Is it possible to secularize and modernize Islam to make it plausible for the modern world? Islam is too restrictive, Sharia law made it very difficult to live in Muslim countries.At what point the Islamic world would become like the West? Where there's freedom of speech and religious tolerance, rights for LGBT, women and minorities, democracy, secularism, liberalism etc.
>Gotta have my degeneracy
Funnily enough, it's the reverse that occured. Islam started strict, became libertine and THEN became strict again suspiciously
>>533098940Islam is a parasitic religion, cut them off from foreign money(oil and tourism), it will stop existing.
>>533098991Jews are evil
>>533098940First you destroy petro-islam/israel/usa and go from there
>>533098940Faggots still think they'll nuter the muzzies if they just ply them with enough Netflix and McDonald's
everything the west has is because we are more intelligent. islam isn't the cause, it's a symptom of low arab iq. you people can only function when ruled by an iron fist, you can't handle the responsibilities of liberty, most europeans can't either as they are subhumans too
>>533098940God I hope not.Every time I see the average white American woman out in public, I wonder if there's a way to bring Islam to Marion County, Tennessee.(Islam minus niggers, that is. Swear to God one in four of these hambeasts has at least one mutt with her.)
>>533098940Sure, it’d happen naturally when taken into more progressive regions, just like it happened to christianity. When people have enough liberties the script flips and it’s religion that needs to adapt to them in order to survive.
>>533098940Sharia law isn't a part of Islam, it's nowhere in the Quran and came after 400 years after Islam was founded. Any religion could do Sharia Law, it's a law by governments, not a religious doctrine.
>>533099206>most europeans can't either as they are subhumans tooJews are right about goyim.
>>533098940delusions of secularism is the muslims equivalent of esau gambit.putting on a show of 'we can be better' so you tolerate them jihading you.
>>533099206Wasn't Christianity also restrictive like Islam during the medieval period?>>533099244A life without freedom is worse than death.
>>533100852Yes it was. And crusades were like jihad
What you think is Islam isn't really Islam.What you think is Islamic theology isn't really Islamic theology.Just as a false deity can never replace The-God, a false version of Islam can never replace true Islam. That goes for today, tomorrow and yesterday.
>>533100852>A life without freedom is worse than death.Nah. If freedom means feminism, tattoos, niggers, and niggerish white trash behavior then I want back in the Dark Ages.
>>533101905i'm interestedwhat is islam if what i think islam isn't islamsince what i think islam is based in the quran and sunnah?please go aheadand if you give me a bunch of gibberish you the real islam and its allah AND its mohammed losesthank you
>>533098982wait i'm confused now............................................is islam against degeneracy?
>>533099268>the law of allah isn't part of islamthis one's for all the Muzelimese out there..............
>>533098940I starts with symbolically burning the quran, drawing Mohammed and burning him.Not because you reject it but because you recognise its vulnerability and imperfection.
>>533098940No. Browns are too low IQ
the ummahe is literally disintegrating before your eyesyou have Muzelimese saying all this insane shit>>533103190>>533103292quran only retardsmuhe culturale Muzelimese who don't know the first thing about shitslam, which means they are munafiqueand these are the ones that don't abandon it outrightimagine an ism that DIES because of the people learning more about itayyeth lmaothousadde
>>533098940Secularization and modernization are Christian, European historical processes. They're not really something that can be applied to arbitrary other entities such as islam. It's like asking if the Ummah needs a Gamergate, or if Iran should consider Brexit. Apples and oranges.
>>533098940Yes, Ataturk did it in Turkey.
>>533103747We will have LGBT flags in mosques soon, don't worry anon.
>>533103908yeah, you give poverty stricken, corrupt hellholes (an islamic country) free speech, and shitslam literally chokes on its imamsfreedom of speech not having is exactly how shitslam stays alivemashadasha this is a mircile of al-issssssssleeeeeeeme
>>533098940>t. Globohomo evil jew
>>533098940Your religion tells you to die for an old man who is promising you virgins after death.Secularism admits you are gonna die for nothing.That is the intelligent part.
>>533098940> West? Where there's freedom of speech and religious tolerance, rights for LGBT, women and minorities, democracy, secularism, liberalism etc.The middle east had this, but they tried to improve the lives of muslims by taxing british/american oil extraction. So America and the Anglos decided to support theocrats and terrorists who would sell cheap oil. Intellectually, Islam is fully compatable with secular life in the same way the other Abrahamic religions are
>>533104026every Muzelime is already literally a homosexualthe faggalini don't need the representation of flags in mosqueses, the quran and sunnahe is the flag
>>533098940>Is it possible to secularize and modernize Islam to make it plausible for the modern world?No.
>>533104113look, see this retarded Muzelime right here?you just said globohomowasn't mohammade, whose conquer the world religion, a homosexual?
>>533104048Muslim races can not handle free speech
>>533104294>whosewith his*
>>533098940>secularize morality This is by far the dumbest concept for two reasons.>it is comically unaware that secularizing something doesn’t actually improve it, it’s the equivalent of swapping the antagonist for a different one. >considering the basis for religion is that there is a moral law for sentient beings the ontology of religion being necessary itself implies that not only will secularism not fix anything, but religion being formed after the fact implies it can’t fix it either. Man’s problem solving ability cannot fix the source of the problem if it’s an after-thought response to an issue man cannot control. This basically means that overtime the only consistent factor in anything is more government and religion as a result of problem-solution. Secularism is dialectically linked to religion and thusly even if secularism were to get rid of religion the vacuum created will literally just add another, proving historians correct again. The problem of morality is entirely exclusive to mankind. The Bible addressed this in Genesis 3 as well as it could in layman’s terms. The knowledge of good and evil is a moralist dialectic, and implies that mankind seeks to fix himself out of a guilty conscience because he knows good and yet does evil. The resulting systems built by him to correct this only further increase the capability for evil exponentially, forming what is referred to as a tower of Babylon. Ted Kacynski argued that technology eroded moral fortitude because it simplified the effort needed to do more destructive things. In the book the tower is destroyed, whether you interpret it symbolically, literally or figuratively, is almost entirely irrelevant that it’s universally conveying mankind’s hubris, and that it consistently causes crises to occur despite our best efforts to prevent them. The book was never advocating for religion or government. These were brought in later after the fall to try and rectify sin.
>>533104935are you saying the bible does not advocate for religion or government?
>>533104294I think every country and civilization did conquests and expansions. The problem is that Islam is regarded as an inferior culture, for example Europeans also conquered a lot of lands but no one condemns them as they are regarded as superior. If Islam was a superior culture everyone will praise it like Christianity and the West today.
>>533098940>>>/trash/
>>533105182britain subdued a savage world following the command of God to subdue a savage world it's working on a thing to improve it for everybodystand aside, savage, while i rid you of your lawless brutes and give you infrastructure only a retarded Muzelime would take issue with this, BECAUSE it wasn't his caliph doing it, it meaning not bringing about law and public service, but rather, taking all the money as if it was in exchange for law and service
>>533105162If all of mankind sins, and Jesus unironically tells you in a blatant generalized statement that cannot be taken out of context, and still override any attempt of subverting it.“No one is Good but God alone.” Then morality cannot fix the issue presented, God has to do it himself and that’s precisely what Christ did at the cross. Religion is a satanic counterfeit, where man tries to justify himself despite being a sinner and already being disqualified by a perfect law. It’s just evil pretending to be good. Secularism is just ignoring it all together. Religion didn’t exist before the fall, and if it did it would have been considered redundant. This shouldn’t count as heresy, and to a large majority of professing “Christians”, they’ll consider it to be because they don’t believe what Jesus did was enough.Paul explains that the more you try to correct the problem with the law, you just strengthen the ability for you to commit evil simultaneously. This is literally what Kaczynski was picking up on but didn’t connect it to the Bible. In other words anon, religion in this case is advocating for mankind to try and fix the issue himself when he already can’t based on the commandments God gave Moses. So it’s not an instruction of religion. It’s a call to faith in God. This doesn’t require you to do anything because you can’t. Belief is a verb that applies to merely accepting something as a fact. The book refers to the mere acknowledgement of the cross as humbling yourself, which in the bigger picture, actively resists religion and government getting bigger, because you’re no longer playing into the guilt knowing God did it for you.
>>533105725my frienddo you know whatthe great commission is?
>>533105376I want to know your own take about Islam, if we change the whole religion (maybe even altering the Quran and the hadith) removing all the violence and backwardness that it has, would it be better? Is a all-out reformation possible?
>>533105930do you really not understand how silly this inquiry is?why must you cling to islamif you have to CHANGE quran and hadithisn't there the bible?no, a muhe reformation is not possiblebecause the retarded commands and utterances of mohammade, who is allah, are CLEARshitslam is EXACTLY where it's supposed to be todaythe q'ringe and sunnahewhich produces a Muzelimeare BLUEPRINTS for islamic shitholes
>>533098940What difficulties did you have in Muslim countries? I never had any. Did you try to whore yourself out in the nightlife district or sell drugs to school kids or something like that?
>>533106151what are you doing in the germany of the kuffar, retard?
>>533105805Do you ever think to realize that Jesus is the one who’s doing the work the entire time? >without me you can do nothing. The church is only the church because it believes. In who? Paul will tell you it’s Christ in you doing everything and showing you everything. The flesh is dead. We were crucified with Jesus. The law is fulfilled. The only obstacle left is death. With the issue stemming from unbelief, which is the spiritual form of death. “The soul that sins, shall surely die.” A soul sinning is akin to blasphemy of the holyspirit. You refuse to believe the one thing that saves. You referencing the commission implies you believe that you and I are doing anything other than what we would already be doing without faith in Christ. Read the parable of the vineyard workers. Salvation isn’t a wage, yet all the workers are being paid the same.
>>533106228>nooo, don't listen to what Jesus said it's best to dismiss that one because it doesn't work with this spiel i've been onok
>>533106352>the commission requires religion Your definition of religion is skewed toward promoting legalism rather than shunning it.
Everytime someone opens an Islam thread on /pol/, hooligans with Turkish flags show up, shit on the table and attack everyone with primitive NAFOesque insults. Why is that? Is there a zogbot military base in Turkey?
>>533106514i replied to a postin which you said>we make religion and government because we are misinterpreting God in the biblecan you confirm that this is what you said?
>>533106603you keep saying NAFOesque insultwhat is this? i know nafo is what? trannies that are against russia in ukraine?i don't frequent comfy whatever the cringe shit in ukraine threads, never have, never going tolet's have a conversation here
>>533106144I don't know anon, I believe Islam exists for a reason. You believe in God so God allowed Islam for a reason. We can't just dismiss Islam altogether we need to find a solution so it wouldn't hurt Muslim countries more than it did. Muslim countries are slowly leaving Islam so Islam will need to change in order to survive.
>>533106622Link the post so I know you didn’t just paraphrase something to give your rebuttal room.
>>533106837you have 5 posts in this threadthis one being one of the 5and you're seriously asking me that?here>>533105162
>>533106798>I believe shitslam exists for a reasonyeah, it's what Jesus returns to destroythe beast system (globohomo)needs a false prophet, which beheads people solely over their testimony of Jesus as Goddoes this ring any bells?
>>533098991Nothing suspicious about it. During the Golden Age they allowed women to run free, dress like whores, take administrative positions. The result was utter chaos and societal collapse in less than a hundred years. Anarchic conditions under which no woman was safe outside the house anymore. They learned from that mistake. They're not going to make it again. Women need to be regulated for a civilization to survive.
>>533107131why are you in germany thoughhey is this a mircile of al-isssleeeeme do you think?a Muzelime retard making all this ass speech living in the germany of the dog kuffar instead of a sharia afghanistane?
>>533106943>links his own post and implied my response to it contains his paraphrasement which completely misrepresents the situation. You can say man is misunderstanding what God wants but only when taking into account that Satan is the author of confusion. The only reason why religion would be allowed in this case is because Satan actively uses it to gatekeep. Matthew 23:13 is Jesus blatantly calling priests gatekeepers in layman’s terms. Religion is something that actively tries to stop Christ. It conspires against him, to the point of crucifying him under false pretense using secularist authorities as a vector to do it. Religion can literally only get bigger when something bad happens. This in of itself implies that religion benefits dialectically off of evil and this being the case implies that religion is just man pretending to be good. You are ignoring the general statement that Jesus made to the rich ruler about God being the one who’s good. Jesus just flat out said that everyone is evil except for God. There’s no way around this.
>>533107327are you trying to argue that>salvationwhich can only come by Jesustherefore you don't try to earn it because you can'tmakes>religion and governance on earth unnecessary and even satanic, because Jesus already finished His work on the cross?are you being serious?
>>533107524here it comes the part where you fundamentally pretend like salvation and behavior are linked anyway while also pretending like I’m advocating for you to murder people. You literally wouldn’t be implying it if you didn’t already know evil, so exactly what about what I said regarding the difference between salvation and a counterfeit using religion to pretend to be good, has anything to do with mankind not trying to kill people for a completely different reason other than trying to make it to heaven? It’s disingenuous at best anon. Because now it seems shallow as fuck as to the only reason why I wouldn’t want to kill you is self motivated and it’s entirely fake given the only thing that is keeping me from murdering people is hellfire rather than a assurance that it has nothing to do with what I do and a general disdain for sin because it puts people who don’t believe in danger. The motivation is the difference here and you’re claiming religion, which is something that never saved anyone, is now necessary for salvation when they contradict each other given one literally plotted to have Jesus murdered. You can see how well religion did when it stopped Jesus from being crucified, oh wait.
>>533108012my friendlet's run with your amazing modellet's say we interpret the bible correctly and after Jesus, we have no religion or governmentthe Muzelime come and eat christendomand the praise of Jesus as God by the breath of man's lips dies out what nou?how old are you?
>>533108211 Religion doesn’t destroy evil anon, it grifts off of its existence, and pretends to solve it with works that require constant effort. God is literally the only one that is capable of fixing the problem. You are fundementally misunderstanding what I’m saying and classifying that because I simply believe what Jesus said to the ruler, that I am now naive, for believing that the same type of people who plotted to have him murdered are now the pillar of the community just because they restrain the urge to rape children, and think highly of themselves because they don’t get caught when they do. I’m middle aged, and for the record, Christianity isn’t doing anything to stop social disputes, because Satan is subtle and a religion using the term “Christ” in its name is too easy. If you read Timothy, he describes what Paul said, in the end, people with have a godly outward appearance but deny the very thing that would make them godly. They don’t believe and it’s clear why, they trust themselves over what Jesus did and they’re merely pretending to be good. It’s no different of an analysis and critique that Jesus gave the priests, just as he described them as regal coffins filled with deadman’s bones. >That’s great, you attempt to behave but you’re still going to hell for sinning. >what I would like you to do, is fucking believe >all I can do is MOR RELIGION
>>533098940It's simple, reject the hadith that Allah never gave and it is perfectly compatible just like Allah intended so long ago.
>>533108761i don't understandthere is no religionthere is no governanceand the Muzelimese ate the christendomwhat do we do? do you not understand how stupid what you're saying is?of course you need religion of course you need governmenti am giving you real life example of exactly why you need themso either explain howor maybe stop making retarded posts onlinemaking people think christians are retardedwith yourlow iq religiosity thanksthe great commission, this is a commandment from Jesus who is God, it's literally exactly what i said to you right from the start, but you kept typing walls of text at me, i think maybe your favorite youtube content christian really did a number on you and you're a like an impressionable 22 year oldhey, stop being retarded, please,thank you
>>533108788lmao
>>533109087You don’t get it. You don’t need them to be saved. You never did and they can’t save you anyway. It’s Satan gaslighting you with a law man cannot keep and using them to gatekeep you from simply believing that what Jesus did was enough. You’re fearing mongering off of a hypothetical that’s implying God is a liar. Implying that I’m calling him one.
>>533108788There's this movement of Quranists that reject the Hadith and rely solely on the Quran, some just end up leaving Islam or have their own interpretation of Islam.Well personally I don't care about religion itself, I hate theocracy. If Islam didn't have a theocratic system I wouldn't have a problem with it. If the Caliphate remained we would've a different Islam than today.
>>533098940It's deliberately designed to resist rational interpretations. This is why the mutazilites failed and why quranists are powerless.>>533099063/thread
>>533109307We would've had*
>>533109138You don't even know what to believe in so you believe in everything all at once.
>>533109300>You don’t need them to be saved.>>533107524you can leave me alone now
>>533098940kike
>>533109440does allah know what he created first?was it heavens or the earth?
>>533109444Once again, your definition of religion requires it to be saved. You responded to my quip about salvation when I used the term religion in a negative light. You are implying by reacting this way, that I’m insinuating, implying or blatantly stating that mankind should kill, rape, steal or fornicate just because Grace has nothing to do with the law. Is that correct?
>>533109307Most quranists end up leaving islam (as I did). As some point belief in islam becomes nothing more than a political drive to attempt to control people, and when you stop believing even in that, it's over.
>>533109741no retardi'm not implying anythingother than making this post at you>>533108211now address itor leavedo not make another wall of text, i'm simply not interestedeither engage with me based on YOUR argumentor leave me alone pleaseand thank you
>>533109307It's usually the other way around, or they weren't taught about the religion to begin with or in a very bad way. Unironically a lot of the overlap we have with crossclown and judeo theology is hadith nonsense from converts confusing christianity or Judaism with Islam.Or it just goes against the Qur'an which is braindamaged.>>533109594Miracle of mangod. The entire book is shitted up and nobody is answering prayers lmfao
>>533109949retarded pedophile worshipping monkey what did allah create firstwas it heavensor the earthanswer it, retarded pedophile worshipperYOU brought it upas you always doayyeth lmaothouRETARD
>>533109800I also left christianity for islam. My cheeks were red turning all the time.
>>533109800It's worth mentioning that Islamic Caliphates tried to reinterpret Islam and make it civilized. Sadly the decline of the Middle East and the rise of fanaticism made Islam very bad today. Islam could've been like Christianity or Judaism if they retained their scientific and cultural hubs.
>>533103908Agreed. A more philosophically refined form of Islam, combined with social reforms and openness to technical developments, would probably be ideal for Muslim countries. The key religious texts are virtually unchangeable, so it's a matter of good leadership and scholarly interpretation.If someone from that cultural sphere needs "modern degenerate" stuff, they'd pretty much have to abandon the actual teachings. Then prepare for a major identity crisis like Otto Weininger (self-hating, albeit insightful Jewish thinker).
>>533109882Your hypothetical as I said, implies that God’s word can be broken. You are literally tying religion of the Christian flavor being destroyed as somehow God being defeated. They are not even linked. You’re implying religion is required to be saved. God literally defended Israel from an entire army single-handedly. He doesn’t need a religion of sinners pretending to be good to keep the gospel from being destroyed. He tells believers to simply occupy until he comes get them. Your faith is in religion. Not God.
Because of retards like OP thinking that progress is a lifestyle rather than a societal change. Most of those enlightened retards from Islamic countries think on an individual level, the progress they desire is self-centered fantasy and instead of asking what can be done to solve society's most basic needs, they start from the top demanding the fruits of another society's progress without actually taking into account the needs of their own society. It's all about themselves, about now. Religion isn't the problem, it's the hapless retards who can't give answers to society. People will look up to god if they can't have justice, food and housing security, and that won't suddenly change because they start allowing retards like OP to take it in the ass. Religion adapts to the times, god is strong when society is weak. It's a simple equation.
>>533110064oh i thought it was because you are literally a cuckold and you found that this doesn't work in christianityoh shit, did you tell that to me in confidencehey why am i still typingi should stop before i out you as a cuckoldohh noo i'm even adding the picrel so that now everyone will see how this isn't an adhoceeeee attack on a Muzelimebut rather, how someone literally has to be a literal cuckold in order to be a Muzelimei'm so sadde, I did thiswell, mohammade did it,wow i'm still typing?????????????????????????????????
>>533110064Interesting, if we remove the political side of Islam and followed mysticism it would be great.
>>533110206you are breaking God's word when you are telling me to dismiss God's commandment when i point out to it to debunk your retarded take you absorbed from your favorite youtube christian content guyit doesn't work for you SO hard that you have to DISMISS the final commandment from YOUR Godnow leave me alone
>>533110142You don't understand just how bad the Qur'an is. They were better before islam came.
>>533110064Sure you did Ahmed. Only criminals in prisons, bullied social rejects, and slaves convert to Islam.
>>533110467>Only criminals in prisons, bullied social rejects, and slaves convert to Islam.but this is a mircile, ashckshually OF issssleeeme i was told?
>>533110449Yeah but Islam was going to happen anyways. Even if we remove Islam it wouldn't solve anything, global powers and corrupt rulers will find another excuse to wage war and control the population. Islam is just the scapegoat for their schemes. We need a radical change, a revolution against everything, so we would ensure our future. We need to be smart and brilliant!
>>533110997nono barraddarr look see the guys before were all munafiqueen they weren't Drvly Muzelimese i swear by allahwhat we need is Drve isssssleeeeeeeemewhat we need is sharia masha dasha hubba hubba, homina homina durk!lmao, retardhave a nice the rest of your amazing thread
