Genuinely, what's the downside to this?It's not enough money to live off of, you will still have to work.just enough so a college student has time to study on weekends or make friends (incredibly important to make friends in college) instead of working odd jobs. Just enough so you won't have to worry about at least a bill.Unless you're in an African or a Negro society, everyone wants to work so It "encourage laziness" is a myth since it actually encourages people to work in non-economically viable but necessary jobs. and just have an ultimatum for a city, if inproductivity rises cut the UBI.And don't even get me started with "The government doesn't have money" every government has enough money. It's just that they throw it all away on useless shit because they get paid better that way.Plus if let's say it's $500 a month (2÷ of American Poverty line)A poor person will either but fent (and die so the problem takes care of itself) or buy things necessary to lift himself out of poverty (like a government ID or some decent clothes to get himself a Janitor job)A middle class will either spend it to pay a debt/bill, invest/save it, or stimulate the local economy by buying a hooker or smth.And a rich guy will basically just give it away.All governments are already throwing away massive amounts of money on corporate welfare, giving it to Israel, or making it disappear in mysterious ways, why don't they just throw it at us?
>>543071267>The world would be much better if we just give free money to everyone.Once you’re older than five, you’ll realize that food and infrastructure have to be created by other people, and if you get access to them for free, that’s theft.
It's impossible to prevent abuse. As soon as you introduce UBI inside a country then you will have 10 m^2 apartments in which on paper 100 indians a room sharing while in reality they are all living in other countries.
>>543071267UBI cannot work unless coupled with land value tax.
>>543071267>Genuinely, what's the downside to this?it will never ever be instituted
>>543071267>Just enough so you won't have to worry about at least a bill.But why? Why shouldn't you worry about how you create value to sustain yourself and justify your existence? Most people who live on welfare don’t do anything because once they already have the money, they have no incentive to create value. The more people live on welfare, the fewer people there are creating value, which means there is less value for society to share, so everyone becomes poorer.
besides I don't believe anyone has solved the issue where when you give everyone [x] amount, that amount is no longer worth anywhere near as much
>>543071267If people have more money, they spend more money. If there's more demand for goods and services without the necessary increase in supply, then there's a shortage. Prices increase, negating the point of having UBI to begin with.
>>543071267>1) It will never happen>2) If it did, prices of everything would just be boosted to extract your UBI from you (rent goes up by x amount per month)>3) Why would the people happy to poison your food, evade as many taxes as they can and exploit people to extract as much money as they can from consumers "suddenly" start paying into a fund that dispenses free money to you?
>>543071548this, inflation makes average cost of living go up, suddenly that calculated UBI isn't enough, has to go up again, snowballs
>>543071548>Prices increase, negating the point of having UBI to begin with.Not just that. If you are a person with a job then your bargaining power will be reduced compared to people who don't have a job. You work hard to buy stuff and suddenly a neet can compete with you for the same goods.
>>543071548This anon gets it. If everyone gets $500, it’s the same as everyone getting $0 or $20,000. The supply of resources that can be paid for don’t increase, so it’s essentially automatic inflation, an increase in national debt, and a temporary boost in GDP. Pointless imaginary numbers.
>>543071267>Every1 gets 2k a month>Everything combined costs 3k a month more than before>????>ProfitHell yeah brother, free money
>>543071267There is no difference between it and gibs besides the amount of bureaucracy and who gets the money. Anything else is just debate on the amount of money that should be extracted and redistributed.
Okay I am pretty retarded. I keep hearing about UBI and It's too good to be true. What is the catch?
do it faggot
People will just spend it on disney toys and funko pops instead of actual important things. I've been around enough people (women especially) to know they are not responsible with money and are two paychecks away from begging their ex bf to fuck them in the ass for a room to sleep
>>543071655try reading the thread
Who pays and it will eventually be heavily controlled. Rich people already control the money supply enough. Most of it isn't even in circulation.
>>543071267It’s a niggers wet dream It can never work in reality.
>>543071655>What is the catch?basic economics
>>543071267>mouse utopia in real lifeit did not go well at all
What many people don’t understand is that the state welfare system erodes and hollows out natural social safety nets and social behavior itself. It should be in the individual’s own interest to build social connections, a family, and good relationships with neighbors who can help them out if they fall on hard times. It should also be in the individual’s interest to learn how to behave in a way that makes other people willing to have them in their social circles. If the state takes care of people, the need for these things disappears, and people become antisocial and isolated (and also dependent on the state). All of this can be derived from individual incentives.
>>543071491UBI isn't enough to off of, a person will literally suffer trying to live with it.And what do you mean by "Creating value", Middle management "create value" on paper but they contribute nothing to society's advancements
>>543071267>give everyone 1000 extra bucks a month>cost of life instantly raises 1000 (or more)You retarded cretins are so goddamn stupid
>>543071909>UBI isn't enough to off of, a person will literally suffer trying to live with it.I only mixed a tiny bit of pee into your lemonade. That little won’t make you sick.
>>543071267it accelerates the systemwhich sounds great if you haven't been paying attentionbeing that our current economic machines are being hardcore parasitized it would be extremely difficult to implement in a way that didn't just fuck everyone but the .01% over
>>543071267Where will the money come from?
>>543071909>And what do you mean by "Creating value", Middle management "create value" on paper but they contribute nothing to society's advancementsWhether someone creates value can only be determined by the people who choose to do business with them. But if you’re worried about bullshit jobs, there would be far fewer of them if the government weren’t handing out my money to NGOs, banks, consulting firms, and uncompetitive large corporations.
>>543071267there's no downside but it doesn't fix the problem that, in a world of mass automation, the proles having nothing to offer the state and thus the state has no incentive to feed, house or teach the proles. It may continue to do so out of principle but every time the reigns change there's a chance the benevolence stops.
>>543071983Current inefficient and ineffective forms of welfare. Corporate Welfare. Proven Bullshit government spending. I believe all Governments have enough money for this already. No need to raise taxes
>>543071548This is my understanding as well. But I'd still like to see someone else try it so we could see it happen.
Milton Friedman was a hack but his negative income tax model is UBI but solves all of the problems of it almost flawlessly.
>>543071267It's a subsidy for low wages. Welfare on steroids. Take from the successful workers and small business owners and give to the megacorps who now don't have to pay as much because govt is subsidizing their employees.
>>543072219>No need to raise taxesSweetie if your maths is shit do not talk about spending money.You ALREADY HAVE UBI in form of social security and retirement plans. This money is spent monthly to keep retired people alive. And it already takes 1/2 of yearly budged in every single developed country.And you want to give money to all the people where there are more non retired people than retired. Where will you get this money from?
>>543072219I can tell that you are morbidly obese.
>>543071267there is no downside, once ai is able to produce all food and everything else for humanity/ we will live in a utopia. Anyone telling you that this is bad is coping and is a RETARD.
>>5430724711st, I'm not your sweetie faggot.2nd, where the fuck do you get that 1/2 number? Up your faggot ass?
>>543072515Says the American
>>543071529Jobs, too. A worker is dependent on his employer paying him. The difference: most companies today don't pay their profits back into society. People on welfare do. They spend their money. It goes back into the economy. Working has become more antisocial than being on welfare, seethe and cope boomie
>>543072635You didn’t deny you’re morbidly obese
>>54307255221st century, you can google it and have results with sources given how much each country spend on retirement plans. I did it for each EU countries and USA which stays on the lower edge of about 38.5% yearly budget including taxcuts and all subsidies for social secutiry. And it is about half of yearly budget in every other country. If you cannot even check data you are given at hand why do you want to be taken seriously sweet cheeks?
>>543072708I would be morbidly obese if America didn't fuck my country over by assassinating my country's only hope, you terrorists
>>543071595Yeah this is the main issue basically the exact same issue with Social Security, a person who paid out like 5 bucks a paycheck in the 70s is $1500+snap benefits because without adjusting for 2026 cost they'd getting an 80 check every month. Its never enough and cost will rise even faster because of it
>>543071267Just make sure all this free housing and food concentrated somewhere far away in say some kind of camps.
>>543071267>Genuinely, what's the downside to this?Where will the funding come from?
>>543071267i'd be mich harder to exploit people and companies would actually have to take care of their workers since noone would want to work there anymore. amazon would fail instantly. tesla as well. filthy rich people have a lot to lose with this. they'd have to drop down to only being rich. and we all know that's not happening.
>>543072713Even on the countries that spend the most on welfare, you couldn't get half. You really did pull that 1/2 out your faggot ass
Yang provided the problem with it when he later appended his UBI stance to deny UBI to 'white supremacist racists' or 'anti-semites' so it's wouldn't really be universal, would it? basically just live on the dole and never criticize the jews or sacred cows.
>>543071267The reason you think this works is because you don't understand how our system works.People keep track of what they want from you and target you if they don't get it.THAT MONEY WILL NOT BE FREE. Any category that benefits from it without providing the source with value will be in negative social credit score and will get systematically targetted.The source is whoever DECIDES over you getting payed. (Government / owners class).Example:Timeline for ads in subway surfers.> I stopped clicking on their ads because the advertised games always suck> They switched to always forcing you onto playstore to close ads (multiple times for each ad)> GrapheneOS no longer supports that (instead opening a small window asking whether you want to open other app)> They show scummy ads> They show actively disgusting ads> I disallow subway surfers from connecting to to internet> Subway surfers now drops inputs (simply not responding (was never really an issue before, no update happened to subway surfers)This matches with the behaviour of other "services".All our stuff works like this. EVERYTHING.> Movies get made to target the types of people most likely to pirate (same with games)> TV targets who is least likely to watch ads> Youtube and twitch will literally introduce bugs as well if you are in a bad categoryThis can be bugs, but often is just done by introducing things you don't like. Just look at modern ads.Masculine, alternative, right wing men are most likely to pirate, to circumvent stuff built in to make money, to repair stuff using without paying manufacturer.This is probably why they make stuff with the explicit goal that you don't like it.
Why would the powers that be that already call everyone not them Useless eaters give money to the useless eaters>inb4 then we will kill themno you wont you wont do shit just like you arn't doing shit now
>>543072932If I had 600 bucks guaranteed by the gubment every month, id honestly happily go for a shithole like Walmart because that $600 check would actually be the difference between actually having hobbies and going out for dinner twice a month, vs having to MonkMax because the Walmart check barely cover the bills and leaves me with like 100 bucks for food for the month(which I can only afford to buy from Walmart with the employee discount)
>>543071267>It's not enough money to live off of, you will still have to work.Then its useless
>>543071416>>543071491Did you take the vax? Just aksing.
>>543073099If only I got free money every month, I’d be able to really get stuff done!UBI falls apart of you think about it for more than five minutes. Which is why it sounds good to niggers. They can’t conceptualize the future
>>543073045So it's like having a job. Got it. Thx. The rest of your wall of text is unrelated
>>543073198Genuinely, If YOU, YOU SPECIFICALLY got 600 bucks every month, You really would not do anything??? Sounds like you're a lazy bum
>>543071267People who need it, effectively might not get it anyway.Poor people are usually also heavily in debt, and the money would immediately be snapped up by kike 'creditors'. In fact this whole thing might be set up to funnel more money into jewish pockets via debt slavery.
>>543071267We will be forced to do it thanks to AI and robots. It's just a matter of time.
>>543073198Tell us why it would fall apart then, you expert. Or are you still at minute 4?
>>543073433I know better than to accept something like that. You have no discernment.
>>543071267>give everyone $20>price of everything goes up $20>repeatUBI is retarded
>>543073514It had been repeatedly explained in this thread
>>543073573Source? Or are YOU just retarded with a preschool understanding of economy?
>>543073573Not like now where prices stay the same for ever and ever. KEK. Retard
>>543073634>sourceJust look at you lol
>>543073614Nope. Shit and piss on the floor isn't an explanation, boomer
>>543071267Not possible when borders are open, otherwise a good idea.
>>543071267Why stop there. Why not ULI? Universal Luxury Income. Put everyone in the 1% instead of being such a commie prick.
>>543073142i see. if you like working there ok, but the point is that shit conditions would be easier to leave behind because your whole fucking existence wouldnt be threatened. its basically fuck you money, which is fine for most people. 90% would still work somewhere, id just be a bit easier.
>>543071267Grow up retard
>>543071267The main downside would be that the ruling elite begin seeing the working-class masses not as fellow human beings but rather a drain on resources and parasites. They would likely attempt to kill most of them. Top down class warfare. Basically, reverse communism with ultra-rich self-victimization and eventually purging the poor.
>>543073954Says the Retard
Welfare for the poor is an indirect allowance for boomer landlords anyway, the poor spend 75% of their gibs on rent for an appartment the owner purchased for the proce of one bag of bananas and a firm handshake in 1992.The wealthiest person I know rents out 70 appartments to poorfags on government assistance, makes almost 60K/month. When gibs go up he raises the rent, poorfags have nowhere else to go, taxpayers eat shit.
>>543074173>gibs me free stuffs plzthink about the consequences of it for more than 5 seconds that's all you need to dowho is going to pick up the trash?noonejust grow up kid
>>543073901My point is that it would actually encourage more people to go work shitty jobs they don't like because the extra money would let them actually participate in society instead of being some robot who exists to pay the landlord and live off rice and ramen.Why the fuck would an 18 year old or even 20 year want to leave their parents basement right now if a McDonald's gig can't even afford a flat with roommates
All welfare goes to a few people who rent out hundreds of roach infested flats for €700/month. Or in america, a few people who rent out thousands of roach infested trailers for $900/month.Welfare is a subsidy for slumlords, increase welfare, they increase rent, easy
>>543074002No, it's the opposite. UBI is the alternative to purging the poor. What you describe is how they feel about the poor now, and with the way things are going there is a high possibility the poor will revolt and fuck things up for everybody. That's when they really would need to get purged. UBI is the answer to that. It's appeasement. Like legalized weed. It's to protect the elite from being dethroned. Keep the masses happy and able to buy slop.
>>543071437>impossibleAnd what if the wallet is linked to your body?
>>543071508The solution is the government price fixing literally everything.
>>543074210>>543074319>it's a bad idea because parasites and scum existUBI would make your slumlord obsolete. Competition would drive him off the market and then he would be beaten to death in the street by his previous tenants like the dog he is
>>543074420They should start from Nvidia GPUs.
>>543071267Why only $500 a month? Why not make it 500 million then we can all have supercars and beach houses on Nantucket and shit? Post pics of your brown hand with timestamp and explain why you would set your sights so low?
>>543071267I think its perfectly fine, but honestly you should be able to prove you pay taxes/have a job as well as not be an illegal or on other gibs in order to qualify for it.
UBI is a good idea to stupid, fat niggersYou have to be a fat stupid nigger to think it’s a good idea
>>543074241The people picking trash will still be picking trash, just suffering less
>>543074494And why is it always about standing in lines for these people kek, they are so excited that AI will finally bring them UBI, what about just having your own AI and cutting out all middlemen entirely, since we are playing pretend anyway why not imagine that we would never need anyone ever again?
>>543071548>>543071595>>543071634>>543071641The fallacy in that logic imo is that economy isn't a black body where every value of currency has its corresponding value of goods or services.Once you get to a certain level, money is something that you push around in great quantities and it isn't much more than just a number.Our economy was built by the wrong premise that wealth would trickle down, but that didn't happen obviously, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.But with UBI there would be an actual trickle effect. Money would be spent and people would get motivated to live their lives and do something with their skills and talents. Nothing is more crippling and depressing than asking yourself everyday how you should feed yourself and if you will be able to pay rent this month, and more and more people are in that spot.There won't be a shortage of goods because of this, why would it? If demand grows, the prices will go up, but that's okay.There's enough food and supply of basic necessities in the capitalistic overproducing economy. The question isn't so much if we can afford UBI, but if we can afford not having UBI.It's really funny to me that the poorer three quarters of our society defend a system where the richest people just move money around, inherit it or get it through speculation and renting or by selling natural ressources that in fact should belong to all of us.This might be the last few years in which we can fix it...once AI replaces a ton of jobs there will be even more people who can't afford food and rent. Sadly we are further away from it than ever seeing all the right wing administrations all over the world.It's really sad that the rich always manage to create unrest between the poor and weakest parts of society.
>>543071267The downside is that it will immediately become useless without price control. Companies would instantly raise prices since now people have "extra" cash and we have to create value for shareholders.
>>543074536Why do you people keep thinking about fat stupid niggers??? Do you want to suck fat nigger dick?Stop thinking about sweaty stinky nigger balls for 5 minutes and think about the hard working white men who will benefit from this. Nigger are a minority, they won't be the main beneficiary of UBI.Or are you a Nigger cuck?
>>543074577>The people picking trash will still be picking trash,Yes, picking up trash is dalit work. What do you do for work now and how will your life change with $500 a month? Why not aim a little higher like 5000,or 50,000 at least?
>>543074675there's competition between companies though, it's the most basic thing about capitalism.If the raise prices, the one company that sells it cheap wins. Unless they have illegal agreements, of course, but in a non-corrupt country there should be measures against that to a certain extent (not in Trumpstan of course)
>>543071267The problem is that you have to reassure us that people will totally still work in your very first statement because studies of places where they've already tried this show that youre lying and they won't, which is why no place thay ever tried this is still doing it. You are a lazy piece of shit and should be culled, not given a free ride.
>>543074768it's the difference between worrying about feeding yourself and losing your place to sleep from the moment you wake up until you go to bed.$500 might be too little, though, I think $1000 should work.You also could get rid of the entire welfare system which saves a ton of money.
>>543071267>what's the downside to this?The ones who control it will use it to control the masses. Concept is fine, but the powers that be that will run it will do so with the single goal of controlling you with it.
>>543074845>there's competition between companies thoughNot as much as you think, and certainly not enough to motivate them to forgo profits. I'm not anti-capitalist, but major companies are almost always run by psychopaths.
>>543074896>You also could get rid of the entire welfare system Now you’re talking
>>543074874>You are a lazy piece of shit and should be culled, not given a free ride.that's what the rich elite is wanting us to believe...in reality every human being should have the right to at least have a place to sleep and enough food. The richest people are the most harmful and lazy ones and they keep winning if we still fight each other and if we think having access to the ressources that belong to everybody means being lazy.I inherited a bit of money a few years ago and I can pay out myself ~1000$ a month. That was the moment when I got out of my crippling depression, got up early, got jobs, developed as a human being, because I didn't worry about my basic needs all day everyday.If I hadn't gotten this, I probably would have continued doing drugs and wasting my life away.What's the use to society to have millions of dysfunctional people who become alcoholics or drug addicts and cost us even more?UBI in relation is a small investment to give those millions an incentive to live.
>>543075014This is what UBIs are replacing, instead of the shitty welfare given only to lazy bums, give a small income to everyone from the Hardworking to the lazy, to the fortunate and to the unfortunate
>>543071267> Genuinely, what's the downside to this?So we just print money redistribute it to a bunch of undeserving unproductive non-taxpayers and we’ll all live happily ever after?Of course it’ll work.
The downside is jews keep shaving coins via "inflation". Your UBI will be worth half of what it is a year from now and you'll need to be vaxxed and boooosted to access it.
>>543075209you're right, it's better to give the money to people who inherited billions or buy and rent out thousands appartments or just get millions from dividends every year without paying tax.But hey, get your lazy ass to work and build the infrastructure for those people to have a convenient life.
>>543075209Why do you keep thinking about Bums? Do you wanna suck smegma covered Bum dick?They're an extremely small minority, most people who will benefit from UBI are the hardworking taxpayers
>>543072689A person who has a job, also has skills to do that job. Others are competing for his skills. So he is not as dependent. No one is competing for freeloaders, only politicians, who want their votes. As a neet your competencies and social skills will slowly deteriorate and you will be more and more dependent on your owners.The whole problem starts with the fact that you don’t interpret concepts and context. To you, anything can mean anything. If we use the same word for two different things, then to you those two things can mean the same thing whenever it happens to suit your position in the argument.You don’t believe in functional reality, and you don’t understand value-creating processes or what it takes to maintain the environment you live in. With your current knowledge and decision-making, all you are capable of doing is destroying your surroundings, something you don’t appreciate at the moment because other people are maintaining them for you.You still have a lot to learn.
>>543075209UBI is like to be spent 100%, so it pays taxes, unlike money of the riches ~20% that just sits there to multiply or that is invested somewhere in China or Africa and that doesn't benefit anybody but these rich people.Also that fucking envy issue would be solved where working people hate on people who get welfare because they need to work for their money, and they are in the right to hate them.With UBI they still can work and afford a wealthier lifestyle than the people who don't do anything additional to their UBI.
>>543073177>Guy who believes everything the bureaucrats say and is dependent on the system asks me did I take the vax.Lol! Lmao!
>>543075187Ok I’ll explain it to you.Milton Friedman actually came up with the idea first only he called it reverse income tax, and he might have actually gotten it put into place in the form of Nixon’s family plan if he stayed in office, this whole thing could have been experienced and put to bed already. What’s going to happen is you will create a class of people who are working for no reason, some of the employed will compare how much they gain from working to how much they gain from UBI and decide that the reward for working is not high enough past the point of UBI to be worth continuing, and so they will give up the little bit of luxury they get from working to avoid the psychic cost of working altogether. As people drop out of the workforce because they prefer the leisurely but less rewarded lifestyle of just UBI, the cost of UBI will be disproportionately put on those still working, which will increase the threshold at which people decide to stop working at all. And so it will spiral like that, the burden of UBI will grow and the amount of people paying for it will shrink, and eventually it will fall apart.
>>543075568>UBI is like to be spent 100%, so it pays taxesI genuinely can’t believe the left-wingers here are older than five.
>>543075568I wouldn't work, id imagine the combined UBI my wife and I would make would be enough to live off of, but there is more to it than that, you would also have to include rent reform so that greedy landlords dont raise the rent over night to equal the UBI pay out, and many other predatory things people will do to take ones UBI and make it their own.
>>543074267yeah, we differ on what is shitty. i see your point and agree. meaningless jobs would be tolerated easier, but yet again the outright abuse would be given the finger. which is fine.
>>543075536"Value-creating process" ahh yes, the ultimate Value-creating process of Middle management
>>543071267My parents never gave me an allowance as a kid. Why should we give one to all the nuggets in the country?
>>543075719I mean if you really do understand better then start a business and get rich, oh right the grand conspiracy of all CEOs will conspire against you
>>543075719>the ultimate Value-creating process of Middle managementI already answered to this earlier.But it's interesting how you want to give free money to everyone by force but if someone gives money to a useless manager voluntarily then somehow that's bad.
>>543075666Absolute strawman. That's only one model of doing it and a completely obsolete one, too. >>543075683I'm not a "left-winger", I just observe the world I live in. Also you didn't make the effort to give an actual argument why it isn't like that.I'm not saying UBI is self sustaining, but it still will be to ~100% spent, paying taxes and supporting local economy in the process.
>>543075725You're telling me, YOU don't want an allowance from the government, instead of just Lazy bums? You know what UNIVERSAL means right? Everyone not just Bums
>>543075666The Universal in UBI is the issue, there should not be a universal pay out system. If you work a job that pays $99.999 a year or less you get the UBI, but the closer one is to the limit they get a smaller UBI. Might think there is not incentives to work, but now jobs have to compete against the UBI and have to offer up better benefits and stuff to grt people to be willing to forgo a UBI. There are many ways it can work, but it being Universal is not one of them.
>>543074896>it's the difference between worrying about feeding yourself and losing your place to sleepSo you're worried about how you're going to eat or where you're going to sleep tonight but you're spending your afternoon shitposting on 4chan?But why not just give everybody a shitload of free money then we can all collect supercars and have nice beach houses and shit?What are you doing for work now and what will you do once you get your universal free shit?
>>543075706sure, many reforms would be necessary to make it work, but those would be reforms that are necessary anyway in my opinion. As we do it now, we just watch as the world gets fucked up more and more every year and people still seem to like it and vote for it.
>>543075848It’s not a strawman it’s a steelman, it doesn’t change if you adjust the numbers, and people don’t just have to stop working for this to be the effect, they can also work less or not as hard. Either way the result is the same, the people on the take grow and the people giving shrinks.
>>543075836When the fuck did I say by force?? It's Social Welfare that's already being given to you, but instead of it being through a corporation and etc, it's given to you directly. Corporate Welfare is a large government expenditure
>>543075848>I'm not a "left-winger"If you support UBI on any ground then you are a left winger. There are many things that can make someone left-winger, and UBI goes far beyond of them. The idea of UBI completely ignores how a society is able to function in the real world.
>>543075719>Value-creating processWhat value do you create now? Why don't you tell me why we can't have universal shitload of income so that we can all just be filthy stinking rich and live in luxury?
>>543075958>People don't work as hard if they aren't going to die if they miss a day of workSrsly?
>>543071267Stop discussing ubi, there won't be any ubi. Companies and nations will not share the gains of what they sell. They only want more and will never stop wanting more.
>>543071267If you can't live within a country anymore, it's literally not your country anymore, UBI ensures citizens don't literally become stateless and kickd out of the US or enslaved in prisons due to poverty.
>>543076074My god, you yanks are retarded
>>543075848>Also you didn't make the effort to give an actual argumentThe meme explains it. Your logic is circular. It's like a free energy machine. Also you don't understand money. Money is not value. It's an exchange or signal for value. If the government gives you your money then you are not a taxpayer.
>>543076088Was I being too good of faith when I explained it to you? There will be a threshold where working is not worth it, this threshold can only grow as people leave it.
>>543076021>When the fuck did I say by force??The government cannot redistribute money without force.
>>543076050Left wing is when you believe welfare shouldn't just be for lazy bums but also for the hardworking man
>>543074657>The fallacy in that logic imo is that economy isn't a black body where every value of currency has its corresponding value of goods or services.It's just supply and demand, anon. Obviously nobody thinks 'well a dollar SHOULD be able to buy x or y' they're just looking at what sells. If you have too many buyers, you naturally increase cost to thin the number. >There's enough food and supply of basic necessities in the capitalistic overproducing economy. For things with elastic supply, sure. But what about stuff with inelastic supply, such as housing? You can't simply build new apartments to compete the price down, due to zoning laws and construction time. If a lot of people start looking for better accomodations right away, then why wouldn't landlords just increase the price and pocket your UBI check for themselves? UBI by itself doesn't fix anything, anon, you need genuine policy changes and social services to protect people.
>>543076021>Corporate Welfare is a large government expenditureHow large is it? Which corporations are getting all that welfare? Do they just get a check from the department of treasury every month for existing? Can you cite the laws that provide for this to happen?Why can't we just have universal shitload of income so that we can all buy a beach house on Malibu or Nantucket? Why set your sights so low?
>>543076050Yes, well no, but yes. What Im trying to say is UBI is a left topic, yes, and while I lean right on most things, I lean left on the two subjects /pol/ seethes about a lot and thats weed and UBI. Weed should be legal, and UBI should be a thing, though it should be Limited Basic Income and not a universal thing. Many things can have it taken from you, basically think of it as a payment for being a good citizen basically. >>543076089100% its just a fun fantasy larp people like to imagine, like think of a world people only did things that actually cared about, but people can be so lazy they dont even do that
>>543075923>But why not just give everybody a shitload of free money then we can all collect supercars and have nice beach houses and shit?nobody is talking about a shitload, it should be enough to keep people fed and sheltered. I guess you could have done that in the US with the money you gave to Israel's war already.>What are you doing for work now and what will you do once you get your universal free shit?I'm working as a musician, I'm performing and I teach, and I work as a delivery driver for a pharmacy. I have my personal UBI already, because I inherited enough money to pay myself 1000$ a month basically for forever, and that's the reason why I get up and work everyday. It's not as paradox as it seems. Being poor and worried all the time is crippling and costs our society more than the UBI could ever cost us. And that's before the potential upheaval of AI.>>543075958sure it's a strawman. I don't care what some faggot Nixon politician worked out decades ago. There are numerous ideas how UBI could be financed, one of them is taxing financial transactions, but there are others as well. The money is in the system, it sits with the rich elite who doesn't have any goal but to get richer and richer. Saying that the working man has to pay it is exactly their way of creating quarrel among the weakest parts of society. The fact that we fight about it ITT is proof of that. We should demand a part of the ressources that belong to everybody.
>>543076190They're already fucking doing that you retard, ever heard of Taxes? UBI is just a way the government will do it less retardedly
>>543076195Left wing is when you think the government should redistribute wealth.
The hand that feeds can abuse the hand that mouth that gets fed. Once anyone can control your income and your housing they effectively control your life
>>543076216Corporations are welfare in a sense homie, you think the free market has LLCs? Corporations were born out of the state corporate charter, it’s entirely questionable whether they would exist without the government.
>>543076259RIGHT WING GOVERNMENTs ALSO DO TAXES RETARD
>>543071267Because tardo if it is less than complete communism then all it will do is increase inflation. Do you know why inflation has been so bad? Min wage increases. We told em it would happen, they didnt care. The beyond the numbers for a second, and you see that the problem is that the wealthy people, starting from the top and moving down, just demand more to compensate so that nothing changes, no status or value changes, and that is exactly what happens and will always happen every time. Values are "locked in" to minimum tolerable conditions for common peasants to not revolt. Actually they slowly condition us to move the bar down over time, but'd ve a whole nother topic.Anyway, the way this society functions by that principle renders it literally impossible by its very nature for you to do anything that "helps" the common peasant.
>>543076157>Your logic is circular. It's like a free energy machine.that logic applies to investment banking, inheriting money and renting out appartment right now, though. The rich elite gets richer and richer by means of that free energy machine.Economics isn't physics. Economy isn't a black body. The goal should be not to let a handful of people possess almost everything and make the majority fight and work for what's left.
>>543076088>going to die if they miss a day of workWhat do you do for work now and how many times have you died from missing a day of work?>>543076112>enslaved in prisons due to poverty.How many times has that happened to you or someone you know IRL? What are you doing for work?>>543076126Just explain why we're not aiming a little higher here? Why can't we just give everybody 500 billion a month and then we can all buy our own spaceship companies and fuck off to Mars?
>>543076249>They're already fucking doing that you retard, ever heard of Taxes? UBI is just a way the government will do it less retardedlyDude you are completely clueless about this entire topic. This is the first time in your life you’ve ever argued about this.Yes the government is already redistributing money and that is immoral and harmful for society. Supporting lazy and antisocial people at the cost of everyone else by force is by default bad for society.The UBI just takes this to the next level which is even worse.
>>543076210>It's just supply and demand, anon.yes, I addressed that in my post. I don't mind luxury good becoming more expensive, that's an incentive to keep working to reward yourself with luxury. Supply of basic needs like basic food is completely oversaturated in our system.
Niggers. It always comes back to niggers abusing the system.>n-not all blacks!I agree. Plenty of non blacks are leeching niggers, suckling taxpayer money to sit around and not do shit. There's a huge portion of this country currently living under taxpayer funded UBI via the exploitation of social services. The unproductive dredges of society are why UBI is fucking doomed. Most of you faggots think UBI means "I never have to work again, this is perfect". That's not what it means. It means you can pick your work without the strain of struggling to afford your life in the meantime. You still work. You NEET, faggot retards, you still work.Niggers.
>>543071267INDIANS
>>543076319Now you are conflating concepts.While I am against taxes it's ethically different when you spend taxes on basic infrastructure and public safety than spending it on welfare.
>>543076405UBI isn't just supporting the Lazy, It's supporting the Hardworking people in need of Welfare but not poor and Lazy enough to qualify for one
>>543076454You wanna suck Big Nigger Dicks don't you anon?
>>543071267The goyim cattle have been waiting for kike fiat airdrops for decades now. The boomers in this video were fooled with the great awakening psyop and thought they would become millionaires overnight, not just them but everybody. These losers even paid money via snail mail to be part of the globohomo awakening psyop, most of them are now dead or dying, never saw the millions, never saw the "prosperity programs", that guy probably didn't even fix his teeth and died like that with fucked up teeth. They really thought Bush and Cheney would arrested any moment now by the white hats and Saint Germain and the ascended "masters" would descend on the world stage and shower them with wealth, love and the whole kumbaya experience. https://youtu.be/--UntiMg1SI?t=669
>>543076490He's right, you're a retard. If you cut off the leeches, actual working citizens can make and save more money for the same work. We don't need UBI, we need less welfare leeches, and severely less foreigner and immigration.
>>543076509>meme flag>NEET>argues for UBI>immediately jumps to talking about nigger dicksIt writes itself.
>>543076469All Right Wing governments give forms of welfare, Giving corporations money to hire more people (Which they don't do). Buy Bad Debts (student loans, home loans, etc.) from banks, American Insurance is subsidized by its right wing government
>>543076562No, I want UBI because I dont want to work more than 30 hours a week, while the current system glorifies working 80 hour weeks to live, at least with a UBI one can live off 30 hour work weeks. Ive said it once, it shouldn't be Universal, there should be limiting factors that can prevent from getting it, and one of those facots is a minimum required amount of hours one MUST work to get the UBI, say a minimum of 20 hours a week.
>>543076562than you will have millions more dysfunctional unemployed drug addicts and alcoholics to the millions you have already. Maybe all those people who live in tents on skid row are lazy and worthless motherfuckers, but they still exist and they are a problem, and they are reality. There is a reason why your system cripples so many of your citizens and makes them unable to find out what their skills and talents are.And if AI turn out to actually replace junior level jobs it will be millions more. In the end UBI will cost a lot, but it will only be a fraction of what it will cost not to have it.
>>543076244>nobody is talking about a shitloadWhy not? Why settle for just crumbs when we can just all be filthy rich and live a life of ease and comfort?>I inherited enough money to pay myselfSpoiled trust fund brat doesn't understand the concept of earning money.... color me shocked.>>543076244>There are numerous ideas how UBI could be financed, one of them is taxing financial transactionsYou can stop waiting right now. Just tax yourself 100% every time you pull a grand out of your trust fund and hand it over to some nigger layabout. Be the change you want to see in the world, anon.
>>543076437So... welfare? What you're asking for already exists via stuff like food stamps. The point of UBI is that one should be able to spend their money however they like, but you're starting with a preconceived notion of what one would use that money for, i.e. basic necessities.
>>543076244The same thing still applies, there will be people on the bottom of the people that pay for it, these people will cut bait, the burden will shift upwards and more people will reduce their production which shifts the burden upwards.There isn’t a secret stash of money for you to loot either, nobody is swimming in a scrooge mcduck swimming pool full of money, you are talking about diverting funds away from investing in capital and making society poorer than it otherwise would be if it had spent its own money itself. As for AI again why are you so excited for fucking bread lines, why not give everyone their own means of production? Technology has advanced far beyond the imaginations of communists already.
>>543076795I agree, real working citizens should earn more for less work. Welfare systems, like UBI, are why that will never happen.Here's a sobering thought for you, even if you solve the welfare leeches, the excess money in the government will go toward funding foreign conflicts. If not for Israel, then for Ukraine, etc. Everyone in this thread is sitting around imagining a government that does a full heel turn and suddenly wants to support them. It doesn't, and for over a century, it never has.
>>543076711I'm not the one thinking about niggers all the time>See something good for everyone >B-but t-the Niggers!!!!
>>543076490>UBI isn't just supporting the Lazy, It's supporting the Hardworking peopleThe Universal word means it is for everyone. The lazy would get free money. Which incentivizes lazyness.If you say that workers need UBI, that means they don’t produce enough value to support themselves. That obviously can’t be true, because even 150 years ago the average worker was able to support themselves when there wasn’t even a welfare system, and average productivity has only increased since then.The money for UBI would have to be taken from people who create value anyway, so for those value creators it can only be a negative.Now that you’ve been backed into a corner, in your next comment you’ll probably start talking about charity and people who’ve fallen on hard times, even though I already explained what the workable solution to that is many comments ago.
>>543076249>ever heard of Taxes?How much taxes did you pay last year? What do you do for work?>>543076307>Corporations are welfareCool, my brother and I own an LLC, when does all the free money checks come rolling in?>>543076344>free energy machine.Wow, you've discovered and infinite free shit machine and you're on 4chan holding out the begging bowl for $500 a month? How much more greedy could someone get?>>543076437>Supply of basic needs like basic food is completely oversaturated in our system.So if you have an abundance of all that shit, why aren't you out giving it away to all the people who are struggling? What are you doing on 4chan ringing your begging bowl instead of out there in the real world doing something about all of this?
>>543076812>if you stop financially supporting drug addicts and criminals and deport them when they're not americans, then you'll have so many more of them>let these people hold society hostage with their vices for fear that they revoltHoly fucking retard.
>>543076490>supporting the Hardworking peopleWhat do you do for work? Why can't we just have universal shitload of money?
>>543076942>no arguement>still meme flag>still projecting nigger love onto othersIt's how I know you're a european NEET. You people have become worse than the aussie and jeet posters.
>>543076795You want to work less but you don’t actually get that through mandates, you get that through the natural process of deflation under capitalism. If you want to work less you should be ancap. That’s actually why I am an ancap lol, I don’t really want much out of life more than reading my books and playing my video games, so I just want less work hours. Instead I work 60 hours a week to save for an early retirement because that’s what leftists have done to me.
>>543076936Well thats why I also said ITT UBI is a fine concept but what makes it bad is those in control of it, which are psychos who want nothing more than control, and they will use UBI for massive control>Damn forgot to suck Satan cock today, guess no money will be depostedBasically. Same with Ai, great advancement that should help humanity, but its controlled by the worst kind of people so they will us it for complete control instead.
>>543076541I don't speak Hindi. Can you try that again in English and then try to explain why we can't just have universal shitload of income so that we can all be filthy stinking rich?
>>543071267>Genuinely, what's the downside to this?Paying people to be anti productive is a terrible ideaWould you say service and goods have gotten better or worse since states started implementing $15 minimum wage?
>>543076795>I dont want to work more than 30 hours a weekHow many hours did you work last week? Why don't you want universal shitload of income so that we can all be rich and collect supercars and have beach houses and shit?
>>543076771>All Right Wing governments give forms of welfareGovernments are not black and white. It's still a left wing policy from a "mostly" right wing government. Also governments in general went far to the left in the last 100 years. Like the Democrats push ~80% left wing policies and the Conservatives push ~70% left wing policies. They are both retarded and harmful parties but on slightly different levels.
>>543076771>Giving corporations money to hire more peopleCorporate handouts are just as bad as welfare for mostly the same reasons. It mostly creates fake jobs for parasites.
>>543071588The real answer.
>>543077077>UBI is a fine conceptWhy can't we have universal shitload of income so that we can all buy mansions and private jets?
>>543076815>Spoiled trust fund brat doesn't understand the concept of earning money.... color me shocked.I'm not even arguing against that. The problem is that there are millions of people like me, and with a certain incentive they would have the ability to contribute something to society instead of wasting their life and becoming actual leeches, becoming drug addicts and criminals who then cost a lot more than UBI.The most spoiled brats are the ones who accumulate all the money right now, anyway. >>543076903the welfare system is shit, though. It creates unrest in the working population, because they have to work while others get money for free. With UBI that wouldn't be an issue anymore, because they all get the same.Also you could get rid of the entire bureaucratic organisation of the welfare system and welfare fraud wouldn't be of any concern anymore.UBI fraud might be a problem, but a very small one compared to welfare fraud, because you don't need to lie to get it. It's directly bound to a single person.
>>543077010I'm a Tax Collector. 15% of every coin I made above the Tax exempt threshold.
>>543076771>American Insurance is subsidized by its right wing governmentI have a feeling that you’re arguing that the government should give money to ordinary people instead of banks and large corporations. I’m arguing that the government shouldn’t take anyone’s money and redistribute it to anyone else. Coercive redistribution is institutionalized theft and creates harmful incentives.
>>543076929>There isn’t a secret stash of money for you to loot either, nobody is swimming in a scrooge mcduck swimming pool full of moneyanon, there are thousands of people like that on our planet and they have significantly grown in number over the last decade and the keep growing in number.>The same thing still applies, there will be people on the bottom of the people that pay for it, these people will cut bait, the burden will shift upwards and more people will reduce their production which shifts the burden upwards.the same issue would apply to welfare. that's mere speculation and I don't think that would happen.
>>543077270>get rid of bureaucratsGood luck with that one, they grow through failure. Bureaucrats are what was inside pandoras box.
1) enough fraud is happening already, to prevent that happening here, there would need stringent ID + plus co-ordinated method to distribute the 'money' (digital currency, digital ID, mark of the beast, etc)2) foreigners are having enough kids with monetary constraints as it is, they just pass that cost onto the tax payer. with more free money, there will be more foreign babies. do not want.3) women won't have incentive to pick high value men when everyone has the same access to resources, IE, it will eradicate any competitive metrics for mating that concern intelligence. if you think women are shallow whores now, wait until there's no motivation for them to be with someone for their money anymore. the populations iq will decrease by half in two generations
>>543077270So you've got all that trust fund money and free time, why not just fork over $500 to some drug addict to help them change their life? Seems like you have the power to do something about this right now and yet you're here crying for more free shit for yourself instead. Why not just shill for universal shitload of income so that we can all have megayachts and big beach houses?
>>543071267I already don't work, and UBI would ensure that I never have to, so I'm all for it. I'm a straight 6'2 non-hispanic White male with a thick 8 inch dong and an IQ in the 140s, btw.
>>543071416Yes, Israel is a nation of thieves.
>>543074384I would strap a bomb on interested individuals, it detonates if they leave the country.
>>543077286The government IS going to take your money, no ifs, ands, or buts. you CANNOT argue that the government shouldn't tax, it's impossible. So we really can only argue that the use Taxes less retardedly
>>543077080At the end of clip, the caller explains what would happen if everybody had millions overnight. Anyway, as long as golems like you exist nothing will ever change, even after getting your handouts you will still be the same vile jewish golem.
>>543073573People already get gibs. We need a new system birthrate is collapsing everywhere and AI will make many jobs obsolete.
>>543077379Jeet, stop pretending to be white
>>543077278>I'm a Tax Collector.What sort of taxes do you collect?>15% of every coin I made above the Tax exempt threshold.What is that in Rupees?
>>543077365All you have is mere speculation you offensive idiot. Since you half quoted me out of context I’ll put it more plainly ALL TAXES ARE BAD FOR ALL OF US, there is no unused money you can take out without pain, all money is being invested. You are taking away society’s investments not just some punks inappropriate hoard.
>>543071267Saaar yes everyone rich with gommunism pls redeem.
>>543077369>women won't have incentive to pick high value mennigga they already don't. I'm an actual bum and I still fuck 8/10+ girls regularly.
>>543077425How many rupees does your government collect in taxes now? How do you feel they should be better spent?
