Niemann Editionhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adMg7dmTUUk [Embed]This thread is for the discussion of music in the Western (European) classical tradition, as well as classical instrument-playing.>How do I get into classical?This link has resources including audio courses, textbooks and selections of recordings to help you start to understand and appreciate classical music:https://rentry.org/classicalgenPreviously, on /classical/: >>128804350
HOW LOUD SHOULD IT BE??>100WagnerBerg>90-99BartokXenakisStravinskyBeethoven>80-89MozartShostakovichSchoenbergVivaldiVerdiMontiverdi>60-79ScelsiFerneyhoughWebernSchubertGesualdoSchumannMahlerBrucknerHaydn>40-59JSBachSchnittkeBrahmsSaint SaensDebussy>20-39RavelChopinBoulez>1-5FeldmanSatie>0CageNancarrowGriseyRileyPartLisztTchaikovsky
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sEf08rtl8oHoly shit. Greatest recording of Barcarolle op.60? Moiseiwitsch is on another fucking level. His rubato is just perfection. I am overwhelmed. If this isn't the single best thing ever put on the internet then I don't know what is
THE BEST KEYBOARD COMPOSERS OF ALL TIME>ELDER GOD TIERJ.S. Bach>GOD TIERCouperin>GREAT TIERScarlattiRameau>GOOD TIERPoulencScriabinSorabjiBrahmsSchubert>PASSABLE TIERByrdMozartHaydnFauré>MEH TIERBeethovenClementi>BAD TIERChopinRachmaninoffDebussySatie>SHIT TIEReveryone else
>>128827666Never really understood why people on the internet place Evangelion characters in random pictures. The show is psychologically strenuous and spiritually seething. It swallows the attention of the viewer. Now now gentlemen, let us stop this stupidity.
The eternal, uncontested, unequivocal big 4 of /music/. You either "get it" or you don't, but this is where humanity reached its peak intellectually and thus artistically. Empirically irrefutable!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hvaOvDOhsMhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbI71_XXbl0https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEDxZdDgSDEhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHmQGsbqNds
>>128827722cry about it. this is an anime website.
>>128827736stop posting romantislop
This world is so boring. So devoid of entertainment. Everything is ridiculous now. These last five years were devoid of culture. People are running out of ideas, out of source material, out of creativity, out of any kind of depth. The rising AI bubble will only serve to make things worse. The void which was filled by classical music is opening up again.
>>128827767>filtered by high IQ musicJoin your kind over at >>>/mu/, popslopperhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxu9Tx_c25M>>128827779We're returning to the dark ages. But luckily, we can still hear something from the golden age, we still have recordings of Hofmann and Rachmaninoff, makes life worth living
Classical music of the Classical music:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lH6H4ksPnc
>>128827736Scriabin is great but the rest are all söy numale-core.
>>128827856thank you popslopper, maybe try >>>/mu/ instead?
>>128827807>he thinks rachmanshitoff isn't the pop of classical musicLMAO
>>128827916thank you clueless popslopper
>>128827937my position is 100% objectively correct. rachmanshitoff's music is neoromanticist populist garbage manufactured for plebeians, the definition of l'art pompier in music.
>>128827967thank you low IQ popslopper mongrel
Rachmaninoff performed by Rachmaninoff is the Classical music of the Classical musichttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5vFFr6-IWM&list=OLAK5uy_mJanaqu4ViJZdhktHnmfDFtx96Zjnrs0I&index=1
Classical music of the Classical musichttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFKx8n2sfCM
>>128826805tru
Rate Zappa's musical taste:>In fact Zappa has always been dismissive of the aesthetic of most mainstream classical music, finding it too predictable. "lf you know where the melody is going to go, how long it takes to get there and what it's going to do when it gets there, then why bother to listen to it," he says. He makes an exception of Bach, but only if it's played by Glenn Gould, because he "twists the stuff so that at least there's a question mark inserted into the composition". Gould's "mutation" renders it tolerable for Zappa to listen to. His real love is for the unpredictable, dissonant European music of our own century, as composed by Igor Stravinsky, Anton Webern and above all-Edgard Varese. Varese's lonisation, which the young Zappa discovered when he was a boy in the mid-fifties, is a difficult. Rhythmically asymmetric work, and has remained a source of inspiration ever since.>JON WINOKUR - When you say "that kind of music," do you include Mozart?>FRANK ZAPPA - I don't usually listen to Mozart. I like Stravinsky, Varese, Webern, Schoenberg, Bartok, Takemitsu, Messien, Penderecki...>JON WINOKUR - How about John Cage?>FRANK ZAPPA - I have many John Cage recordings, but I find his writing more interesting than his music.>JON WINOKUR - Do you like rap?>FRANK ZAPPA - If it wasn't for rap there would be no poetry in America. I think we went directly from Walt Whitman to Ice-T.
>>128828057It's safe to say his IQ was double digit judging from this interview alone. Low functioning brains like rap and talk crap.
>>128828057RYMsister/10but good
>>128828001It's time to start living in the 21st century, hisssisterhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdDnIy0mHsI&list=OLAK5uy_nyjNOfRJtfWP9VwwLLgz-zIllB-pd_M3E&index=1
>>128827671I disagree but I see the logic. Except for Poulenc, that's a weird one.
Is Penderecki good?
>>128828057>i listen to Stravinsky, Varese, Webern, Schoenberg, Bartok, Takemitsu, Messien, Penderecki... the list goes on.....>proceeds to make garbagehmmm
>>128828123Through the lens of rock, the influence and similarity is quite clear I think. Of course Zappa added in other influences and ideas.
Tippett's piano sonatas finally clickedhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZUgktAAbks
>comments on classical/romantic piano music:>"it's so beautiful" "sublime" "hearttwarming" "this is life">comments on modernist and later piano music:>"it's like [idea/non-musical metaphor]"hmm
>comments on modernist and later piano music:>"this is horror movie music lol"quite telling on the quality of such "music"
>>128828200
>>128828274people are so fucking gay
Ockeghem was claimed by Webern, along with his younger Flemish contemporary Obrecht, as a source of profound inspiration. It is a basic concision which they share, but of course Ockeghem's finely spun melodies are far out of proportion to Webern's, and this is certainly the aspect of his music which appeals most directly to the modern listener.
>>128828353The melodies seem to go on forever, never losing their sense of invention or identity, and so it is this fundamental melodic integrity which can be seen as the driving force behind Ockeghem's contrapuntal prowess. This is one way in which he differs from other great contrapuntists in Western history, as Ockeghem never lets technique obscure his material, and such brilliant material it is! By adopting different phrasings in difference voices, and employing deceptive or partial cadences, Ockeghem allows his melodies to continue unimpeded by the structural design of the music. In that sense, they contribute to the architecture while at the same time being buoyed by it.
>>128828376It is only too clear that Ockeghem had mastered the idea of "never-ending melody" long before it became a rallying cry. Of course it is precisely the ambivalent cadences and essential lack of climaxes which make Ockeghem's masses so difficult to wrap one's mind around, and then it is the continuously spun legato line which makes them physically daunting. The latter is, however, more benefit than fault, as they do not require any superhuman breathing, but rather subtle and perilously gained insights into the nuances of phrasing. For anyone obsessed with the finest details of phrasing, Ockeghem's music provides a reservoir of seemingly infinite depth. Wrestle with it for a while, and anything else seems either nonsense or child's play.
>>128828097 That is just "classical music". When discusing " Classical music of the classical music", only the finest can apply. Rachmaninoff's and Medtner's pianism is as intricate relative to average pianism as classical music is to pop music. Ergo this is the classical of classical, the highest, most refined and sophisticated music available on earth, if you can't into classical of classical, might as well just listen to pop >>>/mu/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61MiiIVTXQo
>i NEED to listen to music that sounds like coming from a shit tubewhy are classitrannies like this
>>128828494>t.filtered by real clsssical musicMight as well blast poop music >>>/mu/
What's your favorite piece and why, lads?
>>128828542like my man here >>128828512 , i dont care what it is really, as long as it comes from a real shit tube and sounds like total crap, thats all i need
>>128827636Best recording of Eugène Ysaÿe - Sonata No. 3?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oc-j4ftH2X4
>The English pianist Ian Pace describes Sorabji's music as that of "a massive ego thoroughly unaware of its crushing banality.";[191] The music critic Andrew Clements calls Sorabji "just another 20th-century English eccentric ... whose talent never matched [his] musical ambition."[192] The music journalist Max Harrison, in his review of Rapoport's book Sorabji: A Critical Celebration, heavily criticised Sorabji's compositions, piano playing, music criticism and personal conduct and implied that "nobody cared except a few close friends." I'm not really familiar with these authorities, and it doesn't prove anything, but those are assessment are consistent with what I have heard of his music.
>>128828722>pianist monkeys>allowed to voice their "opinions"why was this allowed
>>128828542Hard to pick just one, but if I had to, Chopin's 4th ballade would be my choice. It is the most perfect piece of art from the very first note to the last F minor chord. There is not a single dull, out of place measure yet it's as emotionally and expressivelly diverse as it can possibly be, and that's something so rare and exceptional that it can only exist in single movement works such as the ballade.
>>128828542Parsifal. It's what the poster above me is saying about Chopin's Ballade but genuinely true. So large, so perfectly constructed, Wagner at his most musically advanced and diverse, and not a second of music that isn't beautiful and perfect with the whole.
>128829136>poster above me is saying about Chopin's Ballade but genuinely true.Except it is genuinely true of the Ballade, yet not even true of the Parsifal overture
Sibelius' claim to revolution comes not from making the tonal center unstable (which he did, both polytonally and modally, notably in the Fourth, Sixth, and Seventh symphonies), but in his total obliteration of form. Schoenberg latched himself to form and motif as the structure of his works; Bartok did so by creating tonal centers of gravity that didn't rely on standard tonality, and the folk rhythms of Hungary and the Balkans. Szymanowski drifted to folk rhythms of Poland, Stravinsky to just about everything under the sun, but early on he drifted to repetition characteristic of Russian folk music. Ravel loved his dances; Debussy made great use of the major triad, even if it wasn't used to indicate a precise tonal center. Every work must have a precedent, something for the ears to hear and understand as the basis. The basis for Sibelius was the tonal center and the general sound of a piece. The Fifth Symphony seems to concatenate entire sections into one and in one instance it overlays two separate tempos up against one another. The Sixth is semi-structured in typical form of a symphony, but the forms of those movements is subject to severe speculation. The Seventh turns the entire structure of a symphony on its head.It's easy to deny the modernism of Sibelius because it is not obvious. But study reveals the work of an unrelenting modernist that was hiding just beneath the facade of late Romanticism. Sibelius is also a master of rhythm and form, as well of modality. He's a great "quiet" innovator. Perhaps one reason Sibelius has attracted both the praise and the ire of critics is that in each of his seven symphonies he approached the basic problems of form, tonality, and architecture in unique, individual ways. On the one hand, his symphonic (and tonal) creativity was novel, while others thought that music should be taking a different route.
>>128829381There are things in Sibelius's symphonies that music had never done before, new kinds of sounds at the outer limits of orchestral possibility. At one pole of his imagination are the evocations of epic landscapes, as in the unforgettable big tunes at the end of the Second or Fifth. At the other, there's the microscopic detail of his orchestration, the subtlety and shimmer of his string-writing-- as if Sibelius had taken the lens of his musical imagination and zoomed in on individual pine needles in the vast forests of his Finnish homeland.The quarter-century journey from the hyper-romantic four movements of the First, written on the cusp of the 20th century, to the convention-smashing single-movement of the Seventh, is one of the most astonishing stories in the history of music. Sibelius started his symphonic life in the throes of a love affair with the Russian and German Romantics, like Tchaikovsky and Bruckner, and ended it by opening up a new way of thinking about musical space and time. His symphonies didn't just brilliantly capture the ghostliness of the Finnish landscape-- they were also way ahead of their time.Sibelius's later symphonies plunge into a darker, interior world, above all with the agonised dissonances of the Fourth. While it's true the Fifth ends with another big tune, a majestic horn melody that Sibelius conjured after seeing a flock of swans in flight, the piece also contains some of the strangest textures in the orchestral repertoire: shimmers, tremors, and shades. The avant-garde experiments of György Ligeti and Iannis Xenakis are simply extensions of what Sibelius was up to in the likes of the Fifth. Sibelius was such a brilliant creator, we are still trying to find out what he really did.
>>128829389Sibelius progressively stripped away formal markers of sonata form in his work and, instead of contrasting multiple themes, focused on the idea of continuously evolving cells and fragments culminating in a grand statement. His later works are remarkable for their sense of unbroken development, progressing by means of thematic permutations and derivations. The completeness and organic feel of this synthesis has prompted some to suggest that Sibelius began his works with a finished statement and worked backwards, although analyses showing these predominantly three- and four-note cells and melodic fragments as they are developed and expanded into the larger "themes" effectively prove the opposite.Symphony No. 7 in C major was his last published symphony. Completed in 1924, it is notable for having only one movement. It has been described as "completely original in form, subtle in its handling of tempi, individual in its treatment of key and wholly organic in growth". Tapiola, Sibelius's last major orchestral work, was premiered on 26 December 1926. It is inspired by Tapio, a forest spirit from the Kalevala. To quote the American critic Alex Ross, it "turned out to be Sibelius's most severe and concentrated musical statement." Even more emphatically, the composer and biographer Cecil Gray asserts: "Even if Sibelius had written nothing else, this one work would entitle him to a place among the greatest masters of all time.
The Apex of Art.The Brightest of Baritones.The Caster of Comfort.The Dionysus of Delusions.The Elater of Ecstasy.The Forth-Bringer of Fantastic-Fantasies.The Grandest of Giants.The Height of Heroism.The Inventor of Ideas.The Juggler of Jubilation.The Knight of Knowledge.The Love of Listeners.The Master of Music.The Nirvana of Nobles.The Oasis of Optimists.The Poisoner of Peons.The Quester of Quixotic.The Rattler of Romance.The Symbol of Serenity.The Tactful of Tranquility.The Up-lifter of Unbeaten.The Visionary of Vibrance.The W.The X-Factor of Xenophiles.The Yay of Youths.The Zing of Zion.Wagner.
In Meistersinger's harmonies, one hears the echoes of Bach's intricate counterpoint, as if the ghostly specter of the Baroque master had momentarily forsaken the organ in favor of the opera house.Richard Wagner once said of Johann Sebastian Bach’s music: “That made me what I am. My unending melody is predestined in it.” In Die Meistersinger von Nürnberg, Wagner demonstrated to post-Tristan sceptics his mastery of traditional musical forms. Sonorous chorales, an overture which Wagner described as 'applied Bach', a fugally-inspired toccata, an unforgettable quintet and counterpoint worthy of Bach all feature in this magnificent score celebrating the marriage of inspiration and tradition.The whole of Die Meistersinger— shaping itself before our very ears — is Wagner's answer to his critics, a song offered them to meet their specifications, filled with all the things they demanded and found wanting in his other work: diatonic structures, counterpoint, singable tunes, ensembles, folk dances worthy of Weber and chorales worthy of Bach.
>In Paris in 1858, Wagner listened to Berlioz reading the libretto of Les Troyens with a mounting anxiety, so that "I really found myself wishing that I might never see him again since, in the end, to be so utterly unable to help a friend can only become unbearably painful. The text is clearly the pinnacle of his misfortune, which nothing now can surpass.">Six years earlier, in a letter to Liszt (Wagner considered Berlioz, Liszt and himself the three most important composers of the day), he had written: "If ever a musician needed a poet, it is Berlioz, and it is his misfortune that he always adapts his poet to his own musical whim, arranging now Shakespeare, now Goethe, to suit his own purpose. He needs a poet to fill him through and through, a poet who is driven by ecstasy to violate him, and who is to him what man is to woman." But the poet Wagner had in mind for this job of violating Berlioz was Wagner himself. He thought that Berlioz ought to set the story of Wieland the Smith, a German legend of which he, Wagner, had written the prose outline.
Bach created the Cosmic Egg of music in the void, a noble blueprint for his successors;Beethoven made music flesh by bringing nature into accordance with human expression and by his art molded a Holy Grail around the Egg, awaiting insemination;Wagner with his seed of Poetry erected the Divine Cock of Music to join with its body in sacramental union with the Grail before the awed masses and complete the project of true art for all time;W.
>>128829423what about Mozart
Classical music. The highest expressive possibility of the musical medium. Since man first came to be, his progress up the ladder to the celestial spheres of musical accomplishment has been slow and halting. Here a man with a talent for fugues, here another with a talent for the instrumental drama of the sonata allegro form. The light of a single genius should be lost to the abyss of time. But then—a man appeared who would unite vision, craft, and form in the heretofore disparate domains of music and poetry, a man whose sublime expression of a drama both theatrical and musical would etch itself into the firmament, proclaiming music's everlasting completion. This man was Richard Wagner. Here, as yet more initiates are absorbed by his unceasing light, the history of that pilgrimage continues...W.
>>128829505Mozart Erected the Form of Music so that Wagner could provide the Orgasm.
>>128828057It's crazy how so many people from the midcentury talk like pod people. Oh, you have peculiar taste, do you? You don't like music the classical and Romantic eras? It's as though music between 1750 and 1900 doesn't exist to you? Wow, that is very unusual. You do like Bach but only in very very objective austere manner you understand, yes, yes, of course. And then Webern, Varese, Stravinsky? Marvellous! I have never met such a person.
>>128829507He was severely deficient in all of them.
>>128829583Wagner raped your mind.
>>128829179Chopin is children's music compared with Wagner. Get some taste.
>>128828274not only am I unable to recognize how good the music is, it'll stunt my ability to know if I'm alive or dead!? no thank you!
>How can this schema of “’The Ring’ as the drama of Wotan’s ‘kenotic’ salvation of Alberich” be filled out and made more substantial?>How do we go beyond this mere clue of the double nomenclature “Lichtalberich / Schwarzalberich”?>Well, I think that this schema begins to be filled out right from the opening scene of the opening opera. Alberich does indeed present himself in this scene not under the aspect of a villain but under the aspect of a wretch. Yhis figure of the “wretch” plays a key role in the drama of “kenotic salvation” as I have presented it.>Perhaps the portrait of “the wretch” in the canon of Western culture is Isaiah 53: "For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.">I have repeatedly said that this marks the point in the history of soteriological thought at which such static, rather than merely pragmatic, aspects of the “man needy of salvation” as physical ugliness enter into the salvific equation. It is by no means just by chance that Isaiah 53 is the only Old Testament passage cited – and indeed one of the most substantial scriptural citations generally – in what I have presented as the really definitive synoptic statement of the Judaeo-Christian salvific problematic: Borges’s “Three Versions of Judas”.>Now Alberich, in the opening scene of “Das Rheingold”, very definitely presents himself under this aspect – as the ugly man rather than as the evil / sinful man, as the wretch rather than the villain. If this scene moves me and speaks to me, it does so as a staging of “the incel experience”: the experience of an irremediably ugly man—a man so genetically ugly that no “maxxing” is going to change his destiny—wooing “Stacies” reserved for “Chad” alone.
>>128829642thank you popslopper
I only listen to recordings by performers who are currently alive
>>128829660>This certainly, still speaking very personally, is what seals my experience of “The Ring” as a whole as a drama of kenotic salvation. For me, very much in the continuity of the Isaiah passage, it is the ugly, hopelessly needy “incel” that is the real “ideal type” of “the one who is to be saved” that corresponds to “the one who saves”. This incel is the modern type of the Bethesda paralytic.>A passage from Kafka’s diaries sums it up: "I don’t believe people exist whose inner plight resembles mine; still, it is possible for me to imagine such people. But that the secret raven forever flaps about their heads as it does about mine, even to imagine that is impossible." The incel condition drives into this terrible solitude. There is a shamefulness in being unable to satisfy one’s basic sexual needs that there is not, for example, in being unable to satisfy one’s basic nutritive needs. One may die, indeed, in the latter case and not in the former. But there is a dignity in dying of starvation that there is not in lingering on as a “sexual famelic”. In the latter there is a special wretchedness that links up to the great figures envisaged in the soteriological tradition.>It might be retorted, of course, that the opening scene of “Das Rheingold” is precisely a portrayal of the transformation of the wretch into the villain—or, in other words, the “wretch”, the “incel”. is dispatched and dispensed with in this opening scene after all. Does not, indeed, Alberich renounce his identity as “the ugly man vainly seeking the attention of beauty”? This is the meaning of the famous Entsagungsmotiv which here becomes one of the first Motivs sounding in “The Ring”. Woglinde sings it first:>Nur wer der Minne Macht entsagt,>nur wer der Liebe Lust verjagt,>nur der erzielt sich den Zauber,>zum Reif zu zwingen das Gold
>>128829677so stupid
>>128829688>And Alberich sings it again a few lines later>Der Welt Erbe>gewänn’ ich zu eigen durch dich?>Erzwäng’ ich nicht Liebe,>doch listig erzwäng’ ich mir Lust?>Alberich substitutes then, for the “incel”’s pathetic hunger for sexual love, another hunger to whose satisfaction he does have a path: namely, the hunger for gold and the power that gold brings with it. Clearly, though, this formula whereby the figure of the wretch as incel is banished from the “Ring” problematic has its problems and its internal tensions. More, indeed, for the non-German-speaker than for the German speaker. The English speaker, in particular, will be struck and puzzled by the substitution evoked in the last two lines, which seems to be the replacement of a thing with something else close to identical with it: Liebe / Lust. “Love” and “lust” are, in English, very closely affined. >But this problem seems to be solved and dissolved by the fact that in German the meaning of “Lust” is much broader. The German “Lust” covers the whole spectrum of human pleasures and enjoyments. The act of Alberich in the opening scene of “The Ring”, then, appears in this light as a very familiar one. Anyone who has been himself that particular “wretch” whose wretchedness consists in the radical inability to acquire the creaturely comfort of sexual intercourse will have had said to him many times:>“Things will work out for you if you just stop obsessing about women and concentrate on your career, on making money; when you are successful and rich the women will just fall naturally into your lap”.>There is, however, yet another twist. I would argue that much in “The Ring” suggests that the “Renunciation” evoked here through the “renunciation motif” is essentially a failed renunciation. The “swapping out” of one thing for another that it seems to thematize is in fact the thematization of a painful impossibility because there is no translatability of the two things:
>>128829675Calling someone a popslopper while holding the banner of YouTube's most listened to classical composer is a good bit.
now playing, more contemporary classicalstart of Daugherty: Metropolis Symphonyhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWKFH_D2jqM&list=OLAK5uy_m_gVdsPbDOTiVUMAPulZZlz8Il9h0kFQc&index=2Daugherty: Bizarrohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRbJ5CkGCbw&list=OLAK5uy_m_gVdsPbDOTiVUMAPulZZlz8Il9h0kFQc&index=6https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_m_gVdsPbDOTiVUMAPulZZlz8Il9h0kFQc>Michael Daugherty is one of a talented and eclectic group of American composers who have successfully worked in both rock and classical music styles. His compositions celebrate American popular culture--his latest opera, Jackie O, is based on the life of you know who. His largest and most ambitious work to date is this suite of pieces based on characters and events from the Superman comic strip. Rumor has it that the original title was supposed to be "Superman" Symphony, but DC Comics wouldn't give permission to use the name. In any case, the music is jazzy, snazzy, faster than a speeding bullet, more powerful than a locomotive, able to ... you get the picture. --David HurwitzGonna go through most of this guy's recorded discography.And as always, any and all recommendations for modern and contemporary composers are appreciated!
>>128829708>The sexual love of woman is indispensable and unsubstitutable – and any idea we have that we “have found a substitute for it” is a delusion. We have here to do with a prefiguration of Houellebecq’s idea, expounded in his first novel “Extension du Domaine de la Lutte”:>Décidément, me disais-je, dans nos sociétés, le sexe représente bel et bien un second système de différenciation tout à fait indépendant de l’argent ; et il se comporte comme un système de différenciation au moins aussi impitoyable.>In this light, the whole plot-point of Entsagung takes on a certain phantom, misdirective quality. Alberich does not carry out “the decisive act of renunciation” that he seems to carry out. He does not become a power-and-money-focused “villain” and thereby push the wretch and “incel” that he began as out of the drama of the “Ring” as soon as he had entered it. Rather, the wretch/incel lingers as central to “The Ring”.>We might read as a clue to this one of the most-remarked-on “problems” of “The Ring”. The “Renunciation motif” sounds out, as every critic recognizes, at the most dramatically anomalous moments. It sounds out, for example, at the moment of Siegmund’s seizing of Notung:>Heiligster Minne hoechste Not>Sehnender Liebe sehrende Not>What can this possibly mean? Sigmund is indeed proof of the persistence of the wretch deep on into “The Ring” and far beyond this opening scene. But long before the appearance of Siegmund in the second opera, this first work of the tetralogy already provides rich illustration of how the renunciation of love is a fundamentally flawed, “impossible” renunciation.
>>128829718thanks for your input popslopper
>>128829759Wagner raped your mind.
>>128829763thank you popslopper
>>128829759Oh, don't worry, I "get" it.
Did you know Saint-Saens has piano etudes? :Ohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goY8Q_nfZWUhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDH5CYeFLZk
>>128829775excellet input popslopper
The Wagnersister is falseflagging to make Chopin look bad.
>>128829794excellent input popslopper
>>128829743try Alois Hába
The Chopincel is falseflagging to make Wagner look bad.
>>128829743>I began composing my Metropolis Symphony in 1988, inspired by the celebration in Cleveland of the fiftieth anniversary of Superman's first appearance in the comics. When I completed the score in 1993, I dedicated it to the conductor David Zinman, who had encouraged me to compose the work, and to the Baltimore Symphony Orchestra. The Metropolis Symphony evokes an American mythology that I discovered as an avid reader of comic books in the fifties and sixties.>Each movement of the symphony-which may be performed separately-is a musical response to the myth of Superman. I have used Superman as a compositional metaphor in order to create an independent musical world that appeals to the imagination. The symphony is a rigorously structured, non-programmatic work, expressing the energies, ambiguities, paradoxes, and wit of American popular culture. Like Charles Ives, whose music recalls small-town America early in our century, I draw on my eclectic musical background to reflect on late-twentieth-century urban America. Through complex orchestration, timbral exploration, and rhythmic polyphony, I combine the idioms of jazz, rock, and funk with symphonic and avant-garde composition. holy basedhttps://www.fabermusic.com/music/metropolis-symphony-2671
>>128829794No, the Chopinfag is falseflagging to make Wagner look bad.
>>128829810ty>12-tone composer:O
>>128829794no falseflagging needed, he looks bad on his own.
>>128829816>>128829833excellent input popsloppers
okay so, i'm not sure if anyone else will understand this but for me, the key to my transition was a weird combination of wagnerian harmony and nietzsche. let me explain.so first off, i've always been drawn to classical music, and wagner's operas in particular. there's something about the way the music builds and swells and crashes that just resonates with me on a deep level. i used to listen to the overture to "tristan und isolde" on repeat for hours at a time, and it always made me feel like i was on the brink of something monumental.and then, i started reading nietzsche. his ideas about the will to power, about overcoming oneself, about creating oneself - they all spoke to me in a way that i couldn't quite explain. it was like he was describing a way of being that i had always been striving towards, but could never quite put into words.and then, one day, it all just clicked for me. i realized that if i was going to transition, if i was going to become the person i had always known i was meant to be, i would need to harness that same will to power that nietzsche talked about. i would need to overcome my fears and doubts and insecurities, and create the version of myself that i wanted to be.it wasn't easy, of course. there were a lot of obstacles and setbacks along the way. but every time i felt like giving up, i would put on some wagner and let the music remind me of the power that i had within me. and every time i needed a philosophical boost, i would turn to nietzsche and let his words inspire me to keep going.and now, here i am, fully transitioned and living my best life. i still listen to wagner and read nietzsche, and they still give me that same sense of power and inspiration that they always have. i don't know if everyone will find the same kind of motivation in these things that i did, but for me, they were the keys to realizing the sufficiency of will necessary to self-overcome and transition.
have you noticed how the composers who had sex wrote much much better music that the composers who did not have sex?>mozarthad sex, wrote good music>wagnerhad sex, wrote good music>bachhad sex, wrote good music>strausshad sex,wrote good music>beethovendid not have sex, shit music>mahlerdid not have sex, shit music>schoenbergdid not have sex, shit music>sorabjidid not have sex, shit music>handeldid not have sex, shit music>chopindid not have sex, shit music
People call Die Meistersinger the Bach opera, and although I like the name, is it really fitting?The main reason it's called that is that, more than being set in Nuremberg and being a testament to German art history, it utilises traditional musical forms such as the counterpoint in the overture. But what else is really similar to Bach in it? Does anyone know? I can only think of the use of organ/church music in the very first scene.Meistersinger seems like the least studied opera of Wagner's because it's one of the least groundbreaking, and I think this is a negative.
For today's performance of Bach's Well-Tempered Clavier, we return to the young pianist Aaron Pilsan, whose Book 2 was released just this year.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgZqrQM-grw&list=OLAK5uy_kTFThToU2cJNfI8ogObQ8swsoYD8cYWAk&index=27>Aaron Pilsan completes his recording of the Well-Tempered Clavier, five years after the first volume was praised by critics for it's ardent, accurate and fluid interpretation. Twenty years lie between the two volumes; whilst the first is better known, 'the second book is more playful, but also more accomplished. It goes further harmonically and also demonstrates extraordinary harmonic invention with original and often exotic harmonies. The best example of what differentiates the two books is the fugue in D sharp minor in the second book, a piece whose boldness and harmonic originality never ceases to enthral and astonish me,' says the Austrian pianist, who again demonstrates his fascination for the composer: 'What I love most about Bach's music is that he expresses everything that goes to make up our lives, but in perfect order.'I just wanna say his recording of Book 1 is incredible, love at first listen, for his WTC already ranks among my favorites, and will be performances I return to for the rest of my life, joining the other masters of this work such as Richter, Hewitt, Poblocka, Crochet, and Koroliov. I highly recommend it to all fans of Bach, solo piano music, and classical in general. Check it out.
>>128829888Bach was a Romantic in spirit, and indeed they call Meistersinger the Bach opera because it’s applied Bach. Wagner was the greatest contrapuntist of the Romantic era and Meistersinger is the opera Bach wished he wrote. As Wagner said of Bach’s music, “That made me what I am. My unending melody is predestined in it.”
>Bruckner was an IncelUhmm bros? I dont know how to feel about this, I only listen to music composed by sexhavers like daddy Wagner
I wish I could go back in time and prevent opera from ever being invented, so the composers could instead use all of their musical ideas, artistic inspiration, and diligent effort on symphonies, orchestral music, or some other classical form entirely.
I wish I could go back in time and prevent Brahmscuckery from ever being invented, so the composers could instead use all of their musical ideas, artistic inspiration, and diligent effort on following in the footsteps of Richard Wagner, Master of Music and Poetry, to produce Music Dramas instead of working in dead instrumental forms.
Listening to Chopin, fuck this music touches me in the most horny way possible, I imagine myself listening to 24 preludes played by Nikolai Lugansky (the patrician choice) as I masturbate in a cemetery dressed all in black as my dead polish gf lies there on the grass. Chopin is based fuck people who hate Poland.
>>128829927Proof positive, everybody.When you listen to Chopin, you rape corpses.When you listen to Wagner, you rape heaven.W.
Wagner has to be the most rhythmically boring composer of all time, Brahms was eons ahead Wagner in rhythm but they will tell you that Brahms was the "conservative".
Lugansky's Chopinhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjqT_AkaXrM&list=OLAK5uy_nKk31e9Tsx0vKDeJxsOR_1RJkw1dMybyc&index=1
>>128829961The melodic concentration in Tristan is inseparable from the rhythmic vitality of the motives. Wagner is not often thought of as a rhythmic innovator or even as a particularly rhythmic composer. That is partly because our ideas of rhythm have been shaped by the external ostinato rhythms of popular music, so that we have to a certain extent lost sight of the origins of rhythm in a melodic line. Wagner is actually one of the great rhythmists. This is so in spite and because of the fact that he hardly ever uses percussion as a rhythm-generating device.Whereas Beethoven’s rhythmic motives have a pronounced downbeat emphasis (as in the first movements of the violin concerto, the third piano concerto, and the Fifth Symphony), in Tristan the emphasis is almost invariably off the beat or cancelled by a syncopation. Indeed, it is no exaggeration to say that Wagner’s treatment of rhythm in Tristan has the same subversive effect as his treatment of melody and harmony.
speaking of Lugansky and Wagner, check this out, where the two meet:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TApEdMQKjvY&list=OLAK5uy_ny5oGDLCx8mRknDqST4M7DWkFIF6fn_Sg&index=1https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nkI_PKdgTQ&list=OLAK5uy_ny5oGDLCx8mRknDqST4M7DWkFIF6fn_Sg&index=8>Wagner's genius is often associated with his unique feeling for orchestration. Yet the transcriptions and paraphrases for piano solo recorded here lay bare the beauty and boldness of his harmonic language, with an evocative power unrivalled at the time. Nikolai Lugansky, at once narrator and virtuoso, immerses us in a world where the heroes of legend tell us - and with what loftiness of spirit! - of the torments and aspirations of humanity.I'd be curious to know what both the Chopin and Wagnersisters alike think about it. Sounds great to me.
>I remember Boulez coming to a concert of Bruckner’s Eighth which I conducted in Paris, and he said oh, this music is so simplistic. And I said, but the slow movement should provide interest for you with rhythms which go two against three. Oh, he said, that was done much earlier and much better by Wagner in the second act of Tristan. And with that sentence, he finished off Bruckner.
>>128829992But Boulez himself later recorded the piece! Wonderfully too, I might add. He was just flexing his snobbish impulse here.
>>128829987Will listen tomorrow and reply. Thanks for the rec.
If one were asked to name one musician who came closest to composing without human flaw, I suppose general consensus would choose Richard Wagner.
>>128830009<3
Wherefore does the enchanted forest sing its secrets to me? It tells me now that I am the king of the once and future world. The lark trills, the eagle screams, and the giggling nymphs bathe in the supernaturally blue waters of the Oracular Pool. I step forward to receive their vision, and lo! Ancient dragons, fairy castles! The yodelling bard walks a weary road, calling out for knights of faith to hear his melancholy and redeem the tragic renunciate with a sword of justice! The whole world is lost and reconquered before my very eyes.Alas, it is over too soon! This is but a foretaste of what awaits the pilgrim soul when he surrenders to the genius of Richard Wagner.https://youtu.be/iXUjuxF2oIY
Rachmaninoffhttps://youtu.be/ycK1mZiZmo0
now playingstart of Beethoven: Piano Sonata No. 8 in C Minor, Op. 13 "Pathétique"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akAYsnc2eFE&list=OLAK5uy_l0G4ysfxJaw5g1r-J3khIyjGjikSN1VTM&index=15start of Beethoven: Piano Sonata No. 5 in C Minor, Op. 10 No. 1https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3C5tmeorTU&list=OLAK5uy_l0G4ysfxJaw5g1r-J3khIyjGjikSN1VTM&index=18start of Beethoven: Piano Sonata No. 6 in F Major, Op. 10 No. 2https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAzx5Y8jIxk&list=OLAK5uy_l0G4ysfxJaw5g1r-J3khIyjGjikSN1VTM&index=21start of Beethoven: Piano Sonata No. 7 in D Major, Op. 10 No. 3https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0EYIuJ_1sI&list=OLAK5uy_l0G4ysfxJaw5g1r-J3khIyjGjikSN1VTM&index=23https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_l0G4ysfxJaw5g1r-J3khIyjGjikSN1VTMOne of my all-time favorite cycles of the piano sonatas.
Come now to the fairy circle!Come now and dance with phantasy and phantoms!Come now to the bosom of the genius!Richard Wagner!He is the Venusberg and the release from the Venusberg.He is sex and he is renunciation.He is the Orgasm and the Chastity.There is no need for another.Find your vril.W.https://youtu.be/9GhGuEW4k5w
>>128830466Why do some Wagner fans on discord and here always look down on me for listening to Solti's recordings?There's nothing wrong with Solti
Baxhttps://youtu.be/nE9m_Brs040
Who's the better conductor plus had the better output, George Szell or Sir Georg Solti?
>>128830622Szell overall but Solti has some great recordings too. Great Tannhäuser, great Richard Strauss.
Wagner wrote more than anyone else, therefore he must have been the greatest.
>>128827736embarrassing
now playingstart of Schumann: Piano Trio No. 1 in D Minor, Op. 63https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D40-WUYLugE&list=OLAK5uy_kdcfHc1xX33sCPJy3vYdSWmI5b_8vXdug&index=2start of Schumann: Piano Trio No. 2 in F, Op. 80www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkWtYxQPxpw&list=OLAK5uy_kdcfHc1xX33sCPJy3vYdSWmI5b_8vXdug&index=5start of Schumann: Piano Trio No. 3 in G Minor, Op. 110https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCpTEKxp3Hg&list=OLAK5uy_kdcfHc1xX33sCPJy3vYdSWmI5b_8vXdug&index=9https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_kdcfHc1xX33sCPJy3vYdSWmI5b_8vXdugI love listening to these pieces whenever I'm planned to go out and about, they have a real sense of verve, inspiring you with exuberance. As opposed to, say, Brahms' or Rachmaninoff's piano trios, which are best at the end of the day, in my opinion.
>>128828001Rachmaninoff is seen as the 'Nickelback' of composers in the classical music world. Never admit you enjoy him if you don't want to be insulted and ripped apart. Even the rock crowd has a bit of humor towards the noob who likes Nickelback. The classical music world is a lot more ruthless.
Kicking the day off with Berg's Violin Concerto.
>>128830772This only supports Rachmaninoff's greatness to be honest, in that he was able to compose wonderful art music that is also easily enjoyable and emotionally transparent to all.
>>128830800are you implying that Nickelback composed works of genius
>>128830798>Tetzlaff/Ticciati performing Brahms+BergNeat, I'll give that one a try. Good shout.
>>128830806No because they failed at the first thing I said. They were, however, good at what they did, which was writing mindless, appealing pop.
>>128830820why would you interpret the analogy to mean otherwise then
If Rachmaninoff is good, then the standards of musical quality as richness of relationships, articulation, unity in manifoldness, diversity in oneness, which perennate from Wagner to Schoenberg, are obsolete.
>>128830843>Look mom I bought a dictionary!
>>128830839I'm saying Rachmaninoff was able to do the massively appealing and emotionally transparent thing Nickelback did while also composing fantastic art music, which is highly impressive and difficult. Those who look down on Rachmaninoff wrongly disdain the first two traits which causes them to be blind to the third.
>>128830859but it's implied in the analogy to a bad rock band that rach did not in fact compose fantastic music
>>128830856>not knowing what that's riffing on>>>/mu/
>>128830856All this is betrayed by Rachmaninoff to a nature which isn’t natural, but rather a shabby photography of his parents' home. He has his part in the wearing-out in art music, even though he is easily bested by industrial light music. But in his symphonies such destruction is masked as creation. Its effect is dangerous.
>>128830694>>128830772>>128830806>>128830839>>128830983thank you posloppers
Getting into aristocratic incest. What are some relevant "core texts" in the classical canon besides Die Walküre?
No one but Rachmaninoff understands the burden of my misery. I imagine he felt deep and noble feelings as he composed the last music of the Western tradition before it fell into degeneracy. The most perfect soul whom we did not deserve.
>In the arts, there are genuinely great reactionary authors and composers, for example Tolkien and Rachmaninoff. That’s probably what reactionary art looks like at its best. Rachmaninoff continued not just the style, but stubbornly stuck to reproducing the feel of the world he had loved around 1900-1910, and lost completely in 1917. If you want to hear and feel not just the court of the Tsar, but of the international European aristocracy of around that time, you can see it in Rachmaninoff. This appears most clearly in his second sonata, which is just very high class lounge music, or in the Etude-Tableau opus 39 number 5, a flight dream of fin de siecle glamorous decadence remembered and exalted to otherworldliness by a man in exile from it. It was real and vital in him even after 1917 because it was animated by a nostalgia for something he had known and loved, and remembered dearly as something lost. A similar nostalgia and sense of loss I am told is throughout Tolkien’s books. But even he engaged with modern styles and feels in his later music, and so did a reactionary author like Tolkien. And in any case, the European aristocracy around 1900 was already modern and changed by modernity, and this is reflected in his music from the beginning. It’s the reason his music is an appropriate setting to the decades later Old Hollywood and in fact to almost any half-glamorous scene in Western modern life up until around the time suits stopped being worn as universal style in polite society.
When the singing starts, the libretto continues from here:LANDGRAVEA fearful wrong has been committed.With dissembling mask, the accursedson of sin came crawling to us.We cast you out from among us: with usyou may not tarry; our hearth is stained with shamethrough you, and heaven itself looks threateninglyupon this roof, which has sheltered you too long already.However, a way to deliverance from eternal damnationstands open before you: rejecting you,I point it out to you. Make use of it for your salvation!Gathered together on my landsis a great concourse of pilgrim penitents.The older ones have gone on before already,the younger are still resting in the valley.Trifling though their transgressions be,their hearts will give them no rest;to still the devout distress of repentancethey are marching towards Rome for the feast of grace.LANDGRAVE. SINGERS. KNIGHTSYou must go along with them on pilgrimageto the city of clemency and grace,in the dust there to fall prostrateand atone for your sin!Before him who pronounces the sentenceof God, cast yourself down;but nevermore return,if you do not receive his blessing! Though our anger has been forced to soften,because an angel checked it,this sword will despatch you,if you linger in sin and disgrace!ELISABETHLet him journey to thee,Thou God of clemency and grace!Forgive him, who has fallen so low,the guilt of his sin!For him only will I pray,may my life be prayer;grant that he may see Thy light,before he is lost in night!In joyful trepidation,let a sacrifice be dedicated to Thee!Take, oh, take my life:I no longer call it mine!... And so on. Just a very beautiful moment.If you want to check it with the German, or read on, here's the libretto with English and German:http://www.murashev.com/opera/Tannh%C3%A4user_libretto_English_GermanWagner is so infinitely sublime.
>>128829743>And as always, any and all recommendations for modern and contemporary composers are appreciated!Dallapiccola, PetrassiTry those
>>128831228Tannhäuser is sometimes ignored or dismissed because of its relative immaturity compared to later works on similar themes, but I personally found it a great entry point for Wagner. The very stark and palpable contrast between the chaste pilgrim chorale and the erotic and ravishing Venusberg music is very generative and stimulating and makes for a clear expression of the ideas, musical and philosophical, that you'll find Wagner preoccupied with in later works.
