I've been reading about the Japanese MMZ lore and there's a lot of details that they never actually tell you in the games that you have to infer yourself and I'm finding it pretty interesting>Weil made Omega using Zero's original body>Weil was blamed for Omega going out of control and killing 60% of all mankind>Weil's goal was to control the REPLOIDS and he never intended to do anything to humans, Omega killing humans was never his plan>It can be inferred that Omega went nuts because Weil didn't account for Zero's body containing Wily's bullshit, which is why Zero went into cold sleep in the first place>Weil is still human but Zero ends up killing him, not just referencing the "what am I fighting for" line from X4 but also referencing the end of MM7 with Wily saying robots can't kill humans>But Zero can because Wily made him it's pottery
>>22596064It's not because Wily built Zero, but because Reploids are something more than the robotic slave force Weil saw them as; it's because they have genuine free will and are not bound to laws like Asimov's that governed Rock and the other precursors to X and Zero.
>>22596080Wrong on all countsReploids are a slave force and are ultimately 3 laws compatible.Thats why them going insane from the virus terrifies humanity because they weren't supposed to rebel.Wily built Zero as vector for the virus to spread and destroy all reploids and also made him able to break all 3 laws for maximum destruction on the human race.Zero chooses to never break those laws of his free will even though he was just another Robot Master to Wily. Although one could argue the chip given to him by Cain is what mellows him out.Zero choosing to kill Weil is him breaking all 3 laws he imposed on himself(or by Cain) and referencing the Zeroth law of Robotics where a Robot can harm human beings if he does so in service of humanity which supersedes the 3 laws.The 3 rules are as of followed>The First Law: A robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.He kills Weil dead in service to Ciel and the human race>The Second Law: A robot must obey the orders given it by human beings except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.He refuses to obey Ciel because doing so would mean an extinction level event for mankind>The Third Law: A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law.He gives up on his own existence so that others may live.
>>22596117>Wily built Zero as vector for the virus to spread and destroy all reploidsReploids didn't even exist when Wily built Zero, you fucking idiot.Reploids are an imperfect copy of X's original design. A design that Wily partially stole to build Zero from.And X was specifically designed by Light to NOT be bound by any system such as Asimov's laws, but have GENUINE free will.This is why Light sealed X in his capsule and subjected him to literal hundreds of years of probing and testing X's mettle wrt moral quandaries, to ensure he wouldn't be setting loose a sociopathic monster on the world.(A sociopathic monster is exactly what you get with Wily's virus.)
>>22596117>Zero choosing to kill Weil is him breaking all 3 laws he imposed on himself(or by Cain) and referencing the Zeroth law of Robotics where a Robot can harm human beings if he does so in service of humanity which supersedes the 3 laws.No. It's a throwback to Rock almost killing Wily at the end of MM7, in SPITE of his programming telling him not to - indicating he was already on the cusp of becoming something greater than the sum of his original parts. It shows X, Zero and Reploids have definitely come full circle to pass over that threshold and in particular it serves to show that Wily HAS LOST to Light, because Wily's creation has chosen - in accordance to what we deem to be proper rational morals, that merely by happenstance align largely with Asimov's three laws - what Light would also have considered THE RIGHT CHOICE.
>>22596139>It's a throwback to Rock almost killing Wily at the end of MM7, in SPITE of his programming telling him not toNot canon, that was a shitty localization change.
>>22596133Its Wily AIWily is still alive fucking over everything Light touchs. Who do you think Isoc is?>A design that Wily partially stole to build Zero from.Zero was in development before even X. Wily started it when Bass was still a thing. If anything he was copied off the original Megaman which they tell you.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-byDNFnfak
>>22596139>THE RIGHT CHOICE.Unrelated but a dev who worked on MM1-6 has been tweeting about stuff lately and confirmed that his name was supposed to be Doctor Right, and that it was just supposed to be the direction (left/right) and not "not wrong" right.https://twitter.com/ak_blueprints/status/1782056017083457863It came from a Japanese thing where, when you compare two things, the one placed on the right is better. Wily's name in English is unchanged and sticks to the intention they had in Japanese.
>>22596139Well one, like the other anon said that was localization.Two you haven't disproved my argument. You dont think Zero enacting the Zeroth law wasnt deliberately chosen and just happenstance?
>>22596133>>22596117The "virus" Zero has is originally Wily's "robot destruction program" (ロボット破壊プログラム)>(A sociopathic monster is exactly what you get with Wily's virus.)Oh boy, don't even get me started on the Zero series lore which outright contradicts X's...I do want to point out that some of the mavericks you fight in the X series aren't malfunctioning and are literally just exercising free will. Repliforce is a prime example, but there's a couple of bosses in the later games as well. The hunters don't discriminate between robots that got infected by a virus and are going on a rampage, and dissidents who just don't want to be enslaved.
>>22596064>This guy is very dangerous and exterminated 60% of all human life on earth>we should punish him by making him immortal, giving him a robot body with the power to assimilate superweapons, and keep him with the super robot that exterminated 60% of mankind for easy access!neo arcadia was asking for it
>>22596157Humans make very stupid decisions in pretty much every Megaman timeline
>>22596160He survives getting hit by the fucking ragnarok, what the fuck kind of technology are they using on HIM and not themselves or any of the reploids that serve/protect them?
>>22596153>Repliforce is a prime exampleWeren't they infected. Not all of them but definitely some of them.
>>22596165No, they're explicitly not. The entire point of X4's story is that Sigma knows how retarded the hunters are and lures Colonel to the colony drop site so that Repliforce gets implicated and they get fed up with baseless accusations and try to secede and become an independent stat. And since that's not what they're supposed to do they're confirmed as mavericks. But none of them were ever infected.There's some maverick bosses like the peacock and mushroom in X4, but most are just military men doing their job.
>>22596173You can tell which ones are just repliforce dudes and which ones are actual mavericks because they have different logos on their life bars
>>22596173interesting i always assumed bad actors like the mavericks infected the entire thing top to bottom
>>22596307the entire damn point of X4's story is that repliforce has no mavericks at all dude what the fuck?
>>22596312The fuck do you expect Dragoon was laughing at killing civiliansJet Stingray was committing terrorism Im pretty damn sure they were mavericksEspecially since Dragoon was the one who did said maverick attack
>>22596332Dragoon's not Repliforce, he's a fucking hunter.And yeah, he did the attack that the hunters BLAMED REPLIFORCE FOR. What do you think that looks like to Repliforce? A hunter fucking did a terrorist attack, and then the hunters said Repliforce did it.
>>22596339Im misremembering then. Because i could have sworn he was repliforceWhy the fuck would repliforce take in the person that committed the terroist act and got them all blacklisted?
>>22596348They didn't. He went maverick as a hunter and you're sent to hunt him down.There's no mention of why the stage has repliforce enemies but story-wise he has nothing to do with them.
>>22596355https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHujVyS8qx4He says he works for repliforce, so i assumed he was repliforce.
>>22596362I am more than a robot!!! Die Wily!!!!
>>22596362Nta but I'm pretty sure Sigma told Dragoon to work for Repliforce to fan the flames of the war for his chance to beat X and less to do with a translation error.>>22596378
Zero isn't a reploid because he wasn't made based on X's data.You can kinda argue that MMZ's Copy Zero is a reploid, because he's made based on Zero's data, but ehhh.
>>22596378could be i always felt translations were a little off>>22596383yeah that seems to be what the video implies as well
>>22596402I like the arc-welding schizoposting of Bass and Zero technically being Reploids from Wily scrapping a significantly divergent draft of X's schematics from Quint. Patent infringement and industrial espionage via time travel, rather than reverse-engineering.
>>22596312Maverick-ism doesn't necessarily mean they're infected by the Virus so I wonder which of the bosses in the game are sick and which genuinely decided to break the law?
>>22596064I love Zero and ZX so much!
>>22596157>>22596160Wouldnt the one to have made that decision been X, the ruler of Neo Arcadia at the time? He might have done it because he didnt want to kill a human or because he wanted a punishment more severe than death for Weil (unbearable boredom and suffering). That Weil could integrate his robotic body into weapons certainly wasnt intended, but the Neo Arcadians should have been able to guess considering weil was a skilled scientist and engineer.
>>22596173>>22596236>>22596307The Mushroom Boss was almost certainly infected by the Sigma Virus, but Magma Dragoon also has the Sigma logo on his health bar and he only seems to have cooperated with sigma of his own will to fight X and Zero.
>>22596133>This is why Light sealed X in his capsule and subjected him to literal hundreds of years of probing and testing X's mettle wrt moral quandaries, to ensure he wouldn't be setting loose a sociopathic monster on the world.Nta but small correction that Light only intended for X to have morality testing for only 30 years and left instructions saying "DON'T OPEN UNTIL AFTER 30 YEARS THIS ROBOT IS DANGEROUS AND WILL KILL YOU" but then stuff happened, Light died and Dr. Cain wouldn't find X until 100 years later in the ruins of Light's lab and that's why X has such a heightened sense of right and wrong The point still stands that Dr. Cain definitely did not give the Reploids enough time to go through the same thing and that's probably why the virus was so effective on them but as far as we see it doesn't really affect X either
I was searching the archives to repost the info on how Complete Works Zero was mistranslated but ended up finding some dumbasses saying that the suffering circuit (which they called the "suffering chip") was a snon-canon thing from the Zero series mentioned only in interviews and that's plain fucking wrong, the 苦悩回路/thought circuit ("suffering" is a mistranslation) is in the lore for the X series and has been there since the damn SNES games.
But yeah I was looking to repost this:>In the Z series backstory it wasn't the Sigma virus that was infecting reploids, it was X himself, and him being a maverick hunter running around fighting mavericks actually resulted in him spreading the infection more. That's the backstory Inticreates built off of in the MMZ series, and part of why X in that timeline becomes a recluse. >Bottom-left. This is referring to the "suffering circuit" (苦悩回路) which lets X think for himself. It's already pretty clear in the official English version but the Japanese version is more explicit in how the "Sigma Virus" is actually just X's suffering circuit.>And yes this clearly contradicts the X series where the Sigma Virus comes from Zero, because this isn't canon to the X series, it's an alternate version canon to the Z series only.>It's the same explanation for the drastic change in Zero's design, it's an alternate world where that's how he's always looked. >Japanese version.>レプリロイドをイレギュラー化させる恐怖のΣウイルス。その正体は、Dr.ライトがエックスを作るときに組み込んだ苦悩回路だった。>The fearsome Sigma Virus, which causes Repliroids to become Irregulars, is actually the Suffering Circuit that Dr. Light put into X when creating him.>No "originated from" here, the Sigma Virus IS the suffering circuit.
>>22597274>MMZ is NOT a sequel to MMX, it's a parallel universe with a different background. Aside from the elf wars, X also eventually found out that HE was the spreading the maverick virus. In X4 when Zero started getting a headache after beating Sigma that was because ZERO was getting infected from Sigma, to be precise Sigma's copy of X's suffering circuit. The maverick virus is actually X's suffering circuit becoming infectious and giving reploids free will, which usually leads to them going crazy because they never had the testing periods for it. After figuring all of this out X becomes very emo and decides to become a recluse so he can't fuck anything else over, and that's why he also wants his copy done away with.>This is confirmed canon ONLY for the Z series though so it's probably not canon for the X series.
>>22597230>The point still stands that Dr. Cain definitely did not give the Reploids enough time to go through the same thing and that's probably why the virus was so effective on them but as far as we see it doesn't really affect X eitherIts mutation, the Sigma virus, actually does canonically affect X though.X4 literally states it lulls his senses and makes it hard for him to think clearly.And in gameplay this manifests by making X more sluggish and harder to control when the virus touches the player.
>>22597103The point is that it's *all* their own will. The Sigma virus just flips out their logic circuits and capacity for rational thought for Reploids, in a way that e.g. intoxication with alcohol would do for humans.Some when drunk become philosophical philistines that swear the entire system is flawed and will prattle your ears off on how things can be better, and in accordance with higher ideals. Some become loudmouthed annoying pricks. And others gain a short fuse and will flip out throwing bar stools around at the slightest notice.Strangely, we never got the funny drunk or the sad moping drunk - come to think of it ...
>>22596483That explanation is unironically kind of kino though. And would be TOTALLY in-character for Wily.
>>22596348Dragoon was a turn-coat Hunter that went Irregular working for Sigma, and then infiltrated Repliforce only to set off a terrorist attack.Publicly, Dragoon was Repliforce at the time - so the Hunters pinned the attack on Repliforce.Repliforce took it badly, because they figured Dragoon was a Hunter plant and the Hunters orchestrated the whole thing as a means to get enough dirt on Repliforce to warrant coming after them.NEITHER side realized Dragoon could've been working another angle, either for himself or an outside third force.And Sigma meanwhile was doing the arms-folded just-as-keikaku biding his time while the only two forces conceptually capable of opposing him, were too busy achieving mutual assured destruction to fucking think things through.
>>22597440>Publicly, Dragoon was Repliforce at the time - so the Hunters pinned the attack on Repliforce.No, Zero identifies him as a hunter when you enter the room which he just wrecked.
>>22597454Zero identifies him as a Hunter - but then Dragoon's word that 'now he's Repliforce' is taken for truth, so the whole thing is pinned on Repliforce.
>>22597482No he doesn'thttps://youtu.be/txZelOJymVwAnd no 14th unit doesn't mean repliforce he literally says 14th unit hunter in Japanese
>>22597573>>22597482And if you're talking about his boss fight-That comes long after they declare that all of repliforce is mavericks-It doesn't fucking matter what dragoon was because they don't even know that he did it, dragoon tells the player character that a "maverick" did it and he was there to stop it and they believe him The only reason they blame repliforce is because Colonel showed up looking for Iris and then refused to get arrested for literally no reason when they said he was a suspect with no basis
>>22597102X was out of commission to seal away the Dark Elf. Weil was judged by the Eight Gentle Judges, which are the Weil Numbers Zero fights in Z3.
>>22596173>>22596307>>22596668the Mavericm Hunter remake wanted to try and expand on why some of the reploids went Maverick. Either they really were brainwashed or some of them believed it was the actual right thing to do. Or some of them swore loyalty to Sigma because they didn't want to turn on their commander.It would've been neat to see more of that so maybe we'll get more if X9 ever happens>>22597417Ah that's right. Still it seems weird that while it affected X from a gameplay perspective, it didn't really factor into the story it's only really Zero who is affected by it in a way that mattersAlthough given X5's seemingly rushed development I shouldn't be surprised
>>22597287being a maverick hunter running around fighting mavericks actually resulted in him spreading the infection more?!
>>22596064Always felt bad for Copy X Mark I. Sure he was an arrogant prick with a god complex, but he also was the only thing keeping humanity from suffering in Neo Arcadia. Had Ciel just calmed her ass down and used Neo Arcadia's resources to get the Energy Solution made rather than wasting everyones time with backing the resistance, countless humans would have been spared the hell on Earth Weil/Kraft brought about.
>>22597287That article says Zero was the one who spread it across the world. But it also claims X was the originator of the Virus who gave it to Zero first. It also claims Zero has a natural immunity to the virus while ignoring the time he went crazy because of it; if X was the origin of the virus, they should’ve researched him instead.There was also no reason for X to become reclusive because the Mother Elf effectively vaccinated everyone from the Virus (it says so in the article) before turning Dark and it is literally in the dialogue of the game that X only became emo from centuries of managing Neo Arcadia.There are so many self-contradictions within that text, I can only assume it’s badly translated.
>>22598361God I HATE this designer.
I love Toru Nakayama
>>22598468Me too.
>>22596064>>Weil was blamed for Omega going out of control and killing 60% of all mankindWeil had already caused massive amounts of global damage and death before Omega was completed. He only used him during the end of the war after X had recaptured the Dark Elf
Remember back when people thought Iris was the Mother Elf?
>>22598661She sucks and Ciel is better
>>22598382No. The article states that the origins of the SIGMA virus lay in the circuit design that Light designed for X.And that part is actually correct.Even before Sigma existed and long before the mutant strain of the original Zero Virus named after Sigma came into being, Repliroid Irregulars existed. Because Cain was WAY out of his depth when studying X and X's designs and was only ever able to create knock-offs that wouldn't live up to the genuine article. And many of them would snap, because they lacked the greater capacity for empathy and moral consideration that X did and thus they weren't held back in the slightest when they felt wronged and felt the need to lash out and give people their dues for thinking of them as lesser.The Irregular Hunters were originally meant to contain these outbreaks, but the organization was plagued by internal conflict with Hunters themselves going Irregular as well. When Cain created Sigma as the first of a new generation of Hunter, Cain was extremely confident that this new and most advanced attempt yet at copying X's circuit designs would hold and would prevent Sigma from snapping - because they contained very accurate copies of the circuit designs that were meant to have X continuously ponder morality and complex existential questions.Indeed his new design did curb the feral nature of the original Zero Virus when Sigma contracted it from his fight with Zero. He didn't go feral Irregular and wasn't put put down. But the Virus was still with him and over time slowly ate its way into Sigma's moral thinking - allowing him to reach a polar opposite answer to the complex questions of purpose of existence, right to live, etc. than the real thing had allowed X to do. Effectively turning him into a cold, calculating sociopath tyrant. At the same time, the virus mutated with Sigma into a strain that focused on annealing morality while retaining logic, rather than inducing outright feral rage. And the Sigma virus was born.
