Holst Editionhttps://youtu.be/2kDF3AG3Gp4>How do I get into classical?This link has resources including audio courses, textbooks and selections of recordings to help you start to understand and appreciate classical music:https://pastebin.com/NBEp2VFhPrevious: >>122635796
>>122677675Guess I'll listen to The Planets, been over a decade.
brainlets can't into Bruckner they get so mmmmaydd
first for Mahler is shit
Now Playing - Bruckner: From the Archives, Vol. 2 (Remastered 2024)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkIy936zQ-A&list=OLAK5uy_m1a3l-MzBJBPGIIbtgbmWLrAO--2Fomks&index=4
>>122677699truly even brainlets can recognize Bruckner is shit and had nothing interesting to say
>>122677713lol I was also gonna put on some Bruckner. Mass no. 2 is magnificent.
Is Hanns Eisler any good? What kind of music did he write? Was he an expressionist? Serialist? Neoclassical? Did he dabble in that godsforsaken cardboard prop soulless pointless Socialist Realism? What the fuck is up with him? Is his music actually good or does his fame rest entirely on politics and Brecht plays/Hollywood tripe? I have literally only listened to one song by him which didn't really feel neither particularly modern nor neoclassical, so I'm genuinely clueless.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yghNNaM3As
now playing in honor of the OP edition, + another Jurowski / LPO recordinghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stliaFXFMfY&list=OLAK5uy_m1663AMsj0pD8Hks5bB9hLHDDOKqOxNn8&index=1https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_m1663AMsj0pD8Hks5bB9hLHDDOKqOxNn8
>>122677757https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sd3foNKi1hwhe arranged some movements from bruckners 7th for chamber ensemble
>even brainlets can recognize Bruckner is shit and had nothing interesting to say
>>122677807That answers literally none of my questions even vaguely.>>1226777961979 Boult LPO best versionhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGX3kO-MQ2M
what else is there in terms of russian romanticism
>>122677720I don't get the Bruckner hate. He's such an easy composer to enjoy.
>>122678254it's just one brainless slug whining about not being able to get into a composer that the vast majority of regular posters here appreciate
>>122678254so in other words he's entry-level
>>122678298you're entry-level; people just keep entering you with no resistance on your part
What?
>>122678298That's like saying Mozart or Beethoven are entry level. Easy enjoyment does not mean enjoyment ceases at a higher level.
>>122678360he snorts incense like it's coke listening to bruckner
>>122678366pretentious meaningless claptrap; that guy probably couldn't articulate anything meaningful from a musical perspective to save his life. He's probably a professional reviewer.
Glinka, Dargomyzhsky, Balakirev, Mussorgsky, Rimsky-Korsakov, Borodin, Cui, Tchaikovsky, Taneyev, Glazunov, Kalinnikov: Good stuff all around.Rubinstein is a cheap Beethoven/Mendelssohn/Schumann imitator with nothing of importance to say. Arensky is the poor man's Tchaikovsky minus the pathos. Rachmaninoff is a joke. Lyadov I'm not sure about because I haven't delved deep into his stuff, but he seems pretty nondescript from what I can tell. Hopefully I'm wrong. Scriabin and Medtner I absolutely love but I don't consider them part of the romantic canon.What else is there in terms of russian romanticism? Am I missing out on someone?
now playingstart of Piano Concerto No. 1 in E-Flat Major, S. 124:https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nNOWuJ4ipE1_XFg3pL3vAf4DeDvlzQY6Q&si=6WXxcm4bvvmc08EBstart of Piano Concerto No. 2 in A, S.125:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-6QGEtq2yA&list=OLAK5uy_nNOWuJ4ipE1_XFg3pL3vAf4DeDvlzQY6Q&index=59https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nNOWuJ4ipE1_XFg3pL3vAf4DeDvlzQY6Q
>>122678497whoops first link should behttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wd9XMnlFdhM&list=OLAK5uy_nNOWuJ4ipE1_XFg3pL3vAf4DeDvlzQY6Q&index=55
>>122678393sorry >>122678366 I meant to quote >>122678360
>>122678425all slaveslop
now playingGlazunov - Violin Concerto in A minor Op.82:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6923LnXzlCA&list=OLAK5uy_l88uXJ3ZIwxx3xWdbM1OMYe2IJdGkgpGw&index=2Prokofiev - Violin Concerto No. 1 in D Major, Op. 19:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6G3Qicp8JsI&list=OLAK5uy_l88uXJ3ZIwxx3xWdbM1OMYe2IJdGkgpGw&index=3Shchedrin - Stihira:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2X1KKLBHjf4&list=OLAK5uy_l88uXJ3ZIwxx3xWdbM1OMYe2IJdGkgpGw&index=6https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_l88uXJ3ZIwxx3xWdbM1OMYe2IJdGkgpGwI've almost always liked Mutter recordings, as well as Rostropovich as a conductor (and cellist!), so I'm sure this'll be great.
John Irelandhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtJD8uxnh2k&list=OLAK5uy_mwuLeRgxreOnffAfpLRwuP_JDkUaz0UzQ
>>122678897haha yeahAny serious replies?
>>122679106>ireland>he's english
>>122679118You do realise that the word Ireland is english and not irish, right? You do understand this?
>>122678425>>122679113I have no suggestions beyond what you're already familiar with but your posts in the past have helped me discover some music and conductors I did not know before, so thank you.
>>122679125>ireland>land of éirehmm...
>>122679131Were you the one I recc'd a shitload of recordings of Liszt's works and talked about trios and quintets all those weeks ago? If so, wow, how could you even tell it was me also glad to hear it
>>122679113yes, i was serious when i called it slaveslop.
>>122679141>hmm...He's thinking, he's actually doing it>>122677757I'd also like some serious replies please
>>122679160haha cool
Seems the SPCM2022 completion of Bruckner's 9th is finally going mainstream. Chailly will be performing it at various orchestras next year. https://www.concertgebouworkest.nl/en/concert/bruckner-cycle/ninth-symphony
bartok's string quartets
>>122679670the what?
>>122678702Oh, haha, thanks. I was a little confused.
>>122678366Mozart and Beethoven are not easily enjoyed. Their short pieces and movements yes, not the real stuff.
>>122679670took them long enough, lazy fucks. who’s going to be the first to record it?
>>122680126Chailly has an obsession with unfinished works and so on so I wouldn't be surprised if he did an official release of it. Dausgaard has also been performing it lately. There's a live recording on YouTube but the sound quality is not great.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eT_Fv7mC7ow&t=340
>>122680191Oh, it's the 2012 version. Nvm
>Mozart and Beethoven are not easily enjoyed.Imagine thinking this is even remotely true, in the yeare of oure lorde two thousande and twenteye and foure. My nan is more in touch with everyday reality and she died four years ago
>>122680253further proof etc>>122679670>>122680191Janowski w/ the Suisse Romande already exists, there is no need to pay attention to any other version unless approached as a historical curio
>>122677757he wrote jazz and showtunes my dude
>>122680233the 2012 version kinda sucks. i can’t believe it took musicologists 30 years to figure out that the weird combination of themes coda was totally contrived. >>122680346thank you retard
>>122680406>I choose to remain ignorant and I CHOOSE to consume garbage productscan't say I tried to help
What are the key, major, obligatory, necessary, non-superfluous, needed, essential, absolute MUST composers of the classical period (roughly 1750-1810) other than CPE Bach, Haydn, Mozart, and I guess Gluck? Not including transitional composers such as Beethoven.
>>122680419consuming garbage products is a great description for janowski’s bruckner, yeah
>>122680472>if I throw enough "no u"s your way, I will magically be right for liking trash
>>122680454Schoenberg
>>122680506/thread
>>122680506Classical composers sister not atonal RYM tranny composers
>>122680566yes, classical
>>122680580At any rate he said 1750-1810 roughly, 100 years later is not roughly
>>122680487yes, that appears to be what you’re doing. no need to narrate it to the rest of us.
Should Mozart's piano concertos be played on a fortepiano, harpsichord, or a modern Grand Piano?
>>122680605he did it again! The absolute mad lad!
>>122680623Thank you tourister
>>122680608Calliope is the only answer
>>122680608>>122680631do tranime hipsters really>>122680617yes, yes you did.
>>122680657a triple no-u umprompted. This might be this season's record
No one rec'd this Piano Concerto, I'm surprisedhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ynky7qoPnUUWhat are some good recordings?
>>122680608>>122680631be quiet, child molester
>>122680699A poorly structured piece, unconvincingly performed 3 stars
>>122680699I rec'd this quite a few generals ago. I guess lurk moar?
>>122680715>I have shitworms in my ears. They are worms made of shit and they feed on brains. I love them they're my only friendsdang dude alright
>>122680715I don't care, it's absolutely beautiful.I liked his chamber music but this seems far ahead.
>>122680608>>122680631continue speaking, child caretaker*
>>122680681go molest kids somewhere else>>122680688no need to narrate your actions to us, it’s really not necessary
>>122680702>>122680657
>>122680748nonce moment
In Schumann there is not a single melody, and that’s why I place Schubert so high above him.
>>122680699Pretty sure I've posted it multiple times over the years. Anyway it's a masterpiece.
>>122680784tell me you're only vaguely familiar with either without telling me
>>122680830Anon, that's a Wagner quote.
>>122680126I thought it was some Asian fuck
>>122680838then tell Wagner to tell me she was only vaguely familiar with either without telling me
>>122680840someone’s already recorded the 2022 revision? where?
>>122680842I'm nta but it's kinda retarded to presume that wasn't properly familiar with Schumann's music. Not sure how well known Schubert was at the time.
>>122680838>Anon this retarded take was a quote by a retardf i g u r e s
>>122680903you know what's retarded? Saying "in Schumann there is not a single melody". You know, something a retard like Vagner would say
>>122680784>In Schumann there is not a single melody,Oh?Then why the hell am I humming Schumann melodies?
Why is Schubert brought up when Schumann is mentioned anf vice-versa? Is it because both their names start with "Schu"?Am
rec me Mahler 10s
>>122680959if what schumann came up with can be called a melody then so can babies' crying and dogs' farting
>>122681088Trollpost
>>122681077dausgaard is a pretty easy choice. latest cooke revision, lively tempos, exciting playing, what’s not to like?
>>122680853no he hasn't yet but he's scheduled to this year I think
>>122680253anon the average individual CANNOT sit through a Mozart or Beethoven concerto, don't kid yourself. even pieces that "fill seats" such as M's Requiem have the average audience member checking their watched halfway through.
>>122680454kraus, spohr, paisiello, eybler
>>122681292if it’s sooner than the chailly performance next year i’ll take it. i’ve been waiting for literally anyone to record the SMPC 2022 revision for 2 years now.
>>122680752Thank you tourister
>>122681375don’t you have a child to be ogling at a playground right about now?
for the few people that give a shit, as far as i know, this is the only recording there is right now of the 2022 SPCM bruckner 9 completionhttps://www.youtube.com/live/cEgRTwA68Mo?si=zNOqi1rkDLoIZqS6
>>122681477Maho is not a child doebeit, shes 21
>>122681605go justify your pedophilia somewhere else
>>122681664>liking 21 year olds is pedophilialovely
>>122681703>continues to actively engage in it nevertheless, albeit retardlylovely
>>122681703
anime website, flyover
>>122680454Why set the bar so high? If those are your criteria you're going to miss out on some decent music like that of Johann Adolph Hasse or Giovanni Battista Sammartini
What is the best Mozart Opera?
Finished the Rattle Mahler cycle and it was quite good, especially the 2nd (both BPO and CBRO versions), 6th, 8th, and 9th (the third recording with SDBR). Guess I'll explore Haitink's now. He's got a few, so whichever is most highly recommended on Amazon I guess, which for the 6th is a tie between this one and his BPO which includes, supposedly, an amazing Songs of a Wayfarer.
>>122677675Can you guys recommend me some repetitive and kinda drone-y music?
>>122683362That's Bruckner's whole thing in his symphonies!
>>122683408Thanks, do you have a particular symphony to recommend?
>>122683435Really all of them but start with these two:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvCUHLQx2uMhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrO9NUTb298
>>122683447Thank you so much again, have a great day
>>122683495You too, hopefully they fit what you're looking for.
>>122683150Most people would say Figaro, but for me it's The Magic Flute
>>122680608Maho is so cute...
>>122680699https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZtpJHhhAqEhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGZUi2F2vvwhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsTKaY8jIgw
>>122684443Jazz is garbage.
This is a really good Mahler 1, and this 6 was excellent too: >>122683172
>>122684443Jazztards are the biggest psueds to walk this earth
The only composers I actively listen to are Beethoven, Liszt, and Debussy.
>>122684443GLIF.app
>>122684975For me it's Chopin, Bach and lately Schumann
>>122685221jazz listeners are 15 years old and use meme generators, news at 11
>>122683172The Haitink Mahler cycle to get is the Concertgebouw one. The later ones are more boring
>>122683172Maybe it's the recording but after listening to pic, I think Mahler's 2nd is quite overrated. It's fine but hardly one of his best, much less one of the greatest symphonies of all time as it is often placed.
>>122685788I have that one and really like what I've heard off of it. I should just listen to everything off of it but like I said been cycling between it and some of the newer CSO recordings; that 6 in the pic I posted was very good, for example, but I haven't heard the one from the Concertgebouw cycle for comparison.
>>122685798the 2nd is very overrated, but that recording is also terrible>>122685831the CSO recordings are really not worth anyone’s time. he never topped his first concertgebouw cycle.
>>122685908>the CSO recordings are really not worth anyone’s time. he never topped his first concertgebouw cycle.I'll listen to the 6th off the Concertgebouw cycle in the coming days but take a listen to this and tell me it isn't incredible:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iO3Ai5M7g04&list=OLAK5uy_mDy0HhJ-m7qUJ7DuqwUkZBZ3hjWAYCQRs&index=1
>>122686036no, it’s really just okay at best. the reason the concertgebouw cycle sounds good in the first place is because the concertgebouw is (was) a better orchestra than haitink is a conductor. take that away and he doesn’t really have anything interesting to offer as an interpreter.
now playingstart of Piano Quartet in E-Flat Major, Op. 47:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyxyO-mRgWY&list=OLAK5uy_lzh9H13Dkf5wok2SliuuHoYpe-GqMrp7w&index=2start of Piano Quintet in E-Flat Major, Op. 44:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OxntPUOVh8&list=OLAK5uy_lzh9H13Dkf5wok2SliuuHoYpe-GqMrp7w&index=6https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lzh9H13Dkf5wok2SliuuHoYpe-GqMrp7w
Honestly the only movement from Mahler's 2nd symphony that is truly remarkable to me is probably the third movement.Personal ranking of the symphonies is probably something like:9 > 6 > 4 > 7 > 5 > 8 > 3 > 2 > 1
>>122686169maybe you just haven't found a good enough recording
>>122681309Spohr is transitional, but thanks for the others
>>122686169actually quite correct>>122686192the second is just not that good of a symphony dude.
>>122681301I'm really sad that that's been your experience. I hope you find yourself surrounded by better people soon.>>122681970What do you mean "so high"? I'm literally asking for any and all composers from the classical period that NEED to be heard. If they have enough works that are worth listening to and are quintessentially classical then I'm asking for them
>>1226861699>6>5>1>7>8>3>2>4
>>122686192I don't hate the symphony or anything, it's quite good, it's just often touted as up there with the 9th which I don't agree with. I've probably heard every recording at this point. My favorite is Klemperer.
>>122686273didn’t know it was possible to underrate the 4th
>>122686335But you see how easy it is to overrate it. Fine, prop it above 2; those three are pretty much interchangeable anyway
>mehlerlol
now playingstart of Violin Sonata No. 1 in F Major, Op. 8:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vf8nWb-7h44&list=OLAK5uy_kIqlpCmDsOYkhVjn3Xh4St4saaye7JhnA&index=2start of Violin Sonata No. 2 in G Major, Op. 13:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n58uyuIIiG8&list=OLAK5uy_kIqlpCmDsOYkhVjn3Xh4St4saaye7JhnA&index=5start of Violin Sonata No. 3 in C Minor, Op. 45:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kSrYanl1W4&list=OLAK5uy_kIqlpCmDsOYkhVjn3Xh4St4saaye7JhnA&index=8https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_kIqlpCmDsOYkhVjn3Xh4St4saaye7JhnAI love Grieg's violin sonatas so much.
>>122678425>Am I missing out on someone?Not sure abot any more russians, but there's at least one ukrainian you should check outhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mykola_Lysenko
>>122686454they’re really not though, the 4th is obviously so much better than the first 3. it might be better than the 5th and 7th even.
>>122687084I didn't mean "the first three", I meant the three shittiest, that is 2, 3 & 4>it might be better than the 5th and 7th even.hah
>>122687084based 4th appreciator
>>122687169cringe
>>122679000which pieces do you recommend to get into violin music? stravinsky's violin concerto is (strangely) the only violin-focused work i've enjoyed
https://open.spotify.com/album/4UieTt0aM57F5XBzTjnkYX?si=wGwaHcZ-QmeJCmQ5Yk488QBach
>>122687260I started writing a list of recommendations from scratch but remembered easier and probably better is just to direct you to here:https://www.talkclassical.com/threads/compilation-of-the-tc-top-recommended-lists.17996/Peep the "The TC Top 100 Recommended Chamber Duos" and "The TC Top 50 Recommended String Concerti" lists specifically. Work through the lists however but I'd probably suggest doing a mix of starting with the names you recognize + further exploring those with ones you like as well as working down the lists one-by-one.
>>122687260>>122687343Oh and only because it's on a different list than those two (at or near the top, of course), don't forget about Bach's Partitas and Sonatas for Solo Violin. Shit, might listen to some of those myself right now, been a while, used to listen to them near daily.
now playingstart of Ravel - Piano Trio in A minor, M. 67:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uY8lrpXHtvQ&list=OLAK5uy_miiM5l0Thmj34c3nVdbppTDCsmodN-JDA&index=2start of Debussy - Sonata in G Minor for Violin & Piano, L. 140:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEaRy9Ty1iQ&list=OLAK5uy_miiM5l0Thmj34c3nVdbppTDCsmodN-JDA&index=6start of Debussy - Sonata in D Minor for Cello & Piano, L.135:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W69ImMWxNdE&list=OLAK5uy_miiM5l0Thmj34c3nVdbppTDCsmodN-JDA&index=9https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_miiM5l0Thmj34c3nVdbppTDCsmodN-JDAAll masterpieces of course but the Debussy Cello Sonata is really blowing me away right now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrhLqo7x22Uwtf gould this is actually good
more like this?https://youtu.be/iTLAbpIl5v4?si=g9KCFBHBs3qRerBI
>>122687114the fourth is a country mile above the 1st too. it’s really one of his best symphonies, and an easy way to disprove the notion that mahler was somehow not a formally bound composer.
I know it's most likely the pleb opinion because it's the most 'conventional' but the Mahler 4 is my favorite of his. But again, like I've posted before, I'm all about the life-affirming, ecstatic beauty Mahler moreso than I am the metaphysical, contemplative or musically complex and structural depth Mahler.tier 1:4, 6, 8tier 2:3, 5, 9tier 3:1, 2, 7Still haven't heard 10! And they're all at a minimum great. I'll also admit that 7 is the one I 'get' the least so my ranking probably isn't fair, or probably won't reflect my future opinion of it.
>>122687487Going through the pieces backwards (only felt like listening to the cello sonata at first), and finishing up the Debussy Violin Sonata, and wow! Stunning, animated, wonderful piece and recording, which I guess isn't surprising given the performers, highly recommended to all here. I guess I might as well finish listening to the entire thing by playing the Ravel Piano Trio now -- a highly acclaimed piece I've never personally really loved before but I suspect that had more to do with subpar recordings than the work itself, so I'm excited to find out given the high quality of the rest of the album.
is listening to program music without the program retarded?like I listened to the nutcracker and I recognized a lot of bangers from popular culture but it felt as if there was no unity in the piece, rather a compilation of good movementsI guess this answers it right? You can't just blindly listen to some works without the background knowledge required to fully understand them?
>>122684443Kek
>>122685243What do you see as the unifying element in each set of composers?
Liszt- a tale told by an idiot full of sound and fury signifying nothing
anyone here use RYM? used to use it religiously many years ago before I began listening to near exclusively classical, as the status of the site's catalogue of classical releases wasn't the best at the time so I found I would have to manually add a large majority of the recordings I was listening to if I wanted to add/rate them to my account and didn't have the time or motivation at the time to do so.but with the amount of music I listen to nowadays again (all classical) and large variety of recordings, it'd be nice to be able to catalogue my listening and preferences of recordings via ratings, and a cursory glance at the site's library right now shows a pleasantly surprising and monumental increase in the quantity of their classical releases, + I've got more free time these days so far more up to adding any recording I'm listening to that they're missing, so might start using the site again.but yeah curious if anyone else here does and if so, if my observation from a quick glimpse is accurate to your experience of their catalogue of classical releases as satisfactorily fleshed out these days
>>122688168I'll probably end up listening to the entire thing anyway but are there any particular works on this set that aren't good/worth listening to?
>>122687925listen to music however you want and don't let snobs/autists tell you you're listening to it "wrong", its listening to music as a hobby not a job or fixing a car or some shit
>>122688237right, but I gotta admit if it weren't for robert greenberg telling me about the lore surrounding la symphonie fantastique I wouldn't be able to appreciate it as much as I do nowI'm not gonna lie I've got a list of orchestral works to listen to but idk within that list what is program music and what isn'tshould I bother tracking them down? I just fear of missing out on the experience
Now Playing - Schubert: Piano Trio, D. 929, Op. 100 & Fantasia, D. 934, Op. 159https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCgyvxCoTl0&list=OLAK5uy_l0rzDqejuoEyqKq-ksiLv8V7KI6J8Wwpk&index=1
>>122688234no, the whole set is worth listening to, though the early symphonies are especially good.
>>122688528Alright cool, thanks, listening to the 7th right now. Already the first movement is quite different than what I've heard from most others but enjoying it.
Hey what do y'all niggas think of Holst's Hammersmith (Prelude & Scherzo)?I mean I'm pretty sure it's just like 4 melodies throughout interwoven and chopped up and played in different keys dynamics etc Is there value to something like this? Or is it just le random and I happen to like it because it's noisy? At least with the Somerset Rhapsody there are unique modular changes and an easily digestible uhhh "story" if you will. Thoughts?
>angloid “composers”
>>122688976I love it, and I'm not even a fan of march bands/military ensembles, but he managed to do something interesting and different with it. Then again I'm a big fan of the guy and I've tried to argue in his favour here before to very predictable results>>122689097for example
>>122684443>practices scales That's even more jazz lmao
>>122689147how is practising scales "even more jazz" my brother in Woden
time to get HIP
>>122689113>but he managed to do something interesting and different with it.yehhim and uhh what's his name Paul Hindemith did some interesting stuff though I'm inclined to say Hindemith is kind of a hack as much as I love the stuff. Grainger is interesting too if you can't cope with loss of innocence and have masochistic tendencies
mahler was formally bound to mediocrity and kitsch
>>122689423I can't stomach neoclassicism to save my life. I wish it weren't so, but that's where I'm at right now. Holst is kind of a sleeper modernist because much like Vaughan Willians he has the one work everyone knows and it's so commonplace that no one stops to think about it from a musical perspective, they just go "huh huh mars sounds liek muh star wroz" and move on, but even though he never wrote any other "major" work such as that, his oeuvre is peppered with surprising, daring, advanced li'l works, and I love him for that. Hell, going back to the Hammersmith, the only works that can be compared to it are a few by Milhaud and maybe MAYBE Křenek from around the same time (coincidentally both had a neoclassical stint but then again those are two of the most prolific and varied composers of the 20th century). As for Grainger he reminds me of early Delius but with less personality. Maybe I just need to listen to more of his stuff.
>>122680959Makes sense to me. He was intimately familiar with Schumann and his music, I'll take his opinion over yours.
>>122689567>papa says so I love papa he always rightJune is over, faggot, go be proud elsewhere
Did he really think this sounded like Gladiator music lmao? What was he THINKING?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTYCTw4QJAg&ab_channel=Wurlitzer157
>>122689551>As for Grainger he reminds me of early Delius but with less personality. Maybe I just need to listen to more of his stuff.I mean grainger did a lot of that same "reworked folk tune" shit in fact he resigned himself to that fate really. But at least he gets way goofy with it. Lincolnshire Posy is fun if not terribly interesting, and I always liked the cinematic feel of Children's March but it's undeniably silly. >his oeuvre is peppered with surprising, daring, advanced li'l worksI always enjoyed the technicality of a lot of music, those moments with the strange clashing (though related) metres and clashing key sigs and what have you. It is shame that Jupiter is like, a national hymn and a (now) trite melody you can play in the background of mail-order jewelry commercials when in reality the dude was a scientist.I am curious what you might think of Hindemith's Symphony in B-flat if you've listened to it.
>>122689567>I'll take his demonstrably wrong opinion over literal factsthis is your brain on vagner
>>122689662gladiators were twinkle-toed faggots; Fučík was based.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2O6aBBFJ9xY
>>122689664Thankfully with time it gets easier to rehabilitate a memed piece of music so that I can thoroughly enjoy The Planets without any pop culture or commercial usage getting in the way of the enjoyment (it also helps that I've always hated star wars). There's is SO MUCH in that work to explore and study from a theory-focused point of view and at the same time it's a readily enjoyable, often staggeringly beautiful work.>>122689664>I am curious what you might think of Hindemith's Symphony in B-flat if you've listened to it.It's.... cleverly composed for sure. Some themes are indeed modern in temperament and even memorable, but ultimately it feels a bit artificial and anachronistic. It sounds like it should've been composed about half a century earlier. Perfectly enjoyable, however. Maybe one of his better works.
>>122688093Nope. But I have thought about doing something similar. That being said nothing in my collection really stays for long if it's not a favorite recording.
>>122689831>ultimately it feels a bit artificial and anachronistic. It sounds like it should've been composed about half a century earlieryeah that's neoclassicism for ya
>>122688523I love these performances. Especially the D934, which is magical. Such an underrated piece, easily belongs in the same breath as D960 and D956
>>122689831>There's is SO MUCH in that work to explore and study from a theory-focused point of view and at the same time it's a readily enjoyable, often staggeringly beautiful work.Oh absolutely it's one of my all time favorites and I still listen to it fairly regularly. I enjoy all the movements but lately the madness of Uranus speaks to me. >ultimately [Symphony in B-flat] feels a bit artificialYeah I agree. I wouldn't even say it feels wholly original, there's a part in the first movement that sounds awfully derivative of the 4th mvmt opening of Brahms 3.. but maybe I'm just seeing things. Idk. I love Hindemith but sometimes I get a feeling he's throwing shit at a wall and seeing what sticks
What does classical think of John Dowland?
>>122689898>I get a feeling he's throwing shit at a wall and seeing what sticksSeems to me this was the main modus operandi of that breed of composers from the first half of the 20th century that couldn't choose between being staunch anti-modernists such as Pfitzner or Langgaard, or being part of the avant-garde as exemplified by Schönberg or later on Bartók, and so tried to compromise in that neoclassical "new wine in old bottles" philosophy that sounds better on paper and mostly only produces forgettable results (which are, strangely enough, often extremely overrated, like Stravinsky's post-1919, pre-serialist works)>>122689933Very few people here it seems listen to anything composed before 1710 but also I doubt anyone here would have anyting ill to say about him. He wrote some immortal tunes for the lute, and was not just an inspiration but outright quoted by a lot of composers even down to modern times.
>>122689599>>122689696I would take literally any major composer's musical opinion over yours. Yes, get over it. There's really two interpretations here: 1. Wagner is a monkey brained retard who somehow managed to compose music, and 2. what he means by melody is not just any tune. Schubert compacts all of his feeling into a single, very well defined melodic shape. Schumann doesn't do that. That's why Schubert's melodies are world famous, and why no one knows Schumann's melodies unless they specifically study them. This isn't rocket science.
>>122689977>BartókAny recommendations? I love his hungarian peasant songs for piano, the concerto for orchestra, divertimento for strings. Enamored, even. What next?
>>122690029no one cares
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLV1Fze-x8Y
>>122689696>demonstrably wrong opinionImagine being this dumb. Do you also think Mozart and Beethoven are equally great melodists?
>>122690034I'm biased: He's one of my favourite composers of all time. His early work is redolent of Debussy and early Schönberg before the atonal shift. In that sense he reminds me of the early works of the british composers we've been talking about: Something between impressionism, expressionism, and that transitional sound between the purely post-romantic and the explicitly modern. But anything after 1915 is entirely his. I'd say his two ballets, the violin sonatas No 1&2, all of his string quartets and concertos (three piano concertos, two violin concertos,one for viola, one for orchestra and one for two pianos and percussion), his sole piano sonata, and of course his music for strings, percussion & celesta are all a must-listen
>>122690138>music for strings, percussion & celestaOh yes I did leave that one out.I think Bartók is absolutely marvelous; I will most certainly be listening to your other recommendations. There's something so charming and beautiful to his compositions. It never feels crass, to me. Just great stuff. Thanks, anon.
What's with retards thinking they know better than composers? If I read Michelangelo say something about the art of sculpture, even if it sounded odd to me, I would still take it seriously and try to understand why he said it. I'm sure my understanding of sculpture would improve as a result of the effort. Because he's a great sculptor and I'm not.
>>122690179I think his secret is that he managed to infuse his own language with the very unique vibrance and rhythms of hungarian folk, creating something new and exciting yet coherent and self-contained, instead of simply adapting or imitating folk tunes as most composers of the time (and the late 19th century) did. Assuredly he did go the normal route for a while, adapting folk tunes and imitating that musical language, but it feels like that was all a necessary preparation for him to transform his own (and the time's) melodic, harmonic, rhythmic identity, to filter and distill it through them into something wholly unique and his. But again, I am a fanboy and my opinions on him are biased.
>>122690237>argumentum ad verecundiam is the only rule I live by, and will never check how biased or arbitrary whatever authority I latch onto may be, because I am a good bitchand that's why you'll always be a dilettante, a tranny, and a clown
>>122690237The sisterposter genuinely thinks they know more about music than Wagner
>the wagnertrannies are sperging out again
>>122690410how dare you imply that Schumann is good haven't you heard that my daddy says he's not how DARE YOU
>>122690457That's not what anybody said. No one's insulting your favourite composer. Beethovenians can take criticism a lot easier than this.
>>122690509Schumann is not my favourite by a long shot. It's just hilarious how you keep defending the opinions of the retard who unironically said "in Schumann there is not a single melody" and then get mad when people call him out on it; yer da would be so proud of his cute li'l daughter
>>122690591I don't think you realise how stupid you sound when you think that Wagner somehow didn't understand the fundamental principles of classical music. That's literally what you're saying. It would require the most ridiculous suspension of disbelief. It's self-evident he meant 'melody' in a different way than you do.It's like you have an iq of 90.
>>122690310Every single judgement in art comes from the authorities of the past. Values in art exist because an original artist created them, and later art was built off of them. It is all footnotes to the greats. Of course a great artist can be wrong, but you should actually understand what they're saying before you dismiss it like a narcissistic little midwit.
>my papa is always right and hansome, it's self-evident>the first people to utter an opinion were right and everyone after that is wrong because they weren't there first, this is self-evident
Wagner is pretty retarded to be fair
>>122689097god forbid we don't talk about mediocrites like mahler or schubert for the 10 billionth time
>>122690684>he just made a new wagnersister meme because he lost the old oneKek.
Everyone on this general talks like a catty fag.
>>122690795>wah wah wahyeah I know>>122690814be quiet catty fag
>>122690814We are all cat girls here after all
>>122677675I keep thinking that's Chris Hedges from the catalog thumbnail
>>122689483only half the time
>>122690861literally who
>>122690081>proven wrong>tldr.giflike clockwork
>>122690814>he doesn't knowsomeone tell him girls
>>122690870the other half he was formally bound to firetruck
>>122690814*websiteftfy
>>122690884>lol I proved him wrong by repeating in a more verbose manner how blindly I am willing to follow arbitrary authoritylike trannywork
>>122690684If the 'first people' in this context are the founders of an artform, then they've implicitly defined what the criteria for a correct judgement about that art is, so of course they're right. If people partaking of that artform, without changing it, have an opinion which clashes with the founding principles, then of course they're wrong. From the very beginning to the very end an artform is defined above all by its great men, not invulnerable in their opinions but authorial nonetheless, and if you dismiss that authority then you have no basis for an interest in the artform.
who else do I check out if I like Josquin ockeghem de Lassus and de Victoria?
now playingstart of Piano Concerto No. 2 in F Major, Op. 102:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNKCyQOZ8mk&list=OLAK5uy_mIBUJmm9GHn2BTRTrevKw9XtWyaeug534&index=2start of Chamber Symphony No. 5 in A-Flat Major, Op. 118a (aka Chamber Symphony version of the String Quartet no. 10):https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpaBP8GQyyA&list=OLAK5uy_mIBUJmm9GHn2BTRTrevKw9XtWyaeug534&index=5https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_mIBUJmm9GHn2BTRTrevKw9XtWyaeug534
>>122690913Busnois
>>122690900>proven wrong>"transexuals!"like clockwork
>>122690914Is little Dmitri any good?
>>122690897No, people on /lit/ can actually have serious discussions without divulging into smarmy seething.
>>122690767To be *actually* fair, he wasn't at all retarded. Just ill-willed, disingenuous, envious, venomous, pointlessly hostile and an outright liar. But hey, vox wagneri vox dei amirite
>people on /lit/ can actually have serious discussions
>>122690945>ill-willed, disingenuous, envious, venomous, pointlessly hostile and an outright liarProve it.
>>122690964Everything he did to Bülow. And that was just the tip of the iceberg. Wagner was a genuinely terrible friend to have.
>proven wrong! proven wrong! if I keep saying it, it becomes true! proven wrong!
>>122690985He was in love with his friend's wife. Happens all the time. Doesn't make you a bad person.
>>122691003Being in love with your friend's wife is one thing, actually stealing her from your friend is another.
>>122690913des Prez and DuFay, for starters
>>122690934Fortunately not much technical skill is required for the 2nd Piano Concerto, and to my ears it is an exciting and enjoyable recording. Shame it's so short.
>>122691003You're a victim of abuse, aren't you>>122690964>>122680784
>refuses to write a single melody>dies without elaborating what did he mean by this?
>>122691011Sometimes love takes precedence over friendship, it's sad, but just a reality of life. It's a relatively minor flaw when compared with Beethoven driving his nephew to suicide. But I wouldn't consider either Wagner or Beethoven bad people, because I don't judge people according to petty social morality that reduces tragic circumstances to a should-and-shouldn't-have situation.
>>122691088he meant that Vagner has the most feminine penis of all
>>122691112>because I don't judge people according to petty social morality that reduces tragic circumstances to a should-and-shouldn't-have situation.
>>122690985>And that was just the tip of the iceberg. Wagner was a genuinely terrible friend to have.people always say stuff like this but never provide any evidence, it's like a boogeyman. "ohh, wagner was a bad person, he was a monster, he was so bad."like what?
>>122690944that was true 9 years ago and even then it was a half truth
>>122691136T.S. Eliot may have been Antisemitic, does that lower him in my eyes? Not at all, even if Antisemitism were the most horrible thing in the world, because I'm an adult. That's life, people might do or say things that would conventionally be called wrong, but it doesn't have to detract from their overall worth as a person.
>>122691188Would you feel the same if he was Jewish and hated white people?
>>122691268Yes.
4chan made me believe in white fragility
>>122691040That's just his musical opinion.
>>122690509>>122690650>>122690666>>122690911>>122690925>>122690964>>122691003>>122691112>>122691162>>122691188>>122691283ahem… thank you wagnersisters
The Mahler 6 reminds me a lot of the Brahms 4. No wonder I love it so much.
>>122691363illegal post
>>122690900>musical authority of a great composer>arbitraryI don't think you know what this word means.
>>122690884>>122691462wagnersister… we thank you
Scherzo -> Adante moderatoorAdante moderato -> Scherzofor Mahler 6
>>122691658scherzo andante obviously
I've run out of Bach organ pieces.
>>122691658It doesn't really matter to me, personally. I like performances that do both. The order argument mostly comes from the fact that Mahler had two printings of the score, one SA and the other with AS. The AS version came after he had done significant revisions to the score. Mahler *only* ever performed it as AS.Later, after Mahler's death, Rudolf Mengelberg -- the brother of Willem Mengelberg (Mahler's close associate and friend) -- had noticed the two scores with the differing inner movements. He then asked Alma Mahler which inner movement variant her husband intended to be performed, and she told Rudolf to do it SA. From there, Willem Mengelberg, who had previously performed it as AS, began to perform it as SA and everyone else followed. Rudolf's approaching Alma for clarity was arguably a mistake, since she is widely regarded as a poor source of information insofar as her husband's performing details were concerned. Later, in the 50s, the chief editor for Mahler's critical editions tried to get Alma to clarify her claims for SA, and she cited a performance of SA that Mahler gave in Amsterdam. The performance never happened however, so her claims were bogus. The "damage" had been done.. The majority of performances use SA, and I think collectively most people tend to prefer the cooldown with the beautiful Andante before the explosive finale, and the similarities between the first and second movements in that ordering are more apparent to the ear, making it feel more integrated. But I have heard AS performances that I've enjoyed, such as Mitropoulos' and Chailly's. Chailly especially takes the Scherzo at a wallop in a means to differntiate it from the first movement, lending it a more manic character that I think works quite well. Mahler did probably intend AS, as that was one of the changes he made during his revision, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's better.
>>122691874mahler was a neurotic who second-guessed his symphonies fairly often and was prone to hasty revisions. there’s no telling what he might have done to the 6th (or any other symphony) had he lived another decade or four. the fact is that scherzo > andante simply sounds better. the close motivic links between the first two movements are an obvious parallel to beethoven’s 9th, and the Eb major andante transitioning to the C minor introduction of the finale is far more coherent of a harmonic movement than an A minor scherzo moving to C minor. i have yet to see any arguments in favor of andante > scherzo from an actual musical standpoint, only historic faux-programmatic biographical obsession.
>>122691658Scherzo - AndanteFirst movement is a march into warSecond movement is the war properThird movement is the false moment of hope and respite (a calm before the storm)Fourth movement is the return of the chaos even mightier than before
>>122692068you really don’t need to resort to this sort of programmatic bullshit to justify something so simply evident in musical terms.
>>122692024Yeah, pretty much everyone is in agreement on the superior music qualities of the first ordering. from Webern to Adorno. Ultimately, Kubik's edition bothers me because he presents SA vs AS as mutually exclusive -- out of egotism -- when he could have easily just presented both and told the performers to do what they think is best. He did the same shit to the first symphony before everyone called him a retard for fucking up the third movement, and only then did he make his changes "optional" >>122692068Mahler would die of cringe from reading this
You guys should just write each others letters at the pace this general moves. It would be a nice personal touch to a message received in the same amount of time
>>122691874>>122692024>>122692068>>122691664Interesting, thanks.
>>122689341This is actually pretty great. Doubt I'll listen to it again over my usuals but first HIPish SMP I've liked.
>>122692146What makes you think I'm not doing both?
>>122692124Mahler wouldn've though it was badass as fuck upon reading it
>>122692177for some reason people who usually hate HIP tend to like Herreweghe as an exception. Seen it plenty of times before.
>>122692146This is what happens when you don't make it the Iannis Xenakis edition like the augers demanded
>>122692146Have you never used an internet forum before anon
>>122692751embarrassing>>122692774they are wrong, herreweghe is just as bad if not worse than gardiner or pinnock.
>>122691678https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoplbUOZQ8c&list=OLAK5uy_nCyk83JwH5FXt3XtSK5oLhYXHB7VXtpVk
>>122692872yeah I'm not big on Herreweghe either but somehow he pleases the crowd. If I were forced to pick from those 3 I'd pick Gardiner easily but he's still hardly my first choice for any recording.
>>122691016uh, Josquin IS des Prez. his name is Josquin des Prez
Who is the /classical/ equivalent to Metro Boomin?
>>122677727Being listenning to his Te Deum (Karajan's version) non stop. It's great
>>122677675Is Stockhausen considered classical?
>>122695045unfortunately
>>122695054I actually really enjoy it. He’s my go-to if I want to detach entirely and have no emotions
>>122695066this website is 18+
>>122695145H-hot
NEW THREAD>>122695232>>122695232>>122695232>>122695232
>>12269523825 posts before bump limit is a little excessive.
>>122695211retard>>122695476>expecting moderation from tranime chomos
