Any opinions on anti Natalism?
Just because something is retarded it doesn't mean it's wrong. That's all I have to say.
>>82930824They're such losers it's almost sad
>>82930824>Any opinions on anti Natalism?It's really really dumb.
>>82930824peak reddit and terminally-online mental cases
>>82930824If you do not want to have kids, no problem. I think its retarded to mold your entire personality around that though.
>>82930824I identify as an antinatalist and love the philosophy but I also think most antinatalists are bitter retards that don't fully understand the concept as well as they should. There are very strong logical arguments in favor of it but the movement largely consists of edgelord reddit teens who are mad at their moms for making them get off the computer after 6 hours to come eat dinner. It's like atheism, I'm an atheist but you'd never hear me actually say I'm an atheist or else people would think I'm an Atheist.
>>82930874Basing your entire personality around it+shitting on people who do have kids
Just another self-defeating self-hating White ideology.
>>82930855>im gonna have kids and force them to suffer out of my own selfishly desires Your evil retarded person. Why bring more humans into this hell
I'm not having kids because I don't want them, making a movement over it is dumb. Like yeah I see the point of the voluntary human extinction thing but it's not ever going to happen through logic, people are too stupid to see it as anything other than an insult to them if they do want kids. Just, you know, try to live your life the way you want to live it.
>>82930899^ This right here is the worst and unfortunately most abundant type of antinatalist.
I got a vasectomy to ensure I won't have children, yet I don't see myself as an anti-natalist or agree with their radical views.It's true that life is suffering but there are beautiful things in life that can justify experiencing it. Anti-natalists take it too far with their doomposting.
>>82930899I'm going to create children to enjoy life because I've enjoyed life and I know I can offer my children even better opportunities than I've had, and with effort we can make an even better life for the next generation, who can make a better life for the generation after that, who can make a better life for the generation after that, and so on. Your shitty experience isn't universal and is an absolute skill issue.
>>82930824anti-natalism/child free is a life denying cult.These are the same people who cheer on abortions of down syndrome babies and euthanasia in Canada, completely fucking evil Satan-worshipping degenerates, ironically they are the ones who deserve death lolHumans are the only species that voluntarily don't reproduce. If scientists found an animal, plant or fungus which refused to reproduce they would see it as aberrant. Anti-natalists literally want humans to go extinct because muh suffering when every other life form suffers. If any group of people deserves to be exterminated its these degenerate freaks.
>>82930899because life isn't hell anon, that is a lie of the Devil. We are meant to suffer, its part of the human condition. But life is worth it DESPITE suffering, that is why efforts to reduce suffering are futile.
>>82930942I'm child-free and I don't cheer on abortions. Stop generalizing
>>82930824Life is trapped in existance. A true anti-natalist would support human life, since it's the best possible shot we have at perminant extinction or complete technological negation of cause and effect.Do you know how long nature has existed and tortured creatures? By destroying human life you prolong the suffering.
>>82930967>By destroying human life you prolong the suffering.By removing human life you prevent the suffering.
>>82930933>because I've enjoyed life that's more about you than them. they may feel differently as they are independent from you.>and I know I can offer my children even better opportunities than I've hadno, you literally do not know that lmao
>>82930933>enjoy life Your not actually enjoying anything your an animal who's brain uses chemicals to guide it's behavior. You enjoy it cause social and physiological factors have made you wanna enjoy it. >who can make a better life for the generation after that, who can make a better life for the generation after that, and so on.For what purpose or goal? Your just continuing a billion year long dna replication mechanism that has no goal. >>82930942> want humans to go extinct because muh suffering when every other life form suffers. Muh humans are so special why should we not continue this hellish life for eons until we inevitably wipe ourselves out. If you do have kids and they enjoy it they did it by making others suffer from animals to humans your enjoyment is at cost of someone else's suffering.
>>82930982>>82930982>>82930982don't add a fucking "lmao" as if you are laughing at that anon, you're in no position to.
>>82930824I'm not an anti-natalist but I absolutely believe that there should be some kind of mandatory test to check whether you're fit to be a parent or not, and also to verify that you have the necessary resources to provide them with a decent life.
When I realised my anti-natalism views came from being MSTOW, I quickly dropped them. I'm still bitter about being locked out of being able to have a family, but I'm not gonna fall into sour grapes mentality
I am not an anti natalist but having kids is just not worth the trouble. That's my whole take.
>>82930824I can see it- there's too many ppl on the planet consuming resources which wreak havoc on it and its ecosystems.
>>82930990don't police the way I speak lol lmao roftlolmfao haha
>>82931014you are not creating a safe space or a safe environment for this kind of dialogue we're having right now. Leave.
>>82930824Retards and defective people shouldn't reproduce and shit up the world even more than they already have. Just look at foids displaying their tard babies on social media asking for gibs. I don't know how people don't feel a twinge of guilt for passing on inferior genes and dirtying up the human raceI don't understand why this would ever be a controversial opinion.
>>82930824same answer as always, it's not my problem
>>82931009weak. my antinatalism views came from listening to Deathconsciousness one too many times and reading the little booklet that came with it obsessively
>>82930954>meant to suffer, its part of the human condition. But life is worth it DESPITE suffering, If life is worth suffering go to child cancer hospital and tell that to parents you selfish fuck. Just world fallacy believer >>82930955You should they are escaping miserable existence they would have >>82931004Who gets to determine that? Will we choose parents who best raise most compliant workers and citizens >>82931027No all human existence is unethical
>>82931024make me lmao
>>82930824I'm not cruel enough to put anyone through this bullshit. Also I refuse to wageslave dealing with toxic insufferable retards just to pay for the life of some asshole that'll resent me and hate their life anyways despite my massive investment of time and effort. Only reason poor people have children is irresponsibility, immaturity and negligence. I'm atleast a decent enough person to spare anybody else going through what I've been through.
>>82930824childfree since 13, antinatalist since 17. Existence is pain. You just make slaves for mr. shlomo. This world is shit.
>>82931030Based album. Giles Corey is pretty good too. Anyway, I don't think it's morally right for me to give birth to an incel
Something about antinatalism is so strange because it's an endlessly fascinating thing to read about but when you try talking about it you will exclusively encounter the dumbest people you've ever met in your life.
>>82931041I just reported your toxic ass to the moderation team. Enjoy your b&
>>82931058ok enjoy your ban for false reporting + announcing your own reports, both of which are against the rules lmao
>>82931068I didn't false report. Your behavior is high problematic and creates an unsafe environment.
This thread is botted to hell and back wtf
>>82931077bottled? What do you mean by those words, d-desu? What does bottled mean in this scenario?
>>82931033>Who gets to determine that?The state. If you're too poor or have a serious history of mental illness or criminal behavior you should be banned from having children.
>>82931074literally all I did was finish a sentence with "lmao" lmao. the mods are going to see that as superfluous reporting an issue a warn to you for doing that, and announcing your own report likely gets you a 24h suspension. lmao
>>82930982>they may feel differently as they are independent from you.They are free to leave existence if they find it unsatisfying. I'd be ashamed if they hung around stinking up other peoples' experience out of spite.>>82930985>Your not actually enjoying anything your an animal who's brain uses chemicals to guide it's behavior. The same could be said of suffering.>For what purpose or goal? Your just continuing a billion year long dna replication mechanismThat's the goal and it's a good one. Conscious beings have agency that unconscious matter does not. Spreading consciousness across the universe spreads agency and allows for the appreciation and refinement of beauty.Antinatalists have no sense of the poetry of existence. It's actually quite sad.
>>82931086You were publicly ridiculing an anon by mocking him, that's hostility and has no place on this board. We're inclusive and diverse here, your bullying is unnecessary. You deserve the report. You earned the report.
>>82931033The time those parents got to spend with their child were worth it.If it wasn't worth it, why not just euthanise children with terminal cancer? If extreme suffering makes a person unworthy of life, why not just immediatly kill everyone in that situation? Because good always defeats evil. Those parents will be reunited with their children, when all of mankind and nature will be reconciled after the coming of the Great God.
>>82931027That's eugenics, not antinatalism
>>82931068>>82931074>>82931074>>82931074>>82931086Holy fuck, this conversation reminds me of old facebook comments...
>>82931097>Antinatalists have no sense of the poetry of existence.You're an abused individual who finds sick Beauty in this hell instead of calling iu what it is.
>>82931030>my philosophical views came from musicTeenager hours
>>82931084Do you know the future? Lots of mentally ill people have done good in the world. If you had the choice Kurt Cobain, Robin Williams, and countless others great and small would have been killed before birth and prevented from coming into being. Your demonic lies may triumph in the world, but the LORD will prevail in the end, just you wait.
>>82931099*bullies you harder* lmao
>>82931129Don't you see that having children isn't worth the trouble though? Just think about all the work you put your parents through, how exhausting it was, how they'll never have that time and energy and youth back
>>82931125clearly you haven't heard Earthmover
>>82931099>You were publicly ridiculing an anon by mocking him, that's hostility and has no place on this board.
>>82931138I just reported you again this time for homophobia which is very triggering to me (because I have social anxiety and PTSD) and I have gay friends. You should stop being so bigoted and respect other people. You have no place in this modern, accepting and inclusive society.
>>82931129>Do you know the future?No but I know the past. It's just mitigating risk. Growing up as a kid in a dirt poor or abusive family is an actual nightmare that children should be spared from.
>>82931103>The time those parents got to spend with their child were worth it.Why?
>>82931148>he didn't give his parents more joy than they missed out onYet another skill issue.
>>82931179Being Natalia's requires free will to be a thingSo you believe in free will?
>>82930985 Yes humans make other life forms suffer, because we are imperfect: We are inclined towards sin: "I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do - this I keep on doing" We have caused harm to other beings, humans, animals plants, fungi, and other more primordial beings.Neither we nor them were created to suffer; we are meant for something else. "The wolf will live with the lamb, the leopard will lie down with the goat,the calf and the lion and the yearling together; and a little child will lead them."
>>82930824Most people have no business perpetuating their retarded genetics so I'm all for it.>>82930874>I think its retarded to mold your entire personality around that thoughYeah, thats annoying. I used to know a chick who would shout about it over and over as if anyone gave a fuck and it came across as really self-important. A lot of people are just looking for something to say, I guess. I don't like the emo retards who love anti-natalism because "life is sufferin mannn" either. It just makes sense from an environmental viewpoint.
>>82931224All humans anon or all life too
>>82931160I mean, trolling does belong on/b/.
>>82931173Because for a while they got to experience the joy that other parents did. That joy was ruined by illness, but it was no less real for it.Imagine telling the parents of a child who died of an illness that their kid would've been better off dead. Could you do that?
>>82931115I think you can have both. Most people don't deserve to have their genes passed on anyway. Why provide meat to the meat grinder that is society? Just opt out of having kids so we can clean the gene pool and eliminate the rat race of society. Kill 2 birds with one stone.
>>82931162ok you satirical-ass faggot
>>82931169I'm sorry that you had to experience that.Your parents failed you, but you are still loved. There is something beyond the physical world. We do not die, but are reborn. The nightmare you went through will be but a distant memory when the LORD welcomes you to his eternal Kindgom
>>82931191>So you believe in free will?Of course, I'm not a loser who needs to cope about my poor choices in life.
>>82930824I hate kids and will never have any and I think people who have kids without being very rich are extreme brainlets.But I'm not going to stop brainlets from doing what they want, because that is a futile exercise. It would be like banning religion.Antinatalists are right, but that's about it. The vast majority of the population isn't going to think that deeply and there's nothing that can be done to stop our march into the final destruction of our planet through breeding and the resulting consumerism and pollution.
>>82931242That's due to brain chemicals you could get a parent to kill their parents by wiring a stimulator and have them gleefully kill their own kids. Emotions are way evolution designed a way to het animals to cooperate instead of leaving their offspring behind.
>>82931244>Just opt out of having kids so we can clean the gene poolMy genes are fine so this doesn't change my plans.
>>82931265You believe in free will cause you think your success is due to some magic will that makes you innately superior to rest of us.
>>82931280>science fiction>in literatureIt is fake shit invented by satanic atheists. Even if it was real, it would just be another evil corruption of God's creation. Serial killers torture their victims into participating in the sadistic crimes they commit. This is no different.
>>82931303>Serial killers torture their victims into participating in the sadistic crimes they commit. This is no different.They find same joy a parent does helping their child. So we're just slaves to these chemicals and societal structures that program us into what ever role society deems right or maybe we become defective. See how we're just wires and gears under the skin a biological machine through delusion think it's life has meaning. Plus brain stimulation has been done on humans in past but due to ethical dilemmas lot of papers are sealed
>>82931336what serial killers feel is completely different from joy. They feel the same thing normal people do when giving into an impulse they know is wrong, like drugs/alcohol/porn. Joy is completely different. It is when you feel happy, and know that you should. No guilt, regret or shame, nothing but pure joy.
>>82931292So what? Prove me wrong.
>>82931280>owning a car is pointless because it can get hijacked
>>82931395>car is nothing more metal clankerI don't add values or narratives to it except understand its utility.>>82931366>>82931366Joy is what society deems acceptable pleasures so if society deemed human sacrifices okay then people would joyfully rip peoples heart out in front of public. >>82931372Who's agent? Who brings up choices you choose? Where do you get your ideas from? Actually ask yourself why you do stuff
>reddit gradient
>>82930824Have them turn both to the viewer and say "...for white people!" in unison and then jump to click their heels together then lock arms and dance in a circle while circus music plays in the background
>>82931553I'm Jewish and I don't think we should have kids either. Why make it race thing :(
>>82931565I didn't even bring up Jews
>>82931565send pic of nose if it's true
>>82930824It's a self solving issue if you really think about it
>>82931831Smart people don't want kids
>>82930824It doesn't matter. Very juvinile concerns.
>>82930824I don't want to have kids.Just going to enjoy sweet sex with my over 6ft tall red haired wife who is barren, has prominent front teeth, and a prominent clavicle.We'll create things together such as videogames and art. No kids here though. We have kids up in Heaven already that we made together.
>>82932057What about white race? Don't you care
>>82932106I'm very much detached from the Earth. I just want to make some games here , indulge with my wife and then both of us go back home together.
>>82930824>existence is unethicalKys
>>82930824i'm not having a child in a world in which i am being monitored, illegally surveilled, electronically harassed, held back by government entities, illegally harassed and tested on. that is all.
>>82932150The only moral way for a conscious being to exist, is as a God of his or her own Reality.
I just don't think I am financially motivated enough to provide a good family life.
im antinatalist just because i dont like people and i think less of them walking around would be an improvement
>>82930942Pandas you jerk off.
>>82930824the only way i'm having a kid is if i can CRISPR him/her to be perfect genetics according to societies preference and also if i have a million dollars to give them when they reach 24 yo
>>82932166So the government has succeeded in wiping out your family.
>>82932221perhaps. i don't really care as long as it means that no one else is born into this involuntary program since birth. if they want results they can torture someone else, not another unwitting victim from a lineage built on trauma. it ENDS with me.
>>82930933>Your shitty experience isn't universal and is an absolute skill issueAmerimutt detected. Meritocracy is only a concept in your dystopian corporate shithole.
>>82930824Should a knife not be grinded against a stone if it means it'll become sharper?I get that there's a lot of unnecessary suffering out there, but I'm glad I'm alive despite all the friction I've experienced, and better for it.
>>82932301Why are you glad?
>>82930824the easiest way to debunk an antinatalist is to tell them to kill themselves - clearly life isn't that bad then since they want to continue to live it
>>82932324Self preservation instincts go brrrrrrr
>>82932308Because I get to experience, feel, and think.All those things might be painful at times, but being able to do them at all is a privilege many don't have anymore.
>>82932324okay, but an anti-natalist isn't staying alive because of philosophically betraying themselves, when they can acknowledge the truth of something intellectually. much like how you can be nihilistic/buddhist without giving up on everything and just letting yourself rot since nothing matters
>>82930824Do you like to be here? If no, you understand why I wouldn't wish that upon a child. If yes, you're either a psychopath or an idiot
>>82932344>Because I get to experience, feel, and think. All those things might be painful at times, but being able to do them at all is a privilege many don't have anymore.Is a privilege cause ur brain sends happy chemicals when you do. No one wants to experience prison or work at a dead end job. Lot of experiences out there that you would never want. >>82932384These people are too full of themselves or use some spiritual new voodoo shit to explain why life is worth living.
>>82932396True, they try to make an extremely selfish decision come off as a moral virtue. I pity their child already
>>82932241What stops you leaving the country and having a family (I did this for reasons you have described)
>>82932414Ask them why and they'll use their emotions to explain why forcing existence on someone else is totally okay. You could feel just as satisfied if I stimulated same part of brain that gives you joy when having kids your a meat brain driven by evolutionary designed urges to make it likely you pass on your genes. That's all your human body is designed for not some noble truth or virtue
>>82930824>existence is unethical You should kill yourself NOW!
>>82932396I draw a line between surviving and living.When you go to a job you hate, you're surviving. But most people alive right now try to find something to live for, something that makes surviving worth the effort.The systems we take for granted aren't really designed for that though, more so they're designed to keep the many in a state of constant survival to allow the few to live, which is why nihilism is so common, and consequently, antinatalism as well.To say the only solution to minimizing suffering is to end all life, I would say is missing the forest for the trees. It's a kind of "nothing can change" mentality which just isn't very realistic.
>>82932445because i don't want to have a family anyway, nor do i have the desire to go to a different country, as the level of harassment i'm receiving indicates that it would continue no matter where i am, and moving away from everything and everyone i know (and making myself even more vulnerable for no reason for a goal i don't even want -- as i do not want children) will be the worst decision to make and possibly have unreconcilable consequences after the fact (if they forced me staying there, as they don't let me get a job anyway. imagine moving and they don't let me get a job there either. i would literally be homeless)
>>82930824I think poor people who can't afford to give their kids a good life and people with genetic issues having kids is immoral, but not full blown anti natalism. Pro natalists are worse than anti natalists though, they're genuinely deranged in the extent they want to go to force people to have kids. Forcing people to have kids just ends with loads of unwanted neglected kids who mostly just turn into criminals who destabilise society.
>>82932568>But most people alive right now try to find something to live for, something that makes surviving worth the effort.Who or what decides what activity makes life worth living
>>82932717Eugenics is essentially let's make evolution mspOnto our society to better improve but that society was created by faulty humans in first place.
>>82932722Community makes life worth living. The human brain is designed to lean on others for support to deal with stress.When people are alienated (which is an extremely prevalant issue in our society) and have no outlet for stress, they try to find communities or substitutes for community.Example: r9k
>>82932680Yeah I question your original reasoning then and I'll take you at your word.>wouldn't want them anyway.It's got nothing to do with an evil government (which is a real issue) and everything to do with being dysgenic.I've never met an antinatalist that wasn't seriously mentally ill.
>>82930824the very concept of "ethics" is retarded, there's no objective arguments backing either, if life is meaningless, then the absence of life is as well, a life lived means the same as a life that never happened
>>82930933blood lineages corrode over time and branch off into obscure degeneracy and the tradition that you pass on slowly becomes distorted. Your once great bloodline will produce goycattle and slaves if it doesnt begin with your child or grand children already. ill die without kids so there is nothing to worry about, but you on the other hand will eventually fall into constant dissapointment as you are forced to see what your lineage has resulted in.
>>82930824Most people shouldn't be breeding. Most people don't know how to effectively raise children.
>>82930824>belief I agree with = chad, belief I disagree with = soijak
>>82930981You can't. Human life would persist. And if we extinguished human life, another would form.
>>82932799Nihilist are easily the most retarded group. If I were to go to your house and tongue your cat's ass you would be upset- Hence you inherently have values within 'meaningless' lifeIt's like you figured out the foundation to having opinions then stopped thinking
>>82930824Bunch of crybabies that got disappointed with things not going their way in life, wanting to put everyone in the same cradle as them. kek, and likely for stupid reasons too, like being dumped or their political side losing
>>82933671we must continue everything because mesningless is too devastating for my mental healthorino!
>>82933854Build a nihilistic defence against letting me shoot you in the head.
How come thirdies that live in objectively worse conditions breed like crazy? Palestinians literally chain-breed the instant they reach sexual maturity even though they're in constant starvation and stunted development and are palestinian. It's always some fucking american whining about life
>>82930824neither side is true. life is suffering. end of, regardless of whether you have kids. the only reason you "should" have them is to help do your part to keep the species going but this is not mandatory. you wont die if you dont have kids. no one is forcing you to at gun point. do it if you want. simple as>but SHOULD I?i dont fucking know. do i look like your mom? figure it out on your own
>>82933897poor access to birth control + poor sex education + religious incentive + child labour + the human desire to want them regardless of living condition + realisation that children are only inconvenient, not expensive
antinatalism is a worthless, defeatist cult that leads nowhere. They are cowards who do not even sincerely believe in their own drivel, they simply cannot stand to see other people succeed and enjoy life and so try to invalidate everything on an absurd premise that only somebody who has been utterly defeated by life would ever presuppose is true. There is no point in arguing with antinatalists because their position is fundamentally irrational and a coping mechanism for failure.
>>82930899>reddit spacing>antinatalist>the projectiondamn, this post really has it all!
>>82930855pretty much thisthey pretend they do if for moralsbut really its just irresponseable, childish people that never really grew up or faced any challenge.
>>82933922>poor sex educationI can only imagine this being a factor for people who literally don't know what sex is and can't ask, like africans who lived exclusively in a band of 5 people or so
>>82930824on an individual level:>bro just kill yourself if you don't like it.on a society wide level:>nah fuck off, objective morality doesn't exist anyways, it is natural to strive for any species to strive for preservation and growth of their species, some more or less conciously or instinct driven than others.
>>82934718>strive for preservation and growth of their species,Why?
>>82932786>human brain is designed to lean on others for support to deal with stress.Human society can also cause stress to point you kill your self
>>82930824Jesus would shut this whole thing down
>BUH UR BEIN UNETHICAL BY CREATING CHILDR-ACK!
>>82932722Why do you assume it needs to be made worthwhile? I see that as the default.
>>82932856My bloodline will be scattered among the stars. I'm sure there will be both disappointment and glory. You fear the former too much to claim the latter. Reconsider the fight.
>>82935097the irony of this being an ai image lol. i do not care if people have children, i just think its unethical to have one so i wont myself. it is other peoples choice to make the world worse and youll be the one suffering in the end
>>82930824It is the final test and stage of human evolution, humanity can only truly progress when we are created by genuine love and responsibility which most of us arent. I believe leftist and liberals in general are the more evolved form of humans who are outnumbered by conservative monkeybrains. The great test is for the evolved liberal humans to enlighten conservatives to the next stage but it may not be possible
>>82932204https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/2rmf6h/comment/cnhjokr/
>>82933897is this supposed to convince me to breed?
>>82930985>Your not actually enjoying anything>You enjoy it causei guarantee you're insufferable and nobody likes you
>>82933897Because they're massive retards, and retards act impulsively without thinking about the future consequences.
>/r9k/ of all places circlejerking the entire thread about how having kids is so necessary and LE BASEDThen go have kids then, what are you all doing here?
>>82930824I think that their ideology can be unironically refuted by telling them to kill themselves. The arguments I've heard for antinatalism are as follows:1. Why bring children into a world where they will suffer?This is kind of a dumb point, as i'd say for many people the amount of joy they feel is greater than the suffering. We also often bring children into the world out of a belief that it will make their future conditions BETTER. Also, the natural conclusion of this is that all beings capable of feeling suffering should be exterminated, which in my opinion is quite absurd. I would argue that bringing a child into the world KNOWING they will experience immense suffering is immoral, but this is difficult to know assuming the child has no obvious genetic defects. Also, once the child is grown up, it can simply kill itself, thereby ending it's suffering. 2. Children do not consent to being bornA zygote is not sentient and therefore is more like an object that can potentially be a person than an actual person. Since the rights of people who are currently alive trump that of potential people, I see no reason why having a child is immoral. If the child later decides that life is not worth living, they can simply commit suicide.It's quite an absurd and defeatist philosophy, and I can't imagine I'd ever be happy if i believed that the ultimate end of life is suffering. These people hold my suicidal thoughts as their entire belief system, which I think is quite depressing.
>>82936083I'm sitting next to my wife, who I plan to knock up. They don't check your v-card on entry to this board.
>>82930824Antinatalisn is correct but it's foolish to assume suffering will end with the extinction of humanity. Plenty of species today are close to human-level intelligence and awareness. If there aren't already animals that suffer, there will be sooner or later. Now factor in every planet with life in the universe and ending suffering is such an astronomical task that it would be impossible without also destroying all of existence. Antinatalism in one species on one planet is a start, though.
>>82936103They are like pathetic cartoon villains who are le misunderstood good guys(in their own mind). Look at this >>82936110 tool. >all suffering must be eliminated so we must kill everything
>>82936138It is almost a "Misguided cartoon villain" type of ideology. It is often born out of dissatisfaction with life or society along with misanthropy. I think so many fall into it because it justifies misanthropy/hopelessness AND is technically logically sound in certain moral frameworks (although it is unsound in practice). I think it is almost funny that humans in their intelligence have found a way to justify self-annihilation, something even animals know is foolish.
>>82936110>Antinatalism in one species on one planet is a start, thoughIs it, though? That just makes room for other species to arise. There's also no guarantee that any other species in the universe is capable of recognizing the ethical issues with existence. Clearly the only ethical path for humanity is continued development until we're capable of building a universe-destroying machine.
>>82933897>How come thirdies that live in objectively worse conditions breed like crazy?In poor areas the only source of joy comes from other people. Large families means more potential earners for the household, more people to hang out with, babies make people happy too. There's a lot of hardship to breeding but when there's nothing else to live for people will breed a lot. Birth rates are plummeting in first world areas because there's too much entertainment. Videogames, streaming, even just doomscrolling, people would rather engage with those things instead of having children because it's hard to raise children. A lot of third world areas are also experiencing a sharp decline in birth rates, likely because they've gotten their hands on phones and the internet.I don't think this is reversible. Humanity has gotten too comfy.
>>82936106Your bringing another being into this world and cause a chain effect of suffering that might go on forever just so you can feel good. Down chain they'll kill one another , rape , hurt and bring pain onto themselves. Can you even understand the consequences of what you might be doing by submitting to that impulse
>>82930824They literally intellectualized themselves out of genepool kek
I only have two kids and feel guilty about it. Like I feel like if I can make more, I should. I'm denying a potential life its existence. But the newborn days drove me suicidal both times. And pregnancy is super rough on my wife...
>>82930824If you really didn't think life was worth living, you'd kill yourself. I'm not even trolling.It takes a special kind of egoism to believe that you should get to decide for others whether or not life is worth living, however.
>>82936110>Antinatalisn is correctno it isnt. thinking you know more than life itself is so moronic. you're just a depressed loser and thats why you think ending life is correct. such a fucking egotistical moron cant believe people think life shouldnt exist lmao. worthless fools.
>>82936486>cause a chain effect of suffering that might go on foreverIf any link in the chain feels like not continuing, they're perfectly welcome to break the chain. My life has been a good time, and I want to give someone a chance at an existence that may be even better than mine.
>>82937075Why not adopt then? If you wish to give someone else an option of a better life why not adopt thousands of kids in foster home
>>82930824Antinatalists this is literally your mindset.You might think your beliefs come from a righteous place in order to stop suffering, but the truth is you've created a death cult.
>>82937129they're not a deathcult they're just pathetic low T whites who have been brainwashed by jews into abandoning the future of their race
>>82937092Because some of the primary reasons for my success are genetic factors.
>>82936486>that might go on foreverass opposed to someone else having kids in their place?you're all talking bollocks about some abstract issue you have no control of
>>82931050Shalom, Rabi. Jews revel at the idea of manipulating the altruism of good people to have them self destruct. In the end only sociopaths and hordes of morons will roam the world. Suffering in the truest sense for eons until the Sun extinguishes all life.
>>82931050>childfree since 13I'd be worried if you weren't. Is that an AI post or what?
>>82937259I think he meant he decided he would never have kids in the future when he was 13
>>82937215Generic factors that are designed to do what? >>82937223Why are you making this competition? Are you gonna have millions suffer so that you can one up someone else? If everyone was competing on how much poop they found eat why would you try to insert yourself into the game.
>>82930824Breeders kinda just fucking disgust me.
>>82937271>Why are you making this competition?what are you talking about?assuming I can even get pussy even if I didn't have any kids, someone else would have them and the result would be exactly the sameredundant, the whole anti-natalism shit is just an autistic way of feeling moral superiority
>>82937286now I want to breed you xD
I don't like this world and don't want to bring another person like me into it. But at the same time, I can only make choices for myself. Other people like this world and it's not fair to decide what they should or shouldn't do.
>Israel is the only OECD nation with 2.99 birthrateThis is how I know antinatalism is simply a Jewish trick pushed onto goyim only
>>82937379I think I'd kill myself if either gender actually tried to touch me
>>82930824It's gay and cringe. Just say 'I'm selfish and hate kids' instead of crafting a philosophy out of it to validate yourself, I respect childless people more if they are honest about it.
>>82937259no. I had to take care of my little sister. I got so sick of her. I remember at that age googling, "are there people who don't have kids?" and I ended up on a childfree forum. That was in 2008, people used forums.
>>82937451Give me one single reason to want to bring another human into existence
>>82938547Letting someone inherit your wealth. Or having someone to take care of you when you're old.Anyway, do you have that choice even? I'm not that anon
>>82937889>childfree as some movement of people who find kids ideologically wrong instead of just people who don't have themthat newspeak terminology is getting on my nerves
>>82938584So just selfish reasons then.
>>82938772Probably? What about it then?
>>82938778Natalists will tell me I'm the selfish one.
>>82938783That sucks man, but what are the conclusions of that?
>>82938547Wanting to counterweight all the children who will be raised by bad parents and be net drains on society. Put another way, I feel a responsibility to ensure at least a few people in the next generation will be good and well-educated, and the most direct way I can do that is raise kids of my own.
>>82938797>the next generation will be good and well-educated>and the most direct way I can do that is raise kids of my ownwould be nice if it was that simple
>>82938594people who dont want kids. for whatever reason. it was always like that.
>>82938819>people who dont want kidswell, referring to a 13-yr old as such is rather confusingas confusing as a grade-schooler declaring he's not going to invest into the stock market
>>82930942Why the FUCK would you be happy about a downie being born?
>>82938789They're a buncha coping crabs who are full of shit.
>>82938856Now that the moral superiority over some loosely specified group is assured, can you go back to talk about having or not having kids?Why not?
>>82938797So the potential of some nebulous societal good is worth all risks and suffering involved with existence? I don't see it. I don't want to be responsible for whatever goes wrong.
>nebulous societal good>all risks and suffering involved with existenceall of these in the same sentence
>>82930824Theres really no moralfagging nature. Either reproduce yourself or others will it hardly matters.
>>82938868Again, why? Existence is not enjoyable and ultimately a losing game. Why would I wanna drag someone into that.Moreover I barely have the energy and patience dealing with kids even temporarily. I'm supposed to dedicate two decades of my life doing it because...? No thanks
>>82938894Do you need to hold some coherent anti-natalism philosophy about ultimate suffering o algo, just to decide it's not worth it to have kids in your particular circumstances?
>>82938547You don't need a reason to have kids, if you don't want it that's fine. Just don't right a 3000 word book about it and endlessly proselytizing it. It's gay and cringe.
>>82938783You kinda are, hogging resources without giving it back because a kid would get in the way of your Nintendo switch gaming sessions is peak selfish.
The biggest problem with antinatalism is that it only really has any appeal to people who are high IQ and bourgeoisie enough to be educated and have free time to care about philosophy, which is the group of people who ironically have the best chances of giving a child a good life and a chance to improve the world. Meanwhile the people who are poor, uneducated, and generally just fucked up don't care at all and will continue to have kids who live horrible lives of suffering. .
>>82938816Well my sons are only 4 and 1 but the 4 year old is reading at a 5th grade level so I have high hopes for him. I mean, shit, these days just not giving your kids a tablet already puts them ahead of 90% of other kids. >>82938872Better than letting the mongs and degens inherit the earth by default.
>>82938913My philosophy is suffering = bad, and life = suffering. That ought to be enough in my book.But sure even without this outlook I'm not in a place materially or mentally where I need a kid on my hands.
>>82938922You're replying to a one sentence post you dumb schizo
>>82938894You could have just said you have no energy for kids and they will ruin your degenerate hobbies (like watching anime or shitposting online) instead of trying to validate your lifestyle with niche philosophy.
>>82938932What the fuck are you talking about. If there is no kid there is no need
>>82938939>My philosophy is suffering4chan being mostly anonymous makes it hard to guess what exactly someone means by anti-natalism, so you're grouped with schizos who make their life mission to convince people on nosex board to not have kids
>>82938937>Better than letting the mongs and degens inherit the earth by default.Ah yes let me embark on my epic quest to outbreed nomralfags. I'm sure I'll be rewarded in Valhalla for it
>>82938953Uh oh Timmy realizing he is the manchild after all. Antinatalism always ends up being a phase.
>>82938952Even if I constantly indulged the most degenerate behaviors possible the ethical implications are nothing compared to bringing another human into a world like this one.
>>82938974yeah, you are free to stop making excuses
>>82938968not him but of course antinatalists are usually manchildren (and likely on the spectrum), they cannot even fathom fatherhood and let's be honest they won't make good parents anyway so just let them have their hedonistic fun into their 80s :)
>>82938955I'm just saying my opinion retard. I'm not on some quest convincing anyone because I'm aware people are terminally retarded and will do anyything except listen to reason
>>82938964Yes, unironically. Go ahead and mock it. Wait til you're older and the only young people around to keep society going are illiterate, screen addicted retards.
>>82938974Cool, just pointing out where your starting point is (indulging in degen behavior).
>>82938995Yea, my sister literally got her tubes tied so she can play vidya and smoke weed all day. It kills her fiance, but he's also addicted to that shit so doesn't speak up much. It's a shame cause she's so good with children.
>>82938989Antinatalists are loud mouths though. I mean there already is another thread about the same topic. It's a forced meme really.
>>82938989>I'm just saying my opinion retardno shit, the point is it's not obvious so I have to rely on my assumptions from past threads like this
>>82938985>>82938986I'm just saying, if you're a breeder you have no moral high ground to stand on whatsoever. Ethically speraking, you're on par with a murderer as you also condemn your offpring to certain death. All suffering they endure throughout their lives, it's on your hands. Though of course if things head south, you'll do everything to convince yourself you're not to blame. Bercause you're retarded and self-serving.
>>82930824>Any opinions on anti Natalism?It's valid. Especially now, with the hell of globalism sending everyone to slavery in one way or another.People should make their own decisions on becoming parents. Especially fathers. Baby-trapping is evil.As a guy with a shit life, I certainly don't want to being my kids into this miserable fucking world. To each their own.
>>82939004>she's so good with children420 gamer?
>>82939009This faggy take is only sound if you fear death and view it as the ultimate suffering. I don't and hopefully my children are raised to share my beliefs on death.
>YOU'RE LITERALLY A MURDERER!!1
>>82939009>you have no moral high groundchildish thing to make a fuss about
>>82939013you're doing the globalists a favour ridding yourself so that they don't have to.
>>82939014Huh? I just see how she interacts with my kids. She sometimes half jokingly says they make her wish she had some. It's said in a joking manner but you can tell there's a kernel of sincerity in it.
>>82938939>My philosophy is suffering = bad, and life = suffering. That ought to be enough in my book.If it makes you happy, sure, but it's not really enough to be sensible as a moral framework. You haven't said anything about on what basis you are using to call suffering "bad", or explain what you mean by "life=suffering" or why you believe that any amount of suffering outweighs any amount of goodness in your moral calculus.
>>82939031>It's said in a joking mannerlet's leave it at that for the peace of mind
>>82939029Bring kids into a shit life is nig-thinking, anon.Sure, give me ten million and I'll find some bitch to have ten White kids with. It's not happening.
>>82939065nig thinking is just mindless rabid sex with fatties, hwhites limiting their procreation to sustainable levels is high IQ, its a shame jews are doing it when everyone else is depopulating themselves
>>82939015The process of dying will be the most painful and traumatic event in most people's life.
>>82939033Look I'm not in the mood getting some retarded discussion where you're just gonna retreat in further layers of abstraction. Oh yeah maybe suffering is ackshually good because this is all a simulation and it increases god's high score or some bullshit. Nah fuck off you absolute jerkoff
>>82939126If you don't like engaging in abstraction, you probably shouldn't participate in discussions about moral philosophy
>>82939136I'm not gonna go beyond the point where I have make a case that suffering is actually a bad thing. That's a retarded and useless discussion to have. Maybe you can circlejerk about if in philosophy class or some shit but I I'm not interested.
>>82939136>I'm not in the mood getting some retarded discussion>you probably shouldn't participate in discussions about moral philosophyand so the peace has befell the realm
>>82939093HAHAHAHAHAHA oreganodjutj
>>82939161Things can be bad in multiple ways. Bad can mean you don't like something, or that it violates a moral principle, or that it's harmful. Without expanding on what you mean your argument doesn't really make any sense. Also if you consider philosophy a circlejerk there's no reason to bring up anti-natalism (term created by philosophy professors) or morality at all, Just do whatever you want and refuse to justify it.
>>82939183I hope that the day you break your back lying there on the ground, people will ask you ExPaNd as to why you want medical attention
>>82939225>ExPaNdspeaking of which, does anyone remember the "expand dong" meme?
>>82930824>anti Natalismit's just a anti-white psyopthis kind of stuff is never pushed on blacks and jews, only white countries where the average woman has like 0,25 children anyways alreadyalso anti natalists NEVER push for total earth anihilation but only for the end of humans. curious
>>82939239adding to this:if you are truly believing in anti-natalism then that means that hitler did the jews a favor by genociding them - no more suffering for jews if they are gone after all...but OH NO - for some reason no anti-natalist agrees with that POV
>>82939239>also anti natalists NEVER push for total earth anihilation but only for the end of humanselaborate
>>82939250>life is suffering therefore humans need to stop procreating>so animals can suffer for another 3 billion years :)))))if you truly go with antinatalism then you gotta destroy all life, not just humans i thought about it - maybe even aim for a intergalactic crusade that targets extraterrestrial-life...like have a seletec guild of space-tamplars that take the "burden of life" upon them in a quest to rid the galaxy of lifethats also why i think the >muh no alien race would ever never ever never genoicde humans is stupidwhat if they are this exact kind of extremist-antinatalist?
>>82939265maybe just ask them nicely and they'll listen
>>82939250Because life is also suffering for animals, no? >"Oh, but anon, animals don't live the tortured existence humans do."Okay, then your contention is with the way we've organized society, not the existence of human life itself.
>>82939278that's crazy, like, dude
i actually care deeply about my kids, thats why i will never have any.all parents are stupid or narcissistic or both
>>82939295You sniff your own farts after typing that? >>82939288Nice retort.
>>82939295>all parents are stupid or narcissistic or bothproper rebellious middle schooler energy
>>82938894>Existence is not enjoyableThis is a you problem. Of course selfish narcissists can never imagine that other people have different perceptions and opinions that are perfectly justified.
>>82939295Childless morons can't even come up with one (1) single coherent response. Why not just be honest about where antinatalism comes from? Feminist bullshit is not unusual here.
>>82938939Life cannot be suffering, because your entire concept of suffering comes from the destruction/loss of quality of life. You are a retard. The very basis of your argument is contradictory. If anything can be good under the (false) premise of "suffering=bad", it would be the proliferation of life.
>>82939785Again why is it selfish to not produce offspring? All kinds of terrible things could happen to it but you choose to do it anyway. You could in effect condemn your own child to a life of pure suffering but you want to do it anyway. Taking that gamble is far worse than any of your nebulous appeals to some vague societal good or whatever.
>>82939840The hell are you rambling about? Meds
>>82940135>All kinds of terrible things could happenAll kinds of good things could happen. You place too much weight on negativity.
>>82940152That's an extremely privileged outlook
>>82930824The people I oppose should definitely be told its really cool. Also the people who always give bad advice about everything else seem strongly in favor of it so its obviously a shit take.
>>82940158>That's an extremely privileged outlookThanks for noticing. I am better than you.
>>82930824You don't need to have kids. You don't have to want them
>>82940196You have it better than me, probably.You probably don't deserve it though.
Theyre right and none of the 16 year old gigabased nietzschean fags will change that
>>82940463"its just an anti white psyop" wow you guys must really know whats going on i wish i was as esoteric and based as you!!!
>>82940451You only think that because of your brain chemicals. Deserving isn't real, right?
>>82931260>Hurr, you empathize with that position so it must mean it happened to you.You faggots are so gay and dumb, holy shit.
It's a lost fight. Dysgenic people will keep having children no matter what, and these will browse the neo-r9k or whatever incel place of the future.
>>82930874Maybe you have to because your biology begins working against it.
>>82930824Life isn't exclusively suffering. It's also full of beauty, wonder, and ecstasy. Anti-nihilists are just depressed people who can't see anything good in the world. Also it's a pretty obvious depopulation psyop.
>>82940463The 16 year old superbased Nietzscheans will absolutely change it because they will outbreed you retarded anti-natalists and your stupid ideology will die with you. You lost the most basic game - reproduction - and you did it proudly.
>>82931024Fuck you, I hope you get raped on Christmas.
>>82930824It's a win win for everyone.For atheist types, caring about things like legacy after death is nothing but a spook that has no actual influence on your life, therefore raising a child isn't worth the hassle.For spiritual types who do care about the future, it means that the views they disagree with will die out faster.
>>82930824If they hate life and suffering so much, they should just kill themselves.I'm being dead serious.Their entire ideology is invalidated by the fact they're still breathing and not with a noose around their neck or a 9mm in their brain.Let us "natalists" (normal healthy human beings) suffer all we want.You losers should be dead or working to correct your ways.
>>82930942How is the existence of down syndrom retard in any way positive. The world would obviously be better if we didn't have to waste ressources caring about non functional humans.
>>82931244Eugenic and Antinatalism are at odds because the latter is a outgrow of liberalism and therefore about letting people chose to do whatever they want.Meanwhile eugenic is about putting the needs of the collective above the individual.
>>82931010yeah i can say i've done a lot of emotional growth and work in therapy to heal childhood shit, but I still don't feel like I'm up for the task. Like... i feel like I could probably be more capable than my parents for emotional needs but I'm so burnt out I just don't think I could cut it without having a mental breakdown from the lifelong commitment and burden of responsibility. It just kinda feeds into the vicious circle of resentment towards my parents like they robbed me of the joy of wanting to be a parent and live a normal life.
>>82942666What about functional humans doing antisocial things.
>>82943004they can at least theoritically be saved through education, downies are basically cockroaches.
Thread is still up somehow.But its crazy how many people misunderstand what antinatalism actually is and its purpose. Misinformed takes thrown everywhere
>>82930824They're retarded. I think a lot of them are just capable, backbone NPCs who should breed.Unofrtunately evolution will kill off those of good enough stock just like it will kill the spergs vehemently pushing it.It's also completely retarded to humanity. You could kill civilization within two generations if everyone did it.
None of these breeders know what antinatalism actually is
>>82930824notice how anti natalists only go after white people.
>>82944181Only white people (and some kinds of asians) are smart enough to come up with ideas this dumb, unironically. Browns are basically animals who can't conceptualise philosophical ideas.Brown
>>82944018>>82944166If you post whatever personal definition you have we'll tear that apart too.
