Bolt up!
/myvikies/ make ya seethe, didjya??
I miss this little dork like you wouldn't belief
>>157950181thats gay af frfr
You guys are so mad at the Ram, the 17-0 repeating the owl Rams.
The 3-0 raiders
>>157950194this cant be real please god no
>>157950176My Chargies!
My Chiefs are the best team in the AFC.>B-but the Jags!Lost to the team we blew out.>B-but the Bills!No defense and we own them and you know it.Stop ranking us below shit teams.
Kangz gottem seething today.
>>157950194keek
embarrassing desu
If you were Caleb's friend, would you advise him to sit out vs the Eagles defense too? That's what they pay your backup / stunt double for
>>157950216if you beat the brakes off the Raiders than I might give you a higher ranking but until that happens the Raiders are the Best in the AFC West
>JJ has chosen the #7>Because 7 ate 9
>>157950227>Stafford that high>Dak that high
>Let Devin Lloyd walk>The guy that replaces him is even betterhow the FUCK does Coen do it?
>>157950227Stat Padford is hilariously overrated >>157950234Is Johnson holding him out of this game to save face?
>>157950234this hurts so much
>>157950234Jalen Hurts may have a career day against that secondary, Caleb wouldn't be sitting out unless he absolutely needed to
>>157950240You don’t actually believe that, they won’t even be #2 in the division when the season is over
>>157950172there's a reason i call them the jesterguildthey're all like this>Green Bay Packers2011: Lost in Divisional Round to the New York Giants2012: Lost in Divisional Round to the San Francisco 49ers2013: Lost in Wild Card Round to the San Francisco 49ers2014: Lost in NFC Championship to the Seattle Seahawks2015: Lost in Divisional Round to the Arizona Cardinals2016: Lost in NFC Championship to the Atlanta Falcons2019: Lost in NFC Championship to the San Francisco 49ers2020: Lost in NFC Championship to the Tampa Bay Buccaneers2021: Lost in Divisional Round to the San Francisco 49ers2023: Lost in Divisional Round to the San Francisco 49ers2024: Lost in Wild Card Round to the Philadelphia Eagles2025: Lost in Wild Card Round to the Chicago Bears>Minnesota Vikings:2012: Lost in Wild Card Round to the Green Bay Packers2015: Lost in Wild Card Round to the Seattle Seahawks2017: Lost in NFC Championship to the Philadelphia Eagles2019: Lost in Divisional Round to the San Francisco 49ers2022: Lost in Wild Card Round to the New York Giants2024: Lost in Wild Card Round to the Los Angeles Rams>Chicago Bears:2010: Lost in NFC Championship to the Green Bay Packers2018: Lost in Wild Card Round to the Philadelphia Eagles (Double Doink game)2020: Lost in Wild Card Round to the New Orleans Saints2025: Lost in Divisonal Round to the Los Angeles Rams>Detroit Lions:2011: Lost in Wild Card Round to the New Orleans Saints2014: Lost in Wild Card Round to the Dallas Cowboys2016: Lost in Wild Card Round to the Seattle Seahawks2023: Lost in NFC Championship to the San Francisco 49ers2024: Lost in Divisional Round to the Washington Commanders
>>157950246the last time the Bears played the Eagle they ran the ball for over 300 yards...until the Eagle can prove they can stop the Bears running game any qbs will do as the game manager
>>157950227Why is gayleb even near this list?
>Dolphins-Raiders is a toss-up>Raiders are a get right game for the Chargers>Saints will d-d-definite beat the Raiders>THE CHIEFS WILL GET THEM THIS TIME
>i HATE the chiefs and will spam 12 hours a day for years on end but i would NEVER EVER EVER say "THANK YOU GLORIOUS BASED PHILADELPHIA EAGLES AND THE ONLY GOOD COAST IN THIS COUNTRY FOR DESTROYING THEIR CHANCE AT A DYNASTY"You never asked yourself what people who post under an american flag seethe about the east coast that much?hint : it's not white flyovers, they're spiritually east coast
It’s legitimately ridiculous how much hate Jalen Hurts gets when there are far worse quarterbacks than hi.
>>157950294because he's their DEI choice, black and gay and plays for a raped franchise
PLEASE ALLOW ME TO INTRODUCE MYSELFI’M A MAN OF WEALTH AND TASTE
>tfw flushing a Raidturd
>>157950302Gaylen squirts doesn't deserve to have been in 2 superbowls, but at least he's decent in them.
>>157950261Cousins is fighting for another huge contract with another team and all he needs to do is win that division to secure another huge contract
>>157950227It is very clear that people dont actually care if a guy is good at processing. If you can sling it and have hype moments, you are top five no matter how many stupid game losing decisions you make.
Packers own your shit team and have a rich history of chips and bowl wins. You are proud owners of your very /ownsuperbowls/ wins.
Are the injuries worse for this early in the season or am I hallucinating?
>>157950320So mad
>>157950270All I get from you is that you're an autist that obsesses over a division that your team isn't even in 24/7. Take your meds.
>>157950320Terrible cope.
$55M/yr btw
>>157950227It's hilarious how people still won't admit that Purdy is a good QB
>2026>the fucking raiders are a better team than everyone in the jesterguild>they haven't even unleashed their actual weapon, they're still using cousinfucker
>>157950326praying for my eagles desu
>>157950227herbert is a bust and so too are bo nix and maye
*continues being the best quarterback in the nfl in your path*
>>157950320kek you wild for this oneevery hotel got that SKOL chair
>>157950343That’s not ryback
>i have a dogshit team in the worst dogshit division in football but we deserve your respect!!!! we've been worse longer than ANYONE else in football>STOP CALLING US OUT WHEN WE SPAM, STOP TELLING EVERYONE HOW RAPED WE ARE
>>157950343He lost to Blo Dix
>>157950227Dak’s choke yesterday is one of the most unclutch games I’ve ever seen. I’m not taking him top ten period>>157950337He should be where Stafford is
>>157950337This. As an Eagles fan I am a big hater of the guy, but even I have to admit he has been killing it so far. I feel like people down him using his draft position similar to what they do with Hurts.
later frens
>>157950354Casey fuckin’ Ryback?
>je*terguilders are now false flagging as other jestoids because of how exposed their dogshit their division is
>>157950358Even taking the most unfavorable view possible he's better than 6-10 on that list
>>157950358>Dak’s choke yesterday is one of the most unclutch games I’ve ever seen.many such cases
We're still missing our strongest soldier
>>157950367You better wake your ass up in 5 hours to watch duhhhhh burrs lose or we’re aren’t friends anymore
Facts:1. People only shit on Goof because he's white.2. If JJ takes any snaps from our boy Jameis we fucking riot
>>157950340Yes both teams have problems. Caleb is out and Jalen has to give the ball to new guys.
>>157950380>cries after getting drafted to the taints
Doubt the Rammies at your own peril
>>157950356wasn't his fault + threw 4 TDs on bo nix last december
>>157950227Fixed
>>157950390>People only shit on Goof because he's white.They shit on him because he's a statue prone to have some of the most hilarious meltdowns in the game
>3pm>resident autist schizo finally wakes up>immediately spams cringeyikes!
>>157950431senor you've finally shown up! thoughts on the eagles destroying the queefies in the superbowl?
>>157950429I like this list better simply because IFman isn't on it
>>157950390This pic is fake, Goof wears number 16
>>157950429Mahomes is not 1 right now. and Trevor lawrence should be above RG5 and Caleb.
>>157950431He has like exactly 1 meltdown game a season. Loins lose almost everything because they haven't bothered to have a secondary in over a decade.
>>157950443>wakes upHe just got home from middle school.*
Do not reply to Chikaner. He is a mindbroken self hating brown neet from /int/ who thinks /sp/ is a colony for race wars and uses multiple vpns>what does he do?He spends his entire day on 4chan. He ban evades. He will support the most “white” team despite him not caring for sports.>why do they call him Der Chikaner?He tends to use a Kraut flag most of the times and he once accidentally posted the Spanish ñ with “ñlife.”>tldr?Imagine barneyfag 2.0 but a selfhating brown.https://archive.4plebs.org/sp/thread/145092306/#q145093216https://archive.4plebs.org/sp/thread/148878677/#148879314
>>157950227>justin herbert even on this listYou'd be hard pressed to argue he's even a top 16 QB. Herbert is on this list because he's "supposed" to be good, and people conflate what's supposed to be with what is.
>>157950456>Mahomes is not 1 right nowYou can’t rank a QB who’s 0-4 to another QB in the playoffs over him, sorry. That simple
>>157950467they have laws to keep him away from such institutions
>>157950337They still think that because Garoppolo won with them, that means a quarterback for the niners is incapable of being a good player.
>>157950408Those were tears of pure joy and elation.
>>157950503The reffies are #1 and always will be
>>157950294Because he made 2 or 3 crazy throws last season.
Number 69 is cummmming to save new york football
This nigga is elite. My Saints literally could not stop him. Why couldn't he just sit out one more game?
>>157950503>right now
The numbers and opposing offensive gameplans suggest he's elite in coverage already.
>>157950300I hate Nick Sirianni's faggot ass fake tough guy act as he blames his coordinators for everything, and I hate Hurt's "Reads Meditations once and thinks he is a master of stoicism". That being said, the Chiefs are worse so thank you.
>>157950541That hairline though...
cheesebros... we are the laughing stock of the internet how do we cope? should we just give in and join skol nation???
kek burrsfags are still too ashamed to post here, they're hiding out on /mlb/ and spamming
>>157950227Bryce Young literally leads all QBs in yards by the way but sure let's suck off Justin Herbert and Drake Maye some more for being talentless losersIf Young beats the Lions next week he better crack top 10
Best TE group in the league
There’s literally nothing wrong with being a “system quarterback.” The (((people))) who turned “system QB” into an insult are the same (((people))) trying to convince everyone that mobile QBs are inherently better. A lot of these mobile QBs rely on athleticism and improvisation instead of consistently reading defenses and executing within structure, then get elevated by a league that increasingly protects quarterbacks from contact. Take away the scrambling, bailout plays, cockiness, and constant showboating, and suddenly you’re left wondering how many of them can actually run a real offense. “System QB” was never the insult they think it is.
>>157950576Both Young and Goff have been leagues better than Bustin and Gaye.
>>157950552>O-okay maybe not all time, but in this specific moment in time, I feel euphoric!Until Allen proves he’s better than Mahomes by so much as even making a super bowl, he can’t be called the best. He has to prove it
>>157950541It's insane how explosive he is i'm watching the sants raiders condensed replay right now this guy just gets the ball and bursts 10 yards forward somehow what a unit.
baker will be out for 3 weeksrookie jalon daniels will start for tampa
Great sport.
>>157950571Which one is manlover?
>>157950576Bryce Dung isn't even the best QB in his own division.
>>157950541why not just go all bald why do the comb over...chicks dig the bald head
6 combined tight end touchdowns in the Saints Raiders gameIm thinking that’s a TEgami
>>157950601That's called unselfish play. It's commendable.
when will they stop giving jesters primetime slots?
>>157950601>kneeling up by 25, soon to be 31Kek
>>157950601There's 9 minutes left, why take a knee?
>>157950601That's just good football fundamentals right there
Team of Destiny >The referees nearly gifted the Dallas Cowboys a win with an awful pass interference call that set the Cowboys up on the Ravens 2-yard line trailing by 3 points with 23 seconds left in the game. Dallas ultimately didn't score a touchdown, kicked a field goal to tie, then inexplicably allowed the Ravens to easily pick up 27 yards in 6 seconds to give Tyler Loop the opportunity to boot a game-winning 56-yard field goal, which he did. The team that should have won did win, and that doesn't always happen in the NFL so we should be grateful for that.
>>157950601>>157950624>>157950627Really makes you think, doesn't it?
>>157950627Because it's the jags. There's always the potential to fuck up catastrophically lurking there somewhere. Just burn the clock and don't throw the ball to the other team.
The Chiefs are about to win a close game against the Raiders and it will be marred by accusations of refball. The Raiders will jump to a comfortable 2 score lead in the 3rd before allowing 21 unanswered points in the 4th.
Why does Bo Nix forget that he is a staring NFL QB the first half of football games? It’s like he suddenly remembers late on the third quarter that he is the person in charge of throwing the ball Haven’t seen anything quite like it before
>>157950621You stopped calling us Leadheads because it sounded too cool. Don't think I forgot you seething kek.
>>157950601This is what would've happened if these teams met in Foxboro in the playoffs last season and everyone with an opinion understood this except Gaytriots fans lmaoThe only Super Bowls more Mickey Mouse than Seattle last year are both of Philly's
>>157950541I'm thinking this dude is packing 13 inches
>>157950583holy trvke>>157950601he did an even more bullshit thing against the queefs last herehe's simply Blessed
>>157950583Everything in culture is race war by proxy with.various degrees of seperation. When someone says they like a pocket passing system qb on a fundamental level they are saying they want a white nation that is orderly and systematic. When someone says they like a mobile qb who thrives in chaos they are saying that they are a nigger worshipping communist who worships satan and is addicted to jewish semen. On a subconscious level even the dumbest people know this to be true.
>>157950655i called you leadheads an hour ago>>157949726nobody thinks being such a shithole you use lead pipes is cool
>>157950580Look at the Ballsacs on those dudes
>>157950640The 0:01 thing is funnier since they showed a Michishit fan wearing a 0:01 shirt right before iowa beat them with 0:02 left in the clock.
>>157950627To fuck me on fantasy. Lucky for me, my opponents team sucked
>>157950660>both of Philly'sI don't know what your definition of mickey mouse is because the first was a close game and the 2nd was a one-sided blowout
>>157950655Leadhead thinking it's a compliment and not an insult lmao that's that Flint Michigan water running through you
>>157950649They weren't going to score 30 points in 8 minutes.
>>157950601Look at the jags last like 10 games i'm pretty sure lawrence is sick of his second string defense giving up garbage time points and making it look like it wasnt a 2024 detroit lions-tier ass raping
>>157950672>>157950681It seems our superiority is causing some controversy.
>>157950660How was Seattle’s ring Mickey Mouse? They were easily the best team in the league. The most dominant team winning the Super Bowl is not “Mickey mouse”.
GIANTS SUPER BOWL BACK ON
>The only Super Bowls more Mickey Mouse than Seattle last year are both of Philly'ssanchez seething
Jameis, Jaxson & JJ might be the funniest QB room of all time
>>157950720They should have played Bo Nix and the Broncos
>>157950723Just turned on your Nintendo? He he he.
Chikaner melty
>Once again, Payton benefited from something outside his control, this time a terrible pass interference call on what should have been a game-winning interception by the Rams. Instead, Denver kept the ball and scored a game-winning touchdown a few plays later.>Oh, and Bo Nix isn't very good. Denver won despite Nix completing just 50% of his passes for under 200 yards with an interception.
>>157950731I don't think you know what a Mickey Mouse ring isBeating the GOAT at the height of his power is literally the farthest thing from a Mickey Mouse ring
>>157950716trvke
>>157950737TRADE: Vikings trading QB J.J. McCarthy to Giants for 2027 fifth-round pick.
>>157950732throw in Scattapoo's quest for CTE and you have yourself a retard rodeo for the ages
uh ohh spammy is getting ratioed again
Drake Maye sucks
>>157950601>Move the chains>set your team up to score>burn even more clockI don't see the problem.
>>157950754Shut up faggot. Stop trying to ruin my joke
>talked so much shit to my Cowboys fan coworker todayPlease don't karma me God
>>157950774What are you talking about? Every single interception he has ever thrown has been Mike Vrabel’s fault. Look how much better the Titans are doing now that they got rid of that Tannehill babby
As a neutral observer I say choofs 77 chokeland 2
>lost cause year, projected to be worst team in the league by far>don't trade the one worthwhile player you have for some picks, instead send him out to get career ending injury
>>157950780>domination>Needing reffieball to beat the lolphins
>>157950746i'm making fun of his post and his modus operandi for seething about the east coast and the PNW (spiritually east coast)
>>157950795Tfw cant talk too much shit to normies about sports in real life because they can't take the banter.
>>157950807trey mcbride didn't get injured though
>>157950809>Needing reffieballyes, that is what queefs domination is all about
>Receiver pulls you into him>He flops>You still manage to make a game ending interception>Get called for DPI and lose the game because of it
>>157950815>spiritually east coastNot even a little bit.
>>157950571Let em talk. Packers will rally and get right soon
>>157950807Couldn't be my PACKGODS.Nope, not me!
What NFL team would Aragorn support?
>>157950835same shit happened to the ravens and they just manned up and won the game anyway maybe try harder?
>>157950841you're white, you're spiritually from the east coast.
>>157950848i don't know who that is but probably my team
>>157950583>people compare QBs today with QBs of yesteryear and say "the QBs today are better because they're more mobile!">they literally cannot comprehend that there was a time where QBs could be tackled and weren't treated like children>they think the rules haven't changed at all and that the quarterback's ability to run was invented yesterday There's a reason why guys like Young, Vick and even back to Tarkenton were few and far between. Because you'd get MURDERED if you ran and scrambled consistently.
>>157950842Nah. The lines suffered for having a shit Oline last year and now it is the Packers turn. Get whoever you want on Defense they can't block.
>>157950854Ravens had the benefit of playing against Dak
>one black guy beats up his girlfriend and the packers become shitjamal got revenge on those honkies
When is AJ starting again?
spammy are u okare u okare u ok spammy
>>157950888based
>>157950888No wonder they're shit now. God is good.
>>157950888This isn’t an own. This is a good thing.
>>157950888King shit.
>no pacoswing games>autists flee into /nfl/remember we're gonna have to keep these dogs raped and gaped next year during their lockout
>>157950892once he picks a book to read on the sideline
>>157950176Was the JJ situation really that much of a locker room cancer? It's a shame.
>>157950888Like /sp/?
Fellow lifelong Lions fans since 2022,…. We could barely stop the jets from clowning on us. Why is our defense so shit? We might finish below the packers at this rate.
>>157950797That nigga sucks too
>>157950868It looks rough but it has to improve at least a bit. That being said if they lose to the Bucs I'm finna rope
>>157950888>manloverTold ya
>>157950925>Why is our defense so shit?Because you literally do not have a secondary. At all. And your retard GM does not seem to care.
>>157950888I take back everything bad I said about this man. He's based
By my count east coast or spiritually east coast teams have won something like 29 out of the last 30 superbowls.
>>157950937No it could actually get worse if another Olinemen went down or heaven forbid Tucker Kraft.
>>157950929>beating mutthomes in week 1 was detoilet's super bowlKEK
>>157950921I've donated my semen to many LGBT people but never money to an organization that pushes their agenda. I'd prefer to remain powerless and voiceless because that makes it easier to smash and makes it less likely that any of them will say anything about it. Go Lions btw.
>>157950950/comfy/ & /wholesome/ Gayleb would never!
>>157950963Alaska and Hawaii should share a team.
>>157950950You think he hit it after?
>paco seething about the wionskek
>>157950985That's why Goff will never win. You need to have an asshole streak in you.
>>157950583Get this racist bullshit out of here
>greatest offense of all time they said>raped and gaped by the runts of the jesterguildkek!
>>157950995I think he asked if she had a brother.
Are you all ready for an absolute slurper of a game where the eagles go an entire quarter with 3 and outs but probably end up winning anyway?
In the end it turned to be good he didn't go? Or will the regret come at the end of the season?
>>157950615sleazeball balding owning it >reddit beard basedchamp shaved head
>>157951015He's married and has a daughter
Jordan Love would be ashamed at the NFCN fans hurling homophobic and emasculating remarks at his competitor Caleb Williams for his injury. Be a better human. Be like Jordan Love.
>>157951014He looks like he's aged 10 years since he was in Detroit.
>>157951017They're playing a team with no defense in good weather
>>157951034did I stutter?
>>157951024So was Ricky Martin
>>157951020>regret I mean it wasn't up to him, he was traded
>>157951041I don't know who that is Unc
Why do you hate black excellence?
>nfcn has 3 black qbs despite being 80% white>love is an autist>gayleb is a homosexual bottom>nobody cares enough about the vikings to know anything about kyler murray
>already spent multiple vpns to seethe postyikes!
>>157950856Flattery will get you everywhere.
>>157951047>He doesn't know about 'livin la vida loca'Cmon now
>>157951017>go an entire quarter with 3 and outsdamn, you're really optimistic about their offenseI was expecting a full half
Reminder the rams won the 2025-2026 /nfl/bowl.
>>157951049I'm a small dick chudcel who blames my pathetic excuse of a life on black people even though I live in a trailer park
>>157951053>murray threw a pick and got concussed barely into the first quarter of his first game>replaced by a white QB and he's been 3-0>lost his job to 2026 Carson Wentz
Marcus Mariota can come to the barbecueall i gotta say, what a good weekend this was
>>157951059Oh okay. Really he was gay?
>>157951064Just wait until the defense calls the bluff and run blitzes everytime saquon is under center and they crash the play in the backfield. It'll happen at least 5 times.
>>157951076Why isn't he starting over Glass Daniels? He's better when not getting thrown under the bus like Vrabel is want to do.
>no one is still acknowledging or using his forced le ebin maymaysuh ohhh
>>157951049I have nothing against black people or anything and I wish people would stop labeling me as a racist. I'm not really the biggest fan of mobile quarterbacks and I think they should all be demoted to the UFL and, yes, that includes the ones who've won superbowls and MVPs, because they contribute nothing to the sport and it's all showboating, bad tempers, low IQ play with them and yes I know that's naughty but honestly where's the lie, send them all to the UFL.Just saying!
>>157951070its really funny seeing white states heem other white states black qbs and then thy start white qbsits like they can only start whites if other whites injure them into doing soon paper the NFCN should be a 1488 division but in practice they're more cucked than new england
>>157951081No, he is gay, as in currently.
>>157951076This weekend rocked
Bears fan here. Can I just say fuck the packers except for Jordan Love? I respect the HELL out of him for refusing to make light of Caleb’s injury and his willingness to donate to LGBTQIA+ organizations. A real hero off the field, good thing he isn’t exactly the greatest on it! Just kidding! Roar, bears! Roar!
pacoswingers extra seethy today, one regular season NFL game will overshadow their entire week of playoffs
>>157951076>My team won>All three other teams in my division lost>Fantasy team won
>>157951101amazing weekend for the NFL and for refgodsthe shadow over inferior sports grows larger, only college ball could potentially compete
Baseball fans are higher iq than football fans because most baseball fans are Japanese. Baseball is a better sport.
>>157951045I imagine he's happy he's still with the Raiders at the moment.
>>157951020Ravens eliminate raiders who are playing in Baltimore during the wildcard round. He throws a chimpout after failing to stop the walkoff
>>157951085What the fuck happened to Maye/the Patriots?>cupcake schedule last yearCome on, even with an easy schedule they still beat decent teams last year, and they weren't a god damn punching bag. I wasn't expecting them to just walk all over everyone but good lord they're looking like they're the dregs of the league.
>>157951153Ravens v Raiders would be fire
>>157951145they just cant stand to see a brotha succeed
>>157951145DART IFFY UHHHHNINE STIFFY UHHHH
>>157951145>sktateboo looking confused as fuck lol
>>157951156The schedule thing is valid and my guess is that teams were able to find holes in his game after watching enough tape. Happens all the time. You guys remember how good Stroud was when he came up then a year later teams knew how to shut him down
Most quarterbacks who lose their first Super Bowl NEVER MAKE IT BACK (except Jalen Hurts) Hope you enjoyed your brief resurgence shitriots because it’s back to the basement
>>157951188YeahHere we go
>>157951106Kek
Best guess whats Skateboo's IQ? Some of his physicality is retard strength, it seems
How we feeling, Packerbros?
Not really excited to see Eagles-Bears tonight. The Bears without Gayleb aren't interesting and this year's Eagles don't feel like a real contender.I'm not saying either of these teams suck. One or both could make it to the divisional round but I just can't picture either team in the conference championship.
>>157951156Drake is in his head and doesn't have a receiving core.
>>157951181>look at this tape>see! right there.>yep it's an easy tell, he's throwing the ball, so you can just catch it i swear>no don't worry just pretend you are on his team, he'll throw it right to you
>>157951020Both teams are doing fine. Raiders are definitely still mad about the rugpull but Maxx is still one of, if not the best edge rusher in the league.
>>157951201>No Oline>Wasted all our Draft Picks on a win now move>Now further away from a Super Bowl then before that move>About to fire the coaches>can't even tank for a higher pick
>>157951201
>>157951201He would look better clean shaven.99.99% of people look better clean shaven mmhmmm ‘fraid so
>BRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAP*dumps 30 on you*Nice defense, Dorkside
>>1579512012010 esque miracle run incoming. Screenshot this post
>>157951202The Eagles have the most fraudulent current score. I think they'll be the 2024 Chiefs. Always barely winning through bullshit and basically paper tigers with a high winrate. I fully expect them to make the superbowl and fall apart completely.
>bills on top
