So apparently this book is now popular among normies (namely performative males). How difficult of a read is it? On a scale of Haruki Murakami to James Joyce, where would you place Infinite Jest?
>>25056755Joyce with less plot
>>25056755In the trash. With all American prose stylists.
>>25056755>performative maleskys
>>25056755It's not difficult on a sentence level, you'll never be confused what's happening at any given moment like you might with Joyce, but it's so long and packed with information that you *might* have trouble with stamina, keeping track of characters and plotlines, and synthesizing everything into something meaningful, but it's the easiest of the meme trilogy by far.
>>25056755Do performative females exist?
>>25056775Unironically, non-performative females don't exist.
>>25056755whats the point and plot of this book?Just playing Tennis at Uni?
>>25056775Do authentic ones still make babies or are they all lesbians and whores now?
>>25056782I think it's that, one way or another, we live in a world built to alienate us from one another via addiction.
>>25056755That’s true OP that this book has many large phrases.
>>25056762Oh my god shut up faggot.
>>25056755I got memed into reading it from this board over a decade ago and recently reread it a few months back. Definitely better than Murakami, definitely worse than Joyce. Prescient about entertainment / Zoom video calling, faintly Puritan, sometimes tedious, almost always entertaining, worth the time to read. There's a long passage that's in AAVE lmfao. You have to read the footnotes. Always thought Hal Incandenza was vaguely embarrassing for DFW -- some kind of idealized self-portrait where DFW's halfhearted attempts to deflate his own "image" don't really work because of his incredible narcissism. otoh I love Don Gately, even though DFW leans heavy on the "this guy's a fucking IDIOT" characterization earlier in the book. Some beautiful writing in Infinite Jest too. There's a scene where one minor character rapes another minor character to death with a broom handle and the part where the guy getting raped to death right before he dies starts remembering ice skating on the pond with his brother that's shockingly moving, as weird as that is to type out. >>25056771is right. Infinite Jest isn't a "hard" book. The Sound and the Fury is hard. The Making of Americans is hard. Ulysses is hard. Infinite Jest is just very long and very detailed. >>25056782It's set in a weird future Boston MA. One narrative follows a group of high school tennis prodigies at a private tennis academy, the other narrative follows a halfway house full of recovering addicts, and there's a background MacGuffinesque plot about a movie that's so entertaining it kills you. (Specifically, it's so entertaining that if you see it all you want to do is watch it again and again -- you'll cut off fingers to see it again, shit yourself bc you don't want to go to the bathroom, not eat for a week because can't take eyes of screen, etc.)
>>25056755It's definitely harder than 1Q84 but it's definitely easier than Ulysses & FW. The sheer size of the book notwithstanding, it's probably in the middle, though probably slightly closer to Joyce since it's well known that DFW was a fan.IF is just about information/trivia overload, any retard can get through it, it's just a matter of how long it will take you.Meanwhile, Ulysses expects you to grasp many Dante/Shakespeare/Tennyson allusions, many Irish history references, the structural parallels to Homer, a decent understanding of several languages (particularly French, Latin and Italian) and of course, most importantly, the several styles, devices and techniques the book employes: catechism, interior monologue, parralax, scholasticism, allegory vs anagoge, dialectics and vignettes, etc.
>itt: retards rate book difficulty while demonstrating they completely missed the pointkek.
>>25056755>is now popular>now
>>25056877>The Sound and the Fury is hard. The Making of Americans is hard. Ulysses is hard.Agreed.
It was popular among white know it all teenagers in the 2000s. Very fucking "easy" read. It's just long.
>>25056911LMAO that's great which is your fav
Any of you in the IJ is easy crowd want to demonstrate you did more than just finished it? Getting the strong impression you guys are judging difficulty based on how hard it is to finish instead of how hard it is to comprehend.
>>25057047Someone's butthurt we don't think his favorite book is as difficult of a read as Joyce.
>>25057056Nah, IJ did not even make my top 25 >>25028142. I just feel like proving you guys to be retarded, not that anyone will meet the challenge.
>>25056892>Meanwhile, Ulysses expects you to grasp many Dante/Shakespeare/Tennyson allusions, many Irish history references, the structural parallels to Homer, a decent understanding of several languages (particularly French, Latin and Italian) and of course, most importantly, the several styles, devices and techniques the book employes: catechism, interior monologue, parralax, scholasticism, allegory vs anagoge, dialectics and vignettes, etc.That's probably why Bloom likes the book so much. I think he was bullshitting when claimed that he could read 1k words per hour, but I do believe that he has read through entire library catalogues. A man with that much knowledge and intelligence requires an intellectual challenge
>>25057098he claimed he could read 1000 pages per hour, not words.>>25057070what exactly are you even looking for?
>>25057035Definitely Ulysses, it's a supreme masterpiece. The last 4 chapters are all utterly magnificent. But I also love Faulkner and Stein, mainly her poetry (Stanzas in Meditaiton is my favorite of hers) but Making of Americans is kino once you get adjusted to its repetitive style.
>>25057126Proof of comprehension? Thought I was pretty cleat about that.
>>250570981k words an hour isn't that rare, some politicians take speed reading classes and can get 600-800 words an hour and they aren't lit nerds.
>>25057149Anon, average reading speed is 1800 wph.
>>25057138What would you accept as proof, you fucking retard? I'm not writing an essay to prove to some chud on 4chan that I understood his favorite book if he's just going to disappear once he gets clowned.
>>25057149>implying they read the shit they sign
>>25057174Do you not know what "comprehend" means? This is not complex and should not require writting an essay, especially for such an easy book.
>>25057126Yeah, that was my fuck up.
>>25057177most shit politicians read arent bills or laws, burgertard
>>25057155hahahahahahahahavery good!
>>25057217It is actually closer to 18k, 200-300 wpm.
>>25057155>average reading speedanon... it's about 15,000 not 1800... approx 250 words per minute for the average English adult reader
I bought this a while back. Should I wait till I finish a good chunk of the books I have right now? Is it a book that needs all my attention?
I literally just finished reading it like 5 minutes ago and here's a thread. What the hell was that ending?
>>25057174Were you home schooled?>>25057624Gately finally confronted those things from his past which he had been avoiding. What is so difficult about it?
>>25057629I mean just structurally it ends in such an odd spot. I guess you might be right about how it ends for that character but it's where it ends that I was talking about. I just quickly reread the first chapter to get a fuller picture of what happened.
>>25057659How it ends for Gately is how it ends structurally, structure is built on theme, not plot.
>>25057664I guess... I'll sleep on it and get back to you tomorrow
>>25057659I am feeling expansive so I will go on. The core structure of IJ is Gately's story, every other character is following the same arc but at a different stage in that arc and is used to more thoroughly explore and develop the part of the arc which they inhabit. This is primarily accomplished through giving the same information about every character, all that changes is their unique context—that common information we get about each character, their past up to their point in the present or more accurately the part of the arc which they inhabit. This is essentially a slight tweak on the old Naturalist structure but made recursive and part of this recursion is that characters are used to directly explore and provide exposition on other character; we see this most in Marathe and Steeply's conversation which primarily serves to develop the ideas of the novel, but they are still characters on the arc. The first chapter as the last chapter is primarily plot level but is also an explicit example of the structure's recursion, it is a blunt clue towards that structure. >>25057689lol. Just start looking at that common information we get for every character and things will start falling into place.
>>25056755I make it a point of never reading it. A book so famously and intentionally obtuse cannot be good. It must be frustrating to read and that's only a positive for performative readers.
>>25057716>thinking is hard
>>25057721Did I say that? Are you illiterate?
>>25057721If you going to imply something from my post at least attempt to make an argument, ot is thinking too hard for you?
>>25057728You did say that, but you buried it in a bunch of limp justifications. >>25057731Not being able to take a moment to form your response before replying is not helping your case. Will there be a third response?
>>25056775Yes they are called pick me girls and actually precede performative males as a derogatory term
>>25057562It is. It's not necessarily complex aside for the gimmick of jumping back and forth between the main thing and the notes (get two bookmarks) but it's very dense in information so if you out it down and come back to after reading something else you risk forgetting stuff and find yourself lost
>>25056755>So apparently this book is now popular among normiesDid you just step out of a time machine from the 2010s? Because you're certainly not describing the world in 2026
>>25057070so what makes you like pale king better than ij?
>>25057056Lol this retard thinks finishing hard books is some sort of prize
>>25058101I finished and I understood it and it is a much easier book than anything by Joyce or Pynchon and you can die mad about it.
Wallace mogs Pynchon.
>>25058106I enjoy Wallace's writing more, but he is also a much easier read and it's not even close. Give it up.
>>25058106I like Pynchon slightly more. IF is better than most of his books but I didn't prefer it to GW or V.
>>25058104And? Difficulty is never the point. Funny you brought up pynchon. Would pynchon be difficult if he actually bothered to contextualize all the hundreds of his transitional scenes and wrote something beyond cheap allegories? (is it also surprising that most of his carboard characters engage in zany hijinks which are set to muh theme? It's just a cheapening of the complexities of the real world and a respite no different from the kind genre authors take when they can't probe the real world beyond the landmarks known to them). His actual linguistic level, i.e. his talent with prose, is about the same as DFW. DFW could have made IJ way harder to read but that accomplishes nothing and makes the book worse considering his project and aesthetic. Ulysses works because it justifies its difficulty; being largely a peek in the cluttered and private and marginalia-heavy mind of 2 dubliners. Ulysses is difficult because it aspires toward versimilitude that coincides with its themes and Joyce's project. It isn't good because it's difficult. Nor is Joyce a better writer for writing a hard book (afterall, FW is shit compared to Ulysses). As Lord Byron said, Hard writing makes for easy reading. You seem like a massive anti-art pleb.
>>25058123The OP is specifically asking about its difficulty, you fucking retard. Maybe pay attention to context when people say it's not that difficult compared to other books it frequently gets categorized with. Idiot.
>>25058127Go back to /v/.
>>25058129You're the one that shows signs of not being able to read, cunt.
>>25058134You're clearly a tourist and a retarded one at that. Clear /v/ermin behavior from the way you take some sort of contentment from "putting down" something you don't like in whatever form possible. My response was not to the OP, retard. It was a response to your wormbrained idea that anyone could give 2 shits about which book is harder to read.
>>25058123>And? Difficulty is never the point.you're showing your entire ass. anon asked how difficult it is on a scale of murakami to joyce. the difficulty is the point of this conversation.
>>25058138Just admit you didn't read the OP and go kys.
>>25058140/v/ tier syntax with howlers like "showing your entire ass"
>>25058143>>25058129
>>25058143there's always some bro in these threads that can't admit when he's wrong
>>25058151>samefaggingKys /v/ermin
>>25058158nope but believe what you want i don't careanyone with a pair of eyes can see you came in here dick out and angry about dfw being called 'easy' even though the context was that he's just easier than joyce which is what anon asked aboutbut instead of just saying whoops and moving on with your life like a normal person you doubled down
>>25058164The only one who cares about DFW being easier than Joyce is you, retard. You threw a hissy fit when someone chose not to acknowledge the difficulty question traditionally:>>Someone's butthurt we don't think his favorite book is as difficult of a read as Joyce.Sounds like a 15 year old on an old COD server
>>25058179>On a scale of Haruki Murakami to James Joyce, where would you place Infinite Jest?like i said, there's always some bro in these threads who can't admit when he's wrongi didn't call you butthurt but believe whatever you want. you're going to insist you're right anyway no matter what i say this thread is a waste of time. i hope anon feels his question got answered - which is that dfw is easier than joyce - before you shat the place up with your intellectual insecuritygood luck to you anon
>>25058189Now back to /v/
The lauded bestseller with over a million sold copies written by a Pulitzer nominee is... popular? Not sure I'm ready to believe such a hot take.
>>25056775Yes, all women
Is it popular again? Great. It seemed like for awhile normies hated it because of #metoo. I guess it shows a novel of this quality will always win out.>>25058123Absolute truthnukes in both paragraphs, anon. >orson welles clapping.gif
should I read infinite jest or gravity's rainbow first
>>25058123>And? Difficulty is never the point. Funny you brought up pynchon. Would pynchon be difficult if he actually bothered to contextualize all the hundreds of his transitional scenes and wrote something beyond cheap allegories? (is it also surprising that most of his carboard characters engage in zany hijinks which are set to muh theme? It's just a cheapening of the complexities of the real world and a respite no different from the kind genre authors take when they can't probe the real world beyond the landmarks known to them). His actual linguistic level, i.e. his talent with prose, is about the same as DFW.I don't think /lit is ready for this conversation.
>>25058282Gravity's Rainbow
>>25058266>>25058286Samefagging. Always projection with you faggots.
>>25056755It's shit abs if you actuality read it people will laugh at you
>>25058286But it really needs to be had.
>>25058123>Intentional difficulty and obscurity is bad...>Unless it's something I likeIt's always the same schizophrenic aesthetics with you prosefags
First time here since /lit/ got covid and shat the bed. You all have spent the past 6 years rolling in it and breathing deep, haven't you?
>>25057711alright I'm awake and thinking again. I very much see where you're coming from. Gately's story feels by far the most complete, and honestly I thought the story ended with him dying until I reread the first chapter. My "wut" feeling was more for the total lack of plot resolution, it just sort of ends in the middle of things only vaugly pointing at an eventual climax, but I'm understand now that was the point and the rest can be more or less understand just from implications in the first chapter. It's like a 2000 page story where only the first 1100 were written.
>>25058062DFW is ultimately a technician and he had not completely figured out how to resolve that with his goals as a writer when he wrote IJ; he pushes it into the background and almost seems to be fighting his natural inclinations as a writer. He still gives us plenty but the primary mode of IJ is realism, he just extends the realist treatment of character to the narrator, which was no small feat. In TPK he embraces his nature and goes all in on exploiting his formidable technical skills and interestingly reconciles metafiction with his views of literature. Combine that with TPK being unfinished and have chapters ranging from very rough first drafts to finely polished and complete and we get a great deal of insight into his technique and his methods. TPK does lack the emotional impact of IJ but I think he realized that in pushing away from the indirect methods of postmodernism he ended up doing exactly what he was trying to avoid, people fixated on the emotional content and missed the point in the same way many fixate on the techniques of postmodernism and miss the point. TPK finds a balance, figures out how to structure a novel around the metafiction without making it dependent on the metafiction.>>25058660Plot does resolve but plot is not the entertainment, plot is that recursive plot which is built off of Gately and every character is a part of. The whole intrigue line is just an extension of Marathe and Steeply's conversation, commentary on the plot, a way to explore the characters of the primary plot. That secondary plot also resolves but it is difficult to see how it resolves until you understand the primary plot. One of the things which many miss is that the narrator is a character, a part of the recursive plot built off of Gately, we just interact with him through his job as a narrator instead of his life; the narrator has already "made it" and reduced his life to his job, performance, become the grim machine required to be a narrator at the top of their game. Compare the narrator in an early chapter like Erdeddy to the narrator at the end, stark difference, the insightful and empathetic narrator who understands every aspect of the scene they are narrating and how that information relates to the whole is gone, he struggles to even provide a narration of the literal events as they unfold. The narrator is unreliable, he is falling apart at the seams and sees no point in any of it, its a paycheck to fund a life not worth living. All that stuff about performance and the show/making it that we get at ETA and Ennet/AA applies just as much to the narrator and everyone else. Easiest way to understand this all is to just strip away everything even remotely fantastical and write it off as the narrator just making shit up to fill in the gaps caused by his ceasing to care, focus on the main plot. The first chapter is the resolution for the narrator, not Hal. Never forget about the narrator.
>>25059009>Plot does resolve but plot is not the entertainment, plot is that recursive plot which is built off of Gately and every character is a part of.I guess you'll have to explain this to me a little bit more. I get that every main character is in some part of an addiction cycle (sans maybe Mario?) and Gately's is the most complete but I don't see it as the frame that the others are built off of. It seems more like that addiction is just a main theme of the book, not that addiction cycles itself are a plot. I wonder if you're using the word "plot" to mean "themes".>One of the things which many miss is that the narrator is a characterI feel like this is very questionable, but I sort of see where it's coming from. The narrator changes a lot depending on who they're narrating. Erdedy's chapter early on is that detailed because it's Erdedy's perspective, time is moving slow for him because he's waiting for his pot and he's noticing every little thing around the apartment in slow motion. I don't think I agree that he breaks down in real time, and if anything that's an artifact of Wallace himself growing more tired as the book went further along. I don't see the empathy waning, and I absolutely don't buy that the supernatural stuff is just the narrator getting lazy.It also doesn't explain Hal's POV switching between 3rd and 1st person once his mental breakdown starts. Hal is the narrator of his own life from the snowstorm morning on.
>>25059109For a great many characters we get insight into their family and upbringing and this includes characters who are not addicts and/or whose parents were not addicts, and those people who live lives untouched by addiction are not exactly living great lives. The book spends a great deal of time on this subject, probably more than it does on addiction and we are told over and over not to blame upbringing for addiction, right? Why do these characters fall into addiction, what purpose does it serve in their life? Does that tell us anything about the characters who are not addicts? are they using something else to the same ends? Every character is on the same path as Gately and we get his life story, we can hold every character up to his arc and plot theirs, fill in the gaps and understand them as fully as we understand Gately. The narrator goes into the same level of detail for Gompert and the Medical Attache and many others in that first part of the book, the narrator has a well developed voice during the first ~third. The narrator's evolution is clear and well defined if you look for it, the use of free indirect speech slowly increases as the book wears on, narrator makes little mistakes which he often corrects after the fact, tries to explain away oddities in the narration, etc. Treat the narrator as a character and apply all that stuff on performance and what it takes to make it in the show or make it out there Why can't a third person narrator, narrate a character in the first person? Couldn't the narrator simply and literally relaying a characters inner monologue in a predominately 3rd person novel be viewed as a degradation in the narrator?>Wallace himself growing more tired as the book went further along.And his accomplished and well respected editor just missed it over the two year editing process? and the book was highly celebrated despite this major flaw? Wallace did not write linearly from page one to the end and IJ went through major reworking from first draft to final product, it was originally 1700 pages with a short simple and linear story, the bulk was in the end notes. It evolved after he started working with his editor on it, bulk of the foot notes were moved into the main story and it was made non-linear. If this was just a result of Wallace running out of steam the degradation would not be linear, the narrator's voice would be a mess. TPK gives a great deal of insight into Wallace's writing process, anything but linear.
>>25059272I recognize you, it's been awhile.
>>25056755>>25056762The nigger chapters are unendurable
>>25056775Females exist, yes, no need to be redundant.
>>25059546The Wardine chapter really never should have seen the light of day. It's the worst part by miles.
>>25059272So if you believe this narrator theory, do you basically think the last 1/3 of the whole book just didn't happen?>Why can't a third person narrator, narrate a character in the first person?Why would he switch if he is supposed to be a separate character? Seems far more likely that the perspective switch is an indication of Hal's mental state changing, no?
>>25057778Do you recommend reading this on the side while reading another book?
>>25059532It has probably been a year since I last made any IJ effort posts. Post occasionally on other books but it is not often I can justify it these days. >>25059632>do you basically think the last 1/3 of the whole book just didn't happen?How do you come to that conclusion? I have no idea how to respond to this, how would the narrator falling back on just relaying internal monologue verbatim, negate the events relayed?>Why would he switch if he is supposed to be a separate character? Because he is giving up doing his job? Relaying internal monologue verbatim requires nothing from an omniscient narrator, does not need to be observant or empathetic, just needs to relay the internal monologue. >Seems far more likely that the perspective switch is an indication of Hal's mental state changing, no?Why not both? After the Inner Infant meeting, Hal recedes into himself, offers little for the narrator to narrate because he is just laying about and doing nothing, thinking over his life and his father's life, watching his father's films, etc. Gately is not much different, just laying there doing nothing. That makes up 90% of the last third, most everything happening is in the heads of two characters.
>>25056755It was popular with performative males 20 years ago when I was in college. I'm pretty sure it was only ever popular with performative faggots.
>>25059742>It was meme with meme memes 20 memes ago when I was meme. I'm pretty sure it was only meme with meme memes.
>>25059746A hurt dog will holler.
>>25059731>How do you come to that conclusion? I have no idea how to respond to this, how would the narrator falling back on just relaying internal monologue verbatim, negate the events relayed?I guess I misinterpreted what you were saying. You basically said he was making stuff up and ignore the supernatural>Relaying internal monologue verbatim requires nothing from an omniscient narrator, does not need to be observant or empathetic, just needs to relay the internal monologue. Hmmm, I get what you're saying. But I think the internal monologues simply grow more important for these specific characters as the story goes on. It's selective, not lazy.>That makes up 90% of the last third, most everything happening is in the heads of two characters.Which I think supports my narrative, too.
>>25059748A retard will reeeeee.
Avril = Luria
>>25056755It's not hard or obtuse, it's just long and makes you consult endnotes, which means you have to keep jumping back and forth, and this slows down the as is non-chronological narrative. It's a perfectly fine, entertaining novel. There's no point in making it a performance, because anyone who has actually read it will know it's not hard and anyone who hasn't has nothing of value to contribute to the conversation.
>>25059776This theory has never made sense
>>25059794work on your media literacy nigga
>>25059776I rolled my eyes so hard when I read IJ and got to that part because there was no subtlety to it. When I searched about it everyone on the dfw and ij sub-reddits explained how this theory was true and since I've only read it once I'm not as versed in the book as they were to disprove it. And I'm not even saying it's wrong. But it's so glaringly obvious I can't help but think DFW had some kind of misdirection in mind. It just seems like in a book with a lot of unanswered questions and pieces you have to put together the whole Avril=Luria seems so out of place. Or maybe he just wanted it to be obvious because it had some deeper thematic function rather than plot.
>>25059853How would Orin not lknow his mother? Shit don't even make any sense.
>>25059861It would also require Avril to be capable of bilocation and leaving the ETA grounds and be a very well known personality but somehow keeping it from everyone at ETA.
Avril is 6'5. Is Luria ever noted to be freakishly tall?
>>25059853assuming that orin did indeed lay the pipe to avril when he was a boy there is no chance he wouldn't realize that he is fucking his mother again.
>>25059894Only people involved in incestuous relationships with their mother can recognize their mother?
>>25059915You would be a lot more likely to recognize your own mother's pussy, if that were the case
>>25058660Don't indulge this guy. He shows up in every IJ thread attempting to steer to conversation in his retarded direction.
It's great to see some actual discussion on literature, but please remember we have tourists from /v/ here who get upset if you discuss anything beyond "it's hard" and "it's not hard" so can we please limit the amount of literature discussion?
>>25060176Shut the fuck up you miserable faggot, and read a book that isn't IJ so you can talk about something else once in your miserable fucking life instead of monitoring this thread 24/7.
>>25060176Personally I'd prefer to discuss how Mario restored my faith in humanity
>>25060141Link the thread were he humiliated you.
>>25059839Media literacy tells me that if two characters are described as looking completely different, being in two different places doing two different things constantly, and share nothing in common personality-wise, they're probably not the same character even if they share a home town.
>>25057132>Alone, what did Bloom feel?>The cold of interstellar space, thousands of degrees below freezing point or the absolute zero of Fahrenheit, Centigrade or Réaumur: the incipient intimations of proximate dawn.And>BLOOM: (wonderstruck, calls inaudibly) Rudy!are two of the most beautiful moments I’ve ever read, for different reasons, Circe and Ithaca really are something else.
>start infinite jest>second chapter just drones on and on about a degenerate weedheadis the whole book just "ive tried weed lol"?
>>25060640no there's plenty of other drugs
me read infinite jest, but me think hard. now me read minecraft, me read fortnite, me read call of duty. it not hard.
>>25060675Like 50% of this thread is you sucking yourself off. OP's question has been answered and he's long gone, leaving just you. Since you have never read anything else, it's not like you can just go to another thread.
>>25060634Wonderful selections. I love how Ithaca can have language that's so technical and analytical but it still generates such powerful responses out of me, it's one of the best things Joyce ever wrote.
Good points. It's good to see other anons who can discuss literature.
>>25060788Yeah, there's still a few of us who can still discuss Joyce, DFW, et. al. with at least some depth. Let's just all keep posting and bring the iq of the board up.
>be me>decide to finally read IJ>like 3 chapters in>a fundamental character description contradicts itself only a couple pages laterI don't think this book... is for me
>>25059761I said to strip away the fantastical and focus on the main plot to figure it out, which will include figuring out the fantastical, you won't actually be able to strip it all away because it is more complex than shit the narrator made up; doing this will help you see that. When it comes to postmodernism and its descendants, narrator will often be more nuanced and complex than reliable vs unreliable and be used for more than narration.I don't think I implied the narrator was being lazy? like Hal, he is having a crisis, dealing with things more important and that has repercussions on performance. It sounds like you might be confusing author and narrator? they are not the same and this is especially true with postmodernist and its descendants. Wallace digs into this in TPK, directly confronts the lines between author, narrator and character and does a great job with it. Sure, this supports your view, question is that will your view help you understand the novel as more than just vague banalities about addiction being bad? That is all that really matters. Run with it. If you respond more fully to my posts instead of singling out points, things will get more interesting and productive even if you are unsure and have to reach, try and reconcile it with your views. Isolated points offer me no insight or challenge and you can see my interest fading with each post yesterday, I don't need /lit/ to expound my literary views, I come here in hopes of a return and anyone willing to try can offer me that return. I would rather run with and explore your ideas than reiterate my own, far more interesting and my posts are ultimately about trying to get enough out of you so I can do that. >>25060796I mostly see people saying they can discuss literature but they never contribute to any discussion I can see. >>25060804If you think you can understand what is fundemental and what is contradiction so early on into a 1100 page book, literature is probably not for you.
>>25056755I would argue it's a challenging book.Few people finish it and even fewer actually understand it.
>>25060918>blatant contradictions of fact aren't real bro
>>25060945Contradiction is both a literary and a rhetorical device.
>>25060804What character description?
>>25060781I find it ironic too, how it’s the “coldest” episode of the book in a literary sense, what with the catechisms and the underlying melancholic implication that perhaps Bloom and Stephen were never really compatible, if only in the sense of the father/son relationship they were subconsciously searching for, it still has the most evocative and impeccably written passages in the whole book I believe.
What about a book called Infinite Chest and it's about a bitch with big ass titties?
>>25060979It depends, what would the page count be? And who’s the author?
>>25060918I guess I just don't get what you mean by "main plot", as if it's something different than the plot as it's normally understood. Again, themes and thematic patterning and plot are different things. I don't think I am confusing author and narrator, I'm just not sold on the idea that the narrator is a character itself and not just a way to convey information by the author. Is there any evidence we're supposed to treat the narrator as separate? Especially when we get Hal specifically changing from 3rd to 1st person perspective in which he becomes the narrator? Hal lying around doesn't give the narrator "little to go on", it totally shifts to his narration. And all narration in the book seems to be centralized on one character's perspective even if it's written in 3rd person. I feel like I already understand it on a level deeper than "addiction bad".
I'm about 250 pages in, and I know events are presented out of order, but does Hal have a kind of temporary involuntary muteness that comes and goes? The first chapter, which is late in the timeline, seems to indicate this (he has a perfect internal monologue of what he wants to be saying, but no one can hear him), and he has events like when his dad pretends to be a professional conversationalist when he was a kid to get him to talk, but then at the academy he seems to talk fine and even had his own group of younger followers that he teaches. Is this explained? There was a reference to eating a big chunk of mold, but that was presented as having happened as a child, so why does the muteness come and go? Does this get explained?
>>25061022Keep reading
>>25061100K
>>25056762>Got filtered by WallaceNgmi
What do you think the odds are that we'll ever get the full 1700 pages original manuscript of "A Failed Entertainment" as Wallace originally intended
>>25060995The primary plot is the one that structures the novel, provides forward movement and carries theme, this is the generic cookie cutter plot that we see resolved most completely in Gately and every character provides their own instance of. Secondary plot is not really a plot, those three plots that are meant to converge but never develop past setup, their/its contribution to structure, forward movement and theme is superficial and why plotfags see theme as some vague thing about addiction. Every character provides a complete instance of that generic plot and fully develops theme, considerable more complex than thematic patterning but the stage of the generic plot they inhabit in the novel could be viewed as thematic patterning providing more depth for that stage of the plot. Wallace provides us everything we need to fill in the parts of the plot we don't get for all of the characters; LaMont Chu is most likely going to follow Wayne's path or become a protector combined with all that stuff we get about what life is like for students after ETA for the driven, fill in the holes in LaMont Chu's plot and develops theme in context of LaMont Chu. We can do this for every character, there is often a few paths we can follow for a character but you can just pick one, with 100+ characters we will get plenty of depth but you can explore all possible paths if you want to. I don't think I said the narrator had little to go on with Hal at the end and if I did there was more context that I provided, I gave an example of the narrator doing well with very little to go on. I gave examples of things which evolve in obviously intentional ways as the novel progresses, all you had to say about them was you thought that was just a sign of Wallace running out of steam as he wrote the novel, which is ridiculous. How am I supposed to respond when you don't address what was said? I have nothing to go on to improve my response, am I supposed to go through the entire novel with you with meticulously detailing this? You got to offer me something, make an attempt to comprehend what I am saying even if you disagree with it so I can see where the failure is. >>25061681Probably never, it does not sound very good. From what I was told by someone who spent time in his archives, the main story was pretty much just the parts with Hal and Gately in it, everything else was in the endnotes. The 1700 page draft also has good margins and is double spaced, so final product is possibly longer. He cut ~500 double spaced pages from it but he developed other parts more to make things work with the 500 page cut and new structure. But who knows, it may get released someday.
>>25056755This book has always been popular with normies
>>25062659I think what he might be getting thrown off with on the plot stuff is that Gately’s plot is not just the events in the story but Gately’s entire life? Not completely sure I agree with you on this but it is a better explanation than any I have seen, something just feels off about it. I will keep it in mind if I ever reread it.
>>25056775they are called pick-me's and pretend to be into games and anime in order to attract men to donate to their twitch channel and onlyfans.
>>25056755It's a hilarious book, not a difficult read just a long one.
>>25056755It's literally midway between the two.Also it was always popular among performative males, there are memes from 2011 on the topic. What I really hate about the internet is how every year it gets flooded by new young users who have to re-learn everything from the beginning and are extremely loud and uninformed in all of their opinions. Sometimes I think the young are a completely different tribe, and that their stupidity is engineered for evolution so that they try something different from their predecessors, which is good. On the other hand, it is extremely disheartening as an adult to see someone going through your exact same experiences while failing to listen each and every advice that would set him on a different path.
>>25056755Harder than Murakami, easier than Joyce, a better read than both.
>>25063585I could be wrong but it works across 100+ characters so I think it is safe to say it is not an accident and there was intent, so I think if I am wrong it is in putting it all together, I could be still missing some pieces. You might be right about that anon, but I really have no clue, he just keep saying the same thing and never addresses what I said, makes it difficult to communicate.
>>25064154>a better read than bothI disrespectfully disagree.
>>25056762Based.
>>25056762This anon was filtered by the shit-eating scene in Gravity's Rainbow.
>>25056755ESL but I tried reading this and gave up because it was boring nonsense. most complicated book I managed to finish was the severian books I forget what their called
>literally
>>25066496>boring nonsenseAhh so you're a retard and a pseud kek
I will come to this post later to effort post, and so for now I will give it a hollow bump. You're not dying yet, friend.
>>25067919I eagerly await it, that’s why I’m also bumping, well it’s mainly because I like this thread.
>>25066782Its important that LLMs dont infect the masses with trashy stream of consciousness
>>25066472pynchon is not a prose stylist
I don't think any book has tried my patience as much as 1Q84 did, I found it excruciatingly difficult to finish and wish I didn't. IJ and and Ulysses were far easier to read.
>>25056755I don't know. I am proud to say I never touched Infinite Jest. Whatever it's about simply does not interest me.
>>25056755I've never read Murakami, but in comparison to the bit of Joyce I have read (Dubliners/Finnegans Wake/Ulysses mainly, didn't finish any of those) Wallace is much easier imo. The footnotes do help to explain the plot & what's going on, shouldn't be difficult aside from looking up esoteric vocab words. For reference, I finished IJ from end of senior year of hs - first semester of uni.
>>25069143>The footnotes do help to explain the plotlol.
>>25056755Does anyone actually use those little sticky flag things? I don't know if I've ever read something that I felt needed them.
>>25069448Most everyone getting a lit degree will use them or something which serves the same purpose. You are probably a bit on the retard side of the fence if you can't see the utility of such things, functionally literate at best.
>>25056892 Ulysses is not structured around Homer. That’s something Joyce said after completing it and realizing that it has the vague outline of “man goes on a journey while woman back at home stays and attempts to resist temptation.” Ulysses wasn’t actually written as a modern adaptation of Homer. That’s all a big fraud.
>>25069531Ah, so it's for pseuds, that makes a lot of sense then.
>>25069541Even if I believed you, I didn't say it was structured after Homer, I said there were structural parallels.
>>25069549>admits to being functionally literate kek.
>>25069553es, Vladimir Nabokov believed that while James Joyce used Homeric parallels, Ulysses was not designed to strictly follow or rely upon The Odyssey. In his lectures on literature at Cornell, Nabokov dismissed the Homeric scheme as "pretentious nonsense" and argued that looking for detailed, sustained, one-to-one parallels between Ulysses and The Odyssey was a waste of time. Key Aspects of Nabokov's View on Ulysses and Homer:Rejection of Allegory: Nabokov considered sustained allegory "tedious" and argued that Ulysses should be appreciated on its own merits rather than as a "modern retelling"."Vague" Parallels: Nabokov acknowledged a "very vague and very general Homeric echo of the theme of wanderings," but argued that the structure of the novel is not dictated by the epic, but rather by the "natural demands of the situation".Focus on Structure and Details: Instead of the Homeric chapter titles ("Cyclops," "Calypso," etc.), Nabokov instructed his students to focus on the concrete details: the specific, minute-by-minute movements of Leopold Bloom and Stephen Dedalus across a map of Dublin.A "Whim": Nabokov believed the mythological framework was an after-thought. In a 1937 conversation with Joyce, when Nabokov pointed out the use of Homer, Joyce reportedly dismissed it as a "whim" and a "terrible mistake" that acted as an "advertisement for the book". Nabokov argued that the true brilliance of the book was its "splendid and permanent structure" of "ordinary" life, not the mythological underpinning
>>25069553“Man goes on journey while woman stays at home and a suitor tempts her.”This is the ONLY actual relation between Joyce and Homer and if you believe there is anything beyond this plot outline connecting the two works you area pseud and are wrong
>>25069541All of Joyce's schemata for Ulysses are structured around the odyssey
>>25069739>a cyclops throws a rock at odysseus>in the Cyclops chapter, the Citizen throws a biscuit box at Bloom>total coincidence, you guysyou will never be smart and you will never win arguments online
>>25069721So you admit there are structural parallels. >Nabokov argued that the true brilliance of the book was its "splendid and permanent structure" of "ordinary" life, not the mythological underpinningI agree. I never said or suggested anything to the contrary.
>>25069541Have you read it? The allusions to Homer are embedded into everything, take something like in Lestrygonians, Bloom walking into a restaurant and being disgusted by the people chowing down on meat so he gets a cheese sandwich instead, echoes the cannibalistic Lestrygonians attacking Odysseus before he’s able to escape their domain.
>autists who do not know what structure is, argue about structure
>>25056762>In the trash. With all American prose stylists.Are you really saying "Wardine be thinks her mother dont treat her good and sheet" isn't good prose?
you would argue but you can't kek
>lotta words>good bookIt's that simple
>>25069988James Joyce created two primary schemata (the 1920 Linati and 1921 Gilbert schemas) to map the 18 episodes of Ulysses onto Homer's Odyssey, structuring his single-day Dublin narrative (June 16, 1904) around a specific time, organ, art, color, symbol, and technique for each chapter.Components of the SchemaEach chapter in Joyce's, particularly the Gilbert schema, includes:Homeric Parallel: The specific character or event from The Odyssey.Time: Specific hour in Dublin, 1904.Organ: A part of the human body associated with the chapter.Art/Science: A discipline (e.g., Theology, Philology, Painting).Symbol: A key object or theme (e.g., The Nymph, The Citizen).Technic: The narrative style (e.g., Narration, Monologue, Hallucination).
>>25056755Can’t answer anything re Infinite Jest (which by its title is obviously a big fucking joke). DFWs essay ‘Authority and American Usage’ that is so worthwhile to read that it ought to be required reading for newfags. One of the best defenses of proper usage outside a legal setting i’m familiar with
>>25070535That is not structure.
>>25070378do you enjoy reading medical textbooks, perchance?
>>25060995I don’t agree with the narrator as a separate character thing but there are a couple footnotes which indicate the ‘narrator’ is something with input on the story beyond narration.Off the top of my head, thinking of the footnotes in the eschaton chapter, and a later footnote which just says “no clue”.Not sure what to make of it. Hal being the sole narrator is kinda interesting, but you’d have to take for granted that he’s making a decent amount of shit up or going off DG’s/PGOAT’s descriptions.
>>25071025This is cope
>>25071663Nta but it is no more structure than a pile of building materials is a house. For it to be structure you have to show how they relate and work towards the whole.
>>25071708>map all your characters and episodes of your novel to a different work>that's not structuring based on another work!
>>25071763To continue the other anon's analogy, you can draw a good many parallels between a house and a pile of construction materials but that won't make your pile into a house, it is still just a pile of construction materials.
>>25071800But only a retard would say that a house has nothing to do with construction materials
Can someone please tell me why they think Kate Gompert is still alive. I understand the test subjects need to be sober, but if that's the case then why the fuck is Marathe plying her to come along?
>>25071806What? Are you drunk or stupid or something?
>>25071575>Hal being the sole narrator is kinda interestingI don't think it fits. Just one quick example, the first person POV that introduces us to Lyle refers to the Incandenzas not as Hal would but as a junior ETAer would. It's reasonable to assume it's one of the juniors, but it's certainly not Hal. Personally, I think narratorial duties are more or less of a rotating confessional, or cuck chair, and everyone, or at least many characters, takes a seat at some point. It's sort of a fun guessing game to wonder who's conveying the current information to you, or, like, maybe more importantly, why it would be important that a certain character is communicating a thing to you. The narrator freely and without italics or a wink or a nudge takes on linguistic quirks of certain characters, like Lenz's malapropisms and precise military time and north-facing anal-ness being baked into sections of the narrative, for a attentive reader to pick up on and think about. For fun: consider the use of the word nigger in the novel and then the endnote about how that's the only way Don knows how to refer to black people (unfortunately). I think the use of the word, nigger, throughout the novel sort is a reflection of that. It also is more than likely applicable to other Boston street toughs, so I also don't think that's a 1:1 that Gately could be the sole narrator, that doesn't fit for me.
>>25070781I read it and it seems to me that DFW is far more in the descriptavist camp than he wants to admit for some odd reason. Believing that there is social utility to certain dialects like Standard Written English is perfectly compatible with the descriptavist belief that there's no objective superiority to it linguistically. As is believing that there is information communicated by the choice of dialect usage and that self-interested individuals can use this to their benefit. Still, interesting article none the less, political datedness aside.
>>25071575Hal as narrator kind of works nicely, everything involving Infinite Jest V/VI and the Wraith becomes made up, the fantasy that plays in his head, that he is important and matters in this world, that himself cared and does not even let death stop him from caring. What doesn't work for me is that the narrators voice is nothing like Hal is incapable of seeing beyond himself. The narrator's decline does closely follow Hal's, which is tantalizing but the narrator being so different from Hal makes it not work for me. The endnotes are another place we see the narrator's decline, at the start they are very informative but as the novel wears on they become increasingly useless.>>25071858The multiple narrator view never worked for me, narrator has a well defined voice. The narrator taking on quirks of the characters is free indirect speech and well within the voice of the narrator. Who has ever made Gately out to be the narrator? never seen anyone suggest that.
Can someone comment on JOI's cuckoldry. Is he knowingly a cuck? Or is it just that he drinks so much that he's oblivious, artistically oblivious in ironic ways, if he isn't a literal cuck. I am not sure what would make him an actual cuck. The ETA kids think he is, at least Pemulis does. With JOI we know he has the weird one-less-boner-in-the-world phobia (I guess allegedly? not sure if this is ever 'confessedly', but I believe it), so I would find it weird that he was okay with men banging Avril. We also know that JOI is basically constantly cartoonishly drunk when he's not in recovery twice? three times? Like, does he invite Huge G. Rection on to a movie set knowing he want him to plow Avril, or is it a case of an auteur seeing a subject for a movie before considering the ramifications. I guess I just want to know what you guys think. Was he a literal cuck, or was he being cheated on sub rosa and all the JOI movies are just sort of his fears and phobias emerging. It's like 2 things egg and chicken situation with Hugh G Rection and JOI films, and does JOI know/want to invite that situation, or is he so cartoonishly drunk that the situation is dramatic ironyDo you guys think that deep down Avril wanted a healthy relationship with JOI and would have not been a total whore had he been able to be a normal guy?I do not care that I am asking the wrong questions
>>25071855You're retarded
>With JOI we know he has the weird one-less-boner-in-the-world phobia (I guess allegedly? not sure if this is ever 'confessedly', but I believe it)how do we know that?
>>25072124Original anon here, neither of those anons said a house has nothing to do with construction materials, just that a pile of construction materials is not a house or a structure, it is just a pile of building materials. >>25070535 only offered a pile of construction materials.
>>25072132You're retarded
>>25056775Yes but that's all of them so we just call them females
>>25072124>>25072200Concession accepted
>>25071800You guys seem to be minimizing the importance of him modeling the plot, characters, and themes of Ulysses off of the Odyssey. Raw building materials is a false analogy; a more accurate one would be that Homer provided the blueprint to the house while Joyce was in charge of the interior design.
Haven't read it, but isn't it way way more of a child of Pynchon than Joyce?why the fuck would you reach for a modernist novel to discuss an obviously postmodern one anyway.p.s. if anybody has recommendations of books actually in the modernist style outside the big 3 names, I'd like to here them.
>>25072339How does pointing out that you don't know what structure is, minimize anything Joyce did? All the things you list are a part of one element of the structure, the reference.>>25072371IJ and Ulysses are about the same distance from postmodernism, just on opposite sides of postmodernism. How do you know a book you never read is obviously postmodern?No idea who you consider the three big ones of modernism to be, but; The Making of Americans, The Ambassadors, The USA Trilogy, The Rainbow, The Sheltering Sky, and The Notebooks of Malte Laurids Brigge, are all lesser talked about modernist works but very important and very good. If The Making of Americans intimidates you then Three Lives will do just as well and in some ways it is Stein's more important work.
>>25072371DFW read Pynchon extensively but pretended he didn't, for some stupid reason. I guess to try and pretend his ideas and styles are more his own. DFW fanbois hate it when you even compare him to Pynchon.
>>25072927Stop dishonestly coping. It's unbecoming of (presumably) an adult male
>>25072936All he said is that he didn't read Lot49 until after Broom of the System and that he didn't see the influence others saw. Stylistically, Broom of the System is mostly a naive impersonation of Barth and that is not only fairly obvious to anyone who has read much Barth but also something he admitted to. Theme was a thinly veiled version of his philosophy dissertation and has no connection to Pynchon or fiction in general. IJ and later works show far more Gaddis influence when it comes to style, he even included a very blatant homage to Gaddis in IJ. Most of the Gaddis influence comes from a couple dozen stylistically unique pages in The Recognitions that are quite different from the rest of the novel; Mr. Privner's introduction, that weird chapter where Gaddis could not rely on dialogue because Mr. Privner is alone and he had to get creative with the narration to do what he normally does with dialogue. Theme for IJ could be seen as a reaction to TR and GR, saying that what they got wrong is taking a societal view and removing the individual but that requires developing theme beyond what TR and GR offer so we can't really say he just ripped them off, it is influence and he never denied his influences even when they were naive and embarrassing impersonations.
>>25072972Concession accepted
>>25073042Stop pretending to be me and trying to instigate retard.
>>25073040>Most of the Gaddis influence comes from a couple dozen stylistically unique pages in The Recognitions that are quite different from the rest of the novel; Mr. Privner's introduction, that weird chapter where Gaddis could not rely on dialogue because Mr. Privner is alone and he had to get creative with the narration to do what he normally does with dialogue.Could you go into more detail on this?
>I still concedeI still accept.
>>25073042>>25073118>I accept your concession
>I'm right [no argument given]>No you're not because [actual arguments]>Yes I am you're just stupid>Cope>I win!Are Joyceredditors really like this?
>>25073115Are you more interested in how that chapter is unique in TR or how it influenced Wallace? I will cover both but having some sort of grounding for context will be helpful. It will be a good while before I respond, heading out for the night, might not be until tomorrow. If the thread dies (unlikely) I will respond in the Gaddis thread or one of the other DFW threads of which I am sure there will be at least one.
>>25073196First day on the internet?
>>25056762Kek
>>25073127concession accepting is a 4chan passtime you larping diaper
>still concedes
>>25073268im interested in both tbqh
>>25073621By invading plebbitors sure
>>25064219Not enough cuckoldry in it for you?
>>25072927Are you retarded? No one said that Joyce copied the odyssey 1:1, you seem to be struggling with what influence means. A lot of episodes in Ulysses take major pointers from the odyssey for its structure. Not everything needs to be 1:1 for us to acknowledge this. If Homer's Odyssey did not exist, Joyce’s Ulysses would be written in a vastly different manner. That's all that needs to be said.
>>25073040Maybe pynchon is also just a barth and gaddis imitator
>>25056877Wardine be cry
>>25058123>Would pynchon be difficult if he actually bothered to contextualize all the hundreds of his transitional scenes and wrote something beyond cheap allegories?He did
>>25073810>been there done that!--pynchie
>>25074482And many people (especially young, ignorant people) maintain that descriptivism (really, anti-prescriptivism) is somehow preferable to prescriptivism (but I find this is hypocritical and ironically prescriptivist). Typically people push this view on reddit when someone calls them out for using “literally” when they should’ve used “figuratively.” It’s most often cope by sloppy users of language as most people are aware there are (in nearly all endeavours) more clear, more forceful and more excellent ways to communicate with english.
>>25072108I think he tries to flout the dichotomy. It’s not that he’s a descriptivist, he recognizes that there is no objective superiority to any language dialect, but also realizes that’s at tension with his point (which I think is indisputable) that the primary purpose of written language is communication, and that prescriptivist pretensions regarding style, grammar, and syntax are essential to preserve the communicability and clarity of language.The dichotomy is ridiculous for most people to even bother with, I think it’s best illustrated by DFW’s statement about nobody would ever recommend a “descriptivst” ethics textbook.There is no objective superiority to any particular bridge design, yet we need to cross water, and certainly anyone would concede that there are better and worse designs for a bridge if the goal is crossing water.
>>25058342Right? Bro is getting angry that people don't find IJ AS difficult as other modernist doorstoppers. He wants people to recognize his favorite big book as impressively difficult, but when people hold fast that it simply isn't as difficult as Joyce or Pynchon, it's suddenly "difficulty isn't the point"Well why were you getting mad that people said it wasn't that difficult in the first place then, bro?I hate idiots like this. They turn everything into a pissing contest in a desperate bid to be the smartest in the room.
>>25069997I'm not american, I thought this was fiction (heh)? People are actually writing books saying "shanequa be thunking her mama don't be treating her good and shiet" and other people are actually buying them?
Bonjour, je suis ici pour discuter de littérature. Quand je parle de littérature, je ne peux pas vraiment parler de livres, donc je préfère parler de jeux vidéo comme Disco Elysium, Baldur’s Gate ou Call of Duty. Quelles sont vos œuvres de littérature préférées (jeux vidéo) ?
>>25056755>nowwheres the pasta?
>>25074525Should have stayed in /v/, newfag>retard still thinks anyone cares about difficulty LOL
>>25074525>They turn everything into a pissing contest in a desperate bid to be the smartest in the room.Said the dimwit /v/ tourist. Your entire schtick in the thread has been "it isn't as le hard as other books i le read". Whether you read 1 or you read 3, you're still clinically retarded
>>25074533Yes
>>25074533I'm sure there's some. I'm just making fun of Wallace's one terrible ebonics chapter in IJThat's a good movie, btw.
>>25074567Weeks later and you're still mad that we answered OP's question? I've read 10 books so far this year, you're still stuck talking about the only and easiest book you've read in the meme trilogy (I've read all three, IJ was the easiest). Keep on with your /v/ shit, retard. I'll be reading something else besides your dumbass posts.
>>25075148It's so hilarious that these people are so upset that gamers like us find IJ easy. Like, what the fuck dude, we played Elder Scrolls, of course we find shit like this easy.
>>25074522I think you're right, from that perspective it makes more sense
>>25075682can you stop bumping this thread by agreeing with urself?
>>25075148>>25075162>/v/irgin retard starts throwing a tantrum because I raped his ass hardLol. Visual novels are not books, retard. You've been seething since the day I called your retarded ass out on your insecurity. You're so dimwitted lmao. Still hiding behind "le i answered the question" semantics when his tiny pecker was taking pride in some books he could name thst were harder than IJ. Your mama should have aborted you.
>>25075779No because I didn't do that
>>25075850go back to /v/
>>25075853that's a different convo in this thread
>>25075858shut up and go back to /v/ already
>>25075858back to /v/ with you, enjoy your japanime cartoons
>>25075858why are you still here? /v/ is that way -->
>>25075858do you need a link or something? here you go4chan.org/v/
>>25075858hey /v/agrant, get back to /v/
>>25075858your mother is calling, she wants you to come back to /v/
>>25075858/v/icious you hit me with a flower, you do it every hour, oh baby you're so /v/icious
>>25075858e/v/erybody is identical in their secret unspoken belief that way deep down they are different from e/v/eryone else
>>25075858it's weird to feel like you miss someone you're not e/v/en sure you know
>>25075858it did what all ads are supposed to do: create an anxiety relie/v/able by purchase
>>25075858nobody can do that /v/oodoo that you do
>>25075858no single, indi/v/idual moment is in and of itself unendurable
>>25075858we are all dying to give our li/v/es away to something
>>25075858almost nothing important that e/v/er happens to you happens because you engineer it
>>25075858/v/oulez-/v/ous couchez a/v/ec moi, ce soir?
>>25075858/v/ideo killed the radio star
>>25075858why don't you come on o/v/er, /v/alerie
>>25075858she's li/v/in' la /v/ida loca
>>25075858and a young man sailed on a ship in the sea with a picture of /v/eronica
>>25075850>>25075853Any fag who said go back to /v/ is a monkey nigger. I was just trying to talk about DFW and usage how about YOU orangutans go back to /b/ with your reddit tier lyric chains>>25075859>>25075860>>25075862
>>25075858croquet lawns, village greens /v/ictoria was my queen
>>25075908oooooOooOo someone is getting cranky. don't worry, baby, you're always welcome at /v/
>>25075908oh my god we're back again, brothers sisters e/v/erybody sing
>>25075908tonight we are /v/ictorious champagne pouring over us all my friends were glorious tonight we are /v/ictorious
>>25075908come on, /v/ogue let your body move to the music
>>25075908you know together we're glowin'gonna be, gonna be goldenoh, up, up, up with our /v/oices
>>25075921>>25075923you missed some /v/s
>>25075930that's ok, i have plenty to spare/v/v/v/v/v/v/v/v/v/v/v/v/v/v/v/v/v/v/v/v/
>>25075933can I get some of those /v/s?
>>25075938first one is free:/v/
>>25075908whoa, we're half way therewhoa oh, li/v/in' on a prayer
>>25075908sometimes you wanna gowhere e/v/erybody knows your name
>>25075908she's got it yeah, baby, she's got it well, i'm your /v/enus i'm your fire, at your desire
>>25075942>>25075945>>25075947Is this the performative lit bro i’ve been hearing about? Keep this performance going!!!!!!!!!
>>25075959anything to get this stupid fucking thread to 310 so it can die, /v/irgin
Wait so who exactly embarrassed themselves so thoroughly itt that they feel the need to bump it to archive and hide his shame from everyone?
Imagine bookhopping in stead of authormaxxing. DFW should be BotS -> IJ -> TPK and if you start with IJ you are kneecapping your experience without knowing it. No wonder /lit/ is packed to the brim like a tin'o'dines with pseuds desu baka. For shame.
>>25075898Anon's spergout was not meant to deliver on every attempt to everyone's eyes. 9 times out of 10 it made me cri(ng)e. But this I laffed. A good hearty chuckle.
>>25056762spbp
