Ukraine holds a unique place in Europe - a vast borderland larger than France, Germany, Spain, or Poland. Historically, whoever controlled this region dominated Eastern Europe, most recently Russia.After the USSR’s collapse, Ukraine was left in limbo, destined to drift either West or East. A Russian–Ukrainian reunification was seen by the EU, US, and NATO as a major threat, since it would restore Russia’s old superpower status and undermine Europe’s global relevance. Hence, heavy propaganda and the Maidan movement were launched to pull Ukraine into the Western sphere.Under Yanukovich, however, Ukraine still leaned toward Russia, which offered trade stability and financial incentives, while the EU offered mostly demands. When it became clear that Putin had won Ukraine’s alignment, a coup removed Yanukovich, sparking civil war.Unable to retake the East through finance or small arms, Kyiv and its Western backers rebuilt a large army for a blitz on Donetsk and Luhansk. Russia responded with preparations for a preemptive strike - the 2022 “Special Military Operation.” After forcing Zelensky to the negotiating table, Europe re-intervened, promising total military support if Ukraine kept fighting.And this is where we stand:>Whoever controls Ukraine holds dominance in Europe.>After the USSR, Ukraine had to choose between East and West.>The West feared Russian reunification and moved to prevent it.>Ukraine initially chose Russia for economic reasons.>Western-backed coup triggered civil war.>Russia prevailed; the West escalated by rebuilding Ukraine’s army.>Russia preempted and won again.>The West turned it into a total war.>Russia is still winning.
>>520481968I would rather be allied with russia than america desu
The "loser" wore it best.
>>520481968>When it became clear that Putin had won Ukraine’s alignment, a coup removed Yanukovich, sparking civil war.mah dude learned about this story through media outlets. As always, to understand a matter you have to indulge yourself into it. You say>offered trade stability and financial incentives, while the EU offered mostly demands. While it isn't the case. You close your eyes to big ass mafia & corruption that even post ussr people were freaking tired of, all having source from kremlin aligned freemason cabal cucks. Did "western" intelligence agencies exploit this feeling and anger of the people? ofcourse, nigger. But they didn't create this is in people's minds. It's like saying this: >clearly evident cabal practices from the western elite>people start getting angry at them>oh noes you faggotz! this is the cia controlling you the elitez are not that bad>they offer you stability :(fuck off faggot you are pushing a narrative of a governmental agency that is literally lead by cabal practicing demon worshipping individuals that are aligned with your so called "West". In reality there isnt a west anymore.
>>520482440>While it isn't the case. You close your eyes to big ass mafia & corruption that even post ussr people were freaking tired of, all having source from kremlin aligned freemason cabal cucks.you argue for depth, and then you proceed shitposting meme-level politicsUkraine and Russia had a unified trade-zone along with a fully compatible industry and infrastructure. Hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians always regularly visited Russia (or stayed there) to earn money and send back home.Ukraine joining EU (even only on a trade level) would mean Russia would have to close its trade border with Ukraine (to protect Russian markets from being flooded with European products that aren't taxed).While Russia was fine with doing so, this would also mean Ukraine would end up with economic devestation, as while Ukraine could sell its products to Russia, nobody in EU wants to buy Ukrainian products.It's fairly simple economics. And it made sense for Ukraine to stick to Russian economic zone. Or choose EU and destroy its own industry. (which in essence, was EU's demand - to make Ukraine useless on the market, in exchange for EU membership and Visas)
>>520482607this was 2 way, 100s of thousands of ruskies also went to ukraine to work, lad.>nobody in EU wants to buy Ukrainian products.but they still do?meme politics? You realise that literally the people of ukraine were tired of shenanigans? You realise that kremlinnigger gangs roamed free and brutalised nationalists & people participating in demonstrations since well before the "maidan" revolution? You realise this all builds up? It aint rocket science you nigger.
>>520482805>this was 2 way, 100s of thousands of ruskies also went to ukraine to work, lad.and why does this matter?As a useless fact, current Commander-in-Chief of the Ukrainian Army (Syrsky) is a Russian, born in Russia, got his military education in Russia, and his relatives still live in Russia to this day.>but they still do?not on a scale that would make Ukrainian a large exporter. Guess why all post-soviet states are generally always subsidized by EU for 30 years since they left USSR?Because the whole point of EU is to keep competitors down, so that France, Germany, UK could remain the economic powerhouses. They literally pay neighbours so neighbour would stay irrelevant.Ukraine was an equal trading partner with Russia, but it loses that status with EU. >brutalised nationalistslolwhatI hope you do realise that "nationalists" in Ukraine are followers of Bandera? Which by some accounts was more inhumane than Hitler.
>>520481968Wait I thought Russia invaded Ukraine to denazify it, or to stop Russian speaking genocide, you're saying Russia lied and it was all geopolitics about power?
>>520482972>Wait I thought Russia invaded Ukraine to denazify it, or to stop Russian speaking genocideyes, because a civil war, or even a Maidan for that matter, would be impossible in Ukraine without NGOs propping up nationalist movements, and then EU politicians turning a blind eye to them. When you have a conflict, you need fighters after all.
>>520482970Here we go, governmental positions. I hope you realise you fags have your days numbered and its all around the globe.
>>520483100what?
A russian rewriting history again? What blew up today in rusland?
>>520483518you're free to correct points mentioned in OP if you find inaccuracies
>>520484109>russia goodboi russia dindu nuffin>west badBut you russians will just continue to lie about everything.
>>520484207i'll repeat again:you're free to correct points mentioned in OP if you find inaccuraciesfor now all you do is cry wolf
>>520484350For starters, there was no "civil war". Only russian invaders. Will you continue to lie about this and everything else, like the russian draft dodger you are?
>>520481968>>520484350>you're free to correct points mentioned in OP>A Russian–Ukrainian reunification was seen by the EU, US, and NATO as a major threat, since it would restore Russia’s old superpower status and undermine Europe’s global relevanceRussia was never a superpower. The Russian Empire, The USSR, sure. But Russia alone, no. So, how would Russia uniting with one of the poorest countries in Europe change anything?
>>520481968fukken saved
>>520484793>Russia was never a superpower. The Russian Empire, The USSR, sure.Russian Empire and USSR had a key component - Ukraine.And Ukraine would be extra 40million population to Russia's current 150million.On top of which Ukraine since Cold War was a heavily-industrialised and heavily militarised state. It could produce rocket engines, missiles, tanks for Russia (because that was Ukraine's role during Cold War).Yes Ukraine started rotting and drowned in corruption since the day it left USSR. But the day it left USSR, Ukraine had more money, more people, more industry, more infrastructure, and more weapons/ammo than any post-soviet nation. And Ukraine was debt free btw when it left. Russia paid for all of Ukraine's debts since then.A reunification between Ukraine and Russia in late 2010s would give Russia the ability to restart empire-level economic activity.But many things changed since the war started, yet there is a different threat for the west now.If Ukraine capitulates, Russia's army will grow by ~1m more soldiers, many of whom have many years of modern war experience.
>>520481968All of them are on illicit drugs.
>>520484548>For starters, there was no "civil war". Only russian invaders.nobody believes this, everyone with at least 2 braincells and some effort knows that Donbass was always heavily pro-Russian and always voted for most hard-line pro-russia candidates for presidency
>>520485722Yep, you just continue to lie about everything like a russian. Next you will probably repeat the lie that Lithuania was uplifted by USSR and benefited from it, instead of the truth that it was looted and devastated by russians for 50 years.
>>520485833>Yep, you just continue to lie about everything like a russian.brainrot arguments in full display>Next you will probably repeat the lie that Lithuania was uplifted by USSRI won't argue for that>instead of the truth that it was looted and devastated by russians for 50 years.but I won't argue for this either. Do you even know what a Lithuania is? It's a tiny village pretending to be a country. There isn't anything to loot here.Soviets gave us our very own Nuclear Power plant. And we could produce our own electricity and sell it to neighbours. After USSR fell apart, our government destroyed that nuclear powerplant and didn't build anything new.Now we buy electricity by x3 times higher prices, and we also keep attacking Belarus for building a new nuclear power planet in Belarus.
>>520485587>A reunification between Ukraine and Russia in late 2010s would give Russia the ability to restart empire-level economic activity.This is an empire-level delusion. The Russian Empire, at its peak, was the third most populous in the world. The USSR once had the second largest GDP in the world. Russia uniting with Ukraine would not bring them even remotely close to that.
>>520486042>GDPnobody cares about this in the 21st centurywhen your GDP is entirely focused on "promises" and no actual real production of input, you're not looking at GDP, but at a pyramid scheme. Look at western economies today. They claim "high GDP" but what does their economy hinge upon? Debt, loans, credit, interest rates, OnlyFans.The biggest output of actual real products in the world is China. Most of western electronics today are fully dependent on Taiwan's factories. Meantime Russia ends up outproducing all of the west in ammunition.Makes you wonder about the whole GDP meme
>>520484548Hey toniblerim, when are you goat fucking invaders leaving my country?
>>520486282That's not secession, it's russian invasion. Secession is what will happen in places like Königsbers or Karelia or Bashkortostan once muscowia collapses.
>>520486454>Secession is what will happen in places like Königsbers or Karelia or Bashkortostan once muscowia collapses.Russia already collapsed in 1991, and there were attempts of some regions to declare independence, but it failed in the end.And you know why?Because Moscow makes most of the money Russia has. While 80% of Russian territory is subsidized by Moscow.If you lack braincells, I will explain.Even if they wanted to seceed, (they don't want to, but let's imagine they wanted to) - they won't survive. Because they don't have their own energy, their own food, their own independent infrastructure. Nothing. Most of Russian territory is inhospitable, and most of Russia's economy is possible only in western Russia - Moscow/St.Petersburg/Volgograd regions
>>520486166You're not really addressing my point, though. What sort of superpower-level abilities would the union of Russia and Ukraine have? For example, the USSR could produce tens of thousands of tanks, thousands of jet fighters, etc. Russia can't do that. Ukraine can't do that. See what I'm getting at?
>>520486647check who produced those tanks, it was Russia+Ukraine, that's my point.Realistically, facts are simple:>Russia has tons of natural resources>Russia has tons of complex heavy industry knowledge>Russia builds nuclear power plants (not just for itself, but for foreign countries on contract)>Russia builds space tech, designs and launches satellites, has its own alternative global coverage system to GPS (Glonas)>Russia has the biggest fleet of nuclear-powered icebreakers (which is equivalent of having a fleet of aircraft carriers, but for economic needs rather than military needs)>Due to northern trade-route opening up, Russia will also become the main transit path for all of world trade (as that path will be shorter and cheaper than the current southern sea route)by comparison to all of this - what does EU have? Nothing. EU's economy is going to shit, EU has no natural resources. EU has no natural/geographic aspects that are interesting for world trade. Nothing.All EU has is a large population. That is slowly dying out and being replaced by foreign cultures.If you look at things objectively:>China has a big future ahead>Russia has a big future ahead>USA maybe has a big future ahead if they figure out how modern economy works, instead of sending money-printers BRRR all the time and driving global inflation through the roofbut EU has no future. It has nothing to offer to the world anymore.
>>520486956>check who produced those tanks, it was Russia+Ukraine, that's my point.But that's exactly _my_ point. It *was* not *is*. They simply do not have that capability any more. Neither are industrial powerhouses, neither are high-tech. The idea that there's some kind of secret potential waiting to be unlocked is simply ludicrous. In reality, would you'd get in Russian Ukraine is something similar to the former "independent" republics of Donetsk and Luhansk - mass looting by Russia-sanctioned oligarchs.
>>520486573>Because Moscow makes most of the money Russia has. While 80% of Russian territory is subsidized by Moscow.Completely incorrect, you delusional russian. Moscow only exists to loot every other region. It has nothing by itself. Every territory that secedes will be way better off. Muscowia by itself will be dirt poor.
>>520487788>But that's exactly _my_ point. It *was* not *is*my point is that it's "not" because Ukraine and Russia are disconnected now
>>520488390you haven't provided a single argument in this entire thread. Crying nonstop about "russia bad" doesn't help you win any people
>>520488390>>520491002if you connect Russia and Ukraine, then you recreate the powerhouse that USSR was
>>520491075This is literally magical thinking. Again - USSR (at times) - 3rd most populous, 2nd in GDP, numerous scientific achievements etc etc. This was a product of specific historical circumstances which cannot be replicated simply by reuniting of two countries.
>>520491033Bashkortostan provides most of the oil moscow needs. If they seceded they could keep it to themselves and become way richer instead of being looted by moscow. You haven't provided a single argument in this entire thread. Just "russia stronk, russia good, west weak, west bad". Russia is weak, an insignificant nobody. That's why you are not returning there and hide in the west instead.
>>520486282>stopping genocide of white people in Europe is le bad>starting genocide of white people in Europe is le goodAverage serbhuman mindset. Kys lingur. You're the same with russians, everything that makes you serbian can't be reconciled with the common white european identity. Being serbian is being anti-white basically.
>>520481968>21 page communist manifesto on why white people bad and how putler will save the white raceFuck off troon.
>>520492462>Free Bashkorostan and Buryatia!!!
>>520492462>Bashkortostan provides most of the oil moscow needsslight correction: Russia provides equipment, engineers and experts to perform oil extraction.Bashkortostan by itself doesn't even know what oil is.
>>520491897>This is literally magical thinkingIf you take the brain, and cut it into 2 piece, it's "literally magical thinking" that left brain can't do shit without help of right brain. And right brain can't do shit without help of left brain.MAGICAL!!! (for midwits)
>>520493680This is more like thinking you can take two old scientists with dementia, and together, their next project will win them the Nobel prize.
>>520493992>This is more like thinking you can take two old scientists with dementia, and together, their next project will win them the Nobel prize.well it seems like Russia can produce Oreshnik, Bulava, Sineva, Burevestnik, anti-satellite weapons, nuclear power plants, mini-nuclear reactors. So I guess this ability is somehow linked to dementia. Got it.
>>520491075Russia had 1/10 the economy of EU, and that was before they started their full scale war. By what zigger magical math would russia become a superpower? It's a weak, dying, insignificant chihuahua.
>>520481968>Whoever controls Ukraine holds dominance in Europe.There's no one country that's the key to Europe. Dominance over Europe is the most fickle thing in history. No one has managed to hold onto it and no one ever will.
>>520494319If Russia is a high-tech powerhouse, why not export it and earn the big bucks? >>520487788Maybe then all the Russians could finally afford indoor plumbing!
>>520494319And the 2000 T14 Armatas. They should be ready and on the battlefield in two more weeks.
>>520481968rent freetake your HIV medication, ruspidor
>>520481968that half wit gets slapped around by his ancient crypt keeper looking hag of a wife as though he were her little bitch late on bringing back the money from his shifts at the brothel.the frogs are even more cucked than the fucking bongs and swedes.even just looking at eurocucks makes me sick
