I'm trying to understand leftism, not from the perspective of an intellectual, but from the perspective of the average uneducated, or maybe BA-educated person who buys into the appeals and thinks using a consensus filter.
Amazing Spider-Man
>>25484094So you want to understand an ideology but only from the perspective of someone who doesn't understand it? Just keep browsing social media sites like 4chan, you may or may not get leftism but you will get the thoughts of people who don't understand their own purported ideologies
Read Ayn Rand but somehow make John Galt the bad guy, then you have the perspective of every leftist.
>>25484111I think what I want to understand is their psychology, character, and motives. For example, there's a type of leftist that I could give you a clearer picture of because I understand it better: was a hippie or has hippie parents, interested in high-brow art, but only the aesthetic superficialities of it. Reads Kesey or Vonnegut. He's longhoused by a chick on birth control.So I am trying to understand other types of leftists in this same way. This kind of guy is easier to pinpoint because he goes with the flow. He doesn't have much of a neurotic or capricious personality.
youtube comment sections. youre welcome.
>>25484166>I want to understand is their psychologyhere you go
>>25484094Children of the Matrix by David Icke. You are welcome.
>>25484166Now it feels like you're talking about a specific person whom I'm not familiar with.
>>25484094>leftismis a mental disorder so
>>25484259and they are getting violent
>leftismfirst i need to know what you mean by this term. this term gets thrown around like a bogus multivitamin. ask 10 /pol/acks and you get 12 different answers. it seems to always be vague, vibes-based shit with you guys, no offense.
>>25484259>>25484261>i have never had sex
>>25484208lol>>25484250I vaguely am but there are many people like this>>25484259Saved>>25484279For a rough definition I would say that popular leftism, in its current state, is the collection of agendas which occult / anti-Christian elites have been delivering through PACs, universities, NGOs, media, Hollywood, advertising, etc. It's more than political campaigns. They understand that the masses imbibe morality and structure from fiction and media, and this is probably their most effective tool.
>>25484094It's very simple. You can read any book that looks interesting to you. When you've read so many books that you can read a republican with a glance, all you have to do is not do that. Just don't read a republican and just experience them.
>>25484322>collection of agendas which occult / anti-Christian elites have been delivering through PACs, universities, NGOs, media, Hollywood, advertising, etc.this is still just vague shit. its like if i said "leftism is like, umm, stuff that is evil and stuff..." give me something concrete. i know you are itching to reply with your favorite meme of the month "leftism is when they deliberately misunderstand you" but the shit youre saying is so vague and nonsensical.
>>25484301that is a shame have you tried dancing?
>>25484094>>25484322>uhhhhh any1 have bookz on uhhhh leftism from uhhh the sheeple perspective>leftism is when uhhhh they say, uhhh bad things, like when the TV says bad things you know, uhhhh yeah like they say worship satan and stuff, that's leftismAnons, he's being retarded on purpose. He's writing like a retard on purpose. This is a left-wing psyop to make us look stupid. DO NOT ENGAGE
>>25484365>not even once, like literally never
>>25484094Ask your grandma she may have a copy. It was called the Phone Book.
>>25484356>>25484411Leftism is slave morality based ethics with its key points of contention being promoting the destruction of the traditional west through things such as mass immigration from the third world, promoting degeneracy of all forms with the main one being lgbtq+, and hating White people. Really though modern leftism in its entirety can be summarized as “the party of slave morality” and that would be an accurate concrete answer for you.
>>25484112>ayn rand>leftistaverage American braincel
>>25484631for average westoid voting for Obama and importing slave labor is leftism.
>>25484208David Icke isn't left or right, he's too based for that.
>>25484631>Leftism is slave morality based ethics leftism in its best forms is the master morality of a collective subject acting on the stage of world history, not the deformed master morality of an individual acting within the bounds of the economy. the will to do away with capitalism is the will to power, it is the desire to create values that don't derive from the market, it is the desire to understand and wield a collective force that right now is perversely opposed to the individuals that constitute it. doing away with drudgery and alienation is sought for not in the name of pity and cowardice but out of love of life and strength, love of all the human possibilities that are suffocated by constant competition for the sake of expanding capital. conviviality is an active and aristocratic virtue. but from your post you seem extremely brainwashed and enslaved so i suppose all this will go over your head. i don't think you ever known what it means to actively create your own values. i think all you've ever known is passive submission to the values of the market and of the parodic apparatus of hollowed-out tradition that the market finds useful to keep around.
>>25484094It’s better to look at different issues and survey the opinions of each party on that specific area and compare them and make out your own position. That’s the best way to approach politics.
>>25484631>holy buzzword larpjesus christ i remember being a 16 year old /pol/ack nietszcheteen as well back in 2015. you'll grow out of this, anon. good luck onwards though.
>>25484713reading comprehension dude try it
>>25484356Maybe he cannot give a cogent outline of what leftists believe because he does not understand them, which he admits in the OP. I cannot easily define the line between art and obscenity, but I can intuitively discern between them. So too with defining leftism.
>>25486119maybe because what he is describing isnt leftism. that was my entire point. he is just describing vague traits that are present in a myriad of people across all political lines and economic systems. nothing that he is talking about is exclusive to marxism-leninism, anarcho syndicalism or whatever the fuck. its just the same vague /pol/ack whining about gay californian petit bourgeois bullshit. to simply say "leftism" is completely non-descript and inaccurate because these traits can and are very much present in plenty of ardent capitalists as well.
>>25484631You have to be 18 to post here.
>>25484094>I'm trying to understand leftism, not from the perspective of an intellectual, but from the perspective of the average uneducated, or maybe BA-educated person who buys into the appeals and thinks using a consensus filter.Scroll through "BookTok recommendations and reviews" on TikTok.
>>25484631>>25484094>>25484322Do you hear yourself when you talk, or is there just a vague buzzing noise localized somewhere below your nose?
>>25484770good post but what you wrote seems like a complete 180 from what the majority of "leftists" espouse or act on.
>>25486215>>25486219>>25486087>no rebuttalSaying leftism is the party of slave morality is poignant. That isn’t a buzzword, it hits right at the heart of what modern leftism boils down to. You asked for a concrete definition, there it is. This anon >>25486425 is right. Trying to say that modern leftism is in any way a departure from being party of slave morality is incorrect and ignores what basically every modern leftist talking point is predicated on. I have nailed down the entire movement in once simple definition and all you retards have been able to do in response is fling shit. Cope.
>>25486462>the party of slave moralitythis is more vague nietszcheteen nonsense. i could simply say the same shit about anything. "rightism is the party of slave morality" and you would rightfully point out that im not actually making any fucking arguments about anything. point to something concrete. explain what you mean by "slave morality" and why its supposedly bad for a change.
>>25486462lmfao>Saying leftism is the party of slave morality is poignant.>poignantthis means "it is deeply emotionally moving, evoking sharp feelings of sadness, pity, regret, or the like, to say that leftism is the party of slave morality." it carries strong undertones of fondness, former happiness, love gone astray, that sort of thing, which isn't what you meant to invoke >inb4 that's what I intendedyou and I both know this isn't true>Saying leftism is the party of slave morality is poignant.>the party ofleftism isn't a "a party." the Democratic Socialists are a party. the Greens are a party. the Liberal Democrats are a party. the Communist Party is a party. etc, etc. all of these political parties sharply disagree with each other on fundamental issues and share little in common other than opposition to the far right>inb4 that's what I intendedyou and I both know this isn't true>inb4 you're nitpicking and these things don't matter because why should I take you seriously when you make retarded unforced errors like this?>because you have to take me seriously okay! YOU HAVE TO OKAY!you should stop using words and concepts you don't really understand. it makes you sound exactly like what you're trying to avoid sounding like -- a teenager, who thinks he's smarter than he actually is, who's lying about his age so he can post on 4chan>Cope.>>25486219 is right, you don't hear yourself at all lol
God I love it when this kind of thing happens on the board. Ever since the great post covid decline this sort of pure concentrated pseuddery has been rarer and rarer. We're not dead yet
>>25486481>>inb4 you're nitpicking and these things don't matter becauseI like how you have to preemptively set up defenses like this because you still can’t address the point, all you can do is dance around it and split hairs because I’m right. You know exactly what I mean when I say leftism is the party of slave morality. You have no actual rebuttal to this, so have to resort to attacking my rhetoric instead. You can’t tear down the actual idea from any angle.
>>25486479>muh vague, muh I don’t get itWhy are you on a literature board if you have no capacity to understand the overarching point of a statement? How did you solve the captcha?
>>25486498>YOU HAVE TO TAKE ME SERIOUSLY!no, I don't
>>25486505>still no rebuttal I accept your concession.
>>25486511please stop talking like the most based sophomore in the school waiting on the 3:30pm bus on the wire picnic benches by the track
>>25486512You’re embarrassing yourself anon. I’ll let you have the last word if that’s what you want, go ahead. I’ll bet anything you still won’t address my point. When I see your next response that still doesn’t address it, I’ll take that as my official win.
>>25486514get to bed, you want a strong start for the new school year
>>25484094What you're seeking is hard to depict because it is hard to depict a lack of complexity or introspection without accidentally implying the absence of thought is actually intentional space to assume deeper, unsaid thought. Also because you're engaging with some bizarre strawman and working from inherent assumptions of bad-faith or stupidity in these liberals.The closest recommendation I can think of are the characters in Tulathimutte's Private Citizens, which captures the west coast neoliberal millennial zeitgeist well enough. But this is a bait politics thread so idk why I'm even replying seriously.
>>25486502why are you if you cant coherently lay out your problems rather than create a vague strawman umbrella like "leftism" which you have yet to define in any meaningful way. you havent discussed economics to an even remote degree. you just say retarded /pol/ shit like "its evil and epstein diddy blud shit for degenerates! hail sargon of akkad, my fellow kekistanis!" are you underage? be honest.
>>25486502kek>>25486562interesting, will look into it. thanks anon. yes, i am admittedly biased because all of my opinions are right
>>25484094>consensus filterThis is merely the precedence for mind control and programming. Headlines and articles overtake such minds and you have the birth of slogans. >the averageEven they see some actual principles and characteristics of leftism just as they do with other religions. Often they spot the delusion and laugh at it.
What is leftism?If centralization of power under modern systems (im not blaming capitalism in general, just the modern form of it with fiat money and no implicit or explicit anti trust mechanisms) is not good to me, am I a leftist?
>>25484094Also, The Power of the Powerless by Václav Have is a good book to read about how common people like ourselves can fight back against the left
>>25487362*Václav Havel*Typo
>>25487083I think you're a leftist when you misconstrue reality to come to the conclusion that you arrived at, where the system is out to get you, when in reality you have lived through one of the most prosperous times in human history and had more economic opportunities than any people in history, maybe with the exception of your boomer parents.
>>25487518But this can't be what constitutes leftism because this criticism is easily turned back against the right; the leftist just has to say>nuh uh, YOU'RE misconstruing reality>nuh uh, YOU'RE the one who thinks the system's out to get youand the right has no coherent avenue to this other than to say "No u!!!" louder. This is shoddy reasoning and you'd see it immediately if it was applied to the right
>>25487083
>>25484166Just hang out with a couple. Hell, I'm a regular, working class leftist. If you want to know something about me, feel free to ask.
>>25484259I realized whilst reading through this that I don't care about any of this. While I do think leftists are retarded, I also think you and others here are being contrarians for contrarianism's sake if you dont propose some different way in which society should be ordered which would be better than this one though I'm not saying things are fine as it is, they're not.
>>25487610>if you call yourself a leftist you can get away with embracing non-socialist economic positions [while simultaneously embracing idpol ones] and won't be kicked out of the club by peersThis is called "neoliberalism" and many leftists spend all their time attacking it>you can not get away with not affirming black worship, trannyism, and replacement migrationYou can throw a stone and hit a hundred leftists who will tell you that identity politics in any form is the bourgeoisie's attempt to distract from class struggleThis is a shitter anime poster who only "reads" other shitter posts. They don't know what they're talking about. Try not to mistake shitter posts for thought, okay?
>>25487742Bullfickingshit. The recent Jason Arday mess has shown us all perfectly well what the left still holds sacred and still gets excited about, and it’s not economics. You have been completely and utterly subverted by anti-white race politics and there is no coming back. Your economic positions are secondary to, and exist in service of, your anti-white and anti-western grievance and revenge narratives.
>>25484713the irony
>>25487742Just the latest in lefty gaslighting. Let me guess, you use words like "Woke 1" unironically?
The way leftists keep getting dunked on in this thread only for them to say everyone is wrong reminds me of how communists always default to “that’s not real communism” while being unable to define it themselves, only saying everyone else is wrong in their attacking it.
>>25487518I mean the current system is not out to get me personally but it has severe regulatory issues that makes it hard to compete and to get your foot through the door.This doesn't mean I think homosexuality and transexuality should be legal.
>>25487610So if I want to enforce anti trust laws and de-tax workers and small business but don't agree with homosexuality and transexuality I am not leftist?
>>25487964Leftists want to abolish the value form relationship, so you're right wing.
Where the fuck does this whole "a book can change your life" shit come from? No it can't. No book you ever read is EVER going to "change your life" you greebly little weirdo.
>>25488046that shit makes sense when you're young, i've had books that "changed" me to some degree from 10-18
>>25487753I think Arday was a liar and a scammer who got caught in his lies, and was able to get away with it for so long because people were scared that calling him out would get their careers ruined for "racism" or "discrimination" or "bigotry." I remain a leftist who thinks that racism, discrimination, and bigotry are real, meaningful problems in Western societies. From this we can conclude that leftism is not secondary to buzzwords, even if a lot of leftism contains grievance and revenge narratives. This is a very simple concept to understand; to illustrate the point, lots of Trump supporters think that reading literature is a retarded waste of time. Does this mean that you must think reading literature is a retarded waste of time in order to support Trump, and that if someone thinks literature is not a retarded waste of time, that means they must not be a Trump supporter? Obviously not>>25487809The debate isn't "do leftists frequently talk about trannies and blacks and blah blah," nor is it "if you say you don't want to talk about those things are you or are you not ostracized by leftists," it's "is that ostracization proof you must you talk about those things in order to be a leftist." Different question. There's hardcore Marxists who align with the left who think that anything identity focused is total horseshit. From this we can conclude that the tweet's wrong When leftists use this style of reasoning on you, you immediately see how retarded it is, but when you do it to the left, you really think you've hit upon something essential and constitutive. Stop using reasoning you know is retarded because you're upset and triggered. It's retarded when leftists do it, it's retarded when you do it, it's just retarded
>>25488137Bullshit.
>>25488168>personal incredulityI accept the concessoin
>Why YES, I AM fulll of shitConcession accepted.
>>25488144>Trump supporters think that reading literature is a retarded waste of time. Does this mean that you must think reading literature is a retarded waste of time in order to support TrumpI don’t think that’s even true, that just sounds like something someone who overdosed on agitprop would think was true. Trump and maga don’t hate books, that’s fucking stupid. They hate left wing books. Whereas left wing policies are often hand picked by how much they hurt white people, men, or the nuclear family. It’s how seemingly antithetical world views like radical Islam are permitted and even viciously protected and defended in our supposedly “liberal” societies where they should be universally rejected and despised. As long as it hurts whitey it’s good. It’s why the left went from being strongly opposed to mass immigration to now strongly in favor and even telling their useful idiots to obstruct anti-immigration efforts and use violence against immigration officers, because again, “fuck whitey”. It’s the cornerstone of your ideology at this point and you can and will abandon any and all other beliefs and positions you pretend to have that aren’t “fuck whitey” or get in the way of “fuck whitey”. Meanwhile none of Trumps’ policies are built to stop people from reading books or to make books harder to get (unless they’re gay porn books and you’re a school child).
>>25488271It doesn't have to be true of every Trump supporter in order to work in the context of the point I'm trying to make. It just has to be true of toothless Cletus in Alabama. Even if you wanted to say "it's not true of ANY Trump supporter," you can treat it as a pure hypothetical and the point's the exact same
>>25488419>my ideology has been completely hijacked by idpol phanatics and I admit it, but that’s ok because I don’t personally believe itWow, that’s a neat way to justify supporting a system that you admit only wants to hurt white people above all else, at least to yourself. Doesn’t work for me though because I’m white, I refuse to support my own oppression. What race are you?
>>25488430>phanaticslol>that's ok because I don't personally believe itYes? Not sure why you're acting like this is a wild, insane leap. There are people "on your side" who wholeheartedly believe completely insane things, things you think are obviously idiotic, and those insane things have little bearing on whether or not the right is correct in its essentiality. This is a simple point you're pretending not to understand because you think conceding it means that leftism must be correct. This is a dumb way to think>Doesn't work for me though because I'm whiteI'm white too. Please don't immediately glide from "you're only saying this because you hate whites!" ('you're brown' heavily implied) to "you're only saying that because you hate yourself for being white!" and think that this constitutes a serious, well-reasoned argument Too much hate makes a man retarded, anon. You hate the left so much it's making you retarded. You don't have to think like a retard in order to hate the left, you can hate them without making simple errors like you've been making
>>25488534You keep attempting to just flippantly dismiss the complete and total ideological capture of virtually each and every political party on the modern left by forces that openly seek to destroy you as though those opinions and policies carried as much weight on the left as the pathetic and near universally maligned retards like neo-nazis and kkk members on the right do. It is mind boggling to me that a white person would advocate for leftism after living through the last decade or so. You know that the left is completely controlled by anti-white racists and yet you still wish to give these people power in the hopes that they’re just pretending or something? Also, I’ve been trying to be civil and have a real conversation with you, but if you keep being a cunt I’ll start throwing it right back at you.
>>25488243>strawman Still accepted.
>>25488553>You know that the left is completely controlled by anti-white racists and yet you still wish to give these people power in the hopes that they’re just pretending or something?No? You're conflating several different things here. Is the left controlled in large part by identity-focused activism? Yes, absolutely. Are they all rabid "anti-white racists?" No, I don't think that's accurate at all. Are some of them like that? Yes, for sure. Are they merely "just pretending?" No, if "they" here refers to identity-focused activists. As I said before, when "the left" (really hazy what you mean by this, but let's lay that aside for a moment) criticizes our social order for being bigoted in a variety of ways, I don't think they're wrong. "Society is racist!" I think that's true. "Our culture discriminates against women!" I think that's true. Etc, etc. Does this mean I think the most extreme versions of these positions are true? No, because I think the most extreme versions of these positions are clearly retarded, and I don't feel the need to waste breath justifying them or defending them -- any reasonable person knows that these extremities are retarded>near universally maligned retards like neo-nazis and kkk members on the rightYou're better than this. You immediately see what you're doing when you apply it to yourself; you're saying "it's obvious that when we talk about the right it's useless to only talk about its most extreme examples like the Klan," and if I started talking about how this right-wing political movement has its origins in X horrible group, or about how that right-wing politician frequently takes positions akin to Y horrible group, or about how another right-wing party promulgates Z idea word-for-word from online neo-nazi communities, you'd roll your eyes and dismiss me as someone who doesn't know what they're talking about when they talk about the right. But when you do it to something you hate, you don't notice how retarded this line of thinking is, and you mistake it for a deep hard won insight into the secret true white-hating nature of leftism or something. It's lazy>I've been trying to be civil and have a real conversationYou've extended zero charity to the left this entire time, worked yourself into a rage off of really shoddy argumentation, and you call that civility because you're not currently calling me a faggot or similar. Come on, anon. Very low bar to set for yourself and then congratulate yourself for stepping over. But okay, fine, I'm sorry I kept calling you retarded. Can we settle on a compromise position like "you personally are not retarded but you're saying retarded things"
>>25488665If I was to sit here and pick apart your post line by line the same way you constantly do with mine it would be an admission that I do not value my time, or that my time has no value. Neither of which is true. If you feel the need to spend hours composing longform arguments to defend your disgusting, totalitarian, and openly racist belief structure on 4chan then you are an actual retard, likely of the social variety. You people want socialism? Do you really think with this race and identity obsessed modern left that it’s not going to be race or identity based socialism? You know it will be and so do I. Why do you want that? You just keep repeating yourself like a broken record and you sound like a Jew who supports Nazis to me. I guess you think you’re special and if you vote the right way they won’t put you at the bottom of the social pyramid, although of course they will. As they have been doing and will continue to work towards doing for decades. What do you care about? You’re a white man? Yet you want to hand power over to people who want to disarm you, open your borders and replace you with migration, and rewrite your entire history to make it into a victim narrative? What on earth do you see appealing about this?
>>25488665post hand>>25488767she'll never post hand
>>25488665>>I've been trying to be civil and have a real conversation>You've extended zero charity to the left this entire time,Are you the left? Why would you take that personally?
>>25488785Born a white boy, will die a white boy>>25488789Like I've said a few times, I'm a leftist. More a "don't piss on my face and tell me it's raining" thing>>25488767>pretending not to understand things screenshot again lol>I'm not going to engage anymore actually because uhhhhhh you're wronglol>you... you feel the need to... to argue!You just said you were trying to have a civil exchange and now you've decided you don't want to play anymore, ok>You people want socialism?Yes>race and identity obsessed modern left will lead to race or identity based socialismI think socialism should be for everyone, and if it's just for people of a specific identity group, that's really stupid and I don't support it. That was very easy. You keep throwing down these lines like they're impossible to reply to >you're a Jew who supports NazisWhat? Also this is called a "kapo," now you know. Just don't say this word around Jews because they'll get understandably upset you used it, very touchy subject for them>What do you care about?Equality, justice, etc, which transcend identity boundaries by their very nature>disarm you!I don't support this>open borders!I do support this>replace you with migration!My family got to America in the 1600s, as far as I'm concerned you're just a visitor replacing me>rewrite your entire history!Don't be hysterical, it's unbecoming This has been fun anon but if you're signing off I'll also sign off. Nice talk. I enjoyed it. I had fun. I hope you did too, but I think you're too upset to have fun right now. I hope you get less upset and read Marx
>>25488829Why do you keep pretending I’m angry when I’m the one trying to have a calm conversation and you’re the one who’s been reduced to posting your hand on 4chan like an absolute fucking headcase who is desperate for approval? I don’t know why you think I’m “signing off”, I never said that, it kind of sounds like disordered thinking to me. You apparently can’t distinguish between being criticized for arguing like an autistic loser and some sort of a farewell. Very odd. What else was it? You support “equality, justice, meaningless platitudes and buzzwords etc” wow how brave. Back to your broken record about all the things you don’t really believe. You support the second amendment? I doubt that. Let me guess you support freedom of speech too. What about private property? What other completely incompatible with socialism type things do you support? Also, kapos were concentration camp victims who were forced into service by the Nazi guards, not willing ideological participants in their own genocide, you absolute fucking retard.
>>25488829>SOIBOT MY STRENGTH IS FADINGlmaoing @ that dyel hand no wonder you're a retarded dishonest cuck
>>25488829So your family has been in America for 400 years but have been such losers that whole time that they created a socialist ancestor? Your family couldn’t provide more for you than a motel growing up or something?
