You ever feel like this place is dragging you down, poisoning your mind and corrupting your soul?
>>84719009I don't come here for more than 3 hours a week, so no.
>>84719009am i trapped on 4chan or did i delude myself into thinking im trapped on 4chan...
>>84719009do you ever feel otherwise?
>>84719009As opposed to any other place on the internet today?
>>84719054i have no reason to,because i have no reason to be here.
>>84719009You mean, Earth? Yeah this place is a fucking shit hole. Oh, you mean /r9k/? My life was shit before 4chan.
>>84719009you're absolutely pathetic if you let a media site get to you like this
>>84719009This place opened my mind into accepting that women care about looks. I know shocking revelation.
Yes, but my mental health was arguably worse before
>>84719009No I feel like reality is dragging me down, poisoning my mind, and corrupting my soul, and this place is just one of the few where people are honest about how absolutely fucking awful reality is.
>>84719009No, they only do it to themselves and choose to become more negative with themselves,
>>84719009Nope. Tbf, every time I come here I have a good time and simultaneously feel like an outrageous gigachad in comparison to some of the other robots frequenting this mongolian basket weaving forum>I guess ymmv
>>84719009It's really nowhere near as bad as old /b/ tbqh
>>84719009no, it cheers me upi like reading funny posts you guys write, i also like posting dumb shit
>>84719009Yeah, I'm sure this is by design
>>84719009Yes, but not this board, I feel that this entire world corrupts.
no, i came here from gamespot.com i kind of stopped playing video games just post on /v/.
>>84719009That depends.If she replies to the last message I sent her, then my whole journey through this hellhole was worth it, my spirit is uplifted and my life is improved.If she doesn't reply then it was all for naught.
>>84719009No I like this place because it makes me feel less aloneI like knowing that there are other people like me
People don't even realize the damage places like this do to their psyche. They encourage toxic, unhealthy mindsets and normalizes violent and hateful rhetoric. Any young incels or losers who get sucked into this place are destined to stay that way, whereas if they spent time in healthier communities focused on self-improvement, their chances of turning their life around would be magnitudes higher. As the saying goes, you are the company you keep.
>>84720976>Any young incels or losers who get sucked into this place are destined to stay that wayKind of a chicken and egg thing They had to become incels and losers first. You interact fine with normies until you touch the stove too many times and learn that getting burned hurts
>>84721010Not really. Even if you're a loser when you're young, you have a chance to work on yourself and get out of it to become more well-adjusted and normal. But if you just stay here bitching and moaning, hating women, hating society, doing nothing in life, then you're definitely not getting out of it.
>>84721010>>84721052I realized maybe my first answer didn't directly address your point, so I will try again.I see what you're saying in that some people are naturally born with physical or mental disadvantages that result in them growing up as losers and eventually they find themselves in places like this where it feels like they have a community of people with similar experiences. It's understandable why such a person would end up here, but I would say it's not beneficial to them. You don't become a loser by being here. Losers naturally end up here and then become even bigger losers and tare more likely to stay losers.
>>84719009No because i am not a white weakling who is easily influenced and propagandized
>>84721052The point, theoretically without getting too strawmanny about it, is that being ostracized is something that happens to you. Which camp you fall into is not an outcome you have any control over. You can work on yourself as much as you like, but you can't fundamentally compel decisions for other people who have their own agency. >>84721107>I see what you're saying in that some people are naturally born with physical or mental disadvantages that result in them growing up as losersYou're pathologizing. If the reasons people are excluded are so easily discernible, this wouldn't be an ambiguous discussion at all. I appreciate trying to narrow down what you mean, but what you mean is still fundamentally biased in favor of your belief in a just-world. Sometimes, life sucks then you die. It was like that for the Psalmist in Psalm 88. It was like that for the elegist of the ancient Anglo-Saxon poem "The Wanderer."The just-world fallacy has a circular reasoning problem: success and failure are both proof of its metaphysics. A Chad who likes to work out is proof that working out attracts women. A gymcel is proof that he hasn't worked out enough, or must be secretly sabotaging himself. It doesn't matter which one you look at. Well, to rebut the idea simply, the material world is not just, and there is no cosmic karma ledger that's going to upcycle your consciousness into a more convenient body upon your death. Now, if you can understand why that idea is ridiculous, try and imagine a cosmic customer service counter where you can exchange your good boy points like tickets at an arcade for a prize. >I was a good person and I was good to the people around me, AND I did some popular and fashionable things! One gf please!This is not a serious worldview. This is a petitionary prayer at best, and at worst you might as well write a letter to Santa Claus in the North Pole asking for a gf because you were a good boy this year.
>>84719009not really because I don't take anyone here seriously. I realize most of you are here to demoralize and tear others down. Some or most of you might even be paid to do this as well.
>>84719009Not really, if not here I'd have rotted on some other site in a similar fashion. I was never really well to begin with.
>>84721331Oh so you're another one of these fatalist doomers "I have no agency or control over outcomes in my life I'm just a stick floating on the ocean and the waves take me as they may.">You're pathologizing.If the reasons people are excluded are so easily discernible, this wouldn't be an ambiguous discussion at all.They actually are pretty clearly discernible though. We know that being ugly is a disadvantage socially, as is being short, as is being autistic or socially awkward. We know about the halo affect. Having these traits makes it much more likely someone ends up few or no friends or romantic opportunities.>what you mean is still fundamentally biased in favor of your belief in a just-world.I don't believe in a just world. I don't see how anything I've said indicates that I do. I explicitly said that some people are born disadvantaged. What I do believe is that individuals possess agency, and that the choices a person makes in life effect their outcomes. A loser is rarely going to turn himself into a chad no matter what he does. I never said that was possible. But you can consider two paths he can take, one where he NEETs it up, does nothing, eats like shit, gets fat and unhealthy, or an alternative path where he decides to get in shape, eat healthy, educate himself, careermax, find healthy/productive hobbies, try to make some real life friends... which path do you think would lead to a better, more rewarding, and happier life? It's obvious.
>>84721413>Oh so you're another one of these fatalist doomersNo.>"I have no agency or control over outcomes in my lifeThis is a fundamental misunderstanding on your part. Re-read what I said:>you can't fundamentally compel decisions for other people who have their own agency.You only have control over your own thoughts and actions. You do not have control over the thoughts and actions of others. You might as well try to control the weather. Study this post repeatedly until you understand what is being said.
>>84721489>You only have control over your own thoughts and actions.OK, brilliant insight. What are we to draw from this? What is your actual argument?And while we can't directly control the thoughts and actions of others, clearly we can influence them.>Study this post repeatedly until you understand what is being saidIt was painful enough trying to get through it once tbqh. Just seemed like a load of pseud gibberish and strawmanning. Your argument seems to boil down to "down bother working out because youll never be chad" and a retard belief system around people being sorted into "camps" which they apparently have zero control over.
This is our stronghold against Chad the Thundercock. Either you agree or GTFO
>>84721588>OK, brilliant insight. The reason we know it's true is because it stands up to scrutiny. >What are we to draw from this? Re-read what I said:>being ostracized is something that happens to you.If you've 'ostracized' yourself from society, that's called 'hermitage.' You have control over hermitage. What you do not have control over is being ostracized. Being an incel (deprived of sex), or being a loser (deprived of status) is predicated on the actions of others. Someone has to be doing the deprivation to lead to a state of being deprived. >What is your actual argument?Re-read what I said:>You can work on yourself as much as you like, but you can't fundamentally compel decisions for other people who have their own agency. In plainer English: You can better yourself, but you cannot choose for others.>And while we can't directly control the thoughts and actions of others, clearly we can influence them.Go ahead then. Influence, manipulate, and modify me into assenting to this proposition. Even though I think this is idiotic, I welcome the challenge like I would welcome a hypnotist try out his magic trick on me.
>>84719009I feel that way about everything, not just r9k or 4chan in general. Most of the world seems literally demon possessed nowadays. Of course, you only get a fraction of that here.
>>84720976>People don't even realize the damage places like this do to their psyche.As opposed to the gambling machine websites that have personalized content generated for you that's specifically designed to piss you off so as to promote engagement and produce ad revenue and prevent you from sleeping or choosing to take a moment for your own thoughts?>They encourage toxic, unhealthy mindsets and normalizes violent and hateful rhetoric. The opposite. That's what normie websites do. 4chan encourages cognitive dissonence and thinking for oneself, without so much as an updoot. The "violent and hateful rhetoric" is just you being afraid of people taking rhetoric into their own hands and being human rather than drones. It's really quite self-contradictory. Humans are subjects, not objects to be influenced.>Any young incels or losers who get sucked into this place are destined to stay that way,Nah. Everyone here is young. People leave and move on, in time. This place has made my life better and improved my writing, reading, and emotional processing skills.>if they spent time in healthier communities focused on self-improvementLike who? All other communities just demand subserviance of the mind. Name one "healthy" community focused on "self-improvement" that is actually okay with wrongthink?>their chances of turning their life around would be magnitudes higher. Yeah, if I just gave my mind to the normies and let them govern me so I become dependant on them and never learn how to govern myself, I'd surely improve. Tankie scum. >>84721413>the choices a person makes in life effect their outcomes.*affect. And this means you believe in a just world, that the juice is worth the squeeze.>which path do you think would lead to a better, more rewarding, and happier life?Neither. Despair and gullibility are both vices.>>84721588>we can't directly control the thoughts and actions of others, clearly we can influence them. They are people, not tools to be wielded.
>>84721831What a load of nonsense. Your actions and behavior influence how people treat you. If you behave like a weird grumpy little incel, yeah, you might become ostracized somewhat. People don't just choose who to befriend and who to avoid at random. You're trying to absolve incels of any agency or responsibility for their own situation, just as I originally thought. According to you, inceldom is just something that happens to people, and they have no control over it, just an inevitable consequence of being "ostracized" as a child, presumably for no reason. But anyway, none of this addresses my prior points and what I'm advocating for, which is for people to make efforts to actively improve their lives and their mental and physical health. Through such efforts, major life goals can become attainable. What do you advocate for? Once an incel always an incel? The universe has decided to ostracize me and turn me incel, and so it shall always be. Can't compete with the chads? No point in even trying? Just give up and NEET away?>Go ahead then. Influence, manipulate, and modify me into assenting to this proposition.Surely you must know how stupid this is. Influence does not equal control. I can't control what you think, but what I say and how I say it influences how you perceive me and how you respond. Likewise, how a person presents themselves affects how they are perceived and treated by others. This is very obvious.
not really I can always just counter post there's a lot of freedom, it doesn't really even misogyny post well anymore it just does it's repetitive humor.
>>84719133You describe 99% of people, including yourself.
>>84721971>Your actions and behavior influence how people treat youExcept when they don't.>If you behave like a weird grumpy little incel, yeah, you might become ostracized somewhat.If you say the same exact thing as Chad while looking like an incel, you get ostracized.>People don't just choose who to befriend and who to avoid at random.No. It's looks, which are random. So, effectively it's random. >You're trying to absolve incels of any agency or responsibility for their own situation, just as I originally thought.And you're trying to pretend that the world is just and people get what they deserve based on how they act. I'm nta, but it's obvious.>According to you, inceldom is just something that happens to people, and they have no control over it, just an inevitable consequence of being "ostracized" as a child, presumably for no reason. Largely speaking, yes.>is for people to make efforts to actively improve their lives and their mental and physical health.That was NOT your argument, bro. You were saying people should join communities that enforce doing that shit. Hence why 4chan=bad>Through such efforts, major life goals can become attainableThere's your just world fallacy again. The world doesn't work that way. Never did.>Once an incel always an incel?Lucidity, mostly. If the world sucks, then it sucks. One should not deny reality just for comfort.>The universe has decided to ostracize me and turn me incel, and so it shall always be.So it is,>No point in even trying?Cope. Lol.>Influence does not equal control.If it doesn't, then how come saying you have no influence means you have no control?>can't control what you thinkThen you can't influence it.>what I say and how I say it influences how you perceive me and how you respondThen you control what I thinkPick one.
>>84721971>I can't control what you think, but what I say and how I say it influences how you perceive me and how you respond.So you can't make me assent to your proposition? Sounding a bit like an incel not able to make a woman attracted to him.
>>84721847>Everyone here is young. People leave and move on, in timeI'm 29, this isn't true right. I really hope this isn't true and I'm the only fuck up loser still here?
>>84722100>I'm 29, this isn't true right. I really hope this isn't true and I'm the only fuck up loser still here?It's not entirely true. I was exagerating. But there's an amount of truth to it. Most anons move on or just use 4chan less often.Some of it is that they get older and have more pressing concerns. Some of it is that a new crowd comes in and makes the old content harder to find. But people here generally do get back to their lives eventually. Even the absolute losers on here benefit from this place, from what I've seen watching around. It's not the same people. People come around for a couple of years, and then I never see any of their type of replies or posts anymore.
>>84721847>As opposed to the gambling machine websites that have personalized contentThose are bad too. But 4chan regularly exposes people to extremist content and views, until they become completely desensitized to it. That changes people, and I don't believe that it's normal or healthy for the mind. It amplifies feelings of alienation and hostility toward normal people.>4chan encourages cognitive dissonence and thinking for oneselfThat's one of the few benefits, but the vast majority of posters still fall into common groupthink patterns, common memes, common phrases... Thoughtful, original posts are rare.>The "violent and hateful rhetoric" is just you being afraid of people taking rhetoric into their own hands and being human rather than drones.I'm not afraid nor offended by it myself. I'm fully in support of freedom of speech and diversity of opinions, but people calling for mass violence against women, dehumanizing women, glorifying killers like Elliot Rodger, that's not simply "being human". That's psychopathic. And sure some people are just meming but a lot of people genuinely feel this way. My primary concern is with the health and well being of these lost young men. I want them to succeed in life, to overcome their struggles, and I don't think festering away in these kinds of communities is conducive to those ends.>Nah. Everyone here is young.Blatantly untrue. A large portion of posters here are 30+.>This place has made my life better and improved my writing, reading, and emotional processing skills.Probably there were other communities where you could have done the same without the toxicity of 4chan. To be fair if you're posting on /sci/, /lit/, etc., it's not nearly as bad as the cesspit that is /r9k/
>>84721847>Like who? All other communities just demand subserviance of the mind. Name one "healthy" community focused on "self-improvement" that is actually okay with wrongthink?It's not really subservience of the mind though. You can keep your controversial opinions, just not share them everywhere. But I agree that there is a tradeoff there, and I wish more platforms had more free speech. As for specific alternatives, honestly I don't really know as I'm not in the market, so you got me there, but I'm sure they are out there, maybe some more positive-minded influencers or youtube communities. I think Jordan Peterson had some good messages before he got all messed up.>Yeah, if I just gave my mind to the normies and let them govern me so I become dependant on them and never learn how to govern myself, I'd surely improve.You're not required to give your mind to the normies. You just can't go on sperg rants about the jews or whatever. Keep it to yourself. It's not hard. It would be silly to refuse the tangible benefits of a community because they don't accept some of your views, when the alternative is no community or an extremely flawed and toxic one.>And this means you believe in a just world, that the juice is worth the squeeze.No it doesn't.>Neither. Despair and gullibility are both vices.Why is it gullible to believe it's possible to make positive and healthy changes to one's life, to become a better and happier person? You think that's futile? What would you do then?>They are people, not tools to be wielded.Never implied people are tools. But if you have any ambitions beyond eternal loneliness, looking presentable and being confident in yourself goes a long way.
>>84722058>Except when they don't.They virtually always do.>If you say the same exact thing as Chad while looking like an incel, you get ostracized.Potentially, yes, but Chads having more leeway doesn't imply that an incel's behavior has no effect.>No. It's looks, which are random. So, effectively it's random.It's looks and behavior. You can be average or good-looking and still be ostracized if you act like a weirdo. And conversely, you can be ugly and popular if you have a great personality.>And you're trying to pretend that the world is just and people get what they deserve based on how they act. I'm nta, but it's obvious.Never claimed the world is just. Never claimed that you always get out what you put in. I only claim that it's better to try your best than to give up and do nothing.>That was NOT your argument, bro. You were saying people should join communities that enforce doing that shit. Hence why 4chan=badI think 4chan encourages a toxic and unhealthy mindset, and a decent portion of posters should be considered mentally deranged and potentially dangerous. It's not a community conducive to self-improvement.>There's your just world fallacy again. The world doesn't work that way. Never did.Notice I said "can become attainable". I didn't guarantee it. I don't believe in a just world, but I still say it's better to try. You're certainly not going to achieve anything by doing nothing.>Lucidity, mostly. If the world sucks, then it sucks. One should not deny reality just for comfort.Deny what reality exactly? That you're a failure? Most posters here refuse to even put in any effort. They have an attitude of being condemned to failure from birth. Not many people can achieve things without trying.>If it doesn't, then how come saying you have no influence means you have no control?>Then you can't influence it.>Then you control what I think>Pick oneI feel like you must know that you're wrong about this. You don't seem that dumb.
>>84719009Women? Yeah, absolutely anon. Normies cope by drinking, smoking and/or doing drugs. We cope by coming here. It's all very similar coping mechanisms and the root of all our problems is women.
>>84722073>So you can't make me assent to your proposition?>Sounding a bit like an incel not able to make a woman attracted to him.It's weird that you're denying this distinction.If I dress and present myself like a smelly homeless person and try talk to a random girl, do you think that is going to have an effect on how she perceives me, compared to if I dressed well? Of course. How I present myself influences her perception of me. Now, even if I dress well and do everything in my power perfectly, can I control her mind and make her like me? Obviously not.
No. This place is very good, but it's basically a mirror.If you feel like this place is dragging you down, poisoning your mind and corrupting your soul it is only because you yourself are a very bad person. Once you become aware of this fact and accept it you can try to cultivate yourself. To be a man is to have dominion and exercise stewardship and husbandry. God put us here because he thinks humans are cool. Life kind of sucks but you can try to focus on the cool stuff and maybe try to be a good person.Men alone have agency which places us above women. Most problems arise from not accepting what women are. They are, women, they don't possess the ability to be good. Think of them like you would a cat, spider, or plant. Elements of the creation but without the divine spark or soul of man. A rose is nice because it has flowers, but the thorns can hurt you. Cats are cute and fluffy, but if you eat their poop you can get toxoplasmosis. Women have boobs, and because very wicked men(literal devil worshippers) have granted women legal status(entire legal system is fundamentally evil and opposed to God and godliness) they can cause more harm than the rest of nature, but women are still beneath us and part of nature.
