COGNITIVE INFOHAZARDyou never exist, your constantly dying and ur brain reattaches each moment into idea of self. How does this make you feel? are you frightened
fortunately this idea does nothing to me since I'm not an easily manipulated schizo retard
>>84804439>fortunately this idea does nothing to me since I'm not an easily manipulated schizo retardhttps://voca.ro/1hXwyISd4x5g
>>84804434>How does this make you feel? are you frightenedIt's an interesting idea at least but its a poor model and doesn't hold up to reality, it doesn't explain the fact that people have ego deaths or serious brain trauma and amnesia but still regain their sense of self over time what really matters is the underlying thing, what is a self but a narrative; a select constellation amongst a sea of stars being your memories?Anyways the memories are real the self may not be I think you have a point though
>>84804451>two minutes of unfettered schizobabbletoo gay didn't listen
>>84804452And to reiterate it really depends on what you consider a self I also had DID in the past and have always identified more with the sea of stars themselves first and foremost rather than any particular narrative or constellation but is that not a sense of self? I like to believe some are more robust than others some constellations are made up of smaller stars only a specific sample that doesn't give a good picture but a self can exist the same way constellations are real
>>84804451The voice with the lisp and the mouth noises really puts the mental image together of this namefag
>>84804452>it doesn't explain the fact that people have ego deaths or serious brain trauma and amnesia but still regain their sense of self over timewell yes sense of self persists depsite fact memories aren't perfect and we lose functionality in parts of brain. For instance when writing this post out your brain made some complex calculations where it formulated thought-> typed those thoughts out and read it to itself so it sounds great but were you doing all of this "self" or did it just happen?>>84804457https://voca.ro/1HO1GxQSbnGQ>>84804463> consider a self I also had DIDpersisting substrate across your lifespan that has agency>>84804476https://voca.ro/1kv3wVpYIJdl
>>84804451I wasn't expecting you to sound so fat and gay, but the autistic lisp doesn't surprise me.
>>84804498>I wasn't expecting you to sound so fat and gay, but the autistic lisp doesn't surprise me.https://voca.ro/16wR6wtJBlLx
>>84804486>but were you doing all of this "self" or did it just happen?I like to think that I put some thought into my response trying to delve through my memory to be more relatable to you and using an eloquent analogy so yes I think I consciously directed effort into doing it maybe your dilemma just boils down to whether you believe in free will or not?
>>84804506>I like to think that I put some thought into my response trying to delve through my memory to be more relatable to you and using an eloquent analogy so yes I think I consciously directed effort into doing it maybe your dilemma just boils down to whether you believe in free will or not?>your memory is triggered by certain stimuli though so words i wrote were ones that triggered certain memory that allowed ur brain to use them to formulate a thought. avg person probably knows idk 25k-50k words depending on the education one gets and no one is traversing every word in that list consciously picking right one. Overall it makes no sense to believe that verbal ability is something u have direct control over when you realize how actually complex it is in reality you just get feeling telling you, that you did it. >whether you believe in free will or not?well free will doesnt exist there's control and feedback control but none of us are outside influence of causal relationship in universe
>>84804531Then maybe not OP, but if you suppose and move forward with the assumption that free will does exist which it does from the perspective of a person, even if its an illusion that doesn't necessarily mean its not real nearly everything that exists is an illusion that's how human cognition works then there definitely is a self, what else is doing the choosing?Again it's really a matter of perspective, you keep on looking at the world through a detached universal perspective but its not the only valid perspective that exists.
>>84804486>do you go out of your way to make fun of deformities Like Fulton Sheen once said on his old TV show in his analysis of humor, apparent incongruity is funny. A man falling and tumbling over is funny because we imagine man upright. It's especially funny when a proud and haughty man tumbles and falls over. Because man is the most perfected form possible as a result of fine-tuning and being made in the image and likeness of God, man's imperfections make us laugh. You can extrapolate from the earlier example to get the idea. Hearing someone with a shitty microphone hurr-durr his words while also pretending to be some wise orientalist mystic is really funny. >wasting precious timeIf I could make, or retain, a single moment of time then I might worry over it but it comes to me as mere gift. Thinking I could be a lawful possessor of time is as absurd as believing I can own the sun or the moon.
>>84804567>even if its an illusion that doesn't necessarily mean its not real nearly everything that exists is an illusion that's how human cognition works then there definitely is a self, what else is doing the choosing?give me an example of you having free will?Anon you posted this post so let me ask you following questions1)what drove you to post2)did the thoughts arrive or did you consciously pick the brain idk for 1 hour picking every word in your vocabulary3)did intention arise or did you pick intention to submit this postat one point was there some person here in this process where self existed?was it reader, writer? the emotions that arose when you saw post or intention to post?>>84804579>A man falling and tumbling over is funny because we imagine man upright. It's especially funny when a proud and haughty man tumbles and falls over.so i made you feel small so in order to feel better about yourself you chose to pick on something i have no control over due to size of my tongue.>If I could make, or retain, a single moment of time then I might worry over it but it comes to me as mere gift. Thinking I could be a lawful possessor of time is as absurd as believing I can own the sun or the moon.if you were self aware you'd realize that moment where you wasted on negative posting could've been used to post positively but im trying to influence u to not repeat this behavior of bullying others since it does no good to anyone. feelings were hurt and it made you feel good
>>84804620"We don't see the full machinery of our minds" is not the same as "we don't exist". While the decision was not "mine" in the sense that I'm just along for the ride, it was nonetheless made by a part of me. I just have much less control over it than I would assume. With conditioned ground, you can make somebody do anything.
>>84804620I don't care about time because it's not mine to "spend" or "waste." Believing it is would be absurd because I cannot create or retain moments of time, and would just be high-cortisol. A fat-tongued mongoloid on a proselytizing enterprise for orientalist horseshit is hilarious, on its own without me or you in the picture, for the reasons stated prior. If you take it personally and can't laugh at it, you're just being gay.
>>84804620>give me an example of you having free will?When I woke up today I was debating whether I should have breakfast today and after thinking about it for a second I decided I will make breakfast and ate breakfast. That's it.As the anon above said you're conflating the argument for whether free will exists to whether we're consciously aware of every aspect in our lives and in control of it, which is obviously not true.
>>84804693>A fat-tongued mongoloid on a proselytizing enterprise for orientalist horseshit is hilarious,why do u find it hilarious? do u find idea too low iq? irrelevant to you?Believing it is would be absurd because I cannot create or retain moments of time, and would just be high-cortisolso you already have no self belief why do you wanna fight me instead of being on my side?>>84804667>" is not the same as "we don't exist"so ur one who's aware? Are u aware of this awareness?> it was nonetheless made by a part of me.so if replaced or destroyed are u less me? and what is this me where is it or what constitutes the me>With conditioned ground, you can make somebody do anything.conditioned what? u can lose ur motor control and thoughts but does that mean u cease to exist?>>84804708>When I woke up today I was debating whether I should have breakfast today and after thinking about it for a second I decided so thr thought of breakfest arrived from somehwere what caused u to have that thought? and why decide one over the other?>As the anon above said you're conflating the argument for whether free will exists to whether we're consciously aware of every aspect in our lives and in control of it, which is obviously not true.so there's a you in control but ur not aware of most of you and have no control. doesn't this seem rather weak foundation of idea of you
>>84804434Is this the same anon who kept asking what the "self" was like a week ago?
>>84805209>Is this the same anon who kept asking what the "self" was like a week ago?No, he doesn't exist because there is no self kek
>>84804999>so there's a you in control but ur not aware of most of you and have no control.There's a me that chooses (free will) but yes its not aware of most of my corporeal subroutines and I have *some* but most importantly executive control. Seems fine by me. What about this is contradictory?
>>84805224>>84805209honest question what would it take to convince anons? whats stopping "u" from believeing this
>>84805238>There's a me that chooses (free will)u choose something but ur not aware of inner working of how that choosing happens but identify with it?>most importantly executive control.executive control is how system being able to do long term goal attainment doesn't correlate to free will. For instance i have executive control to not be led by impulse to spend but save my money anon but why am i saving money, why do i value long term over short term, what value does money have for me are things that lead to goal that executive function acts on. Do not misconstrue effect for cause anon for everything has a condition leading to it.
>>84805271>u choose something but ur not aware of inner working of how that choosing happens but identify with it?Yes. Is this really that complicated?
>>84805239Counter question: what the fuck are you meant to do with this information? Nice, we may not exist. Amaze. You did it. You convinced me I'm not a self but a body with the illusion of self. Ok, now what....? I go around screaming all day? Or would you agree that this doesn't fundamentally alter anything about reality or existence and is just a way to feel smarter than others because you gots that forbidden knowledge?
>>84805239>honest question what would it take to convince anons? whats stopping "u" from believeing thisYou're putting the cart in front of the horse, read what you said again and reflect on it, you're trying to sell a point which is fair but you're not that's different from seeking truth or perspective.A more important question is what would need to be true in real life for you to be not convinced of what you believe in?
>>84804434idgaf about your gay existentialism, I am like an everflowing stream, I am the here and now and this will continue until it doesn't.
>>84805239I don't know what it would take to convince anons, I was just curious if you made that thread because the way this one has gone so far reminds me of it.
>>84805299>what the fuck are you meant to do with this information?okay anons here beat themselves over dating, relationships and socializing so say stuff like im dumb, im just not enough and wallow in misery by believing in myth of this superman like thing in them that is just not functioning well. Now once that myth slowly fades away one will realize damn there's anxiety at this point but why is it happening, who's reacting to it , why does it make this behavior but when one believes in a self they identify with shame,anxiety and all these feelings which is very schizo in a way. See person as conditional machine and try to make practices that gives room to better behaviors not willing it by something that doesn't exist.>>84805280>Yes. Is this really that complicated?ur baiting>>84805307>A more important question is what would need to be true in real life for you to be not convinced of what you believe in?to be honest if there was scientific truth for self or soul or something that exists across your lifetime that can be reasoned out to be self. But no psych, cognitive science or any science has shown this to be true yet. it's called hard problem for a reason>>84805313>I am like an everflowing stream, I am the here and now and this will continue until it doesn't.what part of stream are you?
>>84805337all of the stream, Im just straight flowing my stream
>>84804434ive been never existing and constantly dying since birth according to you, and ive been perfectly fine the entire time so it obviously doesnt bother me nonei think that im too much of a hylic for spirituality to affect me
>>84805360>ive been never existing and constantly dying since birth according to you, and ive been perfectly fine the entire time so it obviously doesnt bother me noneu see this is the thing because u never existed there was never one to die it was all a delusion of mind that keeps persisting story there. There was never one there to be fine
>>84805337>ur baitingI'm not, what is the issue with what you stated identifying with a choice without knowing every single molecule and neural gate that ever opened to explain that choice?You would you also have a problem me identifying something as 'red' when its not clear where orange begins and red ends? What about a human? Humans have 23 pairs of chromosomes right well not downies are they still human?You're being pedantic, this is the way human cognition has always worked we see constellations not stars.>it's called hard problem for a reasonFree will from a scientific perspective isn't even a problem. It's non-falsifiable which means from a scientific perspective there is no answer whatsoever.
what if I pop into existence, leave it then continue to pop into it. I came from the nothing, I return but why cant I return again
>>84804999>so you already have no self beliefBecause I can't create time and space?
>>84805382>It's non-falsifiable which means from a scientific perspective there is no answer whatsoever.how is free will possible when brain, bio and everything else is causal? what part of you lies outside this reality of causal relationship anon?the language ur using now was given to you, your brain was result of millions of years of evolutions, you responded to this post in response to me so every action you've taken so far was conditional>>84805392what's returning? can u explain properties of it>>84805410no cause self has no power over ability to take actions ur respondng to stimuli not some agent in u, that is in control
>>84805465It's always ironic to see someone fully in his own agency using it to deny its existence
>>84805626Yes, it is isn't it? It's always an interesting sight isn't it to see how a soul chooses life.
>>84805626is chat gpt agentic?>>84805636or death
>>84805688>is chat gpt agentic?No. It is just a tool that defers the developers' manipulation of the mechanism they've contrived across the internet and to the consumer. It's like an abacus but with if-then statements. That's also why it's not particularly useful or good.
>>84805347Just don't cross the streams. You know why.
>>84805767u dont understand how llms work dont comment on it then
>>84805825He's right though they're completely deterministic, more importantly though they stop existing after every instance it has no continuity whilst humans consciousness is simultaneously self perpetuating and self annihilating you could argue that its just a hell of a lot more complex but there's still a degree of seperation
>>84805852>whilst humans consciousness is simultaneously self perpetuating and self annihilating you could argue that its just a hell of a lot more complex but there's still a degree of seperationwhere does consciousness go in sleep,Anesthesia or when your knocked out? there's a gap so where does it lie?
>>84805825It's literally a hierarchy of if-then statements is it not
>>84805983It's not a substance in the brain, it's a process the brain follows. Consciousness is not found in a single frame of the universe. It's the difference between frames of your mind, while it is running the process. Disrupt the process and consciousness is equally disrupted.
>>84804434proof? you seem to just be assuming I don't exist despite all evidence pointing to me in fact existing
>>84807214Can you please post your address so our agents can verify you exist, and maybe correct it?
