Who's the worst promoter amongst the three?
>>19727145Objectively Heyman
>>19727145It's Bischoff. Heyman's only issue was that he was terrible with money
>>19727148Heyman just needed infinite money.By far it is Bishoff. Biggest choke artist of the 20th century regarding pro wrestling. Had the world. Had the name. Had the talent. Had the money. Was in an era of shock jock entertainment and STILL fucked it all up.
>>19727148It's hard to tell cause Heyman was intentionally pocketing money from ECW cause he didn't care if it failed since he already had a job at WWE secured
>>19727170this makes no sense because even if bischoff messed up at the top, he at least got to the top and heyman never did therefore the worst is heyman.
>>19727170>Heyman just needed infinite money.easy to be in the carnie business if you have infinite money to burn and never need to draw a single dime
>>19727451But enough about Tony Khan
>>19727451But Heyman had the Mind, he just didn’t have the money>>19727457Tony has the Money but doesn’t have the Mind.
>>19727469The mind to what, all I said was Tony has infinite money
>>19727378Bishoff just had money and names and no real reason to grow. He got to the top because he had acquired top talent and though jingling big names and celebrities in people’s face was all he needed to do while forgetting to invest in and grow talent.
>>19727469So what you’re saying is Heyman booking for AEW would be the ideal wrestling promotion
>>19727145Delirious
>>19727478He invested everything in Goldberg and it a huge failure and a colossal waste of time.
>>19727151>>19727170>>19727469ECW had alot more problems than just Heyman not having infinite money.Heyman is a better booker than Bischoff, but given the same opportunity as Bischoff, would have he done better? He could have.
>>19727560What do you consider ECW's heyday/peak? Was it with or without Raven, because then he deserves most of the credit, if it's during his time.
>>19727145Vince, Bischoff, and Heyman were all great at their peak but Heyman's objectively the worst booker among them. He could never take ECW beyond being a bingo hall fed with amateur production values, he had future stars like motherfucking Steve Austin on the roster but couldn't really capitalize on them and he let them slip through his fingers, and he literally jewed ECW to death. Bischoff was light years ahead of Heyman, and for 83 weeks, he was even ahead of Vince.
>>19727145a lot of people are talking about booking in here, but being the booker and being the promoter are separate jobs. it's just that all 3 of these men did both of them.thinking of only their skills as promoters and not as bookers, it's probably heyman but bischoff had lower lows (but also higher highs).
>not a single answer being VinceWow this is surreal. This is no longer the /pw/ I know. VDS might just be a thing of the past. Or maybe the world is just healing
>>19727763Vince was a great promoter and even people who hate him should be able to admit as much.He was a middling booker however who at times had to be dragged to success kicking and screaming.
>>19727170>goes out of business
>>19727592I haven't watched enough ECW to say, but I'd think it's the Dreamer/Raven/Sandman shit.>>19727763Vince McMahon is the best wrestling promoter of all time
>>19727763Vince is shit but we are comparing him to two men who shit handling of finances or shit promoting put them out of business.By default, it can’t be Vince.He’s not even the worst Booker of the three as that too would be Bishoff.
>>19727526Yeah actually.
>>19727145The answer is Vince, who only ever really succeeded twice, once by accident of birth and the other mostly against his will, and spent the majority of his career managing the decline from those two heights. People hate the idea that you can fail upwards in life, but Vince is a great example.
>>19727534Goldberg carried that company in 1998. The collapse in 1999 happens a year earlier without him.
Heyman was a much better creative than Bischoff but is the worst promoter.He's a shyster hustler whose operation of ECW ran hand to mouth, but didn't even have enough in his hand at any time. He stiffed everyone on pay, got loans & sugar daddy money from Vince & his parents and STILL went bust to the tune of 8 million, all while ECW was drawing crowds that successor indies could never hope to draw. Because he was a dogshit promoter and businessman who speculated to speculate even more, all on the basis that it wasn't his money at stake anyway provided he took enough of a cut to fund his own lifestyle (easy to do with cash revenues). He never had to think about how to actually market or promote the company beyond its cult image.Did it put out based content and excellent shows? Sure. But this is also the guy who pissed away his TNN deal because they wanted to water the product down- and watered it down himself by half assing the booking & running of the show. He plays the victim with it but TNN did advertise the show he just had no willingness to meet them on any demands, based but retarded when he also didn't have the ability to get a new deal elsewhere.I seriously don't think it can be overstated how bad a businessman Heyman is- he had a strong product with revenue streams & an audience that later indies would have killed for, network TV, videogames, ppv, didn't pay his talent, and he still went bust.His only promoting talent is self promotion, very good at presenting himself as the hard done by genius who got screwed by the rich kids, when he was a rich kid who couldn't keep ECW afloat because he's a chronic seat-of-his-pants bullshitter - a good one, but not one who can promote or run any kind of business.
>>19730743Heyman never wanted the world like Vince or Bischoff, ECW was just him bullshitting and building a cult of personality. He lived at his parents house for all of the 90s and they supported him while not making any money from ECW after he screwed Tod Gordon out of it
>>19730743Bischoff on the other hand was an excellent promoter with very sharp ideas for promotion and marketing - not just WCWs profitability but the mainstream image, the changes of wrestlings image that even if Heyman was more creative at, Bischoff marketed better, the move to live TV. His celebrity matches were dogshit but they got interest. Road Wild and Beach Blast and Spring Breakout were weird ideas and not the most successful shows themselves but they were visually different to anything WWF or early WCW ever did, they gave his WCW a whole different vibe that helped with marketing even if the Road Wild shows were shit for regular fans.What bischoff sucked at was creative. He was only any good with taking and tweaking derivative ideas (nWo, Crow Sting via Scott Hall) or "so simple it just might work" (Sting never talks, Goldberg never loses, etc.). He could book good cliffhangers but he had no idea how to end stories, just endlessly keep the middle going. He was given Bret as the screwed over champion of the rival company coming in while the heel NWO screwed everyone, and his best idea is "Bret does the screwjob to Hogan then joins him" rather than capitalise on an obvious face NWO hunter for the guy called Hitman. He never knew what to do with Raven at all. Even his best bud DDP didn't get the title til after he was cooling off and was turned heel to do it. Bischoff was a great promoter but creatively limited as fuck, and the rest of the team around him were either too old hat or guys booking for their own push, so when he ran out of good ideas to borrow and tweak or simple but effective tricks, the momentum stalled.If you combined the best elements of Bischoff and Heyman you'd have the perfect booker. And the person who's come closest to this was peak Vince.
>>19730802Russo.
>>19727151Anon... Heyman ran the most jewish wrestling fed of all time. Whether it was licensing for music or his own wrestlers, he didn't fucking pay people lmao.
>>19727148came in here to post the same. heyman sold out, while bischoff had WCW sold out from under him. vince is obviously not the jannetty because he won, so that just leaves the man who sold out the entire ECW fandom that made him rich.
>>19727151That's why it's Heyman
>>19727763i don't like vince, but the truth is what it is. vince has been successful as a promoter, even if he had a lot of help from (((them))). heyman has not.
>>19730505Goldberg was arguably the reason the company wasn't able to build up the new talent it needed in order to survive.It's impossible to build multiple talents when you've got one guy who takes up all the air in the company because there's no question that he's going over less established guys.
>>19730743>>19730802good posts anon. reasonable and informed
>>19731457Yeah, I was WCW all the way but Vince was the only one of the three who remained standing when all was said and done.
>>19731036Russo's a wildcard who can either save a promotion or destroy it. He's simultaneously the best and worst.
>>19727457>BUT WHAT ABOUT AEW?????>I HAVE TO TALK AND THINK ABOUT AEW 24/7>I'LL BRING UP AEW UNPROMPTED EVERY THREADrent free and seething
>>19731475When has Russo done anything but completely devastate whatever he's in charge of with his dumbfuck fake shoot angles?
>>19731503AEW sucks.
>>19727145I dont know.
>>19730802>>19730743Great posts
Vince may have ruined wrestling but he made it more mainstream than it's ever been and created a cult of children and disney adults around it so it can't be him.Paul had the least money, clout, and talent to work with and made something that will never be forgotten in wrestling mostly out of pure creativity. Bischoff had one single storyline that he ripped off from Japan
>>19727145Still Tony
>>19731462What are you talking about? Goldberg just did endless squashes against guys like Meng, Jerry Flynn, and Roadblock. He only started feuding with main eventers after he won the belt from Hogan, and those were competitive matches, not squashes.
>>19732523Maybe I didn't communicate what I meant clearly.My point is that it was very difficult to create *other* big stars in the company when Goldberg was on the rise. The other guys they should have been pushing were just food for his push. No one was going to take them seriously after Goldberg squashed them.
>>19727763vince is the most successful wrestling promoter ever and its just inarguable. unless you wanna start comparing foreign markets, but nobody really wants to do that and even then it's probably still vince. there almost certainly will never be someone on his level again. just because he's a shoot BBC sissy slut, you can't take away his achievements.
>>19727177That's what makes him a bad promoter.
>>19727526Probably yeah
>pw finally bowed to VinceBased.
>>19727145Triple Fraud
