Libertarianism is still the highest IQ principle. Your attempts to make things better through centralized government will more often than not make things worse.
We don't worship niggers here
>>527317522Your government does and you despise the idea of them having less power.
>>527317522By proper libertarian principles you should be able to have your own white community
>>527317461>labering and limiting yourself is actually high IQ!screamed the retard.
>>527317461>wants freedom>does more capitalismlol idiots
>>527317629>refusing to give names to things is actually high IQ!
>freedom is when you enslave others and are in turn enslaved in order to acquire more propertyhahahahahahahaha I really am Jesus
>>527317754Yeah that is what your flag indicates you believe
>>527317461Yes don't tread on me. It doesn't say "dont tread on Jews and retards picking fights"
>>527317919I have a lot of flags
>>527317919Don't feed the troll. He's trying to become a /pol/ celebrity and the best thing you can do is hide his posts and ignore him.
>>527317951if you're alluding to the minneapolis killings I actually don't have a problem with those.
>>527317461Agreed. Forced integration was the root of all evil. All we need is the return of freedom of association and our problems disappear. Fascists are just emotional retards.
>>527318050I am and it sounds like we would get along. Too many retards pretending like libertarian means being contrarian and hating everything the government does
>>527317461Better than leftists but still retarded. Take the real redpill - the ANCAP pill.
>>527318295So redpill me already.
>>527318257Enforcing border control seems like a legitimate use of government to me. For more it's like being highly skeptical of everything the government proposes to do, since most of the time they'll botch it.
>>527317461
>>527318424We could perfectly automate that nowadays, perhaps supported by a few voluntary militia units. We do not need bloody parasites for that job!
>>527320407Okay. Then do it.
>>527317461On paper, but I still haven't seen an actual functional libertarian society.
>>527320407I don't want killer police robots.
>>527318424Too bad, wanting border and immigration control makes you a fascist. What a predicament libertarians find themselves in, force to allign with the very people they despise.
Libertarianism is as practical as full Marxist Communism, which is to say, it isn't.No one will seize power because... why exactly? Libertarianism falls apart when you realize that someone will always step in to fill a power vacuum, so you might as well make sure they help the people in a symbiotic relationship.Refusing government is like refusing to use a gun in a war against someone, just because you don't use it doesn't mean someone else won't just pick it or or invent one
>>527321385I don't know what "actual libertarian" would mean. I see it in degrees, some countries and areas are more libertarian than others. The US used to be quite libertarian and has gradually become less so over time. It's the general principle of "this shouldn't be handled by the government"
>>527321439I don't despise you brah, I find you fun company. Absolutely I can see the appeal of fascism, I just expect most real-world attempts to make things worse.
>>527317461Libertarianism is essentially political hedonism and as such any society governed by such principles may as well be hell on earth. We need strong convictions and faux pas to keep things interesting.
>>527317678Stfu about capitalism you commie turd.
>>527317461ICE should shoot these people (libertarians spit)
>>527321553This is an argument against anarchy, not libertarianism.
>>527321636We need the government to make mistakes to keep life interesting? Wtf are you talking about leafLibertarianism isn't a governing principle for society, it's a governing principle for the government.
>>527321738How exactly are you going to stop a dictator who the people want to seize power except by oppressing the people?
>>527317522>1st post>minute after OP is made>image that has never been posted on /pol/ beforethis isn't organic
>>527321806With the military? I'm not arguing against the existence of governments dude
>>527321775A government is elected as a representative of the people. This is basic stuff. You are still young and confused if you don't understand the intrinsic value of a flawed system.
>>527321983If your argument against a libertarian approach to government is "it isn't flawed enough" then I'll take the W
>>527321832here's the source:https://www.deviantart.com/rednblacksalamander/art/Snake-Skin-964861543published may 20, 2023
>>527321832>>527322301the image is captioned:>MAGA saw them split the vote in 2020 and decided they would /never/ let that happen again.
>>527322099Not at all. It lacks conviction. Its a pointless exercise. Dedicate your time to something beneficial for your society rather than advocating for what would amount to societal stagnation.
>>527322301>MAGA saw them split the vote in 2020 and decided they would never let that happen again.these lunatics are convinced that MAGA is the next Nazi party, meanwhile the guys on the other side are screaming about how Trump is the most Jewish president ever. Does me head in
>>527322301>>527321832other profiles by same artist:twitter.com/9mmballpointwww.patreon.com/RnBScartoonsko-fi.com/9mmballpoint
>>527321292What shall be my drone budget? :)>>527321395We could use sub-lethal weapon systems. Against civilians at least. That leaves us with a protocol how to handle confirmed criminal elements and foreign agents. Could keep a human factor in the loop. Rest is just how much you gotta lead them ... but frankly, these are internal considerations. Officially I would simply designate a perimeter as autonomous killzone. Good psychological effect on target.
>>527322389yeah. it's /ptg/ shills and military grade Qanon shit.
>>527317461It would be okay if everyone that adhered to it would actually play ball. Libertarians just do the dumbass sovereign citizen bullshit and expect everyone to be chill with it. I understand the thought process, it's just stupid.
>>527322378What do you think libertarianism is?
>>527322392>>527322389>>527322364>>527321832here's the full image for the archives
>>527317461There are only 3 kinds of Lolberts.1. The Spoiled Cat:This lolbert was born with a silver spoon and has no idea what life is like for majority of people. He calls himself a Libertarian, but simply only for freedoms that favor him. He’ll fight tooth and nail for open borders and against things like fire exists, but would never ever be against government bailouts or copyright laws.He is high IQ and only Libertarian to further his own wealth, regardless of the negative impact they have on society.2. The Abused Cat:This lolbert comes from an abuse government and hates the idea of governments since its all they know. This is like when an abused animal is scared of humans because they think all humans are abusive.This lolbert has no idea good governments exist and pretty much believe they are all like the US government.Like with abused animals, they can be healed under the care of good governments like average European government.3. The Retard Cat:Pretty much the type of Lolbert who has no actual reason to be a lolbert. However the Spoiled Cat used his vast wealth to gaslight the retards into supporting things that directly harm them and only benefit corporations.Another difference is that the Retard Cat comes from a poorer family. This is a pretty big difference since lolbertarianism directly fucks him in the ass.When looking for a job, he’ll be the one who has to compete with Nepobabies, Jeets, and AI, and has to deal with ghostjobs and AI hiring managers.He’ll be the one screwed over when his boss gives him 100 weeks with pay checks that barely cover food and shelter (said stuff being from the company he works for).He’ll be the one screwed over when the company cuts the safety budget and gets locked inside a burning building because his boss didn’t want him to have any breaks.He also thinks that if Walmart screws him over, he stands a chance against them.
>>527322463Anarchy with a moral coat of paint
>>527322455There are several libertarian-minded people in my life, none of them are sovereign citizen dumbasses. Every political wing has cringe weirdos like that.(Incidentally I find it funny how the liberals are playing sovereign citizen right now with the Minneapolis news)
>>527322560Aight well if you want to keep arguing against why anarchy is bad you can, but I'm not here shilling for anarchy.
>>527317461Yeah, I think it's like those people who can't conceptualise things. The government tells them they are getting something free and they don't recongise that the government is taking more from them than they are giving.
>>527322603That's fair and I believe you. The issue with libertarians is that it isn't mainstream enough to run on. You'll never see a true libertarian politician, because the movement gets overshadowed by the dummies. I really do believe that most people should be left to their own devices though. For me, a perfect world would be one on which the government empowers citizens to make their own choices. Which we tried to do coming out of WW2, but then everyone got to used to the government solving everyone's problems. That's why people are so stupid today.
>>527322620You ignored the differentiating factor. You want anarchy with the contingent that the populace universally agrees upon a set of variables you have decided on to be moral or just. Again, you are very young and confused if you believe any society is capable of this.
>>527322547Also the Retard Cat full believes Capitalism is merit based, but would also never ever support banning nepo hires, onlyfans (and anything like it), or banning generational wealth.
>>527317461Correct.But I don't think you understand or have accepted fully that the ideals of Libertarianism are only workable in a continent that is 100% under absolute Northwestern European/Nordic Aryan control.I fully accept the ideas of Libertarianism the same way I do National Socialism.But I recognize that both don't have an effective answer to the current crisis. Both ideologies from a practical standpoint don't acknowledge or cope around present realities.I would love to go back to having a free and open Democracy again like my ancestors fought for. But the reality is Libertarianism isn't gonna get it done. Libertarianism will be the end point we gent to once Non-Whites are firmly placed back in a position of submission to the Aryan and to do that it will require levels of religious zealotry, military organization and centralized leadership that would absolutely terrify the average American.Then again I look at PicRel and wonder how any sane White Man could look at this society and go>ew cringewhen it's basically the coolest fucking thing ever.
>>527322547Appreciate and am amused by the effortpost fren. I do believe in conspiracies and am open to the idea that rich people have used their wealth to mind control me into being libertarian, although to me it seems like the rich people are mind controlling people into being Colbert-style democrats
>>527322737The only reason it isn't mainstream enough to run on is because both of our two big political parties are anti-libertarian in one way or another. In reality I think a lot of people agree with the general principle. Some charismatic guy who actually knows where Aleppo is could totally gain a lot of support.
>>527317461>Your attempts to make things better through centralized government will more often than not make things worse.meanwhile you sit around benefiting from the centralized government while saying you don't want it.you're the equivalent of a house cat. completely dependent on your master while playing coy and scratching them every so often.
>>527322786Don't tell me what I want ESL leaf. I want there to be a government that doesn't do as much shit as our current government.
>>527318325>redpill meLibertarianism is the only natural truth, and every single criticism you'll ever see of it amounts to "exaggeration to absurdity" where they carry it to it's extreme and then burn the strawman.No political axis is meant to be implemented purely and blindly. They are all on a spectrum, where SOME decisions LEAN in various directions for various reasons.The most poignant complain against libertarianism is the idea that, taken to it's extreme, there would be no way for a tribal military to form, leaving the atomized individuals defenseless against external invaders.That's a perfect example of what I mean by "exaggeration to absurdity". When you detect an outcome-flaw in a "pure" ideology like that... just don't do that.You can still lean away from authoritarianism (this is the real reason libertarianism is shilled against on /pol/) /pol/s entire purpose for being is to nudge both economic left and economic right towards ONLY authoritarian conclusions. So, of course they had to run libertarians off. It threatens to undermine the entire Hegelian two-party plan. Probably the most effective implementation of libertarianism would be something like a confederated collection of well-paid volunteer national guard militias funded by land owners. (See why they can't have that?)
>>527323076why does a libertarian need to know where Aleppo when libertarianism would mean not giving a fuck about places like Aleppo?
>>527323115You don't know what you want and you type like a nigger. Have fun being a broke loser forever. Good bye small son.
>>527317522If this image were more honest it would not convey that the Alt-Right killed Libertarianism but, rather, that Libertarianism shed it's skin so the White American could survive and became the Alt-Right.In many years of Active Club participation, most of the guys I met who were hard-charging activists were former Libertarians.
>>527323099Surely you don't think you benefit from EVERYTHING the centralized government does.
>>527323158Yes. It still pisses me off that THAT's what took Gary Johnson out in 2016.
>>527318928If Americans had balls or the stomachs and courage of their ancestors we would form militias and make them run for their lives from our shores.Just like that we fix the problem and don't lose any of our civil liberties.Probably get rid of ZOG eventually, too.
>>527317461Lol-bertarians just LOVE complaining and waving the flag and claiming "patriotism" while Obama/Biden are in office...but as soon as someone starts sending in the boots...they start clutching Pearls and wringing hands and resorting to "muh 2nd Ammendment is at stake, bootlickers" like flip flopping democrats.Libertarians prefer comaining on comfort than seeing others, even those they vote for, enacting the change they whined for.
>>527323136>volunteer national guard militiasThe key here being that each sovereignty should be approximately the same size, and their militias comprised of their own people. This balances internal and external force, reducing the chances of warlordism.--At the end of the day, no matter WHAT political or economic ideology you believe exists, the REALITY always is that people will only fight for what they believe in and benefit from.This is why the recruitment shilling on here, what sign tappers are warning against, and why illegals will ultimately be offered amnesty for military service. Because /actual/ Americans are no longer consenting to the Zog plan.
>>527323313Ok but I'm a libertarian but I don't do those thingsThe Libertarian Party sadly is cucked and fucked at the moment.
>>527322922I don't buy it. You remind me of the communists who say they only need a repressive state until they get rid of all class, and then everybody will live in complete freedom afterwards.There is in fact a perfectly libertarian solution to getting rid of your minorities -- stop enforcing civil rights laws and let communities that want to be whites-only freeze out everyone else (the way other ethnic communities do now)
>>527322547I don't wanna be healed by your fucking imposed solution, I wanna peel your fucking skin off and piss on your exposed muscles.I will gladly follow a government like PicRel that actually represents me and mine. Until then everyone else can piss off.I don't care if I die alone - everyone does anyway.The same servile caste of Sub-Whites who suck off the Neo-Leftists Jewish World Order are of the same DNA as those who want Big Daddy Government to fix all their problems.I look forward to listening to your wails of despair when you wake up in my piney forests to realize you are laying in the pools of blood of your squad-mates. I will derive immense pleasure from your sorrow as you realize your best friend's children are now orphans just like mine will be before the war is over.But they will live the sons of a free man and know how we treat tyrants and I will be free of the hellscape lesser Aryans and Jews will make of the world.We tried to stop this and you didn't let us, never forget that.
>>527323378Don't let anons like that get under our skin. They're jews who are continuing the age-old trick of >create the problem>offer authoritarianism as the only solutionPart of how that trick works, is intentionally allowing the problem to fester so long that there are NO good solutions anymore, and then cornering you in desperation.The real solution is to depose the people doing that AND do the hard, slow work to shift back to correctness. "Sudden quick get-rich-scheme black-and-white solutions FUD FUD FUD" are always a deceptive trap designed to quickly capitalize on whatever you willingly sacrifice.
>>527323553>There is in fact a perfectly libertarian solutionAuthoritarianism depends on enforced uniformity.
>>527323555>>527322547Wrong image. I'm drunk - stereotypes exist for a reason, kids.
>>527322922>both don't have an effective answer to the current crisis.That is exactly why the current crises were allowed to fester. It was no accident, and the very same "people" who did it to you are now offering you the "solution".
>>527323553That's about as likely as the average /pol/ NatSoc's Wolfenstein Fantasy.
>>527323745I'm not taking their so I don't know who you think you're talking to right now.
>>527323640Eh I like to hold on hope that I'm talking to real people giving their real opinion. I do wonder about this kind of poster >>527323555 though
>>527323769You mean the government repealing civil rights laws, or ethnically homogenous enclaves forming if we didn't have civil rights laws?
>>527323769>That's about as likely asYou're cornering yourself into begging for a dictator "on your side", but history has shown both:1. every time you think they're on your side, they aren't, and2. their power always wanes, and then the other side gains itNAP exists to break the cycle of Hegelian pendulum-tyrannies. The "all men are created equal clause" and "inalienable rights" are all there to criminalize two wolves dining upon the sheep.
>>527322922The smartest thing to do is to have a mixture of them both.Somethings (such as the military and border) should be under total governmental management, while the market should have more freedom with very tame regulations (like not being able to sell a toddler kek)
>>527323555A fellow reasonable man!! :O
>>527323817>I do wonder about this kind of posterHe's trying to wake people up, raise an army, but he's self contradicting. Look at what he said:>those who want Big Daddy Government to fix all their problems.but also:>I will gladly follow a government like PicRel that actually represents me and mine.He's projecting his unwillingness to die for his beliefs with a loud, graphic virtue signal. He's not entirely wrong though, and he's not deluded. He knows it's gonna be ugly. he's caught in the same corner we all are, and he knows it. Subjugated by International Jewish money power. And he hates it. But his wheel of samsara still turns ever onward.Every single one of us still breathing, still typing here, are The Weak Men.
>>527317461It would be nice in theory but it's way too late for that in our current society. A functional libertarian society requires independent high IQ people in general. We have overwhelming majority retarded and useless degenerates at this point, a society of basically children many of which cannot even count. Even they realize this which is why so many are commies wanting government to be their daddy.Even without the problem of niggers authoritarianism is the only option at this point to turn things around from where we are. They legitimately will require boots on the necks of faggots and micromanagement to make them remotely functional and civilized.Giving normalfags freedom in our current world is like giving a retarded 10 year old freedom to run the streets they have no idea what freedom even means or how to go about living their lives and will just chase impulses and cause chaos.
>>527317522>"we"who the fuck is we? you suburb white trash literally posting in a Asian cultured site, 4 chan is visited by people of all races, one of the most popular international sites in the world, and yet here you are leeching of a website that ALLOWS you the freedom of speech so say nigger, deep down you need 4chan , you need this international website were you post with Arabs, blacks, Asians, whites. latinos , because it's the only site that allows you to speak free -That is how pathetic you are that you don't even have your own aryan website .Instead you have to pretend that 4chan is some pro white site, and it's not , you just are allowed here cause we have free speech unlike your white circlejerk that does not accept different races and cultures But here on 4 chan you will post with us . leftists, blacks, latinos, asiansyou can try to push away the old 4chan culture by using racial attacks verbally here , but 4chan will be always international
>>527324257Idk man, it seems like that on the internet a lot but when I go around in real life most people I meet are reasonably smart and level-headed.
>>527323803>confederacy>one nationanon...
>>527324327>clearly has never been to akron ohio
>>527322396>budgetNo nuh. You don't understand my killers. They do it for the love.https://youtu.be/cy7dNFvtyv4
>>527324400I've been to Canton. Is Akron just as grim?
>>527317461No it's not because libertarians have shown over and over again that they will flood the country with jeets and other undesirables for profit and that only makes life worse for 99% of us so obviously we are going to think that you are a retard.
>>527324327It just depends on where you live. The US is so big that life is different for people in different places. >>Poorest state in that nation that moved to richest state and came back Anon T.
>>527324500Yes. I'm just saying that while most of us ITT have chosen to be around reasonable people where we can largely relax, there are huge swathes of America where the wild ceiling bird chirps freely.
>>527317461I'd say its the lowest IQ principle simply because libertarians are unwilling to ever use govt power to achieve anything, its an ideology that will never lead anywhere
>>527324504>importing immigrants is isolationismwrong. that's an intentionally corrupted form of (((libertarianism))) relying on a perverted application of the NAP. nativist libertarianism is uncorrupted because it correctly recognizes inward immigration as a form of aggression.
>>527324504america was founded by migrants lmao you are actually really low IQ Wait let me guess>muh ancestors of america were europeans yeah Italians, spanish, france , anglos, that also bring blacks and many other cultures, including jewish and arabs, basically a clusterfuck of migrants lmao you are a nation of foreign immigrants, that is litreally how your nation was created
>>527324666Libertarians should use power by criminalizing any form of authoritarian law or system. Use the government solely to protect liberty.
>>527324716>because you were founded some way means you have to keep your doors open foreverfallacy.
>>527324504What do you mean by this? Seems like immigration has only gone up as the US has gotten less libertarian.>>527324716Dumb argument. America was founded by migrants and we btfo the natives in the process. I don't want the same thing to happen to us.
>>527324760Here we also come to the second part of why libertarianism is dumb, their concept of freedom is retarded and its not conducive to creating even a semi functioning society
>>527324666why do you need government power to lead you somewhere?
>>527324760>Use the government solely to protect liberty.Yes, but where liberty is defined locally, not uniformly. We are actually close in this country, where each state has their own constitution and legislatures ... but we have allowed our lines to be blurred and smoothed out too much such that there isn't enough choice. Ideally, there would be LOTS of different kinds of jurisdictions, where you can go find your own people and live your own way, with no federal oversight.
>>527324898because he wants to take from others and exploit the universe around him. he's not content with just living well. he wants to live /better/
>>527317461Libertarianism has a fatal flaw which is the fact that their foundation, the NAP is literally non-enforceable. So basically libertarianism is just pure anarchy larping as something more civilized
>>527324954You mean because in order to prevent people from violating the NAP you need to aggress against them?
>>527324898Because the government is the legitimized monopoly of violence in a country, somebody is going to use it, libertarians will not so its a nothing ideology thats never going anywhere, how will you enforce any rule changes without using government power? Libertarians live in this strange parallel reality that doesn't exist
>>527324954>the NAP is literally non-enforceablefalse. aggression is not violence is not force. they are different. one can use aggression without violation, and one can exercise force without aggression.what's eternally difficult, and will never be resolved by any system, is the subjectivity of "justice" in conflict, so the lazy with no patience conclude that "might makes right" true individualism solves this by never compelling you to think or feel other than your soul decides. authoritarians /hate/ that.
>>527324356Just because it's not a centralized government doesn't mean it's not one nation.
>>527325078I mean I support the existence of laws and enforcement, it's not anarchy
>>527324761It's your fallacy because you keep using the immigrant rethoric, surely borders need control, but this is beyong border control, it's political populism and brainwashing, using immigration as excuse, because people like you that have this blind pride about race are easy to play, trump litreally did that , he knew about certain demographic that like to spam nigger word on the internet because let's face it, you have a problem with native blacks of America , it nreacks your mind.. That blacks and latinos are native Americans born and raised in America, they are representative of real Americans, and this means, blacks, whites , latinos , because that is the American spirit , that's is the real America not some loud white minority of white snowflakes on the internet that can't handle a black hairy pussy
>>527324120You're not entirely wrong but to imply that just because I prefer one kind of government over another I don't support any government at all.Even Libertarianism doesn't decry all forms of government.
>>527325058Correct And also you need some form of entity that manages to more or less consistently enforced it. Almost like a ... government >>527325091So I can just hire goons to kill you, would that violate the NAP? What if I build a massive factory next to your "don't thread on me" house and pollute the river next to you?
>>527325078>the government isin a libertarian system, the government is only the people governed. there is no external imposition. that's the mistake you're making.
>>527324257Seems pretty spot on DESU. This is why I am a Secessionist/Separatist. Let the grown-ups go off on their own and do their own thing.I'd die for that.
never thought i would see the day where an american doesn't know what libertarianism is
>>527325091>true individualism solves this by never compelling you to think or feel other than your soul decideslmao you libertarians are hilarious, what if the things my soul desires are extremely bad for the whole society like spread tranny ideology and be a tranny myself? Some people should not express their individualism imo
>>527325187>And also you need some form of entity that manages to more or less consistently enforced it. Almost like a ... governmentSo you're arguing against anarchy.
>>527324716Every nation today was created by people who moved from somewhere else.Also, because my sobriety is rapidly deteriorating:If you can't find your ancestry in PicRel you are not and never will be American.
>>527325187>So I can just hire goons to kill you, would that violate the NAP? What if I build a massive factory next to your "don't thread on me" house and pollute the river next to you?>What happens?Death.There's no gotchas in your hypothetical. That's all aggression. You violated the NAP.
>>527325297that fucking pyramid eyeball...
>>527325287Yeah no shit, and libertarianism is the same thing retard. read my posts properly
>>527325309>DeathBy whom? Wha are you gonna do against the factory owner lmao?
>>527325335They're not the same thing at all faggot.
>>527325157What kind of changes would you implement then? Lets say you get your ideal libertarian government, what are like the top 2 things that are changed first?>>527325213Thats something that a nazi would say too but I'm guessing we have wildly different definitions of what that means, yeah obviously the government should not be seen as this completely separate entity from the people
>>527325373Igne Natura Renovatur Integra
>>527325379Name literally a single difference
>>527324429Volunteer spirit, lovely!! Would not expect compensation either, just need the tools I need ... ^^
>>527324716No it wasn't, it was primarily high IQ Europeans not dumb third worlders, but that doesn't matter because it is ours and we don't want you in it period so you can take your gay ideology and go find someone else to try and take advantage of.
>>527321943But then ultimately you are destroying the people's right to choose a leader and becoming a tyrant yourself
>>527324954You would think that libertarians would have figured this out by now.
>>527325078>how will you enforce any rule changes without using government power?Hold mein Bier ... :3
>>527325461the difference is in the monopoly on justice
>>527325297>Every nation today was created by people who moved from somewhere else.You just proved my point , we know that there is different cultures and races, but they all originated from the same DNA of the human species, culture is adjacent of the core that the human species is, and you are not the creator, so that add's even more, you are just a human.. And whatever you like it or not, Americans are also black and latinos and white, America is not solely white, there is no such thing .America was always the land of the different races , it was the pioneer nation of the modern world to embrace different cultures in one nation were the identity was not base on race but on being American learn history of America
>>527325606That guy had the right idea, he didn't allow you to express your individuality in a way thats harmful to the german people, all the tranny books and stuff like that were burned. You did have liberties but you also had responsibilities
>>527325461Government still exists in libertarianism it just does less stuff>>527325447>What kind of changes would you implement then? Lets say you get your ideal libertarian government, what are like the top 2 things that are changed first?I don't actually have a good answer to that. There are no individual laws I can think of that are particularly egregious. The last one to really piss me off is the one we've got now where new cars are going to have to be equipped with anti- drunk driving detectors. It's quite difficult to construct new houses over here because there are so many regulations -- and yet I can't actually point out any specific regulation I'd get rid of off the top of my head. I think the department of education made things worse than they were before, I'd axe them. Like I said, instead of having issues with specific laws, it's a death-by-a-thousand cuts thing. I suppose my ideal vision for the US at least is a very limited federal government letting states more or less do their own thing. Active government solutions make a lot of sense to me for cities and states.
>>527325461Anarchy means "there should be no government" and libertarianism does not. Anarchy is an ideology and libertarianism is a guiding principle -- cautiousness when delegating jobs to the government.
>>527325684>Government still exists in libertarianism it just does less stuffNot true libertarianism then >>527325625Neither have a monopoly on justice, so not a difference
>>527325750>Not true libertarianism thenBecause in your retarded dictionary "true libertarianism" is a synonym for anarchy.
>>527325529ahhahahahYou think America was not build by lower income migrants from Europe and other races like blacks and latinos? Who worked in contruction? High q europeans, or average europeans from italy, ireland , litreaaly poor europeans that migrated to america for the american dream learn history
>>527325684He is confusing "ideology" with "form of government", and the distinction lives only in the minds of the governed -- who they grant the monopoly on justice to. It's not a matter of what laws they write, how they purport to be, but rather it's in the actualy details of /how they live, how they think/, individually. Libertarianism need not impose local justice over foreign entities, it merely must defend itself locally. Authoritarian-brains can't get their minds around it.
>>527323287>>527318928Modern Lolberts are basically just your typical garden variety boomer politics. They are no different from "liberals" , "conservatives" or even "socialist". Ultimately various flavors of boomer virtual signalling without substance or will.
>>527325776Ok please enlighten me what a government would do in a TRUE libertarian society and how it would even be libertarianism at all. >inb4 no taxes, it would live on donations So there would be no government, gotcha
>>527324862>>527325078YOU want to use the government to take away people's freedom as these two posts suggests. That's why you're claiming liberty is retarded and that using the government for the purposes of liberty to prevent authoritarian takeovers and guard people's rights wouldn't work.
>>527325839That's like asking what a TRUE sweet drink is. Libertarianism is a sliding scale, not a yes-no thing. We have more libertarian free speech laws over here than you do. The Civil Rights Act was not libertarian and we would be more libertarian if it were repealed.
>>527325839>please enlighten me what a government would do in a TRUE libertarian society and how it would even be libertarianism at all.It would carry out the will of it's constituents.>but what if i disagreeSelf-imposed exile used to be a thing.
>>527325684>I don't actually have a good answer to that. There are no individual laws I can think of that are particularly egregiousClassic case of "lolbertarian doesn't even know what he wants or what lolbertarianism is about"
>>527325949>It would carry out the will of it's constituents.So literally no difference to the status quo? Good job with this nothingburger>but it doesn't carry out MY willLmao
>>527325955I gave several examples of laws I would like to see repealed.
>>527317461>attempts to make things better through centralized government will more often than not make things worset. Two-Digit IQ
>>527325684>letting states more or less do their own thingHow far would you think this should be taken though? Whats the point where federal government stops being a federal government and it becomes equivalent to some of the ''monarchies'' in Europe where the king has no power over anything at all? I dont disagree with the things you're annoyed about btw but I have a wildly different view on how to fix it, you punish the people who were involved in implementing clearly nonsensical and harmful shit and then remove the retarded laws. You like the idea of a localized government because local government often knows best whats going on locally, thats a good rule of thumb that every small time leader learns first, you delegate responsibility and trust the people in charge of whatever area of operation they are at, micromanaging from the top is often bad, this is what they teach in the military which is hypothetically the most hierarchical and authoritarian part of any society
>>527325955>There are no individual laws I can think of that are particularly egregiousThe issue in this country isn't (mostly) the laws. (many of them are regulatory capture and need to be scrapped, but--) the issue is more about adjudication and enforcement. Corrupt politicians and moneyed powers have swiss-cheesed the entire function of obtaining justice (will of the people) such that the majority of what should happen never does. This occurs because the people governed are distanced too far from the decisions they enact, and that occurs through a federalized hierarchy of uniformity coupled with a defanging of the average person's power to enforce.If militias started forming and deputizations occurred, bands of enforcers could roll right into the liars' and thieves' dens and quickly rout them out.
>>527326046>So literally no difference to the status quo?I didn't say >it would CLAIM to carry out the will of it's constituentsi said >it WOULD carry out the will of it's constituentsYou're arguing over theoretical ideologies but I'm talking about actualities.
>>527325915Ofcourse I do, you shouldn't have the freedom to be a communist or a tranny for example, these things are entirely negative wholistically>That's why you're claiming liberty is retardedYeah I dont want to live in a cesspit of a country, some peoples individuality has to be supressed or guided towards something thats not destructive, difficult part is to get people in charge with real moral backbone to actually do that tho
>>527326212>shouldn't this word only has meaning to you. it means nothing to anybody else.
>>527326110Oh I don't even have any plan on how to "fix it". I think it would be great if we had congresspeople who were solely working on getting rid of old laws and regulations instead of adding new ones. Yeah there is always the question of "but how far would you take it", I don't have an answer for that either, I figure it's a "you know it when you see it" type thing. I know that I see we aren't libertarian enough.I do like localized government for that reason. You can actually meet with your mayor, and if he fucks your city up, at least it barely affects the cities around you. It also lets places innovate with new ideas, and the rest of us benefit by noticing the good ones and the bad ones.
>>527326212>You shouldn't have the freedom to be a communistWhat do you mean by that? You shouldn't be able to publish communist writings? I strongly disagree if that's what you mean
>>527326274>I think it would be great if we had congresspeople who were solely working on getting rid of old lawsRemember "repeal five regulations for every one enacted" ? We're living, right now, in the biggest bait-and-switch of all time.
>>527326211>I didn't say>it would CLAIM to carry out the will of it's constituents>i said>it WOULD carry out the will of it's constituentsSmartest lolbertarian, nice 2 digit iq take lmao
>>527317461You're just pedos
>>527326306Every time he says the word "should" or "shouldn't", he's not really saying anything at all.
>>527326335"repeal five regulations for every one enacted"I didn't notice this. I like it. Is it really not being followed through with?
>>527326351You are stuck fixated on the words of the law rather than it's implementation. You imply that someone somewhere can formulate some perfect system with no caveats, but the problems don't always arise in the formulation of the theory of a system.It's the implementation. What really happens. You can call your system whatever name you want. That doesn't mean the defacto outcomes are consistent with your ideology.You asked:>>527325839>what a government would DOYou did not ask what that government would SAY it did.
>>527326420It was one of Donlon Muskrump's original platform planks before they broke up the band over JEW ESS AID
>>527326274Personally I think you are far too libertarian as a country, you should ban a lot of things that are considered an individual right imo and remove those things with an iron fist using legitimate government power, I just dont see any reason why somebody should be allowed to be a communist or a tranny for example>>527326306Yeah thats what I mean, if you disagree with that then you're just dumb, they want to harm you and you advocate for their rights. Its like these retarded libtards who go to Africa to show multiculturalism is actually awesome and then get beheaded as a reward
>>527326603>should
>>527326603>you should ban a lot of things that are considered an individual right imolike what?
>>527326690everything that makes him feel like he's not God of the Universe. he'll use FUD to convince you that's not what he means.
>>527326755I don't see how someone who frequents 4chan can't appreciate the beauty of free speech.
>>527326638I dont know what you want desu, you have to be a little more explicit and explain it to me, otherwise I wont be able to respond>>527326690Lets take the most eggregious example of being a tranny for example, obviously that should not be thing because there are zero even hypothetical positives in that, should we allow people to cut their arms and hands off because they want to be snakes? No, thats grotesque. What I want to do is maximize the cohesiveness of a people in a country to make the country stronger against internal subversion and external threats like other countries for example
>>527317461Yeah it's a great idea until you realize niggers and liberals exist
>>527326212>you shouldn't have the freedom to be a communist or a tranny for exampleOh so you agree with the original post that libertarians should use power by criminalizing any form of authoritarian law or system to protect liberty?E.g. don't fund or promote troon ideology in schools and make it part of the constitution that communist reforms and proposals violates the law. Same logic would apply to religion and far right authoritarian ideology.
>>527326912We do allow people to cut their arms and hands off and that's fine. A law making it illegal to cut your own arm off would be retarded.
>>527327003I don't think being a tranny should be illegal, that's retarded too, but absolutely it shouldn't be promoted in public schools. Private schools can do whatever they want, if you want to send your kid to tranny camp it's your prerogative.
>>527326912>you have to be more explicit and explain it to mesee >>527326271>>527326799he wants to impose his arbitrary uniformity so he can leverage other people's labor for his own protection:>What I want to do is maximize the cohesiveness of a people in a country to make the country stronger against internal subversion and external threats like other countries for exampleevery time he uses the word "should" he is simply attempting to posit a case for his own supremacy; it's the first step of placing his wedge between you and your self determination. He realizes that if you don't acquiesce to his hard line, then he'll never be able to position you into phase two. So he "declares" with full-chested-breath what right and wrong are and watches if you flinch.
>>527317628Your principles never beat the guy with a bigger stick Doesn't make you wrong, it's just not based in reality Communism would be great, just only works in theory The reality is I want my enemies murdered in the streets and anything to that end is a better principleIt just worksI live, they die Anything else is bullshit
>>527317461Libertarians are the raped. Only way to describe this dickless ideology.
>>527327132>I want my enemies murdered in the streetsWhat you actually want, is to live away from your enemies, without their influence and without the threat they pose. There is more than one way to achieve that.>nope i mean what i saidIf what you actually want, is to murder, then you are all of our enemy.
>>527327132Sounds to me like you're advocating for total purge anarchy where you can murder your opponents in the streets
>>527327221he thinks he wants to die for what he says is right but he wants to achieve that by killing whatever he says is wrong (?!)we got a real rambo on our hands.
>>527327211You've been raped.
>>527327003Sure I guess but I completely disagree with libertarians what liberty is, freedom comes from discipline and collectively agreed upon rules not from lack of rules and allowing everything. Disciplined society is orderly a libertarian society is not because your individuality is more important than anything else>Same logic would apply to religion and far right authoritarian ideology.I disagree, religion has many benefits for society but obviously I disagree with the authoritarian ideology part, the greatest societies in human history were always authoritarian>>527327023What about promoting that as something normal and desirable? If a couple billionaires agree to make it a thing it will become a thing just like the tranny stuff, as we can see from covid times most people do not think for themselves at all, they follow what some perceived authority figure tells them to think
>>527327174Not a compelling argument.
>>527327295>FUD as predicted
>>527327066You can easily guess what the impications of my ''should'' is there so yes it does mean things to people who have the capability for the lowest levels of deductive thinking
>>527327310>What about promoting that as something normal and desirable? If a couple billionaires agree to make it a thing it will become a thing just like the tranny stuff, as we can see from covid times most people do not think for themselves at all, they follow what some perceived authority figure tells them to thinkEven in this batshit insane hypothetical where cutting off your hands becomes a tiktok trend, I would still oppose a law making it illegal to cut your hands off, and I would reap the benefits of having hands in a society where a bunch of retards cut theirs off
>>527327278>>527327221anytime someone tells you they want to die for what they think is right, just ask them why they're still alive.
>>527327372>You can easily guessI know. I did. Read the whole thing: >>527327066
>>527327330It is a compelling argument. You just don't understand it because...you are the raped.
>>527327211>What you actually want, is to live away from your enemies, without their influence and without the threat they pose. There is more than one way to achieve that.And just like he said, that's part of the whole "not realistic" issue. They WILL come for you eventually because you're not one of them. They'll either kill you, or subjugate you in some sort of other nebulous fashion (financially, legally, etc). I mean, just ask yourself why all the faggots, trannies, and other barely-humans don't all just stay cooped up in California. Because GROUPS don't want to just be left alone when they grow. The more they grow, the more they want. The more they want, the more they'll be willing to take, even from people who, quite literally have nothing to do with them and their goals or any inkling of going against them. You can't just run away and hide forever if you actually want to partake in any part of society (which almost everyone does). Hiding in the woods only works for an excessively small amount of people that are very specifically psychologically geared towards that desire. So you either dominate your opponents (and future would-be opponents), or they eventually do it to you. No ifs, ands, or buts.
>>527327386So you think the whole tranny thing is ok then?>I would reap the benefits of having hands in a society where a bunch of retards cut theirs offSee this is the crux of my disagreement with libertarians, they only think about themselves and not how it possibly affects large groups of people or the entire country in a long run, thats not how I think at all
>>527317461Great. How do you propose to prevent a zealotry fueled communist vanguard from seizing the reigns of an already too powerful centralized government to liquidate you, big brain?
>>527327517too high IQ for me I guess
>>527327545>ready yourself in quiet fury until they violate the NAP
>>527327589No, I don't think it is ok. There's a lot of stuff that I think is bad but don't think should be illegal.
>>527317678>wants freedom>does more communismlol retards
>>527327595If the government is already too powerful and centralized then that's not really my hypothetical world we're living in.
>>527317461Libertarianism is a joke ideology. Every theoretical libertarian atomized-individual "society" is inevitably going to be conquered by a collectivist one. Your ideology is as ridiculous as pacifism.
>>527327478You are correct but I'm not attempting to assert my own personal supremacy because that is irrelevant, I know for a fact that authoritarian ideologies reign supreme over libertarian ones from historical reality, there are zero succesful libertarian countries from history and there are an insane amount of authoritarian ones at the top of the list, we know some rights from wrongs with almost absolute certainty
>>527327660>hypotheticalGreat. Now answer the question for the real world that you are living in
>>527327628The closest thing we've gotten to perfection is Rhine capitalism and Nordic democracies, literally nobody can refute this.Their ONLY problem has been failing to address the birthrate question and protecting borders. But you can easily imagine a solution which includes solving these issues.
>>527327627So you dont want the government to do anything about the bad things in society? Lmao, how libertarian of you, tell me I understood that wrong
>>527327627see how he works his wedgefirst it's>not okaythen it's>murder who i sayhe wants you to subjugate yourself to his reign.
>>527317461>What do you mean my perspective is supposed to shift when I turn 25?Ah, yes. The sheltered child. Truly the highest of IQs.Need anything to go with your silver spoon?
>>527327728I don't have an answer. How do you propose to do it?
>>527317461You believe competition is a powerful enough motivator to keep businesses in check? I disagree.
>>527327750I don't want the government to do things about every bad thing in society. Cheating on your partner is bad but it shouldn't be illegal.
>>527317461>I should give infinite power to unaccountable stranger politicians to represent me. What could possibly go wrong?People can't think in incentive structures. It requires too much abstractions for the human brain to handle. That's why libertarianism will never become popular.
>>527327821I think the effects of the government keeping those businesses in check lead to negative consequences more often than not.
>>527327795>I don't have an answer.This is why they feared him.
>>527327688This, libertarianism inherently makes a country almost as weak as it can possibly be because your individual rights go above any collective duty, every libertarian thinks they themselves are the most important thing in the world or otherwise they wouldn't be libertarians
>>527327901People who have an ideology and think it will solve every potential problem are retards. The world is a complicated places.
i'd like to hear how you fix potholes and educate kids at scale.
>>527327950The libertarian spirit made our country the most powerful country in the world extremely quickly.
>>527327995>potholesGood role for government -- in theory, in the world we live in there's a shitload of potholes and the government is taking their sweet time>educate kids at scaleLet the states handle it.
>>527327821>Businesses on the free market are evil by default. Government as a violence based monopoly is good by default.What if you tested your criticisms on your own side first? You don't have principles. You have goals.
>>527328014The US is literally built on having MULTIPLE layers of government. Yours is one of the most statist countries in existence.
>>527327995>b-but how am i going to force your kid to believe what i want?!
>>527328094Multiple layers of government whose job it is to restrict the other layers from doing too much. Intentional gridlock.
>>527328069>you care about living and winning, not philosophy!!!!Yes.
>>527328134Oh yeah, how'd that work out when the southern states wanted to secede from the superstate? Mk.ultra? You are coping.
>>527328182>bad things happen>ha! gotcha>you didn't stop the bad things!neither did you.
>>527327826I think it should be illegal, if you make a contract which is what marriage is then you should honor it or get out of the of the contract first and then go do your thing. If I promise to renovate your house but then dont do what I promised I'm held legally responsible to fix damages or even face more consequences if I cant, If you dont intend to honor your word then dont give it or nullify the contract if you cant honor your word due to unforeseen events in your life
>>527328182It worked out poorly, I think the confederates were morally in the right in that war and should have been allowed to secede. It was a violation of our founding principles. Seems like you agree with me.
>>527328014>The libertarian spirit made our country the most powerful country in the world extremely quicklyNice cope, but historically illiterate. Your country became the most powerful due to a combination of factors, such as incredibly advantageous geographic positioning (a shitton of things already stem from that), extension of European culture, European retardation, and so on.
>>527327688>collectivismIs slavery.
>>527328239Yeah I also agree that breaking a contract is bad and should be punished. Cheating on your informal partner is ALSO bad, but it shouldn't be illegal. It was an example of a bad thing that I don't think should be illegal. The government's role is not to police every bad thing, it is to police some bad things.
>>527317461Libertarianism never wins because it loses in thr marketplace of ideas. Prove me wrong
>>527328151>I don't care about philosophy"I’m proud that I have no idea what I’m doing.">living and winningYou call what you’re doing winning? What must it be like when you lose?
>>527328261True, of course it's more than just the one factor, but it definitely played a role.
>>527328014No it didn't, manifest destiny was an explicit government policy to take over land which was seen as almost the religious duty of americans. This is what ultimately allowed the US to start exerting influence regionally, the modern dollar system which made the US a global hegemon was implemented by forcing men to go to war in other continents
>>527317461It's an incoherent "ideology". Lolberts can never explain how it will work in practice
>>527328214Not the point, retard. The federal government is clearly "statist" and not libertarian.>>527328254I don't agree with you, but I disagree with your implication that the US is in any way particularly libertarian or that the federal state structure is anything but an overbearing superstate.
>>527328349eh maybe you're right, I'm talking out of my ass about the history honestlyBedtime for OP. Thanks for the fun discussion all you anons, hope it continues up to bump limit
>>527328296And it will always win against an individualist society, if it could even be called that.
>>527317461Libertarians are just classic liberals until you get into ancaps. Any other system of economic governance is preferable to Neoliberal purgatory. Let me tell you the secret. Libertarianism is essentially what America had until lack of regulation allowed the elite to concentrate their wealth and power. Instead of buying private militaries they had a genius idea. They came together as a class and bought your entire government. Now they have Libertarianism and the rest of us have work in the morning. This of course will always be the end result of a system that allows wealth to concentrate into the hands of very few.
>>527328309Sure, nobody wants a bloated byrocracy but if you want an orderly society rules have to be enforced, the things government is not enforcing should then be enforced by the people themselves or a religious institution or whatever it may be
>>527328338You had it right the first time. Noninterventionism and Libertarian spirit ARE what made this country great, by motivating every man to build for himself. That prosperity was then usured by credit, and then transformed into an interventionist tool of global conquest. This is when everything went down hill and our borders (real, and metaphorical) fell. At that point, our prosperity washed out to sea. Now we are in the post-popped-bubble where the *ahem* creditors have us in receivership, and their goal now is to use their capital to usur some other yellow-skinned country, while letting us sink into the depths of abject poverty and desperation until we lower our asking price to ~$2/day.Only then, when we lack all political will, will they pour money in to build "the machines that are makin' em" and we'll once again be allowed to cook street food with our toes and some good old fashioned road grease.
>>527328545see: >>527328576
>>527328576>motivating every man to build for himselfLol, shittons of money not muh libertarianism values are what motivated people. Or fleeing from persecution in Europe.
>>527317461do something about it. because the aristocats are stomping all over your ass
>>527328776>shittons of money (cheap credit)You are talking about the usury phase I described occurring after the libertarian phase.
>>527328423yeah and you literally evoked a disagreement between a federacy and a confederacy. you're saying that because jews won, that means the situation prior to them winning was Statist. wars don't prove anyone right. they aren't won for ideological reasons. it's typically because of technology and resources.
>>527317522(you) see libertarianism is literally you keep your money and can conduct business how you want which means you end up living in the future where things are advanced and cheap. but the government doesn’t want that. most people aren’t highly intelligent so they gravitate towards socialism and communism. low paid shills are made to shut these threads down.>>527321832They collect images and have them ready to post to hurt libertarian threads. this is how sad their lives are.
>>527317461Will never work in a multicultural society. Requires high IQ altruismIgnores that such a system requires universal consent, without which, it must be enforced using violence. Congratulations you just violated the NAP.Oh, and many of libertarianisms intellectual proponents were jews.
>>527317461we literally became the premier superpower of the world by basically ignoring you faggots and having a massive government that issues taxes, commands a military, and compels you to do all sorts of things. you cannot say you hold a high iq position when you lack basic pattern recognition
>>527328641So your idea is to create a shitty cycle where eventualy a group of elites rise and oppress everyone via wealth always equalling power without significant regulation preventing such? Idk man sounds lame. Left Liberalism has more potential, because at least you would have decentralized groups of appointed officials to be a wedge against concentration of power. Libertarian Socialism is truly high IQ, but I'm not as smart or motivated as Chomsky et al. to be able to envision it. Unfortunately I think we are stuck with big government neoliberalism for the forseeable future.
Libertarianism is a bit of a bait-and-switchAmericans are all natural libertarians. The sentiment of owning your land, being free on your land, having self-sustaining communities. Owning what you earned. This is all true blue Americana. This tendency is something that colors all American politics, minus the godawful immigrants. The other side of libertarianism is the intellectuals from Eastern Europe who hated communism. Their theories are all just butthurt reactions to how shitty the communist government was. All of them are jews: Ayn Rand, Murray Rothbard, Ludwig von Mises. This type of libertarianism is really just philosophy. They put a stake in the ground with some "first principles", then bandy words to defend those principles to the death, inflexibly. The arguments get really convoluted and torturous at times, which does appeal to budding young econ students. It doesn't measure up to reality because those "first princples" they established don't conform exactly to human nature, which is limited in a lot of ways.
its insane how you can literally exist in the objectively most powerful place on the planet where your hierarchy of needs is met, trivially so, and you think your gay little system is just going to be better lmaoooo YOU'D FUCK IT ALL UP LOLthis is like seeing a korean with 3000 apm running an insane starcraft 2 base in a 300 year long game and you're just like "move over buddy ill take it from here, i read once that you can actually do this entirely differently and also im going to do it"
>>527329346>true libertarianism is when I own stuff Amerimutts strike again
>>527329540The divide in Libertarianism is characterized by a left/right divide. The right wing libertarians are much more interested in setting up self-sustaining homesteaded communities free from the Federal Government. They are the descendants of pioneers, homesteaders, settlers. They emphasize self-sufficiency, plenty of them are off-the-grid. The left wing libertarians are more concerned with using these principles as an excuse to use drugs, get abortions, and break the law. The business libertarians are looking for their moral excuse to rip people off, and make huge sums of money without feeling ashamed. They use the writings of Mises, or Rothbard, as their intellectual backstop to break morality without feeling bad about it. Libertarianism is natural to American thinking, but this weird philosophical stuff has been tacked onto it, and is kind of alienating. The appeal is somewhat limited to first year econ students who heard TANSTAAFL for the first time.
