Broader demands for peace that Putin listed included Ukraine’s recognition of Crimea as part of Russia, keeping the country’s nonnuclear status, restricting its military force and protecting the interests of the Russian-speaking population. All of these should be part of “fundamental international agreements,” and all Western sanctions against Russia should be lifted, Putin said.

“We’re urging to turn this tragic page of history and to begin restoring, step-by-step, the unity between Russia and Ukraine and in Europe in general,” he said.

Putin’s remarks, made to a group of somber Foreign Ministry officials and some senior lawmakers, represented a rare occasion in which he clearly laid out his conditions for ending the war in Ukraine, but it didn’t include any new demands. The Kremlin has said before that Kyiv should recognize its territorial gains and drop its bid to join NATO.

Zelenskyy, in Italy for the G7 meeting, said Putin's proposal was not new and was in the form of an “ultimatum,” comparing it to actions by Adolf Hitler in seizing territory that led to World War II.

“What Putin demands is to give them a part of our territories, those occupied and not occupied, talking about several regions of our country,” he said.

Ukraine’s Foreign Ministry called Putin’s plan “manipulative,” “absurd” and designed to “mislead the international community, undermine diplomatic efforts aimed at achieving a just peace, and split the unity of the world majority around the goals and principles of the U.N. Charter.”

Besides seeking to join NATO, Ukraine wants Russian forces out of its territory, including the Crimean Peninsula that was illegally annexed in 2014; the restoration of Ukraine’s territorial integrity; and that Russia be held accountable for war crimes and for Moscow to pay reparations to Kyiv.

Russia launched its a full-scale invasion in February 2022. After Ukrainian forces thwarted a Russian drive to the capital, much of the fighting has focused in the south and east, where Moscow illegally annexed four regions, although it doesn’t fully control any of them.

Zelenskyy adviser Mykhailo Podolyak said on social media there was nothing new from Putin and that the Russian leader “voiced only the ‘standard aggressor’s set,’ which has been heard many times already.”

“There is no novelty in this, no real peace proposals and no desire to end the war. But there is a desire not to pay for this war and to continue it in new formats. It’s all a complete sham,” Podolyak wrote on X.

U.S. Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin said at NATO headquarters in Brussels that Putin “has illegally occupied sovereign Ukrainian territory. He is not in any position to dictate to Ukraine what they must do to bring about a peace.”

Austin added that Putin “started this war with no provocation. He could end it today if he chose to do that.”

NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg added that “this is not a peace proposal. This is a proposal of more aggression, more occupation, and it demonstrates in a way that that Russia’s aim is to control Ukraine.”

Putin insisted that Kyiv should withdraw from all four annexed regions entirely and essentially cede them to Moscow within their administrative borders. In Zaporizhzhia in the southeast, Russia still doesn’t control the region’s administrative capital with a pre-war population of about 700,000; in the neighboring Kherson region, Moscow withdrew from its biggest city and capital of the same name in November 2022.

Putin said if “Kyiv and Western capitals” reject his offer, “it is their business, their political and moral responsibility for continuing the bloodshed.”

The Kremlin has repeatedly aired its readiness for peace talks with Kyiv and blamed the West for undermining its efforts to end the conflict.

Putin went further Friday and claimed his troops never intended to storm Ukraine’s capital, Kyiv, even though they approached the city.

“In essence, it was nothing other than an operation to force the Ukrainian regime to peace. The troops were there to push the Ukrainian side to negotiate, to try and find an acceptable solution,” he said.

Moscow withdrew from Kyiv in March 2022 and described it a goodwill gesture as peace talks between the two began, but the pullback took place amid fierce Ukrainian resistance that significantly slowed down Russia’s battlefield advances.

Putin also claimed that in that same month, he told a foreign official he wasn’t ruling out withdrawing forces from the Kherson and Zaporizhzhia regions and ceding occupied parts of them back to Ukraine, as long as Kyiv allowed Russia to have a “strong land connection” to Crimea.

He said the official planned on bringing that proposal to Kyiv — which Moscow “welcomed,” as it generally welcomed “attempts to find a peaceful resolution of the conflict.” But the Kremlin then annexed both regions, along with the Donetsk and Luhansk provinces, citing the results of sham “referendums” it staged there. Putin mentioned those and said, “The matter is closed forever and is no longer up for discussion.”

In Friday’s fighting, Russian defenses shot down 87 Ukrainian drones, the Defense Ministry in Moscow said, most of them launched against the Rostov region, home to Russia’s southern military command, but no deaths or damage were reported in one of the biggest Ukrainian drone barrages of the war.

In Russia’s Belgorod region on the border, part of a residential building collapsed in the town of Shebekino after Ukrainian shelling, Belgorod Gov. Vyacheslav Gladkov said. Three people were injured, he said.

Ukraine’s military has been on the back foot in recent months, with its troops outnumbered by the Kremlin’s forces and running short of ammunition and weaponry due to delays in promised Western military aid.

Russia has battered Ukraine with drones, especially its power grid. It fired 14 missiles and 17 Shahed drones overnight, Ukraine’s air force said. Air defense systems downed all the drones as well as seven missiles, it said.

The attacks injured six people in the Donetsk region, where residential buildings were hit, officials said.

A Russian drone struck a bus near the village of Esman in the northern Sumy region, injuring three women. Authorities say 20 passengers were in the bus at the time.

Also Friday, Russia returned to Ukraine the bodies of 254 of its soldiers, Kyiv said. Once identified, the bodies will be returned to relatives, according to Ukraine’s Coordination Headquarters for the Treatment of Prisoners of War.
___

You'd have to be retarded to take that offer.

>Let me keep the land I stole from you. I promise I won't attack you(until I'm ready to do so again)

Putin has no credibility, and this isn't a compromise but a surrender.

>>1304145
He doesn't just want to keep the land he stole, he also wants Ukraine to simply hand over all the extra land in the half-occupied provinces he's claimed to have annexed, which would also conveniently move the current border from a fortified river into indefensible Ukrainian territory.

Really makes you think.

>>1304136
Sounds like a good offer to me. Ukraines current government isn't even legitimate, so I'm not sure how they could even accept it tho

>>1304150
To be fair they had already given up Crimea before the 2014 war started.

>>1304151
>Ukraines current government isn't even legitimate
Highly debatable, but the Russian puppet government before this current Ukrainian government was even more illegitimate.

>>1304145
Better an uneasy peace than a suicidal war for ukraine
>>1304150
Ukraine is just as delusional amd demands the entirety of these territories too

shouldn't china be speaking for russia at this point

>>1304160
It's not really delusion when it's your country and you want to maintain sovereignty over it.
Those people do not want to be part of Russia

>>1304145
>>1304150
>Meanwhile Trump just came out and said he'd cut off all aid to Ukraine.
For a guy who claims he's not putin's puppet, he sure loves to do stuff in Putin's interest.

>>1304196
Trump is likely being blackmailed by Putin

>>1304214
i bet they have some great hotel footage

>>1304136
>Why should we appease Shitler 2.0?
Unlike Chamberlain, Churchill didn't appease the inferior subhuman Shitler. Gee: I wonder why you didn't - or daren't - go to the 80th anniversary of D-Day, Putain...?!
The Great Patriotic War, and what started it: the annexation of Sudetenland. Did NATO annex Crimea, Putain...?!
>Putain really is an inferior subhuman like Shitler
Those who forget the past really are doomed to repeat it, I guess...!

>>1304218
Putin wishes he was Hitler or Stalin. He isn't half as charismatic.

>>1304236
>He isn't half as charismatic
...and like Hitler, he isn't half human. And like that Austrian, he doesn't even have a quarter of the brain to realize that.

>>1304160
>Ukraine is just as delusional amd demands the entirety of these territories too
Not really delusional to demand your territory not be annexed by a foreign country. It's not like Ukraine has anything to lose by demanding all their shit back. This war isn't going to end with some sort of compromise deal that both sides can live with. Either it ends on Ukraine's terms and they'll obviously demand their shit back or it ends on Russia's terms and what Ukraine demands won't matter.

>>1304242
Remember when the Russians thought they were going to take Kviv within 48 hours after the war began?

>>1304137
>We’re urging to turn this tragic page of history and to begin restoring, step-by-step, the unity between Russia and Ukraine and in Europe in general,” he said.
Damn.

>>1304289
Jesus Christ was a jewish liberal SJW.

>a fictional character in a Big Book of Hearsay
I can see Zelenskyy: he exists.
I can see Ramses II: worshipped as a god, his DNA-analysable body does his existence case no harm whatsoever.
A rainbow - an easily explainable phenomenon - doesn't physically exist, but can be seen by everyone in the area that has just had a rain shower followed by sunlight.
In Genshin Impact, I can see Zhongli, Venti, Raiden Shogun etc: Gods.
Checkmate, Christains. (*Tips Trilby*)

>>1304214
>>1304216
I don't think Trump is physically capable of shame, and he certainly doesn't give a shit about being caught doing something illegal. I reckon they're just birds of a shit-feather.

>>1304145
Pretty sure this is all just PR, with the Ukraine peace summit happening he wants to signal to his supporters, that Russia is always open for peace and it's the rotten west that is warmongering all the time.
And I'm afraid it works on some people
>>1304160
>Better an uneasy peace
It would just be 2014 all over again though. Wait for the west to lose interest, build up an army again and go for round 3 at his convenience.
>>1304242
If the war drags out for long enough there might be some sort of compromise, but the way I see it both sides are still miles away from going back on any of their demands.
>>1304196
When was that?
I haven't followed US politics for a while but I vaguely remember that Trump and/or some of the people close to him got a secret service briefing about what a Ukrainian defeat would mean for the US and they somewhat went back on their "we don't care about them" attitude

>>1304307
So?

>>1304136

Ukraine really needs to cut a deal with Russia exchanging oil and natural gas for letting Putin keep the Donbas and Crimea, areas that were never historically or ethnically Ukrainian anyways but other then that, Ukraine absolutely should become a part of the EU and NATO.

>>1304364
Hello Ivan how are you tonight?

>>1304364
>that were never historically or ethnically Ukrainian anyways
Doesn't really matter. Those territories became Ukrainian in 1991 and Russia recognized them as such, so they can and should fuck off.

>>1304364
>areas that were never historically or ethnically Ukrainian anyways
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transfer_of_Crimea_in_the_Soviet_Union
>In 1954, the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the Soviet Union transferred the Crimean Oblast from the Russian SFSR to the Ukrainian SSR.
well that was easy to debunk

>>1304295
>>1304289
...and like your fictional character, your post doesn't exist >>1304289 . The gods in Genshin Impact exist more than your fictional character in a Big Book of Hearsay ever will, and the reason why is simple: we can SEE them.
Zelenskyy is King. Putain will never be Tsar or Stalin. Check and Fucking Mate, Christains (*Tips Trilby Again*)

>>1304365

I'm a 2nd generation Polish-American with Ukrainians in my family tree and I want an independent Ukraine that's part of the EU and NATO but there's no denying that this war is going nowhere and at this point, continues to be prolonged (at the expense of Ukrainian blood) not so much to liberate Ukrainian territory but in an effort by Western globalists to overthrown Putin.

A settlement would be in Ukraine's best interest.

>>1304366
>>1304367

You haven't "debunked" anything. The 1954 transfer of Crimea to Ukraine was a purely internal Soviet administrative move when nobody ever expected there would be an independent Ukraine, it had nothing to do with history or ethnicity and the fact remains that Ukrainians have always been a small minority there.

The Donbas is a trickier matter but the reality is that the region was captured and absorbed by the Russian Empire and half or more of the population has always Russian and nowadays, is overwhelmingly so.

>>1304372
>You haven't "debunked" anything
i just gave you the legal and historical basis for crimea being ukraine, and you only think it doesn't matter because you're a shill larping as a ukrainian

>>1304372
>What happened in Vietnam: that scene on the roof of the US Embassy decades ago
>Today, veterans welcomed in Vietnam. NVidia investing heavily in that country
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States%E2%80%93Vietnam_relations
'Vietnam is now considered to be a potential ally of the United States, especially in the geopolitical context of the territorial disputes in the South China Sea and in the containment of Chinese expansionism. Vietnam, one of the countries with the most favorable public opinion regarding the U.S., is the only communist country to have such a favorable view'
>Putain's own Vietnam
Taking the L would be in Russia's best interest. It ultimately did America no harm re. Vietnam. Your retarded so-called 'Pride' worth so many of your own nation's lives, Putain...?!

>>1304372
>A settlement would be in Ukraine's best interest
And what grantees would Ukraine have that the whole thing doesn't repeat for a third time in 10 years?
Not to mention that (according to a recent poll) only a tiny fraction of the Ukrainian population currently supports any sort of truce or cease fire. Accepting one would be political suicide for anyone who'd consider it.
>The 1954 transfer of Crimea to Ukraine was a purely internal Soviet administrative move when nobody ever expected there would be an independent Ukraine
Doesn't matter though. In 1991 it became part of independent Ukraine and Russia affirmed that it would respect those borders. Doesn't matter who it belonged to some time in the past, Russia has as little claim to those regions as Germany has to its 1914 borders for example.

>>1304151
Fuck off Ivan

>accept a peace treaty with the country who broke their last peace treaty with you
>tell them to fuck off
Its an easy choice, and anyone telling you otherwise is either a russian shill or retard

>>1304375

I'm not denying the legal basis for Ukraine's claims, just that they're spilling all kinda blood for something that was never really "Ukrainian" in the first place and at this point, the war is being push for the benefit of Western elitists.

>>1304376

Ukraine can't win without Western aid and if it looks like Putin and his cronies can't be pushed out of power, (and that's not likely) the West will lose interest and leave Ukraine swinging in the wind without EU or NATO membership.

>>1304377

EU and NATO membership, which won't happen as long as this unwinnable and costly war keeps dragging on.

>>1304383
you can stop false flagging now

>>1304383
>unwinnable
only if you assume that the west will let Ukraine lose
>it looks like Putin and his cronies can't be pushed out of power, (and that's not likely) the West will lose interest and leave Ukraine swinging
This isn't as much about Russia as it is about preserving the status quo ante bellum, that wars of aggression for landgrabs are not worth it.
>they're spilling all kinda blood for something that was never really "Ukrainian" in the first place
The Oblasts Russia has claimed to annex all had Ukrainians (people identifying as Ukrainian) calling them their home. What more do you need?
>>1304151
>isn't even legitimate
What makes you say so? It's a democratically elected government.

>le drumpf
pootin doesnt give a shit

>>1304383
>I'm not denying the legal basis for Ukraine's claims, just that they're spilling all kinda blood for something that was never really "Ukrainian" in the first place
Except when they voted to be a part of Ukraine when Ukraine was formed. Russia's spilling a bunch of blood for something that was never really "Russian" in the first place and they have no claim to. How about bitching about them not ending the war?
>and at this point, the war is being push for the benefit of Western elitists.
Pretty sure Ukraine would want war no matter what interests were arming them. But yes, the west is interested in seeing Russia lose. As is much of the world because everyone hates wars of territorial expansion. Seriously, there are like 200 countries. How many countries recognize Russia's claims in Ukraine?

If Russia wants to annex somewhere, they should try Belarus.

>which won't happen as long as this unwinnable and costly war keeps dragging on.
Russia is welcome to propose a peace deal that involves allowing Ukraine to join NATO. Til then, Ukraine has zero reason to agree to peace cause without that, Russia will just invade again in a few years after building back up or as soon as NATO forces try to move in.

>>1304388
>What makes you say so? It's a democratically elected government.
He's still buttmad over the Putin puppet getting ousted even though that didn't even lead into the current administration in Ukraine.

Or else he's one of those dipshit "you didn't count the votes in the Russian occupied areas" nutters as if that's an argument for anything but purging the Russians from Ukraine and ensuring all the deported Ukrainians are returned in any peace deal forced on Russia.

>>1304157
>Highly debatable
They had a coup in 2014.

>>1304388
>only if you assume that the west will let Ukraine lose
Unless the west starts sending troops into Ukraine, it's going to lose. All of the fighting aged Ukrainian men are dead and/or have fled.

>>1304383
>Taking the L
...and not only in Putain's best interest, it seems. US ultimately won re. Vietnam: close diplomatic ties, as well as trade: both win.
Pride will doom that which forgot about Sudetenland's annexation: but then, those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it: what basically started the Great Patriotic War, which you should remember o ye that was but a mere KGB officer. Did NATO annex Crimea, Putain?
There's a question for you, and your little bot too...!

>>1304395
>They had a coup in 2014.
And free and fair elections in 2014 and again in 2019. Non-democratic transfers of power don't turn governments illegitimate in perpetuity, dipshit.

>>1304396
>All of the fighting aged Ukrainian men are dead and/or have fled.
Then you have nothing to worry about. I'm sure what's left of your midcentury tanks, your navy, and your 4.5th gen aircrafts will be fine.

There's definitely no problem with that North Korean ammo you're firing either.

>>1304396
>Unless the west starts sending troops into Ukraine
Britain confirmed they have troops in Ukraine. Enjoy your L.

>>1304404
>it's another state-sactioned pro-war rhetoric episode
NATO entering into a war with a nuclear superpower isn't a good thing, retard-kun, regardless of where you stand on the war.

>>1304406
>NATO entering into a war with a nuclear superpower isn't a good thing
For the nuclear "superpower" (Also, lmao, 2nd strongest army in Ukraine...well 3rd at this point).

And yes, the Russian military being turned to ash is a good thing. Cry moar.

>>1304412
>For the nuclear "superpower"
They have more nuclear warheads than the United States.
>the Russian military being turned to ash is a good thing
WW3 is not a good thing, retard.

>>1304420
>They have more nuclear warheads than the United States.
It doesn't take very many.
>WW3 is not a good thing
Russia destroying itself is a good thing for the world.

>>1304404
>Britain confirmed they have troops in Ukraine. Enjoy your L.
This is false and you know it's false.

>>1304422
It isn't false.

>>1304388
> > unwinnable
> only if you assume that the west will let Ukraine lose

POPULATION:
Ukraine = 33,300,000 (36th globally)
Russia = 147,000,000 (9th globally)

GDP:
Ukraine = $189 - $516 billion / per capita $5.6k - $15.4K
Russia = $2.0 - $5.4 trillion / per capita $14.4K - $38.3K

Even with Western money, weapons and supplies (which took a lot arm twisting) Ukraine ain't winning, the war has effectively been at a stand-still for two years now and Russia can afford to play defense while Ukraine _can't_ afford to keep carrying out failed offenses.

>>1304392
>Except when they voted to be a part of Ukraine when Ukraine was formed.

There are barely any Ukrainians left in the Donbas (and those are pro-Russian) and none in Crimea, it doesn't matter how the Ukrainian people vote, they can't win and the sooner they cut a deal, the sooner they'll get in the EU and NATO.

>>1304437
Source? (inb4 your ass)

>>1304438
>war depopulates region
>refugees in many countries
>one side wonders where all the people went
kek

>>1304439
Google. Check it.

>>1304136
>Kyiv

>>1304396
Factually incorrect. Ukrainians younger than 25 are currently exempt from mobilization and that age was higher until recently. Ukraine's current personnel problems mostly stem from delayed mobilization, that's why they had to send support units into trenches and have many undertrained or understaffed units at the moment.
Which is still bad, mind you, but easier to fix then having no people left.
>>1304404
>>1304422
You're both dumb. NATO does have some troops in Ukraine for training and there are options to send in more troops for internal security, as advisors and other support roles..maybe as SAM operators if they're prepared for the risks associated with that. This way they can still relieve some Ukrainian troops to do jobs that NATO currently can't for political reasons.
We're a long ways away from NATO soldiers in the trenches shooting at Russians.
>>1304421
>Russia destroying itself is a good thing for the world.
You're equally as retarded as Russian pensioners calling for Nukes to be dropped on Washington. Grow up
>>1304438
>population
I'm pretty sure either side will run out of equipment or the will to fight long before they run out of men. Wars were there are literally no men left afterwards, like the War of the Triple Alliance are quite rare
>GDP
Doesn't matter, I don't think anyone but the most deranged pro-Ukraine Twitter retards would ever claim Ukraine can win on their own without western support
>Russia can afford to play defense
But they aren't. They keep fighting very costly offensives and even by (reasonable) pro Russian estimates the first depots will run out in a year or two.
The west can easily outproduce Russia, it's only currently lacking the political will to do so, but is taking ever so small steps towards ramping up production.
I agree with you, there will be a tipping point at which it will be too late (because producing equipment and training troops takes time) but at the moment Ukraine still (keyword still) has a chance

>>1304447
You have a problem with Endonyms?

>>1304236
This. If he was half as competent as Hitler, this war would have unironically only lasted 2 weeks

>>1304441
I did which is why I'm saying you're wrong.
>>1304450
Oh good it looks like Ivan sent for backup. Hello Oleg how are you today?

>>1304464
Which part of my post makes you think I'm a Russian shill anon?
I make no secret of having a pro Ukrainian position (and wouldn't be surprised if I did more to support Ukraine outside the Internet then you) but if you're offended by the fact that I'm not deluding myself into being a blind cheerleader for Ukraine then maybe that's a you-problem

>>1304471
It was the part where you repeat the same tired Russian talking points no one else repeats outside of Komsomolskaya Pravda.

>>1304471
Everything you post is like a speech from Russian propaganda. Putin is weak and not liked in Russia. His army is weak and underfunded. His iron grip is slipping and this war is his biggest embarrassment. He has to annex that territory or admit he failed to invade a tiny country because of his weakness. He will never admit that so he must get Ukraine to accept turning over their land, he is too weak to absorb a defeat this size.

>>1304474
>Everything you post is like a speech from Russian propaganda.
Says the guy who's posts are like a speech from Ukrainian propaganda.

(You're all the same- fucking slav trash)

>>1304480
>drone strikes your oil facilities
Ok Oleg

>>1304484
How far did you guys advance backward today?

>>1304488
All the way to Kviv, which Russia will surely take in the next 48 hours, at least according to RT.

>>1304474
Care to quote something specific? Are you sure you're replying to the correct post?
>>1304472
Which ones exactly?

>>1304490
When you guys lose Kharkov, how long will it take you to declare it strategically insignificant?

>>1304491
>maybe as SAM operators if they're prepared for the risks associated with that.
False
>while Ukraine _can't_ afford to keep carrying out failed offenses.
Misleading
>You're equally as retarded as Russian pensioners calling for Nukes to be dropped on Washington. Grow up
Misleading
>I'm pretty sure either side will run out of equipment or the will to fight long before they run out of men.
False
>But they aren't.
False

>>1304493
>ukiespam
[multiple citations needed]

>>1304492
Kharkov is literally rubble already. Go ahead and waste more resources fighting to take over abandoned dilapidated buildings.

>>1304495
There it is, there's the cope

>If you enemy captures your cities, you win

>>1304496
If the enemy destroys your cities and then pretends like it's a victory to capture the rubble, then they deserve to get laughed at by the rest of the world like what's happening right now.

>>1304497
They're getting laughed at and you're dead

I think most people would rather be laughed at

>>1304495
>major highway and railway infrastructure taken over allowing enemy to quickly move troops to the front
>muh buildings
Okay then

>>1304498
But I'm not dead. The people who lived there moved away years ago. Russia continues to fight a war they said would be over within a single month back in 2022. That's called "losing".

>>1304500
>drone strikes your convoy
oops

>>1304503
>captures your city
Oops

>>1304504
Enjoy your rubble

>>1304504
A village 20km outside of it you mean. It's funny how you're literally here being a Russia shill

>>1304507
Yea the mask came off quickly didn't it

>>1304506
>>1304507
>>1304508
>[ukieshill noises intensify]

>>1304511
I'm pretty sure the Ukrainians are too busy kicking the people who pay you your rupees out of their country to post on this dead board

>>1304516
>kicking the people who pay you your rupees out of their country
>losing cities, about to lose Kharkov
Pick one anon. Also I'm sorry you think anyone who doesn't buy the pro-ukie propaganda is a Russian

>>1304523
not him but if you're not a Russian then you're lobbying for Russian citizenship harder than Steven Segal.

>>1304523
>about to lose
how long are they going to "about to lose"?

>>1304526
>>1304527
You need to practice your English better Pytor, you no speaka the gooda ingles

>>1304531
whatever you say projecting faggot. keep begging ukraine to give up

>>1304532
You need to use capital letters at the beginning of all sentences, and punctuation at the end of every sentence and not just in between them, Pyotr

>>1304534
i'll be enjoying the end of my weekend now, this is your last rupee from me. goodbye anon

>>1304535
>he learned to stop replying and fishing for the last word
:')

>>1304536
Is "he" in the room now?

>>1304493
>>maybe as SAM operators if they're prepared for the risks associated with that.
>False
In what sense? In the current situation (that can obviously change) NATO troops fighting Russian troops directly (in any official capacity) is highly unlikely.
Sending over SAM operators is something that I see as theoretically possible, the only two risks that NATO would need contingencies for are
>what would Russia do if those troops shoot down a manned Russian aircraft?
>what should the response be if Russia attacks those SAM sites?
I'm open for discussion if you have anything constructive to say about this though
>>while Ukraine _can't_ afford to keep carrying out failed offenses.
>Misleading
That's a quote from a post I'm refuting, anon. But I do agree with that parts AT THE MOMENT Ukraine can't afford any offensives due to delayed/lackluster western support and delayed Ukrainian mobilization.
>>You're equally as retarded as Russian pensioners calling for Nukes to be dropped on Washington. Grow up
>Misleading
A nuclear war would be suicidal for everyone involved, that's why Russia's nuclear dick waving are mostly hollow threats and that's why I called the anon (you?) who, unless I misunderstood, that Russia being nuked would be a good thing, a retard
>>I'm pretty sure either side will run out of equipment or the will to fight long before they run out of men.
>False
What makes you come to that conclusion? Again, there is very little precedent that a country will fight literally to the last man. From memory even Nazi Germany had about 60% of their population left in 1945.
>>But they aren't.
>False
Russia currently has the strategic initiative and is on the offensive on multiple fronts. They are slow and costly offensives that take little ground and incur heavy casualties, but saying that Russia is on the defensive simply isn't true.

>>1304523
>about to lose Kharkov
Not even pro-Russian sources claim that, are you high? Russia never had the necessary troop concentration up there to make it all the way to Kahrkiv or Sumy. It's at best to establish a buffer zone for Belgorod, get Kharkiv back into artillery range and bind some Ukrainian troops and at worst just a PR stunt.

>>1304538
Spoke too soon I guess

>>1304541
>In what sense?
> theoretically possible
You answered yourself here.
>I'm open for discussion if you have anything constructive to say about this though
Russia already shot down an airliner in 2014 so I'm not sure what you're asking. You mean will piloted Russian planes get shot down at a greater frequency than now? Probably.
>But I do agree with that parts AT THE MOMENT Ukraine can't afford any offensives
Watch a video showing the waxing and waning of the offenses like the tides. The point is the lines are roughly in the same general area they were 2 years ago.
>A nuclear war would be suicidal for everyone involved,
I agree that Putin's dick waving is impotent
>What makes you come to that conclusion?
Russia is already using DPRK, African, and Indian mercenaries. Also I think you are vastly underestimating how much surplus military gear NATO / specifically the US have stockpiled. The US defense industry isn't going to let their cash cow go away due to peacniks in Congress.

>>1304544
>You answered yourself here.
Did you ever have a conversation with another human before? Two anons were arguing about NATO having troops in Ukraine, I've said that they only have them in a limited capacity and pointed out realistic future possibilities for more troops. Now you're giving me shit for said possibility only being theoretical? Well no fucking shit, they are by definition.
>I'm not sure what you're asking
I'm asking what possibilities for NATO troops in Ukraine you see since from your posts I can barely discern your stance on the topic. Or I guess more specifically I was asking if you had any constructive criticism about my statement beyond "it's only theoretically possible"
>The point is the lines are roughly in the same general area they were 2 years ago
That's not true and it's sentiments like these that cause Ukraine to not receive their much needed supplies from the west.
It was lack/delay of western supplies that caused the Offensive around Tokmak to be so lackluster and it was the lack of western supply (among other things) that brought about the current situation where Ukraine is clearly on the backfoot at the front.
>Also I think you are vastly underestimating how much surplus military gear NATO / specifically the US have stockpiled
Well none of that is worth a damn, if the US isn't willing to send it, do you see my point? Biden is constantly holding back aid and I'm sick and tired of it.

>>1304548
The rest of your post is angry boomer talk but the point about the US being willing to send it is irrelevant. If Ukraine asks for 20 F-16s then Congress has a shit fit. But if Belgium orders 20 F-16s from the US then the US doesn't ask what Belgium is going to do with them and Congress always approves. The same applies to patriot missiles and javelins. Also >>1303832

>>1304438
>it doesn't matter how the Ukrainian people vote
Glad we sorted out that you're just evil.
>they can't win
I don't see Russia winning. We're how many years into this war? Which side do you think will lose support for the war first, the side BEING INVADED or the side doing the invading?

Look, if you, as a Russian, want to end the war, all you have to do is win. Go ahead.
>and the sooner they cut a deal, the sooner they'll get in the EU and NATO.
Russia refuses to accept any deal allowing that. For now.

>>1304464
>I did which is why I'm saying you're wrong.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/mar/04/british-soldiers-on-ground-ukraine-german-military-leak

>>1304593
>Released on Friday by the editor of the Kremlin-controlled news channel RT,
No one believes you

>>1304594
>confirmed as authentic by Germany

>>1304603
it's just a SMO, what's the matter

>>1304605
I'm not complaining, lmao. Fuck Russia. This would hardly be the first conflict with deniable special forces/military advisors/pilots in play.

>>1304603
>according to RT
>>1304605
>>1304606
It didn't happen.

>>1304622
No. The Guardian is who said Germany confirmed it as authentic.

>>1304660
Germany didn't confirm it though. Here is what is actually happening.

https://www.deutschland.de/en/news/nato-sets-up-command-centre-for-ukraine-deployment-in-germany

>>1304592

What is best for Ukraine (pick one):

Ukraine joining the EU and NATO
Ukraine fighting an endless war

>>1304151
Why don't you get fucked by Ugandan up the ass who has aids? All right you already did

>>1304136
I don't understand the trump hat

>>1304739
most support for Russia in America comes from the far right, and most of the far right are MAGA

>>1304693
>Ukraine joining the EU and NATO
This. Which is why they have to end the war by winning it.

Which is best for Russia (pick one):

Russia losing the war later
Russia defenestrating their government and losing the war now

>>1304760
you're retarded

>>1304818
You left out the part about how Putin probably has cancer

>>1304820
Please explain why you think so in great detail.

>>1304821
Why would Putin having cancer matter? Severe illness never stopped a Russian leader from ruining their country.

>>1304826
If Putin is spending 2 months recovering from chemo and surgery at his resort in the Urals then he can't manage the war effectively and then Putin's yes men will take over.

>>1304820
t. looks and sounds exactly like the pic

>>1304828
>and then Putin's yes men will take over
As I said, wouldn't matter.

>>1304818
>>Ukraine joining the EU and NATO
>This. Which is why they have to end the war by winning it.

Except Ukraine can't win even with Western weapons and money and the West will never send its own troops to fight, as Russia is a nuclear power. The war has been in a stalemate for two years now, when will Ukraine suddenly leap up and roll over the Ruskies? Because if they could, they'd have done it already.

Ukraine can't join NATO with an active war going and won't be brought into the EU for the same reason, so who benefits from keeping the war going? The Wall Street military industrial complex, as Western nations pawn off their old shit on Ukraine and buy new weapons.

>>1304964
Russia could end the war tomorrow by pulling out of Ukraine's territory.

>>1305024

Sure they could but the point is that they can keep this up while Ukraine can't.

>>1305029
>they can keep this up while Ukraine can't.
According to whom?

>>1305033

Follow the thread, I'm not repeating myself.

>>1305035
Someone's vague opinions are supposed to prove something?

>>1304136
https://youtu.be/RvFKvcdrmhM?si=WB0CeB23nEH7ksBh ○ https://youtu.be/4HYpGS3KQEA?si=1pyb52OJxcoz6b9X ○ https://youtu.be/3G9tEnw4ZRI?si=UUnrcVwRcbbZCZbg ○ https://youtu.be/cHnNOzWW0Kc?si=VdASpyPvw1eqYzP3

>>1304136
https://youtu.be/YzpkHFozcZI?si=kmDRehUfvt3Q14mF ○ https://youtu.be/7K3mNe5pCgA?si=lc4iFNVoxvYr1ox7 ○