I've always wondered why are Americans, particularly Americans on the far-right, so attached to Capitalism even though Capitalism is the source of all their gripes about America's decline? The death of manufacturing, the influx of low-skilled immigrants, the death of affordable housing, the broken as fuck education system, the constant resource wars, the collapse of organized religion, the decline of "family values" in favor of onlyfans bagchasing culture, etc? Like, what is the MAGA utopia supposed to look like besides this? This is literally the peak of neoliberal capitalist ideology. Unrestrained greed abandoning all other values to maximize profits IS Capitalism, so like what the fuck is MAGA even trying to achieve here by complaining about symptoms while cheering on the problem?Immigrants didn't come to America as some Democrat plot to destroy it. They came here because Reagan used cheap Mexican labor to destroy labor unions.The death of manufacturing isn't because China stole our factories, it's because Capitalists decided it would be cheaper to produce your cheap plastic crap in China, and Americans decided they'd rather pay $30 for a Labubu and Funko Pop than $200 for an American-made scale action figure, so that became the new status quo to maintain profitability.Disney didn't decide to ruin the film industry with low-effort slop because of Da Jooz, they did it because paint-by-numbers films maximizes the most return for the least amount of work. American consumers eat it up because the political class has demonized any and all forms of artistic expression and culturally outlawed the education of media literacy in favor of promoting low effort garbage, as that is the most profitable way for Americans to consume.What the fuck are Americans fighting for at this point if they can't acknowledge that Capitalism is evil and inherently socially destructive?
Because though I may not be rich I am somewhat better off than the average poor person. What would happen under communism is that I would lose that and be forced to live as the lowest common denominator while the party bureaucrats because the new fat cats.
>>82601336>What would happen under communism is that I would lose thatDo people actually believe this? No one saw a decline in the standard of living under the USSR. To the contrary, the life expectancy of Russia saw a massive decline after the USSR's collapse that only recovered in recent years. China has seen a massive increase in the standard of living for everyone in the last 20 years. Does the meme about Communists being poor really still persist in 2025?I'm not trying to be rude I just think it seems nonsensical even with a little bit of critical thinking. Communism doesn't mean markets no longer exist. It means markets are under the authority of the state and the state works to control economic growth to maximize value to its citizens rather than letting it go to a few Jewish billionaires.
>>82601386What's going to happen is that I will lose my house and get put into a commie block or simply taken out and shot. I know how you fucks work.
>>82601400>I will lose my houseChina has the highest home ownership rate in the world dude. I'm not saying American Communism would be a 1:1 copy of China, but the only people "coming to take your house" unless you own 5+ houses and fancy yourself a landlord. China only achieved its ridiculously high home ownership rate by heavily restricting the ability of Capitalists to speculate on their housing market and guaranteeing affordable housing through legislation.You simply can't have Capitalism without a broken housing market, because Capitalists are fueled entirely through maximizing gains for minimal work, and real estate is always historically the easiest way to do that. Just collect land and sit on it and charge people money to live on it and you can make way more than anyone working a real job. And you might think "well if everyone could do it then they would" but the reality is giant multinationals like blackrock are pricing out even petty bourgeois boomers from becoming landlords in America. 90% of residential property is going to be owned by a giant corporation by 2040 once the boomers die off.This simply isn't sustainable and I don't know how other young people aren't seeing the alarm bells that the older generation set us up to be slaves after they're gone.
>>82601319the only good thing about the western far right is that they are pro-white. other than that they are a bunch of drooling retards who dont understand anything about the world. its pointless to expect anything from them. they are either schizos, jqers or racist liberals. they think liberal capitalism is brilliant but somehow an evil group (dajoos, communists, leftists, lizard people) started controlling everything and thats why things are bad. their theory of political power is that based tweets and pol posts are going to redpill the normies and then somehow they win, in the meantime just vote republican. the few of them who question capitalism get shot down by libertarians and anti-communist fanatics
>>82601386China is national socialist rn, however.
>>82601319Communism is dead in the water. It's an ossified 20th century movement that requires strong top-down centralized authority to operate, but (since the early 1990s) the trend has been toward increasing decentralization, meaning communisms days are numbered:>Westoid commies/tankies are functionally liberal progressives LARPing as hardcore 20th century revolutionaries.>CCP operates as a monopolistic corporation that prioritizes profits above all else while lording over a hyper capitalist robber baron society (they claim they need to be capitalists first to achieve communism, mmm hmmm).The future ideology that takes down capitalism will be centered around decentralization, hence communism will not be it.
>>82601319Communism is what you have in America. Every form of """crony capitalism""" (a society with jews) is just a form of communism, a.k.a the quickest way to destroy a society
>continent full of white European people like Germans, Swedes, Dutch, Irish, and English and full freedom>they instantly become a superpower>better jew their finances and do taxes+communism instant death
I just can't imagine being in a country without freedom of religion.
>>82601628I can and it is glorious>noo it's totally valid to sacrifice to MolochNo, it's not.
>>82601636sacrificing to molock is murder anon don't try your communist tricks on me I have advanced psycho therapy
>>82601586there's no such thing as national socialist, that's just rightoid larp desu. socialism is by definition an internationalist ideology that requires participation in global markets and mutual respect for trade partners. china itself is also not really "nationalist" in the the same sense as american conservatives would consider. it has tons of ethnic groups and languages all under a single banner.>>82601592>It's an ossified 20th century movement that requires strong top-down centralized authority to operate, but (since the early 1990s) the trend has been toward increasing decentralization, meaning communisms days are numbered:austerity and decentralization is what's dead actually. since the 1990's people have increasingly noticed that the more "liberal" the markets are, the more those markets tend to dominate the state's regulatory apparatuses and fuck over the citizenry. if you interact with gen Z at all you'll notice a strong shift in sympathy towards the Chinese model of strong state regulation of corporations, because corporations regulating the state has failed them massively.>The future ideology that takes down capitalism will be centered around decentralization, hence communism will not be it.Capitalism is already the peak of decentralization. The incoming AI dystopia is all a result of that decentralization. Nowhere has the Anarchist/Libertarian ideal of "decentralized" political systems ever actually worked. It just results in the strongest party taking power and murdering everyone else, then creating a centralized system.>operates as a monopolistic corporation that prioritizes profits above all else while lording over a hyper capitalist robber baron society (they claim they need to be capitalists first to achieve communism, mmm hmmm).that can't be further from the truth desu. I've researched China's system for years and while it has a lot of faults, the CCP regularly rejects profits in favor of maintaining long-term stability.
>>82601628The funny thing is, there aren't any Communist or former Communist states that didn't have freedom of religion. While America was sending Japanese people to camps, the USSR was welcoming Muslims from Chechnya and Afghanistan and providing them political autonomy.Cuba is probably one of the last remaining Soviet strongholds and it is also a deeply religious country full of Catholics. Brazil's current ruling party is openly Socialist and their voter base is heavily religious. It's only really American Protestants that have an issue with Communism. Hell Marx based the name of his ideology, Communism, off of Christian Communes.While America has spent the last 20 years demonizing Muslims and trying to recreate the holocaust against them, China has had good relations with Muslims both in and outside its borders. Communism means religious freedom, in the "free to practice or not practice" sense, while Capitalism just means the wealthiest religion(Christians in America) dominates everyone else.
>>82601718>freedom of religion>heavily censored state-licensed religious servicesPick one and only one. Commies will try to make ridiculous assertions, it's often because they use intentionally deceptive language.
>>82601667>There is no such thing as national socialist.That is some next-level holocaust denial.>mutual respect for trade partnersChina follows a "China first" policy.>china itself is also not really "nationalist">Implying Xi doesn't instigate nat soc levels of nationalistic pride among the Chineseok
>>82601749>Pick one and only one. Commies will try to make ridiculous assertions, it's often because they use intentionally deceptive language.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Render_unto_CaesarDo you not realize that the point of freedom of religion means religion should be uninvolved from the matters of state? If a religious group is actively undermining the interests of the state, why should they be immune to the same laws that apply to everyone else? If Muslims started bombing politicians' houses, don't you think the state should stop that?>>82601754>Implying Xi doesn't instigate nat soc levels of nationalistic pride among the ChineseHe doesn't.https://english.www.gov.cn/news/202509/01/content_WS68b584acc6d0868f4e8f53c8.html>To this end, I wish to propose the Global Governance Initiative (GGI). I look forward to working with all countries for a more just and equitable global governance system and advancing toward a community with a shared future for humanity.>First, we should adhere to sovereign equality. We should maintain that all countries, regardless of size, strength and wealth, are equal participants, decision-makers and beneficiaries in global governance. We should promote greater democracy in international relations and increase the representation and voice of developing countries.In fact Xi's entire foreign policy and legacy within China can be heavily summarized as "focusing on the development of China as a global mediator, not militarily but through diplomacy". He very heavily leans into global cooperation, and regularly talks about the "shared future of humanity" in his speeches, not just focusing on China or Chinese people. The idea that China is some nationalist fascist state is largely just a deflection from western media because they don't want their citizens seeing that the grass may be greener on the other side.note: I am not Chinese, I'm not trying to shill anything to you here, but the disinformation pisses me off.
>>82601824>here's why freedom of religion doesn't actually mean freedom of religionTell it to some braindead leftist, someone with an ass-backward concept of value might buy your bullshit.
>>82601824>the disinformation pisses me offThen stop posting it
>>82601319Op is still a faggot>captcha:HJW2G8
>>82601856>>here's why freedom of religion doesn't actually mean freedom of religionI get that this site is generally very uneducated but these ideas are not new. The idea of "freedom of religion" being a strict separation of church and state comes from the Enlightenment. European philosophers at the time were well aware that unchecked religion just meant authoritarianism, and that the state needed to actively separate itself from religious institutions and beliefs. This is something Locke, Voltaire, etc all identified hundreds of years ago in their criticisms of European government being dominated by the Catholic church. You cannot have "freedom of religion" without also guaranteeing religion isn't involved in politics. If you allow religious institutions to engage in politics you're just setting yourself up for theocracy down the line if any one religion gets too popular.https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66634890Would you argue that France forbidding religious garbs from school is religious oppression? I mean, this is literally "separation of church and state" to an extremely strict degree.
>>82601824Runs anti india propeganda. Runs anti US propegenda. Routinely sails battleships into Taiwan's soverign waters. Xi executing what amounts to the largest military buildup in all of human history.Last (you) from me. Go pump your disinfo in /pol/.
>>82601319Okay, okay, hold those thoughts Before we completely overhaul everything and move the road underneath the car to try and get somewhere, why don't we try: - completely cutting off Israel from the American taxpayer, - making dual citizenship something that disqualifies you from being an American politician, - and making it illegal for politicians to accept bribes ?You know, just a few small little goofy nothings but at least in the right direction. How about it?
>>82601985>Runs anti india propegandaNot even true, you don't need propaganda to make India look bad ranjeesh.>Runs anti US propegenda.Most Chinese people like Americans, they just don't like our government for being exploitative.>Routinely sails battleships into Taiwan's soverign waters.Both Taiwan and China are engaged in a dispute, with both nations claiming they own the entirety of both Taiwan and China. It's not really fair to suggest China is "infringing on Taiwan's sovereign waters" when both parties claim the other is "invading" their sovereign waters that are like...ykno the same fucking waters. This is a dispute that should be left to the people of China and Taiwan, not really my problem or business to weigh in.>Xi executing what amounts to the largest military buildup in all of human history.That's not even close to true. Even with Xi increasing military spending it's only a fraction of America's spending.
>>82601998All good points that should be addressed, but those are really just bandaid solutions that are once again just trying to make excuses for Capitalism functioning as it was designed. US dual citizens invading America's political system, Israel dominating both parties, politicians accepting bribes, all of these issues are because our political system is designed to prioritize the interests of the wealthy over the interests of everyone else. You can't really "fix" this without overhauling the whole system. Even if you banned Israel from American politics it's just a matter of time until another nation uses the Israel strat to buy our government. Even if you banned open bribery it's only a matter of time until the supreme court strikes it down because of Citizens United. I wish reformist ideals were viable, as I like a lot of things about America, but I just don't think we can "fix" things without abandoning the all-or-nothing greed-obsessed culture of Capitalism.We need an entirely new system that is focused on maximizing prosperity for the most people possible instead of maximizing profits for the 1%. Only Communism even attempts to provide this. Every other system, even European "Democratic Socialism" just ends up corrupted by greed. The European system, with widespread access to pensions and universal healthcare, would not be possible if America weren't militarily occupying the entire continent. Stuff like that is something "Democrats" take for granted when they say we can achieve prosperity while still maintaining capitalism. This will never happen, and I'd argue a Communist revolution is more likely than America somehow transitioning into European Social Democracy. It's totally delusional Democrat propaganda honestly.
>>82601319Communism vs capitalism is the same kind of mind prison as left vs right. This is how they keep you trapped and never reaching for the third position.
>>82602109>Even if you banned Israel from American politics it's just a matter of time until another nation uses the Israel strat to buy our government.Before or after we make accepting bribes illegal? This isn't making sense to me Those suggestions were about improving my quality of life, not striving for your specific brand of idealism. You're saying they wouldn't improve my quality of life because...in the future they'd be challenged again?
I don't care anymore. I just want America to fail because if white people can't have it, I don't want anyone to have it. Hope it ends up like South Africa and all your future children live in hell. Honestly. I hate you.
>>82602141the third position is just nazi germany with extra steps. there is no such thing as national socialism. strasserites are so fucking dumb, they got used by hitler and then he had them all killed for being socialists and somehow they STILL think national socialism will work lmfao.>>82602201>Before or after we make accepting bribes illegal? This isn't making sense to meMy point is the law is just a reflection of what the ruling class wants it to be. You can't "make" accepting bribes illegal unless there are loopholes for the Jews and billionaires to continue exploiting the system, like the supreme court. They simply won't let it happen. Like historically Congress has NEVER voted to lower their own salaries, or rejected a salary increase, even in times of economic hardship for the rest of the country. What makes you think they'd vote to ban lobbying, their primary source of enriching themselves? Or that they'd ban Israel, when Israel already controls our entire government and gets to decide all legislation?What I'm saying when I suggest revolution is more likely than social democracy, is that electoralism is generally a one-way street towards increasing liberalism and economic inequality. Once they attain power, the people in power will entrench themselves in a way that is impossible to remove without mass violence(revolution or war). So if we accept that "we can't vote ourselves into banning foreign countries from manipulating our democracy, because they will just manipulate the vote" then the only option left is revolution. And in that case, why settle for anything less than your ideals?>Those suggestions were about improving my quality of life, not striving for your specific brand of idealism.I'm not really being an idealist here, I just want a system that works and creates a foundation for future generations to build on. The idea you can remove bribery from American politics is more idealist to me, desu.
don't worry. Everything that was America will be torn up as it becomes increasingly non-white. See every brown/black post colonial society if you don't believe me. They all failed. They are all shit holes. lol. You lose. With brown, you lose. Whites are in fact not replaceable.
>>82602250>What makes you think they'd voteThis is about us voting actually >Or that they'd ban Israel, when Israel already controls our entire government and gets to decide all legislation?Why do they still need our votes then? Just a show for us?
Capitalism (for all its faults) delivered the best living standards in the history of the world and communism killed hundreds of people through starvation.
>>82602359*hundreds of millionsWhoops
>>82602309>Why do they still need our votes then? Just a show for us?Yes. Political scientists identified this all the way back in the Roman Republic that democracy is just about manufacturing consent, not representation. By using democracy you can fabricate whatever situation you want under the guise of "consent of the governed" like the Iraq War, even if the information given to the public is complete lies. If the powers in charge don't get the outcome they want, they just change the headlines and manufacture a few crises to move the polls in the direction they want. We saw this in realtime with Bernie's 2016 and 2020 runes, especially 2020 when he almost won and the media machine went in overdrive with takes about "banning" him from running because he visited the soviet union one time. Hell even now before the Kirk shit Trump was busy riling up the media over how he'd arrest Zohran Mamdani to prevent a Communist from ever taking power in America. Lmao.Americans are too cocky in the idealism of our government to represent the will of the people. It doesn't, and hardly ever has. Generally speaking American legislation is decided by the biggest donors. Even the few times people get elected to positions of power with the promise of Hope and Change they inevitably get the "either you join Team Israel or we blackball you from politics and use our lobbying spitefully block everything you try to do until you lose reelection" treatment. You can't achieve anything in American politics as it is, which is why I had no faith in Bernie and I have no faith in Zohran. The people in power just control too much of the "levers" that a single figurehead can't do anything meaningful. They just ride it out and spread negative propaganda about you until the American public hates you because they're glued to Reddit and podcasts and will eat up anything Israel promotes.
>>82602389You wouldn't be able to achieve anything quickly, that's for sure. But I don't know about more average people with unrestricted access to the hard hitting news on xitter becoming more disgruntled. It seems like America First is an inevitability.
>>82602446>It seems like America First is an inevitability.I wish America would at least take a moderately nationalist stance just because it would at least nominally benefit me and the people around me. But no, you won't get America First you'll get Israel and India First and you'll like it because it's Trump doing it. At least that's the position on /pol/ these days.They're going to flood the country with rich immigrants and their rich spawn that will murder white women and then flee to Israel to escape prosecution. They'll buy up all the properties in your city and make it unaffordable to live in. They'll send their kids to your university and force them to give lectures in Mandarin and Hindi while raising tuition fees to make it unaffordable for you. They'll replace every skilled middle class job with an AI or an Indian that might as well be a stinkier AI and MAGA will cheer all the way to the unemployment line.It's so fucking sad that Americans will choose this, selling out our country to the highest bidder, rather than supporting eachother with a true "America First" program, all because some racist retards lost a war and refused to shut up about it for nearly 200 years.Literally there's posts in this very thread cheering the death of America just because they'd rather see their children enslaved by jeets and their women raped by a Jewish pedophile than have to live next to a black person. It's insane how self-destructive American politics has become.
Capitalism works, and communism doesn't. It doesn't work whatsoever. To normal people, you sound like a lunatic, might as well be saying "The problem is we don't have a dog monarchy where we're ruled by a dog", it sounds irrelevant. Communist faggots wouldn't suddenly close the borders and make good movies either. None of that follows.
>>82602546>Capitalism works, and communism doesn't. It doesn't work whatsoever.be honest, do you have a high school diploma?
>>82601386China is capitalist. There are hundreds of chinese billionaires.
>>82602559>china gets more capitalist over time>gets richer>communism wonYou are a retard
>>82602491>At least that's the position on /pol/ these days.I don't go on /pol/I know this is what he's currently doing after being voted into office, but where do you think the energy goes from his campaign promises? Do you think Americans are just going to blindly accept Vance? When a campaign promise is walked back, we didn't "choose" that. Touche I'll accept the "fell for it again" mockery but the atmosphere now is way different.I think your worldview is too fundamentally based on the agency of the people having no effect on anything when that's just simply not the kind of country America is. We might have been misled in that direction for all of living memory, so it can seem that way.
>>82601386OP, most on /pol/ would support the chinese system of "state capitalism" or as some might call it national socialism. This guy who is arguing with you> >82601400 would be satisfied under CCP policy.
Bro, you just have to fight to keep America going bro! What is America? >nigger ball>nigger music >nigger clothes >nigger sex >nigger nigger niggerYeah I kinda understand why no one gives a fuck lol
>>82602564That's not what capitalist or communist means tho. Chinese billionaires are servants of the CCP as part of the market vanguard forces. They are allowed to develop industry using market tactics to extract wealth from the West and use that wealth to develop China. They sell you Labubus and then that money goes to the CCP who uses it to build housing for its people. They are still always subordinate to the CCP, and the moment they get out of line they are removed from all economic and political positions and forced to sit in the cuck chair while someone else takes over their company(that is really owned by the Chinese Communist Party).>>82602587>I know this is what he's currently doing after being voted into office, but where do you think the energy goes from his campaign promises? Do you think Americans are just going to blindly accept Vance? When a campaign promise is walked back, we didn't "choose" that. Touche I'll accept the "fell for it again" mockery but the atmosphere now is way different.I think we've repeated this cycle enough times that I don't have the energy to entertain the idea Trump will ever do anything for America First. These are the people he puts in his government: His FBI head is a jeet podcaster with an 18 year old Mossad girlfriend. His DoD head is a Fox News host/neonazi that wants to send more Americans to die for Israel to fulfill the Greater Israel plan. His government is filled with self-declared zionists and many if not most of them are more loyal to Israel than they are to America. These arent political choices he was forced to make, he personally chose these people. He isn't working for America or Americans. He also doesn't see himself as accountable to them, as if he was he wouldn't be doing so much shit to screw over the middle class and bring in more immigrants. I just don't see where MAGAs have this endless faith in Trump to suddenly do a political 180 towards America First when he never governed like that before.
>>82602628>That's not what capitalist or communist means tho. Chinese billionaires are servants of the CCP as part of the market vanguard forces.The anon you are arguing with has an instinctual gut-hatred of communism but subconsciously is socialist and may sympathize with similar forced to CCP China, like NSDAP Germany. A lot of conservatives/rightists are crypto-socialists.Marx was prophetically right when it came to predicting that capitalism would be outmoded by socialism, but I think the modern distinction is almost irrelevant. Rightists will bring about socialism in the exact same way leftists will, both with kill the billionaires, in the one case>le JEWS and GLOBALISTS and their ALLIESand the other, the typical. But I think the distinction you're making is more for fun than practical.
>>82602628With your obsession on MAGAs, surely you have a pulse on what happened to them after the epstein file scandal and as Trump walks back all of his campaign promises?What happens to them then? Do they all get amnesia right at the time Vance runs?
>>82602658Yes. They're already doing that on /pol/ from what I've seen. I'm not sure if that applies to all of America but the hardcore MAGAs are already saying Epstein is a Democrat distraction. I don't know how America can ever recover from this tribalism but the two party system certainly won't offer a solution. Any criticism raised towards Trump gets immediately deflected because "The dems are worse" and any criticism towards the dems gets the same reaction from their followers. What a shithole this country has become.You probably think I'm an idiot for caring what Trump's actual voters think about his policies instead of questioning the mythical xitter centrist, but it's just more interesting following his cultists than following the basic centrist Americans that go along with anything Trump does, because they have a stronger loyalty to The System than they do the actual ideals their country was founded on. It's boring trying to debate someone that thinks we need to send money to Israel because it's "the only Democracy in the middle east, where a guy has remained in power for over 20 years lel". At least MAGAs are honest, they only see giving money to Israel as a means to enact their grand plans of globalized violence. It's more sincere even if hateful. I can see where their priorities lie(menacing and terrorizing brown people) whereas with a centrist their priorities shift with whatever NPR robot they last listened to. I fully believe Redditors and Xisters are even more lobotomized than MAGAs. They're fucking idiots man.
>>82602647>Marx was prophetically right when it came to predicting that capitalism would be outmoded by socialism, but I think the modern distinction is almost irrelevant. Rightists will bring about socialism in the exact same way leftists will, both with kill the billionaires, in the one caseI think this is a bit flawed, because rightoids will never kill the billionaires. Not even non-white billionaires unless it's an existential threat to their power. There's a reason Hitler went after the Strasserists to consolidate his power. He needed the wealthy on his side, and even empty talk of "going after the wealthy" terrified them.The right will use billionaires(or more directly, Jews) as a talking point, criticize "globalism" for its inherent wealth extraction that induces national poverty, etc, but at the end of the day they want all these things because it enables their fantasies of racial divide. There's never any serious attempt by right-wing governments to go after billionaires for their crimes against the economy.That's also why I can't ever fall for the "national socialism" meme. These people aren't serious about economic equality or going after the rich. They just want to use the economy as an excuse to murder their enemies for sleeping with white women, lol.
>>82602810>I think this is a bit flawed, because rightoids will never kill the billionaires.They can and will. Why aren't the CCP communists killing their billionaires? Why isn't the modern western left? There are other elements at play than>If they were going to they would haveHitler did go after many of their rich and a very large amount that weren't loyal to the nation were despoiled and plundered for national interests. The modern right has unanimous hatred of the "billionaires," and only those they think are "le based" like Elon (though very temporarily, as Elon's ingratiation with the right was extremely contentious and built solely on a shared temporary alliance, similar to how the modern progressive or "revolutionary" left allies with billionaire groups against fascism) and the right gladly and immediately turns on those they believe have been compromised.Hitler went after Strasserites because it would lead to the same outcome as the Bolsheviks. Hitler's politics more closely matched Dengist China, and similarly the CCP wouldn't go after their elites. Hitler was ahead of the curve in that respect.>The right will use billionaires(or more directly, Jews) as a talking point, criticize "globalism" for its inherent wealth extraction that induces national poverty, etc, but at the end of the day they want all these things because it enables their fantasies of racial divide. There's never any serious attempt by right-wing governments to go after billionaires for their crimes against the economy.Yes, there have been. Most rightist governments have been motivated by pragmatics, but killing disloyal billionaires (or elite bourgeois) is extremely common on the right. As for the racial politics, you're veering into myopia, which sucks because I assumed you were a cut above typical internet leftists, but it seems you're blinded by typical progressivism.
>>82603298>similarly the CCP wouldn't go after their elitesModern CCP.* I make that distinction, because the early CCP was very much radically Bolshevik in nature.The right doesn't have any interest in a racial divide as you would understand it. For example, Hitler had literally no interest in a nation with brown slaves, or moreover any sort of colonial interests like the (even at the time) Allied powers. (Of course a lot can be said on the pragmatics of German colonial policy but then we're getting into a lot) I think the issue here is that the right really sees the proletariat a little differently.
>>82603325>>82603298Meant to quote leftist OP.
>>82602810>>82603298 (me)>>82603325 (me)>>82603328 (me)As a final note, a lot more can be said, but if your responses are to point to the common conservative (a bourgeois reformer) then the same could be said of the great mass of leftist bourgeois reformers who have more interest in increasing equality through gradual progressive reforms on race, sex, disability, and economics.I guess the only thing you can do is compare them to a racial petit bourgeois element like early American communists, but this has the added effect of, very unfortunately, admitting the great majority of America was uplifted and made bourgeois by capitalism, and that Communist reform in the USA was verg unfortunately a reform of despoiling the rich (almost for no reason) to enrich the blacks, hispanics, women, natives... so on and so forth. This is a really interesting kind of Neo-Marxist critique that we can get in to, of course, the neo-marxists had their own rationale for racial identity politics (which were, surpise! founded by marxists in the USA and maybe France if you like).But I'd rather see what you have to say before going into any details on these topics, and I apologize for my poor formatting, as I am phoneposting rn.
>>82602810Oh, a final manner you might use to argue is that the right represents "capitalism" or "private property," and in that respect you'd be in agreement with certain characters like Bobbio (who solidified what is known as the modern left-right distinction) but that really doesn't mean much. His own distinction was flawed and based on his own bias, and he struggled intensely to categorize the Nazis at all, settling on a very humorous distinction indeed. It's more of a way for leftists to understand or frame themselves and their enemies than to really describe the world or politics as they are; For example, you often hear the "temporarily embarrassed millionaire" quote and the interpretation from redditors that this is how conservative rightists see themselves, but this isn't true at all even at a cursory glance. The majority of conservatives have "country boy can survive" very ruralistic, agrarian, proletarian outlook. IRONICALLY, I'd say the failings of American socialism can be understood to be a racial problem predicted by early Marxists, and no, not the "fault" of white people. This blaming of whites is incidentally the very precise reason socialism was hindered in the USA.
>>82601319>being a far left loonieThese systems of control only benefit a small minority (the people in control). We should have a mix of all systems, but mainly one that holds people truly accountable for when they mess up. Until then, there will be no change for the better. All this talk is doing nothing then dividing people, MY TEAM BETTER THAN YOUR TEAM. We're all on the same team, us Vs the people in charge. That is all it has ever been, and the people in charge know this, that is why we constantly have D&C operations run on us.
>>82601319americans have been propagandized for 70 years to believe that everything bad is communism, and everything good is capitalism. the 50s were americas golden age, so capitalism brings about the 50s. communism brings everything bad, that isnt "the 50s". communism is when you "cant own things", so corporations enshittifying everything and forcing you to pay a subscription instead of owning a physical disc is communism. communism is when poverty because people were poor in the ussr, so whenever you're poor its always the communist democrats fault and not the righteous god fearing GOP who dindu nuffin and couldnt hurt a fly. communism is when you dont have to pay upwards of $10,000 for a hospital visit because freedom aint free or something, NO HANDOUTS. communism is when WOKENESS or something and LE DICTATORSHIP (except our based and redpilled dictator, hes fine because he loves JESUS and hates WOKENESS)
Because 80% of every output is produced by 20% of the population. Only capitalism animates competetive people to work hard because they believe they'll be rewarded. Society enjoys the fruits of these superworkers.In communism, they know their efforts won't be rewarded, and worse, the majority will slack off and live off their work when the fruits get divided by the state. They aren't motivated to be superworkers.
>>82601319Because communist women won't let me sleep with them
>>82601386China has no paid vacations or accessible healthcare. You are talking about life quality increase of mud rolling peasants. For a western person all those countries are a decrease in quality of life. Communism is obviously good for community, but individual within it is always disposable. If your life sucks you are expected to just suck it up. West could develop further because it rejects such notion. Socialism is a different deal. It is already naturally part of most western countries, because all of them have welfare for homeless, jobless and disabled. Something rest of the world doesnt do.
>>82604249Deng Xiaoping knew this and fixed communism.
Holy shit look at all these leftist walls of text. Shills and retards are out in force.
>Why aren't you a communist?>Da Joozopinion discarded
>>82601319>Why aren't you a communist?Labor theory of value is dumb. Historical determinism is pseud bullshit that Marxists accept as an article of faith. Also leftists are all ugly and/or pathetic, so you know they're wrong.
>>82604838>Labor theory of value is dumb.Yes>Historical determinism is pseud bullshit that Marxists accept as an article of faith.Yes>Also leftists are all ugly and/or pathetic, so you know they're wrong.YesBut I want to point out that Marx's historical materialism is interesting in that certain capitalists like Schumpeter have tacitly assented to the kind of inevitability of socialism (in some form) and other (former) communists like Foucalt rejected it. While I haven't finished Capital, Marx seems to be making the argument of inevitability more as a form of rhetoric or value proposition than one from genuine science (which, of course, there is no scientific or rational basis for its inevitability).
>>82601386>Do people actually believe this? No one saw a decline in the standard of living under the USSR.i noticed this often the case with commies and other lefties.They just blatantly lie to your face. Lie can be easily checked but they still lie. Why?What is their thought process? Is it notorioushttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firehose_of_falsehoodI heard so much about?Pic. Russian male life expectancy. Notice anything? Yeah. Graph starts going down during USSR since 1965. Local minimum in 1980, supposedly peak of soviet development. 1980 Olympics and all.Its unprecedented in 20th century phenomenon, life expectancy going down during peace time and no catastrophes. Everywhere on Earth line goes up. In USSR it goes down.How can commies explain this using Marxist theory?
>>82601461China quatly canceled communism in 1980 with start of the Deng Xiaoping reforms.Disbanded kolkhozes, reinstalled rule of kulaks and grain speculation by kulaks. Suggest any part of this in Stalin's USSR and Deng would be facing wall.
Another "notice anything?" graph.
>>82601319Capitalism gives me neetbux.The only socialism I would support is Marxism-Rodgerism.Gov mandated gf or im not fight for your "revolution" lmao
>>82606394>Gov mandated gf or im not fight for your "revolution" lmaoFun fact: in Ancient Athens female prisoners of war were nationalized by state and send to state owned whore houses. These were non profit organizations and charged only enough to cover running expenses. Authors wrote that price of the whore was smallest coin.Greek philosophers highly praised Solon (known in teh entire world as Father of Democracy) for installing this brilliant system.The Democracy is The Best.
>>82606259those figures for japan and russia circa 1946-1948 are lel
>>82601319Why do communists always confuse capitalism and legalism? It's ridiculous. There is literally and functionally no alternative to capitalism.This is how I view it. Congress could come together today and make murder legal in all states and you fucking normalfaggot retards would claim the higher murder rate is the fault of capitalism as if alterior motives to gaining monetary wealth do not exist in reality. Yes communist believe the general concept that the majority of crime is committed purely for economic gain. Again this is why I insist that communists are normalfags. The motives of Eric and Dylan completely baffles them.
>>82601461>home ownership Not communism but also do you really own it if you can't do anything you want with it?
>>82601319>Why aren't you of "political ideology"Cattle mentality
>>82601319>The death of manufacturingCaused by regulations and trade unions, so that making something half a world away and transporting is somehow cheaper than making it locally.>influx of low-skilled immigrantsCaused by the government, not vetting, or even literally shipping people in.>Death of affordable housingCaused by regulations, and government supported corpos. High house costs would make it very profitable to BUILD more. Somehow thats not happening.>Broken as fuck education systemCaused by the government, working as intended, producing slaves.>Constant resource warsThat is the human condition. Even hunter gatherer tribes do that, what are you on about?You are looking at every branch of a government infiltrated by marxists, who brag about being marxists, and somehow you think. "Yeah, all those capitalists are to blame!"You look at wall street bankers who funded the bolshevik revolution and you think: "Dirty capitalists!"You look around you, government manipulating, and destroying everything it touches, and you think: "Government should control everything, ONLY THEN, everything will be fixed!"If you have an ounce of honesty, i would advise you to turn from the edge of the abyss. But Its your choice.
>>82601718The really funny thing here is you're blatantly lying
>>82606524This is the problem with totalizing meta-narratives. It's not actually possible to neatly confine human behavior into economic motives, even if a lot can be described as such. Engels and Marx both distanced themselves later in life from this pseudohistoricism:>while the material mode of existence is the primum agens [first agent] this does not preclude the ideological spheres from reacting upon it in their turn, though with a secondary effect, he cannot possibly have understood the subject he is writing about.>Just as Marx used to say, commenting on the French "Marxists" of the late 70s: "All I know is that I am not a Marxist."kekaroo
>>82606564>Death of affordable housing>Caused by regulations, and government supported corposWrong. Its is caused by fractional reserve banking. In fractional reserve banking price of the housing rises until you pay 35% of you income as mortgage. With cheap credit it means exorbitant house prices.Demand side of the housing market is literally money printer.
i don't think communism worksi think scandinavian socialism and fully funded healthcare will work
>>82601386>No one saw a decline in the standard of living under the USSR.communism took feudal peasants and turned them into industrialized peasantscapitalism took feudal peasants and turned them into vast empires of unlimited wealth and individual quality of life never before seenall we need to do to set the world straight again is kill all current billionaires and then put hard caps on companies going forward
>>82606615>scandinavian socialism Its capitalism with welfare state.
>>82603708There is no such thing as communism. Only power exists. The concept of communism as a system just is not a reality. It's all capitalism, always has been. When communist argue for communism they're actually just arguing against capitalist policy, law and governmental structures and rights.
>>82606633whatever you want to call ityes
>>82606615Communism works everytime, and delivers exactly the same thing without fail.Thats just not what they have on the slogan.
>>82604527>fixed communismSee this is the main issue. Your to into tribal left vs right bullshit to even admit it's no longer communism. This is the equivalent of saying a capitalist county fixed capitalism by giving the means of production to the people. So it's good capitalism now and if you even suggest it's not capitalism I will call you dumb and ignorant of what capitalism really is
>>8260661360% of Americans own their house, no mortgage
>>82606660b-but d-deng xiaoping f-fixed communism...
Fuck off my board paid demon commieANYONE DEPENDING ON GOVERNMENT FOR ANY REAS9N AT ALL HAS NO FREEDOM GTFO
>>8260666840%but your point still stands
>>82606625>communism took feudal peasants and turned them into industrialized peasantsBlatant lies of the commies are outragous. There were no "feudal peasants" in 1917 Russia. Feudal peasants were emancipated in 1861 fifty years prior. Whatever feudalism was its traces were mostly eliminated.90% of RE arable land was in the peasants property in 1917. In fact commies reinstalled feudalism in Russia in 1933. They confiscated peasants lands, put them as serfs into large manors and tied them to these kholhoz manors land by installed institutions of internal passports and residency registration. Soviets peasants received internal passports in 1974 and only then became equal rights citizens with same rights to travel.
>>8260667840% of owner-occupied housing* not 40% of americans, 40% of houses that aren't rentedonly 54% of the total housing units in 2023 were owner-occupied single-family detached homes, or 70 million homes of the total 131 million housing units.meaning 28 million houses are owned in full by the person living there without a mortgagevery far from "60% of americans own their own house"
>>82606671freedom to get raped by banks and an arms industry that can't even hold ukraine or stop some houthis lolif the world stage were a game of Civ, I'd much rather be China than USA. It's just totally obvious at this point that their society is prosperous, while ours is failing. Even the super rich in USA are shitting themselves over the future. AI is such cope. Anyway have fun being free to die in a gutter.
>>82606671>t. pays his taxes in full every year but refuses to receive any benefit back from it because that would be communism obama welfare
>>82606768read>>82601586>China is national socialist rn, however.
>>82606768None of those countries are anywhere near US land who the fuck cares lmao
>>82606784>straight white male receiving benefits from Obama run statelaughs
>>82606790well they describe themselves as communists, and their bank issues credit, rather than a board of the commercial financiers (the Fed). black cat, white cat, as long as it doesn't let a bunch of bankers fuck everything up.sometimes I actually can't believe we outsourced our whole manufacturing sector, and most our tech tree advantages to China because those same financiers wanted ez money. a couple generations later, the whole thing is fucked. $USD reserve currency status won't last forever, and then it will be obvious to all which form of governance is better: socialism for bankers (weak govt.) vs socialism for the people (strong govt.)
>>82606853>well they describe themselves as communists,Guess why nobody wants to call themselves fascists.
>>82601319I'm not saying for or against, but America will definitely flip communist within the next 100 years. Simply existing is becoming too expensive for more and more people and nothing is being done at all to avert this economic trajectory. You're going to have a lot of angry and displaced citizens with nothing to left to lose calling for political revolution. Me personally I would recommend moving to a different country to avoid the turmoil and chaos which in my opinion seems to be intentionally caused by the powers that be.
