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What the fuck is with LD's first episode, and it a lesser extent its first season? It really feels like Rick and Morty then, but it gets better and better. Did McMahan have to pretend it'd be Trek and Morty to get it greenlit?

>>92501858
did you have to do the shittiest job of rimming your boss in order to get this shit-tier shill assignment? star trek is trip and malcolmb having spaceman problems and solving them with mashed potatoes, it is not cartoon finger gun bullshit monstrosity wearing the blood dripping hide of trek like a hobo trying to get close to lady on a bench by wearing a ghillie suit of dildoes. fuck lower decks.

>>92501858
That seems to have been what happened, because the pace really steadied itself and most people I hear say LD and SNW are better than PIC and DSC by quite large margins.

>>92502143
I think the universal translator is on the fritz again.

>>92502178
LD is consistently funny after if it’s first few episodes. SNW’s quality fluctuates wildly but at its best it equals above average TNG episodes. Both are leagues above Picard and STD

>>92501762
I'm really sorry to see the show go. When the bulk of Trek so terrible right now it somehow managed to be the best they had, a fucking cartoon of all things. It's a shame to lose the show that not only still remembers about the earlier shows but genuinely seems to like them.

Just not psyched where the only thing left sort of worth watching Trekwise is SNWs. I still haven't bothered to watch the entire first season. Just can't really drum up any excitement for new episodes. LD and Prodigy both managed to do that. Ah well, all good things and all that.

>>92503703
The Section 31 movie is apparently going to take place predominately in the Lost Era. While I am not a fan of Section 31 nor Georgiou, there is a chance this opens up the era for exploration by the shows.
As for RPG stuff, STA 2e is just a few months out, anyone else looking forward to getting it?

>>92501762
>Have you ran or played a lower decker?
Personally not yet, but I think my next character will be an ensign.

>>92501858
It is an officially licensed Rick & Morty copy, what did you expect?
No.
No, it is.

>>92501762
>TQ
I’ve had Cali class ships show up in a couple campaigns but other than that I’ve taken very little from LD.

>>92501858
For all their faults the creators seem to be actual fans of older Trek, which can't be said for the creators behind the other shows.

>>92507632
I can look up Memory Alpha too.

>>92509246
Total Romulan death

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>>92501858
>>92502178
Yeah that’s my guess too. The team seems like they needed to almost juke the Paramount big wigs. Like a showbiz trojan horse.
I’m glad they did.
>>92502371
Agreed.
>>92503703
At least it dies with honor.
I’d rather it end early and well, rather than become a zombie and be whored out after it stopped having anything to say.

>>92510955
Interesting. I might have to check this show out. I've only recently gotten into star trek, watching NG. I'd kinda written this show off, at least 50% because I detest this style of animation, the kind that seems to be ashamed of it's own medium and doesn't want to take itself seriously.

>>92509246
Isn't there a singularity in the center of that hole?

>>92511076
I had similar feelings, and season 1 didn’t fill me with confidence.
Thankfully my trekkie friend insisted I push through. Ended up being a damn good watch.
Speaking of - one of my favorite episodes of the series is called Wej Duj and has a plot revolving around the crew of a Bird of Prey. I think it could be a fun little episodic campaign to run for my group, each ‘episode’ resembling the Trek formula but from a Klingon perspective.
Any recommendations on what systems I should look at?
I’ve never run a Trek game so I’m curious how well they run, and especially if they can run Klingons well or if everything assumes Starfleet.
Worst case scenario I’m thinking Death in Space might work in a pinch.

>>92511512
No, the artificial singularity is inside the Romulan equivalent of the warp core, in engineering. The empty space on a D'deridex serves no practical function and only exists because the Romulans wanted to make the ship look big and intimidating.

Hearing that Lower Decks is ending makes me sad.
Let's hope they make their final season their best yet, and that they go out with a bang.

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>>92511555
Fucking Romulans.
So unoriginal they had to call their shit Bird-of-Prey.

>>92510794
yes kill romulans but fuck their women

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>>92511646
Only the finest of final seasons.
And a finale worthy of rewatching.
No less for the great Koala. The Koala will have its due.

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>>92501762
And then the cast comes back as a new live action series.

>>92512335
Not sure it would work out quite as well as the cartoon did. I personally hope it gets picked up by another streaming service and gets at least one more season than DSC.

>>92513673
I can't see it continuing under another streaming service because it sounds like operations are entirely spinning down, however
>gets at least one more season than DSC
it would suck if the reason it was shitcanned is they didn't want the silly cartoon having more seasons than their flagship show that they launched P+ with.

>>92513742
I am sure it is because Kurtzman is livid no one liked DSC. The show had to radically redo itself multiple times because it was not what people expected nor wanted. Same with PIC, it just was not what the fans wanted. LD was viewed very contentiously at first but it found its footing and is now more beloved than either of those two shows because while it is very much a comedy it still strives to show the parts that made Star Trek so beloved in the first place. SNW, while being perhaps even more campy, also strives to do the same. I have no clue how the S31 and Academy stuff is gonna pan out, especially as they are spinoffs of DSC, so probably not well, and all the while Kurtzman will be screaming into his pillow wanting to know why people don't like his ideas.

>>92501762
Everything has to end sooner or later, I guess, but at least we are getting a fifth season and so the showrunners will be able to write a conclusion.

Still holding out hope for the Malcorians to make an appearance.

>>92511555
The Singularity Containment System of the Romulans in TNG seemed vastly superior to the Fed Warp Core. No Diyttrium crystals to mine, no antimatter to make. Containment system is the size of a household fridge, with the door to the freezer box where the singularity is stored.

What were the downside? Other than random time aliens infesting the things every once in a while?

>>92513884
>it still strives to show the parts that made Star Trek so beloved in the first place.

Boimler is very much my spirit animal in this scene.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHVQ2BckZn4

>>92513884
Kurtzman does not give a shit about Star Trek, or any of the other shows he's worked on.
The man gets hired to produce shows on time and under budget (and to move money to specific production companies) and in those terms he consistently delivers.

Whenever the suits make another design-by-committee project that they've attached some old IP to, it's Kurtzman they want.
That Kurtzman does not know or care at all about Star Trek had exactly zero impact on the choice to hire him.

>>92513954
That show has so many scenes that I can just rewatch forever.

I'm honestly glad that it's over after five seasons, we don't need yet another Trek show that lasts too long and runs out of ideas.

>>92513954
The Wadi and their games is an example of a species/culture that you have to wonder how they managed to survive that long. Imagine trapping some Romulans or Klingons in a game as a 'joke', the Wadi homeworld would be glassed within the day.

>>92513884
I don't know what I would have wanted out of a Picard show. I liked the idea of him semi-retiring to run a cadet training ship and have them do basic trek stuff, with him acting as the mentor/instructor to a new generation.

Might be too similar to Star Trek Prodigy.

>>92514435
I feel like the Klingons would be most offended by the concept of "If you die in the game, it spits you back out fine." Where is the honour when there is no risk?

>>92514489
I'm now remembering what made me drop Enterprise. That time where they rescue a Klingon scout ship and when the Klingons threaten to attack Archer's Enterprise with their half destroyed ship he threatens to destroy them and tells them to retreat. And they do. That would have been a perfect moment to showcase the difference in cultures and that Archer had to understand that aliens wouldn't act like humans.

>>92514530
Honestly that's not really unklingon at all though. Klingons have always been completely ready to completely discard the concept of honor entirely if it would nab them some sort of gain, even financial gain. They use honor as a weapon rather than a true-held value system. Worf is an outlier here because he was raised by humans and is overcorrecting due to impostor syndrome the same way Spock did in TOS.

>>92514489
Nah, even Klingons aren't that stupid. Their games and training exercises might severely injure (arm wrestling with knives, for instance), but nothing that can't be patched up eventually with 24th century medical technology. To actually kill someone in a game would be dishonourable as it does not allow the dead to claim a worthy death in service of the Empire.

>>92514530 >>92514722
Even in the context of the honor system, did not Kahless the Unforgettable say, "only a fool fights in a burning house?" The Klingon scout ship was in absolutely no condition to fight and would have gained absolutely nothing BY fighting.

>>92514831
A lot of Klingons are just straight up bullies. It's kind of their thing, written, as they see it, in their genes: they are predators among sheep. The Klingon lawyer hit some of this in DS9 during Worf's trial. But even if two wolves snarl at each other, vying for dominance, one can still back off without coming into direct conflict. I think from the Klingon perspective they lose nothing by trying to threaten their way to victory even if they can't back it up, but they're still okay to back off.

It also helps that a lot of Klingons enjoy talking about honor more than actually showing it. I believe Worf said it best when O'Brien balked at the idea that Klingons wait, cloaked, for rescuers to show up at a damaged ship before attacking. There is nothing more honorable than victory. Imagine, then, what that says about defeat. A Klingon might still attack if there's shitty odds in his favor, since Klingons roll hard with YOLO with a massive side order of Leroy Jenkins, but overall they're usually pragmatic enough to know when to back off and live to fight another day.

>>92511555
>The empty space on a D'deridex serves no practical function
One of the design notes for Federation starships is that the warp field is generated by the radiation passing between the nacelles. That empty space enables the production of a warp field and protects the crew from intense radiation.
Later showrunners have played fast and loose with this rule, but historically this is why Feddie ships were shaped the way they were, and why it makes sense for there to be empty space inside the D'deridex.

>>92513934
Seriously this (though I have seen some try to make the argument that somehow they still needed dilithium for something).

>>92513934 >>92516946
>What were the downside?
It's slower - going to Warp 9.6 causes irrepairable damage to the propulsion systems. I also think it's vaguely implied to actually be slightly less powerful than a Galaxy-class, although only by a matter of inches.

>>92517046
>It's slower - going to Warp 9.6 causes irrepairable damage to the propulsion systems.
I don't recall this detail, but even if it's true I have two thoughts:
9.5 is fast enough for most purposes, so it would make for a decent workhorse
It must be possible to improve upon this limitation with engineering.

>>92513934
>>92516946
With singularities, you create it and harvest from it, but it's a lot harder to control. Matter-antimatter reactions mediated by dilithium means Fed ships have more precise control over the reaction itself, fine tuning it based on the power output they need without wasted power, and being able to simply shut it down. Catastrophic warp core failures are due to breaches in antimatter containment, whereas singularities are more risky.

>>92516946
>One of the design notes for Federation starships is that the warp field is generated by the radiation passing between the nacelles.

This isn't quite true.

Andrew Probert, who worked on TMP and solely on S1 of TNG, claimed that this was Gene's rule, although it clearly wasn't true even of TNG S1, where the Tarellian vessel (which wasn't built for the show but a hired prop), the Ferengi D'Kora class, the Batris/Ornaran freighter (another buy-in) and Type 7 Shuttlecraft all have nacelles so close to the body of the ship, or integrated into it, that any "dangerous radiation" as originally vaguely envisioned by Matt Jefferies in the 1960s would have still been a problem. Jefferies also envisioned the engines as quickly replaceable - this has never been shown to be true either. It's really just a concept he had in mind that never really caught on - most TOS ships were blobs of glowy crap, and even the Class F shuttle, DY-100, Eymorg ship and Tholian ships never bothered to put nacelles further out. Having a shuttle that's capable of projecting this dangerous radiation is one thing, having the thing that emits it be a step hazard is insane. So they're quite safe, or it wouldn't have been done that way (in fact, it was done that way on the 3 TOS movies released between Probert's two stints on the franchise, though the way he tells it the change didn't come until Gene Roddenberry stopped acting as TNG showrunner).

>>92517373
>>92516946
It's definitely something that Matt Jefferies considered when designing the TOS Enterprise, but it's not something that's ever been particularly true, or made a great deal of sense. In fact radiation shielding, as in particles and gamma rays, is quite good in the TOS era - as seen in Wrath of Khan, an inch-thick clear "glass" can contain it safely. Heat can't be an issue because of the arrangement of shuttle nacelles in the same era. And warp fields (aside from the visible warp bubble created inside the Enterprise-D engine room by Wesley Crusher, which is *totally safe*) are generally displayed as field lines in the style of a magnetic field line, meaning they not only surround the ship, but permeate it - which makes sense, you don't want your FTL engines to fly off at superluminal speeds and rip the ship apart from a standing start, and you don't want to create a black hole by accelerating normal mass, untouched by the warp field, anywhere near the speed of light.

>>92514488
I don't think we needed a PIC show in the first place but since we got one I would have preferred it be more a political thriller one with far less action, with Picard being maybe an ambassador. Stewart said he did it in response to Brexit, so we could have leaned into that with maybe one of the Federation's members leaving right at the start of some major conflict?

>>92502143
This. Fuck your purposefully bad bullshit. Stop killing peoples gods.

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>>92519354
Get back in the damn wormhole, The Sisko!

>>92507632
I got that vibe, too. They actually speak about Kirk and Picard with respect and appreciation rather than just calling them old and racist.

>>92516717
Yeah this is what I meant about klingons not really treating honor as a value system. Cultures that actually care about honor view an honorable defeat as far superior to a dishonorable victory. The klingon worship of victory is fundamentally incompatible with honor, which is also very consistent with the way klingons behave in both TOS and TNG eras, especially the neverending stream of bullshit from the High Council for the entire duration of TNG and DS9. The whole honor thing is mostly just window dressing for internal klingon conflicts. Outsiders don't get any.

How much of this is deliberate and how much of this is American writers not really understanding how honorbound societies work is kind of up in the air, really. Warcraft orcs, for example, behave exactly the same way, with honor being discarded the moment it becomes inconvenient.

>>92519776
Encounter at Farpoint actually has a moment where Worf, a starfleet officer, tries to say he can't leave the bridge during combat because he's a Klingon, which is like, dude, if you don't see the optics of that, I don't know what to tell you, and that's two episodes before "Code of Honor". Racist as hell, that was Gene's vision for Kirk and Picard. Just the two straight men in the room while a comedian turns the air blue with racist jokes. Berman taking over was the best thing that could have happened to TNG.

Shit, Gene blew his load on Q in the first episode, then because he was totally out of new ideas did a remake in the second episode, then introduced Pool Noodle Dick Species with their one-time Spaceship Erection trick in the fourth. The whole first season is a disaster but the first half in particular is *awful*, the number of TOS rehashes - yes, "The Battle" is a new story but it's also just the same "older officer loses it on the bridge" story that imperilled Our Heroes so many times before. He's got Q back for diminishing returns by episode 10!

>>92520141
What the fuck happened to make you like this?

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>>92520235
not enough hard lovin'

>>92523880
If she hadn't been a noble do you think she would have been a holo-porn star?

>>92520024
Have you considered that what humans consider honor and what Klingons consider honor, while similar, are fundamentally different in several key aspects? See Worf teaching how to be Klingon

https://www.youtube.com
/watch?v=qChmTbcaU44

>Warcraft orcs, for example, behave exactly the same way, with honor being discarded the moment it becomes inconvenient.
Yeah, see, you've just described a fundamental aspect of people who claim, as an example, to be morally superior or "guardians of culture" who either live very differently to their claimed ideals in private or flip-flop whenever it's convenient. I'd consider a lot of religious authorities to do that, and use them as an example as they tend to treat their religion, at least in how they talk about it, how Klingons do their honor. Politicians often do this too, but who expects those guys not to be two-faced hypocritical assholes? See: the Klingon High Council

Still it is far more likely that the Klingons, as a matter of cultural evolution, aren't as rigid as you perceive them to be but allow for more complexity having all kinds of rules which allow them to save face when necessary. Having these kinds of outs might be considered hypocritical by you, but would be very useful as pressure release valves that otherwise keep their society from self-destructive behavior. Consider, for instance, that Klingon Houses can have hereditary enemies. Their honor does not demand the Houses solve their problem by throwing all their warriors at each other until one, the other, or both are destroyed, along with all the potential collateral damage (which can be extreme since Houses have their own allied Houses). The reality is their social rules allow them for centuries long hatred with only occasional flareups of open conflict. That it allows for scheming and daggers in the back is besides the point, since that's people in power looking the other way.

>>92524990
Silly anon. She was both! I encourage you to view Ten Minutes in My Sacred Chalice of Rixx. An instant classic.

>>92525002
>>92520024
It also helps to remember that what Jadzia said about Klingons:

O'BRIEN: Serving on a Klingon ship is like being with a gang of ancient sea pirates. You advance in rank by killing the people above you, so everywhere you turn you're surrounded by potential assassins.
KIRA: but that's crazy. How can a ship function like that?
DAX: It's not quite that chaotic. The social and military hierarchy of a Klingon vessel's very strictly enforced. A subordinate can only challenge his direct superior and only under certain conditions.
BASHIR: What sort of conditions?
DAX: Dereliction of duty, dishonourable conduct, cowardice.
O'BRIEN: Cowardice? A Klingon?
DAX: It's been known to happen. The Klingons are as diverse a people as any. Some of them are strong, and some of them are weak.

If we don't allow Klingons to be as varied as humans we're ultimately doing them a disservice, making them smaller and less complex than human characters. That's bad.

>>92501762
Glad rick and morty trek is expiring

>>92524990
It's a sacred calling on betazed.
She was a top class one. Specialist in Deltan diplomacy dickings. A damn fine ambassador.

>>92525002
In human societies where honour might be considered to be really valuable there were outlets to end feuds without bloodshed - like weregild - or just plain people who weren't as hardcore about it as pop culture depicts them - the samurai film genre's based on old stories about ronin wildin' around and being menaces to society instead of soduko'ing themselves like they should've.

And even in the context of Star Trek we've got Starfleet personnel struggling to live up to their ideals. We don't expect humans to be perfect even in the sexed up turbo communist space future of the UFP. There's no reason to expect the Klingons or any other species to be perfect either.

Even species that were supposedly genetically hard-coded to be a certain way like the Vorta and Jem'hadar didn't stick their One True Way 100% of the time.

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>>92520235
Gene was a racist, sexist idiot. He had one good idea and that was for a wagon train show at a time when those were popular. The idea got taken away from him before it ever hit screens, collaboratively remade, all the key concepts you associate with Star Trek came from other people. He literally destroyed the show twice on its first run through being an idiot. He kept Phase 2 off screens by being an idiot. TMP nearly died in the crib, smothered by Star Wars and Superman, both of which had better special effects. It could so easily have been forgotten as a franchise. The people who worked on it saved it - not Gene. The only person still singing Gene's praise this century - other than the muted "dad was complex, like all humans" shit from his kids - is Probert, who barely worked on Star Trek at all, certainly not on setting key design elements of the show or movies. He just drew some pictures according to a brief.

The whole thing about Star Trek is that from the beginning it has been collaborative. At the point at which Gene looked like going three for three on cancellations, they took the show from him - because Paramount were investing a million dollars an episode in it and must have been pretty worried he was going to crap out another blackface episode without telling them - and made it better. That's the TNG you remember. And a lot of it? Still shit. Just monster of the week, rubber goon face pre-filmlook 90s shit. People were complaining when it was new, they complained when it was on, they complained when it finished and then complained about the movies and the other shows.

But really you need to ask yourself: are all these complaints simply arising because the show itself is conceptually bad? Because the fans just lap up what they already saw and treat anything new with suspicion? Or is it both those things.

>>92525881
I imagine the thing with Klingon society is that you're only ever as big as your last victory. Thus defeats are easy enough to deal with as long as you can still manage to win a fight afterward. If you can capitalize on that and build it up to even bigger future victories all the better. That and Klingon leaders trying damned hard to ensure that any news of defeats or retreats, sorry, rearward advances never spreads very far. That Klingon on his ship is probably safe from his crew. None of them want to step up and try to fight because they know it's a losing hand, plus nobody wants to spread the story of how they served on a sucky ship that lost to humans. That won't look good on anyone's resume if it were widely known.

I also remember the Rotarran. While Martok's favored ship became pretty storied under his leadership up to that point it was actually considered cursed by the crew having suffered a string of defeats to the point where not only were they demoralized but they were starting to turn on each other. From what I recall the strong of defeats started when the Dominion chased the Klingons out of Cardassian space, which itself proves that the Empire won't as a whole won't just stand around fighting until they're ground to nothing but know when to pull back and live to fight another day. It also takes some time before the Klingons started to fall apart, so they can handle it to a degree albeit not forever. The ship's turnaround should be legendary since they'd later go on to a string of victories under the future Chancellor, even igniting a damn sun to burn their enemies to ash and severely hamper the Dominion fleet building efforts - and that was mostly done to get some dude's wife into stab heaven!

>>92526988
This pic of LeVar Burton is just pure gold.

>>92527156
Uhm, excuse me, that's The New Spock to you.

>>92525002

I've heard an argument that the Klingon honour system is one of 'external' honour, a tool to measure one's standing amongst peers. By adhering to expected behaviour, you receive respect from others. Act outside of those norms, and be rejected by them. This relies on there being a commonly accepted standard, and an individual or whole group can be stripped of their honour for the actions of someone else.
This differs from 'internal' honour where an individual sets themselves a code of behaviour and adheres to it. Through that adherence, and challenges to that adherence, that individual is considered to be honourable by others but their honour cannot be stripped from them by decree.

Klingon concepts of honour make far more sense when you remember how strong their traditions of oral storytelling and theatre still are. What's "honourable" is whatever will make for the best opera in the centuries to come. And any story can be spun however you want, if you're the only one telling it.

>>92525505
And once again, Lower Decks has a great example of a complex Klingon who fits in perfectly with their values while still having his own take on them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPQof8OySdM

Side note, anyone who watches this scene and then bad-mouths Lower Decks as not being Star Trek is a retarded faggot who has never understood Star Trek.

>>92527262
If that were true then Klingons wouldn't be so upset at others behaving dishonorably, or species that have no honor, because why would they care about the honor or lack thereof of other cultures? Why would they demand outsiders conform to their standards and treat them as Klingons demand to be treated?

>>92527338
Well, I mean he kind of lucked into the job, had plenty on his crew who hated him (or were at least jealous), but when he had the chance to fight get his ship back he apparently used his goddamn teeth to kill the traitor in command. Ma'ah may be smaller than most Klingons but you do not fuck with Ma'ah.

>>92527484
>Why would they demand outsiders conform to their standards
Idle question...have they, ever? Most of the time that they have which I can think of involved internal Klingon matters that outsiders had simply, through circumstance, gotten involved in, like Quark becoming the head of a Klingon house, or Picard becoming cha'DIch, or Riker serving on a Klingon vessel. An outsider might be involved but it's still fundamentally a Klingon matter going on.

>>92527510
I was more specifically referring to his conversation with Mariner in that scene.

>>92527568
Quite often, and you list examples. While you might say that that's outsiders trying to work within the Klingon system we see plenty of times when Klingons ridicule or insult others for not conforming to Klingon standards. I mean why would they mock Romulans for fighting like Romulans? They're goddamn Romulans. Why does it upset or disgust them that Romulans or Ferengi don't behave like Klingons?

>>92527591
Sure, but Ma'ah is an unusual guy besides. Funnily enough he still played by the rules set out by earlier Trek. I've seen people upset at how he became captain, saying it didn't fit with earlier Trek, but his captain made him XO and therefore legitimized his right of challenge. Ma'ah became captain by the rules, and earned it. The traitors didn't even see fight to challenge him to the death, their mistake for letting him live.

Now the real question is how Mariner was able to boop his Klingon snoot and live.

>>92527612
>I mean why would they mock Romulans for fighting like Romulans?
Why do Americans mock Russians for fighting like Russians? The whole "honor" thing there is a lens through which a more general Klingon hatred for old enemies is focused through. We hate them because they're not us, they're different, they think different, they act different, and everything about them that is different than us is also worse.

>>92527612
Or why they view humans as having worth after they prove themselves very Klingon-like in terms of bravery and honor. Klingons always judge outsiders by their own standards, good and bad.

>>92527651
>Now the real question is how Mariner was able to boop his Klingon snoot and live.
I mean it's still a cartoon comedy show, you have to allow some leeway. Besides, maybe booping the snoot isn't something Klingons recognize as embarrassing or derogatory.

Oh by the way as long as we're talking Klingon honor and internal/external honor, I'm pretty sure the idea originates from SFDebris, so, here's the video essay for reference.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnWOHVOVgFQ

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>>92527674
>Why do Americans mock Russians for fighting like Russians?
A very weird statement. For instance during WWII a lot of people had praise of Russians and mocked Hitler for poking the Russian bear. That was after Stalin had already cut a deal with Hitler and been hated for it, and it didn't take long afterward for them to become the primary villain again in the American narrative. Just ask Rutherford here.

Or do you mean current events where the Ruskies are showing disdain for civilian casualties and using horrific WWII style meat waves regardless of how many of their own people die?

>>92527721
It's a topic that's occasionally brought up here, though frankly one that's largely moot. There is no real internal or external at play. It's just a thing in Star Trek, which ENT pretty much ran into the ground, that every other culture demands or only respects people who behave like themselves. The Vulcans demand humans be dispassionate and logical. The Tellerites hate human flattery and want you to really make them your verbal abuse bitch, daddy. The Andorians demand you respect their traditions and military values. And those are the dudes who founded the damn Federation! The Ferengi respect someone as ruthless and cutthroat in business, the Romulans may salute you if your schemes are enough to match their own. The Klingon wants you to be as in your face and snarling as they are, or they think you're weak. When even the Borg shittalk humanity as being slightly below mid-tier as a species our saving grace is that we're diverse enough that we can be a little bit of everything to everyone and are (haha) able to compromise and embrace differences.

>People of a culture respect others who share their values and don't respect others who don't
Wow big shocker

>>92527934
fwiw the whole premise of Star Trek with the heroic Federation is seeking out new and different life and coming together despite our differences. That's how the multi-species alliance functions, after all. It's also why so many are miffed about the Federation being so insular and self-focused in STP.

>>92527764
>Or do you mean current events
Yes. WWII was a momentary aberration in a century and more of generally disdaining Russians, on account of them being Russian.

There was another, somewhat longer aberrant period from the mid-1990s to the early 2000s, but I think America's general opinion of Russia has been low ever since they started doing things like mass-printing Russian passports and handing them out like candy in northern Georgia in order to justify invading them.

>>92528616
I mean having long periods of generally fearing them during the Cold War hardly seems to be disdaining them. Feels like there's a healthy respect for them and their weapons capabilities, rather than what you are suggesting. Especially odd given the Klingons largely act as Soviet analogs in TOS, most heavy handed in The Undiscovered Country.

>>92528660
>Feels like there's a healthy respect for them and their weapons capabilities
We respected their nuclear weapons. I don't think we've ever really respected their military except in /k/ memes, and those memes died a choking death in 2022. But even before then the closest thing we had to "respect" for their military was a recognition that they were a whole Hell of a lot more willing to use human wave tactics than we were and were willing to suffer catastrophic losses to achieve a goal. But that's less "respect" in the sense of "I feel some degree of admiration" and more respect in the sense of "we need to take this seriously."

>>92528716
What do you consider respect? Praise? Envy? Fear? Respect can come in many different forms.

>>92528741
>>92528716
Hell, the US gov had enough worry about people in the US respecting the Soviets that they established entire committees to hunt these people down, right Senator McCarthy?

>>92511692
>Total Romulan Impregnation

>>92528741
Yeah - I described two in that post you responded to. There's respect in the sense of having a degree of admiration, empathy, or kinship with something or someone, and then there's "respect" in the sense of having deference or caution towards something.

We don't respect Russians in the former sense. We hate the Russians. They are a terrible people living in a terrible land who's main goal in life seems to be to drag everyone down to their level rather than to pull themselves up to something better. And no, I don't just mean Putin and his regime. There's 140 million Russians, if they had any serious issues with Putin they could have removed him from power ages ago. Putin couldn't do what he does without support, or at least apathy, from the majority of the Russian population. Putin is symptomatic of the real problem, and the real problem is the Russians.

And to circle this back around to Trek, that's probably how the Klingons feel about the Romulans. Why do Klingons mock Romulans for fighting like Romulans? Because they HATE ROMULANS. The fact that they couch it in terms of honor and dishonor is just a lens through which that hatred is focused, but the Klingons don't hate the Romulans because they're dishonorable; the Klingons hate the Romulans, and THEREFORE they're dishonorable.

>>92528117
One of the things that bugged me the most about STP, but also Discovery and even to some small extent SNW; is that I just don't see what the Federation actually offers other species that makes joining them worth it.

I place myself in the shoes of a random alien species in STP or Disco and I'd honestly be considering forming my own, smaller alliance with the nearest 6-12 neighbouring species.
Almost all the same bonuses but without any of the downsides.

>>92528847
>We don't respect Russians in the former sense. We hate the Russians
You're making a ton of statements you just expect to be accepted without explanation, context, or any proof. It's bold of you, but doesn't really impress much, I'm sorry to say. For fucks sake I see plenty of praise for Russia here on 4chan and it's become fashionable with certain political figures, too.

Hell, we know there were periods where the Klingons and the Romulans were allies. Even in the TNG era plenty of Houses were willing to fight for the Duras. The goddamn Duras nearly won with their Romulan helpers. You might say, "Well maybe all those Houses didn't know about that pesky Romulan collaboration," and that's probably true, but it's not like the Duras or the Romulans were going to keep that under wraps forever. It's certainly not what the Federation was worried would happen.

>>92512335
Imagine them making a show that's exactly the kind of wacky space comedy people expected The Orville to be when it first came out. Where all the more adventurous trek stuff is treated as secondary to the slice of life of a new bridge crew trying to find their footing.

>>92528811
The only time Americans have had generally favorable feelings towards Russia were either when our interests strongly aligned, such as WWII; or when it seemed like Russia was in the process of trying to become more like America (and thus less like Russia), such as from '89-91 after Gorbachev declared the Cold War over and the Soviet Empire was collapsing largely without opposition from Moscow; or in the late '90s when it seemed like Russia was genuinely moving towards a truly capitalistic, democratic society.

>>92528924
Or when Russia really needed money and the US thought "sure, that's pretty cheap for that much land" and bought Alaska

>>92528924
I really wish that were true right now but it's definitely not playing out that way, especially in Washington, when it comes to helping Ukraine. Israel has F-35s, Ukraine is still begging for as many F-16s as anyone will kindly pull out of mothballs. Seeing all that praise for stopping nearly every rocket, missile, and drone Iran threw at Israel must feel pretty comforting to Ukrainians, too.

Reminds me of what STP was trying to do with the Federation post VOY and completely botched.

>>92528907
>we know there were periods where the Klingons and the Romulans were allies
Yeah, because of the common enemy of the Federation. Politics can make strange bedfellows. Note that this alliance wasn't enough to stop the Romulans from mucking it up, though. The Romulans hate the Klingons at least as much as the Klingons hate the Romulans.

>You're making a ton of statements you just expect to be accepted without explanation, context, or any proof
Well, current Gallup polling of Americans has Russia's overall approval rating by Americans at just 8%, and disapproval rating at 86%. If you check it out...

https://news.gallup.com/poll/1642/russia.aspx

And map of periods of high approval, you can see it maps out pretty well to what I described - periods when America's and Russia's interests actually aligned and when Russians appeared to be moving to be less like Russia and more like America. The all-time high approval was 2002: Right after 9/11 when Russia appeared to be a staunch ally against al-Qaida. But then notice how quickly it cratered in 2003 (Russian opposition to the invasion of Iraq - keep in mind that at the time America's own opinion of the invasion was 79% support), and that it's been trending downwards since 2005. Even in 2013, a year before the invasion of Crimea, it sat at 44% and falling.

>>92529018
You are confusing the opinions of Washington with the opinions of the average American. And frankly not even the general opinions of Washington, just enough members of one dysfunctional party in one house of Congress to paralyze the system.

>>92529056
I wish you were right, otherwise those politicians would be committing political sudoku, but praise for Putin and Russia is becoming quite fashionable for the far right wing. But this is not likely to be a conversation that will end well here.

>>92529029
>Yeah, because of the common enemy of the Federation.
The Federation would struggle against either of them. While together they might be more than a match for the Federation neither are, if you'll excuse this, Vulcans. They won't see this logically and dispassionately enough to put their own egos aside to fight a common foe. Even ignoring that you're forgetting they share their own borders and interest in properties largely in the Beta Quadrant, it's hard to imagine anything short of fear would cause them to unite. The Romulans might see value in tricking the Klingons into being their catspaws, but the Klingons wouldn't be swayed by fear or potential loss. Especially when they've more than once nearly toppled the Federation.

>polls

Ha, yeah, polls. Clearly trustworthy, especially today. Polls rely on people with landlines which almost without fail are the elderly whose views may not be, shall we say, topical?

>>92529133
>Polls rely on people with landlines which almost without fail are the elderly whose views may not be, shall we say, topical?
Or, worse, rely on people willing to actually respond to polls like my opinionated asshole Uncle Ted.

>>92529133
>Clearly trustworthy, especially today
More or less, actually. Even today it's rare for the reality of something to fall outside a poll's margin of error. Polls are never *exact*, but they're usually pretty close.

>>92529078
>otherwise those politicians would be committing political sudoku
Not really. You're making another mistake, which is assuming that hatred of Russia is a top issue or single issue for anyone, but it's not. Your typical Republican might hate Russia but, for example, they hate inflation more, so they're gonna vote for the candidate that they think will be better at fighting inflation.

One thing I'll say about PIC, they do sometimes manage to get some of the background material almost right. High praise, right? But I remember anons mocking them for the holodecks still working in season 3. Per Voyager (and probably going back to the time the Dixon Hill program took hostages) the holodeck has its own powergrid that isn't compatible with the rest of the ship. Frankly I always thought that was bunko and a plot excuse for why they can't easily shut off the holodecks or transfer that power to other systems. Holodecks are so power intensive and prone to going rogue it's the only reason why they don't have an easy off-switch, and explains why Voyager kept using the holodecks despite often having issues with power. In DS9 the holosuites ran on the local grid as we learned when Sisko pointed out that the Federation wasn't billing Quark for it.

I still think it's weird that Starfleet allows its officers who to cower in it as opposed to meeting their fate head-on.

>>92529133
>They won't see this logically and dispassionately enough to put their own egos aside to fight a common foe

And indeed they didn't - the Romulans attacked the Klingons in the Khitomer massecre, remember?

>but the Klingons wouldn't be swayed by fear
Why not? They have been before.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cESBaDHZ2lQ

>>92529240
I think you're making a (very odd) mistake of thinking the American people are sitting around seething at Russia like this is still the height of the Cold War when in reality most Americans would just shrug. You'll find more intense passions against the Chinese as the chief enemy of the US than the Ruskies.

>>92529276
Two of those guys are clearly popping boners at the power of transforming entire planets, meanwhile Kruge wasn't swayed by fear. He was swayed by disgust of having to mow the lawn, then sit watching the sunset while sipping lemonade with his woman (whom he'd earlier vaporized) by his side. Fuck that, where's the smell of wet targ and blood as he cleans viscera off his blade while the flag of the Empire flutters in the breeze?

>>92529287
>You'll find more intense passions against the Chinese as the chief enemy of the US than the Ruskies.
I don't disagree. I never said that we spend every waking moment thinking about Russia being terrible, nor that Russia was the thing we hated most in the world. I just said, we generally hate Russia.

I hate the movie The King's Man but I don't sit around thinking about it all day, BUT if you asked me to opine on it I could, at great length, describe both how and why it's terrible. Like the fact that somehow a movie with a framing device of the whole of World War I does not once even mention France and fact a strict watching of it would imply that WWI was simply a war between Britain and Russia against Germany, no other players.

Your typical Klingon probably doesn't spend his whole day thinking about Romulans, but if you bring them up, get ready to hear some shit.

>>92528865
I guess in Disco I see it more because in that era the UFP's not quite at peak turbo space communism yet, but by the Picard era it seems like they'd be a great choice. Certainly the best of the great powers to join.

What are the downsides of the UFP. Good faith question. I can't really think of any myself. I can't imagine there's military obligations, considering that Betazed was so militarily backwards and underdeveloped the planet was conquered in like, a day. You're not going to be paying taxes since money isn't a thing. You'd have to follow certain social standards for admittance - like no caste systems - but my understanding was member worlds generally retain self-governance. There's some scientific restrictions - no creating ubermensch through gene tampering - but I'm really coming up blank.

>>92529563
Your planet is a lot more likely to have to deal with weird space nonsense. Seriously, we almost never hear about stuff likea Klingon ship being hurtled back in time to ancient Qo'noS to deal with hippies, or the Romulans being put through the wringer by Eris, or the Cardassians conducting an experiment that turns them all into kangaroos, or the Dominion having to deal with a colony with a rogue Vorta who's turned everyone into Italian Fascists.

And the few times weird shit DID happen to other polities, the Federation tended to be nearby.

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>>92529351
>Your typical Klingon probably doesn't spend his whole day thinking about Romulans
In that you'd be wrong. Every morning a good Klingon must wake up, forget to comb his natty hair, say his prayers to the Gods We Killed, recite his litany of personal honors to Kahless, then look at a framed picture of the Romulan Praetor and grind his teeth to keep them sharp as he builds up this flame of hatred in his heart to keep his Klingon blood burning. This is the way of a true warrior.

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I have found myself infatuated with the Hupyrian‘s and find them a pretty neat species. I like the idea of the Ferengi having these lumbering giants act as bodyguards and valets, and they give us a look at a Ferengi Alliance member species that aren’t Ferengi. I just wish more were done with them, do you guys have a minor species that you wish had more limelight?

>>92529701
>"ROMULANS could be here" he thought, "I've never been in this sector before. There could be ROMULANS anywhere." The low rumble of his targ warmed his pink blood. "I HATE ROMULANS" he thought. Qoy qeylIS puqloD reverberated his entire Bird of Prey, making it pulsate even as the 24 Darsek blood wine circulated through his powerful thick veins and washed away his (merited) tactical distrust of Vulcanoids after dark. "With a B'rel, you can go anywhere you want" he said to himself, out loud.

>>92529325
I never thought the notion of the Federation using the Genesis Device as a weapon of mass destruction was anything more than an excuse. It's like when Picard told the Douwd that they had no laws to fit his crimes. You sure about that, John Luck, because genocide seems to fit the bill. Not that they could really imprison such an entity without his consent, but that's another matter.

I suppose I felt the Genesis Device was a shitty weapon anyway. Has a fairly impressive reach, but you still have to actually get pretty close to successfully launch it without fear of interception. Fleets in Star Trek engage at such distances that you couldn't use it without wiping out your own side. Similar reason why it made no real sense as a deterrence weapon for the Nova Fleet. Now if the Klingons had it, yeah, they have the will and the cloaked ships to deliver it. But if the Federation can be trusted not to explore cloaking tech, outside a rogue admiral here and there, them going Genesis happy seems unlikely in the extreme. Klingons just wanted that tech for themselves. Hard to blame them, from their perspective at least.

>>92529699
The only one I can counter is that we see rogue Jem'hadar in a couple episodes of DS9 and Weyoun remarks something to the effect of "the loyalty of the Jem'hadar is somewhat overstated." How much or how little we can read into that is a debate that I don't think either of us benefit much from.

I'm on the fence about your point. I think it's maybe worth making a distinction between stuff that happens to the UFP and stuff that happens to Starfleet. They're pretty closely linked but not necessarily synonymous.

Outside of shit like the Dominion War, Earth's a boring as fuck place. Andoria continues to be cold as fuck. Vulcan's a boring desert planet. Tellarites continue to be gigantic fucking assholes to everyone.

Other polities probably run into weird shit too, although I'll concede it's probably less frequent because their navies tend not to go out looking for weird shit and probably don't poke the bear when they find it.

But there's probably been a Klingon ship lost to a temporal anomaly but nobody knows shit about it because Klingons don't into science and probably died because they couldn't treknobabble their way out of it.

And the spoonheads made a super weapon that got lost and ended up in the Delta Quadrant of all places.

Anyway that's a lot of words for "running into weird shit less frequently is a singular and not that big drawback."

>>92529781
>Fleets in Star Trek engage at such distances that you couldn't use it without wiping out your own side.

It's a man-portable planet killer, Anon. You don't use it against fleets.

>>92529325
>>92529781
Maltz and Torg saw it as potential devices of great military power, Kruge saw it as the most devastating weapon of cultural power. It's why he and later the Ambassador focused on preserving their race, and why the Klingons were so resistant to peace in 6. It's not an actual war with the Federation that they're truly afraid of, it's Federation cultural domination since their science can do stuff like that, causing everyone to flock to the Federation banner and lose their own individuality.

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>>92529869

>>92529839
You certainly could. You won't get a snazzy planet out of the deal without, say, a tasty nebula thrown into the deal but the device would happily deconstruct their atomic structure. Still the notion of fleets, I imagine, is how you get past those pesky enemy ships in order to reach key targets.

>>92529881
It's not fucking insidious, you augment-chasing homo. People keep picking fights with the Federation and losing; people keep spying on the Federation and noticing how happy and free they are; people keep stealing Federation technology because it's better than what they've got. Eventually, people are going to want to start emulating the Federation.

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>>92529869
That's just the writers being coy. Voyage Home was about Save the Whales. Undiscovered Country was about the end of the Cold War. Search for Spock was the Conservative Klingon's terror at The Gay Bomb.

>>92529990
>It's not fucking insidious, you augment-chasing homo.
Anon I'm not saying it is. Garak and Quark are. Kruge was. From the perspective of their enemies, the Federation is insidious.

>>92530012
Are you an augment-chasing homo too? I was talking to Garak.

>>92529701
Meanwhile the average Romulan officer wakes up with a sneer, orders his Reman servant to pick up his slippers then kicks the fucker over when he complies, issues a few random snide remarks about the Federation, then checks the wall monitor that links to the framed picture of the Romulan Praetor hanging on every Klingon warrior's wall with the secret surveillance cameras hidden in the eyes.

>>92528828
get the feeling Romulan women fuck crazy

>>92510955
>he team seems like they needed to almost juke the Paramount big wigs. Like a showbiz trojan horse.
I feel like that's how any good television gets made these days. Execs can only understand something if it's explained in the form of a chart and will only greenlight something if it hits the pre-approved boxes.

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>>92529735
>do you guys have a minor species that you wish had more limelight?
You’ve already posted mine, Hupyrian‘s are based and I wish they were expanded on.

>>92531345
I believe it’s a racial trait of all Vulcanoid species, all their women fuck like fighter jets on meth

>>92531345
I feel like Romulans would be awful lays. Like impossible to please because even when she is pleased she's not going to show it, then at the end she hits you with a list of all the things you did wrong. She'll also be constantly scheming on how to dump you for someone richer and more powerful.

>>92528865

The offer is pretty comprehensive. You gain full access to a broad range of scientific and cultural institutions and are tied into a common economic system allowing for easy trade with a vast number of worlds.
You then also fall under the security umbrella of one of the biggest-yet-most-benign forces in the galaxy, Starfleet. You can still keep whatever vessels and forces you have, but you can hand off any longer range commitments to those guys. They'll also fling open the doors to Starfleet Academy to your citizens, giving those with the drive to explore the stars an excellent avenue to do so.
Diplomatically, benefits include being represented by Federation ambassadors and having your viewpoint considered by the Federation Council. This one is a little less overwhelmingly positive as it does mean less-good relations with other powers, but it also means those powers can't just run roughshod over you.

Now, all this doesn't mean it is 'right' for your world, but the entire admission process into the Federation is meant to determine if it is right for you. If your political system and citizenry can meet the requirements (and are happy to do so) they likely don't view the relationship as having downsides.

>>92534248
you also get people who will largely leave you alone if you want. the ferengi under rom are interested but will take some egalitarianism and equality of personhood but keep their cash, thanks

>>92534248
>>92538603
>>92528865
It also helps that the other major powers basically suck and would happily push you over and steal everything of value from your world(s).

>>92501762

is that all the modiphius PDFs we have? the game has a ton of sourcebooks by now

>>92501762
>>92501858
I’m looking forward to never having to see you faggots and your dykeslop on this site ever again. You got driven off /tv/ and /co/. This board is next.

>>92541080
Being run off of /tv/ and /co/ (what's even the difference anymore?) sounds like a badge of honor, but /co/ had a thread about the show this week. Hell, you probably made it so you could bitch and whine. You seem the sort.

>>92541080
>I’m looking forward to never having to see you faggots and your dykeslop on this site ever again

Yes, because as we all know, when a show ends, no one ever talks about it ever again, kind of like what happened with this old show from the late 1960s called Star Trek.

>>92541205
Your dykeslop show got cancelled with less than two seasons worth of content. It got canceled because no one was watching it except mentally ill sexual deviants and terminally online shitposters (You). No one will remember it a week after the final episode airs.

>>92541278
You wanna put some money on that bet, make it interesting?

>>92541278
By the time season 5 finishes it'll have about 60 hours of total runtime. Shows with shorter total runtimes have been fondly remembered decades after the fact. The original Battlestar Galactica, for example, even if you include Galactica 1980, only had about 25 hours of total runtime. (34 episodes with a 44 minute runtime each).

Given that it was the most critically-loved show of the NuTrek era that began with STD, there's pretty good odds that it will be remembered, at worst, as the best Star Trek show of the 2020s, unless SNW, Prodigy, or that Section 31 nonsense does something to surprise us.

>>92541437
It got canceled. There’s no use lying anymore.

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Just to avoid the shitposting, since that seems to be what we're dealing with, I have a genuine question: should the space jackets have become a standard uniform or at least an away mission feature?

>>92541517
>It got canceled
So was Babylon 5
So was Star Trek
So was Firefly
So was Battlestar Galactica
So was Farscape
So was Stargate Atlantis
So was Space Cases
So was War Planets

So have bee, in fact, most of the sci-fi shows I've loved. But I remember them all fondly. And hey, sometimes, they managed to make a comeback or some way, or at least go out with a hurrah. Babylon 5 got its 5th season after all plus a couple of halfway decent movies (and...we won't talk about the stuff afterwards). Firefly got Serenity and Farscape got The Peacekeeper Wars. And of course, Star Trek itself was cancelled, and yet we got, well, all of this.

So, sorry, troll, but I ain't even mad. Being the Babylon 5 fan that I am, 5 seasons seems like an absolutely perfect run, and it's coming well ahead of time, with plenty of advance notice for McMahon to craft a finale. He could, of course, cock it up, but I've got no reason to think he will. He's got all the tools he needs to succeed and more than enough evidence of the skill needed to pull it off.

>>92541523
Honestly I would have loved to see a dedicated away-team uniform, at least when beaming down to an unknown planet. And it would have been nice to see Operations and Sciences versions of that jacket.

>>92541650

I agree that Operations/Sciences version of the jacket would've been cool to see
As for an away-team uniform; it would've made sense, but it would've been expensive to make up yet another bundle of uniforms.

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>>92541523
TOS movies having field jackets and off-duty bomber jackets was excellent. More of that.

>>92541636
From what I've read, it seems Season 5 was completed on the assumption there was a 50/50 chance it would be the end, so I'd expect at the least the William Boimler storyline to come to a conclusion, but probably not a full blown finale with things like promotions to new ships.

What I would have really loved would be if the finale was a "lost" episode of Enterprise played completely straight with the only appearance from the LD characters being to say "Computer, End Program" at the end.

>>92542057
No one expected the cancelation. There was talk of S6 scripts being worked on a few months ago.

>>92542279
I cannot believe that because people have been talking it being cancelled since the end of season 4, and probably even earlier. There's been talk that Paramount+ is flatout dying, and with Prodigy getting the push many were already thinking the writing was on the wall. I mean do we really think they decided this was the perfect time to end Disco? Do we really think they couldn't have kept churning out season after season of shitty plots?

At this point I think people would be justified in thinking that the streamer is about to belly up and maybe Star Trek will sink back into a coma. But, hey, at least we've got goddamn JJ to the rescue again, right!? Fuuuuuuck this timeline.

>>92542057
I hold out hope for the finale to be set like 10 years later, with Boimler the captain of his own ship, Mariner as his XO, Tendi as his chief science officer and Rutherford as his chief engineer, as they go to make Second First Contact with the Malcorians.

More than anything I live in perpetual fear it dropping the ball as hard as a certain equine show I watched for 10 years did in its own big finale, but I haven't seen any of the warning signs for LD that I did for FiM.

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>>92542589
I'm reminded of when the last season of STP was airing, around the time they were still dragging out the damn nebula eps, and someone said the solution would be Picard and Riker pointing at the viewscreen and shouting, "It's the Cerritos-B!" revealing Captain Boimler coming to their rescue. Given what actually happened I prefer this idea.

>>92542475
https://www.indiewire.com/news/business/paramount-plus-lost-490-million-dollars-q4-2023-1234957992/

Profitable by 2025!

>>92542702
>Given what actually happened I prefer this idea.
What did happen? I lost interest in STP at the end of season 1.

>>92533876
Romulans don't follow the teachings of Surak so they would express some shit. The scheming could happen but not if you got a Romulan Republic grill.

>>92533851
Yeah it is Vulcanoid shit but most of that could be Pon Farr for the Vulcans. You could still be right though with how T'Pol started the foreplay in Enterprise.

>>92546995
Could be a mixture, I think Pon Farr or similar breeding seasons play a large role in female Vulcanoid fuck practices but I think even during the non-breeding seasons that Vulcanoid females are naturally violent sex fiends made for raping male Humanoids. The Vulcan’s are just the best at suppressing it.

>>92526988
>that image
lol didn't read, anyone who posts that is a fag with a worthless opinion, buh bye.

>>92541437
SNW is the only one that has a chance at that.
It's uneven as stated earlier in the thread, but its first two seasons were far better than TNG's first two seasons.

>>92542702
I genuinely think the
>Shipname-Letter
thing becoming common might be one of the things I hate most about nuTrek. It was supposed to be a huge honour afforded to a tiny minority of truly legendary ships or captains, but it's just used as yet another fucking memberberry now. Hey guys, remember Captain From When You Cared? Look! Look! He's commanding Shipname You Remember! Clap, clap like a seal you fucking cretin!

>>92546139
NTA but it went full memberberries and I at least was okay with that. I went into the show about octogenarian Picard for the memberberries.

Picard and Riker athered up the just about all the old TNG crew to make a one last mission on a rebuilt Enterprise (Geordi is in charge of the ship museum and rebuilt it using the recovered saucer section and stuck it on another ship's aft. And used interns for all his labor). Their mission was to fly into and destroy a Borg cube and kill its queen that had kidnapped Picard and Crusher's secret son.

Basically, I look at Picard as: Season 1 is bad, but not offensively so. Season 2 is offensively bad. Season 3 is what it should have been from the start and, smartly, largely ignored Season 2. Aside from a Q cameo at the very end setting up a potential spinoff.

>>92546986
It's not emotional suppression, though the Romulans are curiously dispassionate in their demeanor for the most part. It's about Romulans never giving a compliment that isn't in a snide or sarcastic tone. Never just give anything away, you have to get something for it, preferably something that puts you in a tactically advantageous position. You might say, "Clearly she'll want to take all the initiative during sex," but unfortunately it's far more likely she's thinking if she praises you or shows pleasure you'll get an ego about your prowess. By constantly dickwhipping you she's ensuring you keep putting in maximum effort to try to get things right, so she's always getting your full attention. After all, it's not about your pleasure, it's about hers.

>>92547489
>can't read

good for you, ignorance will serve you well in life

>>92547520
This is a genuinely silly take considering the very reason for the Enterprise's name is from its legacy, which we do IRL too. Lineage, branding, nostalgia, whatever, it happens. And if it's just the attachment of a simple letter that's even sillier.

That and I'm pretty sure like with the rest of the comment the Cerritos having a lettered legacy was a joke.

>>92546139
If you're asking how they got out of the nebula and away from Vadic, it took them way too long to realize that the waves of energy that were supercharging, among other things, the lighting in the ship (so impossible for them to miss), could allow them to solve their power problems. They surfed a wave of energy and Riker used had them use the tractor beam to move a small asteroid to "uppercut" Vadic's ship, crippling it. This after the Titan earlier took an entire starship thrown at it without comparable damage, but oh well. An asteroid may be pretty solid, but a starship is armored with an explosive core (and potentially more explosives depending on cargo/torpedo complement). Basically the writers needed an excuse to sideline Vadic for the next few episodes until they were ready to bring her back.

They did way too many plot convenience moments, such as when they were done with Vadic they just flushed her out the airlock to freeze (nevermind Changelings can survive in space and even turn into space dwelling lifeforms to "fly" between worlds) and her ship was blown up in a simple volley, such that you have to wonder how it was ever a threat in the first place because without their portal gun they were worthless. But the Changeling enemies had to be brushed aside so the Queen could be their whatta tweest real villain.

>>92547528
>Their mission was to fly into and destroy a Borg cube
That was so damn bad. Nevermind the fucking Galaxy Class even fitting inside but they quickly go from Data being the only one to pilot to Troi taking over because she sensed her baby daddy. Not complaining about sensing Riker, but it sure as hell doesn't explain how she can suddenly pilot as good as Data to get them through the Borg ship's interior.

I'm still not even sure why the Queen was in such a bad way. She still has a giant ship, she still has viable drones who respond to her, and decades to rebuild. Not only is there another supposedly benign version of the Borg she could have infiltrated and subverted or at least acquired undamaged nanoprobes, The Artifact shows that there's still cubes with healthy drones in their version of stasis she would have found handy.

>>92551760
And people praised that episode because of the crew discovering there was a lifeform in the nebula creating those energy waves felt like "old school Trek". It really didn't, to me.

>>92514360
Let the makers take a break for a year or two.
(Not a decade or two, like Futurama did.)
And then they come back stronger than ever.

>>92551869
>I'm still not even sure why the Queen was in such a bad way.

You ever get a second hand PC? Back before companies started selling them on to resellers to refurb, you'd just get one at a liquidation or through a friend, and it'd either be the most out of date crap for free, or it'd be incredibly overpowered for the kind of cash it cost - but you'd still have to spend days, and sometimes a fair amount of extra cash, on getting the damn thing to work without a network, or with any network but the one it was designed to work with. Couldn't just use the operating system it had, because that means laboriously going through all the boot dependencies and making sure it doesn't hang waiting for anything it's never going to hear again. Full wipe and reinstall is what you want - how do you do that to yourself?

Hardware was a problem too. Everything's plug and play for us now but it wasn't always so and wouldn't be for the Collective - they've got to laboriously rebuild. At some stage attrition - from the many, many enemies of the Collective to system failure and further rebellions, which seemed to be happening with increasing regularity - would pretty much destroy it. Then there's the power requirements - a Federation ship has the ability to mine for the supplies it needs, a Borg ship does too - but has vaster power requirements, without which its crew simply shut down.

>The Artifact

Like it or not, the Borg have a longstanding practice of abandoning defective Cubes. Sometime after Hugh first encountering the Federation and maybe around the time Lore branched the Collective, the Borg stopped coming for their dead and simply abandoned them. Given that multiple cultures seem to have had similar ideas to the Federation about poisoning the Collective with captured Drones, this isn't unreasonable. Many were undoubtedly successful. When you have countless ships that's acceptable losses; when you have one ship still responding to you, you can't afford one infection.

>>92553924
This Queen would make more sense if she was discarded by the Collective after presumably what Janeway did to her and was just bitter and pissed. Of course that would require a functioning Collective for her to be an exile of, and they seem to be running with the notion that the Borg are beaten and what we see are remnants, albeit still extremely dangerous.

>Like it or not, the Borg have a longstanding practice of abandoning defective Cubes.

In the first season Seven connects to the Queen's chamber and nearly becomes a new Queen herself, with a functional cube, more or less, and still many many Borg drones under her command. She doesn't, for some reason (the plot doesn't make it clear), even after Romulan Legolas asks if she'll assimilate him. It really feels like the broken Queen in season 3 just wasn't trying, frankly.

>>92553976
I personally hated how the Romulans spaced the Borg and Seven acted like, whelp, that's it, no more XBs. In VOY we see Borg who have been exposed to space for years can be reactivated into more or less functioning drones. The Doctor said the body was quite dead, excusing some movement as being the technology, but it certainly became lively when the Cooperative fired up the cube. In ENT we see them frozen for even longer and are still viable.

Feels like she really wasn't trying.

>>92550391
I agree, but I also think it'd be nice to have a few "classic" names officially still running - not retired, not even training ships like the Enterprise before Wrath or the USS Leondegrance, but actual museums like the (real) USS Constitution or HMS Victory, still with their original commission and still officially part of the fleet. I'd like to believe that Geordi's flophouse is full of such vessels, but the presence of Voyager, Sisko's second Defiant, and what two or three Entersprise really speaks against that, and I think does diminish the concept that these are real, commissioned ships - functioning cloaking devices and hull thefts from Qualor II notwithstanding.

The problem that the other anon has is a little more extreme than mine, but it would be nice if there were a ship so famous, so respected, that they never considered retiring her but maintained her in the ready state. It's not that you'd ever send a whatever - an old NX-upgrade for example - against the Borg or the Klingons or the Dominion, but maintaining one as a fleet museum ship, even in drydock, would be a mark of respect. So I do get it, but it's not part of Federation/Starfleet culture. Oh well. We do re-use names but usually with new hull numbers, which is also different to their practice.

Plus a lot of the old ships that you've heard of, in order to have any meaning to a viewer, would probably have been destroyed to make a point about Our Heroic Heroes' Resilience.

>>92554073
I'm going to be honest, DS9 might be part of our problem. When the Federation/Klingon fleet loses ~100 ships in just one engagement with the Klingons you're almost certainly going to be recycling a lot of names in the near future as they shore the numbers of the fleet back up. If they were cranking out ships fast enough it probably felt like some ships were Kenny from South Park.

"Oh my god who needs a starship, they destroyed the USS Exeter!" "You bastards!"

>>92554108
>When the Federation/Klingon fleet loses ~100 ships in just one engagement with the Klingons
Ha, trust no one, not even other Klingons. Which is probably accurate but still whoops on my part. I'd been thinking about mentioning the relatively brief hostilities between the Federation and Klingons before the Dominion War broke out, but figured just the extreme losses during the Dominion War were enough. I fucked up editing.

>>92554128
Also coming off losses at Wolf 359 then the Battle of Sector 001 against the Borg. The latter half of the 24th century was pretty rough for Starfleet.

This conversation made me think of something. Is it possible the staggering losses during the Dominion War lead to lax standards in graduating Starfleet Officers which in turn lead to the shitty state we see the org in during STP? Chakotay and Janeway had a conversation about their own misfits where he told her, "There are always a few who don't make it past their first year on a starship. Normally, they're reassigned but in our case, maybe we should relieve them of duty and let them pursue their own interests. It certainly wouldn't hurt general efficiency."

Suddenly Starbase 80 is making a lot more sense.

>>92554186
Only if you assume Starfleet is supposed to be hardcore military. They're NOAA mixed with NASA mixed with the Coast Guard that's only technically the military because the Federation doesn't have anyone else. And just like how you had people back in the day join the air force specifically because it was the best way of getting into NASA, there will be people who join Starfleet because they want to do research assignments that Starfleet handles and only tolerating starship grunt work as a means to that end. I don't think Starfleet particularly looks down on those kinds of people, they just get reassigned to the jobs they want.

>>92554222
We joke about it here sometimes but for real imagine how many exobiologists they handed a phaser rifle and beamed into a trench with coked up Jem'Hadar charging in.

>>92554366
I'm assuming Starfleet would at least have the sense to have those kinds of officers stationed mostly in the core worlds at "safe" areas, but at the end of the day if you need more phasers you can't afford to be picky about who's firing them.

>>92554756
It's nice to think that, but given the number of costly engagements it's hard to imagine they had enough people in security to assign to the front lines, though I also doubt they pulled all their security officers from the rest of the Federation, too, especially with Betazed occupied and Earth attacked by the Breen. And it's not like people assigned to ships had much choice. All those scientists and explorers were suddenly not needed, warm bodies in the trenches, however...

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>>92554186
Could that explain Admiral Fucking Hubris? She'd have surely fought in the war and while it would be nice to think only the good and/or competent officers survived, here we are.

>>92554997
She can say that to his goddamn son anyday

>>92541173
/co/ has more variety and longevity in their coomer threads. The coomer threads also seem to outnumber the outrage du jour threads on /co/, unlike here or /tv/.

>>92556623
Must be my fault for not using the coomer threads. /co/ used to be my jam back in the days when it had some of the best Transformers threads outside of /m/ (who tended not to want to talk about the comics side of things, least the IDW stuff), but these days it's pure schwarbage. Storytime threads can sometimes have worthwhile discussion, but typically talkback threads are just cynical bastard posting and bitching about how woke everything is. A damn shame, in my opinion. The place used to be pretty chill.

LD threads tend to be pretty controversial and basically what I said about the talkbacks, but Prodigy seems to get some pretty decent traction and also that one guy who keeps spamming the same damn AI slop of Gwyn.

Speaking of Prodigy looks like they're slated to have a Mirror Universe ep in the second half of season 2. I'm trying to figure out what Mirror Dal would be like. Evil but honest, hardworking, and intelligent? Or basically a Khan/Gary Mitchell thing going on where he has full use of his genetic heritage including whatever pre-ascension powers Organians have?

>>92556844
that sounds like a Mirror, Mirror style learn-about-yourself-by-observation episode if ever I heard one

>>92556623

It really depends on how outrage baity Marvel are being that season.

>>92556844
I'm genuinely surprised someone hasn't tried talking about the new Fallout shit because Gwyn's VA is in it. Not that it's necessary. /tg/ has never been shy about having Fallout threads. Plenty of board games and p&p adaptations, the whole gurps angle, etc. Just checked and there's one right now.

>>92560404
It was all over /tv/ for a while. Lots of threads about the raiders all being 100% white mono-ethnic bad guys while the Brotherhood of Steel is a diverse and inclusive entity with a black male protagonist who fucks the Vault Dweller and a non-binary.

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>>92560772
fwiw they were talking about it on /co/ yesterday. I don't think anons even remembered there was a even a comic for New Vegas. Not like they actually read comics, right? As for the raiders, they should be more upset they aren't all sporting nice crispy radioactive tans.

Speaking of comics, I'm surprised we don't talk about the current Trek comics more. And by sheer coincidence we recently learned that T'Lir, a Vulcan of Starfleet, is actually a gender swapping Organian! I enjoy it because the number of stupid guest appearances and the ridiculous plots sounds like more than one of my games. Oh who am I kidding, it sounds like all of them. Sure, Scotty, Data, and Torres create the protojump, who else would?

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>>92561041
I tried keeping up with the series about Mirror Picard building up his power base for a while. It was mildly entertaining but I kind of lost interest when they teased Mirror Janeway with an identical crew, Maquis and all.

>>92561041
>who else would?
Monk's therapist, outraged to learn all his advancements in warp technology weren't actually his but solely the work of his assistant who left him to go groom teenage boys, decided this time he'd actually design a better warp drive for real with blackjack and protostars.

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>>92562360
Wasn't there a thing about how Fate brought people together, even in the MU? Maybe that was from one of the books.
Though that was kinda hard to believe when they kill off characters willy-nilly (the MU books/stories are trash btw, at least the ones about VOY).

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Could he out-haggle a Ferengi?

>>92563045
I say it would be 50/50

>>92563045
Yes. But that Ferengi is Rom.

>>92563045
He could , but Brunt called 3 low pay Nausicans and/or one really good Gorn mercenary to break his legs

>>92550391
What are you burbling about the Enterprise for? The whole point of my point is that using it willy-nilly diminishes how special it is for the ships that *do* deserve such a unique honour *like the Enterprise*. Most ship names were and should continue to be simply reused once a prior ship bearing the name is retired with that new ship's registry number. The whole point of the lettering is supposed to be that a ship is *so* unique in its impact on Federation history that not only the name but the specific legacy of that ship is carried on with the reuse of the registry with the additional letter to denote each new ship that bears it.

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>>92562455
>Monk's therapist

>>92563045
I'm more concerned how likely the deal is to end in sex.

>>92564291
>Grand Nagus Zek and Ishka meet Rygel in a bar and dig his vibe

>>92554222
Voyager had a guy like that as a one-off character; he was in engineering I believe, and was mostly a theoretician who just joined starfleet because he needed a brief stint on a Starship to gain some practical data, and then Voyager went and got lost in the Delta Quadrant

>>92566642

That's rough. He just signed up for a 1 year tour and now he's in the fucking delta quadrant, half the crew are dead and have been replaced with literal terrorists, replicators and holodeck time are both rationed and the ships cook is an alien who until a week ago had never met a human being and has no idea what your nutritional needs are, or what is and isn't poisonous to you and the ships doctor is dead and they've had to resort to just leaving the infamously bad EMH program on 24/7 and hoping for the best.

All you wanted was some extra credit on your dissertation.

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>>92566642
>>92568003
That was this motherfucker who was so unpleasant to work with he was assigned to the deepest jefferies hole in the ship. I'm pretty sure if she could have gotten away with it Torres would have had the hatch welded shut. He's such an introvert, though, he actually prefers this.

>>92525881
The Jem'hadar in particular feel more like they constantly have an invisible sword threatening to skewer them for not acting in-character than they are pre-conditioned to being murderous brutes.

>>92501858
This is exactly what happened to the Orville, I could see it happening here too.

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>>92571218
The Bajoran was a pretty solid waifu. Also the wizard chick in the 2000 D&D flick.

>>92501858
It's a pretty standard story of any given TV production
>Board meeting
>Someone pitches an idea to "make Trek targeting audience X"
>"Audience X" is in this case "people watching American adult comedy cartoons"
>LD comes to life, with no idea what it wants to be other than targeting that specific demo
>It's sufficiently popular to get green-lit for 2nd season
>They have to figure out how to make this shit work long-term, rather than some haphazardly pitch to execs
>Three seasons later, it's a half-decent show, because turns out this can work out easily
>Contemporary Trek is meanwhile so shit, it makes LD look even better by comparison
It ain't rocket science, son. The show is also the right balance of being easily accessible to utter newfags and having just enough self-referential jokes to poke fun of various stuff throughout Trek, without making it their one and only gimmick.
Besides, each and every single fucking Trek show that isn't OS has always abysmal first season.

>>92571218
Torres could assign me to any hole she wants, if you know what I mean

>>92503703
I'm not. It's the perfect timing to wrap it up. It's clear as day they are running out of ideas, and the writer guild protest already did a number on them, so the best thing to do is wrap stuff up while still on the high wave, rather than end up dragging for too long

>>92574313
>this anon is reassigned to neelix's hole in the next duty roster

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>>92574483

>>92541636
>So was Battlestar Galactica
>So have bee, in fact, most of the sci-fi shows I've loved.
Now I just hope you're talking about the '78 show, not the '03 shitshow that completely fell apart and should have been cancelled right after first season so people could be nostalgic about "what could have been", rather what the actual show turned into

Alright!
Fine!
I'll say it!
I'll say it and I don't care who fucking hears me say it. You got it? Do you fucking understand me?
I want to strike a Klingon on her face and cut my knuckle on the edge of her pointy fucking teeth so she tastes my blood in her mouth.
I want to bleed my heart out reading love poetry to a 6.5 foot tall Klingon warrioress while she throws my own furniture at me.
I want to report to sickbay at 4:15 AM with multiple broken ribs, pulmonary hemorrhaging and a black eye.
I want to prove my strength in an honor duel against her brother and force her house to recognize me as a true warrior.
Qoy qeylIs puqloD!

>>92574864
>>92574355
Pretty defeatist attitude, assuming it'll always come crashing down, or that somehow there are no more stories to tell or that any new stories are somehow hidden out of reach. It also ignores the subjectiveness of what is worthwhile or enjoyable storytelling. I for one am glad they didn't stop at the first season. I rather liked the DS9 and VOY elements. Hell, I even liked Zefram Cochrane Land complete with recreation Phoenix rides into orbit. I'd rather not dream about what they might have done when they actually fucking did it. What logic is there in that, I ask you?

Am I sad we're losing LD and PRO while they make new JJ flicks and replacements for STP and STD? You bet your sweet asses.

>>92501858
>Focus on obnoxious irresponsible sassy black girlboss who loves herself and hates authority and is never wrong
>Make her likeable, make her believable, make her grow over time
Truly the deepest subversion.

>>92574864
do you not like endless loud drums and bad renditions of "all along the watchtower" over crossfade wipes of people staring into the middle distance?

LD dying, what would be suitable final arc? Last breath,blaze of glory.

For me:
>Close the william boimler arc
> Get tendi back from orion somehow while learning more about orion culture
> Mariner's arc is kinda done
>Rutherford's arc is kinda done
>Finalize some lore on the Koala, maybe how it interacts with the other godlike entities like Q and the Prophets(does the traveller count?) and I guess Badgey is in the pantheon now. We know that no other trek show is gonna use the Koala
>T'Lyn's arc is kinda done
>More of Dadmiral Freeman, maybe Carol backstory.
>Shaxs/T'Ana marriage? or at least T'ana backstory/how she lost her tail

>>92575870
>it was all a holodeck fantasy played out by Riker who really did want to relive the glory days on the D but his wife said if she catches him playing make believe on the actual D again she'll have him tossed in the same padded cell she had Barclay committed to

>>92575870
How unrealistic are we allowed to be?

>William Boimler was an Obsidian Order operative attempting to infiltrate Section 31 and use their hoarded superweapons to destroy the Federation before it can absorb Cardassia. His plan is foiled by the Cerritos, resulting in the exposure and complete and utter elimination of Section 31 and lifetime imprisonment for all its members.

>Tendi attempts to start an underground movement on Orion to teach everyone science is so much cooler that piracy, only to discover one already exists, set up by her Great-grandmother, who leaves a video message chewing out Boimler and Mariner who by revealing too much about their future forced her to operate in secret to avoid erasing the timeline they came from.

>The crew arrives on Argo for shore leave and after causing a scene Captain Freeman successfully negotiates with the governor who agrees to forgive them in part because if it weren't for Starfleet his grandparents would never have met. Did I mention he's part-plant?

>A disaster at a remote colony leaves 99% of the population horribly irradiated. Set entirely in Migleemo's office, we learn he's just as competent as anyone else on board as he inspires the crew to keep going in their mission to scour the city for any victims who stand a chance of surviving for the fortnight it'll take for a dedicated hospital ship to arrive.

>Kayshon, his focus episode existing.

>>92575805
Mariner's S4 finale stuff broke my heart. I'm actually impressed how much they managed to make me care about her.

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>>92575956

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just finished watching TNG for the first time, should i watch the movies? i heard they're a bit cringe but i do wanna do a complete clean up of all TNG content, also, what series do i watch now? DS9 or Voyager? it seems like DS9 is a sequel prequel kind of thing, so im eyeing that.

>>92577209
At the very least, you have to watch Generations for that time where Data sings, and you have to watch Insurrection for that other time where Data sings.

>>92577209
Watch Generations and First Contact and see how you feel about the other two. It's only eight hours total for all four. DS9 gets Worf halfway through and Generations will explain why, but Generations also has an underrated end to Kirk, which people hated at the time but is a pretty good way to go, if you've gotta go. The premise of the film is stupid but then you've just got through Barclay Eats The Crew On Spider Weekend so, I don't know what to tell you, it's no more stupid than anything you've already seen.

First Contact is very different and if you intend to watch Voyager you should probably see it too. It kind of crosses with DS9, but they only really mention it the once.

The main problem the movies have is that they retread a lot of old ground - Generations could have been (and I think may have been originally conceived as) a two-part tv story, First Contact is Best of Both Worlds 2: The Rewengay, Insurrection is a not-bad retelling of that one with Worf's brother without the noble savage baggage, Nemesis is... it's all those Picard's ill-defined dark personal history ones, but without all the Ferengi plotters.

There's worse things to watch in 8 hours.

>>92577209
DS9 is the best Star Trek has to offer. Voyager is TNG again with a cheaper cast.

>>92577524
Voyager has better stories and better worldbuilding/consistency for the Federation/Starfleet generally

>>92577524
He didn't ask about either of those things.
>>92577802
I don't know about that. But I think it has the strongest basic premise, and I think that DS9 has the second-strongest basic premise (unironically TOS would have had a strong premise if their basic premise had been second-contact. The opening speech is a lie), also the Voyager cast is lovable. But it also has some of the worst and most inconsistent writing overall.
DS9 is my favorite trek, and Voyager is probably my 6th favorite trek, but it depends on what you want trek to be.

>>92577209
Absolutely. General consensus is that First Contact is the best, but plenty of people have a soft spot for Generations or Insurrection. Nemesis is shoddy but you might knock enjoyment out of the cool space ship battle.

>>92579017
>>92577209
Action Picard was hit or miss for me. It was fine in Generations and First Contact, but him going commando in Insurrection and driving around in a Starfleet analogue of a Warthog is weird.

>>92572821
>invisible sword threatening to skewer them
The will of the Founders work in mysterious ways.

>>92577802
>Voyager has better stories and better worldbuilding/consistency for the Federation/Starfleet generally
... What? While they certainly fleshed out, to a fair degree, an unexplored area of the galaxy (and to a far greater degree than the Gamma ever was) their sheer lack of contact with the Federation/Starfleet meant they barely fleshed out jack shit for either. They added bio-neural jell-o packs which nobody else has done anything with, maneuverable nacelles which nobody else has really bothered to use (and now STD gives us the super duper superfluous detached nacelle), the super duper battlemoded ship that breaks itself into smaller ships (which has never been seen again). About the only lasting impact they had was the EMH system.

>>92581206
I mean one high ranking Jem'Hadar simply refused to murder an already beaten Klingon prisoner of war so the Vorta had him vaporized.

>we got to find the chief engineer
>he exists outside of time because of his tard dna
OK then

>>92581505
Don't insult the Irish like that.

>>92581505
Discovery up to its usual bullshit, I take it?

>>92582293
I just try and pretend it doesn't exist now

>>92582293
>Staff say leading up to the premiere that this time around the things are more restrained instead of yet another universe-ending threat to defeat.
>Episode 4 and Michael is flung into a future where she failed to stop the baddy and the Federation is destroyed

>>92582415
Whatta tweest, amirite?

>>92525002
To be fair, klingon honor suffers from inconsistent writing like most cultures in trek, but your post is good. A lot of it can be read as varying local values for "honor" (like in Voyager, when a warp core breach caused by battle damage would have counted as a dishonorable death, that ship had been isolated from other klingons for generations and we don't know how their honor-game evolved). The way that klingons will posture at each other with competing notions of honor suggests that the 'rules' of honor are always evolving even for the true believers.

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Gosh, I hope Michael doesn't go to extraordinary lengths to cause a universe-ending problem in the first few episodes.
>mfw Michael goes to extraordinary lengths to cause a universe-ending problem in the first episode.
No one wanted to see Raynor risk his ship, but the dude was right, it was worth it. He shouldn't have listened to her.

>>92513884
I only needed to look him up and see phenotype to see why it failed honestly.

>>92526988
Its because all the shit made in the last decade was deliberately political, made to take an open-faced shit in your mouth. That is why people didnt like any of it.

>>92582894
I agree that some of it is poor writing, but at the same time it would be strange if every Klingon had the same interest, devotion, or even sense of honor. I'm glad they aren't a monolith. It doesn't need to be evolving, just different people having different opinions. It's kind of like Starfleet and the Prime Directive. Sure it's the first big rule you should never break, but damn if we see them break it rather often and Starfleet shrugs and nods at the justifications. Although, man, talk about an evolving system. I preferred it when it was just about pre-warp. Got pretty annoying when it was suddenly about warp cultures for internal conflicts (I mean who DOESN'T have an internal conflict) or the even harder to quantify balance of power in a region of space. Don't get me wrong, I can understand in principal why they'd want to avoid messing with internal conflicts but helping people, negotiating, and keeping the peace are basically their main jobs when they aren't lobbing torps at Romulans who keep saying, "Whoopsie, is this YOUR side of the Neutral Zone?" Kind of like the bit where it's fine if someone makes a direct appeal for help. Or not being able to share technology with people but gosh and golly didn't Janeway do that, or try to, a number of times. Tried to give the Malon clean burning energy systems, for instance. Man that Malon was an idiot. Sure he'd be ruining his job in the hazardous waste hauling racket, but since Janeway was giving the tech to him he could have monopolized it and made even more money without nuking his nads off.

>>92583770
>Its because all the shit made in the last decade was deliberately political
Yes, but less so than with any other Trek. You're stuck in a position where generic luke-warm inoffensive writing is extremely offensive to you because your norms are radically different from everyone else's.

>>92584508
Yea, you don't want any culture to be a monoliths, other anons have made good posts about that. I do think that klingon honor is evolving though, moreso than (say) Vulcan or Romulan honor, klingon honor is squishy. Any group of klingons who work together will tend to have very similar concepts of honor, their social cohesion is largely based on that, but their sense of honor also changes to respond to new challenges and circumstances and there seems to be an ongoing conversation about how that works. And you can see how honorless klingons thrive on this and take advantage of the wiggle-room.
My main beef is with TOS klingons vs post-TOS klingons, and that's something I should just forgive them for because it was really meant to be a retcon, but klingons in TNG would never take hostages whereas klingons in TOS would execute one thousand hostages at the first sign of treachery. Some of which can be mitigated by simply saying that the federation and its various species earned the klingons' respect, back in TOS non-klingons were like honor-nonpersons and it was honorable to shit on them, but then you get to the TNG era and aliens are treated with a certain degree of honor.

>>92583770
what's it like not to learn

>>92575857
my issue with bsg isn't any of that. The general nonsensical nature of the ending, the twist that the Cylons actually did NOT have a plan, and also Ronald D. Moore deciding that every character was O'Brien and all must suffer every second they are on screen. Yet even as bad as it was, I'd rather watch that than Disco. Hell, I'd rather watch motherfucking Caprica. Including the shitty TV movie.

https://gamefound.com/en/projects/gf9/star-trek-ascendancy

Something to keep an eye on, for those of you who like Trek boardgames.
For those who rightly distrust links posted here: Galeforce 9 have announced a campaign for a all-in version of Star Trek Ascendency with all the expansions (plus a new race) in one honkin' big box. We've absolutely no details on cost (I expect many monies) or anything beyond a rough late '24 date for the launch.

>>92591003
>plus a new race
Curious who that might be, at this stage. The Gorn, maybe? The Orions? And yeah that's gonna be at least 400€. Probably more

Also I figure we should add something about the autosage to the OP just so people know in general.