Fantasy Trip is a better D&D than D&D
Wow anon, those books look so cool.Can you tell me more about them?
>>92509717lmao alright grandpa, let's get you to bed
>>92509735http://branya.puremagic.com/ITLOCR.pdf
>>92509838
>>925098381980?Damn this is oldThanks for the pdf though
>>92509735Fantasy Trip is Steve Jackson's take on D&D, and is a large part of the evolutionary bridge between D&D and GURPS.
Sell it to me. Why is it better then OD&D?
>>92509717When every TTRPG has the same problems and are somehow good from the shelf when good little referees do good little things for their good little groups, how can anyone say any one TTRPG is better than the other?
>>92509735>>92509969>no levels, instead you get custiomizable character creation by selecting talents and spells>only 3 attributes, each one being equally important for a character>very tactical combat, positioning and strategy taking a huge part of it>3d6 resolution which means a less swingy game
>>92510696do you practice at being stupid or does it come naturally?
Might as well post the main adventure it came with.
>>92509887I see, any reason to play it now or is GURPS better?
This is awesome - thanks!Would you happen to have the initial books - Melee and Wizard? I have never played GURPS before, but I'd like to try this...
>>92512773share thread is your friend
>>92513602Seconded.This all does look and sound cool…I may need to add this to my list of “hope to play one day”s
>>92512773nta but Advanced Melee and Wizard already have the rules from Melee and Wizard.
>>92513708Oh, thanks - I just thought they were expansions which didn't encompass the original rules sets.
>we never got the full rules for Starleader>>92514504Original Melee and Wizard only have combat rules, Advanced added the roleplay parts.
>>92514707That game was so bad it made Metagaming go out of business
>>92512359Not OP, but IMO? Just play Dungeon Fantasy RPG.
>>92511774The only thing I practice at is confronting people with the most commonly expressed faulty logic, in order to expose its faults.The fact that so many people have to deflect, and how nobody actually applies this logic consistently is very telling.You can't call out D&D 5e's faults because "rewrite what you don't like", and "every TTRPG has the same issues", but then such people are strangely silent when their vocal diarrhea is recited in other context without bias.Since the logic doesn't hold up with every TTRPG, it's pretty clear to see they're full of shit. But they're never going to learn, and they're never going to look at things without their shitty D&D brainrot getting in the way, so I guess I am pretty stupid, yeah.But if these points get nauseating enough to see, then maybe they'll stop being used.
>>92510696>>925192605e babies have a particular delusion that "system doesn't matter", when it absolutely does. No game system is perfect for any particular audience, even the one they aim for, but some are a lot closer then others.You know when I stopped running 5e? When a player started to complain I used more DMs Guild stuff then Hasbro stuff, and that I had built up like 70 pages of house rules of my own beyond that.I started running 5e out of frustration with 3e. My 5e house rules were no fewer than my 3e house rules, and I found myself constantly converting 2e and 3e stuff.That said - I only use D&D when I want D&D flavoured gaming. Because last I checked, the iconic AD&D 1&2 and 3e core spells, and prepared spellcasting (slots or spell levels) aren't available in GURPS. Also, GURPS magic items are kind of bland compared to AD&D and 3e magic items.Other systems for other things, but if what I want falls in a d&d genre, that means AD&D or some kind of 3e.
>>92509887>the evolutionary bridge between D&D and GURPSI would say that TFT was Steve Jackson take on d&d and then the chassis with which subsequently (in 1985 using the "in the labyrinth" supplement as base) made GURPS. TFT is gurps granddad, not a bridge with d&d.
>>92509861there is recently made remakeon side note I hate it for graphics making me feel older than I am
>>92514707>added the roleplay parts.In the Labirynth (IIRC title) expanded it even more
>>92509717That's such a low bar that it's practically on the ground.
Posting that one TFT-clone form Dark City
These PDFs are really awesome! Out of curiosity, do you have any with monsters? I'm getting a good grasp of how it all works - and I've gleaned some of the monster refs in the material. I'd really like to convert some D&D critters into this.
>>92519398This is actually a more difficult problem than just "a particular delusion" that "system doesn't matter." At one level, it's propaganda: they have received messaging that someone can do anything with D+D. But where did this come from? How do we counteract it? At another level, it's critical mass: no other system has the sheer quantity of homebrews. Is the solution to this issue therefore orthogonal: either advertise specific optimal solution/setting combos or pick an alternative and crank homebrew for that? I'm happy that you at least get to do 2e/3e; even though I'm not as, uh.... experienced in life... as some of the other anons here, 2e and 3e feel like "real D+D" to me more than any other editions.
>>92511302A bell curve is not the selling point you think it is.
>>92523453Yes, it is. Games are better when they have a more fair probability.
>>92523453nta but I turn my nose as soon as I see a d20 roll for resolution
>>92509717Proto-GURPS
>>92511302I never liked ST being the main HP attribute nor IQ being the main way to get new skills, You either get super geniuses or super tanks in late game, besides it's just weird to have Wizards gymrats just to cast more spells.
>>92511302IQ being the only way to get Talents and Spells kinda suck though, late game characters all end up investing everything in IQ and you end up with a party of IQ 25 geniuses who can pass any perception check.
>>92523080The solution in terms of discourse on this board is to make their inane defenses and deflections so nauseatingly often that nobody wants to see it any more.They may not learn to see things beyond their D&D-tinted goggles, but they'll at least be shut down in conversation a lot quicker.
>>92522377If you can find the old Space Gamer magazine there was an article about converting DnD monsters to TFT system.
>>92529619>>92522377
>>92529619Legacy Edition also has a book full of pre-converted ones called Old School Monsters.
>>92527214>late game>still throwing jump scares at the group
>>92509717Nah, D&D is king of resource management dungeon crawling. Trying to play it is anything else makes it total shit.
>>92530419Thanks bruh! :)
I really love the Melee and Wizard systems and how rich but accessible the combat is (and how easy it is to chargen). But goddamn if my only attempt at running TFT proper didn't end almost immediately with what should have been an extra easy fight going completely south. I taught my group the combat ruled with a series of arena style fights and then let them keep their characters and earned experience into the actual game, let them apply new perks in accordance with the new rules. I put them up against two crooked constables in a tavern with completely subpar stats and just like some leather armor and short swords and one lucky shot on a guards part just completely failure cascaded the game. The targeted player got that massive damage attack penalty which prevented them from effectively returning blows or attempting some kind of maneuver. Another player fumbled so bad his weapon went flying, which a constable then promptly picked up. And with the low HP pools and high damage everything does it was over in live three rounds.Definitely a bit of rotten luck, too, but goddamn is the game significantly more lethal than even OD&D was, and at least that had the benefit of ~1D6 more HP per level. This, that low HP ain't going away, and I can't really how imagine how something like a dungeon even gets delved without racking up a pile of bodies.
>>92534554>Trying to play it is anything else makes it total shit.What do you mean?You can just rewrite what you don't like, unless you're some kind of rules lawyer video games autist who needs a RAW book to hold his hand like a little baby bitch.It's good for anything and everything, even the stuff you have to make yourself, because it does the things it doesn't do, and you can ignore how bad it's written and how people can abuse it, because it doesn't do the things it doesn't do.It's the world's best TTRPG.
>>92524782If the outcome is consistent then why roll at all?
>>9253882599% of the problems bitch about in D&D are a direct result of them not playing the game as a resource management dungeon crawler with the reason the characters clearing dungeons is for loot because that's basically their job.You can show horn that system to do a lot, but the cracks show as soon as you move away from that style of play. Literally use a different system if you don't want resource management dungeon crawling as the big focal point.
>>92538943I have never played this game but you clearly don't understand what a bell curve is if you think "consistent = same every time"
>>92539038Are you so much a fucktard that you don't recognize being consistent means that you get the same result routinely?
>>92539089>routinelyroutinely doesn't mean "the same every time" either.
>>92539108Routine is a FIXED sequence.Routinely means it follows a fixed sequence.Why are people so shit at admitting when they are wrong?
>>92539202No one believes words actually mean things anymore.
>>92539202a routine can have variety in it. It's not 100% fixed.And either way, you're talking about dice, not your breakfast.
>>92534554>Trying to play it is anything else makes it total shit.I just liked the DnD DMG book for all the cool tables and generated stuff for TFT.
>>92523453Yes it is.
>>92517858naw... MGC went under because Howard Thompson decided to take a bit of a break from gaming after founding Games Research Group, Inc., a spin-off from Metagaming in 1983. By 1984 he had stopped answering all phone calls and shortly afterwards disappeared completely. To this day no one knows what happened to him including Steve Jackson whom he had worked closely with at MGC
>>92523080>where did it come fromNo idea.>how do we counteract itI don't think that's possible. I think you just run games you actually like instead.>experienced in lifeI'm not that old yet. But yeah, I'm 35, and married with a kid. I'm not fresh out of university anymore.Just focus on stuff D&D is bad at if you want other people to experience other games. So, not a high power curve class + level game, and probably not a dungeon crawler. As much as I think dungeon fantasy is neat, ultimately I just see it as a box of bits to use in a GURPS fantasy game with little to do with dungeons, pulling more from low tech.CJ Carella's Witchcraft maybe. Do some urban fantasy. Or Urban Fantasy Hero. Or GURPS monster hunters. Or GURPS Hellboy. Or Buffy / Angel. All of these cover something different than D&D, that D&D is shit at. Pick one that does it in a way you enjoy. Or run your SciFi game of choice. For me that would be GURPS. Grab stuff from Psi Wars, Ultra Tech, Space, Transhuman Space, Spaceships, and maybe from GURPS mecha or traveller, to taste. YMMV. But directly competing with D&D and hoping to take its market dominance is an unreasonable goal. Pathfinder is the closest you'll get, and it was a fluke.Don't get me wrong, The Dark Eye and Rolemaster and Stormbringer are fun. But they're unlikely to ever become the mainstream fantasy game pick. The Fantasy Trip - I lean more towards actual GURPS for what it does. Same for Runequest. Either RM or GURPS.
>>92539009>use a different system.I have yet to find another system with the d&d magic items and spells for me to run a forgotten realms novel inspired faction game with, let alone one better for it than 2e and 3e. So they're what I use for that.3e also has so many compatible variant subsystems that it can be far more than a dungeon crawler with the right mix of published variant rules. And d20 Conan is a decent Conan game, assuming you don't hate 3e's combat.I also don't know too many other RPGs that cover hunting and fishing, construction, nation and guild management, running a business, trade negotiations, and all manner of wilderness survival stuff, multiple ways, often as decent-sized books.>>92523080The OGL + DMs guild + market inertia grow the amount of 3e/5e 3pp, and that in turn grows the appeal of both. SJG tends to lock shit down. Mailanka can't sell psi wars books, even though its his work. He has to use crowd funding and release it for free. So GURPS stays very niche. TFT is simpler, but its trying to compete with D&D and OSRs and Dungeon Fantasy and Several other games in the most saturated RPG niche.Marketing + Fan support + 3pp dev support makes a big difference.
>>92539089Getting an 8-13 ~2/3 of the time is not a 10.5 all the time. The roll could still go badly or you could get lucky. Just less likely than some games.
This thread should be up instead of a coomer thread
This was an awesome thread. Never heard of this - managed to webcrawl all of picrel. Now it's time to read. Coomer stuff is kinda gay.
>>92511302You forgot learning new skills by studying them so you don't have someone magically learning a talent from thin air once he level up.
>>92526710Most people I played used Wizard ST rules, which I never liked since it brakes the entire risk of magic. I always preferred the ST 0 leading to unconsciousness and eventually death, it still makes losing ST dangerous but still not making wizards die so easily.
What's different in the new edition?
Advanced or not?
>>92554205New monsters and spells and balance adjustments for most part. Full list of changes: https://www.hcobb.com/tft/legacy_first.html
>>92557612Read the thread
another version of that TFT Traveller from the Traveller trove
and TFT starships
>>92553935Which of these is best to read? I only have time for one book.
>>92570620Adv Melee, Adv Wizard and ITL are all the base of the game.
Fantasy trip has that same cool mechanic as ogre
>>92509717what are the books needed to play this thing? seems likeis there no core rulebook?
>>92578969the three books on the top line are the core books
>>92511302>very tactical combat, positioning and strategy taking a huge part of itHow?Can I use minis with it?Please greeentext as many rules as you can.
