so now that the dust has settledwhos 4 world cup titles were more impressive?
>>140297002The dust willl never settle between Germania and Italia.
>>140297002>Italy>Two World Cups bought by Mussolini>Germany>Doped in 54So Germany is more impressive.
>>140297002italytwo bought by based st. benito mussolini (he's in heaven btw)one in spain as underdogs and beating argentina, brasil and germanyone in germany (shithole country)
>>140297033we doped in all 4 of oursif you dont juice you lose
2 of the Italians were using players who had played in the 1930 World Cup final, which was already against the rules at the time but FIFA allowed it.
>>140297019this, we are the best allies/rivals ever
>>140297002It doesn't matter because the Roman-Germanic alliance will forever dwarf the rest of the continent>Germany: 4>Italy: 4>Rest of Europe: 4
>>140297002West Germany won one of those, a country that no longer exist. Its like if Brazil anex uruguay and say Brazil have 9 WC
Germany denied Puskas and Cruyff a world cup.
>>140297053Based spainbro. Ze germancucks will never admit their inferiority
>>140297582but what you refer to as west germany, still exists today. Today's Germany was founded in 1949 after we were allowed to have an identity again after WW2. We annexed the German Democratic Republic (what you would refer to as East Germany) in 1990 after the fall of the Berlin Wall and the steady destabilisation of the Warsaw Pact. That is why Germany rightfully inherits the titles of "West Germany", because there is nothing to inherit since West Germany was never a different country to today's Germany.
>>140297002Unbiased but ours ofc. 54 is the most impressive one
For some reason Italy and italian teams in general are always seen as the underdogs and everybody go apeshit when they pull off a win.It's either because the rest of you have a low opinion on us or we're just bretty gud at underselling ourselves to stab at the right moment
>>140298483Compared to whom? And when? Everybody recognizes Italy as a great football nation of course, but the Italy Euro win in 2020 definitely counted as surprising given Italy had not qualified for the 2018 World Cup. Everyone knew they had been kind of unlucky there, but going "failed to qualify" - Champions - "failed to qualify" for three major tournaments is a piece of art indeed. So nobody knows what to think of the national team. Regarding the clubs, I think this is a case of a fall from high being perceived as even higher. Serie A was THE league in the 90s and that legacy is still lingering reputation-wise. But the league eventually wasn't that supreme anymore, so people perceived the teams as "more bark than bite". But that lead to them being underrated by some because they were neither Premier League teams nor Real/Barca (and to a lesser degree Sevilla and Atletico), but had almost equal reputation, higher than most Bundesliga clubs for example. It's like with people ridiculing Manchester United and saying they're shit, but they're obviously still not Wycombe Wanderers tier. Now, Serie A is on a high again - and people are kind of surprisedHistorically, I don't think you were ever regarded as underdogs consistently. I mean, who the fuck would look at a multiple time World Champion and go "yeah, they're definitely the small guys here"? You had two World Cups right away, basically. Same goes for the clubs, everyone knows Inter/Milan and even Juventus are European football royalty and have been for ages
>>140297002I recognize I am biased, but ours are more recent and were therefore won in more competitive eras. Also, many people (not here, but in general) see Italy's first title as a bit tainted by corruption - and they used to rely on Argentinian players in the 30sIf we add other performances in the World Cup, you've got Germany's better overall record and remarkable consistency (until 2018, fml) clashing with Italy's legendary superiority in head-to-head battles, including a World Cup final against Germany and of course the events of 2006 in Germany itself.So it's hard to say, of course. We should all cherish that we can ponder about these things, it's a wonderful rivalry
>>140298726you know, you're mostly right, i guess i'm biased since i grew up during the "decline" phase.However i remember that we were the underdogs in 2006, those were Brasil years, and Germany had an amazing team as well. Nowadays having beaten Germany in the semis is almost as cherished as the final win
in my country eyetalians are universally considered human garbage
>>140297582google maps failed to load again?
>>140298959That's interesting to hear! Because most people here see Germany reaching the semifinal in 2006 as a surprise run - or definitely not a disappointment all in all, it's part of why that tournament is such a myth today (which is why this summer's Euros can only lose in comparison). Italy ended that dream, and people were obviously very sad, but nobody would say 2006 was a choke, far from it. Look at the 2002 German team, it was seen as a pretty weak team individually, and they didn't play amazing football. The only notable players all in all were Kahn, Ballack, and Klose. Germany played a very bad 2004 Euro, and Kahn was seen as too old for peak performance by 2006. But the team played surprisingly well and successful, and that's where new stars (like Podolski) were born. The quarterfinal win against Argentina for example was seen as a surprise on our part, and I know nobody here thought "we're the better team than Italy individually, we're the favorites" ahead of the semifinal against Italy. If anything, people were high on that euphoria and believed that, as hosts, everything is possible now.But I don't want to disagree with you, I can see where you are coming from
>>140297002Italy won one in germany so I guess it's them Germany seems to be more consistent on the World Cup though
>>140299707Ahem, >we won one in Italy as well, 1990. Italy just wasn't one of >our opponents, they lost the other semifinal ... against >you
I'd like to play both germany and Italy in a world cup knockout stage. Absolute kino
>>140299805Thanks, Colombianon. I gotta say, I also think highly of Colombia, and I always expect quite a lot of them for some reason. There's just something to you ...I'd like your "wish" to come true (preferably resulting in a defeat against Germany after a win against Italy, we all gotta be like that), but I guess we have to survive the group stage again firstInsert zoomer skull emoji
>>140297582Contemporary Germany is basically western Germany who conquered eastern Germany get it?It’s a continuation of western German and not eastern
>>140299707>what is italia 90
>>140297002Italy. Germany didn't win their first one when Hitler was still alive.
>>140299726>>140299973yeah, but we eliminated Italy for them in the semis while the tanos knocked out the germans at their own home also after eliminating us. huh, it's like rock, paper and scissors.
>>140297002Italys are literally unironically all rigged, most of their champions league and European cups too, so Germany
Italy won twice by manipulation and theft, nobody (at least not in Croatia) sees those titles from the 30s as something legitimate and deserved. So, 'only' two titles remain (82, 06). In both cases, the Italians beat the teams that everyone was rooting for. I grew up reading journalists crying because of Brazil '82, and because of Zidane, everyone cheered for the otherwise hated France. After all, Italian football has always been hard and boring. People really loved their clubs that have a cult status, but their NT was always kind of a target of ridicule and a bit hated because of the tons of hair gel, diving, hugging, kissing, crying... It's all kind of too much. The Germans here are synonymous with machinery, they simply trample like at the beginning of WW2. Germany has more consistency, a better mentality, they have played in the final more times than Italy. This is not in doubt, although everyone knows that Italy is kryptonite for Germany. Germany is the obvious winner of this match.
>>140297002Both are important, south america will never catch up to our 12 WC
>>140297002In what way? In a underdog way or superior way?
>>140297002shittalian are mostly cheaters it's part of their cultureso i bet germany titles were more honest overall and therefore more impressive
>Two Mussolini titlesvs>Doping scandal>'74 being rigged for the hosts according to Avelange and the pool party incident>Codesal's P in the final>Higuain not being given a P in the finalItaly is more impressive
>>140297002Only 1 non-riggi WC between them. Only high IQ people know which.
>>140297002Brésil 2014 easily to me, no penalties, clear victories, difficult path, last 2 teams at home. Won't be beaten before decades, probably never with theses shitty new formats
>>140304058Chadtalians are mostly cheaters it's part of their culture so I bet their titles were won more intelligently overall and therefore more impressive
>>14030418782
>>140306142heh i have some italian ancestry myselfdescending from a country of corrupt broke losers is nothing to be proud of
>>140306336>Losers>Tied for the most winning euro teamNo wonder brazilians hate gaushos kek
>>140306738>implying football is the only thing in lifealso most people here don't hate gauchos tf are you talking about (my father is from rio grande do sul btw)
>>140300372>>140304187>>140306142>>140306738why are you always so angry in european threads so weird
>>140307311>Tf>Tp
If you're white (high iq) you know Germany is more impressiveIf you're a brown med or sudaca you defend Italy because of your natural fear and inferiority complex in the presense of Germany
>>140309323>presenseNew meme stat just dropped guys
>>140299371>and Kahn was seen as too old for peak performance by 2006Kahn barely played in 2006, that was Lehmann.
>>140297002Germany, Shitaly plays penaltyball
>>140300333But we did, in 1954.
>>140304145Why are argies so mad about the 1990's final? Yeah, Germany got an undeserved pen, but they were also denied a very much deserved pen earlier in the match, and throughout the entire game Argentinia had zero attempts on goal. It was one of the most one-sided finals in world cup history.
>>140298959>underdogNot really, in 2002 you thought you were going to win the WC and in 2006 you lost a few key players but the team didn't change that much. You had a piss easy group and then faced the mighty Ukraine and Australia (which got refballed). You passed it off as being underdog because it would have been humiliating to lose to them.The real first challenge was Germany but they always choke against Italy and then Zidane who decide to fuck it up for his team after carrying it to the final.Maybe you were just too young, but the underdog thing was just a meme because you like to anti jinx yourself and that's it.
I unironically love our rivality with the krautbros our matches always get me really hyped I hope we both become decent again
