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>go die

Don’t worry, they will

>huh??? that happened in the PAST, how could it affect the PRESENT??
but how would you feel if you hadn't eaten breakfast?

usually when you see people all parroting the same lines as if they are on a script, it's because they are.
you see it with cash 4 clunkers, dodge v ford, and several other really inconsequential but seemingly divisive topics: people all mass commenting the same bullshit. what it was doing before was poisoning search results but now it is also poisoning ai results.
so keep that in mind whenever you see a suspiciously large amount of people getting bent out of shape in the same direction over something: if there is no discussion or argument in the comments and everyone is just posting the same or similar thing over and over and over, those aren't real people it's a bot farm in the process of rewriting history for some nebulous political motive.

No, the car market is fucked because they flushed the global economy down the shitter over the flu in 2020 to punish everyone for voting for populists.

>>28720695
Who was President in 2020?

>>28720698
Benjamin Netanyahu

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>>28720633
>Literally every video or article about car prices has the comment section full of people blaming this program.
The actual reason is that people got used to inflated prices as the norm and also got used to getting really bad loans on those inflated prices. Covid pricing completely distorted perceptions and easy loans drive up prices since it artificially adds demand when people have extra money to spend irresponsibly. Also, people are too saturated with debt and cannot afford to take on much more, and as a result are competing for cars in the used market, making things worse.

I notice that blame never gets placed on the borrower for whatever reason, but they buy too much car and go underwater for too much time at interest rates that are too high, and there is attributable fault to that. It's always placed on the lender or the government. I'm sure it makes them feel better when they can't afford to buy a daily that doesn't have 200k miles on it already.

It's because of LE BROWN PEEPO

>>28720652
How does scrapping 600k vehicles 20 years ago affect prices now when 200+ million new cars have been manufactured and sold in the intervening 2 decades?

>>28720682
>what it was doing before was poisoning search results but now it is also poisoning ai results.
It also misses another crucial issue. Misidentifying the parameters and conditions of the problem makes resolution impossible.

The Car Allowance Rebate Program only operated for about two months. It also barely made a dent in the overall car supply because it was underfunded. It burned through its $3 billion dollar allocation in under two months. It's also why these types of rebate programs did not get reintroduced in the future because it did not fulfill any long-term goals other than a short term stimulus.

The reality of it is that the supply of old used cars will always dwindle because they get old, broken, wrecked, and used cars require new cars to get bought and sold at least once. They're either in the scrapyard or someone already owns the car and continues to drive the vehicle.

>>28720721
It doesn't. Every single car has basically been replaced ever since that program came to a close on a transportation basis (nevermind the sentimental value), but C4C is the car guy's hol/o/caust. Gaze ye not into the clipped coin, lest you clip it yourself, I guess.

I guarantee that the bitching about the lack of cars is mostly a money issue. If people had lots of discretionary spending, they would've traded in their current vehicle towards one they're aspiring to. Right now, money supply is tight, economy is low-hire-low-fire so people feel stuck in jobs that they have no upward mobility in, and there's a problem with sticky inflation since people are using consumer-level debt to finance their daily lives, which makes the velocity of money flow very fast and drive up a ton of inflation. The inflation alone is enough to really fuck over the collective masses because the debt accrued is high interest.

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>>28720698
>after the last 4 years he still thinks the president runs anything
fucking lol

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>>28720721
this is the funniest shit

c4c destroyed (or sold overseas) roughly 600,000 cars, ok?
between 2008 and 2023 Dodge, just by itself, produced over 1,000,000 LX body Challengers, 1.7 million Durangos, and 2.3 million Chargers.

c4c did literally fuck all

>>28720791
>between 2008 and 2023 Dodge, just by itself, produced over 1,000,000 LX body Challengers, 1.7 million Durangos, and 2.3 million Chargers
If those police chase videos are of any indication, state troopers and scholars ensure that there will never be a large surplus of these vehicles.

its just harder to admit it was attrition + smartphones

attrition from 10+ years of car accidents, rust, shitty retards, and mechanical issues on top of the cars getting 200k+ miles

smartphones making everything impossible to buy because any retard can now shop for a car with his pocket supercomputer 24/7 connected to the internet and any retard can base his car off kbb which goes off auction/wholesale pricing + 20%

c4c had nothing to do with 4/6 cyl cars only v8s and even then it was the shittiest v8 cars getting cashed in usually (or they were owned by normies who would've traded it in to a dealer anyways)

>>28720700
extremely accurate

God, I hate niggers and I hate their faggy "allies" even more. The more time goes on, the clearer it is that the wrong team won WWII.

>>28720633
>Obama president from 2009-2017
>this program from 20+ years ago

>>28720633
Nah the "car market is fucked" are Euroboomers trying to wish their piece of shit companies into modern relevance.

Nobody is willing to pay 6 figures just because your car has a logo thats based off a coat of arms except boomers. Especially when you retards handed the companies to lawyers and hotel execs.

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What the fuck is this thread?

Cash4Clunkers was always weird and was never going to achieve it's stated goal of invigorating the new American car market, as it wasn't paired with an incentive to buy American.
Destroying 600k pre-'08 cars OBVIOUSLY impacted the market for those particular model years because it reduced the already ever-dwindling supply while in no way curbing demand. Why are so many of you desperately claiming it didn't?
>But there's new cars being made!
Apples and oranges? new cars aren't old cars. Totally different markets
Your mistake and frustration seems to be a commitment to not admitting c4c was a bad short-sighted policy that primarily hurts those looking for sub-5000$ vehicles.
It's ok to admit it kinda failed and fucked us in the long-run. people during the financial crisis and bailouts werent thinking long-term, as they wanted to put out the immediate fires ASAP to avoid collapse. It's ok to "get" why they did it, but still not like it and it's consequences.
That's not to say c4c is the SOLE reason used car prices suck now, but I don't see any reason to downplay it.

>>28720682
Dodge vs Ford being INSIGNIFICANT? It set a legal precedent that changed the course of capitalism and America forever. Eternally relevant and yet it's still a pretty niche topic. Your post is WEIRD
>process of rewriting history for some nebulous political motive
Projection. You seem to be the one with an agenda, downplaying a major part of automotive history. On top of that, you're the one being conspiratorial, by implying anyone who mentions certain topics is a bot. Who is paying for Dodge v. Ford bots? You're not making sense.
So get bent. I hope /o/ reads Ford and becomes red pilled on "the world's foremost problem". Hate your post.

>>28721060
>Dodge vs Ford being INSIGNIFICANT?
i said it is INCONSEQUENTIAL
which is to say for you or me the widely corporate-impacting decision that was made there literally doesn't matter at all, and there is no sense arguing about it. the story of the lawsuit is simply used in conjunction with anachronous logos to grandstand the erroneous claim that the dodge brothers were evil jewish shareholders greedily suing nice old mr henry ford who "simply" wanted to divert shareholder dividends to his needy workers.

it's kike false flagging bullshit and anybody with a nose can smell it a mile away

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this is the logo the dodge brothers' company used when they engaged in the legalities with ford

>>28721060
this logo was used by "dodge brothers motor vehicles" the independent car company which at that point would have been owned or about to be owned by walter p. chrysler, because the actual dodge brothers died over a decade before.

i'm not sure whose in charge of this weird pr putsch but they're missing the details

>>28721079
the fact that something like that could even become a case - and moreover especially, that the court *found in their favor* - is emblematic of a deep spiritual sickness in america that was already set in at the time, which over time has borne monstrous fruits

>>28720992
the program ended in 2009

>>28721087
The globalist/Zionist imagery of the symbol I posted is damning and sums up the spirit of the argument and the Dodge's allegiance
I posted it because I had it on hand, I didn't intend to imply anything beyond that. I know that the Dodge bros were merely shareholders in Ford at the time. It wasnt one company against another.
>>28721079
Dodge vs Ford was momentous. It set the precedent that any and all action by a corporation is beholden to shareholders. NOT the CEO, not the consumer, not the employees, not the American people or tax payers or the government. Shareholders. Even if they aren't American nationals, even if they are free to leave and make their own rival company right after making crucial decisions for their original company (an obvious conflict of interest)
Ford wanted sustainable growth, sustainable prices, and fair wages. His sympathies were nationalistic, his heart was in Detroit.
The Dodge brothers sympathies were personal profit and globalization.

Within a decade internationalist communists and ethno-national socialists were duking it out all over Europe, WWII to this day frames our entire political landscape and the American identity.
To this day Dodge vs Ford's precedent is still in place. Had that case gone differently, corporations would never have been the same. How is the spirit of that case inconsequential?
i drive Chevy and have no personal feelings on the cars themselves, Its not a matter of dunking on modern Chrysler, it's a matter of objective history.
Everybody knows Ford was a breakout American success story, the automobile, factory work, assembly lines.
Everybody knows Dodge. These are household names.
SOME know/talk about Ford's Nazi sympathies.
Very few actually understand this trial and how Ford got to that place.

This knowledge is pretty obscure. Downplayed. Which is what you're doing right now. Normalfags don't know shit about Ford and his antisemitic journals. You're acting like the knowledge is passé

>>28721060
>Destroying 600k pre-'08 cars OBVIOUSLY impacted the market for those particular model years because it reduced the already ever-dwindling supply while in no way curbing demand. Why are so many of you desperately claiming it didn't?
Have you considered the fact that the market for the cars destroyed was and continues to be nonexistent? Are you as an enthusiast and collector in the market for an early 2000's 4-cylinder shitbox? Maybe a wheezy smog-bogged V8? And not the recoverable kind from the 70's either mind you; desirable cars were purposefully made exempt.

The number one complaint everyone always has is that they trashed a bunch of foxbody Mustangs when the actual count is like a couple hundred if that. An actual rounding error for a car of which 2,000,000 examples were made. More were likely lost to crashes and neglect over the course of the program than were lost to C4C itself.

C4C didn't do jack fucking shit to the used car market.
The most popular vehicle for turn in was the Ford Explorer.
I have 2 of them.
Bought both in the last 10 years.
Overall the cars that were traded in were absolute pieces of shit. Not just physical condition of individual vehicles but also the class of vehicle were mostly the garbage from the 80s that we didn't want back then and you wouldnt buy today.
They werent crushing '68 firebirds, Torinos or Aston Martin's.
They crushed Ford Escorts and Chevy Caprices, rusted out Dodge pickups and rape vans.
>inb4 dude Ive always wanted an escort!!
No you dont.
These werent rally spec. They were shitboxes with twisted chassis and electrical gremlins up the ass.

>>28720633
Why are zoomer retards still obsessed with defending Obama?

>>28721142
>defending Obama
Have you considered that not everything any particulat president does is bad? When I want to shittalk Obama I do it by pointing out he went limp-dick on those responsible for 2008 and fucked us financially for the forseeable future by doing so, or pointing out that he drone-struck children in the middle east before whitewashing his public image.

We also shouldn't forget that automobile production dropped several million units per year for about 3 years around the GFC. Taken together it added up to something like a full years production just gone while at the same time scappage and export rates stayed the same. That was a pretty damn big hole in used car availability that we were just getting over when COVID measures hit and new car production got shot to shit again but scrappage and export again stayed the same.

>>28721148
Bush was responsible for the recession. Obama saved us from a depression.

>>28721148
worst of all hes a stuttering retard

>>28721189
>my team good, your team bad
The fuck outta here

>>28721148
No, every one is bad. The only thing politicians are good for is using the poor to fuck the middle class for the benefit of the rich.

>>28721060
Your wrong and if anything c2c pumped the numbers up
Remember that during the 08-09 recession new car sales dropped 40% that's literally millions of vehicles

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>>28721060
Are you seriously suggesting you couldn't find a sub 5k car in 2010?
Did you desperately want a Ford windstar or something

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>>28721134
>a bunch of foxbody Mustangs when the actual count is like a couple hundred if that
Ya it was like 500 fox body mustangs.

A lot of trucks but I guarantee they were beat to shit.
https://www.thedrive.com/news/heres-the-full-list-of-all-677081-cars-killed-in-cash-for-clunkers

>>28720682
My favorite is the tork vs donkerpower debate when power IS tork but with time. When people say they like tork what they really mean is they like low rpm hp but an engine designed for low rpm power doesn't translate to high peak hp figures and so, people misunderstand and misrepresent the quote
>Hp sells cars but tork wins racesp

>>28720822
>shitty retards, and mechanical issues
The actual reason the car market sucks. Dumb ignorants who neglect maintenance on modern vehicles which are increasingly more sensitive to developing problems, so they fail earlier.

>>28721208
It's fucking reality, retard. Why was the first bailout under Bush if it was Obama's fault?

>>28721122
What year did it start? It's not from 20+ years ago

>>28720633
we're still seeing the political and cultural effects of WW1. Not 2, ONE. Over a century ago, everyone who lived through it is dead, and it's still influencing us to this day.

>>28720633
they're literally retarded. they're the same people who insist that health insurance was $10/month and covered everything with $50 annual out of pocket maximums prior to obamacare.

>>28721322
The program ran for only 8 weeks from July 1 to August 24 in 2009 and within that time 677k cars were irrecoverably destroyed, seizing the engine with liquid gas and their chassis crushed. The program cost about $3B in rebates for cars crushed

>>28721189
>>28721314
I know this. My issue with him is that after Bush fumbled the bag Obama stepped in and gave the bankers the regulatory equivalent of a stern talking-to and then slapped them on the back and went "alright, now get outta here you loveable scamps." He should have put the screws in. Lack of consequences for the financial class is what has resulted in everything from increasing debt loads on the government to the financialization of your fucking burrito order.

History has shown time and time again that if you let people off the hook, they will do whatever risky behavior you let them slide away with over and over again until society blows up. Obama should have New Deal'd the fuck out of Wall Street and didn't. That's just as much of a fuckup as Bush's initial attempt to contain the crisis, and guess what? Now it's all happening again under Trump because the New York financial scene is where he was born and it's where he'll swear his ultimate allegiance at the end of the day. Look how easily he fell for the 50-year mortgage gag.

>>28721352
>liquid gas
*liquid glass

>>28721336
I mean Obama care literally raised prices: "Between 2013 and 2019, the average price paid for health insurance premiums in the individual market jumped by 143%. One analysis found that premiums for individual coverage more than doubled from 2013 to 2017." and "Annual national health spending growth decreased to an average of 4.3% in 2010–2018, compared to 6.9% from 2000–2009." and "The amount health insurers charge for coverage on the ACA Marketplaces is rising 26%, on average, in 2026. In states that run their own Marketplaces, the average benchmark (second-lowest cost) silver premium, on which the tax credit calculation is based, is rising 17% next year. In states that use Healthcare.gov, these premiums are rising an average of 30%."
Sorry half black man was the same grifter as the rest of them.
But whatever redditor.

>>28721357
I bet taht anon focuses on statement like a tard.

>>28721357
im not saying prices didn't go up. im saying health insurance sucked ass prior to the ACA. it was never affordable, it was always a scam, and it only gets worse.

>>28721357
>>28721368
also the ACA was a neoliberal scam solution but it nonetheless did some good by not allowing for preexisting conditions and doing away with lifetime spending caps.

>>28721368
As a grown ass man, it wasn't NEARLY as bad. It was tolerable before and unaffordable now. Just remove insurance as thing. Compete for clients. Problem solved.

>>28721385
for primary care? sure. but cash price surgical/specialty is still unaffordable for 90% of americans.

>>28721124
You're probably replying to a jew. There were times in history when they were forced to wear a symbol such as a hat to show normal people who they were interacting with.

>>28721314
Don't make me tap >>28721212 the sign, team blue fag. Your team talks sweet to your face and stabs your back behind closed doors, just like team red.
>>28721353
This guy sees it a little.

>>28721357
Healthcare is inarguably better under the ACA than before. The ACA forcing insurers to cover people no matter what is what kept my dad around despite his heart failure and I will be forever thankful for that.

Just should have been actual proper single-payer and not a compromise-laden handout to the insurance industry.

>>28721385
>Just remove insurance as thing. Compete for clients.
The reason why you can't do this is because when you're bleeding out on an operating table or need critical medical care as soon as possible there's no time to "compete" for who cares for you. You either receive treatment or don't.

>>28720987
You can kill yourself anytime mate.
>>28721460
>The ACA forcing insurers to cover people no matter what is what kept my dad around despite his heart failure and I will be forever thankful for that.
Based. Couldn't imagine losing your father because of medical insurance.

>>28720791
Yeah but those are dodges, so they'll never last anyhow. Cash for Clunkers took some actual good vehicles off the roads.

>>28721124
Dodge vs Ford is meaningless. What was momentous was the jews taking power.
Note how ESG, despite being wildly unprofitable, is still legally permissable despite directly contradicting Dodge vs Ford.
Your rulers (the jews) get what they want, regardless of what the law says. Dodge vs Ford was just a way for them to destroy the west early on, just like ESG is now. It’s like saying: “omg, rosa parks singehandedly helped stop segregstion!”
She didn’t do shit, it was staged by jews and they paid her lawyers and pushed to overturn segregation.

>>28721353
Reminder: Epstein (a mossad agent) was literally at the heart of the CDO crisis.
He was by all accounts a retard, so someone else connected to mossad simply gave Epstein, their front-man, instructions on what to do.

>>28720708
>I notice that blame never gets placed on the borrower for whatever reason
That's because it's perfectly fine on the banks and the car dealers to have stupid people taking loans they can't pay, and then the car gets repo'd and the dealer gets to sell it again.

If you shame people for being stupid, they'll stop doing stupid shit, which sounds like an obvious thing, until you realize the entire economy depends on people being stupid.

>>28721766
*women
Women make up 80% of spending (their incomes + the income of their simps). The entire economy revolves around that and jewish financial trickery to enslave you

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OP is too stupid to realize people are talking about pre 2008 cars when they mention cash for clunkers. Cult classics from the 70s-90s. Actual fucking brainlet.

>>28721060
This post is correct and I'm baffled at all of the people in this thread trying to claim cash for clunkers wasn't a big deal.

>>28720682
>if there is no discussion or argument in the comments and everyone is just posting the same or similar thing over and over and over, those aren't real people it's a bot farm in the process of rewriting history for some nebulous political motive.
Classic jew tactic. Always accuse your opponent of doing what you yourself are doing.

>>28720733
>>28720791
>>28721141
Don't sit there and gas light people by saying this program didn't have any long lasting effects. I lived through this shit. It absolutely destroyed the ultra cheap used car market which has never recovered.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0IcIxhd8ks
Take a look for yourselves. This is what a sub $5,000 care used to look like.

>>28721818
>Cult classics from the 70s
This shit wasn't even eligible for C4C. Anything scrapped had to be less than 25 years old.

>>28721836
>This post is correct and I'm baffled at all of the people in this thread trying to claim cash for clunkers wasn't a big deal.
Name actual good cars that were in short supply that were totaled to the point of chunking hundreds if not thousands onto asking prices via C4C.

>>28721818
0 cars made before 1985 were eligible for C4C, 83% of cars turned in were dogshit Trucks/SUVs like Exploders.

>>28721945
84 not 85

>>28721945
>NOOOOOOO ANONNNN YOU DON'T UNDERSTAAAAAAND
>I WOULD HAVE BEEN ABLE TO OWN A ROADRUNNER JUST LIKE ME GRANDPAPPY IF BUTTCRACK INSANE OBAMNA DIDN'T SCRAP 68,429,760,822 OF THEM DURING CASH 4 CLUNKERS
>ARRRREEEEEEEEEEEGGGHHHHH!!!

>>28721949
>reading comprehension

>>28721945
>0 cars made before 1985 were eligible for C4C,
Dude.
I posted some of the list and a link to the rest of it.
Cars are grouped by make/model/year
They start with 1984.
And as far as im aware, 1984 vehicles were made before 1985.

>>28721945
>0 cars made before 1985 were eligible for C4C, 83% of cars turned in were dogshit Trucks/SUVs like Exploders.
Trucks and exploders were the worst losses... They are my kind of shitboxes!!!

>>28721937
>Name actual good cars that were in short supply that were totaled to the point of chunking hundreds if not thousands onto asking prices via C4C.

1995-2003 Ford Explorer/Mercury Mountaineer: 46,676
1996-2000 Chrysler/Dodge/Plymouth minivans: 23,998
1993-1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee: 20,844
1992-1997 Ford F-150: 20,222
1984-2001 Jeep Cherokee: 18,329
1988-2002 GM C/K pickup: 17,202
1995-2005 Chevrolet Blazer: 15,668
1999-2003 Ford Windstar: 12,157
1991-1994 Ford Explorer: 11,612
1994-2001 Dodge Ram 1500: 8,103

Say whatever you want about the Explorer, but cars like Chrystler/Dodge minivans, Jeep Grand Cherokees, Cherokees, GM Pickup trucks, Blazers and F150s of this era were all pretty reliable.

>>28722618
One quick example of why C4C did nothing to the used car market.
>1993-1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee: 20,844
>The total production for the 1993-1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee (ZJ generation) was 1,428,095
The 20,844 that were scrapped were not pristine high-value examples. They would have wound up in the junkyard regardless. In reality it was less than 0.5% of grand Cherokees thay mattered.

>>28721836
> I lived through this shit.
Im older than you
I voted yes on California Prop 187.

#1) the people who sold their cars for C4C werent going to get rid of their old car until it died. They would have wound up in the junkyard regardless.
#2) actual rare, desirable vehicles that were crushed are in the single digits.
#3) Before C4C a running truck would sell at auction in SoCal for $1k minimum, 4x4 versions for $2k. Every vehicle in the top ten list are readily available today, for actually less than comparable prices when adjusted for inflation if not for the same 2008 price.

>>28722618
>Ford chrysler dodge
So nothing of value was lost
>Jeep chevy
Those would've rusted to hell and back by now.

>>28721248
It’s kind of true. Peak torque gives you more information the whole power band than peak hp.
ie an engine can make 300 peak hp and be totally gutless everywhere else. Whereas an engine that makes 300 peak tq is probably going to make more power than the former engine in 90% of the powerband.

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>>28721404
shut the fuck up retard

>>28721124
again you are using anachronistic symbols and happenstance to imply things that are not true and don't make sense. the Dodges were protestant michigan natives as was Ford. they were not globalists, they were known to enjoy drinking, machinery, and hard work.
the logo you keep posting is not a logo the Dodge brothers ever saw or used but was adopted during the decade of receivership their company was in after they had both died and their widows sold it, after the court action against Ford.

basically this is a clear disinfo tactic
show one picture but talk about something completely different, leaving out the critical details like how the Dodges constructed the assembly line equipment to Ford that made his company famous in the first place, and that Ford's attempts to withhold dividends from the Dodge brothers was not some anti-globalist anti-jew anti-shareholder protest but the greedy actions of a spiteful old man who wanted to snuff out his competition before they ever got a chance. the hilarious public excuse that he wanted to return it to his workers by increasing wages is not only a bald-faced lie but paints Ford as a communist.
No, the real reason was that Ford knew the Dodges were trying to turn their machine works into a car company and he was aggressively trying to hinder that.

>>28720718
>import >20 million browns
>doesn't dry up or strain the cheap and accessible source of cars

>>28722744
>excuse that he wanted to return it to his workers by increasing wages
You seem to be ignoring the Fact that Ford was paying his workers 5x the industry standard. He had already PROVED your claim wrong.

>>28721124
>Very few actually understand this trial and how Ford got to that place.
Hey can you refute or provide some information on the claim that this is limited to Michigan law? I know what you're implying but I've seen it that this only impacts those businesses registered in Michigan.

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>>28722789
so why did his workers even need more then? see it's complete bullshit. Ford wanted to sabotage the Dodges' attempts at building their own car company and did it illegally. Ford's line that it was done for the workers was an excuse to avoid admitting to what was already a federal crime. it has nothing to do with any of the nonsense about jews or globalism or whatever the fuck that is being implied by posting a picture of the later 1920s logo the Dodge brothers themselves never designed or saw.

>>28722618
You missed the "short supply" part. Look up the production numbers for each of the things you posted and you'll realize very quickly that the scrappage rates are in the single digits, barely moving the needle. These are cars for whose production numbers for the years stated are in the high hundreds of thousands and in some cases millions. Ford themselves likely scrapped more Windstars via their repurchases for snapped subframes than C4C did.

>>28721945
>0 cars made before 1985 were eligible for C4C
Literally false you fucking dumbass.

>>28722834
NTA but unless you're one of the people getting him on the idea that technically you could also scrap cars made from July to December 1984, this is absolutely true. Vehicles had to be 25 years or younger on the date of the trade-in in order to be eligible, and the program started in July '09, making anything manufactured before July 1984 ineligible for C4C.

>>28721460
>Healthcare is inarguably better under the ACA
No it's not anon.
The ACA had some ok parts in it. Keeping people from getting rejected based on pre-existing conditions was good.
But the affordable Care act increased the price of medical insurance and coverage for everyone in the US by an order of magnitudes.
It went 1/2 way to fully socialized medicine.
It should have gone all the way or not at all.

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>>28722618
Oh no won't someone think of the 40,000 second generation ford explorers that don't exist anymore

>>28720633
They're totally right, you know.

>>28721385
You can't apply free market principles to shit that people need to live. Like anon >>28721474 points out, you can't exactly shop around for deals when your options are to get treatment now or die.

>>28723209
>It went 1/2 way to fully socialized medicine.
>It should have gone all the way or not at all.
I wonder if it's possible to identify who or what caused it to be a gutted, toothless, half assed attempt. Oh well, guess we'll never know.

>>28723209
>The ACA had some ok parts in it. Keeping people from getting rejected based on pre-existing conditions was good.
>But the affordable Care act increased the price of medical insurance and coverage for everyone in the US by an order of magnitudes.
Hundreds of thousands if not millions of lives were save long-term by this as a piece of legislation. I'm not saying that it didn't make things more expensive, I'm saying that it saved lives, including my father's. Any piece of legislation that lets dads, moms, sisters, brothers, wives, husbands, siblings, and cousins live when they otherwise would have died is better and I'm not going to entertain anyone who would have sat around and said "well, it made things more expensive for me, so I'm going to have to say that we should have let your dad die anon."

Obviously it should have gone further. I wish it did. But it didn't, and considering the choices that we actually got in reality I'm going to pick the ACA and my dad getting to see me graduate from college over the alternative each and every time.

>>28720633
Cash for clunkers removed about 5-15% of used cars in 2009.
Covid Chip shortage reduced the number of new cars for sale by 8% between 2021-2022
New cars continue to raise in price since 2010 with additional safety mandates, safety feature mandates, and MPG efficiency targets.

All of this adds up to making your car purchase 35-60% higher today depending on what you wanted to purchase.

>>28723538
>Cash for clunkers removed about 5-15% of used cars in 2009.
>source: my ass

>>28723538
15% would mean there were only 4 million used cars in the U.S. you fucking braindead dipshit.
5% would be 12 million used cars.
There's 12 million used cars just in southern california.
Your figures are pure fantasy.

Even the most popular C4C turn in (explorer) are still everywhere. You can find a 1998 explorer for sale right fucking now in any major city in the U.S. for a few grand.

Once again.
The majority of those 600k cars were pieces of shit.
They were traded in for a $2,500 credit.
If they were worth more than $2,500- PEOPLE SOLD THE FUCKING CARS FOR CASH THEN BOUGHT A NEW CAR.
Thats what C4C crushed.
Shitboxes that werent even worth $2,500 in the used car market

This is what you morons think happened:
>hey id like to buy a new F150, whats the trade in value on my explorer?
>we'll give you $8k for it or you can do this government program and get $2.5k for it.

>>28723566
>Even the most popular C4C turn in (explorer) are still everywhere. You can find a 1998 explorer for sale right fucking now in any major city in the U.S. for a few grand.
That's the fucking issue though. For a while you could get a damn decent explorer for a thousand or less. I wonder how many 5.0 explorers got turned into C4C. Fucking bullshit.

Also those 92-97 F-150s would be worth more as parts today than they got for them in C4C.

File: 1742333302362.jpg (1.97 MB, 2000x1336)

1.97 MB JPG

>>28723503
>thousands if not millions of lives were save long-term by this as a piece
Doubt.
Death rates didn't see any major changes
If anything they went up a bit.

All the ACA did was give fat illegals insurance and robbed everyone else for it.

>>28723209
>>28723503
>>28721460
Ironic to read this as a 20 year type 1 diabetic whose father (also type 1) happily pushed for the repeal of the ACA as it didn't do anything. I tell him near quarterly that his greed guaranteed a worse future for his son who shares his disease. He doesn't like that.

>>28723661
You haven't the faintest idea of what you're talking about and likely have never actually used or healthcare or paid a bill. The ACAs preventative care coverage and HSA program removed pretty much any common instances of medical insurance bankruptcy. It also puts thousands back in the pockets of working Americans with chronic illnesses that were getting fleeced at the door. You all love to bitch and moan about cost, but you've never had to fight a pharmacist to give you meds you are owed and covered on your insurance, but Karen in approvals decided this past year it was ok to implement a requirement to use the negotiated (and changing yearly) preferred insulin. Youve never had to explain to them as they look dull eyed it's your last insulin pen and waiting a few days isn't an option. You e never then had to call and spend six hours fighting the insurance just for them to magically realize that they do cover it and they will approve and sorry for the delay. And I know for a fact you haven't had to do this yearly like I have since the ACA went bye bye. There are over 10 million type 1s in the USA. Far more if you count insulin dependent type 2s (I count them less since Type 2s are largely caused by their own choices). This impacts at least one American you know.

>>28723583
Maybe Exploders don't exist anymore because they're fucking pieces of shit and C4C has nothing to do with it??? Funny how nobody C4C'd their Suburban's and there's still shitloads of those left. Hmm.

>>28720721
>How does scrapping 600k vehicles 20 years ago affect prices now when 200+ million new cars have been manufactured and sold in the intervening 2 decades?
Fallacious reasoning. Yes, the total number of cars destroyed in cash for clunkers was quickly replaced by new cars, but the cars destroyed were cheap used cars. Do you know what poor people are buying? Cheap used cars. Do you know what they can't afford? Brand new cars. It doesn't matter if the volume of cars destroyed was replace with new ones if the people who need cheap cars CANT AFFORD THE NEW ONES. Meanwhile it removed around 700,000 pieces of inventory off the cheap used market. Just saying "Oh 700,000 cars were destroyed but blah blah million were produced since then, so that means this didn't effect anything" is total bullshit. Price point matters. Condition matters, age matters. There are different shopping segments for cars and the point people make when they criticize this program is that it contributed to the destruction of the ultra cheap car market, which it did. Used prices shot up 20% in the first year and a half after the program.
https://autos.yahoo.com/2010-10-15-used-car-prices-fall-for-first-time-since-cash-for-clunkers.html

>>28721141
>Overall the cars that were traded in were absolute pieces of shit. Not just physical condition of individual vehicles but also the class of vehicle were mostly the garbage from the 80s that we didn't want back then and you wouldnt buy today.
>>28721243
>A lot of trucks but I guarantee they were beat to shit.
Again, bullshit. Look at this video. Actually watch it and look at the condition of cars that were being traded in. Yes a handful of them are ratty but 95% of the cars on this lot look perfectly fine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OOwvcHAnQo

>>28724238
>Actually watch it and look at the condition of cars that were being traded in. Yes a handful of them are ratty but 95% of the cars on this lot look perfectly fine.
>look perfectly fine
>look
Local /o/ poster has no idea what "beat to shit" means, more news at 11.

Also, why are we again ignoring that these cars had millions of examples made and the demo rates are like 5% of their model years at most? 5% of a price bump on $1000 is $50 lmao

>>28723566
>They were traded in for a $2,500 credit.
>If they were worth more than $2,500- PEOPLE SOLD THE FUCKING CARS FOR CASH THEN BOUGHT A NEW CAR.
>Thats what C4C crushed.
>Shitboxes that werent even worth $2,500 in the used car market

Completely disingenuous. The program offered anywhere from $3,500-4,500 dollars, depending on just how bad the fuel economy was compared what you were "trading it in" on. Why are you lying about the price point? Also how much do you think a 90s explorer or 90s Jeep Cherokee was getting on dealer trade in in 2008? I'm sure $3,500-4,500 was way better than what most dealers offered. This program was used by middle class people to get a better price on trade in for getting a new car all while removing inventory from the cheap used car market.

>>28724244
>Also, why are we again ignoring that these cars had millions of examples made and the demo rates are like 5% of their model years at most? 5% of a price bump on $1000 is $50 lmao
I see you completely ignored the first part of my post where I literally linked an article that said the used car market shot up 20% in wake of the cash for clunkers program.

>>28724250
>I see you completely ignored the first part of my post where I literally linked an article that said the used car market shot up 20% in wake of the cash for clunkers program.

Yeah you ignored it also.

>Driven by short supplies, used car prices shot up nearly 20% during the past 17 months, CEPR noted. Despite the rise, however, the cost of previously owned vehicles remains 9.5% below its 2001 peak, it said. (The rapid rise and slower pace of gains in prices resulting from "cash for clunkers" is shown in the graphic below, which does not include September's data.)

Lol

>>28724238
I wonder what had more impact, 600k shit boxes gone, or 14 million illegals buying shitty used cars because they have no money or credit to buy nice ones

>>28724238
Again 600k is nothing 14 million cars were scrapped in 2009 alone and only 10 million new cars were sold leading to a 4 million deficit

>>28721124
>Dodge vs Ford
didn't they overturn Roe vs Wade and piss off a bunch of people
why cant we just overturn this shit as well

>>28720822
>Reddit pasta

p. sure the most common CFC trade-in were Explorers with 300k miles and Pepsi spilled into the seats

>>28721353
>Obama should have New Deal'd the fuck out of Wall Street and didn't
why would you think he'd do that? the guy had minimal experience or qualifications to be president he'd served less than a full term as a Senator in a Senate seat he was appointed to due to a vacancy.

>>28721460
>>28721684
This has nothing to do with cars.

>>>/pol/

>>28722618
Only the F150 and C/K were somewhat worth keeping, the rest is totally worthless scrap.

>>28721243
>Ya it was like 500 fox body mustangs
No word either on what condition those 500 Mustangs were in, probably few to none were driveable.

>>28722669
It's been years and years since I last saw a Gen 1 Grand Cherokee. Surely it had to be in Bush's first term They all disappeared many moons ago.

>>28725125
right. idk how any got scrapped in CFC because they seemed to be all gone from the road well before that.

I'm not even kidding. I saw an amazingly minty Gen 1 Mercury Mountaineer a few weeks ago (how?) but it's been longer than I can remember since I last saw a Gen 1 GC.

>>28725133
technically the 1st gen GC was 93-98 and the 1st gen Mountaineer was 98-01 so the GC was an older vehicle with only the last model year overlapping the Mountaineer. not that it matters when the shit is that old anyway, but just saying.

most of those 90s SUVs were disposable family haulers, few people actually cared about them and they were all scrapped when their service life came to an end