If no one else done it already/GROG/ Pastebin:https://pastebin.com/nnNqqFLn
How do you treat having two pistols in Rogue Trader?Just two close combat attacks or can you make two shooting attacks? Because having two attacks in close combat kind of sucks if you're not high weapon skill, due to all the negatives.
>>93077588What you lot are finishing painting this weekend? (I didn't do anything warhammer related but fun to ask)
>>93077588Bump
>>93080333I doubt I'll be finishing anything but I'm making gradual slow progress on a bunch of models for mordheim, and have a chaos troll and a rogue trader landspeeder both basecoated as well in the back.
>>93080333I've made some good progress on my lead pile for my RT demo scenario set. But nothing is finished yet. I'll hopefully have both forces done by this weekend and can move onto some terrain to battle over. I'm keen to get stuck in and playing, I've been reading over my copy of RT and there's a lot that I like about it. Games Master driven wargaming has been pretty fun for me, and I hope people around my local will like to play, and have fun with, my scenarios as I do writing them.
>>93078430It's both. You can shoot with both pistols at once without penalty, and then in close combat you apply the relevant modifiers for right and left hands. this is a particularly deadly combo with the jump packs, as they allow you to shoot while you're in the air on your way to the target, then also fight as though you charged, thus gaining the relevant modifier and somewhat mitigating the negatives of fighting with a weapon in each hand (provided your jump-packers don't deviate from the point of impact and miss their charge completely. They do still get to shoot if this happens though)
>>93080333Oh man, I wish I could've started painting at all. I need more smaller projects, somehow I manage to pile all painting in huge batches
Thinking of trying to put together a physical collection of old white dwarf issues. Are they particularly hard/expensive to get hold of? Thinking of the old/middlehammer era mostly. Not that worried about having the cardboard bits from the '90s, can always get those printed out from the pdf versions and stuck onto sturdy materials.
As a change to collecting miniatures really, there's still something special about holding one of those old magazines in person, getting to see those pictures properly rather than in dubious quality scans on a screen.
Fun battle this one.
>>93094064
>>93096938Never seen this one before, very nice paintjob
>>93097328They're from http://nico-realmsofchaos.blogspot.com/He has a whole army of RT/RoC-era world eaters
Found out a local hobby shop ran by a boomer still has some 3rd Codexes on sale left. Just bagged this one. Guy still has the DHunters, WHunters, Deldar revised and Blood Angels (four of them for some reason) left.
>>930976523rd and 4th edition codexes tend to be quite cheap on ebay.In English anyway, not sure about other languages.
>>93097729Same in spanish, but felt like supporting the local business. It's not a GW shop anyways, what it has left of 40K are old kits that didn't sell.
>>93097775>felt like supporting the local business.Fair enough, always a good reason
>>93097652That is kinda neat
This might be more of a middlehammer question but I'm sure you guys can help me anyway. I've recently had a hankering to make an old school style Armageddon Steel Legion force (1500-2000pts or so) but I can't decide on an edition to go back to, 3rd edition seems like the furthest I'd want to go back but I've realised that 3rd is a guess range edition and coming from fantasy that's a bit of a turn off, What do people think of 6th edition? Maybe 4th is the way to go? I hear people like that one, any advice appreciated cheers.
>>93106474>I've realised that 3rd is a guess range edition and coming from fantasy that's a bit of a turn offThe only guess range weapon guard gets in 3rd is mortars, so if you don't like it you can just not take those.Also imo the 3.5ed IG codex is the most fun one. You could also use codex armageddon with the 3rd ed IG codex, but I think the 3.5 book makes that mostly obsolete.
>>93106535>The only guess range weapon guard gets in 3rd is mortarsI had a quick look at the 3rd ed rule book and it looks like you pick a target and then measure to see if your unit is in range no?
>>93106624Mortars are a barrage weapon and follow the rules on page 58. You can tell because their range is given as G48"
>>93106654There's an entire section called "check range" on page 47, surely you have to guess if your unit is within range of its target and then check?
>>93106679If you mean that you can't pre-measure shooting distances then yeah, that's 3rd. I don't think any edition of 40k I ever played explicitly allowed pre-measuring though I stopped around the start of 6th.
>>93106700>If you mean that you can't pre-measure shooting distances then yeah, that's 3rd.Yeah like I said it's a bit of a turn off personally, is 6th bad then?
>>93106712I don't really know, I stopped playing around 6th mostly for life reasons rather than anything to do with the game itself.
>>93106679While pre-measuring distances was technically not allowed in earlier editions, it was a pretty common house rule to just let people do it.You used to get stupid shit like people memorising the length of their forearms then sneakily leaning on the table to cheese the measuring stuff and it was just easier to allow you to measure whenever you wanted.
>>93106807Also guess range for mortars is kinda dumb anyway since even if you guess the exact right distance, you still have to roll for scattering.
>>93106535>but I think the 3.5 book makes that mostly obsolete.Is there a way to run all mechanized with the 3.5 book?
>>93109008Oh wait yeah with regimental doctrines
Given how much the fandom wanks the salamanders, I'm surprised this special rule from codex armageddon doesn't get brought up more often.
Writing a mechanised IG force sure is something, this 2k army is 1 HQ, 2 Troops and 1 Heavy Support
>>93111065how many squads per platoon is that? you can leave a decent amount of room for fast attack/elites/heavy support if you take the bare minimum 1+2 for both of the compulsory platoons.
>>93110810What the hell, thats just blatantly unfair, do opponent really get one turn less in that case?
>>93112646Ah nevermind, my amazing reading comprehension shines again
>>93077588I have a copy of rogue trader, whats the best way to learn the ruleset? i have got a little brother i want to learn with.
>>93112736Maybe read the rulebook and watch some battle report to get general idea and not use every possible rule for first couple games, to keep things simple and easy.
>>93077588Grognards, I want to make more battle scenarios, in the vein of old-school stuff like "Tragedy of McDeath" of "Bloodbath at Orc's Drift". Sort of like an adventure module in old-school D&D.What are the things I must pay attention to? What would improve that format? Or is it fine as it is? Any tips would be appreciated.
>>93113680For any particular edition? Because I feel like the biggest fucker when it comes to that stuff is going to be avoiding big curveballs from magic, and that changes a lot with editions.You'll probably have to dig into the old blogosphere for other example scenarios for oldhammer games to try and get more modern takes, there's not exactly a lot of published material as far as I can find.From experience with scenario design, try and keep things short and to the point when it comes to everything. Not too much fluff waffle, Not too many jokes, not too complex a battle setup or objective conditions. Don't over complicate any aspect, even if you do have a GM there to deal with it. Have at least a couple of 'cool moments' you can throw in (but don't over-script, just a couple) from completing mid-mission objectives, especially when running unbalanced games you will need those to give the weaker side a 'if we do this then we have a chance!' motivator to stop that player from being too passive (hopefully, no amounts of carrots on strings or frequent jabbings with sharp objects can ever stop your players from being retarded/forgetting their briefing even with frequent reminders).
>>93112482I've got 9 chimera total, 2 minimum size infantry platoons, and a command platoon with a couple of heavy weapon squads, which means that even bone stock I'm spending at least 720pts on Chimera. Are Chimera good? They have a versatile arsenal of weapons with Imperial Armour and the Hunter-killer missile gives them some AT power but I'm concerned that they'll struggle if they come up against anything reasonably strong.
>>93113680>Grognards,don't ask here, nothing but newfagsI also didn't read your post
>>93116261the question shouldn't be 'are Chimera good?', it should be 'are chimera cool and thematic?', and yes, they are.
>>93110810Mostly because the rest is underwhelming and, frankly, quite boring. You're basically playing Marines but slower. That said, you can still maneuver around that with house rules.Besides, modern Salamander wank mostly comes from Nuhammer just turning them into group hug shit.
>>93116921I know Chimera are cool and thematic, but I don't want to lose every game I play, although really since I've committed to the theme I'm more asking for tips on how I should run Chimera's, both in lists and in game
>>93116261One thing that makes a pretty big difference for mechguard lists is that in 3rd edition Chimeras can be scoring units, but in 4th edition they can't. This doesn't make mech guard unviable in 4th but it does make them a bit harder to play.The Chimera itself is a pretty ok battle bus, it actually has better frontal armour than a Rhino and can provide a bit of fire support like a Razorback while costing less and carrying more dudes. The extra armour upgrade is probably worth it as it's basically a 5 point version of Eldar spirit stones. I'm also not sure if it combos with Track Guards but if it does that would make them quite tough.
>>93118591Oh I also forgot to mention smoke launchers: 3 points for a pretty nice boost to survivability if used at the right time.
>>93118591Unfortunately those upgrades don't stack but I've got them on the more important Chimera's >>93118604Yeah I've got a few smoke launchers too
>>93118420>>93118618If you end up not liking Chimeras in 3rd/4th I seem to remember they got a boost in 5th edition. IIRC the core rules made vehicles a bit less squishy and they also got cheaper and got smoke launchers for free.
>>93118420I run valhallans in 3.5 ed games and while my force is not as mechanized as yours, I always run 2 chimeras and their mobility is great to have as either a distraction or flank attack. most games my main line foot sloggers run up the center while chimeras and hellhounds harass the sides/annoying side angles. They can feel pretty fragile some games but that is kind of how all vehicles feel pre-5th imo.
Does the second 3rd ED IG Codex override the first or do I need to have both to play the faction?On that note, why do IG and CSM get two codices anyways?
>>93120816Yes, the 2nd guard codex overwrites the first. As for why they did it, I don't know for sure but I assume it was because the edition had been going for long enough for other factions' codex creep to overpower the original guard book
>>93120854So the regiment system replaces the leadership mechanics from the first book, huh? Yeah, that's a big improvement.
>>93120871yeah, I like the 2nd codex better as well, but sometimes I will run the original just for fun. The difference isn't too noticeable
>>931067126th introduce to regular games almost everything bad that 7th had and was kept in later editions.Flying things before 6th where just hover tanks with extra rules.6th gave us stuff like Taudar, psychic phases, first formation like things, super heavies and flyers in regular games.
Current update on my store's 3e Armageddon campaign: The Imperials are losing incredibly badly. We've had 2 recorded victories out of around 12 games; and while everyone is having fun, the grogs making up most of the opposing team definitely makes it harder for the 10e players to understand how to play with finesse. I have chosen to put away my Tsons for now (we have one more chaos player to take my place anyway) and I will enter the fray with my Mantis Warriors. Pic is from my latest game against DAbro.
>>93123155>the grogs making up most of the opposing team definitely makes it harder for the 10e players to understand how to play with finesseNothing too wrong with that IMO. Newbies will always be worse than vets, they'll learn.
Were there any more of these collector guides back in the day? Been flipping through picrel just mirin the minis
>>93129130YeahChaosEldar and Dark EldarOrksTau and Necron
>>93129130>>93129597There were fantasy ones tooAt least:> Bretonnia> Chaos> Dwarfs> Orcs & Goblins> Monsters & Mercenaries> UndeadThere might be others, these are just the ones I happen to have pdfs of for some reason
I've seen Dark Eldar warriors described as pretty good basic infantry by 3rd/4th edition standards but looking at the profile I don't really see it.People say they're both fast and shooty but given that splinter rifles are S3 rapid fire on a squad that wants to basically always be on the move, they seem strictly worse than vanilla eldar guardians for the same cost.Do you have to tool them up with splinter cannons and/or special weapons to make them actually good? What about sticking them in a raider and doing drive-bys?
>>93120816I can't remember about the 3rd chaos codex but it's pretty stark between the two guard ones because the second came out after plastic cadians, so it's a pretty big model line launch.>>931314222 dark lances a squad sounds pretty good to me, in an edition where it's sometimes hard to minmax heavy weapons.
>>93106807Personally I always thought that the easiest solution to that kind of behaviour was a thorough application of the Dreadsock and a quick banning. The fact is that some people never liked it and would seize on any excuse to justify houseruling it away, but if someone was shit at any other aspect of the ruleset and demanded it be houseruled away so they wouldn't have to get better they'd be considered a goober of the highest calibre and mocked relentlessly, so I never understood why people were so accommodating of premeasurers.And no, I was never particularly good at it myself, but I did put in effort and I did improve over time, like anyone can.
>>93131422They were dirt cheap, ha d an equally cheap high-speed transport option, and could get dark lances by the bushel-full. I used them all the time.
>>93132481>You estimated poorly, so now your models don't get to shoot at allIt's a shitty gotcha based on a skill unrelated to tactical decision making. Almost on par with the moustache bollocks from the initial release of Age of SigmarIt disproportionately disadvantages new players.It can be assumed that two sufficiently competent players would never make mistakes with range, such that removing rules against pre-measuring has no effect on the game.There is very little justification for disallowing pre-measuring in the first place, outside of guess range artillery which at least is an intuitive and fluffy way of representing indirect fire.
>>93132481>so I never understood why people were so accommodating of premeasurers.From a game design perspective it's quite simple; weaponskill comparisons, BS rolling to hit, strength/toughness comparisons, initiative or leadership checks even the psyker card game; these are all in-game, based on the units themselves and their abilities. Guess range is purely on the player and their ability to judge distance. It's an anomaly, an out-of-game ability, where it's not the characters on the table or random chance of dice making the final determination (discounting scattering effects here since they're not always in play with guess range stuff). It's the player needs to be good at doing the thing in order for the soldiers on the table to be good enough to do the thing.Which is a choice you can make as a game designer but you should probably start asking why that's the case for certain aspects of the game. Like why does the player need to be able to dial in a mortar's range but not say, elevation on any other type of gun's shooting, since practically everything that isn't an energy people has to shoot in some kind of arc after all, why single out certain weapons? And so on.
>Like the old Stormtrooper models>Want a Melta Stormtrooper>It's got the non masked headOh well guess I'll go with the grenade launcher and Plasma gun, I really like metal models but I wish I didn't have autism
>>93136918man those old stormtroopers were so cool, much better than kasrkin IMO, although that might be because I was never huge on cadians
>>93136918Buy recast and do headswap?
>>93137049The resin recaster I normally use doesn't have them, I was going to get them from a metal recaster
how do you guys do it? I have been looking at 3rd ed for a while and love what I see, but all of the people I have tried to bring it up to just brush it off and go back to 10th. And, having fought most of these players before, I get the feeling they are the type to figure out a way to waac cheese no matter the edition. what can I do?
>>93137011The worst problem with Cadians is how much they're forced by GW. I can understand basic Flak armor being a standard among most Guard regiments and thus using the Cadian kit doesn't matter, but troops like Kasrkin are Cadian-exclusive, it's so retarded having them replace Stormtroopers.Also, Cadians were a lot better when they were WW2 Americans themed. Gave them so much more personality.
>>93137011Insane that Tempestus Scions were supposed to be the remake of them, what a dropped ball
>>93137112Well, as with everything it all really comes down to getting lucky with your local community. In my case the 40K players in town are all actual grogs that played Gorkamorka and 3rd, and highly dislike modern Warhammer (they do find Kill Team decent though). Only me and my buddy are newfags that started in 9th, which was kinda decent but we played the very tail end of it and then we went to 10th, played a few games of it and got bored of the overly simplistic and curated-for-compfags rules. The grogs offered to teach us 3rd and see if we liked it, and it was very cool. We're now also planning on trying Necromunda and revisiting Gorkamorka.I guess if you're a charismatic dude who knows how to properly set up cool games you could convince some people to from a community too, but I'm a sperg so I wouldn't know.
>>93137400Which is a shame because whenever I look at them I can see some good ideas there. I can see how they could've been good, but goddamn that medieval knight armor completely craps all over itself.I do really like the berets though, good kitbashing material.
>>93137436must be nice, my lgs is a newer store that is full of newfags who quite literally have never played any wargame that is not 9th/10th. There is a single oldhead who claims to have been playing since 2nd but he rarely plays and vehemently refuses to try older editions. I guess I got unlucky.
>>93137491I have to admit my situation is an unusual one. Tthe fact that we live in a very small rural town with no lgs, but situated near the province creates this situation where we can get models and materials very easily but there's also no shopkeeper or greater community pushing for the new hotness.
>>93136918>>93137400>>93137478Something about the Inq. troops just clicks where Scions don't. Is it the weird mask? The color scheme?
>>93138047The 2nd version Stormtroopers were designed in a way that they're clearly still sci-fi troopers. Much nicer than the original just plain commando knockoffs, they're special troopers that make sense in a 40k way, that fit the aesthetic of the Guard of that era. Chunky but looking like they're armoured in a way to retain mobility (unlike the scions). Tooled up but nothing extraneous that isn't gear so no fancy trim and decorations. Clearly inspiration was taken from sources like SWAT team gear and the SAS as seen in the Iranian embassy incident rather than more WW2 sources like with the older stormtroopers, less sneaky paratrooper types more break in and break shit types.But they're also from an era of sculptors that knew what they were doing/were not so fucked by the marketing department so they could follow the classic doctrine of miniatures making which is a huge part of what makes old models appealing still: You can tell exactly what they are, what their purpose is (and in this case, how they're different to regular guardsmen) at a glance, and it's far more than that they just have some ugly armour and random shite strapped to them.The only thing that'd make them better is a few more poses in keeping with the theme. If someone has recreated them for 3d printing or has a knock-off version out there otherwise I'd like to know.
>>93123155Care to recap the story so far for people who didnt catch it?
>>93138289>>93136918Yo, bad robot miniatures. The Irdoni special forces models. if you buy the full squad you have the option to choose if the heads have the full masks or not.https://madrobotminiatures.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=9_19&products_id=635
>>93138289how do you get that cool glowing effect on the eye lens on the mask?
>>93138948That's just the classic gemstone effect, 'eavy metal articles explained it a bunch of times over the years but it's always the same thing; high contrast, dark bit one end, light bit the other, tiny white dot somewhere. And if you're ever painting pretty any much elf/eldar you absolutely will get good at them eventually. emphasised on that model a bit more because there's a strong highlight on the armour/mask edges around it (but the painter has been smart that even though it's bits of black, the highlight on the different components are different to indicate different materials. Just a neat little simple detail there).
>>93138289Warpedfactory on etsy sells 3d prints of them. They look nice, ordered couple sets from him.
>>93138289Davik Designs did "Stormguard" that are reasonably faithful versions of the original, and has the benefit of having done HWTs and some command/specialist minis - though everything is monopose and he hadn't really gotten the hang of sculpting clothing yet when he made them - but if you're going to get them grab them from telegram because if you're going to be a faggot who ruins your Steel Legion remakes by avoiding their iconic look because you "don't want to encourage nazi hobbyists by using nazi inspired equipment designs", you don't deserve to be paid.I like KarnageKing's Imperial Stormtroopers more. It takes a small liberty with the design by adding kneepads but I think they work, and it's got less options, but it's also modular and has more modern proportions(which I get around these parts might be taken as a disadvantage by some, but personally I never needed my models to be bobbleheads to enjoy classic editions and aesthetics, so if you're the same way they might be for you). They're also cheaper.
>>93137088I'd be able to do a 3d kitbash of it if you're interested?
How do the 3rd ed codex cityfight rules play? worth picking up a copy? it sounds really cool in theory and I have been wanting to make some city terrain.
>>93143724I haven't played using the cityfight rules (only cities of death) but the fluff, scenarios, and terrain tips in that book are pretty nice.That being said, looking at ebay it seems like copies are going for about £30, which is WAY more than normal for 3rd ed books. So I'd probably just stick with a pdf
