Why is it the best RPG of all time??
It's not, but it's one of the best at capturing the feeling of an adventure, because it places a big emphasis on The Scenario and The Location, which is a very positive thing in the culture. A location and the wild shit that happens in it is a much bigger part of what makes an adventure an adventure than the characters. "This one time when..." tall tales.
>>92538016Because it's not goddammed retarded corpo slop like GW and WOTC
>>92538016"This party of adventurers explored a dungeon, the wizard accidentally turned the barbarian into a chicken, but they got out with the treasure anyway after defeating an ancient fire breathing manatee and his demonic minions. Oh, and the elf got swallowed whole by a giant naked mole rat, RIP" makes for a much better session than "the characters steamrolled Strahd after listening to his tragic backstory for 2 hours while meandering around in his castle effortlessly killing everything in sight while quipping at each other like some sort of marvel movie"
>>92538080>just 3.x againI beg to differ.
>>92538016Because, much like the best TTRPG in the world, you can just rewrite what you don't like, and give it credit for the things that weren't included with the product they expected money for.Every TTRPG has the same problems as D&D 5e, and good daddy DMs rewriting what they don't like for their good groups makes it the world's greatest TTRPG, so these fixes make any other TTRPG equally as good.
>>92538496Nah, 5e fans deserve to be bullied.
>>92538701Yeah, that's why I'm blowing holes in their faulty logic wherever I can.They will need to either admit that 5e is bad on a structural level, or that there's no such thing as a bad game and revoke their right to call anything else shit.It won't happen, but their pathetic whining in response should still be entertaining.
>>92538016Life.
>>92538016>best role-playing game>ergo a game that best encourages and equips one to play a roleSo dismiss anything that doesn’t have a decent social aspect>bestMeaning most fun/least painfulDread, with a competent GM (but that goes for any system in this scenario).>investment in role is paramount for gameplay>no math to make combat stale, slow, and predictable>skill/luck balanced gameplay to create and maintain suspense>system forces regular events and crossroadsThe only downside is that it works poorly for multiple sessions without tweaking one of the major mechanics.
>>92538016I was actually looking to see if there was a thread about this or a general dedicated to RPGs that aren't popular enough to have their own thread. I guess I'll use this thread to gage people's thoughts, although inflammatory OPs can backfire
>>92540313>So dismiss anything that doesn’t have a decent social aspectyou the player bring the social aspect numbnuts. Do you need a rule that reminds you to breathe as well?
>>92538016It's full of modern RPG design elements like luck points and being able to scale/modify your abilities as you get more powerful. Is "OSR" just surface level aesthetics and a reactionary dislike for Critical Role and Session Zero type gaming culture?
>>92540994OSR doesn't mean 'rejecting anything post-2e." Shadowdark is OSR's darling child for the moment and relies a lot on DC skill checks. It's more a style of play with nonlinear procedural exploration, emergent narrative, and environmental problem solving. DCC has all that, even if it isn't BX or 1e.
>>92538228>DCC is 3.xlol. lmao even.
>>92538496>Every TTRPG has the same problems as D&D 5eobjectively false. 5e's main problem is that it's mechanically trying to be too many games for too many kinds of gamers. and Mearls basically said as much in an interview with Matt Colville.DCC doesn't have the 5e problem where you're having fun in spite of the game, not because of it, because it knows what it is. DCC has its own problems, but over-general mediocrity due to an identity crisis from overreaching on demographic because the corporates suits demand $100M in sales or they gut the brand like all their other non-Monopoly board games is not one of them.
>>92546212You'd be better off playing the Dying Earth rpg than this crap
>>92540354i literally just bought its core rules this week because i'd been reading on it and was really impressed.>>92540994it has luck points as a stat that represents one's divine favor, and moreover is used as a class resource. they're also, aside from said two classes, largely non-refundable. You get 10-ish points to spend over your whole career, and each one you spend makes you worse at future roll-under luck checks.it's not the same as D&D inspiration or Savage World Bennies. They don't flow like water and they don't exist to make your character the big damn hero with plot armor. They exist to give them a chance at all, and function as a ticking clock for how far your character can actually progress before something horrible inevitably befalls them because of this inadvisably dangerous profession they've chosen.>>92540994>being able to scale/modify your abilities as you get more powerful.Scaling with level I'll give you, but even OD&D had scaling, so I don't see what you mean there.As for modify, having literally just read it I have no idea what this is in regards to. You don't make a single decision about your character sheet that isn't you taking some action in the world, other than picking which funnel survivor's sheet to use, name, class (only if your character rolled human), and alignment. Wizard's don't even choose the spells they know. What the actual fuck are you talking about?
>>92538016>Why is it the best RPG of all time??Its FUDGE.Nothing comes close.
>>92546503>fudge player not only can't add dice numbers but can't readclassic
>>92546292why choose? you can do bothhttps://www.kickstarter.com/projects/devillich/dcc-dying-earth
>>92539153but what doth Life?
>>92538228>thinks it's 3.xso I see you've never opened the rulebook.
>>92538228DCC stopped being a 3.5 product back in 2012.It's trying to be a weird New School Revolution take on BECMI now, complete with ability score tables, race as class, and skills as a thing exclusive to rogues.the NSR changes are stuff like PbtA/WFRP Perils of the Warp style casting instead of spell slots including burning stats for bonus oomph, the whole luck stat thing, the class-specific scaling crit tables, and fighters and dwarves getting blank check to do one badass action movie thing each attack that hits if they roll high enough on their attack bonus die.Also arguably the funnel, I know they got the idea from tournament play meatgrinders, but it wasn't used as an integral part of character creation. "Roll 4 3d6 down the line commoners each and huck all 16 at tomb of horrors to see which ones stick, that's your party backstory" is not part of traditional play. Fun, but not traditional.
>>92546637It’s got over 80 modules now. That’s more than it ever did for 3E and probably more than TSR ever made.
>>92546656a lot of those are 3rd party / fanmade. I think the community has put more effort into the game than the writers. Tools like purplesorcerer do not usually exist for a game so small, meanwhile the game has had 10 printings and still doesn't answer if elves can have familiars or else are wizards supposed to automatically have find familiar, or how clerics are supposed to pick their starting spells.but yeah, definitely a lot of modules. though they're modules proper, just a few pages describing a single dungeon to drop into your world, not modern D&D adventure path 250pg campaigns. Though that's one thing I actually agree with colville on, a good thing. lvls 3-14 adventure paths are a slog, not to mention a pain to DM because of all the moving parts, and are specific to official published setting which means even more work making it fit. The only reason they took over is because WotC refuses to make the little ones anymore and have actively tried to kill off anyone who does on multiple occasions.Back to the topic at hand, i'd imagine even porting TSR modules over to it wouldn't be terribly hard. The adventures themselves should be nearly 1:1, and as for traps and unique statblocks, the HD and damage don't need any conversion, DCC's 3 saves map directly from Death, Breath, & Spell, and you can just Target 20 to convert descending to ascending AC.
>>92538496>>92538742Seek help.
Bought it a few months ago, convinced a couple of friends to try it, we're now playing 1-4 times per week, depending on availability.It's a lot of fun but god damn it's rippy
>>92546830No I counted 1st party modules, about half belong to the same system spin-offs like MCC, Lakhmar and Dying Earth amoung others. But they add onto the nearly 40 main DCC modules.
>>92546503> Nothing comes close. Wrong. Two others breathe the same air: Risus and FKR.
Got this for dirt cheap at PAX. Haven't run it but the size of the book and stories I've heard are a little intimidating
>>92546247D&D 5e's main problem is that it isn't a game.
>>92548679Most the book is just spelltables, which only catsers will use, and even then only some of them.
>>92538016What adventure did you play? >>92540994>can't tell if anon came across darkbad in the wild and didn't realize it was a joke or if anon is pretending to be retarded in the hopes others will not realize darkbad is a joke DCC has never been osr. The guy who made it doesn't think its osr.
>>92538016DCC dosent have the class list to be the goated RPG. 13th age is flawed but it has all the classes I want and some extras. I am tired of warlord not existing.
>>92538016The D&D pastiche that lives half in my notes and half in my head. Your favorite game can't even compete.
It's kickass.
>>92538016Just because you've masturbated to it enough times that the rulebook won't open anymore, doesn't even place that crusty old fifi bag of a game in the top thousand of all time.
>>92539153Not, if you don't roll good attributes the game is rigged from the start.
>>92538016GURPS
>>92548727Well what is it then?>>92540994>dragon baculumlmao>orc cannot do clever thingsgot his own parodic virtue signaling fucked up.nevertheless got me to kek multiple times, and i'm actually considering stealing the money/gear system with some tweaking for something entirely different.
>>925486791. the author editorializes and waxes unnecessarily verbose and poetic a lot a la gygax. It definitely adds flavor, sure, but there's something to be said for brevity and clarity.2. as >>92548743 says, there is literally 160 pages worth of magic rules, mostly description since each spell has a table of scaling results based on your roll: 1 to 32+. Since spells characters have are randomly determined, and the full rules about how it works is there in the spell, there's no point in reading any of them until someone needs to cast that specific one, aside from the few that have worldbuilding implications like School Specialization and Patron Bond.3. another 40 pages is bestiary, with another 20 of appendices.2. the core book also contains a starter adventure at the very back.>>92550500DCC doesn't need a dedicated warlord class, every Warrior is a warlord if he chooses to be that turn. Mighty Deed Die baby.
>>92556103a combat stunt is not issuing an order. Warlord epitomizes tactical options. It is about selecting the best tool for the situation, not making one up. We want chess, not calvinball
>>92555487>Well what is it then?A narrative system with suggestions for dungeon crawling, wilderness exploration, and interplanar travel.
>>92538016>best rpg>gay faggot meme diceIf the dice weren't so fucking retarded it might have a chance at being decent. Instead it's just trash.>b... but you can divide a d20 by 3 then round up and multiply by 2 for the d34 bro and you can take a d10 cross out two numbers and reroll 0s for the d7 bro and you can...No. Shut the fuck up.
>>92556306>a combat stunt is not issuing an order.>Mighty Deeds of Arms>Types of Deeds>There is no limit to the types of Deeds that a warrior can perform. Any situation-appropriate specialized attack should be encouraged. To help provide some general framework for understanding the concept behind Mighty Deeds of Arms, we have provided seven general categories below. These are merely suggestions to give a sense of possibility and scale. The guidelines that follow should help the judge decide which benefits to apply to a high deed die roll. Creative players will certainly come up with new Deeds. Encourage and allow this.>Rallying Maneuvers>The mighty hero, bounding to the front of combat, can restore order to broken ranks. A bellowing war cry, a heroic charge, a frothing bloodthirsty maniac exemplifying bloody prowess: the right rallying maneuver by a great warrior can make an army fight better than it ever has before.Wrong both in that Deeds can be literally anything you can dream up, and wrong in that even one of the examples is doing classic 4e warlordy things, making his men resist fleeing in fear.>It is about selecting the best tool for the situation, not making one up.So what you're saying is you're regularly blind to like all but 3 specifically enumerated options at your disposal. Some general.>>92556371nothing with that much crunch, and especially crunch that regularly hinders a cohesive satisfying narrative, is a narrative system.also, 5e barely has rules for any of those 3, especially the first two compared to older versions. If anything i'd call it a particularly tedious combat sim with a skill system for use between combats.And hell, specifically skirmish combat at that, they couldn't be assed to put ship-to-ship combat rules in their spelljammer supplement deeper than "ship weapons have X to hit deal X damage but take 3 actions to fire. ships have Y AC and Y HP. But you should probably just drive closer and hit them with your sword."
>>92556651it doesn't use a d34. It's every number up to 8, then even numbers up to 16, then 20, 24, 30.As for why, it's the exact same thing Savage Worlds does just more granular, like 3.5's pile of +X bonuses but you're never guaranteed success because you have a +22 to a roll. Better at thing, go up 1 die size. Worse at thing go down. Easy. And then unless it was a weapon attack or skill check, you probably check some giant result table.As for why those specific upper numbers, it's because they're x2 of the lower ones, and there's effects where you replace rolling say 1d20, with 2d10, getting a bell curve instead of a equal distribution.so really it's 3, 4, 5, 6 (3x2), 7, 8 (4x2), 5x2, 6x2, 7x2, 8x2 (4x2 x2), 10x2 (5x2 x2), 12 x2 (6x2 x2 (3x2 x2 x2)), 30 (basically only used for DM-facing tables)In a term, Prime Factorization.also, if you don't want to buy the weird shaped zocchi dice and "roll a d8 and reroll 8s=d7" is too much math for your smooth brain, just use barrel dice. Or a program, this is year of our lad 2020+4 after all.
>>92556739Nice strawman post. >Warlords have 3 options in all of 4ea do whatever you want button is not an excuse to stop doing game design
>>92545589Shadowdark is reddit osr.It has made zero impact on the OSR with its design choices, or ideas.All respect for selling product to 5E players.
>>92556880wow that's really dumb
>>92556910It is for something trying for oldschool vibes, where most of the game is built around, and i quote, "bear in mind the principle that anything can be attempted."it sounds like what you want is some kind of fire emblem card game where your deck is always in your hand. in which case
>>92556948What's your solution then? Bounded accuracy?
>>92556910
>>92556981Right, using retarded meme dice is the only solution. No game has ever gotten by without the d30.
It's an alright game, but after running it for 8 sessions I just want to play an actual OSR game instead.
>>92556739>nothing with that much crunch>5e barely has rules for any of those 3There is no crunch, and are no rules, they're explicitly stated as being suggestions.To invoke authority, even Gygax himself said they're suggestions. That spirit has carried across the editions even after his involvement and the general disenchantment towards him the fans developed. It would be foolish to suggest otherwise, especially since I've been continuously told to "rewrite what I don't like" over the past two years.D&D is a narrative system with lots of suggestions, as I said.
>>925569864e was good before this marketing came true. I preferred the early era where skills and non combat were basically freeform RP and combat was explicit. >>92556972I hate fire emblem ( I lowkey wish I did not but I do. ) I dislike that it is more about leveling one specific character up than it is about working together as a unit. You are actually extremely accurate in me wanting to play a game like MTG but without cards and hands. I want something like 4th edition but iterated on heavily. I enjoy things like ICON, Lancer, 13th Age and Gubat Banwa. 13th age is very nice for mixing OSR and new school and is specifically a very nice game for me to DM where I don't have to deal with players beta tendacies and can run my damn game at a brisk pace. Luck as a stat is definitly something DCC did well. Trying to dab on the d20 is not. I hate that so many people want to duel each other in DnD but the mechanics don't support a compelling duel. I want to see a future wargame that has evolved out of chess instead of out of calvin ball. sadly 4e is just rocket-tag with extra steps thanks to things like a/d/e/u and action points. Good job on being psychic though. Typical OSR enjoyer.
>>92557110>I hate fire emblemThen my take that there are only two good official Fire Emblems and three good ROM hacks shouldn't piss you off at all.
>>92557129What are the good Fire Emblems? I am not above playing a romhack before the original. People don't need to play brawl to enjoy project M, they don't need to play half life to enjoy counter strike. One of my favorite tactical systems, TTRPG or VRPG is tactics ogre: one vision. Very good romhack. Good Cordellion action economy. Tanking could be better but its lightyears ahead of most of the genre in vrpg form.
>>92557142>>92557129https://theholocaust.bandcamp.com/track/fire-emblem delisted wutang clan with mad /co/ refrences. Wutang clan funds project M
>>92557006no game has done exactly what it does without using a d30, which is try to have its cake and eat it too, by having both wide scaling, enough to accommodate very large bonuses if a PC decides to spellburn 20 points of ability score and be crippled for a month, and yet still no guaranteed successes, meaning actions always carry at least some risk.design choices aren't made arbitrarily.
>>92557110Final Fantasy Tactics then?
>>92557142Official: Fire Emblem 7 ("The Blazing Blade") and *very arguably* Fire Emblem 8 ("The Sacred Stones"). Fire Emblem 6 counts, too, but you need to read Japanese or get the English patch.All of them are GBA.ROM hacks: Crimson Arm, Vision Quest, and Andaron Saga. I would like to amend this by saying there are lots of good *unfinished* Fire Emblem hacks, but it's just that these three I mentioned happen to be full releases.
>>92557286FFT is too shallow. Good for a play or a replay, not good enough for a campaign
>>92557275oh, and>inb4 adding a 5% fail chance from homebrewing natty 1s on skills and saves is adding any real risk, when 95% of the time it's still guaranteed unmitigated successHaving PbtA style graduated results matters too. d30 means overwhelming success is possible when with anything lesser it wouldn't be, and failure is as small as it can be but IS still possible, and yet that medium-high results are what's strongly likely. With just flat bonuses, that's not possible. To even hit a DC 30, you need at minimum a +10, which means anything 11 and below DC are automatically passed, things can never go horribly wrong, and in fact you've got over a 50% chance of passing anything below a 20. Locks and ACs that were DC11 when you started out need to start magically being DC21 to keep up. But if you don't scale at all or scale very low, then your characters abilities can never significantly escalate, and the difference between being good and being bad are barely noticeable.Using scaling dice means you can just use the same charts and statblocks with static DCs. a d10 can only reach so far, a d30 can reach all the way to the top where the crazy stuff is.And having more than just the arbitrary polyhedral dice that gygax could find a manufacturer for means you don't have to have savage worlds/tales of equestria exploding dice, nor the massive jumps in efficacy where after you pass d12 the only option left is d20.
>>92557470>Locks and ACs that were DC11 when you started out need to start magically being DC21 to keep up.The locks aren't supposed to keep up, you're supposed to move on to harder locks, that's the whole point of scaling up. A character with +10 should still encounter DC11 locks and should be confident in his ability to get around them.
>>92548679How much and what came with it? I passed by it at PAX but only saw Mutant Crawl Classics on sale. Was considering the $40 first time fan kit online.
>>92538016GURPS, unironically and unapologetically
>>92562034>advocates for a system of near limitless books>can't readlamo
>>92561631MCC is a shoddy mess. don't buy it.Goodman games is good at adventure design outright, and definitely good at V I B E, and certainly have a lot of neat ideas, but their system creation is a disjointed mess with no thoughts toward implications with other mechanics, worse even than 5e phb. Either their editor is a lazy hack, or else only has technical writing experience and has no understanding of tabletops themselves enough to actually catch mechanical problems, only grammatical ones. Nobody is going "wait, but how..." or "wait, but doesn't that mean...?"DCC had a lot of player testing, so was able to iron out most, though not all, of its flaws in that regards, MCC got none of that because they figured the engine had already been ironed out form DCC. Heck, it's not even complete. Oozing style, no substance.
>>92565628You misunderstood, I've read your question and the answer is still the same.Play better games, newfag
>>92540354i've been thinking about starting /dccg and seeing if it gets any traction
>>92567368>answers a what to a why questionoh no it's retardedGURPSfags are the worst part of GURPS by a country mile
>>92567081Probably should have clarified I meant I was considering the DCC fan kit and not the MCC one, the vibe/setting doesn't interest me right now. But thanks for the warning anyway.
>>92556880>Or a program, this is year of our lad 2020+4 after all.>OSR>Not exclusively using physical game materials, without a single screen in a sightNo thanks
InB4
>>92569511there's been ones years before. they don't tend to last long, but then again, more people are leaving D&D now, so it might.>>92573959>implying dcc is osrdon't make me sick /osrg/ on you
>>92576327they do like their buzzwords i'll give you that.
>>92576327Didn't know jeffro wrote for DCC too. No wonder it's such garbage.
>>92538016Because it does what D&Don't
>>92556880The main difference is Savage Worlds doesn't use RETARD DICE
>>92576508/osrg/ is a pissing contest, always has been and always will be, but they're quality posters when they aren't arguing about what OSR means. Call it "nu-sr" if you want, who knows, maybe that term will eventually catch on outside of /osrg/.
>>92538016>best RPG of all time>classes and levelsahahahahahahahahhaahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahaha *breathes*ahahahahahahahahhaahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahaha
>>92583466NSR is what the people that actively identify by the moniker go.Tactical Studies RulesOld School RenaissanceNew School Revolution.
>>92586512yeah but that's stuff like Into the Odd and Maze Rats and Cairn and Knave or Tunnel Goons.
>>92583466nothing more fun than sending a non sequitur into /osrg/ and seeing them reinvent rolemaster for the nth time
