marxism will die out in this century because marxists don't breed

Yea quite a lot.

>>25599225
Such as?

>>25599219
>it's totally Capitalists fault! Alienation! Labour!
it's getting tiresome

>>25599219
Watch Daimon Walter's video essay on Skibbity Toilet.
It's not just a bit about Marx, it's more to do with Land, but he covers Marx, Kant, Nietzsche and others

>>25599231
>Tiresome
Why not let it sink for once, bozo?

>>25599238
Sink is good metaphor of all Marxists intellectual endevours. All for nothing.

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>>25599219
Zizek speaks about this.

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>>25599240
As in penetrate that noggin

>>25599222
The elite want to kill off a few billion of us, but the idea of communism will survive. Marx will survive as long as there is capitalism same as Adam Smith

>>25599236
>video essay

>>25599228
I have come across a few of them, but i dont have all of them ready on hand.
I remember reading a short article on Branko Milanovic's blog about it that was pretty good.
https://branko2f7.substack.com/p/artificial-intelligence-and-future

Cosmonaut magazine has some articles and even books/book reviews about it as well:
https://cosmonautmag.com/search/?category=All&query=AI

>>25599274
>as Adam Smith
That's the thing. There isn't. Marx lived in 19th century England and wrote about 19th century England

>>25599231
>it's getting tiresome
Capitalism?
Yes it does.

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I have found the only people who talked about tech the most have been right wingers like Heidegger, and Ludwig klages, and anarchists like uncle ted and Jacques Ellul.

the question of tech in philosophy seems to be a Marxist blind spot

>>25599242
I'm still houling that this man somehow always looks like he's about to vomit on himself and everyone around him at any given moment

>>25599219
I feel like the development of AI will make capitalism collapse, or at least change it into an unrecognizable form.
Let's imagine a future in which AI, combined with other machines, gains every ability a human has, both physically and mentally. It can now do everything a human can do, i.e., provide labor, make art, solve math problems, etc.This has some significance, and I'll come back to it later.
During and after the Industrial Revolution, new machinery generally created more jobs and contributed to overall economic growth. While some job losses occurred in certain sectors, new technologies were generally a positive thing for the economy. (I hope anons understand some of the basic mechanisms behind this economic phenomenon. I'll keep this post short, so you know.)
However, when AI gains the same abilities as humans, new jobs won't go to humans; they'll go to AI, since it can do the same jobs as humans but more cheaply. This makes AI a substitute for human labor, meaning both new and existing jobs will increasingly go to AI.
As a result, people who sell their labor to earn money will no longer have their traditional source of income. This creates a problem.
These people make up a large majority of the world's population. Most companies depend on them to buy their products. But if these people have no substantial income, they won't generate demand for goods as they did before. Without demand, there will be no incentive to produce goods, which, in turn, could cause the capitalist economic system to face a strong challenge.
So, either capitalism will evolve into another form that retains some traces of its earlier structure, or it will collapse completely.
I would say we should accelerate this process, i.e., make markets freer and reduce regulations on AI. Changing capitalism at this point will only lead to failure, as we've seen how other economic systems throughout history have failed in comparison to capitalism.
Let it accelerate.

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>>25599219
>Automation disproves Marx
Laughably stupid, but what the LessWrong crowd actually believes is
>AI Agents are human beings, which disproves Marx
Which is far more retarded because it's also an illiterate take on Marx but also signals you read some ugly pervert's Harry Potter fanfic before you read Capital or any other work of Western philosophy.
If you're on LessWrong it's because you saw picrel and decided he was more worth your time than Aristotle, and following that got groomed into some bizarre cult because of Roco's Basilisk o algo.

>>25599331
I also think the rationalists are retarded. On the other hand they’ve been right on everything in this AI thing so far, so perhaps we should listen to them

>>25599219
Marx himself talked about this in volume 1 of Das Kapital, chapter 15, an in his notes. People call it the fragment about machines. He said that automation under capitalist control would mean alienation, displacement of labor and lower wages, thus bringing an intensification labor and ecplotaotion, which is badically what we're seeing now.
Automation under socialism meant the opposite. Machines would reduce labor time, labor intensity, thus bringing free time to workers. At some point worker would be free of all labor as machines did all the work. He even wrote about " General Intellect" as the knowledge and tech built into machines. If you ask me, that's AI.

>>25599323
the large majority of the world's population has never had "substantial income" anon

>>25599310
Chuds and Marxists are really the same, one blame the Jews second Capitalism, for all the shortcomings of their egos

>>25599355
And your are..?

>>25599355
I hate most marxists too, anon
t. marxist
Marx was still right

>>25599222
They recruit like the gays.

>>25599219
It's all the same fundamental aspects. If you're thinking of LLMs as fundamentally different than introducing servomechanisms or something you're flawed.

You can nitpick idiocy of the promising huge productivity gains which should translate into huge real wage growth.

>>25599323
>While some job losses occurred in certain sectors, new technologies were generally a positive thing for the economy
New technology tends to be deflationary and "bad" for vested economic interests. Falling prices aren't good and result in insolvency, debt deflation, etc. That's what happened towards the end of the 19th century where industries tried to form syndicates and control prices, etc.

AI doesn't seem to be deflationary force yet and driving up costs if anything by being a huge resource hog.

>This makes AI a substitute for human labor, meaning both new and existing jobs will increasingly go to AI.
All investment is a substitute for labour. If everything becomes more capital intensive, accounting for depreciation becomes an issue.

>As a result, people who sell their labor to earn money will no longer have their traditional source of income. This creates a problem.

That's always the first issue with a economic depression and everybody notices there's some sort of demand problem. What happened historically was something like military Keynesianism, instead of producing consumer goods businesses can sell services to government.

>>25599365
Well why do YOU hate them

>>25599387
>It's all the same fundamental aspects. If you're thinking of LLMs as fundamentally different than introducing servomechanisms or something you're flawed.
This is obviously different because this technology can basically do any job quicker and more efficiently than a human can, except for manual jobs (yet)

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>>25599331
>san francisco new rationalists start-up societal cancer
you are the biggest fucking retards if you actually believe these faggots are not pro AI - they are literal reason it became such a big deal in the first place. like just go back to prone boning your Bayes theorem body pillow please

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>>25599392
>This is obviously different because this technology can basically do any job quicker and more efficiently than a human can, except for manual jobs (yet)

These things do not possess anything like general intelligence. They are trained on data sets and can be prompted and guided but have limits which become apparent when you attempt to actually do advanced operations and integrate them into business process operations.

You are taking corporate press briefings and youtube tinkers at face value. Like I said think of these as servomechanisms and a lot of what will unfold will make more sense.

>>25599316
Because Marxism is a technology (not the only form of economic technology but technology nonetheless). You cannot separate the two, hence why college Marxists go on and on about it being an empirical "science" of economy rather than a mere philosophy. There's also a whole thing about technology and the superstructure interacting with each other, evolving and eventually bringing about the end of history (or Pre-history if you're that kind of Marxist)

>>25599331
The rationalist cult that elevates this technology to the status of a person even though it is clearly a computer program operating on a dataset serves as a smokescreen for their intention to impose hierarchical authoritarianism, with their own insular techno-financial circles and networks positioned at the top. I find popular AI discourse tedious and informed heavily by pop culture sci-fi tropes, hysteria and paranoia to serve to divert attention from the real issue that is the malevolence of the liberal ruling class and the bourgeoisie’s drive to further consolidate the dominance of capital. In this context, AI is merely another tool in the vast arsenal employed in a struggle that has been ongoing for centuries between the conservative preservation of hierarchy vs popular rule.

>>25599222
are you actually retarded lol?

>>25599222
The idea will persist as long as capitalism exists

Excellent bait image

>>25599628
Honestly I doubt it. Looking at demographics Muslims will be a plurality if not outright majority of humans at some point, and Muslims are completely immune to Marxism.

>>25599350
It's from the Grundrisse

>>25599219
Look up Jacobin articles, they had a whole issue on it last year and have been continuing some coverage on it. Verso is a big lefty publisher, I’m sure they’ve pumped out a few recently.

>>25599677
>Jacobin
>Verso
Neither of these are really Marxist, they'll both publish Marxists occasionally but the bulk of Verso is insular, poststructuralist wank exclusively for other Verso authors and most Jacobin articles are by social democrats who have abandoned the LTV in favor of marginalism. Anyway Marx himself wrote extensively on automation, Claude Code is no different than a cotton gin in that it automates a portion of labor. Anthropic's recent PR push around getting religious leaders to sign off on its humanity is just an attempt to undermine what remains of liberalism in order to juice the graph and get more data centers built.
>>25599470
Truke

>>25599708
Are you willing to entertain the idea that Anthropic and their ilk are actually on the way to creating AGI? And if they do, things change so much that our current discussions of capitalism are rendered moot

>>25599712
It doesn't really seem to add up with the way the technology works. The notion of a conscious, fully autonomous entity capable of ushering in a utopia of abundance while performing any conceivable task without supervision or oversight does not seem particularly consistent with how LLMs actually function or the way they are designed. It may be capable of very impressive results, but it is still dependent on an input and a user prompt, and it lacks a true consciousness or "thinking" to be able to meaningfully adapt if not already given a prompt or cue by the user to build from. In my view, the real issue lies in questions of ethics and how the technology is deployed by the dominant classes, who already control the means of production.

In this context, AI functions as an advanced productive tool, but remains ultimately just one component within the broader spectrum of computing and information technologies that have already impacted the distribution of work and labor opportunity in the West and the prevailing economic disparities between white-collar and blue-collar work, knowledge work/tech work/services vs manual labor and such. Of course, it may further accelerate it, but this has already been an existing trajectory and dialectic.

If, hypothetically, such a situation were to result in an abundance sufficient to sustain society indefinitely without the need for productive human labor, liberalism would be compelled either to resort to massive state intervention to regulate access to resources and provide either makework jobs or welfare policy to preserve itself without succumbing to unrest. A compelling alternative from the left would be to proceed with the nationalization and socialization of technological infrastructures so the gains are in the hands fully of the worker and the technology is utilized in a manner to benefit the nation state/government. If it were to reach such a stage, such technologies would become a threat comparable to military-grade weaponry or telecommunications infrastructure. The oligarchy might, and in all likelihood will, attempt to exploit this situation to further concentrate wealth. However, such a move would inevitably trigger uprisings and destabilization. Furthermore, given that hierarchy derives part of its value from comparisons with others and the capacity to exercise power, the absence of underlings would strip the power and wealth of the elites of any relative value.

>>25599222
soviets had a super high birthrate and it plummeted and remained low after the soviet union fell. its got nothing to do with marxism.

>>25599760
They don't care if they rule over ashes, they'll burn it all down if it means they can "win"

>>25599712
Hic rhodus, hic salta

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>>25599222
orly?

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>>25599219

>>25599368
Because they literally are the gays.

>>25599316
You would like this. It is long but well worth the time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xfmpgIH8IQ

>>25599355
>one blame the Jews second Capitalism
Take capitalism out of social operations and you render (((The Jews))) and all other ills of corruption inert.
Take all Jews to the grave and you have a world of corruption still.

And I am NOT A MARXIST. This has been a thing for thousands of years. It is at the core of Christ's teaching. This aspect Marx disposed. He wanted Christian socialism to be silenced. And ((someone)) agreed with him and funded him and the Marxists takeover.

>>25600509
>disposed
*Despised rather

>>25599219
During the Soviet days there was a book called "Cybernetics in Service of Communism" that caused quite a stir for a while in the '60s, but then was suppressed. I've never been able to find a copy, even in Russian.

>>25600532
Beer?

>>25600555
If you mean Berg, yeah. It was based on (or possibly the source for) a talk he gave in '61 that got the Ministry of Defense to fund a development school for cybernetics and AI.

>>25600563
I was think Stafford Beer.

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>>25600577
Oh, the cybersyn guy! Yeah nah, it was by Aksel Berg.

>>25600532
if you want it in print it looks like it's included in "From Newspeak to Cyberspeak: A History of Soviet Cybernetics" published by MIT.

>>25599219
Check out Wilderness Front they've put out some writings on AI plus an article on why capitalism isn't the entire problem.

>>25599222
Nobody has been breeding for decades

>>25601290
Not on my watch.

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>>25599219
Marxists should be pro-AI because that would alleviate some of the suffering we currently deal with or something.

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>>25599365

>>25599219
No kek, marxists don't understand technology or markets, much less AI, their very theory prevents them from doing so, capitalism wins again.

>>25599316
Some of the new left thinkers usually lumped technology as part of the backbone of the culture industry, as technological changes also enabled the intensification of obscuring the relation between labor and capital (e.g PMC, gig workers, precariat but this can be contested as a revisionist approach within Marxist tradition). But their humanist critiques impedes their ability to recognize other dimensions like the technical aspects (usually invokes by the tech-savvy, privacy oriented folks like RMS) and many others.

>>25601608
The automation and AI etc. has always hurt workers, but that is because of capitalists.
The liberals say things'll be so great and give us all sorts of time off, "let the robots take care of. whoopy." But they ignore that this puts people out of work. "Oh, well just have more robot repairmen. Gotta go back to school for training, guy. Get a student loan again!" Meanwhile they fudge the job market numbers, the homelessness numbers.
Without the capitalists, automation and AI etc. CAN improve our lives. We WOULD have time off to pursue other things, other work, creative work, kickback or traveling Whatever we want. How? Why would this be possible?
WAGES. Why should our lives be controlled by the little kings of corporations?
And no, I am not Marxist. We do not need a single party "vanguard" ruling in DC to make all this possible. Fuck Marx, Lenin etc.

>>25599668
>Muslims are completely immune to Marxism.
If anything, experience has shown that muslims are not immune to capitalism. Which means they will have to face Marxism sooner or later

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>>25599668
If there's one thing that unite turdwolders is their unabashed usage of AI to conduct their thought and action. It's like the digital equivalent of giving them AK and pickup trucks.

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>>25599331
>>25599334
>>25599394
>>25599470
leftypol tranny breakdown over rationalists. every single time. you love to see it.
>it is clearly a computer program operating on a dataset
it doesn't matter. do you think "it's just a computer, it's just electrical circuits" is a novel and insightful criticism? do you really think you just stated something novel and profound and intellectually deep? do you really think this isn't something everyone has heard a million times before, even from actual boomers? even from religious larpers? you are really a fucking disgusting subhuman.
>serves as a smokescreen for their intention to impose hierarchical authoritarianism
alex jones conspiratard retardation, but trooned out and leftist, this gives you dopamine when you post it on leftypol with other disgusting trannies and makes you feel cool and rebellious. kill yourself nasty subhuman freak.
>I find popular AI discourse tedious
that's because you're a leftypol tranny who is only interested in leftypol tranny cliches and jerking off with marxist phraseology that makes you feel cool and rebellious and like a maoist intellectual revolutionary from the 1960s. you have no understanding of the tech, you have zero understanding of even the actual conversation that is going on among people who are remotely serious.
>serve to divert attention from the real issue that is the malevolence of the liberal ruling class and the bourgeoisie’s drive to further consolidate the dominance of capital
more alex jones conspiratard nonsense but leftypol trooned out so it makes you feel rebellious and intellectual to post it because you're a disgusting larping subhuman trooned out freak.
>>25599708
leftypol tranny coming in with emotional support on /lit/ to back up fellow leftypol tranny. reminder this is what these tranny fucking freaks think of as revolutionary activity. yes they're really imagining themselves as brave bolshevik comrades storming petrograd palaces when they go on /lit/ to do this.

these tranny freaks don't read books, but they think that because they're tranny communists who go on leftypol it automatically makes them intellectuals and readers.

>>25601697
seethe moar faggot

>>25601666
>akshually, capitalism is le bad
Highest level marxist analysis

>>25601697
I like that socialists version of a slur is calling someone an Uyghur, kulak etc, absolute scum.

>>25601697
Imagine having a kid, raising it, and it ends up being an unlovable, soul-mangled cluster b schizoid because of microplastics. The only moment of reprieve you get from this lifelong burden is when his 4chan ban is up and he can post another nonsensical multiparagraph chimpout about trannies that nobody will read. Grim.

i say it again, they will kill you before giving you UBI, large amounts of the population are not required anymore