>>92562211
The ST was thankfully nice enough to say "exalts don't get morning sickness and shit", so I got nothing from that. The main issue was the RP angle, in where my character was very ambitious towards her goals but at the same time not wanting to piss off her Lunar (shotgun) husband by putting the child in danger. It was also important to the Lunar as part of his exaltation story was surviving Thorns when it was invaded, in which both his wife and child died, and didn't think he could deal with the heartbreak of losing people close to him again.

Even after the child was born, finding care was also tricky. Going to raid the war camp of an asshole Lunar? Gimme a bit guys, I need to find a babysitter who's a good wet nurse and can also fight off the assassins sent after the kid.

Things got easier when we did what all exalts did, settle down by finding a nice Kingdom.

>>92562419
Exalt pregnancy is a non-issue until the last month or two. They don't even show really until then. Did you never read the older DB books?

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Why is there a cute blue mage in my Exalted OP?

Also re cooking charms discourse, Lunars should be able to loan God Body Consumptions from food from prey they've beat.

>>92562702
No, but I did read 2e where they had a bit about it. Including the bit for longer pregnacies for exalts (in a quicker game I felt this. I think we burned through three and a half stories before my character popped)

It's not mentioned in Ex3, which made me worry that some ST's will do dumb things with it. Mine didn't thankfully.

>>92563831
If they're using any 3e "lore" they probably already failed several tests of intelligence anyway.

Been reading Essence rules a lot recently, have some misgivings but overall it seems more playable than any other Exalted ruleset.

One quibble I'm having is, the Full Moon active anima power adds (Essence) successes to any Force or Fortitude non-attack roll, (build power and gambits are specifically allowed).

This strongly pigeonholes Lunar warriors into never using a withering attack. It's extreme at high essence (with no essence expenditure, a 5 Essence Full Moon averages 9.5 Power from an enhanced BP with 5 attribute and skill, for one more essence, using an Excellency they could withering a def 6 combatant for 8 on average with a light artifact dual wielding weapon; even with OVM 3, the best you can do with such a weapon, their floor is 3 power which is also the floor of the 5 bonus successes on a build power action, but you're significantly more likely to only get that consolation prize with the weapon. God for fucking bid they have defensive charms.).

Even at Essence 1 it makes BP slightly more efficient and it just gets more lopsided at every increase in Essence.

Surely "every full moon is an Iaijutsu strike one attack one kill samurai or a troop rallying commander" isn't an actual design goal?

To be clear, I'm not upset about the power level here, just the encouraged play style.

If you haven't developed a Resistance/Athletics Charm that lets you just shit out a baby at Mach 2 and instantly regen the damage so you can go right back to fighting, you're not getting pregnant right anyway.

>>92564010
>not using the baby as a meteor hammer with the umbilical cord
Pussy.

>>92562419
>mfw one of my PC's has had 7 children in 4 years
Solar women are built for big Lunar cock, apparently. Well, and one DB kid.

>>92563717
It was the first non-porn pick of my folder.

>>92564252
I am pretty sure I saw this over newgrounds.

>>92564402
>mfw one of my PC's has had 7 children in 4 years
Slut

>>92564667
The perils of abusing Celestial Bliss Trick.

>>92563970
>Full Moon
Full Moon have the literal worst set of anima powers in Essence, yes. Their Passive anima power is the worst Lunar passive, their Active anima power is the worst Lunar Active, and it's really hard to imagine their Iconic doing something noticeable.

It's made worse by the fact that they're competing directly with Casteless, which has the best Active anima power in the game.

>>92565615
Holy shit I just looked at it and I was thinking the Full Moon should maybe apply to Withering Attacks also but now I'm thinking "anything that relies on physical excellence" is actually the appropriate level of broadness. It definitely shouldn't exclude quick, Dexterity style Full Moons.

>>92565661
I do remember that, when I was tiering all the anima powers in Essence, Full Moons existed down in a tier they only shared with Dragonblood, and that the tier above them was also just Dragonblood and Liminals. They're really badly written. Casteless is really badly written too, but in the opposite way where they're too broad and powerful rather than un-powerful.

Currently, Full Moon excel as cheerleaders with a side of gambits and nothing else. They have bare minimum tankiness and are good at Build Power so they fit the role really well. Unironically the best path for them to take is to go down a line like Sagacity or Craft and start doing Force/Fortitude+Craft Prepare actions, building power for their allies who are better at delivering decisive attacks, and doing gambits like Force+Craft Reveal Weakness as a side thing when they overflow from BP. They might even make decent spellcasters, for all that spellcasting is pretty mediocre as a combat strategy, but focussing on stuff that's better outside-of-combat is probably their best bet anyway.

>>92564667
They're also from 3 different fathers.

>>92563970
I like Essence too and want to play a Full Moon, but>>92565615 is dead on the money. Full Moon anima powers are cute, but they are not that strong and it sure is peculiar.

It's really a shame, because Essence has imo the best core ruleset but the specifics of it are really bad, almost an inverse of 3e. Also some people here say that that Essence social system is a lot worse than 3e's, but in what way?

>>92567936
>Also some people here say that that Essence social system is a lot worse than 3e's, but in what way?
It's not necessarily worse so much as that it's problems are different and big. There are two, maybe three core issues with Essence's social system, and they can be broken down to hard bargain being entirely Storyteller-controlled, ignoring influence putting a high floor on the ability of characters to participate in the social system effectively, and the questionable third quibble is on whether people think virtues should exist or not.

>hard bargain
The problems with hard bargain being fully Storyteller controlled can be broken down further. It means each player has little to no agency in what their social influence is actually going to do, because even when they succeed at their social roll, having declared their intent and assigned where their threshold successes are being spent, the Storyteller still decides the other side of the hard bargain, and if they choose that side of the hard bargain what the result of it actually is. The player is essentially rolling dice to influence the Storyteller, rather than the character. Hard bargain resolves very well when a Storyteller character is making social influence against the player, and the Storyteller is giving the player options, and from experimentation it resolves well when the player uses social influence on an NPC and the player (instead of the Storyteller) chooses from options the NPC could react with as a hard bargain, but when the Storyteller both makes the options and chooses which to take it's not good.

>ignore influence putting a floor on social influence
Ignoring social influence is trivially easy and has almost no downside. Stopping people ignoring you is in many social Exalt's anima powers, but not all, and the only non-splat specific option for it is Fulminating Word, which is an upgrade that requires Essence 3. If you're not a social caste and you're not E3 you don't get to participate.

>>92569215
Social has sucked for Exaoted in every edition except 1e, and that's because 1e had no real rules for any of that shit.

I also continually find it supremely funny it takes literal magic to change anyone's mind in Exalted, meanwhile in shit like D&D it's like flipping a switch, when it should probably be the opposite.

>>92570206
>I also continually find it supremely funny it takes literal magic to change anyone's mind in Exalted
But it doesn't. What are you talking about, anon? You can instill new intimacies and weaken exiting ones with no magic needed. Completely changing someone's outlook on things is difficult, but that kind of thing definitely should be difficult. At least it should be difficult through mundane means. Social Charms not adding enough power to persuasion is a genuine problem with 3E, but the base social system is pretty good.

>>92570206
Wrong, 3e social system rules and is the only mechanical part of any edition of Exalted to ever be good.

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>>92570206
Despite their claims, WW never really grasped non-combat roles.

>>92570474
denying getting a coffee later and denying you give up the secrets of your best friend to a hated enemy costing 1 willpower is superbly retarded thoughbeit.

>>92570604
You're wrong though, I don't have an intimacy against getting you coffee, so I can't actually use a decision point to not do it. I have an intimacy of hating my most hated enemy, and loving my best friend, and valuing loyalty so I can REPEATEDLY ignore influence encouraging the latter.

>>92570406
>>92570474
That's a cool cope you have there but uhhmmmm 1WP. Whoops looks like anything you said I am immune to. Guess 3e's social system is just rancid shit like I thought. Want to try again in like a day?

>>92562277
I hate blue mages. What a waste of a premise. I get the monster carnival but why did they have to make them a limited job class that's incredibly unfun to level up. Oh wait this is exalted not FF14. You should use better pictures next time.

Copying powers to some extent is fine but it's purposefully weak. It'll let you do weird things but it's not really a path to power.

>>92572485
That's not how it works in a real game. Maybe you should play the game sometime.

>>92570206
I thought I already made this post, but I do not see it. I never got a warning about breaking some sort of rule, and don't see how the post would violate any rules, so I'm going to assume my memory is wrong and basically make it again. Despite my problems with the CofD social system, I did like how Doors meant you couldn't immediately convince someone of something.

>>92572485
Alright dumbass, let's consult the actual text:

>Spending Willpower

>Even if a character’s Resolve is overcome, he may still have an opportunity to deny the influence. If the influence is trying to change how he feels, such as by creating, destroying, or changing his Intimacies, he may spend a point of Willpower to:
>• Stop a new Intimacy from being created. Although the character is moved, he just can’t afford to invest himself in a new person or cause!
>• Stop a Major or Defining Intimacy from being weakened. Even though the influence was convincing, the character just has too much invested in the Intimacy to give up now, even if he wants to!
>• Reject a successful inspire action—the character uses his force of will to deny his swelling passions.

Okay so spending a WP on its own stops

1) Changing your intimacies.
2) Inspiring emotions.

Huh, weird, get me a coffee is literally not on here. These rules don't apply to the persuade action, so fucking strange.

Moving on

>Decision Points
>Refusing successful influence to make the character do something is trickier.

Nah, couldn't be, this dipshits anon says it's just a WP.

>When a character fails to resist such influence with his Resolve, he enters into a special state called a Decision Point.

Interesting, what is a decision point?

>In the Decision Point, the player must choose an Intimacy and explain how it justifies resisting that specific influence.

Oh like, I'd need an intimacy of "I serve no one" like an arrogant king or something to refuse to do a minor persuade action like "Make me a cup of coffee please?" but a request like "Tell me where your best friend is hiding so I can kill him" would require an intimacy like "My Circle is my family" or "Steve is my best friend" or "I hate this guy who wants to kill Steve."

>>92572712
huh, well I guess because that one guy talked about coffee, it means that decision points being ez as shit and muh 1 wp means it's a perfect social system. fuck off.

>>92572565
It lets you do stuff you could never do otherwise, but for most goals it won't make them easier to accomplish.

Stealing, borrowing, learning or whatever, charms from Eight Legged Dashi, celestial god of Spiders might let you mind control spiders, create spiders and silk from raw essence, gain a venomous bite or climb like Spider-Man, but a Solar with survival charms can already convince animals to do literally anything just without telepathy, they could also breed spiders with survival charms in even greater numbers, create finer and more copious silk with craft charms, kill better with brawl charms and travel more quickly, even up sheer vertical surfaces with athletics charms, etc.

Solar charms will never let them will an animal into existence (away from the wyld), but that's generally not more USEFUL than raising up an army of loyal giant black widows with survival charms, unless you wanna do some parlor tricks.

>>92572810
Again, unless you have multiple intimacies that specifically make you an intransigent dickhead, like yourself, or have an intimacy of loathing the person who is asking, you literally can't use WP to resist the request, that's the whole point.

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>>92572565
>Copying powers to some extent is fine but it's purposefully weak. It'll let you do weird things but it's not really a path to power.
What's the context to this exactly? This is certainly how Eclipse Charms work in 3e/Essence, but that isn't the be all end all of.
Also, Blue Mages in many of the FF games don't actually copy and paste the literal abilities they steal, they get customized versions that are still inspired by the monster they stole. For some this is shit, but others it's great. I think Lunar Blue Mages is a cool idea, and so long as Yasal Crystals get to exist in the game and randomly be better than the TWO Lunar charms that attempt to ape it, I think it's fair they have a ways to go.

Do people assume that NPCs are operating at max WP at all times? Its a pretty valuable resource for everyone.

>>92572887
>>92572976
idgaf about this coffee conversation, but willpower spending is just st fiat and in the same atmosphere as hard bargains/rejecting influence. exalted needs a way better system for rejecting social influence than wp attrition-BUT-WAIT-DON'T-ACTUALLY

>>92572976
IIRC, 2e has guidelines somewhere for average will power expenditure for people with different quality of life
I don't remember the specifics, but it basically came down to unless they're actively in a stressful environment or are a dirt farming peasant in poverty, they typically have max or or 1 below their max

>>92573061
That makes sense for most people. The kind of person who'd spend willpower the resist any and all social influence is a different matter, though. That guy will have spent his precious WP already unless it's the first discussion his had with anyone that day.

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>>92562277
How might one create Exigents for the seasonal gods?

>>92573022
You literally have to have a relevant intimacy Jesus Christ. You can't reject persuades with just wp, I posted the goddamn rules text stating this up above.

The intimacy also needs to be stronger than any you used to persuade me.

If I have two relevant intimacies "I like to impress people with food and drink" (Major) and "I hate anon" (Minor) (which I do, after this conversation), and you play on the first one to get me to make you coffee, or grill you a burger or whatever, then I literally can't resist the influence because my only intimacy that supports resisting is less intense than the one you're using.

It doesn't matter if I have 10 wp to spend, I HAVE to make the damn coffee.

Even if hating you was a major intimacy and I used it to raise my resolve I couldn't resist because you need an equally intense intimacy that wasn't used to raise resolve to do a decision point.

You literally don't know how 3e influence works.

>>92573201
The elements are the seasons so more single element focused DBs without family and teamwork themes.

>>92572972
Don't Lunars have a charm that allows you to gain the memories, sorceries, and martial charts of someone they kill? I swear that it's a INT 5 Ess 3 charm and that other Exalts have something similar.

>>92573233
It is really weird how you aren't ready the posts you're replying to, but are instead repeating replies to that one same post from earlier in the thread. Why are you so deranged?

>>92573201
Sorry anon but there are no guidelines.
But tell us more about your fantasy.

1e!Changeling the lost did a good job with its seasonal themes.

>>92573446
They do have the ability to get memories, spells and some martial arts yeah. Abyssal get it, and technically Sidereals/Getimians get it from Charcoal Spider.
Though, aside from the memories, Lunars could get that stuff to begin with. The Bezoar charm is a good example of Lunars getting unique things from their foes. I sometimes think it'd be interesting if Lunars could get multiple different initiations depending on the form they've stolen too.

>>92572972
Yasal Crystals are the exception and a smart ST will limit or ban them. They're way too good and that's because Morke was allowed anywhere near the fucking mechanics. I don't know why but you can trace every bad decision to him.

>>92573706
Whatever dude, I don't care if you don't like the coffee example, it's the one you came up with for your statement that trivial and extreme requests are equally easy to ignore, and the text literally states that they aren't equal. Any attempt to get someone to do something of note requires you to use their intimacies, and any attempt to ignore a successful persuasion attempt requires an intimacy.

A WP is never enough.

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>>92572565
>Oh wait this is exalted not FF14. You should use better pictures next time.
Sorry but 3e art is too shitty.

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>>92572976
it's the nogame curse to think in whiteroom

>>92574478
nta but you have an unlimited supply of intimacies and are encouraged to suddenly reveal hidden Intimacies at-will when it turns out your character feels strongly about something, so saying 'but you need an intimacy to resist' doesn't mean much.

>>92574478
>>92576634
Yeah, don't really have a dog in this race cause I think this is one of those 'It's only a problem if you have a shit ST or player' situations, but my understanding was the whole issue was cause by RAW you can just go "My PC/This NPC has always hated coffee with a passion, 1 WP and done"

>>92577041
>I think this is one of those 'It's only a problem if you have a shit ST or player' situations
Hard agree. In the absolute worst case where you need a mechanical solution you could cap the number of Intimacies a character can have at once, but... well, you shouldn't ever need to bother. If people are obviously abusing a system in ways it's not meant to tolerate for mechanical advantages then that's a much bigger problem than the system theoretically allowing it in the first place. Fixing the bigger problem solves the smaller problem.

>>92572712
Sorry anon, I have an intimacy against listening to anyone playing shit social systems. 1WP.

>>92577648
if that's a minor Intimacy and you had a Major Intimacy towards Exalted you wouldn't be able to 1wp. Is not listening to anyone playing shit social systems really a significant part of your life? Do you argue about it weekly like you play Exalted weekly?

>>92573233
Having a relevant intimacy to stop convincing someone of something is easy as shit, anon. It could be as simple as

"Hey king, we need you to stop oppressing these fucks or war will break out and a shadowland will form because you're being baited."
>king has racism intimacy
"Lmao no 1WP"

>>92577150
If the system is such a piece of shit you can break it for free by just saying "nah I don't like that lmao", IT'S FUCKING SHIT, ANON.

>>92577704
That's why you play on his Intimacy for keeping his power. Not the racist one.

>>92577682
It's pretty sad your only defense for this trash is
>no gaemz
Sorry anon, no one likes your trash social system. This also doesn't make any of the other Exalted social systems good, either. It just makes idiots trying to prop this poorly written mess up look deranged.

>>92577729
If the king stops oppressing people, that might affect his power. All of this might just be a trick to usurp his power. 1WP.

>>92574275
if they're not errataing yasal crystals - I don't care if RichT vetoed them - then they can't pretend they don't exist or pretend that two high Essence Lunar charms getting shitty ass Eclipse Charms is a compensation.

>>92577734
I was trying to make an analogy you could use to compare the system with a real life scenario and trying to appeal to a shared experience, not accuse you of nogames. I think most people in the thread play Exalted, or have played Exalted enough to make an informed decision on whether they should be attached to it even if they're not in a game right now.

>>92577744
You can't use the Intimacy the person using Persuade is exploiting to defend against the persuasion in a decision point, anon. Any character with a single defining intimacy cannot decision point away influence that targets the defining intimacy with a reasonable argument, even if they could also come up with a reasonable counter-point which also uses that intimacy. You've just provided an example of that yourself - if you say to the king whose only Defining Intimacy is BE KING, 'hey king, stop oppression because you're going to weaken your kingdom and our neighbours will war us and take your throne' and exploit that intimacy, they can't then say 'i need to oppress my people to avoid a coup' to resist invoke that intimacy and spend 1wp. Their only options are to reveal a new Intimacy to decision point with (i.e. abuse RAW at expense of RAI) or accept the influence. This is mechanical rather than something that necessarily makes intuitive sense, but I figured I should mention it because your argument ignored it and we are talking about the mechanical system at the end of the day.

>>92577734
A lot of people do like the social system, which is the reason people say good things about it. A lot of people who dislike 3E in general like the social system, even.

>>92578191
yeah, I think despite the 1wp thing, the social system has a lot of merit. it just needed another iteration to make it perfectly magnifique
>BUT DECISION POINT
not just talking about Persuasion Rolls here.

>>92577734
The system isn't an issue. Any system is great or terrible depending on the game and the ST.

>>92578197
The main changes that I feel are needed are A: some way to speed that shit up, and B: some way to make failure less painful

>speed that shit up
The simple solution I've seen proposed are making threshold successes require extra willpower to resist, as was the case in 2.5e, where every four extra successes on the roll over MDV required an extra wp to resist. One I've seen done that helps is to increase the cost to resist by how many intimacies of the appropriate level you exploit, essentially folding all the social actions into one rather than requiring repetitive argument that just suck down time. The third way I've heard proposed is to make it cost more willpower based on how much higher level the intimacy you're exploiting is compared to the intimacy they're citing for Resolve/DP.

>make failure less painful
Decision points are a hard bargain rather than a full resist would do something that's probably good, if the bargains are set up correctly (i.e. the Storyteller makes alternative options when you target NPCs, and the player chooses which gets picked, and vice versa when a PC gets hit with social influence). A very easy positive option is to say that Read Intentions resets more often - I like 'no reset needed' and 'whenever the target resists social influence' as options.

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Do you think the way 3e brings up places or events and never elaborates on them in the hopes that it somehow inspires the reader is like pic related?

>>92578302
I also think that there should be something to like, dictate how long the social combat goes on for and how it ends. It's a minor thing, since players and STs will mutually end it whenever they feel like it for the most part.

>>92578329
No, because they need to makes things interconnected for that to be the way people get inspired. They've tried to do the opposite instead, keeping everything separated and uninteractive with the regions around them instead.

>>92578197
Yeah, the basic idea of persuasion relying on Intimacies is good. It makes sense that you have to figure out what makes someone tick if you want to convince that someone to do something drastic or unusual. The system needs some finetuning, and social Charms should pack more of a punch, but there's a very solid foundation there.

>>92578329
It is more like Lost.

Dark Souls and Elder Scrolls are puzzles.

>>92578333
Social combat right now does have something like an end state, where it eventually stops. That happens when you've used everything and stop being able/willing to go further (willing when it comes to things like bribe/threaten, able for i.e. read intentions, persuade vs a character who you've already hit the intimacies for). It's just that it takes forever to reach an end state like that, which is where my conclusion that speeding up social combat was important came from.

>Whenever the player feels it is appropriate and the Sto- ryteller agrees, the character may add a new Minor Intimacy or intensify an existing Intimacy at the end of a scene by one degree.

Is this seriously what everyone is whining about? Please read the rules before whining about them.

Gaining an intimacy at end of scene doesn't help if you're trying to do a decision point NOW. It's also a minor intimacy so it can't defend against well targeted influence attempts.

Gaining stronger ones instantly of it of nowhere without being influenced requires justification "Hate the Abyssal who just killed my circle mate" (Defining) requires that the you witnessed your circle mate get killed.

>>92578329
As >>92578401 said, Dark Souls actually usually brings things up again. Not enough to provide a full picture, but enough to provide some clues like how 1e and 2e did. 3e doesn't do that at all so it's references are pretty much nothing

>>92579528
Dark Souls is lije the epic of gilgamesh or the war of Troy.
A book with missing passages and chapters.

>>92562277
Is Essence good?
Or are there any other options to play all of the exalted in with a good system?

>>92581457
>Is Essence good?
Yes.
It is Great? No.

>>92573233
The persuade thing has always annoyed me. I dislike Exalted Essence, but I do like the idea of hard bargains from ExEss for this.

Since I just saw Liminals get mentioned in Masters of Jade, I'm curious to know if anyone's done work backporting them mechanically to 2e. Rather than just letting it stay as Guild ghostbuster minions in fluff

>>92582087
Promethean the Created is known as "the second best game that you will never play" for a good reason.

>>92582087
>anyone's done work backporting them mechanically to 2e
I seriously doubt someone has done that.
The nuexalted all suck balls

>>92582120
>The nuexalted all suck balls
Kind of ironic how the only one nu-exalted that walked the 4 stations, is one of the Apocryphals

>>92578155
Honestly, reading most of the shit in these threads, especially anyone saying anything good about the train wreck that is 3e (and double especially anyone saying anything good about it's fucking horrible social system), it's pretty obvious few actually ever played Exalted in any form. Or if they did play it, if was so incorrectly run and GM'd that they may as well have been playing fucking Rifts or some shit.

>>92578191
A lot of people love trash anon. They actively rail against things that would improve their lot in life, they slurp up McDonald's, they poison rvrryyning around them.

That's why we disregard those people. Same with anyone saying anything positive about 3e's mess of a social shitshow. Just by showing they favor it, means they're unironically too stupid to matter.

>>92582287
Which ones?
I honesly deleted most of them from my memory

>>92582087
>backpacking fucking terrible unsalted that everyone wishes didn't exist and didn't need to exist
Anon, that's like asking if anyone found a way to make AIDS also give you full body cancer too. What the actual fuck is wrong with you?

>>92582532
God Dawn phoneposting. Ahem.

>backporting fucking terrible nu-xalted that everyone wishes didn't exist and didn't need to exist
Anon, that's like asking if anyone found a way to make AIDS also give you full body cancer too. What the actual fuck is wrong with you?

>>92582492
True, that is why I disregard a lot of people in these threads. The social system's still pretty good, though.

>>92582519
Hearteaters, they are the only ones whose lore went through "primordial war > usurpation > twin calamities > times of tumult".
Every good splat has to do it or compensate in some way like with Alchemicals.

>>92582557
And another fails the simplest test. Very sad.

>>92582562
Ahhhh yeah they are honestly much better than the getimians

>>92582600
Getimians tried to cheat the stations, but they never compensated like Alchemicals, Abyssals and Infernals did.

>>92572565
you should try FF11. They are a main class. and they work pretty similarly. You acquire the spell, then put it into a loadout. (You should use a plugin for this, as it is an older UX with limits on QoL.) the only thing is that they are primarily DPSers. But they are capable of other actions. They are excellent at soloing, tanking, and crowd control, they also have insane healing power, most of what they do is designed for soloing or playing in small groups.

>>92582532
>>92582539

You can just say 'no', y'know.

and I was just curious since they technically existed in the 2e world, even if only at the very end

>>92582933
2efags were too busy homebrewing Infernals or trying to fix the system and Lunars.

Prometheans aren't a popular splat so there wasn't much hype for the chernozem.

>>92582933
>>92582966
I found 'em interesting, but it was around the time rumblings of 3e was starting so I figured I'd wait to see what they were like there
Then we got the one-two punch of 3e and the wait for 3e which pretty much killed my interest
I still find the idea of Liminals interesting, but yeah, none of the new ones in 3e have really interested me once we actually got a taste of them so....

>>92582933
But just saying no is never enough. The dead horse must be reduced to a fine paste to properly explain just how bad of an idea the nu-xalted were and how badly they shit upon the lore, and the sheer unbridled loathing and contempt for them that exists.

>>92578191
Yeah but that anon is being very edgy after being strictly informed as to how he was incorrect regarding the rules for resisting social influence in 3e.

>>92583981
>Incorrect
Sorry, that's a 1WP from everyone there, anon. You're not fooling anyone, the system is just poorly designed and too easily exploitable.

Thinking about how someone a few threads ago insisted that the combat system in 3e was busted because theoretically the ST could have a random unempowered human in no armor in the fight you could crash for hundreds of initiative and then immediately get to attack your strongest target on the field.

>>92584365
I don't get that an ST could just drop rocks on you until you run out of motes and die. If you have that kind of ST get a new one but people who don't play don't get how it works.

>>92584365
The ST could also create NPC nova exalted with night infinite motes and WP and perfect effects that bypass perfect defencess.
3E absolutely sucks man

>>92584365
This is still an actual problem with the system because of how certain mook summoning charms work or don't work. Not sure why you're pretending like this isn't a very real issue that people contend with and suggest houserules to compensate it.

>>92584280
Ok how do I exploit it as a player?
>>92584457
I was asking a guy why he thought the system would break down with too many characters and this is what I got.
>>92584558
Why would I bring a singular blood ape to a fight? Mortals can kill those fucking things, I'm not having it bodyguard me.

>>92584365
Unironically this is one of the biggest remaining issues I have with Ex3 still. I've seen multiple cases where a character is building up initiative for an attack, another PC's finishes the character they were focusing on, then the character just splats someone else in the fight who wasn't even relevant.

Would returning to a standard, static initiative system be worth such a thing?

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anyone else like, not give a shit about pic related? I'd almost prefer it if Elder Exalts just get the benefit of more XP and higher charm scaling than getting new individual charms. it just sets the precedent that your Lunars aren't allowed to have those charms.

Also why is it the Scarlet Empress is the only elder DB in 3rd?

>>92584582
it ain't just summon 1cd sunshine, a lot of charm design just seems to forget that adding an extra body to the field is a detriment. same with antagonists too.

>>92584607
>Also why is it the Scarlet Empress is the only elder DB in 3rd?
Because DBs only live for a couple hundred years, even reaching essence 4 is very unlikely for them and 5 is their version of an elder.
Unlike elder lunars that survived the fall of the old realm and are 1000+ years old

>>92584681
They start at E5. You can get E6 within 300-400 years of living.

>>92584883
>You can get E6 within 300-400 years of living.
Not really.
For example the PCs and maybe their direct rivals in universe are extraordinarily talented and able to reach essence 5 in an absurdly short amount of time.
The regular exalt might get stuck on essence 3 for hundreds of years and reaching essence 6+ is recerved for the most enlightened exalts only not even the PCs are guaranteed that.

>>92584582
>how do I exploit easily exploitable system as a player
Gee anon, I dunno. That might be a real tough one. It might take many as one half a brain cell.

>>92584593
Returning to a sensible damage system should be the goal. 1e init was fine, not good, just fine, 2e was where it turned to shit, and 3e further enfuckened everything with this withering/decisive shit and trying to turn combat into a series of 1v1's when combat just doesn't work like that outside of an actual formalized duel.

Really, what needs to be done is to tear Exalted from the awful fucking ST system that just doesn't work for it.

>>92584953
>Gee anon, I dunno. That might be a real tough one. It might take many as one half a brain cell.
Sorry, I don't have those, so I leave it to the smartest guy in the thread to tell me how I can exploit the exploitable system.
>>92584988
>enfuckened
don't use words like this

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>>92584593
>I've seen multiple cases where a character is building up initiative for an attack, another PC's finishes the character they were focusing on, then the character just splats someone else in the fight who wasn't even relevant.
Why should I have an issue with this? Seems like a valid use of the party's resources and tactics to me.

What initiative was supposed to represent? Outside of a second mp track with mana shield.

>>92584607
>Also why is it the Scarlet Empress is the only elder DB in 3rd?
I think they wanted to tone down the essence ratings.

>>92584931
The problem with this is I can see, say, Dragonblooded or Sidereals not reaching high essence. Why? One word.

Obligations. Dragonblooded have them, and not listening to your family means you get cut off. On top of that, your elders have a vested interest in keeping you low Essence. Why? Because rivaling them in power is a good way to see them compete for, or usurp, your power. They're not going to let you sit around innawoods, jerking your spiritual gherkin for months or years on end to attain higher spiritual prowess. You have obligations!

Same for Sidereals. You are understaffed (permanently), overworked, and you've got a ton of bosses, many of which do have the power to put the heat on your ass should you fuck up. You are high strung, and you don't have time to sit around and spread your lotus cheeks.

Now, Solars? Lunar? They don't have to shit to do unless they're drawing attention to themselves in the Threshold. They're the perfect candidates to sit innawoods for a century and return as Master Lo Wang of the 7th Essence Hurling Death Fist Palm.

>>92585079
I'll use whatever words I want, gnobstopper.

Also nta, but just take major intimates you know can't be social'd around easily. It's so easy to break the social system in half, you shouldn't pretend it isn't, it just makes you look like a wanker.

>>92585157
>Also nta, but just take major intimates you know can't be social'd around easily
What would be the incentive for doing this? Am I treating my ST as an adversary to be defeated? My ST is a swell historian that makes really good BBQ chicken for the group on occasion, why would I do him so dirty like that?

>>92585177
Also what pair of major intimacies can't be easily socially influenced in any scenario?

>>92585157
>It's so easy to break the social system in half, you shouldn't pretend it isn't, it just makes you look like a wanker.
Preach.

>>92585177
Simple, because the social system is such a chore without Charms that just instantly bypass it, and simultaneously easily ignored if you don't, so there is no point in interacting with it unless you have the Charms that let you bypass it, meaning it's just a binary yes/no switch.

So if you're not taking those Charms you should just endeavor to have as unbreakable set of majors or defining as possible.

>>92585188
NTA, but I once played a Dawn who had a Defining of Might Makes Right, and a Defining of the Weak Should Obey the Strong. He was a Dawn, and as such, it was impossible to do anything to him socially, be cause he would just ignore anyone he perceived as weaker than him, which was everyone. Because he was a Str/Sta/Dex maxed gigachad Brawl/Resist user. Nothing could ever prove stronger than him, and anything that tried was walloped into the ground.

He was the incarnation of "You want me to listen? Make me. Prove you are worth listening to". And no one could.

>>92585226
This seems like a personal taste problem and not a problem with the system; you prefer insta-win charms a la 2e, while other people prefer to engage with the system. That's fine, I just don't understand the incredibly snide attitude you've adopted, its very off-putting.
>>92585252
Seems like someone that more advanced social charms could have dealt with.

>>92585267
>Seems like someone that more advanced social charms could have dealt with.
You'd unironically have to beat him in a fight to get him to listen. Which, well, never happened once during the entire campaign. Not for lack of trying, either. I genuinely stumped the GM with him, and everything he tried was met with an ever increasing escapation of opponents in an attempt to break him, only to find out it just didn't work too well because Solar Res and Brawl are a match made in heaven and hell.

He wasn't an asshole, he was actually pretty carefree, but attempting to get him to do anything he wasn't already going to do was like talking to a wall. He was somewhere between the Juggernaut and Kenshiro hopped up on Solar juice. Very fun to play, too.

>>92585267
No, I just don't care to engage in a system with nuclear, idiotic denial options available to any shitty mortal in the face of a literal God-man. 3e's changes to social were dog shit. Doubly bad when Charms exist that are the only good options because they skirt this mess of a system.

>>92585344
>No, I just don't care to engage in a system with nuclear, idiotic denial options available to any shitty mortal in the face of a literal God-man
Has your ST been making random mortals spend WP for no reason?

>>92585267
Instantly win social was the standard for 1e, 2e, and also 3e. Everyone is right, the system IS bad, because the only options worth using are the ones that just win the social "fight", because engaging properly takes too much effort, time IRL, and could STILL end with a 1WP "lol no".

>>92585382
I'm starting to think that people that don't like the system are very against the idea of a NPC having any defense at all against social influence.

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>>92585371
It doesn't matter if they're a king or a street sweeper, if it's a mortal it has to bow to the BSC in social or the system is wrong. Sorry, just how it is.

Only Exalt's and other supernatural threats get a chance to resist, a mortal's place is to be furniture for the scene setting.

Not exactly entirely on topic, but the tabletop I’m writing has a vaguely Exalted inspired social system, can I post it for commentary on this discussion? See Joe it stacks up to respective tastes.

>>92585414
See how*

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>>92585391
Having to use Charms to defend is fine. Having anyone be able to just 1WP away any sort of social offense is just asinine and a terrible decision. I honestly cannot understand anyone who defends this clusterfuck of a system. The combat is shit, the social is shit, 3E by and large was a massive failure, which is especially disappointing after 2E was also a fucking mess.

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>mfw as I watch a thread talking about how the social system is bad because you can spend 1WP to ignore any attempts to change minds and people trying to defend it
>and this keep occurring because everyone is on all sides is spending 1WP to stop all attempts to change minds

>>92585414
>but the tabletop I’m writing has a vaguely Exalted inspired social system
Sorry to hear that anon, I hope it gets better at some point.

>>92585391
It seems the complaint is that it's warped by what amounts to a Perfect Defense by general rule, contorting the subsystem into a binary pass/fail instead of having a real back-and-forth.

>>92585456
Now you understand why giving everyone a perfect mental dodge was bad.

>>92585468
-1 WP

>>92585481
Pretty much. This is why the only good social Charms are the ones that sidestep the system entirely. Because those are the ones that work. Everything else is just pissing away motes and in-game time on a back and forth that can always just be cratered by the 1WP, making the entire thing pointless.

It wouldn't be as much of a problem (note: it would still be a massive problem) if defenses had to be amassed via Charms to do this sort of thing, but as it stands any dirt daubing peasant can scratch his ass and tell your superhuman godking to go fuck himself after blowing 30 motes of superhuman ki by just using a resource everyone has on them all the time and your only recourse is to fuck off for a day, effectively, only for them to be able to do it again because they regain that resource again, every day.

>>92585542
It seems like you're shadowboxing the most evil ST imaginable in your mind because I never encountered this problem with any ST I've played with.

>>92585625
It's more likely you have an ST that understands the system is hugely flawed and just isn't using that option. Not everyone will have that experience. On top of that, the system encourages such a thing precisely because it is easy to have Intimacy's that can shut down a lot of approachable avenues with just a little though. A player can indeed make themselves a problem, with the system just as much as a GM can, and it is a very poorly designed system as a result.

>>92583316
One of the biggest disappointments about Liminals for me was not investing more in the idea of them being stitched together monsters. I thought they'd be more like Alchemicals, but with body parts. You'd essentially collect body parts and turn them into Charms that you could switch out parts of your body for. Also, the fact they work completely different than other Exalts by not having a soul is bad.

I'd rather they be taken in one of two directions. Either make them not Exalted, or have it so they are actually OG Primordial War Exalts associated with Soulsteel. Their Incarna died, and unlike other Exalts and more like Alchemicals, their creation required the intercession of their patron. The thing of it is, do to the nature of their patron, they turned into a something like a ghost who was sleeping somewhere in the depths of the Labyrinth. The Incarna got found and released some time after the Usurpation, and while they'd lost a lot of power, there was enough of them left to keep on producing Liminals.

>>92585456
I can tell you're making some kind of profound point about the subject at hand, but I draw on my intimacy for chicken noodle soup to TANK it then spend 1 WP to abandon this shit thread because it's not even the best place to talk about Exalted on /tg/ anymore.

>>92586320
Exalted hasn't even been the best Exalted for over 12 years now, so what do you expect? 3e is a shambling corpse and no new edition is in sight to rid us of it's infernal stench.

>1e is the grog edition, best lore but meh rules
>2e is the redheaded stepchild edition, known mostly for acting wild because no one paid enough attention to it
>3e is the 4e of Exalted, the edition everyone wishes would just die already
What will 4e be? Will 4e be the 5e of Exalted, the edition that revives it but also simplifies it? Or will it die before that happens?

>>92586417
Essence is basically a new edition

>>92586417
People paid attention to 2e. It got more homebrew than any other edition. Sometimes, not a day would go by without someone posting a couple new Charms. What I still have from those days are hundreds of pages of Infernal homebrew and the fanmade Nocturnals, which the Getimians wish they were.

>People complaining ITT about how "1 WP is a perfect defense against all social attacks"
>You can only use a willpower to reject influence if it either weakens their existing strong intimacies, introduces completely new intimacies to their character, or tries to persuade them to do something running counter to their existing intimacies.
>Strengthening intimacies that already exist, or persuading them to do something by playing on strong intimacies they already have, cannot be cancelled.
have people not read the system they're complaining about? Half the actions can be cancelled, yes, but those actions are when you are attempting to rewrite the target's values or make them do something against their stated values. It can't be "1wp perfected" if you just... use their intimacies.

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>>92586785
I think that anon meant more editorial wise.

>>92584607
they are piss scared of getting power scaling wrong so just decided to gimp everything

>>92586417
D&D 4e is the only good edition, all other versions of D&D don't really seem to have any sort of direction/design or, in the case of modern D&D, is undergoing the same homogenization process as everything else where it has to be every RPG ever so it can be sold to everyone.

>>92586785
>>92587028
Yes, I did mean editorially. The entire edition was plagued by there being 0 fucking oversight, which is why things were such a mess in both the lore and the mechanics. White Wolf was such a goddamn shit show it's legendary at this point.

>>92586953
Yeah, I can't really see how you would wind up with a terrible time unless the players have decided to be antagonistic for no real reason or, in the case of that Dawn up thread, was made to be a social nightmare with express permission of the ST. If I see players making intimacies that are incredibly abstract and strong to try and game the system, I'd just ask them what they're trying to go for or, if it doesn't work out, not play with them.

>>92587113
I mean, an intimacy like "The Weak Should Obey the Strong" is perfectly flavorful... and exploitable. As long as you don't have a weak-ass ST who's afraid of saying "your intimacy applies to his argument", that defining intimacy is gonna get in your way against practically any half-competent socialite.
Might Makes Right is less exploitable, but hardly perfect either.
I'd probably allow both.

>>92587113
>>92587226
I just don’t play systems where the social rules apply to PCs. So asshat intimacies would be an ST-side problem.

>>92583780
Yes, yes, anon, we know that you don't like a thing. You should work on coping with the fact that other people sometimes like things you don't, though.

>>92584558
Trivial opponents, man. Learn about them, love them, use them. They don't solve the problem entirely, but they definitely do help mitigate it a lot.

>>92585252
Did that character put his hands on his ears and shout "I can't hear you!" if someone weaker than him tried to, like, praise his prowess or beg for mercy or something? Because it's not like social influence is always something where people recognize they're being influenced. You can look down on someone and firmly think that you don't give a shit about his opinions and still be manipulated by him. If the character literally didn't listen to anyone, at all, how did he function in the context of a group?

>>92585316
If it's literally, genuinely impossible to have a discussion with the character because he won't listen to anyone, then there's absolutely no way he could be accurately described as just carefree and not an asshole. If people can have discussions with him, then he's not immune to social influence, even if he leaves the discussion convinced that his thoughts and goals are his alone and unaffected by anyone else.

>>92585406
The Guild exists in every edition, and while it's probably not going to keep existing that long, it's not going to fall as soon as the hierarchs make the mistake of listening to a Solar.

>>92585414
Go ahead, anon, I'll at least try to provide constructive feedback if you do.

>>92585456
It's easy to ignore anonymous strangers on the Internet, especially as no one here is a brilliant and charismatic orator or a subtle master of manipulation.

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>>92587318
>Go ahead, anon, I'll at least try to provide constructive feedback if you do.

1/3

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>>92587329
2/3

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>>92587338
3/3

This isn’t including Mass Social Influence for effecting groups or Bureaucracy.

>>92587329
>>92587338
>>92587351
Intimacies only ever matter for resisting influence? That feels weird.
It took me a while to understand that "Oppose Influence" means forego resisting to let your allies unconvince you of whatever your opponent just said. Those, logically, shouldn't be mutually exclusive.
If I had to make three defining intimacies and four major intimacies for every npc I made, I would shoot myself.
It calls out players not needing a relevant intimacy to Reject Influence, despite the fact that Reject Influence doesn't require a relevant intimacy by default. Did you only mean the "commit 1 effort to ignore it automatically" part?
The sentence "if a Player Character possesses has no Effort regaining uncommitted they immediately become Jaded" is gibberish.

>>92587329
>>92587338
>>92587351
Quick impression: seems like you've got something decent there, but I'm not sure about rejecting influence being a roll you can just try even without relevant Intimacies. It just feels kind of off to me, and potentially annoying and/or exploitable in game. Maybe let the roll be made if there's a relevant major intimacy and succeed automatically if there's a relevant defining intimacy? While your intimacies seem to be mostly a defensive thing, and that's fine, I'd also consider having intimacies in line with the influence in question affect the difficulty of resisting or complicating it, to reward players who put in thought and effort to find an argument that resonates with a particular character. Now, I'm heading off to work, but I'll see if I have more thoughts after work.

How would you fix the Getimians?

>Hardmode: No "just retcon them" answers

>>92587439
>>92587439
1) I presumed that an ST would create less then that in relevant Intimacies for most NPCs. Perhaps I should have wrote ‘at most’ that many Intimacies.
2) Yes. Player Characters Complicate at no cost, can roll to Reject like an NPC, and can commit Effort to auto-pass without relevant Intimacies or reasons.
3) I need to proofread that. It’s supposed to be that if a PC is at 0 Effort [which is the resource used to power just about everything in the system] they automatically become Jaded. So they can Reject Influence with autopass despite lacking the resource to do so. I prefer it where Social Rules simply can’t force PCs to do things, so this was my compromise to make it still worth it for social NPCs to roll since it can still drain the target of their stamina reserve if they want to tell them to sod off, unless they’re already tapped. For players who prefer system symmetry it’s trivial to just ignore that and have players pick Intimacies also.

>>92587471
anon... Getimians are fine. I don't need to fix them. Get mad about Exigents as written, or Liminals, or any of the other nu-exalted, but Getimians? Getimians are fine.

>>92587462
1) That the strength of argument would effect basic threshold is assumed. I can consider making that explicit.
2) Integrity is one of the core twenty five skills, also used to resist various mental effects so it’s exploitable by default. This is in fact a thinly veiled opposed roll system for social influence, measuring persuasiveness vs stubbornness or lie deception. The Defining Intimacies are essentially an automatic victory for that roll, because no matter how strong someone’s argument or how weak your will, there’s some things people won’t budge on without unnatural influence.

>>92587471
I don't see the problem, we already have other optional Exalted like Alchemicals and Infernals, so why is one more a problem?

>>92587558
btw I should clarify I'm not saying this as a diss against the Alchs and Infernals, I'm just saying that they're really not at all critical to the experience of Exalted like the original five Exalt types are.

>>92587471
I'm going to make them a created race. I just think exalts are boring. Especially, when it doesn't matter how you frame them the sidereal end game for getimians is to kill them all and seal them up again.

>>92587849
To be fair, neither are Lunars. You could remove them, and the biggest problem it causes is that the Realm lacks Anathema to fight.

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I have two origins in mind. The first is that they are the result of Paradox backlash from the creation of Sidereal Exaltations that the Maidens sealed away. For this origin, the only valid targets are heroic mortals created do to fate breaking down or who have somehow escaped a destiny and fallen outside Fate, so they are rare and are most likely to Exalt during Calibration. The second is sticking with the Oramus origin, but making them weirder. They have a mechanic like Resplendent Destiny because none of them are human and it hides that fact. They essentially Exalt members of Primordial races that are either long dead, or never existed because the Primordials wouldn't make super weapons that strengthened the race that was rebelling against them. Either way, they are from potential timelines in the Beyond that could have happened, but never did.

Thulio can still release them, but he needs to be de-Mary Sue'd first. I'd make him born during the later half of the First Age. He wouldn't be the strongest, but he'd still be an elder Sidereal who is good at martial arts and possesses a clever and devious mind. Getimians will have been released long before the Solars were, but will become much more common soon because large scale Infernal Charms like creating giant silver deserts isn't good for the Loom of Destiny. If they get released pre-Contagion or during it, it would actually let them get a pretty good power base because Creation dissolving into the Wyld also isn't good for the Loom.

>>92587471
Woops, forgot to link.
>>92587918
They'd have a bunch of Charms that would be used for finding paradox spirits and places where Fate is screwed up. They'd be stored in a sort of patchwork dimension that you can build up and exploit with the right Charms that is maintained by your Exaltation and paradox spirits you've promoted to paradox gods. You can also stitch your dimension together with other Getimians if you so choose. The faction loyal to Thulio's plan is to destroy Creation and replace it with a new one shaped in their image. It isn't difficult to see why this is a bad idea and why some Getimians have defected.

Defector Getimians get along alright with Lunars, and it is thanks to them that Lunars are aware of their goals and haven't outright allied with Thulio. It is also how come they are aware Sidereals screwed them over. Thus, by the time the Solars show up, Getimians, Sidereals, and Lunars have been locked in a three way shadow war with each other for centuries.

>>92587226
Except it won't. Because no socialite will look like a warrior to him. They will look weak. So they will be ignored out of hand. And any warrior will be tested first to see if they're worth listening to, which again, will not work out for them, because Solar Brawl flattens anything in the game without even trying.

Also really laughing at "ST allowing...". Intimates can be anything, by the rules. Don't like it? Maybe don't write such an open ended mess and then give players a denial nuke.

>>92587318
>If it's literally, genuinely impossible to have a discussion with the character because he won't listen to anyone, then there's absolutely no way he could be accurately described as just carefree and not an asshole.
Carefree, because he doesn't care what others want and does what he wants. Not his problem, after all. If they try to stop him verbally, that falls down to his intimacy's guiding him...Which as shown before, were impossible to crack through because one fed into the other.

Just your standard autistic shonen protag.

>>92587986
>>92587946
As others have noted, it really is as simple as convincing him HE came up with the idea in question, which neither of his intimacies protect him from. Though as I said upthread both the Willpower thing and the very idea of a PC being subject to social rolls is retarded so this is a moot point. You shouldn't be autisming a way to avoid the system because the system is so stupid.

>>92588008
How could you convince him its his idea? He wouldn't listen to you in the first place.

>>92588008
Everyone is subject to the rules anon. You don't get to skirt them just because you're a PC. If Hrongus the Dongus comes up to you and socials you into taking his cock up your ass, guess what, you're getting fed a strict diet of the D. Guess you should've planned your Intimacy's better or taken something to deflect social rolls.

>>92588022
That's not how the system works. There's a system for determining if your PC listens, its not a decision OOC. Half my objection to the social system is that it isn't a player decision when it ought to be. As dumb and retarded as it is, by RAW if you said "I don't listen to him", the ST would just roll some dice and say "Actually you do" because neither of your Intimacies apply. Hell you'd probably get *penalized* for them by this sort of thing.

>>92588033
I don't play games where that's the case. I realize that's a matter of taste, but mine is against it and from the sounds of things so is this idiot since he went to such lengths to avoid being influenced.
>>92588022

>>92588046
That's every game, anon. Where did you ever get the idea you just get to ignore social skills in any RPG?

>>92588039
Cool. I spend 1WP, citing my Intimacies. He doesn't listen, the end.

>>92588022
Mate, learn a little about psychology and manipulation. "Convince the person that it was their idea in the first place" is the most basic manipulation trick in the book, and it has nothing to do with having an argument with someone where you lay out the reasons why they should do that thing.

>>92588131
How do you convince someone who doesn't care what you say because you don't matter?

>>92587986
None of that means he's immune to social influence, anon. People frequently don't even realize when they're being manipulared, and unless your character literally doesn't listen to people - meaning he can't function as a part of any kind of a group - he can be manipulated even if he believes otherwise.

>>92588022
That sounds like literal and genuine mental illness. Hiw did your character get along with the other PCs in this totally real game, anon?

>>92588131
Mate, you can't even convince artists in these threads this social system is worth a shit, how do you think you would convince whatever autistic Goku caveman a random anon dreamed the fuck up with Intimacies made to make it near impossible to approach the retard in the first place, and also in a system where people can just keep piling Intimacies on until you get the message they don't want to be social fu'd?

>>92588133
Again, you're thinking of it on a way less subtle basis than it is. The only way you can avoid it is if you never interact with anyone ever, because it's not about valuing their thoughts, it's about valuing your own thoughts. It's a tool especially good for people with power and no ability to listen to their underlings, because it specifically uses their self-valuation against them.

>>92588147
I'm a different anon, I don't know anything about 3e's social system.

>>92588144
>None of that means he's immune to social influence, anon.
Except it doesn't matter because any attempt, manipulation based or not, has to go through the 1WP gate. Which it can't. Because it's a defense you can't break in the end. Because the system is poorly designed.

>>92588160
If you don't know anything why are you trying to argue? Every social attempt, no matter what it is, goes through a series of steps, and the final step is always "Spend 1WP to tell them to fuck off for an entire day". And prevents them from socialing you.

Your WP regens 1 per day unless you do something to gain more (which Exalt's are good at).

>>92588175
I'm not arguing about 3e's social system, I'm arguing that those intimacies are irrelevant because using the method the other anon and I were outlining doesn't conflict with them.

>>92588183
Except it does, because you didn't fulfill either of the conditions to make him listen to your pleas going by the reading of them.

>>92588215
Again, that's not how that type of manipulation works. He's not "listening to someone else", he's "doing exactly what he wants to do".

>>92588227
Again, it doesn't matter how you think manipulation works, it matters how the rules tell you it works. It doesn't matter how you think Intimacy's work, it matters how the rules tell you they work. It also matters how the player interprets them, because they're the ones making them.

Which is why you arguing this is fucking useless. Because nothing works how you think it does, and even if it did, it still falls down to the arbiter of if it applies, being the person whose stuff is being targeted in the first place.

>>92588235
Look dude, it's 2:30 in the morning and I'm going to bed. You're clearly too autistic to understand human social relations, and I've already laid out everything which is necessary for a non-autistic person to grasp the meaning, and everything I can without paging through a 659 page book for a system version I don't actually have any desire to play- not that I expect doing so would change any of my argument.

If neither you nor your ST are capable of understanding human interaction, enjoy being autists together. But your misinterpretation wouldn't fly among anyone else.

>>92588277
Human social interactions have no bearing on a rules set, bro. It doesn't matter if you say "Gee Mr. GM, I'm totally using mind tricks to make him totally do what I say! It should work because I think it does!" when the rules say every social roll goes through the same system.

Your problem here is you're thinking you're just going to bypass a system by wording things differently, thats not how it works. I'm sorry you're too autistic to understand this.

Should stunts allow you to bypass Intimacies in the social system

>>92588277
>I should just be able to like, say it how I want and it works, OK!?
People like you are why rules exist in the first place. This is what rules were invented for, to stop things like this. Go play LARPshit if you want no rules.

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>>92588332
No, because that would break an already broken and bad system, just in a new way. It wouldn't fix anything, either. Really, the best answer is to just not use that system. None of the Exalted social systems in any edition were any good, though the "best" was probably 1E's, because it had almost no rules and essentially was your basic, D&D-esque "Roll against a number, ok, you got enough successes and it works or you didn't, and it didn't.". Of course, this was also the edition of having like, no social defenses AND social Charms that would enslave you forever with extremely easy to pass rolls, so....

>>92588055
In most RPGs social rolls are things made by PCs against NPCs.

>>92588383
In most RPG's the rules apply equally to all. Have you ever played a game before?

>>92587471
By deleting them

>noooo, not muh hardmode-
No. No, Getimians bring literally nothing to the game except contriving a reason for Sidereals not to care as much about Infernals.

>>92587471
Fuse their mechanic with Sidereals.

>>92585105
1) narratively it makes no sense, even narratively cinematically
2) it does weird things when a boss wants to have mooks or PLAYERS want to have mooks. Like has been said earlier, there's multiple charms/spells that don't seem to understand that unless your summon is a Size 0 Battlegroup it's a walking Initiative battery.

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>>92587471
I'll give this an honest shot. I think Getimians play very well so far.
>They aren't people who were never born, they are people who never got their destinies. When they Exalt, they see visions of alternate strands of Creation where they were successful/unsuccessful (Caste) wise. Some of these strands are borderline utopian, while others are nightmarish hellscapes.
>They aren't Exalted by Primordials/Yozi, they are Exalted by the Xth Maiden of Paradox who only exists theoretically as a result of erudite mathematics and unexplained phenomena
>Rakan Thulio isn't fucking involved.
>The place of the Getimians is to reshape the fundaments of the world to seek utopia or to escape hell
>Their intersplat relations arise from their Paradox Essence forming unlikely coincidences to ensure they meet or become aware of one another. Some even see visions of their Circles yet to be during their Exaltation

Otherwise retcon them.

>>92588453
>In most RPG's the rules apply equally to all.

No they don't.

>>92588303
NTA but let me try a different tack. What does your dawn do if someone in the party declares a course of action and an enemy socialite says something like "are you really going to listen to that guy? He's weaker than you." to persuade you towards inaction. Might Makes Right doesn't apply, and Weak Should Obey The Strong is used against you, so it seems like you're fucked.

>>92586785
>Nocturnals, which the Getimians wish they were.
Talking about them, apparently the creator of Getimians wasn't aware about the Nocturnals.

Which raises more questions about them.

>>92589822
Why would he follow advice from that guy if he's weaker?

>>92589985
What if the enemy socialite is as strong or stronger than him

>>92589822
>>92589985
Nta, but his whole point seems to be that using the mechanics, you have to follow the flowchart. Starting at Persuade action, which I assume you're using, even using a Defining Intimacy doesn't stop him from being able to choose to go into a Decision point. Once in said Decision Point, provided it wasn't the Intimacy being used for his Resolve, he can use any Intimacy of the same level or higher as the one they're trying to use to persuade him. In this case, if you're trying to persuade him via working with "The Weak Should Obey The Strong", I'd say the question of if "Might Makes Right" allows him to ignore it depends on if the PC can justify going "My circlemate is stronger than that Socialite"
Which is the core of my problem with the 3e's system, as two Intimacies that are functionally the same shuts any attempts at Social Influence down, and I don't actually see anything in the rules stopping you from having them?

>>92590076
The guy already covered that up thread, and by that I mean he admitted that'd work, but he went all in on making his Dawn a combat monster so it never actually came up

>>92590107
>Which is the core of my problem with the 3e's system, as two Intimacies that are functionally the same shuts any attempts at Social Influence down, and I don't actually see anything in the rules stopping you from having them?
*two Intimacies that resist something and are functionally the same
Belatedly realized I should qualify that. The other anon's example doesn't quite work how he thinks as you can bypass "The Weak Should Obey The Strong" via getting past his Resolve, but it does work like he thinks it does in any situation where the one trying to persuade him seems weaker than whoever/whatever they're trying to persuade them against

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give me some uniquely solar melee charms that do not involve parrying.

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>>92590256
Pankratos sword, cut open the world.

>>92589985
Why would he follow the course of action suggested by his Circlemember if that Circlemember is weaker?

>>92590107
I don't see how "Might Makes Right" would apply in this scenario. That principle doesn't mean literally never listening to anything people weaker than you say, after all, it just means that might makes right.

>>92590491
>I don't see how "Might Makes Right" would apply in this scenario. That principle doesn't mean literally never listening to anything people weaker than you say, after all, it just means that might makes right.
"Might Makes Right" > Is Circlemate is stronger than Socialite? > How dare Socialite oppose Circlemate's idea

>>92590548
Might makes right is about morality, not about whose ideas are good and worth listening to.

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>justice_is_the_interest_of_the_stronger.png

>>92590651
This is very much a moral question, how dare that Socialite question his betters?

>>92590491
>Why would he follow the course of action suggested by his Circlemember if that Circlemember is weaker?
You can choose not to apply your resolve to things. There's actually no penalty to doing so.
Doing so repeatedly and your ST can reduce the intensity of the intimacy, but by RAW as long as you show something that suggests you still uphold it every now and then, he's not supposed to

>>92590651
Actually this very much applies, as kraterocracy, the political philosophy where that phrase originates from, was very much of the "If you're not strong enough to force people to obey your will, your ideas are not good" line of thought. If he's assuming the stance of might makes right as a core belief, NONE of the socialite's ideas are good unless he can force them on others

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>>92590651
Morality in Exalted doesn't exist, much like the real world. It's all about whoever is enforcing their will in an area. There is no objective good or objective evil. Even "Creatures of Darkness" is literally just "People on The Sun's Shit List" and Holy was "Effects the Sun says should fuck these people up extra hard because fuck them" and has no actual bearing on morality or holiness or anything.

Anyway, glad to see people are realizing how shit the social system is if some random anon's moron of a character can stop it entirely in just two intimacies, and nothing stops anyone from doing the same with their own, probably with better worded and more iron clad ones that won't have anon's trying to pick it apart and failing for like 100 posts now. The fact it seems to make all of the "muh social system good reeee" idiots seethe is even better. Nothing feels as good as people having to accept they're wrong.

>>92591237
Morality exists both in the real world and in Exalted, though. It probably doesn't exist outside human minds and human societies, but both human minds and human societies are completely real, and anything that affects human behavior, including morality, has a pretty tangible effect on the world.

>Anyway, glad to see people are realizing how shit the social system is if some random anon's moron of a character can stop it entirely in just two intimacies, and nothing stops anyone from doing the same with their own, probably with better worded and more iron clad ones that won't have anon's trying to pick it apart and failing for like 100 posts now.
Anything's possible if your ST makes sure to not push you hard enough to mess with the power fantasy.

>>92590727
>You can choose not to apply your resolve to things.
Amazing how many people here forget this. The social system in 3e is held together with string and scotch tape. It falls apart the second you poke any aspect of it. Your characters aren't robots, and they can selectively enforce their Intimacy's as they wish. Which us just another reason why the system deep throats horse cocks

>>92591596
Yeah, that's my second biggest issue after the whole "Two similar Intimacies can shut it down" is that there's no real penalty to having them other than the RP tax to keep them
You can just.... outright ignore your own Defining Intimacies when it benefits you on a case by case basis and by RAW as long as you don't consistently ignore it, the ST can't lessen or remove it unless you agree to it. And worst of all, it'd be trivially easy to patch, just say choosing to go against one's Intimacy counts as a successful attempt to degrade the Intimacy or something

>>92589950
>Wasn't Aware
>Yet uses a lot of similar mechanics
I'm calling bullshit on this. This is just so they don't get sued. Nocturnals was the biggest fansplat of the series. I didn't like them but I still respected it.

>>92589950
As >>92591997 says, they legally have to say they were not aware of them. There's an autistic rule in the Discords for example that the reason you aren't allowed to post homebrew is because if the Devs/Writers see it, they could be liable. This doesn't mean that they DEFINITELY ripped it off, it just means that even if they did, they would *have* to say they did not.

>>92592029
Well they explicitly have an area for homebrew. One that they explicitly don't look at no si, they would never look at homebrew.

>>92592058
except nearly all of them have posted in there at some point so...

>>92591237
>Even "Creatures of Darkness" is literally just "People on The Sun's Shit List" and Holy was "Effects the Sun says should fuck these people up extra hard because fuck them" and has no actual bearing on morality or holiness or anything.
They changed it a bit.

>>92591997
>>92592029
It is hard to say, it may have been caused because of convergent evolution.
Holdorke's Getimians are just discount!Sidereals.

—"I had to walk the dev through the Nocturnals".

>>92591929
No one would have any Intimacy's if going against them counted as degrading them. As has been said time and again, the social system just sucks. It has too many holes, it's too easy to shut anything down no matter how much is invested into it, and all of it's "complexity" is just a waste of time because the only useful Charms skip the entire system anyway.

3e needs to just be ended and a new system needs to take it's place. The game is hot trash built on a foundation of sand.

>>92592395
It sucks. It just sucks less than most other social systems out there.

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>>92592395
The only problems with the social system is the exact resolutions, the math and steps involved and the fact Willpower can shut it down too easily. I also hate the system symmetry since I don’t like PCs being controlled by anyone but their player. The rest of this protracted rant is just autism and and sheer stubborn refusal to grasp how the social system works because you don’t want the system to work. Under any reasonable ST, a character of the strong warrior archetype of the sort described would be led around by the nose while blissfully unaware he was being led around, unless he literally shut his ears and went ‘lalala’ every time he talked to another human being because he was afraid of social influence. Which would create other drama producing consequences. Saying a mediocre system is terrible because you steadfastly refuse to engage with it in good faith is not the fault of the rules.

>>92592395
>No one would have any Intimacy's if going against them counted as degrading them.
Just means you gotta stick to your principles, or it'd winnow Intimacies down to stuff you don't change about your character too often

>>92590256
A wound cut so perfectly it won't heal naturally

>>92592269
I was being sarcastic. Yeah, they obviously read homebrew. They just never comment on it in case they make something similar or get inspiration from it.

>>92592377
There are a lot of mechanical systems that are too similar to discount.

>>92592997
That's an Abyssal charm.

Putting aside logistics such as "how" or even "why", where would y'all suggest I try to put down an elemental pole of Vitriol?

Long-term goal for an Infernal to aid in the Reclamation... but can't think of a proper direction to sully. Though I suppose it could be out in the Wyld, adding back onto Creation once the pole is in place (if it gets in place)

>>92593162
Put it in the south to replace the Fire. Otherwise if you're keeping all the poles, have it be between Fire and Earth but very deep underground.

>>92593162
I think there's no good place... which is why Gaia kept saying no and also half the point
Personally I'd say slap it between fire and water, or try to turn another pole into it

>>92593186 works too, put it underground, have it bubble up and cause havoc as Creation is reshaped to account for it

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New player here. I've been told to start reading 2E rules and splats first over 3e. Am I skipping anything worth reading by ignoring 1E? I've heard 1E's book on the Scavenger Lands is worth a look already.

>>92593186
Prefer to keep all the poles, but given the game is taking place in the south that's a good backup plan.

Why do you suggest deep underground? (Though speaking of Earth, I should probably have a 'dark mirror' of the Imperial Household now that I think about it.)

>>92593209
>kept saying no

Why we have to force the point ;)

>bubble up and cause havoc
Ah, that'd make sense

>>92593258
Not really, 2E does has a tendency to go into detail about things that were left vague in 1E, but I found the writing on par, both rehashes of the older stuff and the newer 2E exclusive things. I generally find 2E's mechanics better, but it's also very much one of those systems that expects you to have system knowledge of how it works when making PCs AND one of those systems you can easily break via system knowledge.
That said, there's no real harm in reading both, just that 2E built off of 1E and kept most of it, including the stupid parts of the lore. Either way though, if you want to go with 2E's mechanics you're best off focusing on that imo, 3E is... a very different beast from either 1E or 2E

>>92593264
>Why we have to force the point ;)
As I said, half the point

>>bubble up and cause havoc
>Ah, that'd make sense
Yeah, while putting it underground sounds good, I have a feeling it won't stay underground, both due to it's nature and the nature of the pole of earth. I'm not actually sure where a pole of vitriol would end up though, I half think it'd end up opposite of earth, as earth is stability and vitriol while not instability, is mutation, melding, and simplification IIRC, but what "opposite of earth" that would mean I have no clue

On that note, your question reraises a few questions I've had before
A) Can a vitriol elemental (or just a metody) grow into an elemental dragon if left alone for too long?
and B) Could you hypothetically make a vitriol aspected DB?

Considering the criticisms I've heard regarding 3E, I'm more interested in Essence and what it may offer instead, but I'd honestly love to take part in a game for 2, 3, or E. No better way to know my preference than with actual experience.

What does Quixalted and 4thchan add go the table?

>>92593478
>A) Can a vitriol elemental (or just a metody) grow into an elemental dragon if left alone for too long?

>B) Could you hypothetically make a vitriol aspected DB?

That sort of thing is actually why I was thinking of it, saw the idea someone made of "Infernal" dragonblooded via Vitriol aspecting, with it being made possible once you establish an elemental dragon/pole for it. Which I then expanded out to being a probable way to pin-open a 'hellmouth' type hole into Malfeas into creation: hell on earth

>>92593577
>saw the idea someone made of "Infernal" dragonblooded via Vitriol aspecting
Do you have a link to that anywhere? I've always been curious about that idea, but never too sure where to start

But yeah, that does sound like a good Infernal plan, huge, audacious, probably requires many steps with at least half of them being stopping the fools trying to stop you, and even if it proves the Yozi's plan of "Make Creation enough like Hell that the Yozi can just walk out" won't work (or that even that isn't like Hell enough), it'll cause enough havoc in the Yozi's name they'll still be pleased

>>92593628
> Now, there is a series of events that in theory could lead to "Infernal Dragon-Blooded". If Autochthon were to be killed, resulting in him becoming Engine of Destruction, he could theoretically be lobbied to share/replicate his knowledge on how to create Exalted with the Yozis. Remember, Neverborn/Yozis got corruption down, but they cannot make new Exalted. But if they could, and if the Reclamation succeeded (or, hell, even if it didn't), the 6th Element thien to, aka vitriol, which is normally used to corrupt the other Magical Materials for native use by Infernal Exalted could become powerful enough to coalesce as a Terrestrial Dragon, siring a new "line" of Vitriol Aspect Dragon-Blooded.

Hopefully that formats properly, unfortunately all it is (though as decent a spot as any to jump off of from a fluff perspective)

coincidentally I was already thinking of "dragonblooded royal guard" so that's fun

>>92593478
>and B) Could you hypothetically make a vitriol aspected DB?
Probably not.

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>>92593507
Pic related for a QE v Essence comparison.

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>>92593674
>The authors are menhera.
Wait, Quixalted anon is actually a needy anime girl?

>>92592467
No, I'd say it sucks more than others out there. Others tend to be quicker to resolve, and don't have magic bullets on both sides to either make all effort in it worthless, or just skip the whole thing anyway. It's truly a marvel they managed to design something so shit from every possible angle.

>>92592909
Except you've been told that isn't how it works. Continuing to ignore reality doesn't change reality, I'm afraid. How you wish the system worked, and how it actually works, are two entirely different things, and it doesn't even come down "MUH REESONIBBLE ESS TEE", because the system itself is adjudicated by the owner of the Intimacy, able to invoke or ignore it as they wish.

>>92593162
Right on the BI. Let it flood in caustic yozi cum element and sink.

>>92593258
Simple chart to follow.
>1e lore>2e lore>dirt>the worms in the dirt>3e lore

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I simply do not trust this thread to give me any good advice regarding mechanics as posters ITT will say stuff without any source or verification beyond imagining things, so I instead trust autists I know on other forums and they say they like the social system.
>>92593889
nah I'd rank 3e lore over 2e lore, that shit sucked

>>92593507
2e isn't really any better. Combat boils down to "perfect or die" every single swing because the damage is so outrageous every hit will paste someone. The same thing can happen in 3e, but it's far less likely unless someone is rolling up with Stealth or the Solar Brawlchads. 3e also has the problem that the system was more or less designed without a single fucking consideration of what happens when more than 2 people fight, and it isn't pretty.

Both their social systems are also shit, just for different reasons. You can instantly halt social just by starting a fight in 2e, also known as MDV: Fist, and this thread has been one long diatribe about how 3e social sucks. Both also feature Charms that skip the system entirely, too.

>>92593893
Source: Read the bo-
>prefers 3e lore
Oh, never mind, you're retarded and illiterate. 1WP

>>92593889
>>92593893
>>92593973
I think that 3e's mostly non committal lore apart from the trannyisms is still better than most of 2e's lore additions. Oversight is criminally retarded, chapter 1 and 2 of Infernals are a given, most Abyssal - Deathlord lore as well. It's no contest really.

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>>92594005
Yeah, I never understood why people believe 2e lore to be good since most of the time it either feels like someone is inserting their fetishes, trying too hard to be edgy, or is taking old 1e lore and making it worse. I had a good time reading AT8D, but I think the only compass book I liked for 2e was Autochthonia.

>>92593946
>2e isn't really any better. Combat boils down to "perfect or die" every single swing because the damage is so outrageous every hit will paste someone
Sincerely, how much would be fixed if you nerf artifact weapons' damage?

>>92594005
>most Abyssal - Deathlord lore as well. It's no contest really.
This one was broken since 1e, and 3e didn't fix it.

>>92594005
>Oversight is criminally retarded,
We went over this last thread, literally every single complaint you had about Oversight was was either based on something you made up about 2e's lore on it or 1e's lore on Sids

>>92594021
>I had a good time reading AT8D
I thought the writing of it was mostly fairly poor and bland, and that was actually a goal according to the Devs - to be used as referential material rather than to be satisfying to read. 2e has some great additions too, like certain additions to Malfeas and Yu-Shan, the Wyld and more. But fundamentally 3e is way more forgiving to character concepts than 2e is because of the aforementioned tard-bats given to Infernals/Sidereals/Abyssals.

>>92594057
You embarrassed yourself really hard last thread though, and I'm speaking as someone who only barely paid attention to your retarded diversions especially about Conventions.
>>92594055
>This one was broken since 1e, and 3e didn't fix it.
It's always been bad, but it was at its worse in 2e where it wrote down exactly how your Deathlord can just fuck your ass no matter what. 1e Deathlords were also retarded too, but didn't quite hit that peak.

>>92594085
>fix it.
>It's always been bad, but it was at its worse in 2e where it wrote down exactly how your Deathlord can just fuck your ass no matter what. 1e Deathlords were also retarded too, but didn't quite hit that peak
Rules as written, the Deathlords could just limit bomb Abyssals by just ordering them impossible orders.

>>92594055
>Sincerely, how much would be fixed if you nerf artifact weapons' damage?
Not much. The problem isn't really the weapon damage, though bigger weapons could use a nerf. The problem is Charms, of which there are tons, ramp your damage through the roof. By the time you rewrote everything to be balanced, you'd have written an entire new edition of Exalted.

>>92594134
>The problem is Charms
A summation of Exalted's core issue. Hundreds to thousands of singular powers, each subject to different, non-uniform valuations within a substrate, is impossible to balance in any meaningful capacity.

>>92594123
>Rules as written, the Deathlords could just limit bomb Abyssals by just ordering them impossible orders.
why would a storyteller do that

>>92594085
>>92594134
>>92594123
I feel like people who want to play Abyssals didn't understand to be an Abyssal is to be a Saturday morning cartoon villain under the thumb of a deranged ghost of Dr. Doom, and then bitched when they realized that it sucks to play. Of course it sucks. You're an idiot who sold out the world to work for a crazed bunch of dead guys. And you did it freely because you can't even be an Abyssal unless you truly accepted the bargain. You're the Exalt version of a janny who is stuck cleaning up Deathdark Evilman's shitposting in real time.

>>92594194
It was unironically more effective to turn an Abyssal into a living abortion nuke than it was to use them normally.

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>>92594231
I think people just choose exalts off vibes most of the time honestly and honestly that's based of them. if people want to be goths or furries or paladins or whatever, good for them.
>>92594249
that doesn't answer my question

>>92594134
I always got the impression that damage charms were balanced around weapon damage.

>>92594194
>LITANY OF SINS
>Whenever an Abyssal commits any of the following
actions, she automatically gains Resonance as described
in the transgression. This list is by no means exhaustive.
>Storytellers should feel free to develop other sins as
appropriate, using the listed offenses as a guideline for
severity. Abyssal Exalted can deliberately transgress
against the will of the Malfeans to scourge the land
around them with black miracles, but daring the wrath of
the Malfeans is a dangerous thing, and characters who do
commit transgressions at the direct behest of their Deathlord suffer for it, not their master. However, an otherwise loyal deathknight who sins without orders to do so gains Resonance normally.

>• Disobeying one’s liege. The Deathlord can inflict up
to one Resonance per day on the character as a reflexive
action at any distance and at any time.

>>92594257
At this point considering how everyone bitches about every Exalt type, they never should've made anything but Solars playable. At least then the game would have more playability because you could only need an NPC book and the core.

>>92594266
Nope. They weren't really balanced around anything other than "dev feels this works". Which is probably why Brawl/MA sucked ass for 2 editions and Solar Melee was God Mode that did everything. White Wolf couldn't balance for shit.

>>92594085
>You embarrassed yourself really hard last thread though, and I'm speaking as someone who only barely paid attention to your retarded diversions especially about Conventions.
Nice attempt to gaslight, the other anon was the one who even brought up the bit about Conventions after I pointed out his explanation of "Oversight is bad is because in 1e Sids aren't assigned to Conventions and aren't sent missions, they seek problems out", both of which the 1e book flat out says otherwise. I can grab you the page numbers if you like

>>92594266
No, I'm not asking you what the Resonance rules are, I'm asking you why a storyteller would bother to have the Deathlords they are roleplaying "limit bomb" the characters his or her friends are playing as part of of a collaborative roleplaying experience.
>>92594273
I think people ITT are very negative about everything in Exalted for no real reason or gain.

>>92594359
>I think people ITT are very negative about everything in Exalted for no real reason or gain.
Yeah, something I've noted is that a lot of people tend to go "I don't like X, therefor no one should and anyone who is having fun doing X is having fun wrong", which is something I don't really get? I don't begrudge someone for liking something I don't. I've stated before I flat out don't get the appeal of Abyssals, but that doesn't mean I think they need to be removed, if someone's having fun playing one, that's good
That said, I am a pedantic asshole, and if I see someone say something I know is factually incorrect I'll call them out. But then again, how hard is it for people to just say "I don't like X" instead of making up lies about X and then trying to convince others why it should be disliked?

>>92594359
There isn't much to be positive about. 3e started off with a huge mess thanks to the lead development being retarded and doing no ppaytest8ng nor taking feedback, and it's only grown worse with time. After they were booted, the new devs were stuck with a terrible design philosophy to stick to, badly written core mechanics, and on top of that, the game is released as a glacial pace. We had two, FULL editions of Exalted, and these dipshits aren't even finished with the core Exalt types yet. It's had plenty of time to sour everyone on this disaster of an edition.

I'd unironically rather Exalted have died with the end of 2e than continue like this.

>>92594231
Abyssal issues come from Vampire.

>Saturday morning cartoon villain.
Those are the Deathlords, Abyssals are their battered bootlicker underlings.

>>92594257
>I think people just choose exalts off vibes most of the time honestly and honestly that's based of them
It is an issue mainly with Abyssals and Lunars.

>>92594403
>We had two full editions of Exalted in the same time frame as 3e has gone on for so far, and these dipshits aren't even done with the core Exalt types yet.
Fixed.

>>92594359
>I'm asking you why a storyteller would bother to have the Deathlords they are roleplaying "limit bomb" the characters his or her friends are playing as part of of a collaborative roleplaying experience.
That is the gameplay lop, you are the second in command of the Neverborn's second in command.

>>92594403
>3e started off with a huge mess thanks to the lead development being retarded and doing no ppaytest8ng nor taking feedback
I will say in it's defense, 3E has a number of good ideas
But yeah, it was clear from day 1 the whole thing needed another pass through. The unwillingness to playtest the game outside of how they wanted it played or listen to feedback was the biggest issues as it really starts breaking apart on the edges when you don't play exactly the sort of PCs or stories the devs want you to

>>92594478
I can definitely understand wanting a cool cinematic fight system, or, say, a social system that is more than just "roll die to completely change someone's personality", but the execution is a complete fucking mess. Doubly so when the idiots in charge decided chopping Charms into tiny bits and tripling the fucking amount of them, something everyone generally agrees there was too much bloat of in previous editions, a hundred times worse than before.

This stuff doomed the whole edition right out of the gate.

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>>92593674
Thank you very much.

>>92593946
>You can instantly halt social just by starting a fight in 2e, also known as MDV: Fist,
I don't see why this is an issue unless you're forcing social combat on someone who doesn't want to engage in social combat over whatever they're being coerced into socially fighting against, and even then, the weaker opponent is killing themselves if they do this, which is part of the reason why social combat would presumably work as an intimidation tactic.


You guys have any fun with Exalted lately by the way? I'm seeing a lot of arguing about lore when can ST can fix that by just saying "We're doing it a different way," and I can't imagine you guys play the game at all if you hate it... Unless...?

>>92594620
Yes, but only because I'm the anon running the long running ERP game.

>>92594620
> I can't imagine you guys play the game at all if you hate it... Unless...?
We don’t hate the game anon, we hate that other people are playing it wrong

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>>92594726
>We don’t hate the game anon
Nah, I pretty well hate 3e because of it's bad design and mechanics, as well as utterly raping the fluff and lore, and adding in the hilariously shit nu-exalt types, each of which is more lore breaking and terribly done than the last. And killing the anime aesthetic for this ugly shit western one. It's not even the same game it used to be, at this point.

>>92593075
The Abyssal version would be a wound cursed by the necrotic Essence of an Abyssal that never heals
The Solar version is a wound so perfect that it refuses to close because it has primacy over lesser things

>>92594431
The second edition was garbage. 3E has issues but at least it's exalt types are playable.

>>92595143
> 3E has issues but at least it's exalt types are playable.
Pity the core system isn’t

>>92595143
>playable
Yeah, after like 10 fucking years. And even then, not very, because the core system is trash and not even all of the types are out yet.

>>92593861
That’s not true.

>>92594620
I've been running a 3e game for the last two years. Great fun, honestly. Most of the system works as I wished it did, with my only complaints being some of the charm sets, crafting, and how artifacts work.
The social system especially has been amazing. I used to be on the "social actions should never work on PCs" team but honestly 3e really changed my mind, and the minds of my players.

>>92594620
My ExWoD game is still going through PBP, a bit slowly lately due to a minor medical thing of one of the players slowing him down in feeling like replies.

>>92594066
I actually dislike the total freedom that 3e gives. I don't mind loosening up the restrictions, but they went in the opposite directions. One of the things that made Abyssals fun is seething about your cruel master and planning revenge. Sure, make some of the Deathlords not terrible bosses and create an easy option to be free, but keep a few tyrants around. Ronin Sidereals shouldn't be forced to work for Yu Shan, but they should still probably have a guy who shows up occasionally to check up on you and maybe try and bribe you.

>>92595555
It's better than being limited to solars and infernals because the rest of them are just not good.

>>92596191
Abyssals and Lunars were also played, the latter after they were remade from the ground up.

>>92596191
The other splats were pretty playable, issues came up with mixed splat groups unless you accounted for the different power levels, but I never really had issues with the other splats

>>92596191
>>92596227
Alchemicals were pretty fun to play imo

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>>92594693
Exalted honestly feels tailored quite well for it, not to mention 2E's horniness. What edition?

>>92595861
>Most of the system works as I wished it did
What parts might that be? The more I read this thread, the more I feel like I'm going to have to try cobbling parts from different editions together if I want the best of each.

>>92596031
Hope his situation improves!

>>92593845
Nah. The vast majority of social systems out there might as well not exist, with how barebones they are. Ex3 at least makes an attempt, and an attempt that works pretty well as long as people approach it in good faith. Like, 3E social system can be broken if you try to break it and if your ST just shrugs and goes "whatever", but it's not something that'll break into a dysfunctional mess on accident.

>>92593893
>I simply do not trust this thread to give me any good advice regarding mechanics as posters ITT will say stuff without any source or verification beyond imagining things, so I instead trust autists I know on other forums and they say they like the social system.
Good. I wouldn't expect anyone to trust me if I can't provide any other source than my ass, and I wouldn't take anyone else here just on their word, either. Some of the most ridiculous claims about Exalted I've ever heard anyone say I've heard here.

>>92594359
>>92594402
Yeah, a lot of people here seem to be outright upset when someone likes something they don't like. It's a weird attitude to have.

>>92594620
>You guys have any fun with Exalted lately by the way?
I ran a pretty fun Dragon-Blooded game that ended recently. It was 3E, sorry if that triggers some of the anons who lose their shit when someone has fun with 3E. Anyways,I don't know what you expect from discussion here. Lore and mechanics are things we have at least something resembling a shared understanding of, which facilitates discussion. What happens in my games and how my take on Creation differs from canon is a different matter, and less fruitful area for discussion, IMO.

>>92596912
>What parts might that be? The more I read this thread, the more I feel like I'm going to have to try cobbling parts from different editions together if I want the best of each.
The best advise I can give for "What edition of Exalted to play" is "What's your favorite flavor of jank?"
I've said it before, but I personally find 2E the funnest to play as I find it's the most functional and has the neatest powers, but it also unintentionally funnels you into a certain playstyle (Paranoia combat, i.e. making sure you're never caught unexpected and have an answer for shaping effects, poisons, UMIs, etc and the infamous Rocket Tag, i.e. after a certain point you'll be facing foes that deal enough damage to instagib you if you don't Perfect it or have a very defensive build), though both are really only issues if people (players or ST) builds to it, but as soon as one person starts everyone, both PCs and NPCs has to to keep up. As long as you can keep to a gentleman's agreement not to do so (or just don't mind that sorta thing) it's fine
3E works, but I think some other anon put it best when he said it needs another iteration of rules tweaking as it works fine until you run into an edge case or try to do something the devs didn't think of (and there's a lot of that)
1E I have the least experience with but I believe the biggest issues was it either being near impossible to deal damage to PCs/NPCs due to scene long defenses (not kill something, just deal damage) or a worse version of 2E's rocket tag depending on if you're using power combat or not and a lot of the charms were pretty much just XP tax for stuff you actually want
Actually, correction, Essence is the edition I have the least experience with, as I've never actually played it, so I can't really speak to it much

>>92597115
>Yeah, a lot of people here seem to be outright upset when someone likes something they don't like. It's a weird attitude to have.
I find the melodrama about 3e weird. If you're a 2e guy, 1e guy, whatever: you have everything you could possibly need for Exalted and have had it for decades. I genuinely cannot grasp edition warring in general since its always about things that had a complete and healthy line that lasted for years, and then have a system update come out.

>>92597298
Mostly it comes down to ruining a good thing by making it different, and that if you don’t have a reliable group you’re gonna be stuck with people who assume the newest edition of a game is the one to play. Not everyone has the same group for 10+ years and can always just suggest a niche game of any age or edition and expect interest. I do, but that’s not everyone’s experience.

>>92595240
>Solars suffer from Early Splat Syndrome in every edition so they'll always feel the worst to play.

>>92597438
Nah. They're usually still the best every edition because of their stuff being broken by design. The only time this wasn't true was 1E Sidereals, because Borgstrom was a lunatic and just made all of the Sidereals have un-resistable bullshit with no rolls and no counters to any of it.

>nb4 2E DB's
>nb4 Obsidian Shards
lmao no. The essence stealing Charm got eratta'd to be Shaping, which meant it was cockblocked right away by any Shaping defense, which should be part of any Solar's suite.
And Obsidian Shards both Solars could learn, and was so broken you were retarded if you ever allowed anyone to have it. SotM was the worst book of the line, and a huge shame because everyone was clamoring for an MA book and then this turd hit the floor. Fuck White Wolf and it's "lmao what's an editor?" bullshit.

>>92593844
Tsundere. He loooves shitting on 3e but a lot of his design is inspired by it. In fairness, there's a few things in earlier QE that mysteriously appear later in Essence or 3e according to some people in this thread.

>>92597822
>Obsidian Shards both Solars could learn
nta but nobody was even considering teaching SMA to Solars in 2e and the only reason they were doing it in 1e was because they'd forgotten Prismatic Arms of Creation was a SMA when they declared that it was only under consideration. Sidereals meanwhile get sifu and the ability to innovate these martial arts without a teacher if it comes down to it.

Yes, SotM was busted broken bullshit, but we do still need to treat 2e as if those charms exist, just like how 1e is always considered with stacking passives by default and people somehow never forget about 3e's craft or naval systems.

>>92597822
>>nb4 2E DB's
>a magical attack that doesn't work against magical defenses vs a magical defense that doesn't a work against magical attacks.

>lmao no. The essence stealing Charm got eratta'd to be Shaping, which meant it was cockblocked right away by any Shaping defense, which should be part of any Solar's suite
Rules as written, the pre errata version couldn't work since it was supplemental.
The Charm was broken in both senses.

>>92598333
>In fairness, there's a few things in earlier QE that mysteriously appear later in Essence or 3e according to some people in this thread.
I think the devs also mined Nocturnals, once they realized that they existed.

>>92599175
1E/2E SMA is also a trap. You either learn it as an eclipse for 20xp a charm so you can use a sutra or you don't the style becomes nonviable except for one trick as you end up wasting too many resources activating a single charm.

>>92596912
>What parts might that be?
The charms in general feel appropriately awesome. I'm not super happy with Sail, or War, or Medicine, but when people specialize in most things they work.
Combat, despite initial reservations work surprisingly well. The only thing to keep an eye out for is that people included in combat should be good at combat, or they should be trivialized, aka they should just die in one hit or upon crashing. Battlegroups work really well as mooks, since you just cant farm initiative off of them.
Social system, as mentioned, works great. Only system so far where I've felt my players have meaningfully tried to convince NPCs. The only snag is that you have the be fairly strict with when intimacies apply or not, for every character, which means you should optimally be on the same page as the player about how their character would act.

The parts that I've actually changed are the motepool system, since we switched over to Glory Overwhelming. It felt quite a lot better with that change.
I also do not actually make QCs or whatever the book recommends, which means I never announce what Charms an NPC uses unless its an actual exalted character made from the ground up.
If anyone ever took Wyld-Shaping Technique I would probably change how the "attract enemies" part of it worked too. That shit resulted in a 3-session long combat in my previous campaign.

>>92600814
>3-Sessions
Holy fuck. I would have just checked out.

>>92601033
Average 3e combat length featuring more than 1 opponent.

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>>92601033
Who the fuck runs 3 sessions of combat

>>92584988
I have nothing against the Storyteller-ing system. The only thing stopping me is the idea of initiative crashes as they're so vital for the system.

>>92601983
>>92601033
one of my larger mistakes in my exalted GMing career, no doubt. It helped that the combat is fun to play, and all the players were somewhat combat-specced, so it wasnt 3 sessions of "im doing nothing" for anyone.

>>92600814
>That shit resulted in a 3-session long combat in my previous campaign.
QEanon was right about Janest's backstory.

New bread when

>>92603431
Page 9 or 10

>>92601983
Finale's in my game often have a series of combat's lasting over 6-8 sessions.

I take lessons from Capcom and often have every major boss the characters fought appearing before the final boss

>>92603449
Have you had a party Lunar or Eclipse notice the pattern and proceed with beating the shit out of them with their own tricks?

>>92600814
>Battlegroups work really well as mooks, since you just cant farm initiative off of them.
This is a downside more than an upside.

>>92594620
I have fun with the system. I wouldn't have written several hundred pages of shit if I didn't like it.

>>92562277
Weekly Update
>FINAL DRAFTS
Sidereals Novella
Danielle: Lauren Roy has gone through this and sent it along to Elliott for revisions. I’m sure it is an excellent read already, but she mentioned tightening up some plot points. Glad to have Lauren’s expertise on this
>Layout
Sidereals – Charms chapter done.. working on the Merits chapter (the one with the splats)
Essence Charm Cards – Progressing
Exigents Screen – Since the page xxs and all that jazz are in, time to do the screen
Essence Jumpstart – Still getting Travis the paragraph styles for Essence stats
>Press
Essence – Printing
Essence Screen – At Studio 2
Exigents – PoD proofs ordered
exigents is 1 of 3 having PoDs ordered. There's a good to fair chance we'll see it next month

Does anyone have a pdf of Exalted essence

>>92603462
What? Why?

>>92603904
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Toq5ja-74fkovm9CDR2cMs1AmRPH0TpHHXofvDi2Huc/edit#bookmark=id.drzsc6vaeg2n

Static initiative causes more problems than it solves when designing stuff.

>>92603661
So is the layout almost done/

Reading through Essence, and it says the following:
>Create a new minor Intimacy for the character based on what you’ve made her believe or feel. This could be anything from a new belief, a strong emotion, a fear of something (or someone), or even a new person she’s decided she cares about. The newly instilled Intimacy must be attached to one of the target’s Virtues. If you don’t know the character’s Virtues, then they decide which one the Intimacy is tied to. You may only instill a single Intimacy per social influence action.

What if they just don't have a Virtue that matches the intimacy I want to instill, and I'm not using any charms? Do they just attach the new intimacy to an unrelated virtue, or do they get to reject the intimacy?

>>92604390
Oh. Yes. That's all true.
That's why the battlegroups are all mooks. They are initiative drains, which is why I use them in moderation to reduce the amount of available initiative in a battle. They can easily stack dice very high, which is why I don't use them as major enemies. Might is indeed boring, so I often give special battlegroups a charm or two that means they take special actions instead.
Which means none of those issues pop up. Since they're just mooks that get killed and act as annoyances while alive.

>>92604756
>which is why I use them in moderation to reduce the amount of available initiative in a battle
The problem with this is that battles take longer by them existing. If you're taking initiative and flushing it down the toilet it benefits no one and drags a fight on longer. There's no enemy ready to open a can of whoop ass on you, just a faceless blob.

It also heavily penalizes those who fail a litmus stat test, far more than any other opponent in the game. At least with a demonic minion you can bash and get the initiative back, eat a decisive then attempt to initiative shift them for assloads of init and more. With battle groups you hope you're the one who can crash them so you can get the initiative shift.

>They can easily stack dice very high, which is why I don't use them as major enemies.
The problem is that it takes only a single roll outside the upper end the bell curve to make a battle a done deal for you or horribly screwed for PC's

>Which means none of those issues pop up.
It doesn't stop them from existing in the first place

Uoooooh I want to be a heretical dynast whose sole heresy is "enslaving and fucking Lunars I've captured on Wyld Hunts is Immaculate, actually"