty
Fuck off fasciculum

U got pegged by Mary "gorrillaclit Beard

>>23533969
>I close with this quote from Neitzsche,
LMFAO who do you think you are

>>23534014
He is an educated man, unlike (You), mexcrement

>>23534017
Sorry I don't speak fasciculum

Are stoics cucked?

>>23525982
how do you guys usually recognize the use of a case or a clause when reading? understanding why a noun is in the ablative or accusative confuses me way too much

>>23533583
For many historians, especially Medieval and Early Modern ones knowing Latin is completely a necessity because the majority of texts are not translated, especially when it comes to administrative documents like the English rolls which are all in Latin and you cannot make a serious study into any period of English history past 1100 without using them. Even some Roman texts are still not translated and probably won't be for decades, of course all major ones have been translated but obviously, you're still left with the dozens of minor works especially from Late Antiquity.
>he said that the one thing he learnt after studying Ancient Greek was that in fact, you could trust modern translations of the Bible and that the translators were very competent.
I haven't really read much non-Loeb modern translations but I always got the sense they were competent. What I read in Latin and what they translate it as aren't really different in essence most of the time.
>>23533624
Mary Bead is rather infamous for saying that because a lot of researchers do actually know the language they need to research in. She's just personally incompetent at it.

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>>23534154
Honestly, you just gotta keep reading. It seems pretty dumb but you recognize the form just by reading them in different contexts as much as you can, if you go through any textbook like LLPSI or Wheelocks eventually it'll just come to you and most accusative, nominative and genitive will just stick in your head right away.

>>23534166
>>23534154

also how do you deal with clauses without subjects or no verb other than an infinitive?

>>23534006
retarded fascicule

>>23534191
Indirect speech is abundant in Latin literature. It won't take long for you to get used to it by reading.

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>>23532275
Inspirational. I can't believe the pace you're going with Latin. I'm impressed.
>making recordings
Sounds fun. Perhaps I'll try it myself eventually. Record my own Greek lyric someday for the giga-nerd audience.

>>23532503
>reading IN GREEK, and the more you translate the harder that practice is to break.
I'll keep that in mind, thanks, and try not to translate when I don't need to.

>>23532768
>I'm far enough along that I just read something whenever I have the time and inclination.
Beautiful. I long to be there. I would really love to read through Horace just as if I was reading in English.
>declension or conjugation drills
Drills? What do you mean? Whatever you mean, I should probably be doing the same.

95% of Latin's difficulty is the FUCKING ABLATIVE

>>23534494
Just translate an ablative by fixing the word "with" in front of the word.

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Imagine sculpting this and then not calculating the amount of space you need for a subtitle on it

I just finished reading my first primary source.
It got a bit boring towards the end because it was just a list of bishops and their lifespans but was still rewarding.

>>23534154
I'm Polish so I don't have to, because it's natural to me. I don't speak Latin or Ancient Greek though.
In declined languages you have suffixes that give detail to the action. In English you can inflect monkey to monkey/monkeys/monkey's/monkeys' and that's pretty much it, but you recognize they are different. But in highly declined languages you have way more of these forms that indicate also the gender of the doer, the plurality of the doer, whether the noun is the object or a subject and other details whether the action is done towards or away from this noun etc. and it's all encoded in one word. With English you have to split that into several words like "with monkey", "to monkeys", "of monkey's" etc.

>>23534548
I mean that's obvious, but with Latin and Greek you also have to deal with hyperbaton, internal accusatives, verbs that govern the genitive or the ablative, etc etc.

Rex venit ante fores, jurans prius urbis honores
Post homo fit pape, sumit quo dante coronam
The king came front of doors, promising/swearing/confirming first honors of The city /Of Roma
After the man made pope, submitting to who give the Crown

The king came at the Doors of Roma, Confirming her eminent place
And The king submit to the Pope who give him the crown.

Did i fail?

>>23534714
I think prius goes together with post, it's adverbial. Pape I believe is medieval for papae, so I'd say
>A king comes before the gates, first taking an oath in the honor of Rome
>Then he is made a man of the pope, and from him he accepts the crown

What's your favorite homreic epithet?
What's your favorite racist epithet?

>>23534154
Just read more easy literature. It will cease being a problem for the most part after you've read enough. The declensions that look the same (like ae or whatever) will usually be clear through context, and if not, just puzzle over for a few seconds.

>>23534316
>I would really love to read through Horace just as if I was reading in English.
I'm still a long way from that. I read slowly, keep a dictionary handy, and frequently check my understanding against a translation. But I'm slowly getting better.

As for drills, I mean things like flashcards to learn vocab and quizzing myself on declensions and conjugations to learn the patterns.

>>23535170
Youre a bitch

>>23534154
>how do you guys usually recognize the use of a case
Drilling case endings, after enough reading you stop registering them and just understand them. Though sometimes you'll be puzzling over something and then realize it's an instance where the ablative and the nominative are the same and you go "oops, ablative"
>clauses
clauses usually are started by words that only start clauses, in my experience
>understanding why a noun is in the ablative or accusative confuses me way too much
You just have to drill those. You begin to get a "sense" of each case the more you read. I have an internal feeling of something being "ablative" that I couldn't really explain.

Kill yourself

>>23534154
English pronouns inflect for case.
"He" is nominative.
"His" is genitive.
"Him" is accusative and dative; "to him" is unambiguously dative.
"From him" is ablative.
The only difference is that all Latin nouns inflect for case. If this makes English sound impoverished and inflexible, yes, it is.

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τέκμαρ ἔρωτος ὑφ' εἴ και ὀνειροῖς ἐσκοτοωθῇ
καὶ τότ' ἀρ' οὐ μονοὺ ὄντος μή τι συ ἄλγε φίλε

Ive taken some elective classes in Anc. Greek back at uni and the course relied heavily on grammar and vocab drills, the book was some uni issued translating textbook with only authentic text.

And now ive been going at it again as a hobby, 2-3 hours a day for the last month, just reading Thrasymachus, Reading Greek, and Athenaze, its very fun to do, and im happy with my progress.

However i can still remember most of what i had to memorize, even some 20 irregular verbs, after not using it for 3 years.

How important it is to memorize shit like this? Im not sure whether i should start with flashcards again, or just continue with just reading and the occasional grammar review.

I feel like im just going to hit a wall sometime and i will have to just do it anyways.

>>23535170
Ah, I see. Well, keep it up, anon. Good work.

>>23535348
>all Latin nouns inflect for case
enjoy your bloat publius

Want to learn some Latin to give flavour to my stories. Where should I begin?

>>23535666
Trips confirm devil leading us astray. Begone, satan

>>23535666
Wheelocks if you consider yourself clever. If not, I'd advise you just to learn a few words and be done. Latin isn't for the slow of wit

>>23535666
Post stories

>>23535666
What's the story about? Latin flavor text in a story about a monk is going to be very different from Latin flavor text in a story about a Roman.

>>23535666
Wheelock is the clearly superior option as agreed by clg

>>23535666
LLPSI has the best trans representation

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>>23535462
>εἴ
*ἐὰν
>ἐσκοτοωθῇ
*σκοτοωθῇ
>ἄλγε
*ἄλγει ?

>>23535348
Him is oblique
The prepositions from and to don't exactly match to ablative and dative

>>23535722
a fascicule posted this

>>23536040
nice larp but the local mexcrement would never decline fasciculum in the vocative

>>23536048
1. I am not larping
2. I am not the mexcrement
3. "fascicule" is the anglicised form of fasciculum. it is now a proper english word

>>23536053
Would fascicle not work better?

>>23536063
sane recte disseris

>>23536040
>>23536048
>>23536063
>>23536075
quod emotio quod ego habeo tantos fans :)

>>23536121
>correct use of the accusative
based, you're improving!
soon you'll pick up a textbook and become just like the rest of us

>>23536138
don't give him positive reinforcement, that's just a Spanish word again
ὁ φασκικουλὸς καì δὴ καì εὖ λέγων ἁμαρτάνει

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>>23536159
no you're the fasciculum

>>23535462
gay game

>>23536138
thank u:)

>>23535329
Kill yourself

>>23536048
>Mexcrement
It's probably another Singapoorean like that Constantranny.

>>23536195
confirmed in America and posts incoherent Latin with spanish grammar. 100% mexcrement

>>23536159
ἆρα οὐ γέλοιον ἐστιν εἰ δεινὸς Ῥωμαϊκῶς λέγειν γίγνεται? δοκεῖ καὶ τοὺς φασκικουλοὺς ὀτρύνειν.

>>23536197
I'm not sure with all the vitriol against oriental languages make it sound like it's an unhinged gatekeeping easttranner with a hatred for browns.

>>23536209
mexes hate Chinese so much they banned them from their country

>>23536209
Are we even sure this is the same person?

>>23536213
Exploding cars aren't people.

fascicles, all of you

>>23536206
γέλοιος δή ὁς γὰρ πανταπασῖν ἀδύνατον ἐστιν

>>23536229
you're the fasciculum

The ape is still here? I wish /lit/ had actual janitors

>>23529753
You're probably gone, but this guy:
https://kafkafuura.wordpress.com/classical-japanese/
Is nice for a specialised introduction to Classical Japanese. But I would recommend getting some basic Japanese knowledge first, you'll probably find the DJT OP on /jp/ useful as will

>>23536243
>animeposting
The absolute state of lit
occidere tu ipsum heathen fasciculum

>>23536267
>Ook ook AAK
What a silly post that

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What a shitty thread

>>23536296
Agreed, the quality has genuinely got worse. I doubt anyone listens to the troll so I wonder what caused it

>>23536303
I really have no idea as to what else might.

>>23536303
Some students of Oriental language did leave /clg/. Unless /elg/ is just a ploy to siphon serious posters away.

>>23536303
it's honestly because you fasciculumes are super unlikable

NOVUM
>>23536430
>>23536430
>>23536430

>>23536317
no shit, he made the /elg/ threads, mostly with anti-chinese OP images

>that first post
>"Greek or Latin" in the OP
can someone make a non-troll thread?

>>23536538
Non-troll new thread
REPORT AND IGNORE TROLL POSTS. REPORT RESPONSES TO THE TROLL.
Let's get back on track here
>>23536600
>>23536600
>>23536600