"We gave categorical assurances to Gorbachov that if a united Germany could remain in NATO, NATO would not be moved eastward" https://x.com/ricwe123/status/2056310364728434791?s=61
>>535371939Kissinger was right. America is in a better position today because of it.
>>535371939And? Russians are weak, they don’t make the rules
>>535372191People who are anti NATO don't know how to deal with Russians. Or Chinese.
If it's not signed on paper, it doesn't exist.
>>535371939Yes, NATO are just a pack of rabid Jewish rapists trying to blackmail their way into seizing Russia's natural resources.Picrel, is anybody surprised?
>>535372269Well, we agree on a price and sell or buy appropriately. It's really not that hard.
thread themehttps://youtu.be/SQgdfJoxX1s?si=z55GzH9G4QtozjJh
>>535372384You are a leftist. And brown.
>>535372004
>>535372413> siseñor, I ...
>>535371939No such assurances were given or agreed to.What he's referring to is that NATO in an unified Germany would not move eastward. And it hasn't, because to this day, there are zero foreign military bases within the former East Germany.You can see the locations of current and former NATO bases here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_Army_installations_in_GermanyYou ziggers can stop posting this false narrative now.
>>535372477Why aren't Americans fighting in the Middle East then? Why haven't they put boots down in gaza, Lebanon or Syria?
>>535372562No, he said "NATO would not be moved eastward". Seems clear as day
>>535371939>promises to a country that doesnt exist
>>535372794typical kikes trying to forego deals based on technicalities.
>>535372791>Schweinskopfsülze
>>535372745Does it make you seethe, Ivan?
>>535372745Yes, an ambassador said that to a journalist. You can't be so retarded that you don't understand what the difference is.
>>535372842>We gave categorical assurances to GorbachovEnglish seems to be too difficult for you.
>>535372870He can say that they gave the moon to Gorbachov, but it does not make it so when the actual agreements that were in writing did not give the moon to Gorbachov.
>>535372745Yeah, it's called the Two Plus Four Agreementit's still law to this day, you fucking retarded bugmanGuess what happened after the Two Plus Four Agreement?The USSR collapsed and all of the former Soviet states wanted to be in NATOThere was no agreement that former Soviet states, excluding the former east, not host NATO basesMaybe the communist subhuman empire shouldn't have collapsed and have states declare independence if they wanted a say in what defensive alliances they join, you stupid bugman?
>>535372717We only have about 1.5 million active service and reserves. We would need a draft or an event like 9/11 before more people enlist. Another big problem the U.S. has now is that we are so racially, ethnically and religiously divided, nobody really feels there’s anything to fight for. It’s better to just flee the country if there is a war since there is culture or unified people to defend.
>>535372842>>535372562https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogM0EjYbPRk>Hans Dietrich Genscher (German Foreign Minister and Vice Chancellor), alongside James Baker (US Secretary of State).> "We have agreed not to expand NATO's defense area to the east. This applies not only to the GDR, but in general.">This applies not only to the GDR, but in general."
>>535371939A HIVan opens it mouth and it lies.Nothing new here, shouldn't have lost the cold war then you eternal losers.
>>535372909Ok cool so you subhumans can stop whining about the judapeat memorandum now
>>535372923>There was no agreement that former Soviet states, excluding the former east, not host NATO basesSee>>535372974
>>535372966>the U.S. has now is that we are so racially, ethnically and religiously divided, nobody really feels there’s anything to fight for.That's why they fund Israel to do the fighting. Do you get it now?
>>535372923If the whole point of NATO was to defend against the Soviet Union and it collapsed, then why keep the alliance? The point after the collapse was to control Europe and keep Russia isolated.
>>535372974What the fuck say does the German Foreign Minister and Vice Chancellor have over former soviet states, you retarded bugman? Can you explain?The Two Plus Four Agreement is public. You can go read what everyone signed.>https://www.rbth.com/international/2014/10/16/mikhail_gorbachev_i_am_against_all_walls_40673.html>The interviewer asked why Gorbachev did not “insist that the promises made to you [Gorbachev]—particularly U.S. Secretary of State James Baker’s promise that NATO would not expand into the East—be legally encoded?” Gorbachev replied: “The topic of ‘NATO expansion’ was not discussed at all, and it wasn’t brought up in those years. … Another issue we brought up was discussed: making sure that NATO’s military structures would not advance and that additional armed forces would not be deployed on the territory of the then-GDR after German reunification. Baker’s statement was made in that context… Everything that could have been and needed to be done to solidify that political obligation was done. And fulfilled.”>Gorbachev continued that “The agreement on a final settlement with Germany said that no new military structures would be created in the eastern part of the country; no additional troops would be deployed; no weapons of mass destruction would be placed there. It has been obeyed all these years.” To be sure, the former Soviet president criticized NATO enlargement and called it a violation of the spirit of the assurances given Moscow in 1990, but he made clear there was no promise regarding broader enlargement.Straight from Gorbachev.You are a retarded subhuman.
>>535372249>Americans will protect us if the Russians attackLad, NATO is just a deal to get weapons and shit, and we can't outproduce Russia and China, nobody is going to fight in Romania, Poland or the Baltics if they are attacked. maybe if they reach Germany US would move some trooops there.
>>535372004>reddit dog postopinion ignored
>>535373159On top of that losers can't be choosers.If Soviet subhumans didn't like the outcome then they shouldn't have lost, it is simple as that.
>>535373159>but he made clear there was no promise regarding broader enlargement.See>>535372974There were promises who got broken>What the fuck say does the German Foreign Minister and Vice Chancellor have over former soviet statesClearly they had a say over negotiations, as they arrived to a deal that said they would not expand NATO to the East, which they broke
>>535371939Well kikes Are in charge and perfidious behavior is all they know. Retarded Russians never learning any lessons.
>>535373122>The point after the collapse was to control Europe and keep Russia isolated.Because Russians are subhumans and will always try shit, as you can see with their attempts in Ukraine.In fact, it is actual criminals in Germany and France, Merkel and Sarkozy, who prevented Ukraine from entering NATO in the early 2000s.Sarkozy is a convicted criminal and Merkel might as well be with how she sealed the fate of German nuclear energy.
>>535373122> Then why keep the alliance?Just in case some leader somewhere starts to act like Stalin again.
>>535373269>seeThere were no promises broken. That is straight from Gorbachev himself.>Clearly they had a say over negotiationsThey have no say over what former soviet states want, you stupid bugman. Zero.You lost. If you didn't want former soviet states to join a defensive alliance, then your shithole shouldn't have fucking collapsed and required the US to feed you for a time, most of which ended up getting stolen anyways, as subhumans tend to do.
The mere existence of CSTO (anno 1992) is a proof there never was any agreement on NATO non enlargement eastward. I rest my case.
>>535372433You are a Jew. Sayonara
>>535371939Do you have that in writing?
>>535373363>There were no promises broken.See>>535372974You can clearly see the German Foreign minister at the time saying that a promise was made. Nobody cares what a literal traitor to Russia has to say 20 years after the fact. THe people who negotiated it at the time openly admitted they made a promise>They have no say over what former soviet states wantI want many things, so what? NATO can pick and choose who to invite, and NATO made a promise not to invite eastern european countries, and they broke the promise>You lost. If you didn't want former soviet states to join a defensive alliance, then your shithole shouldn't have fucking collapsed and required the US to feed you for a time, most of which ended up getting stolen anyways, as subhumans tend to do.You lost. You could have had Russia as a ally, they could have been your most valuable ally against China. All you had to do was to either disband NATO and create a new alliance that includes Russia and Eastern Europe, or invite Russia and eastern Europe at the same time. If you had Russia on your side you could actually encircle China. But instead you prefered to have the might Latvia and Slovakia and other powerless shitholes lmao. Kikes never had capacity to think in the future.
>>535373588proper White man understand that your word matters. Semites are the ones that play lose with words. You are a kike
>>535373610>>535373652ngl been loving the cope from you. what are you going to do about it?
>>535373711I will just laugh at mutts getting btfo by sandniggers in hormussy
>>535373610>SeeAgain, I am quoting Gorbachev himself. He says there were no promises broken.>You can clearly see the German Foreign minister at the time saying that a promise was made.What promise? "In general"? Are you saying that the German Foreign minister knew that the communist shithole was about to collapse?Where were the promises made about the "east in general" outside of Germany? Maybe he means "in general" in the context of Germany, and you're a retarded subhuman bugman?>NATO can pick and choose who to inviteThat's not how NATO works, you retarded subhuman asiatic. They don't "invite". You sure are a retarded bugman, for sure.>You could have had Russia as a ally,Why would I want subhuman asiatics as an ally?Straight from Gorbachev, no promises broken. Seethe, cope, dilate. You are not a human being.
>>535371939>"We gave categorical assurances to Gorbachov that if a united Germany could remain in NATO, NATO would not be moved eastward"May we see them?
>>535373755thats what I thought
>>535371939Did that include that Russia wouldn't invade their neighbors?
>>535373782>Where were the promises made about the "east in general" outside of Germany?See>>535372974Can you understand english? Your ESL is that bad?
>>535373610> You could have had Russia as an ally, they could have been your most valuable ally against China.Lmao. Considering Russian natural hatred towards Chinese it will be , but n any case, western ally against China, except without any obligation from the Western side, which is kind of pragmatic if you ask me.
>>535371939>categorical assurances>pinky promisesIf nothing was signed then it was all just coffeetable banter
>>535373867Extreme cope, neither will betray each other as long as muttmericans are still kiking around. Once muttmerica is dealt it, they will turn on each other, no doubt
>>535372004kissinger's policy was detente, which is far closer to maga than the neocon kike policy of WWIII at any cost
>>535373360So when NATO kills Zelensky then
>>535372562I think it's pretty obvious what he really meant.
>>535373853>Can you understand english? Your ESL is that bad?Again, I am quoting Gorbachev himself, that says no promises were broken.Can you explain how the German Foreign Minister has any say over former soviet states who inquire about NATO membership?Can you explain how the Two Plus Four Agreement is a promise to not allow former soviet states, which did not exist at the time, to join NATO?You seem to be saying that these subhuman communists knew that their shithole would collapse when they made this agreement, and accepted this "promise" that supposedly happened, knew that all of these future former soviet states would want to join NATO, and yet did nothing?So you're basically saying that Russians are subhuman losers, in that case.
>>535374020You are quoting a literal traitor who took money from USA and CIA and fled to the West. And quoting him 20 years after the fact. I'm quoting the german and american foreign minister speaking at the time. They both publicly claimed that assurances and promises were given that NATO would not expand east. > to not allow former soviet statesNot just former soviet states, the promise was that NATO would not expand eastwards, see>>535372974
>>535373957>Corrupted leader of dirt poor undeveloped country>Is like the dictator of the country that started space travel.You Zelensky fanbois are really out of touch with reality.
>>535371939>We gave categorical assurances to GorbachovAnd then the USSR imploded and became 15 new countries. What's your point, pidor?
>>535372943Mmh, I'd negotiate with you. :3
>>535373932Lol. Knowing Russians I guarantee you they are plotting and betraying Chinese as we speak.
>>535374126State policy is not done on verbal promisesIt's done on treatiesNothing signed, no obligation either.If Russians are that gullible, then it's their problem.They were not in a position to set any conditions anyway. They were just scared their empire was crumbling and were grasping at straws to hang on to their shit influence sphere that everyone hated.Why do you think NOBODY wants to be in Russia's sphere?Even Russians migrate to the West.How many from the West migrate to Russia by comparison? Close to nobody.Only churkas from the poorest shitholes do. And pajeets more recently.There's a reason for all that.
>>535371939Why are russians (ziggers?) against HATO so much? How does it decrease their quality of life? Why do they seethe about it so much? I get why Serbians would, but Russia never got attacked by HATO.
>>535374265lol, retarded rusophobe
>>535373981No, not really. It's my observation that asiatics have trouble with order of events in pretty much every case.They seem to fuck up order of events and not know how the flow of time works.For example, take the 2014 annexation of Crimea. They will claim that Eastern Ukrainians were being shelled, and that's why glowniggers Russian mercenaries, the Russian army, and even Russian surface to air missile platforms needed to invade the east.But this is simply the cope of a subhuman asiatic who doesn't understand the flow of time or order of events. It was the glowniggers and Russian army who invaded the east first and murdered Ukrainian civilians.Then, in response, these Russian forces were shelled.There is also a similar cope where they claim that ethnic Russians were being murdered (the trade union building), when in fact Girkin and the Russian glowniggers invaded before that to Sloviansk and were murdering civilians.Coupled with the fact that these asiatics will never tell you that the people who burned alive were literal ANTIFA leftists who basically self-immolated with molotov cocktails because they do not know how windows work.>>535374126>>You are quoting a literal traitor who took money from USA and CIA and fled to the WestGorbachev fled west? Are you fucking retarded?>NATO would not expand eastwardsNATO doesn't "expand". Countries want to join NATO, ask to be in NATO, and are approved by the membership. There is no promise for former soviet countries, which did not exist at the time, to not be let into NATO.You are a subhuman asiatic. You lost.
>>535374268>State policy is not done on verbal promisesSure it is, it is done all the time. One of the most consequntial decisions for muttmerica in this decade, attacking Iran, was done purely on a verbal level. No treaties were signed, Bibi just went in and convinced Trump. Treaties are merely a tool to formalize verbal agreements between leaders. >Nothing signed, no obligation either.peak jewish
>>535374412>There is no promise for former soviet countries, which did not exist at the time, to not be let into NATO.You are right, no such specific promise was made. The promise was that NATO would not expand east, see>>535372974
>>535374412FunnyI dont remember voting to join NATOFaggot troon shill
>>535371939Oh dear, I guess you'll just have to cry about it.
>>535374503>The promise was that NATO would not expand east,And again, from Gorbachev>"The topic of ‘NATO expansion’ was not discussed at all, and it wasn’t brought up in those years. … Another issue we brought up was discussed: making sure that NATO’s military structures would not advance and that additional armed forces would not be deployed on the territory of the then-GDR after German reunification. Baker’s statement was made in that context… Everything that could have been and needed to be done to solidify that political obligation was done. And fulfilled.”You lost.Now that you've lost, can you explain your retarded comment about Gorbachev "fleeing west", you fucking retard?
Dumbass retard Slavs. Now you have the Aryan race pushing gay sex down your throat and basically were forced into a massive war.This is what you get for betraying the Jews.Jews should have ruled over all the Slavs.
>>535374268>teehee i pilpuled you dont you feel stupid for trusting my word as if i have any honorhow jewish of you mr zygan
This is why I don't truat globo homo and gay sex when it comes to Israel
>>535374615Can you explain how this "pilpul" caused the USSR to collapse like the communist asiatics that they are?What is funny is that /leftypol/ thinks that they don't stick out like a sore thumb on this board.I think turd worlder communists and subhumans should go back to the board that they came from.
The Soviet Union no longer exists. The deals made with them are no longer valid.
>>535374391Sure pal. Can you explain to me what based mean?
>>535374743> Russians are le asiatics> Nips and gooks are le honorary aryan
>>535374447Brownies keep seething coz their precious Russia is in the shitterThere's been growing vatnik posting lately, must have something to do with them panicking that their shit is getting droned much deeper now
>>535374838i accept your gipsy concession
>>535374807Yes, and?
NATO exists to create a world full of debt slaves. Its literrally the reason every invasion. You see when warlords rule an area you can just bribe one person to steal the countries resources.The following regimes NATO desyroyed ALL had free education and healthcare with equal rights for women:>Afganistan>Iraq>Libya>Syria>Iran (not looking good)Am I supposed to believe its a coincidence NATO only invades regimes that spend oil revinues on its population?Just a coincidence women losing all thier rights after NATO regime change just happens organically?
>>535374412>NATO is just a voluntary military alliance. It's totally not a vehicle for US geopolitical strategy or anything of the sort. If a foreign country wants to join NATO there is nothing the US can do about it regardless of whether it helps or hurts US geopolitical strategy. Their hands are tied.Why does this braindead take keep getting trotted out? I don't even care if the US wants to cuck Russia out of their local sphere of influence. Doesn't bother me. But I can't take anyone seriously who just pretends that the US and Western Europe hand out NATO membership just to be nice. That the geopolitical rivalry between Russia and the West is just some kind of Russian hallucination. If you're dumb enough to believe that then anything else you say can be chucked straight into the trash.
>>535371939>WEEEEEH, WHY DON'T YOU JUST LEAVE US POLAND TO INVADE AND LOOT AGAIN. THIS IS SO UNFAAAAAAIRdumb orc niggers.
>>535374957There's some strange cognitive dysfunction among westerners today where they just completely refuse to engage with the idea of acting in their own interests, or even recognising that they have interests. Everything has to be dolled up in some half-baked, unconvincing faux-altruism. Welcome to the real world. The strong do what they will and the weak suffer what they must. The Russians can cope and seethe, sucks to suck.
>>535374807Yes, the nips are honorary. They're not the mutted up result of being a tax collector for mongoloids, wh murder and lie to their "brothers", steal their institutions, etc. They're civilized with a fighting and just spirit. Cry about it.>>535374965>NATO is just a voluntary military alliance. It's totally not a vehicle for US geopolitical strategy or anything of the sort. If a foreign country wants to join NATO there is nothing the US can do about it regardless of whether it helps or hurts US geopolitical strategy. Their hands are tied.>Why does this braindead take keep getting trotted out?Can you point to where in my post I said any of this, you fucking retard?
Someone explain why russia would have anything to fear if they didn't attack their neighbors first.
This is how I envision Jews taking control of the Slavs right now. Putin has a hot daughter who is a bastard (so she's worthless) according to Christianity.She converts to Judaism and marries a Jew - a real Jew of ancient nigger blood, not an armenoid imposter - and then Jews take over Russia and rule with an iron fist. No gay democracy or even the pretense of it. Jews then impose Jewish law on Russia while respecting the church. Ivanka converted to Judaism, so why can't putin's daughter, if the russians are atheist.Mossad should kidnap her.If she doesn't do that, she is going to waste her life as a dj fucking niggers and arabs in Paris
>>535372989Just proves how retarded slav monkeys are. White aryans and Slavs are the niggers of jews
>>535375083So its in my interest to spend 1 trillion dollars in tax money so oil companies can make an extra 100 billion in Iraqi oil contracts?What exactly did Iraq do to me?Al Qaeda destroyed the WTC on 9-11 and we just gave them all the oil in Syria. How exactly does that benifit me?I could go on but its obvious you are a lying kike not really intrested in facts.
>>535375228America should just let China build a "defensive" military base in Mexico, what does America have to fear if it didn't want to invade Mexico?
>>535375244>so she's worthless according to Christianity.That's not how Christianity works.
>>535375362It's in America's national interest and in the interest of America's ruling class, nobody gives a fuck about you and they never will.
The plan to destroy every nation in N Africa and the Middle East that might possibly be a threat to Israel one day started 25 years ago. Its cheaper to negotiate with muslim warlords to dont share oil revinues with thier populations.>https://genius.com/General-wesley-clark-seven-countries-in-five-years-annotated>. I said, “We’re going to war with Iraq? Why?” He said, “I don’t know.” He said, “I guess they don’t know what else to do.” So I said, “Well, did they find some information connecting Saddam to al-Qaeda?” He said, “No, no.” He says, “There’s nothing new that way. They just made the decision to go to war with Iraq.” He said, “I guess it’s like we don’t know what to do about terrorists, but we’ve got a good military and we can take down governments.” And he said, “I guess if the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem has to look like a nail.”>So I came back to see him a few weeks later, and by that time we were bombing in Afghanistan. I said, “Are we still going to war with Iraq?” And he said, “Oh, it’s worse than that.” He reached over on his desk. He picked up a piece of paper. And he said, “I just got this down from upstairs” -- meaning the Secretary of Defense’s office -- “today.” And he said, “This is a memo that describes how we’re going to take out seven countries in five years, starting with Iraq, and then Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and, finishing off, Iran.” I said, “Is it classified?” He said, “Yes, sir.” I said, “Well, don’t show it to me.” And I saw him a year or so ago, and I said, “You remember that?” He said, “Sir, I didn’t show you that memo! I didn’t show it to you!”
>>535371939Yeah that gave verbal promise to Gorbachev and USSR but since both no longer exists they don't need to respect it like Ruskies did with Budapest Memorandum
>>535375377We have nothing to fear about that, it'd just be a political game if someone actually cared, their air defense is dogshit and we let chang buy plots of land right outside of our classified airframe test facilities and all it's gotten them is dogshit knock offs, no further on the ability to build jet engines.>>535375572>Yeah that gave verbal promise to Gorbachev Gorbachev himself says no, didn't happen>"The topic of “NATO expansion” was not discussed at all, and it wasn’t brought up in those years. I say this with full responsibility. Not a singe Eastern European country raised the issue, not even after the Warsaw Pact ceased to exist in 1991. Western leaders didn’t bring it up, either."
>>535371939As if Gorbachud had a say in the matter.
>>535375572Faggot logic
>>535376071Correct. The only applicable logic is that NATO is going to keep expanding eastward because what the fuck are the Russians going to do about it lmao, there's no need to make excuses for winning. Vae victis.
> vae victiscui bono?
>>535371939Ivan, you'll be safe when you are part of the chinese empire.learn chinese instead of shilling in here.
>>535371939>Making deals with a democracyThats just dumb, within an election cycle they could have a completely different ideology and goals.
>>535376554>Vae victis.I notice you nafo troons have been told to use that word latelyAm sure it will help in your support of your jewish master Zelensky>What Russia gonna doWell they got NATO kicked out of 7 nations in Africa and took over a few 100 million dollar brand new NATO military bases without firing a shot
>>535376966>uhh, we worship niggers in Africa with the newly rebranded Africa Corps (formerly Wagner). Take that, HATO!lmao
>>535377131>we didnt need that urainium, gold, and rare earths anyway!Typical nafo faggot cope
>>535376746>Cui bonoWestern Empire, of course. Every dead Russian is a step in the right direction.>>535376966I don't give a fuck about Zelenskiy. The entire point of this is to kill Russians, and it's been extremely successful and very cost-effective in that respect. If all you have to brag about is squabbling with the French in West Africa, brag away lol.
>>535372004Ur mentally ill. Also... U lost tranny
>>535377328You dont even know the most basic info about Africa. You are just a pathetic faggot shill will talking points.The USA was kicked out of Niger, retard. And they gave Russia the two brand new 100 million dollar drone bases they built to Russia. They even had Russian troops there as americans were leaving waving goodbye for the lulz.
>>535377605Oh no! Anyway.
>>535377287We don'tSo for what reason is Russia worshipping niggers in Africa anyways, even rebranding Wagner to "Africa Corps"Which is hilarious when you know the origin of the Wagner name
The main argument I hear is that because there wasn’t a formal written agreement that means no promise was made, and that Russia was in no position to fight back in the 90s. Essentially, duplicity is okay so long as you do it legally. That’s been the modus operandi of the west for decades now, lie as much as possible, make empty promises and fuck over everyone stupid enough to sign paperwork with you. The entire argument of nafo being a defensive alliance falls apart when you remember how nato democratically and defensively bombed Serbia despite having no declaration of war or any sign of hostility from Serbia, purely so they could partition Serbias territory. Or when the U.S. democratically and defensively invaded Iraq, a country that literally did nothing and had no part in 9/11 whatsoever, same with Afghanistan. That didn’t stop the U.S. from enacting article 5 on countries that hadn’t done a thing to them, hell, the taliban actually sent their condolences to the U.S. and said they would help, they just said they didn’t think osama was responsible for the attack and assured the U.S. he wasn’t in Afghanistan. But remember, none of those things are bad, it’s only bad when Russia does something because Russia is the evil country.
>>535377731Hey but NATO got Sweden to join! All 500 of thier bicycle mounted infantry men!
>>535372943I are the hungry now. Women smell like flowers and poopy
>>535377906One point two million casualties in four years, and no end to the war in sight. We'll have a whole generation of young men wiped out by 2030. It'll be magnificent.
>>535377886Welcome to reality. Next you're going to tell me that chad gets to slay a lot of pussy.
>>535374292Russians and Serbs seethe for the exact same reason as it's normal for losers to seethe, though we got struck and they didn't because they have nukes.It's not unique to us, every non-neutered country with ambitions seethes (though it's bad that Serbia had any ambitions because we are too small to matter), for example German seethe is why Hitler got elected and why they sided with him in everything.
>>535372269Maybe you should learn how to deal with migrants first before you take on China.
>>535377886>But remember, none of those things are bad, it’s only bad when Russia does something because Russia is the evil country.And in our circles we dodge the moments where we did stupid (or evil) shit, or reinterpret it into our way, sadly usually into muh victim angle, so you cannot even feel prideful in your nationalism with it's victim-infested dogshit rhetoric.I really don't care to even talk about who is the bigger evil, I just want my country to make good moves, and people to behave culturally, but this is not possible so as a high IQ individual I am not gonna get heated about some Balkan forest and rocks everyone cries about.It's up to you to judge your country and to keep the evil in check but if you think your way of life and direction of the country is good, then you should just shrug your shoulders and accept you do some evil. I think US was decent in the cold war. I would accept bombing some shitholes if I was American at that time.
>>535373189And? Looks like Ukraine is beating russias ass using NATO weapons.
>>535378115You are just a sick faggot into gore.Typical nafo sodomite serving thier jewish master Zelensky.Funny how Russia suppoters just want peace.
>>535371939Imagine thinking you can trust the word of the criminals who run the judeozionist empire. These faggots have broken every treaty and agreement they've ever been involved in. Can't trust evil.
>>535371939>We gave categorical assurancesCan we see them, please?
>>535377886>there wasn’t a formal written agreement that means no promise was made,Or, since Gorbachev says that the matter of "NATO expansion" wasn't even discussed, and that Baker's comment was made in the context of military bases in the GDR, and had nothing to do with "NATO expansion eastward", because the USSR had not yet collapsed, that in reality you're a retarded nigger?Such a "promise" would necessitate knowing that the USSR would soon collapse. Except, it didn't happen like that. Retarded niggers like you don't seem to understand that you have the benefit of hindsight, or you fundamentally fail to grasp dates and times of the events that are being discussed.
>>535372269People who are pro-NATO ruined Europe and the US, put Yeltsin in charge of Russia, who designed Putin as his successor, and made modern China the industrial juggernaut that it is.As expected of a bunch of neocon/neoliberal kikes whose only ideology is fuck whitey and fuck christians
>>535380439Doesn't matter what they want, the war will continue and the bodies will be piled ever higher.
>>535380439>Funny how Russia suppoters just want peace.Kek. Have you been to /chug/?
Nothing ever happens.Nukes are fake.
>>535372562The problem kike-kun, is that international law is not US common law.It's an agreement between countries; you break it, and no matter how much you want to recontextualize it, the other country will react as it sees fit.So this lawyer jewjitsu bs doesn't work
>>535371939>Attack 3 neutral neighbors since 2000's.>Daily airspace violations and threats to the rest of your neighbours.>Act surprised when they willingly join a coalition against you.Why are russians such niggers?
What is funny is ziggers claim the Budapest Memorandum is illegitimate because it wasn't ratified, so this pinky promise not to expand "eastward", you got it in writing and got it ratified right ? .....right ?
>nooo a defensive pact against my aggression is coming closer to me, I'm the victim here! I will invade Ukraine to show them how peaceful I am!
>>535371939It was a non binding agreement with the soviet union.The soviet union is no more.Countries can join NATO freely and don’t have to ask russia for permission. In fact, we should have let Ukraine join NATO long time ago and russia could not have attacked it.
>>535382195>Countries can join NATO freelyWhy didn't they let Russia join NATO?
>>535371939Test
>>535382333Needs uninanimous approval from all the other NATO countries first. If Russia wanted to join NATO so bad, perhaps it shouldn't have attacked its neighbours.
>>535382333Because Russia never went through the process of even attempting to do so, and they wouldn't want to seriously spend all of that money replacing their stocks and overhauling their military in the first place.They're still churning out individually crated grad rockets for their MLRS to this day, that they have to load one-by-one.Even when they use forklifts, chances are that the state didn't pay for them, instead they have donation drives (I am not making this shit up) to buy military supplies organized by the families to make their lives easier, even before the war.
>>535371939Why is russia afraid of small defenseless countries on its border joining a purely defensive alliance?
>>535382333Because Nato was literally created as a counterweight to the U.S.S.R./Russian threat. NATO officials consistently warned that Russia would need to meet the alliance's democratic, civilian-control, and rule-of-law standards first—standards Moscow wasn't prepared to adopt at that time. i.e. Russia is a shithole.
>>535382094Yeah its called geopolitics conflict. When 2 entity are that close to each other they tend to do that. Whether its as small as atom or as big as nation. That is just how it is.
>>535382770>meet alliance's democratic, civilian-control, and rule-of-law standards first—standards Moscow wasn't prepared to adopt at that time. i.e. Russia is a shithole.Just like Turkey and a literal dictatorship, Portugal did?
>>535381296Baker is literally on video saying exactly what his comment on nato expansion was. It was posted in this thread, I don’t know why you’re trying lie but it looks ridiculous. Even if we assume they only meant GDR, that makes absolutely zero sense because they built military bases in Poland which is significantly more eastward than GDR which makes the vow to not expand “one inch eastward” sound absurd. >but the ussr hadn’t collapsed yet!And you’re calling me a retarded nigger? The USSR here is irrelevant, the big issue was the dissolution of the Warsaw pact, which by 1989 was all but assured. Poland had already gotten rid of the communists by this point and the pan European picnic had already happened. Why do you think they were even discussing nato expansion in the first place?
>>535382770>Russia would need to meet the alliance's democratic, civilian-control, and rule-of-law standards first..have you ever read the list of countries in NATO anon?
This is essentially the cuban missile crisis in reverse, just leave Putin be.
>>535382934The weak should fear the strong.
>>535382607Russia has every right to protect herself from NATO aggression.
>>535382620>donation drivesI think all so-called "governments" should be funded with donations. Statism is evil.
>>535382770lol... You have to go back.
>>535382982The strong should take care of the weak. Or, at the very least, not harm them.
>>535371939Too bad Ivan, you were weak so you got bullied by the Americans. Better luck next time (after the dissolution of Russia).
>>535382906>>Baker is literally on video saying exactly what his comment on nato expansion wasAgain, you are looking upon this comment in hindsight. The comment can't have been made in the context of the former USSR, or countries in the USSR, because the USSR had not yet collapsed, you fucking retarded subhuman.>The USSR here is irrelevantThe countries bordering Russia that subhumans like you complain about being "NATO expansion" did not exist in the context of the warsaw pact, you fucking retarded subhuman. Yes, you are a retarded nigger. I can guarantee your eyes are darker than nigger shit for saying such a stupid thing.The USSR would not be irrelevant in this context, you fucking retard, because all of the NATO countries that subhumans bitch and moan about, a minimum of 17 years after their ascension that would even remotely justify the Ukraine war, had nothing to do with the Warsaw pact.
>>535372249If the Russians are weak why weren't Western nations able to defeat Russia in Ukraine and push them out of the country?
>>535382607These people are allowed to vote, Jesus Christ. What “neighbors” did Russia attack in the 90s? Chechnya? You mean the breakaway state that engaged in open terorrism and advocated for jihad? So even if we assume this is a case of “invading neighbors” and not a civil war scenario, Russia ended hostilities with Chechnya in 96, the chechens invaded Dagestan in 1999 which prompted the second war. Oh wait you must mean Georgia, ie the country that started the war in 2008 by attacking Russian troops stationed in South Ossetia. Even the EU agreed Georgia started it, they just felt Russia was too mean ;-;. By 2008 any talks about joining nato were abandoned, the final straw was the United States sanctioning Belarus.
>>535371939Nobody cares. Fuck Russia. What are they going to do? They couldn't even make it 100 miles into Ukraine. They are done for a century.
>>535372909Your assumption seems to be politicians always lie and are never held accountable. It seems like Putin's invasion of Ukraine after Kamala Harris was pushing for them to join NATO was a natural consequence
>>535383215You need to slow down and think instead of seething incoherently. I don’t even know what you’re trying to say, you’re so angry you can’t even form a complete sentence.
>>535373787He's the US ambassador to the Soviet Union. If anyone would know it would be him
>>535371939the same assurances we gave ukraine that if they give up their nukes russia will be cool with them lol
>>535382770Look up when NATO was created and look up when the Warsaw Pact was created you might need to recalibrate your timeline
>>535382864Agreed turkey was very questionable>>535382923It's their words not mine...but I agree we are only a slippery slope to hell.>>535383152I'm not going anywhere shit stain.
>>535383538NATO created 1949, Warsaw pact 1955, so what's your point ?
>>535383538That is a funny point, when nato was established Stalin sent a message asking if the Soviets could join and was basically told no with a reason given.
>>535383313>What country Russia attacked? You mean the tiny nation with no real army that attacked innocent giant with nukes?Oh its the good old WW2 Stalin reasoning again. "My tiny neighbour attacked us we have the right to crush them now." Standard russian nigger excuse.>Even the EU agreed Georgia started it,>"The EU condemns the Russian Federation’s illegal military presence in the Georgian regions, recognition of these regions as independent “states”, military exercises, and the ongoing process of “borderisation”."https://www.eeas.europa.eu/delegations/council-europe/eu-statement-secretary-general%E2%80%99s-thirty-third-consolidated-report-conflict-georgia_enWhy do you niggers always lie?
>>535383404I'm perectly coherent.1) Your eyes are darker than nigger shit2) Such a "promise" to not "expand NATO" to countries bordering Russia would necessitate knowing that the USSR would soon collapse3) Except for Bulgaria (who gives a shit) all of those countries that are framed as "NATO expansion", in the context of on the border of Russia, are basically irrelevant in the context of the Warsaw pact.4) "NATO expansion" is basically irrelevant in an offensive context in the case of Ukraine. You'd be stuck in the steppe, if you can even with 100% certainty say you're not going to be stuck in the mud due to the mud season, for months. Even longer, as you can see in the case of Russia, thanks to the new military reality of massing FPV drones.All of those other countries are basically irrelevant in an offensive context, too, with the only thing they really have there are THAAD batteries, which can't be used in an offensive context.5) Your eyes are darker than nigger shit.Now seethe for me, you fucking retarded darkie.
Don't care about non-humans complaining.Will never care about Slav Wars #432432.The only good Slav is a dead Slav.
>>535383503Its like you faggots are broken1. We never promised military support(its retarded to think anyone would start WW3 over a shithole like ukraine).2. Ukraine SOLD thier nukes for 2.5 billion dollars and were GLAD to take the money
>>535383783This statement is from April 2026 you mongoloid. I’m talking about the investigation held in 2008, here’s an article with a PDF of the report. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8281990.stm
>>535383731The Warsaw Pact was made as a counterweight to NATO, not the other way around. That was my point
>>535384170According to that brilliant mind, you should never retaliate if a smaller state attacks your troops because that's literally Stalin o algo
>>535382770>the alliance's democratic, civilian-control, and rule-of-law standards firstTurkey, Greece, Portugal joined when they were dictatorships
>>535384170Your link itself brings up the Russian forces in South Ossetia and the "provocations", i.e. the Russian shelling of Georgian villages. All the report says is that both sides "violated international law", but it is of course Russia instigating and baiting.Much like Ukraine, here's Dugin and a bunch of Neo-Eurasian niggers in the context of that war. You'll note that these same niggers were the ones funding the failed separatist referendums in Ukraine.So, you fundamentally cannot cope that this isn't Russia's modus operandi.
>>535371939Gorbachev is irrelevant and so are any promises made to him.
>>535383822>Such a "promise" to not "expand NATO" to countries bordering Russia would necessitate knowing that the USSR would soon collapseNo? Again, by 1989 it was clear the warsaw pact was done, the USSR was not the sole member. Besides acting like there was no evidence the USSR was on its last legs is retarded, Yeltsin was already president of the RSFSR by 1990, anyone could see the entire system was falling apart. >"NATO expansion" is basically irrelevant in an offensive context in the case of Ukraine. You'd be stuck in the steppe, if you can even with 100% certainty say you're not going to be stuck in the mud due to the mud season, for months.So this tells me two things, one you don’t actually know where Moscow is located and two you don’t actually know the history of Russian-NATO relations. Ukraine talking about joining NATO wasn’t the cause of the 2022 war, it’s just one of a number of issues going on. From a strategic standpoint having a country with a clear shot to your capital in the “we hecking hate Russia” fan club is a huge issue. The only reason Ukraine isn’t a serious threat right now is because the place is basically a mafia state run by retards. The only reason that crackden hasn’t totally fallen apart is because the entire world is invested in keeping them afloat and even then they’re basically just delaying the inevitable.
>>535384551>the failed separatist referendums in Ukraine.I don't know about Luhansk and Donbass, but the Crimean referendum was legit, most Crimeans definitely wanted to join Russia, but the West didn't accept their self determination and insisted that Crimea belongs to Ukraine.
>>535384170You dumb fucking nigger fuck. Georgia had a conflict with South Ossetia, they did not attack Russia. Russia invaded using South Ossetian russians as an excuse.https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/TA-6-2008-0396_EN.html
>>535371939Funny how that doesn't appear in any treaties or signed documents. It's always just "trust me bro!"
>>535384692>most Crimeans definitely wanted to join RussiaThats not up to them. If a bunch of alaskans want to join Russia, does Russia now have the right to claim Alaska for itself? Thats not how that shit works. Random separatists are not the majority.
>>535384592>Promises made,>promises broken.Statism really is a mental illness.
>>535384551I don’t care about the BBCs editorializing of the report, I only care about the report itself. There was nothing illegal about Russian troops being in South Ossetia, Georgia said the ceasefire was null but they don’t have unilateral authority to end an agreement like that. People say Russia continuing to occupy the territories is illegal now but that wasn’t the case back then, Russias opinion on the matter is the breakaway states have independence and Russia respects that. >>535384765Did I say they attacked Russia? No, I said they attacked Russian troops stationed in ossetia, which was absolutely legal and in accordance with the 1994 ceasefire.
>>535384836So you agree Kosovo didn’t have the right to secede from Serbia?
>>535384836Alaska was originally Russian. There could be a way for Alaskans to vote to join Russia, or even Canada. They would just need to dot the Is and cross the Ts
>>535384692>I don't know about Luhansk and DonbassThey tried multiple failed referendums before 2014, after the second time the government told them to fuck off.Pictured is the first attempt at the referendum. Note the flag and their jewish phenotypes.There were referendums after Russia invaded, of course, going door to door.>but the Crimean referendum was legit,That wasn't legitimate either. You'll note that Russia occupied and shut down the parliament illegally before any referendum happened. All of the "international observers" later revealed to be quite literally on the Russian payroll or emailing mail.ru addresses at how best to be a Russian cocksleeve as a EU representative.
>>535384953>Alaska was originally Russian.So you do think Alaska belongs to Russia, like a good little VPNigger.
cry harder lol
>>535384965Yeah, tell them referendums are only legitimate when they create a muslim state that's a crime hub in the middle of Europe, so they can send their goons and torture old people in the middle of rural Spain to rob them, right?
>>535384836What if 51% of all the Alaskans voat to join Russia? What if 60%? What if 87%? 100%?Why not?
>>535384919Either they secede or we drive them all out because this country is bad already, it would be even worse if those apes (and they're apes to other Balkanites, universally agreed on) were forced to be inside our borders. Anyways Kosovo is only tangentially important to us in my view. We should worry about things we can control, and we are failing at that, badly.
>>535384878>No, I said they attacked Russian troops stationed in ossetia, which was absolutely legal and in accordance with the 1994 ceasefire.The ceasefire brought by russian invasion. Its like saying you're the aggressor when you're trying to kick out a nigger burglar from your house who occupies your kitchen.
>>535371939Gorbatschow was an idiot if he really trusted the word of anglo-jews lmao
>>535384965Multiple surveys were held in Crimea following the referendum and the results more or less match the results of the referendum. 89% voted to join Russia and 89% of respondents said the referendum was fair and accurate. There’s also no evidence Russia forced people to vote at gunpoint or whatever ridiculous crap, Russia even invited international observers to watch the polls but they refused. This means either the referendum was legitimate and the peninsula, which is overwhelmingly Russian speaking and voted for yanukovych voted to leave after the maidan, or uh…Gallup poll and pew research are agents of the Russian state I guess. All discussions on Crimea seem to ignore the actual history of the region and the litany of transgressions committed by Ukraine against them from the dissolving of their constitution in 1995 to the 2005 election fraud cause and of course the 2014 coup. Acting like the Crimeans had no justification for disliking Ukraine and poroshenko specifically is simply absurd, actual propaganda.
>>535384836That's exactly how it works but according to the Ukrainian constitution all of Ukrainian territories have to agree on secession, but separatists don't give a fuck if things get bad enough.According to the Yugoslav constitution it was also illegal for other states to secede, yet it was madness to stop them.
>>535384675>Again, by 1989 it was clear the warsaw pact was done, the USSR was not the sole member.None of the countries brought up in the context of "muh NATO expansion" are separate from the USSR in the context of those dates or the warsaw pact, you fucking retard.>Besides acting like there was no evidence the USSR was on its last legs is retardedThere was no point in even bothering with the GDR treaty then, you fucking retard. Because the USSR would be completely gone within a year and a half.>So this tells me two things, one you don’t actually know where Moscow is locatedI know exactly where Moscow is located, you retarded nigger. Are you suggesting that the MIGHTY NATO would just steamroll to Moscow through Ukraine? WIth what buildup? What offensive capabilities?>Ukraine talking about joining NATO wasn’t the cause of the 2022 war, it’s just one of a number of issues going on.It is the #1 justification for the war in the context of the discussion we're having. Literal marxists can't shut the fuck up about it.
>>535385313>Multiple surveys were held in CrimeaBy russian sympathizers, not ukrainian government. Multiple surveys were held in US that US as a whole should belong to Finland. Now hand yourselves over.
there is no NATO in east Germany
>>535385219Did Georgia sign the fucking ceasefire? Yes. Did Georgia violate the ceasefire in 2008? Yes. Did Russia act in accordance with the ceasefire? Yes. Crying about it doesn’t change the fact Georgia caused the war by trying to circumvent the rules. It’s very telling that shakashvili and the people who pushed for war have largely been removed from office and the party that wants to peacefully reintegrate is far more popular.
>>535384965Wrong. The west has tried to destroy Russia for 600 years. The west wants all of Russia's resources and have tried to Balkanize the country 6 times in those 600 years, especially the butthurt British, who even after the Crimean war still couldn't do it fully. The Brits have had a Hardin to destroy Russia ever since. This is an existential crisis for the Russians and they will NUKE the west before surrendering to them. Europe is suicidal.
>>535371939So should i pity the russia because America lied or laugh because they fell for it?
>>535385404>by Russian sympathizers So you think Gallup poll and pew research are Russian agents? Do you understand how ridiculous this sounds?
>>535371939>NATO promises stuff to SU (Gorbachev)>Russia willingly leaves SU (Whitout Gorbachev's consent or asking to the people)>SU dissolves>NATO should uphold promises made to the now dead SU because Russia (who left and killed SU) says so>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belovezha_Accords
>>535385313>All discussions on Crimea seem to ignore the actual history of the region and the litany of transgressions committed by Ukraine against them from the dissolving of their constitution in 1995 to the 2005 election fraud cause and of course the 2014 coup. Acting like the Crimeans had no justification for disliking Ukraine and poroshenko specifically is simply absurd, actual propaganda.You can have your bank accounts frozen in the EU if you say that, look up Jack Baud.
>>535385414>So what if I invaded you, now stop crying about it!And there it is. Thanks for clarifying that Russia attacked first and thats why Russia's neighbours join NATO.
is the mean HATO biomass-soldier trannys bullying you again ivan?better make a zillion threads whining about itthatll show em
>>535372791>>535372943based BrotzeitposterSlavs can appreciate this common ground, while the anglomutt golem seethes in confusion
>>535385414russoids invaded. russoids were moving barbed wire every night literally moving the goalpost.
>>535373238Anon you're the biggest losers of Europe who made the soviet communist spread across Europe possible
>>535385489So Georgia can just ignore a ceasefire agreement and kill Russian citizens because they didn’t like the treaty they themselves signed? You’re essentially saying Georgia started the 2008 war but it’s okay because Russia is hecking evil. It’s retarded.
>>535385313>muh russian surveys!That's great, retard with shit for eyes who doesn't understand the benefit of hindsight in the context of this supposed "promise", but it doesn't change the fact that Russia invaded illegally, shut down the parliament illegally, and carried out an illegal referendum with Russian military waving their guns around.Even Girkin admitted that much years before the second invasion of Ukraine. Of course, he was off to do more illegal shit shortly after that, killing civilians in Eastern Ukraine and shooting down a civilian airliner full of Western Europeans with Russian military equipment that higher ups in the Russian army let his glownigger invasion force borrow.
>>535371939The primary cause of NATO gaining new members in the East is Russia being unable to not act like rabid niggers for more than two consecutive years
>>535385558Again, for the 5th time now. Georgia signed the ceasefire agreement and then violated it, that is why Russia responded the way they did.
>>535385422Good point.600 years ago Russia refused to let jews sell thier slaves in Russia.It put a monkey wrench in thier long term plans to destabalize civilization
>>535385603>and kill Russian citizensWhat are they doing there in the first place? Its not their country. And now you say civilians when you previously claimed Georgia attacked russian military. Which way is it nigger?
>>535385607>gallup poll and pew research are RussianYou have to be one of the dumbest people on this board, what an accomplishment. >girikin Is an unreliable narrator. He made many claims that have little to no veracity, he also claimed to be in Donetsk at the same time the Crimean referendum was being held.
>>535385718>what are they doing there in the first place Okay am I arguing with a fucking chatbot? How many times do I need to say ceasefire agreement before you understand what that means? They were there acting as peacekeepers, this was outlined in the 1994 agreement that Georgia signed.
>>535385791>How many times do I need to say ceasefire agreementAnd why was the ceasefire agreement made? Why were russian troops stationed in South Ossetia to begin with when it doesn't belong to Russia? Almost like russians invaded its neighbour or something.
Sigh.
>>535385883>why was the ceasefire agreement made Because there was a civil war in Georgia due to two regions attempting to break away. >why were Russian troops stationed in South Ossetia Because they were acting as peacekeepers in accordance with the 1994 ceasefire agreementDo you just have zero idea why the 2008 war happened? Why are you arguing with me about something you clearly know nothing about?
>>535385737Surveys of Russians. You know, being that the majority of the population is Russian military, considering it was leased out to Russia?Do you know how any of this works?>unreliable narratorIt doesn't change the fact that they illegally invaded, illegally shut down the parliament, and held an illegal referendum with the military about, with the only international observers being leftist faggot EU representatives that were found to be paid by Russia or in contact with Russian assets.>>535385737>he also claimed to be in Donetsk at the same time the Crimean referendum was being held.No, he didn't. Link to the claim. You're just so fucking stupid that you can't differentiate mid to late Spring 2014 from February 2014. You're one of those retarded niggers that aren't so good with dates that I talked about earlier in the thread. >>535374412
>>535386003He doesn't understand that Georgia went to war with those two regions out of ethnical troubles. Now Russia uses those regions as bargaining chips of course, but the spark for war in 90s was not caused by them as far as I know. If you ask me what's good for Georgia and those regions, idk, nobody can tell you, humans are retarded, to the victors go the spoils.
>>535386059>surveys of Russians Yes retard, Crimea is 95% ethnic Russian. Who did you think they were going to survey? Of all the hills to die on why are you picking this one?
>>535386003>Because there was a civil war in Georgia due to two regions attempting to break away.And how did that give Russia the right to invade? By EUs definition their troops are there illegally.>Because they were acting as peacekeepersMost nations have peacekeepers in middle-east that get attacked all the time, yet you don't see them invading those countries.
>>535386126The best thing for Georgia right now is to keep working on mutual cooperation with the breakaway regions, the framework is already in place for reintegration, they just need to reach the point where they can come to the table. The current party in charge of Georgia is a good starting point.
>>535386132>Crimea is 95% ethnic Russian.And theres the age old russian excuse to attack its neighbours.>"ethnic russians within your borders want you to join Russia, so surrender now."Definitely 100% a brown VPNigger. Repeating all the same tired excuses for why Russia attacks its neighbours. And thats why everyone joins NATO, because Russia is full of lying aggressive niggers like you.
>>535386140The EU decided after 2008 Russia was illegally occupying the territories, this was not the case prior to the war and this doesn’t retroactively nullify the ceasefire and change the blame to Russia. >most nations have peace-keepers in the Middle East that get attacked all the time And that’s okay to you? What kind of insane fucking moon logic is that. The whole point of a peacekeeper is to keep the peace, Georgia disturbed the peace and received the expected response.
>>535386132Hopefully not Russian military?Speaking of a "broken promise", Russia had agreed with Ukraine on the borders not even a decade before the annexation. They constantly agreed to lease.If anything, that's one promise broken in writing that shit-for-eyes like you never want to bring up.Now, justify your claim about Girkin being an "unreliable narrator" in this context. You cannot, because you are a retarded nigger. Not that it matters, you agree that it was all illegal, but somehow the words actually being on paper and agreed to don't matter in this context, but words dreamt up by retarded shit-for-eyes like you about "military expansion eastward" into countries that didn't even exist at the time is a broken promise, LMAO.
>>535386341>EU agreed Georgia was the mean baddie.>Also EU statements don't actually matter.>And that’s okay to you?Russian funded separatists have attacked NATO member peacekeepers. According to your logic NATO should therefore aggressively expand and invade Russia.
>>535386221Why are there 95% Russian regions in those countries? Either culturally assimilate those Russians or let them break away.
>>535385643russoids violated the agreement when they moved the barbed wire
>>535386221No, the reason Crimea seceded was because the president they overwhelmingly voted for was illegally removed by a coup. The peninsula was already on bad terms with the Ukrainian government, 2013 was the last straw. The fact they are Russian is irrelevant here, they had plenty of reason to dislike the Ukrainian government besides the ethnic issue.
>>535372717Fuck off kike
>>535377530>le owning teh libsSo epic maga woo>this message was sent from my phone while I pump my $5/gallon gas>edit: thanks for the gold kind stranger>edit 2: those who bless israel will be blessed. so epic winning!!!
>>535386221So is the survey correct or not? If the survey is correct, why argue about its reliability? Why not accept the initial premise and go straight to contesting whether their opinions actually matter? I am seeing contradictions in the style of llms
>>535386543And that still doesn't give Russia the right to invade. Russia is still the aggressor. You are essentially arguing that Alaska belongs to Russia because some alaskans don't like the US. Thats not how border policies work.
>>535386427Yes, EU statements made over a decade after the fact are irrelevant because politics have shifted towards Russia is the evilest nation ever and everything they do is le bad. The 2008 investigation IS relevant because it was contemporary and accurately reflects what was going on at the time.
>>535386428Unironically, propaganda."Ethnically Russian" is a meaningless phrase, anyways. Even niggers can be Russian.But seriously, you see this in Eastern Ukraine. They were pumped with so much bullshit that many stayed and could not believe that Russia was bombing them, that it was a trick and somehow Ukraine was bombing them from fighter jets. Very sad.
>>535385503Anglos only eat baked beans on toast. They are vile jewish lapdogs.
>>535372717they had plenty to do with Iranfurthermore it's US taxdollars at work in Palestine and Lebanon and wherever the kikes are
>>535386667Russia didn’t invade, Crimea seceded. If you want to argue unilateral secession isn’t valid then you also have to agree the 1999 bombing of Serbia and the recognition of Kosovo was illegitimate.
>>535386672>EU policies only matter when they're friendly to Russia.
>>535371939GORBACHEV WOULD CALL YOU GUYS LOSERS LOLCANT EVEN FINISH YOUR GREAT WORK BAKA
>>535386674>Unironically, propaganda.>"Ethnically Russian" is a meaningless phrase, anyways. Even niggers can be Russian.Can you not be the platonic ideal of projection for just one moment?
>>535386783Reading comprehension isn’t your strong suit I take it.
>>535386768>Russia didn’t invade, Crimea seceded.And theres the age-old WW2 Stalin excuse again."Soviet Union didn't invade, Estonia wanted to join us after we forced them to give over some territories and we installed our own estonian puppet government.Straight out of the vatnigger playbook.
>>535372974He is in no position to declare such a thing lol.Anyway the deal was with the soviet union and not Russia.
>>535386836He argues in the same post that Russians were the ones bombing Donetsk, he’s on an entirely different level of schizo politics from the rest of us.
>>535386841Thats exactly what you said. EU policies only matter to you when they agree with Russia but now that they are against Russia they suddenly lose all legitimacy.
>>535386876Do you think Kosovo seceding was legitimate?
>>535386950>whataboutAnd here come the VPN whataboutisms. Are you going to talk about US invading Iran next?
>>535386924No, I said a retroactive policy change made over a decade after the fact is irrelevant. The EU deciding afterwards that Russia is le bad doesn’t change the circumstances of the ceasefire Georgia broke and it doesn’t allow them to assign retroactive guilt on Russia.
>>535387007Nigger I am asking you if you think unilateral secession is valid. Do you think Kosovo seceding was legitimate, yes or no question.
>>535386836Are you arguing that shitskinned browns from cental asia after moving to Russia proper don't identify as "ethnically Russian" in the census after a single generation?Meaningless.>>535386914I didn't say anything about Donetsk specifically, but yes, they were in fact bombing Mariupol, in that oblast, and those "ethnic Russians" stayed, and were murdered.Yet another example of shit-for-eyes subhumans like you not understanding that all of these events happen at different times and different dates and different contexts.But, for that matter, yes. Wagner, Russian military "on vacation", and forces led by Girkin along with other glowniggers were shelling from Donetsk (the city) in 2014, now that you bring it up.
>NO YOU CAN'T JOIN A MILITARY ALLIENACE BECAUSE BECAUSE THAT WAY WE WILL NOT BE ABLE TO INVADE YOU
>>535371939A westerner's word is as good as shit. Valuable lesson to learn.
>>535386674Eastern and southern Ukraine were Turkic territories until Russian empire thwarted them under Catherine the Great and then settled them with Russians (or would-be Ukrainians, she allowed "malorussians" only to settle).It has nothing to do with some propaganda, at least not wholly.
>>535387007>You must selectively be scandalized about what the enemies of the US do, only themNo, as I've stated before, Albanians are criminal trash who dedicated themselves to torturing grandpas in rural Spain for years
>>535387038>The EU deciding afterwards that Russia is le badNope, they condemned russian actions in the 2008 report as well, see: https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/TA-6-2008-0396_EN.html>>535387072Again its irrelevant, because we're asking whether civil wars are legitimate reason for Russia to invade foreign nations. The answer is no. If Russia does that they are instantly the aggressor no matter how many ethnic russians the separate nation has. Your whataboutism isn't going to work because its talking past the initial subject matter.1) Russia's neighbours join NATO because Russia attacks its neutral neighbours and so far has attacked 0 NATO neighbours.2) Russia without a hint of irony claims all those 3 attacks since 2000 were "self-defence" when their own troops are in countries they don't belong in.3) Your brown hands keep making the same old VPNigger excuses that Russia really is a perfect innocent angel just trying to be a peacekeeper in nations that don't belong to it.
>>535371939Ok. But those assurances of not moving eastward applied only to the Soviet Union and they dissolved in 1991. The agreement to not expand NATO eastward did not apply to the new Russian Federation government. That agreement only applied to the Soviet Union and when they were gone the agreement evaporated and the new Russian government was not grandfathered in to Russia that agreement the US made with the Soviets. Governments matter folks and agreements under one government may or may not transfer over to the new government.
>>535387335No, it is absolutely relevant because if Kosovo is allowed to secede then Crimea is allowed to secede. The fact you’re trying to dodge the question tells me you’re aware of this and you desperately want to change the subject.
>>535387253Not really. the steppe above Crimea was contested. It was not a turkish state.Also, Catherine the Horse Fucker's settlement plan was definitely multi-ethnic: for example, the Balkans and Germany. And Ukrainians dominated the inflow despite that open invitation to many European groups.
>>535387515>No, it is absolutely relevant because if Kosovo is allowed to secede then Crimea is allowed to secedeThen Crimea is allowed to secede and that STILL doesn't give Russia the right to invade. What the fuck are russians doing in Ukraine right now if only Crimea wanted to secede? Why did they have to hold "elections" in Donbas with guns pointed at their civilians?
>>535383248Why would they do that when they can pile up Russian corpses for pennies on the dollar without even fighting by just letting the war drag on indefinitely?
>>535371939Yes, and the reality is that Russia has done everything it could for decades to maintain good relations with the West, and the West did everything they could to keep othering Russia. Putin even wanted to join NATO. All the gayops done in Ukraine and around Russia, including bringing NATO up to their doorstep, proves that America and the West are bad actors that don't stick to their word nor have any genuine desire to reconcile.
>>535387563>Not really. the steppe above Crimea was contested. It was not a turkish state.I wrote Turkic not Turkish. Crimean Tatars and Mishar horders were overflowing in the area and making Slav lives hell there.Ironically without Russian empire, even if you think everyone there was Ukrainian, Ukrainians pretty much always owed their expansions to Moscow, whether it was in Russian empire or USSR. For Ukrainians their past is a mixture. if they brand whole Russia as evil, they will simply look stupid to someone who knows history. Obviously Russians didn't work for good of Ukraine and had their own interest, not the point I am trying to make, and I don't like the 2022 invasion. But since I have no stake in this fight I can be less biased than either of them.
gee i wonder if between this and conversations of nato moving eastwards, did russia monkey do anything that might have worried the surrounding countries and therefore motivated them to begin considering protection from said monkey....hmmmmmmmmmmnah they probably didnt do anything to warrant that, it was probably the rest of the world just being evil and conspiring against them for no reason, "le this but unironically" the zigger shall say
>>535387665Because, faggot shill, ukraine has been launching offensives to take back Crimea since 2014.Russia only invaded because 5 days prior ukraine started shelling Donbas again.
>>535387665They didn’t invade Crimea, since they seceded they have the right to whatever they want with their borders, just like how Kosovo can allow nato to station troops in their borders. Likewise they also have the right to hold a referendum and join another country, this is a legally recognized process.>if only Crimea wanted to secede There has been a civil war in Ukraine since 2014 over this very subject. Next you’re gonna say there was no civil war and it was Russian troops from day one. I’ve seen this script before.
>>535374957>equal rights for womenoh I am laffin
>>535387907>Because, faggot shill, ukraine has been launching offensives to take back Crimea since 2014.And thats the civil war they are fighting, what gives Russia the right to invade?>Russia only invaded Thanks for clarifying that Russia is an aggressive nation that invades its neighbours. And thats why its neighbours join NATO.Number of neutral nations Russia has invaded in the past 20 years: 3Number of NATO nations Russia has invaded in the entire existence of NATO: 0.Its very simple math.
>>535387993>They didn’t invade Crimea, since they seceded they have the right to whatever they want with their bordersAnd Ukraine has the right to contest their secession especially if its done without proper vote or approval by Ukraine. Its an internal matter that no foreign nations have right to get tangled with.
>>535371939>to GorbachovGorbachev isn't the sitting dictator, faggot.
>>535387993are you seriously framing russia funneling armed separatists to the donbas as "a ukrainian civil war" jesus christ ziggers would cream their pants hearing that lolthis russia monkey propaganda is fucking insaaaaaaane lmao, and here I was thinking the west was the worst about this shit
>>535388035>ukraine has the right to contest Nope. Again, Kosovo. That’s the “unilateral” part in unilateral secession, hence why I keep saying it.
>>535388035Its funny when you faggot shills pretend to win arguements.
>>535388176>Nope. Again, Kosovo.Nope. Secessions can result in civil wars if the original nation refuses. If some parts of Russia wants to secede to US, does that give US the right to invade Russia?
>>535372717Lol ok buddy
>>535371939Why not just make a new organization not called NATO?
>>535371939Gorbachev = USSRUSSR ended in 1991If Russia claims the legacy of the USSR then the reason for NATO to exist is proven. Russian aggression makes it relevant still. Frankly, Russia ought to do something about it. Either put up or shut up. They thought they would steamroll Ukraine. They can't because NATO is funding and arming then. So now what? Either Russia can defeat all of NATO or they can't. But fuck stop crying about a country breaking a verbal promise. >We aren't friends
>>535388154Crimea shit was pretty real but they did not receive nearly enough support in the rest of Ukraine. However Ukrainians also sent in troops into the rest of the regions, but if people actually felt heated about it they would grab weapons. Ukrainians in most regions were neither staunch Ukrainians nor staunch Russians, they wanted to be left alone and they wanted a normal government, that's what I gathered. They were without much identity.
>>535372909Are you actually suggesting that if there WAS a signed agreement or treaty with Gorbachev's Soviet Union the US/NATO/EU would feel bound to that treaty? You think that? lel
>>535388354>if people actually felt heated about it they would grab weapons.They did this in east but not enough people supported them and AFU was much stronger, this is when Russian troops came. There were real clashes with real separatists at first, but Ukraine was going to pacify it if Russia didn't intervene.
>>535388282Yeah and guess what happened with Kosovo? They unilaterally seceded, Serbia said that was illegal and retaliated, and nato invaded them. You can say this is whataboutism all you want but Russia is simply following the precedent established and that precedent is that unilateral secession is perfectly valid, and military intervention to force that secession to transpire is also valid.
>>535388282>the rightWhere exactly do these "rights" come from?You are a stupid faggot talking like a child>waaaaaa its not fair!
>>535388456>but Russia is simply following the precedent establishedSo in other words their neighbours are right to join NATO because Russia is attacking its neighbours. Thanks for confirming that Russia is the aggressor.
>>535388460>Where exactly do these "rights" come from?How's that 3 Day operation going, Boris?
>>535372923>There was no agreement that former Soviet states, excluding the former east, not host NATO basesThat's weird. Then why were the units of the Bundeswehr in former East Germany not part of the NATO structure and became only NATO after Poland became a member (IIRC).
>>535388546>you are VPN!>HA I WIN!You troons are too obvious
>>535388623Stop projecting Ivan.
>>535387770Yes, but again, the steppe above Crimea was contested, it was only Crimea that was dominated by the Khanate. Yes, I made a typo there too. Again, that was all contested territory.>Ukrainians pretty much always owed their expansions to MoscowWhat is destroying the Hetmanate, Liquidating the Sich, banning the language they speak, muh Holodomor to you?>For Ukrainians their past is a mixtureYeah and the past of Muscovites is the mixture that starts with being a tax enforcer for mongoloids, murdering their "brothers" for that "privilege"
>>535388515Okay so you agree that Russia didn’t actually do anything wrong here, Crimea had the right to secede which means LDPR has the right secde, and Russia has the right to invade Ukraine in order to facilitate that secession?
>>535371939Well known for over 30 yearsUSA is a degenerate blood thirsty lying piece of shit who puts the Wolfowitz doctrine above everything elseAnd this empire will fall soon
>>535388554Germany is a NATO member, its army is integrated into NATO command, what's banned is foreign NATO troop stationing, foreign bases, WMDs, etcSo by "NATO bases" it is obviously meant the USA.
>>535388655Did that party get elected?NoGo be a little faggot bitch elsewhere>waaaaaaaa its not fair!
>>535388819>Crimea had the right to secedeHow did "Crimea" secede when they shut down the parliament illegally?More shit-for-eyes rambling.Still waiting for you to detail and source how Girkin claimed he was in Crimea the same time as in the Donbas.We both know you won't though, retarded nigger as usual.
>>535388655Lets do a deep dive, tranny faggot shill.What party did she belong to?>Yulia Aleshina will now lead the party’s office in the Altai Territory, a picturesque mountainous region in Siberia, around 3,000 kilometers east of Moscow.And after the elected her Putin dissolved the entire party and threatened to put him in a mental institution if he didnt fuck off back to obscurity.Like what should be done with you 30 post disinfo faggots
>>535388819>Okay so you agree that Russia didn’t actually do anything wrongNope. They invaded. In the eyes of all its neighbours thats wrong and dangerous, thats why they joined NATO. Moral right and wrong have nothing to do with global politics. If Russia is aggressive towards its neighbours, then its neighbours will join Russia's enemies. Its very simple. If Russia doesn't want NATO to expand then it should stop shooting its neighbours with artillery, the polandball comic perfectly encapsulated it: >>535382094Ironically Russia was gaining influence in western Europe with its gas production and slowly pushing away the american influence from the regions, then Putin decided to attack Ukraine and all the non-military attempts to get friendly neighbours evaporated instantly.
>>535389346>>535389056>Nooooo thats not a real russian because it just isnt!Keep seething nigger
>>535389126Girken also swore he didnt shoot down that airliner he was convicted of.Funny how they cherry pick what to believe what he said.
>>535389485Not even remotely close to what I saidAre you a bot?
>>535389562>Not even remotely close to what I saidClearly it upset you since you had to respond to it twice.
>>535371939I don't give a fuck what they promised to USSR.Russia is a great local power but it is not a super power.They can fuck off and stop their little imperialistic projects.
>>535389637I wanted to check out your meme. Unlike you I am not an expert on Siberian troons
>>535376966>>nafo troonsI've notice zigger are obessed with these words
>>535389508>Girken also swore he didnt shoot down that airliner he was convicted of.Wow, really? Some subhuman saying that he didn't commit a massive war crime involving the murder of hundreds of people from Western Europe, despite the fact that he blogged and celebrated it thinking that it was hohol airliner? Now, again, source retarded shit-for-eyes claim that Girkin said such a thing that he was in both places in the same month, let alone the same day.I'll be waiting.
>>535372989russians are deceiving niggers, nothing changes
>>535390102niggers cant help but lie cheat and steal
>>535388354The issue is that between the Budapest memorandums and the 1997 Treaty on Friendship, Cooperation, and Partnership Between Ukraine and the Russian Federation, Russia quite clearly recognized Crimea as part of Ukraine. The area was pretty firmly Ukrainian soil at that point, and in 2014 russia just went full monkey mode because their russia backed puppet lost to the western backed puppet during euromaidan, which by the way, needed very little manipulation if any at all, Yanukovych was EXTREMELY unpopular leading up to his loss.
>>535389936So you are saying ww shouldnt believe a word that comes out of his mouth?So why do nafo troons quote him everyday here?
>>535390210>Russia quite clearly recognized Crimea as part of Ukraine.Russia had a lease on Sevistipol until 2042
>>535389936Had to check your posts>>535385607>Even Girkin admitted that much years before the second invasion of UkraineSo one post you swear he tells the truth then the next you swear he liesIts like you are a disgusting faggot shill that lies with zero shame
>>535390276One is being responsible for the unit that murdered a plane full of EuropeansThe other is inquiring about the claim shit-for-eyes made about him contradicting himselfGirkin isn't the only source that over 50 Russian military stormed the Supreme Council building, shut down the parliament, replaced the entire leadership with someone whose party only got 4% of the vote in the previous year, in a closed session, to call an illegal referendum for their annexation, btw. Don't know if you knew that, considering you're a retarded nigger and everything like shit-for-eyes. Or maybe you changed IDs. Who knows.
>>535390189lmao this clip needs to be posted at every zigger until the end of timeand clearly putin monkey only changed his mind once the pro russian candidates in ukraine started losing to pro western candidates, and obviously that was going to happen considering under Yanukovych, the state wanted more trade and political ties with europe (which had nothing to do with not one inch eastward nato shit, finland was in the eu without being in nato for fucking ages), and when a bill finally came to his desk that would solidify those ties with europe, he set it on fire and accepted a 1.5 billion dollar aid package from russia instead. when people protested this, he literally killed them lol
>>535390518
>>535390498>>So one post you swear he tells the truth then the next you swear he liesNone of my posts said anything of the sort. I asked shit-for-eyes retard to source his claim that Girkin contradicted himself by claiming to be in multiple places at the same time. He will never be able to, because shit-for-eyes is the liar in this case.I'll call you "illiterate nigger" for the rest of this thread. Did you know that there are other sources for these well-known facts about the Crimean annexation other than Girkin, illiterate nigger?Crazy, right?
>IT NEVER HAPPENEDDDDDD>RUSSOPHOBIAAAAAS
>>535390518How come its always 30-50 post lying faggots like you that are shilling for Zelensky?
>>535390344A Lease on a particular port or plot of land for infrastructure are absolutely not a transfer of sovereignty lmao, the united states leases the Guantanamo bay naval base from Cuba, but that doesn't mean its US territory. Can you imagine if we decided to invade Cuba using our lease on Guantanamo as justification? Complete retardation
>>535390792Do you have a rebuttal?Didn't think so. Seethe for me.
