“Um, Gandalf is clearly a Cleric, not a Wizard, duh.”
>>92502452He was a favored soul yes.
>>92502452He's an aasimon.
>>92502452Lose an argument did you, anon?
It’s never not hilarious how tabletop nerds always have their balls twisted in a vice grip by good old semantics
>>92502485Autistic people struggle with definitions and other barriers.
Gandalf is performing miracles not magic
>>92502452Olorin was a Maiar of Manwe before clothing himself in flesh and travelling unto middle earth that the children of Eru may resist the dark lord SauronBard.
>>92502452The Lord of the Rings was written many decades before D&D was ever a thing, and I will never understand why people insist on retroactively applying labels from a game to a work of literature.
>>92502485>>92502511These
I keep a pistol on the table for these scenarios. It's a Colt 1851 reproduction. No powder or bullets in the chambers of course just a percussion cap on all 6 nipples. When you shoot it all it does is make a decently loud pop and throw a few sparks. Not dangerous in the least especially since I'm pointing it at the ceiling anyways.I like to use it to add to the mood when something appropriately explosive happens but it's also a great way to get people like in the OP to shut up. Only ever used it for that purpose once but it did the job.
>Cleric>using a bladed weapon
>>92502452He's literally a DMYWPC put in the game to push the narrative along.
>>92502467More like assman
>>92502511No we don't. People just like changing definitions for things and we never get the memo.
>>92502999based
>>92502999That would fit both the Music of The Ainur (creation) setting background and the meta background of stuff like Kalevala/Kanteletar; lots of singing magic and Gandalf is basically Väinämöinen anyways. Tolkien was somewhat of a finnaboo.But retroactive "classing" for dnd is almost always silly anyways, can be fun though.
>>92502452Gandalf is an angel
>>92502452Who IS this guy? Would let him ravage my pussy (provided he used. A facial scrub, started eating vegetables and dropped the Gandlaugh nonsense)
>>92502999>>92504745Not every ainur is going to be a bard. Gandalf doesn't exert his power by singing, he only sings for pleasure. Luthien does crazy shit by singing and dancing, a lot of elves can do crazy shit by singing or dancing, Gandalf does crazy shit by appealing to the powers above him (usually Anor but not always).>But retroactive "classing" for dnd is almost always silly anyways, can be fun though.Yea, I think 'cleric' is a fine answer, it's not even a hot-take. It was a hot take back when not everyone was familiar with The Silmarillion and the people who were wanted to show off, now everyone reads the wikis and understands the basic concept of gandalf being an angel.
Is that the picture we use now when someone is objectively correct? Thanks for the patch notes, OP.
>>92502452I cant recall is Gandalf ever heals anyone, the closest thing I can think of is his ability to strengthen allies resolve through his ring of power. Aragorn would be the party healer/paladin. > Gandalf - Wizard> Aragorn - Paladin> Legolas - Ranger> Gimli - Fighter> Boromir - Fighter> Merry - Bard? > Pippin - Rogue cursed with shit rolls> Sam - Low tier Druid cause plants idk> Frodo - Bag of holding> Bill - The cooler bag of holding
>>92505532Legolas is a fighter too sorry
>>92502452He's an outsider with caster levels.
>>92505631more like Aasimar or something
Aasimar Celestial Pact Warlock
>>92504147The point isn't that definitions change, but that these definitions do not apply to the given situation in the first place. Autists try to apply the same rules to everything, which just isn't how the world works. LotR is not DnD so trying to apply DnD definitions to LotR is silly.
>>92505532Gandalf doesn't heal anyone but he casts searing light. He also rigs a few attack spells based on his mastery of the [fire] domain, and notably his fire-tricks seem to be based more on his own personal mastery (more like wizard stuff), whereas the bigger displays of power are all accompanied by a verbal appeal to some higher power. The hobbits start as common folk, but they're among the more talented and adventurous of common folk, I think a non-spellcasting rural ranger variant would be perfect but rogue also works. They've all been all over the shire, Sam is the stick-in-the mud of the party and even Sam has always wanted to see the elves. Merry and Pippin definitely take fighter levels later on. Sam probably takes fighter levels but that's less clear. >>92505551Ranger is a good fit for Legolas, he sees far and he passes without trace, he doesn't explicitly cast any spells but neither does Aragorn.
People who stat out non-D&D related fictional characters in D&D are vermin.
>>92504147>No we don'tYes you do
>>92503969Eru's favored weapon is a blade. Gandalf's domain grants him proficiency with blades
>>92507705>Eru's favored weapon is a blade[citation needed]
>>92505532Actually it's> Gandalf - Fighter with a few cantrips from his character origin > Aragorn - Fighter> Legolas - Fighter> Gimli - Fighter> Boromir - Fighter> Merry - Fighter with minimum INT score> Pippin - Fighter> Sam - Fighter> Frodo - Fighter with a cursed object> Bill - Fighter
>>92502452Okay, he is, but you could hardly call it clear.
>>92505703>>92505733An Aasimar would be more akin to somebody like Aragorn with distant Maiar heritage.Gandalf would be an NPC celestial.
>>92508615>Blade's name is Eruc BrooksCoincidence? I think not
>>92503544This, but also for works created after D&D.> Hurrr this character is not a wizard, he's a sorcerer because he was born with powers!> Hurr that's not a dragon, it's a wyvern!
>>92502485Better yet, they argue with semantics established after the fact. Tolkien was a Catholic. Non-Christian priests and clerics are wizards and sorcerers to them.
>>92509244Tolkien also went out of his way to play with semantics, and the ironies. It’s why his elves don’t believe in magic the same way humans do. It’s also why the infrastructure of Mordor is likened to sorcery. Different perspectives. This upsets a noticeable portion of his readers, who think magic is some specific thing.
>>92507322And just like vermin, these people are everywhere.
>>92504147No, you just try to define something that was never defined. And yes, you do struggle, and you do get mad about it.
>>92502541What are miracles, if not magic?
>>92503750Underrated, extremely based post.
>>92509379For Catholics, sorcery is everything beneficial in the short term and detrimental in the long term. In fact, the word sorcery in the Bible is a translation of the Greek word for pharmacy.
>>92502452Uh actually he was always a cleric. AND THAT'S A GOOD THING!!1
>>92510824Yep, druggists and poisoners were likened to witches and sorcerers for a long fucking time, up until quite recently.https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affair_of_the_PoisonsIt’s the same in Asia too, except they’re a bit more… buggy…https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gu_(poison) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/KodokuLiterally everything in nature has been treated as magic at one point or another, or magic-by-any-other-name.Even math.
>>92511013>bug eat bug lol
>>92508772Merry is the smart one though
okay
>>92502452Who cares?
>>92518175Autistic people?
>>92502452Acktchually Gandalf is a demigod and all his spellcasting abilities are innate.In lotr actual magic is artificial and therefore strictly evil
>>92521395>gods can’t be wizardsYou’re an idiot.
>>92502452Gandalf is a Fighter with ranks in Use Magic Device. Nothing that he casts is above 1st level, and most of his feats just involve cleverly applied skill checks.
>>92521395>>92522464lol yea, the good guys have both "art" and "machine", both of which are artifice. Gandalf's fireworks are "art" and not "machine", he doesn't spend his essence to make fireworks, he's just really good at it and loves doing it.
>>92522512Tolkien’s idea of magic is closer along the lines of perception, or a subjective angle. What you make of it.What is magic to one is not magic to another. It’s why the elves don’t believe in magic the same way men do. Magic doesn’t truly, really exist in any specific way. He’s been clear on that. It’s anything in nature at all. He hated modern man’s war against the beauty and mystery in nature, which was magical to him. Big Infrastructure is hideous and akin to black magic. In his eyes.
>>92522663How are elves and wizards not fucking magic
>>92522663Yea, you can simplify it by saying that "art" is people doing what they love, while "the machine" is people doing things that diminish themselves just because they're trying to become more powerful. So modern technology is mostly machine, there's very little 'art' in it, at least from his point of view.
>>92522689Elven magic isn’t magic to the elves. Wizardry isn’t wizardry to the wizards. Men look to the elves the same way the elves look to the wizards. Exposure logic. Magic is special.
Gandalf is a wizard
>>92522712This. Often magic isn’t magic to the magician. Even two magicians that believe in their magic will likely disagree over what constitutes it overall. Tolkien is correct in his assertion that magic is -supposed- to be a contradictory, disagreeable matter, that echoes mankind’s own confusions in history.
>>92522808Indistinguishable from magic, really. It’s why terms like the occult, esoteric, arcane, etc, even exist. Hiddenness.“Those glowy spots in the blackness above, what are they?”“I don’t know, Grug”“Must be the sky spirits!”“No, they are the gods!”“What are gods if not sky spirits?”“You just wouldn’t understand”How is that any different from stage magic? Except in this case, nature is the stage, and the universe, or existence, is the magician.No different from the physicist confronting the unknown: “Hmm, that’s strange, I wonder how that works…”Tolkien understood the heart of magic, something that most today have forgotten.
>>92522808>Tolkien is correct in his assertion that magic is -supposed- to be a contradictory, disagreeable matter, that echoes mankind’s own confusions in history.Reminds me of the Order of the Golden Dawn, which imploded after only like ten years due to infighting. Nobody could really settle on anything, and even Crowley rebelled against his former teacher. He eventually founded Thelema.
>>92523023Or just look at the Church… a self-hating, self-prosecuting Mages Guild by any other name…
>>92522922Yep. Magic IS “magic”. “No, that’s not magic, THIS is Magick!”.
>>92523063Warlock-exorcists were a big enough problem for the Inquisition that Luther complained they weren't doing enough.By the way you can absolutely bind a demon and force them to tell you things at the threat of sending them to Hell. When you do don't be surprised if they look like the most beautiful Aryans you've seen in your entire life.
>>92523602>When you do don't be surprised if they look like the most beautiful Aryans you've seen in your entire life.“Aww, it’s afraid :)”
>>92503544They are literally autistic retards who can't handle something being "uncategorized." If it's not categorized, they can't understand it.
Pathfinder is worse. Paizo actually thought magus meant battlemage, lmfao.
Dee en Dee has been an absolute fucking disaster on the human race.
>>92508772Even the fucking pony specs into fighter
>>92502452Gandalf is neither a wizard nor a cleric in the dnd sense. A wizard gains power from study while a cleric gains power from his or her gods. While subservient to the valar, his magic is derived from his own power. He is either a angel or other good outsider with a lot of spell like abilities or who casts spells like a pc spellcaster, or a aasimar sorcerer with a hell of a lot levels and a sense of modesty
>>92526520Shut. The fuck. Up.
Kind of example A of why classes are retarded.
>>92526520couldn't he be Celestial Pact warlock?
>>92526520>He is either a angel or other good outsider with a lot of spell like abilitiesThis./thread.
>>92530565>Celestial Pact warlockWhat an horrid idea. Not your example, the one of the designers to begin with. Not everything should have a counterpart.Warlocks should be on the fringe. The demonic. The wild/fey. The eldricht. The out of space. Nothing to do with celestials.
>>92523618They mock you until you tell them they'll be punished in Hell. That's why they're ramping up the surveillance state.
>>92530599I guess it stems from the "biblically accurate angels" trend that presented celestial as eldritch and incomprehensible (yet benevolent).
>>92526520You are genuinely a fucking loser, and you're not even right
>>92523063The is literally what exorcism is commanding a demon to do your bidding which was usually to leave the possessed's body.
>>92503750Alec, you need to get your lawyers to read this before you try to enter the Captcha.
>>92534497No! Stop! Do not speak heretical ironies! I will not have it!
Only the material finished during Tolkiens life is canon.Gandalf is a pretty low level wizard.Anything but that is essentially fanfiction
What makes a giant? Is it a race of giant humanoids, or anything gigantic at all? A blue whale is certainly a giant. Magic is kind of like that.
>>92531186But even in this case, I struggle to see a pact flavor.What they would bestow is more of an investiture I think - something like a Paladin or Avenger (D&D)/Inquisitor (PF) with no direct deity connection.
>>92532530explain how he is wrong
>>92530599Why? The class amounts to having lasers.
>>92502452He's a grey. It's in the name.
>>92502452None. He is a Solar.
dumb thread
dumb board
>>92502485>uhh thats not a dragon, it's a wyvern...
dumb site
>>92530599>>92530565>Celestial Pact warlockisnt that just a paladin
>>92545659
>>92502452Gandalf is a Planetar with most of his abilities and scores willfully lowered. He later gets his limiters released.
>>92505532">Aragorn>Ranger of the North>Leads the party through the wilds>understands treant language, birds, and commands respect from random horses and animals>Fighter>
>>92502452Tolkien said he's a wizard so he's a wizard.I trust Tolkien more than mentally ill sex perverts like Ed Greenwood and his ilk.
>>92547386This board apparently thinks Tolkien is a retard now. Once, it would die defending him, just like /tv/ or /lit/, but no more.“What do you mean Tolkien’s elves don’t believe in magic? Machines aren’t magic. That’s stupid. Tolkien’s stupid.”
>>92548071It’s a good litmus test to detect someone’s base intelligence, if anything
Um, bump.
>>92548071Faggot Tolkien "scholars" who treat him like an infallible god is part of the reason I got a bit soured on him.Also silmarillion/elf worshippers who won't shut up about either
>>92552525Tolkien "scholars" aren't even correct most of the time, or are highly suspect. Just look at the Tolkien Society.
>>92553371I know a faggot obsessed with LotR and the Silmarillion who is a terminal elffag who saw zero problem with black Aragorn and had more problem with him "having a beard".Faggots get so obsessed with tiny minutiae that no normal human being cares about in the setting to the point they forget the basic shit or basic logic.
What Gandalf is specifically in the setting doesn't matter at all, he's the stereotypical image of a Wizard. At least until he comes back after fighting the Balrog.Fantasy tabletop and games that forget that classes are supposed to be focused on narrative archetypes immediately become less engaging imo. Yes yes, your 'wizards' are singing ghost spirits that serve an elder god or biopunk F1 pitcrew mechanics or something. Nobody fucking cares dude your ideas are not that impactful.
>>92553697Nope. Cleric.
>>92557148Yep. Faggot.
>>92553371I had a stroke reading all of this
>>92502452"And clearly ye be a Lug."
shit thread
>send FIVE angels to make sure Morgoths girlfriend doesn't respawn>3 fuck off and play around>1 turns evil>the one who was midget tossing actually gets something done
Gandalf is a bard.
Gandalf is a tard.
>>92553371This image is highly misleading. It comes from a seminar where the theme was "Tolkien and Diversity", and most of the papers are on that theme.I guess if you think that even accepting papers about racism and LGBT issues from a "woke" perspective is damning then whatever, but getting the impression that this is all that the Tolkien Society ever talks about would be wrong.It's telling that whoever made the screenshot arbitrarily decided to select the year 2021.This is the program from the upcoming 2024 seminar, whose theme is "Tolkien’s Romantic Resonances"
>>92553582>obsessed with tiny minutiae that no normal human being cares about in the setting to the point they forget the basic shit or basic logic.you sure he wasn't just autistic
>>92510558miracles are from the intercession of God. Magic is demonic and a perversion of the natural order
>>92502452Gandalf (originally spelled Gundulf) was a monkhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gundulf_of_Rochester
sixth day dump
>>92502452The face of tg
>>92502452Mr Porthos, you are in a quiet again. Please calm down.
>>92503969>dumbest class restriction ever appears
>>92584473Kek, fellow wod enjoyer
>>92572559That’s just like your opinion man
>>92572617Monks are clerics.
