>treeless rocks
couldn't pay me

>>2855204
>t.soulless

>>2855203
when I visited Grand Canyon a few years ago it was mid-December. The lack of crowds was nice but it was also cold as fuck and windy. Idk how bad the crowds are in warmer weather but being there when it's below freezing and windy wasn't great.

>>2855203
I visited in Novemeber, which according to the stats is an off season and it was packed as fuck. Would never go back. Also >>2855204
Incredibly boring compared to what Utah has to offer.

Anybody who says "x national park was crowded" didnt make it more than a mile or two from a parking lot

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>>2855298
This

>>2855203
Like >>2855293 said, there is no off-season for GC. There hasn't been for years now.

If you visited the park you would know...

>>2855338
If you can't find solitude at the Grand Canyon I don't know what to tell you. You could spend days in the Grand Canyon and not see anyone else, even on some of the official trails you'll only see a handful of people if that.
>>2855293
Also, the Grand Canyon is incredible, and Northern Arizona is basically just an extension of Southern Utah, unfortunately a lot of it is tricky to access in the Navajo and Hopi lands.

>>2855298
Not really true at all for all parks. You can easily find people in the valley of Yosemite miles form the trailhead, especially on the way to the dome. There's a number of parks where you absolutely need to either find obscure unpopular trailheads, arrive super early, or go in off season to not be crowded. Parks that have tiny parking lots or lottery systems also are way better at filtering people, but then you also need to arrive super early to get on any of the popular trailheads that way.

Also half the battle in some of the parks is literally getting a parking spot. Arrive past 8am? Good fucking luck in any of the popular parks. Tetons for example in summer, good fucking luck. It's not even a "popular" park compared to Yellowstone or Yosemite and it still had horrible parking issues unless you visit in the off season. If you can't park you can't even begin to get far in and having to start hikes at 4-6 am is not fun the older you get. There's a reason lottery systems exist in some of these parks.

Having gone to a lot of parks over the years and seeing the difference between summer and winter (snow) it is night and day for a lot of them. The idea that a mile or two is all you need is absolute cope at some of them and isn't the core problem.

>>2855362
sounds like the core problem is not building parking garages with enough capacity for all those who wish to visit...

>>2855363
I think a better solution would be more trailheads that are setup in such a way to attract hikers rather than tourists. Teton's is a good example. Lake Jenny has a giant parking lot and has some of the most popular trailheads that most people can do within 2-3 mi iirc. It's always packed in summer and fills early. But if you're there to hike in way further or some of the less popular side trails that hook off Jenny you can park at further trailheads north. Smaller lots, adds several miles to your hike, but are easier to get into because all the tourist are focused on the lot that actually puts them close to the destination rather than having to find alt routes.

>>2855365
Grand Teton definitely has the most annoying crowds and parking situation of any National Park I've been to, they just don't handle them well, it would definitely benefit from a shuttle system like in other parks

>>2855362
>Good fucking luck in any of the popular parks
I go to Yellowstone a lot I never have any problems ever parking at trailheads. Even in high summer. It has 90 different trailheads. Popular overlooks/geo features etc...is a different story but I never go there anymore unless forced to by visiting friends lol. Its so easy to find solitude in yellowstone at anytime of year.

>>2855369
popular overlooks should have more parking

>>2855369
Yellowstone is probably the one good exception. It's massive, it has tons of roadways and parking lots like you mentioned. The parking lots are sized appropriately I would say (the geysers one is massive). Plus since it's a massive park, things are spread out which helps. Yosesmite is probably a great example of a giant park (in size), with poor planning. The valley, despite having a lot of parking is usually packed because all the tourists want to go to that specific spot and a majority of the good trails all start from the valley. Finding places to hike along the Tiaga pass or elsewhere is not that bad, but fuck the valley during peak season.

>>2855373
go tell it to the Nature Conservancy

>>2855362
The parks you mentioned all have less popular trailheads where you can easily get away from people. The parks you mentioned all also allow cross country travel, which means seeing nobody.
>>2855373
Shut up or donate the money for them yourself fatass

>>2855349
>You could spend days in the Grand Canyon and not see anyone else,
I have a hunting cabin for that.
Where i can do anything I feel like.

>>2855397
If you donated money they would just embezzle it. The reason parks suck is that boomers are taking all the money for themselves and not spending a cent of it to improve roads, trails, or parking.

>>2855394
Be fun to scream at them FIX THE TRAILS with a megaphone. Imagine their horrified boomer faces.

>a bunch of people complaining about the crowds within a few hundred feet of parking spaces
>on /out/
Sadly typical

>>2855403
What evidence of embezzlment do you have and why have you not brought it to court or the agency's investigator general?

>>2855403
>If you donated money they would just embezzle it.

>memetake
how ignorant are you? Have you ever held a job?

>>2855433
talked to a lot of boomers who work for state/federal lands
I don't think they give two fucks if the parking lot is too small
that's the next generation's problem

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>>2855434
>talked to a lot of boomers who work for state/federal lands
and they all told you that all donations are embezzled?

>>2855442
no, they just clearly didn't give a fuck about fixing anything and seemed totally detached from their work
I think they just care about a steady job and if the forest is barely accessible and overcrowded they don't give a fuck and if you gave them more money to fix it they would find a way to pocket as much of that as possible

you had this dedicated park/trail building era in the 1930s with the CCC and that all got abandoned, in many cases you still have various remnants of what they built - overlooks and roads and shelters but often left to crumble and get overgrown

>>2855449
sounds like an eastoid problem lol

>>2855449
>be me, mid level resource spec at a national forest office
>have no funding, no seasonals anymore to delegate work
>still have injunctions to manage the land for many uses without funds to do so
>office has to manage resource extraction, forest health, archeological resources, fire and fuels, cultural resources, and lastly recreation
>only manage for the recreation that the local userbase cares about because they are the ones who use the forest the most and there is no money for more
>most of our staff goes on fires as much as they can as its the only way to make money
>admin person gots DOGE'd so I have to work double duty at the front desk
>think I hear a knock at the door, its so weak I can hardly tell.
>in comes this fat ball of a man, clearly from a city out of state
>hear the wood creak as he slowly crosses the floor and hear the ice clink in his stanley cup
>pulls out the latest iphone and points a fat finger to an alltrails map
>asks in the most fem sissy voice ever why there isnt a double wide paved path to an old fire tower
>think to myself that its because hes the first person to ask for it in all the years working there.
>think how it would take years of NEPA review and compliance because the old stuff is all historic now and therefore an archeological resource
>think of how there is no funding or manpower
>think of the ecological impact because thats what the gov pays me to do
>think of how me and other hunters, the largest group of recreation users and the ones who actually pay good money for management, have no problem getting around the area
>not only is it not possible, no one else is asking for it
>look back at this fat face of luxury who had never spent a single day doing actual work outside
>our local senior volunteer group probably does more work for the land than he's ever done
>he wont even want to understand if I try to explain it to him
>brush him off and he pouts and leaves, no one else ever asks about the fire tower ever again