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god doesn't really change anything in this, given how the orthodox jews are

I don't want to be hurt. I don't like seeing others get hurt. I want to live in a society where people try to avoid hurting each other.

God told me to rape you anon!

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I'm cucked by my biology and upbringing to act prosocially even though all normalfags around view me like garbage and deserve every crumb of suffering and pain they get.
I wish I were a proper psychopath so badly.

>hurrr I cannot develop empathy and other social customs without constant wagging finger skywizard surveillance
It's so tiresome.

people have been able to differentiate moral "right" from "wrong"(depends on culture to a degree) for long before organized religion was a thing. if you need a religion to tell you what is right and wrong and not your own internal moral compass, you are subhuman

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>>83001036
Word
786

>>83001037
that's the point
where does it come from, aside from "it feels right"?

>>83001050
Brownism I assume. Some people are just born without the latent ability for impulse control and consequence foresight so guardrails must be put in place.

>>83001050
It's subjective. Social contract cause otherwise society wouldnt work. It's also baked into humans to some extent. The fact that a lot of religious people dont get this makes me think they are psychos.

>>83001041
>before organized religion was a thing
When was this, exactly? Even cave people had shamans and societies that centered around religion.

>>83000984
Emotionally. If it makes me feel bad for the victims then I think it's bad.

>>83001050
It comes from generally not wanting to hurt others. And not wanting to be hurt yourself. Religion is taken as some breakthrough think for saying 'do unto others as they would do unto you' when in reality it should be the basic compass of anyone religon or not. Idk why you need a god to tell you "actually, killing people is bad you know."

>>83001069
>consequences
another question: which consequences should a person strive for?
>>83001086
>Social contract
that phrase pisses me off like no tomorrow, but I get what you mean
>>83001097
>It comes from generally not wanting to hurt others. And not wanting to be hurt yourself.
that's obvious as long as there's no conflict between these two
or even between not hurting one person and not hurting another person

>>83000984
Its more that There is a certain guarantee that whoever does this will suffer the consequences and that harm to me by third parties will be punished too, if I lived in coutries like mexico or sweden I woudnt give a shit and go like full joker in gotham doing what I want

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>>83001094
You know some humans feel
Good about harming others plus your whole morality is contingent on neurotransmitters then
>>83001097
>not wanting to hurt others.

Why don't u want to hurt others?

>And not wanting to be hurt yourself.

If you were nearly immortal would it change then since you can never be hurT by them?
>Religion is taken as some breakthrough think for saying 'do unto others as they would do unto you' when in reality it should be the basic compass of anyone religon or not.


Midwit take since human history has been a series of genocides and rape
> "actually, killing people is bad you know."

Are you a vegan >>83001128
At least your honest :)

The same reason it exists in religion. Religion is the morality of the time codified into a book

>>83000984
The greatest sacrifice you can do as a christian is to kidnap as many atheist baby as you can, baptise them and then killing them. Saving them from hell in the process.
99.99% of christians would tell me that this is wrong and evil, but most of them wouldn't be able to find a solid theological reason as to why. They may like to pretend that their morality comes from the bible, but it mostly comes from emotional reactions like all of us.

Also you can totally have a metaphysical basis for objective morality without a personal god, read some Plato.

>>83000984
Idk bout you guys but I'm an atheist but I live by Pascal's Wager so I act like there is a God and He's watching eventhough deep down I know there's no one there

>>83000984
God supports rape in the Bible but if you need a book to tell you not to rape I think you're just a sociopath.

>>83000984
I'll explain this like you are a psychopath:

Why take shelter when a thunderstorm approaches? Because their are consequences if you don't.

Assaulting others and rape with no grounds other than "you can" just creates a rapid collapse of everything around, yourself included, and it's why many people stay civil because they rather take in limited pleasures be it entertainment, food, games, or even shit posting here, than to try and rape someone to then get killed or worse by someone who cared about your victim, and even if you fend them off how much energy do you have to take out everyone that would just like to cut you up because they can?

Thus we made a world with rule sets that give you pathways to pleasure that allow everything to operate longer than a handful of years.

>>83001143
>that their morality comes from the bible
jay eh double u eh is notoriously known for opposing child killing

>>83001152
The jewish one or the Christian one?

>>83001050
From the same place your chosen deity comes from.

>>83001165
>your chosen deity
404

>>83001152
Why is rape bad let's look at This scientifically it's just a piece of skin rubbing against skin so not really that big of a deal.
>>83001157
>Assaulting others and rape with no grounds other than "you can" just creates a rapid collapse of everything around, yourself included, and it's why many people stay civil because they rather take in limited pleasures be it entertainment, food, games, or even shit posting here, than to try and rape someone to then get killed or worse by someone who cared about your victim, and even if you fend them off how much energy do you have to take out everyone that would just like to cut you up because they can?


Ding ding morality is a utility to organize society so what ever benefits overall society gets to be kinged moral.

>>83001170
>Why is rape bad
So can I rape you?

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>>83001170
>overall society
you niggas like to put time immemorial questions into words like that
what's that ding ding sound supposed to be by the way?

>>83001139
>Why don't u want to hurt others?
Because I have been socialised to not be psychopath. Or otherwise for no other reason than hurting others usually mean you yourself will get hurt.
>If you were nearly immortal would it change then since you can never be hurT by them?
This a stupid take because it is impossible for it to ever happen so idk what your point is.
>Midwit take since human history has been a series of genocides and rape
More often than not done in the name of religion...
>Are you a vegan
I am not a cannibal. Animals don't have the same level of sentience as we do so our system of morality doesn't apply. I have no desire to torutre or hurt animals on purpose, but I have problem eating them. Sucks for them that they didn't evolve as much as we did.

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>>83001190
No, you can not rape the willing

well even if god is real the universe is cold and uncaring. if i kill someone there will probably be some accounting for it. i don't know what this guy is on about. sure, i could get away with it, but i don't think that's such a big issue.

>>83001170
>Just skin rubbing against skin
Extremely reductionistic and juvenile take. But we are on r9k so I'm not surprised.
Anyways you should kill yourself.

>>83000984
logic? thats what philosophy and ethics are built on retard.

>>83001195
>Or otherwise for no other reason than hurting others usually mean you yourself will get hurt.


So would you go to Philippines and hurt kids if you could get away with it?

>This a stupid take because it is impossible for it to ever happen so idk what your point is.

Vulnerable people you know that can never hurt you back?
>More often than not done in the name of religion

Abrahamic religions have only been a thing for 2k years when human civilization is 10k yrs old
>>83001219
If you got away with it would you then?>>83001254
No this is something we should touch on why is sex just a big thing in human society? At end of day it's a very minimal thing and birth control , condoms and vasectomies. Exist.

>>83000984
>If there's no god how do u justify your morals?
Ethics.
It's a whole branch of philosophy that is imo better at consistently figuring out what is right, wrong, good, or bad.
No god required.

>>83001277
If you got away with it would you then?<
>no morals
>revenge is a tale as a old as time

>>83000984
Rape and hurting others is good and it happens every day, it's how chads live good lives, though you'll never find anyone accusing them of rape or hurting anyone.

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>>83001219
It's a "can't have nice things" issue most people don't want to rape and kill, but that small few create issues for everyone else and how systems operate. It's like the saying "lock doors keep honest people out" the idea of the lock is not because everyone wants inside your place, it's the idea you are making clear for others to stay out, that if they break that lock or door, they are not invited in.
Likewise the reason we say you can't rape someone is the mountain worth of consequences that come from that, damaging the person, giving them STDs, if female creating pregnancy risks, and it reduces the function of the person, or out right breaks them, thus the rule is in place to discourage the behavior for the better benefit of the masses. To even care about good or evil is more to care about having your wants or needs met vs others. As a whole society works better and thrives if you keep everyone from acting like dumb animals, but that means some will "lose" at that game but it's a smaller amount sacrificed than just letting everyone be savages. Also mind you the people that would cry they can't kill and rape would likely be killed and raped in the primal setting as to even have that kind of emotional irregularity means you are not even functioning in this easy mode setting society is on right now.

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>>83000984
Species that kill each other randomly go extinct fairly easy because they don't require external factors to threaten them - they do it by themselves.
Species of loners get outcompeted by social species because they easily outnumber them. But social settings require rules as everything in nature is about energy. Food is basically energy in, work and effort is basically energy out. If your energy intake is lower than your energy outflow, you'll sooner or later die. That's why even the most basic life forms stop cooperating whenever they get screwed energy-balance wise.
Better cooperation allows for specialization as you basicaly trust others to take care of certain matters while you focus on something else in return. Specialization allows technological progress and thus advantage over social species that do not have enough cooperation to develop specialization.
This of course doesn't negate natural competition, so in reality social species are constant struggle between opportunism and trying to screw others over so your energy balance would be better so you could leave more copies of your genes or whatever, and enforcement of rules allowing cooperation to continue and outcompete other groups. Also mistakes cause conflict even when both sides are well-meaning.
Those rules are basically morals and it's nothing more than beneficial behavior patterns in social species. Religion is nothing more than attempt at codification of those patterns mixed with rituals to strengthen social bonds, hierarchy to create order in past times of chaos, and some natural human greed and corruption, because no human construct is safe from human flaws which come from nature itself and can't be completely avoided as we're part of nature.
This means no specific religion is required for morals, but you will naturally develop religion or something similar in a process of maintaining behavior beneficial for survival.

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>>83001303
>though you'll never find anyone accusing them of rape or hurting anyone
you just did

>>83001298
This is a homeless poor orphan prostitute in 3rd world country and you could kill him to silence him and pay off gang to dump his body. What do you lose?
>>83001289
Would you sacrifice your mom to save a city from being wiped out?

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this the dumbest strawman ever

cooperating increases the most good

you don't need the imaginary torture sky rabbi to know that

also if christians were so moral why did you commit the most genocide, slavery, colonization, theft in all of history. obviously it doesn't even work at all

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>>83001333
>What do you lose?
time
think of a better scenario where I can actually get something nice

>>83001323
>Species that kill each other randomly go extinct fairly easy because they don't require external factors to threaten them - they do it by themselves.


Humans have been doing this for millennia's. Were descendants of rapists and murderers.

>But social settings require rules as everything in nature is about energy. Food is basically energy in, work and effort is basically energy out. If your energy intake is lower than your energy outflow, you'll sooner or later die. That's why even the most basic life forms stop cooperating whenever they get screwed energy-balance wise.


So cooperation is actually selfish in end but why not be a parasite on society and take more then u put in>>83001350
Ur talking to me you don't actually value time lol

>>83001348
>may bait thread is not baiting like I want
>they are actually engaging in the question
>I will now shitpost as loud as I can in hopes to get the bait I was after


(You)

>>83001361
>Ur talking to me you don't actually value time lol
neither do I value hypothetical aids monkeys

>>83001333
>This is a homeless poor orphan prostitute in 3rd world country and you could kill him to silence him and pay off gang to dump his body. What do you lose?
mate, giving me a ball and telling me to play for my freedom won't work. there are clearly defined rational, emotional, and experiential reasons to value some things as right and some things as wrong. a lot of them are hypothetical and not general thoughever so maybe that's not satisfying enough for people who want the reason to be an asshole

>>83001374
isn't engagement the point of baiting?

>>83000984
If you're incapable of experiencing empathy without religion, you are quite literally a low IQ subhuman, and I'm glad you found Hod because a base creature like you should have their minds locked in that cage to save the rest of us from your wrath.

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>>83001333
>Would you sacrifice your mom to save a city from being wiped out?
No because I don't believe in human sacrifice.
What kind of crazy cult are you from where that is a reasonable question?
Just insane magical thinking.

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>>83001401
textless post dame dame

>>83000984
I don't do these things because I'm afraid of going to prison or being killed. If there was no prison I would be an evil rapist murderer.

>>83001401
Empathy is woo woo made up bullshit, usually used as a word of manipulation.

Sympathy is a thing, empathy is nonsense.

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>>83001401
>empathy

Is just picrel stop using appeal
To emotion
>>83001380
Because you know ur ethics fall apart there you rapist

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>>83001374
>don't have argument
>j-just call it bait and hope people skim over it

abrahamic judeogolems

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>>83001406
>What kind of crazy cult are you from where that is a reasonable question?
are you talking about christianity?

>>83001425
plenty of initially specialized words escaped the containment and were given some vague valuing among normals
gaslighting being another example
>>83001428
>Because you know ur ethics fall apart there you rapist
huh? what ethics?

>>83001432
I think you are confused or retarded.
At what point do you think I was arguing for any religion of any kind?

>>83001425
Its funny those retards cant figure that their own virtue signaling is not empathy and when things go to shit in their safe space their "empathy" will go to shit too

>>83001448
you are not allowed to form original opinions outside of your designated camp
please, behave

>>83000984
Simple, I rape and kill as much as I'd like. None.

The truth of the matter anon is I am an animal. I recognize that our common held "morals" are social myths enforced through force and instilled in us through culture. For most people, there is a fundamental emotional response to do things they find immoral that prevents them from doing it or requiring justification. This is most likely an evolutionary tactic. Yes, with no God their is no supreme ruler to issue morality, but that makes God no different than any human ruler or government. Every story of God has him/her/they act just as immoral and petty as a human. If ability to enforce law is your requirements to a moral law, then I invite your God or any God to come and enforce them.

I like a universe without concrete morals. In such a universe humanity has crawled out of the dirt the make the universe better, to establishe order in the chaos, to declare we can be better.

You don't need a God for a good moral system, just humans willing to try their best to be kind to each other and fight for a better tomorrow.

>>83000984
I'm not an athiest but to play Devil's Advocate, from empathy. The ability to understand your own pain and to not want to inflict it on others.
To further play Devil's Advocate, plenty of religious people engage in those kinds of antisocial behaviors, probably at the same rate as atheists but not 100% sure on that.

>>83001425
mirror neurons say you're an ignorant brainlet

>>83001474
I bet you couldn't explain what mirror neurons are in your own words without looking it up.
Hell, I bet you couldn't explain what a neuron in general is in your own words without looking it up.

You are just tossing buzzwords you heard from someone smarter than you with zero understanding.

>>83001451
What you described is sympathy, empathy is when you have the mental faculties capable of feeling the person's pain as if it was your own leading to a greater level of understanding, sympathy is exactly what you've described and has been used by performative women and has been labeled empathy despite their definitions not being equal.

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>>83001511
>>83001474
insightful, aren't we?

>>83001511
>I don't know what mirror neuron means
>I'll just project to seem like I have something

ok brainlet

>>83001393
Yes but I think anons point was more of the issues we have had on 4chan for the last 5(ish) years where it's clear they want a certain reaction and plainly put they don't get what they want so they tried to turn the heat up on what they want out of posters.

>>83001551
>where it's clear they want a certain reaction
I don't really understand the point of expecting a specific reaction, so I can't say anything to that.

>>83001361
>Humans have been doing this for millennia's. Were descendants of rapists and murderers.
To other groups. Within our groups we're cooperative. Towards others we're hostile. Lions for example are considered to be endangered species and part of the reason is that infanticide is quite high there. And they can afford it because they have few natural predators. If they weren't as dominant, they'd go extinct long time ago, like most species which didn't have any in-group preferences. In the end it's just matter of scale. Lions kill based on family ties while we kill based on racial, national, tribal, ideological ties. Same shit, just moved couple decimals further. It's just that there usually is breaking point between benefit and loss. For example marrying around 3rd cousin degree is most beneficial from mathematical point of view and statistically such couples are happier and more compatible, leaving more offspring, but when you take it to shit like 1st cousin relationship degree, like pajeets or goatfuckers in many places, suddenly you start to get much more genetic diseases and population turns into low IQ impulsive retards.

>So cooperation is actually selfish in end
Because single unit is part of the spectrum of relativeness. End of it, but still is. Competition takes place on whole spectrum. And life is nothing more than attempt at preserving information, struggle against entropy.
>why not be a parasite on society and take more then u put in
Because by doing it you're making others feel cheated and they'll exile or kill you. Suddenly you either lose natural survival game, or are close to losing it, because as I've mentioned before, groups come with benefits. If you're deprieved of those benefits, you're easy picking for any organized, cooperative group or you will simply have to spend more time convering more matters and won't have any time left to become proficient enough to push technology. Then you'll be spear-chucking nigger conquered by rifles.

How does god justify morals? Isn't it just the opinion of some being? Truth is subjective even if god thinks it. That's like saying if some Aliens came along and believed in rape they'd be more correct by virtue of being more powerful.

If we simulated a universe with conscious beings would that mean that all our values are correct inside of the simulated universe?

If it turns out the god of our universe believes in rape and diddling children is that now correct?

Why does god make subjective truth objective? Power? Is Trump more correct than a bum on the streets on some moral topics? Is he the arbiter of truth? Why? Is he the arbiter of truth because he's the arbiter of truth? If truth is defined as being true because he said it's true isn't that just an empty definition?

>>83000984
you justify it with a collectivist worldview rather than an individualist one

>last 50 years of secularism has brought more kindness to this world than 2000 years of christ cult nonsense

How do theist fags recover?

>>83001580
Not gonna lie you made most sense here but if in future human labor is Diminished where robots can do most of work how will this dynamic change?

>>83000984
Letting people do "whatever" in really inefficient to our survival as a species.

>>83001606
>How do theist fags recover?
By reminding you of the first half of the 20th century and all the evil shit commies/socialist did and in some places still doing.

>>83001005
This. If you need religion to tell you to not be a shit human being who rapes and harms others, you're worse than wild animals and don't deserve to be let loose in society.

>>83000984
If there is God, does God arbitrarily declare certain things to be moral, or does God do so based on some rule, such as "human beings have a nature, so what is good is what accords with that nature?"

If arbitrarily, how is God's decree different from the law of a powerful tyrant, or any more moral?

If based on a rule, why does this rule not operate in the absence of God?

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>>83001694
>whataboutism
>capitalist propaganda

lol do you honestly believe an ideology that emerged in the last 50 years has done worse than 3000+ years of your religious imperialism lmao

retard

>>83001730
Nowhere near the kill streak of communism in just 100 years, noob vs hacker

>>83001757
It's interesting how all these mass murdering Communist regimes were so anti Christian too

>>83001634
Machinery requires maintenance. If there will be no work then those who can't fit into maintenance/replacement class, replace because in case of war and power outages or destruction of machinery humans will have to replace them at least temporarily, will either be coddled and demoralized by social safety nets, resulting in them dying out, or will be given rifles, drone controlers and will be shoved into warrior class.
Also machinery requires infrastructure. Drones have used such wide use precisely because they don't need anything besides radio waves. Humans will still need to pave route for infrastructure by their own hands, with regular power tools. Operating on wild ground is too complex for machines, at least right now. Not to mention limited power with out current battery technology.
As for aspect of morals, it will not change a thing. Morality is just inprinted in us so deep by nature you can see the same mechanisms among most living things, if not all. This means our shared ancestors had to develop it and it's fundamental for any interaction. As long as there will be interactions, this system will be used, unless you change reality so much it'll evolve into something else given enough millenia. It all comes down to sense of fairness when it comes to energy put and reward received for it. If someone will have to work while others won't have to, those who have to will lose motivation or strike/revolt. That's why those who won't be contributing by working will be either given scraps just to intoxicate themselves with cheap entertainment and die out, or be forced to contribute by putting their lives on the line as soldiers. Either you get your hands dirty in oil and get back pains, or you risk getting maimed by drone.
Morality is all about fairness and order, automatization in this context is irrelevant.

>>83001781
They were (and still are) anti-all religions because Marxism and socialism are totalizing ideologies.

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>>83001757
you must be joking lmao. read a book

>>83001781
christianity is a psyop to make you worship jews and install rothschild central banks and destroy any authentic individual expresssion. you're hated for a reason

>>83001425
>Empathy is woo woo made up bullshit
What does this even mean? What is happening when somebody cries when they hear a sad story?
>usually used as a word of manipulation
Is fear not real because it can be used to manipulate people?

>>83001730
Looks like a direct hit.
Classic butthurt right there.

And the funniest part, I ain't even religious.

>>83001694
>first half of the 20th century
The average german didn't hate jews because of eugenics reasons, but because "they killed Jesus"

>>83001806
>What is happening when somebody cries when they hear a sad story?
Sympathy usually.

>>83001807
>no argument
>pretending to be neutral when you're obviously taken a side
>probably samefagging

I accept your defeat

>>83001817
I don't really feel like going on a hour long lecture it would require to explain all of the reasons why the Jews were singled out especially for condemnation.
I will instead recommend you read a actual book on the topic instead of being a ignorant nigger about a topic you clearly don't understand.

>>83001804
Wait, are you unirronically actually a commie?
That explains so much actually.
LMFAO.

>>83001823
Somebody understanding that somebody is sad is different from somebody being sad because somebody else is.
If only we had different words to convey those two concepts.

>>83001862
He and a handful of others from /leftypol/ is on here 24 hours a day seethe posting, anon. Haven't you noticed?

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>>83000984
morals are a direct result how to behave in the most advantageous way to survive in nature with the group and tribe

>>83001839
>no argument
I don't need to argue for a strawman you made up.
You just made assumptions and ended up making a ass of yourself. Simple as that.
>pretending to be neutral when you're obviously taken a side
Black and white thinking is the sign of being stupid.
I have bad news for you, you just might be stupid.
>probably samefagging
wut?
I don't think you know what that means.

>>83000984
Morality is objectively defined and is part of our human biology. You might as well ask "why is oxygen good for you?"

Also, your question is misleading. It's not a god or higher power that determines a certain interpretation of what to do with morals, it's religious text. An atheist still believes that they have a "god," they just don't call it a god or think that there are intelligent/sentient entities above humans. But an atheist who uses some philosophy book or (even more retarded) psychology book to guide how they handle questions of morality, that's essentially a branch of religion that is specific to human behavior.

>>83000984
>If there's no god how do u justify your morals?
in the same way you can justify belief in math truths or epistemic truths

"your degree of believe in something is justified by the degree of evidence you have of it" is a epistemic truth that doesnt seem like it would need god to be true. the same is true for the number 4. the number 4 has to be exist, even if god doesnt

moral realism IS NOT dependent on god. lots of moral realist philosophy professors are atheists, for instance

personally im a loose theist (not judeo christian), but thats irrelevant, and i believe in moral realism

>>83001881
I usually avoid semi-polical threads.

I just jumped in this one because the classic theist VS Atheist bait made me nostalgic.

>>83000984
Well the OT God foresaw the ancient Isrealites forcing women into marriages and Moses ordering the killing of children, and didn't do anything about it. He did intervene when some priests lit a fire when they weren't told to though.

Are you sure "rape is bad" comes from your God?

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>>83000984
Assuming you're a good person, you have the obvious justification that acting in immoral ways tends to lead to the degradation of society, or has negative long-term consequences for you or those around you, which makes your life exponentially worse.

The thing is that the average person is not capable of this, and needs the threat of a higher power in order to not devolve into an impulsive hedonistic scourge on society. Said higher power can be religious in nature, or just a particularly powerful state or law enforcement.

>>83001975
>Assuming you're a good person,

What's good?
>that acting in immoral ways tends to lead to the degradation of society

Why should someone value overall society

>or has negative long-term consequences for you or those around you, which makes your life exponentially worse.

What if ur suicidal?

So ur whole morality is based on self preservation? Not any actual good

>>83002013
Read the republic.

how many levels do you have to dumb down your brain to understand the logical framework of sand religion people?
I don't understand the appeal